Focus 580; Loves Executioner: and Other Tales of Psychotherapy

Each of them very different yet all seem to be struggling with the same issues. A set of issues that confront all of us. Issues such as fear of loss and death loneliness the search for meaning in our lives and the book talks about how both his patients and Doctor Yalom himself changed and to grew as a result of their interaction. And he suggests that perhaps by coming to understand these people and their struggles maybe we will understand ourselves a little bit better. He writes about it like this in the introduction to his book. He says though these tales of psychotherapy abound with the words patient and therapist do not be misled by such terms. These are every man every woman stories patient hoodies ubiquitous the assumption of the label is largely arbitrary and often depended more on cultural educational and economic factors than on the severity of path ology. Since therapy with no less than patients must confront these givens of existence. The professional posture of disinterested objectivity so necessary to scientific method is inappropriate. He

says we psychotherapists simply cannot cluck with sympathy and exhort patients to struggle resolutely with their problems. We cannot say to them you and your problems. Instead we must speak of us and our problems because our life our existence will always be riveted to death. Love to Loss Freedom to fear and growth to separation. He says we are all of us in this together. The book has recently come out it's published by Basic Books and he's speaking with us this morning by telephone as we talk with him perhaps you will have some questions. Our telephone number here is 3 3 3 9 4 5 5. Well also have a toll free line. And that is good anywhere that you may hear us. That number is 800 2 2 2 9 4 5 5 3 3 3 WRAL. And 800 to 2 2 w I'll just remember those numbers are different. And at any point here in our conversation if you'd like to join in please do pick up the telephone and call the doctor Yalom.

Yes I'm here. Thank you very much for being with us today we appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. The book as I say it presents the stories of ten individuals and I'm sure that we won't we wouldn't have enough time to talk about all of them perhaps we can talk about some. And and also I have to recognize that the stories that you present in your book are also there. They seem to be pared down to the essentials obviously. They were the result of months of conversations with people and we're going to be presenting even more pared down stories. Still it seems to me that runs the risk of making it all sound too easy. I think that's very true. But of course that's true of any literary adventure you simply find the story of the individual's life and you don't as you know spend a lot of time talking about how did you get stressed that ordering breakfast. But I've taken months of therapy and looked for the story and the therapy and the frame added the part I've left and I think a lot of the hard work on it

beginning that I wanted other. Just let me have you talk about that for a moment did you can. Did you worry when you were writing these. Writing the stories that it would present an image of therapy that that would make it look too easy that the struggle maybe didn't come across as it should have. Well Gary there are some that are that I deliberately throw myself into the struggle so that I would try to pick through that issue. For example the very first patient they titled story called Love executioner. You know the story shortly after their quote the fat lady along with the first one. The story of a woman who was so totally engrossed at some point out that the love affair that she had had a sick of the two the people in her

life and even when she did something that she had Thank you very. Circumstantial to people I can pick one big HB So the therapy was extremely frustrating and irritating in the end of the story largely was about that. And so also for the story of the fat lady one of the aspects of that story was a woman who poured me a great deal and so I tried to write the story around what was brought to me to the therapist and why that should have thanked the considered data because of the fact that the patient is you the chances are one thing that we've learned psychotherapy is that the same thing is true for other people like others to report for fire. So we need to keep it very. Well perhaps we can talk a little bit more about these these two individuals the woman whose story is the forms that the title from from which you take the

title love's executioner. This was a woman of 70 I believe she came to you she was she was very unhappy she had a lot of problems with depression. She had attempted suicide. She had eight years before had had a brief affair with in fact another therapist although at the time of the affair he was not treating her. But that was how she had met him. That's right. And she had had this affair eight years before and he very abruptly had broken it off and she had she said that he was making her miserable. She thought about him constantly all this time. She didn't understand why he had put it. It brought it such an abrupt conclusion and was very concerned with knowing with understanding that but even more with knowing what she said was with knowing how he felt about her she she seemed to really want to know that he still cared. And while she.

Recognize that there was very little chance that they would reestablish this relationship. She was holding onto it. I think she said one percent she said well maybe there's a just a 1 percent chance that their relationship could be resumed and it seemed that the rest of her life was so unhappy and that this she said was the only time in her life that she had any happiness that she so she was desperately clinging to the possibility however slim that she could have that happiness again. And when she came to you she was she was in great distress and said to you you're the last resort and talked quite a bit about it and during the time that you talked with her she continued to to talk about committing suicide. That's a striking aspect of that kind of story through it. She should be living her life. Years ago she put it the president was really to live and experience

real time for her. And there's something really tragic about them giving up her life for this thing happened. Oh you know what kind of is that anyway. And what kind of relationship is it when you have or you think what to do the Perth that'd be they could just think of it I have a brief conversation with one year only that he thought well of her that she could be all right. There's something very odd about that it's sort of giving up your whole freedom your hope and work to someone else as though he's played anything more than just just want to be human. Be who you know might even a bit dead by that time. Or do I certainly think of her. So I felt a strange kind of what it was but it was not how to read a little counterfeit variant of love and that was why I felt that my first pan-African

therapy with the sun offline so that she could have something to relate to me with something better. That's about right but what appears to be the executioner and the papal book and I think you one one can sense your frustration in dealing with her because you continue to try to have her confront the reality of the situation and the fact that she hasn't talked to this person in eight years. It's in you you seem to keep coming back to that and yet she doesn't want to let go of the one percent. That's right the stance that somehow they can withstand but it's hard to know whether our now her life is so empty because of the fact that entirely the memory whether in fact you devote your life that way you know to play together. Hammock interaction.

You made an agreement with with her to continue the therapy for six months and as you were getting near the end and feeling that you weren't getting anywhere you thought perhaps the thing to do would be to get this other person this young man to meet with the two of you for them to have to have a meeting and to talk about what had happened between him and the aftermath. Was that why was that a difficult thing to do to get to the point where you decided that that was the thing to do a direct kind of confrontation. But everything you failed at some point in there right after the question and I am quoting from Perth. If there are people for you. Is there something that other person much power within the pink could do or say what completely. You put your construct the perfect

scenario in which you would be let go. Did you imagine me role played for me to match what you thought he would say and at that point I got the notion well everything out. Try that. I'll try to bring him to therapy. We'll see whether or not perhaps he's like that. In the weeks for the few weeks left I decided that I would I try this I would try anything therapy if I think that it's going to be helpful to the patient that they were feeling rather desperate so we kept him and that is a matter of fact he was very willing to come and although he had not been willing to answer close for several years because he could be to kind of really see with his playfulness or go on a cold kind of recording on tape they could see letting him know every time he changed. Therapist Coley birthdays.

So he too wanted to be heard. So they came and we had a very dramatic three way three way meeting. But that's a very. Back to me. Well I don't want to give away too much but I something that I wonder about as this story is it seems to have come to a conclusion that is rather run satisfactory. It seems that one really wonders although it seems that she was improved one really wonders how much change there was. And I get the sense on your side that perhaps you weren't really very satisfied with the conclusion either because while she perhaps she she managed to let go of her sat her obsession in large part which she didn't completely. I mean she ends up still having some relationship with with this man

and perhaps that's not perhaps as nothing wrong with that. And yet it seems that she says she still in some fashion was holding on to her 1 percent. Yeah you know I was very dissatisfied with the outcome. I had a lot of respect for her I think I wanted her to make it. After the three way meeting which had been a very horrible but also for which he learned something about that affair striking things about that affair. She heard her for momentarily exploded and she came in the next week and very depressed. You get an idea of what the what the Sabbat said that it was like you to know you've been living in a magic theater and so they'd come in and everything is great and we could see

that they realized that he really was yours though he may have been the one time I could sit with a group of people through life. So the obsession with that kind of majorly feel quite different from what it was and what happened with but hey it might sort of rattling rattling things up as much like the pace of change what I did with the end of three and the two pill packet that got them back together. She continued to give him the power so I would say she was very wicked and that it was kind of sick irony of the first part of the research program and the research is kind of like a pair of research to look at very superficial things how people with theory and pressed are there to scale. And she turned out to be a real writer locked into the book. Yeah but you really could be just what

you in your work with people obviously you get to know them quite well and and get to care about them. And how would you do with with the feelings that come from an satisfactory conclusion like this where you perhaps you feel that. It didn't turn out the way that you might have hoped. Well yeah. What would one thing I get that I have to look for that kind of pain and I also have to take a look at what my ambitions were in the first place and the story I accused myself I think to prove it but I felt that I could think the predators could do if one looked back upon my bikini with her kid at 20 years. I think there are a lot of the therapists I agree with Grant you know about that I think I had a different kind of therapy. I could do something that was our experience.

It worked with what you know one third to look back over the case one point but do you think that the therapist you know we want to do that we took a very disciplined both therapist have a good group of people to get together. But then the formal group would be once every couple weeks and one of the takes turns the special cases they use. We can discuss very disappointing cases to find out what went wrong what do we learn from this that we can do it differently even though there were only disappointment. OK OK. Our guest this morning is Dr. Irvin Yalom he is a professor of psychiatry at Stanford University School of Medicine. We're talking about some of the stories in his book love's executioner and other tales of psychotherapy. We have a caller someone who's been waiting patiently for a bit here what we have been take other questions comments. The local number is 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 and the toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. Here's our first caller on our toll free line.

Good morning David another interesting program I would just like to make a comment and then get a question I've got to get off. Sure. What you're saying seemed very very universal to me. Why Albany and local church are way off. It brought to mind a book that I read a couple of years ago entitled How to Break your obsession to a person or addiction to a person you know or to help. I wonder if your guest had heard this and what do you think help parents. I can't remember too many I think he was getting on it when I was at the old relationship. Ah get off the line og. I'm thinking thank you. OK thanks for going. Well I'll bet there are a lot of self-help books about how to break a love addiction. And I think some of them contain some behavioral methods that are important in other words they deal with the actual. And I use some of these some of these approaches to there are

some of them are pretty simplistic you know you say one of the ways a behaviorist behavioral therapist work with obsessions Well you catch yourself obsessing about something that you you know stop at the top you. Hopefully you're looking at this time as a way of breaking up the process. You start to keep track of exactly how many times a day you thinking about this person. Are you even give yourself time to think about the person or other things you begin to try to imagine this person that you lived sort of pork but now no situation. Doing something that may be somewhat less than less dignified or even a batch of person diapers you know it's a turnover so try to bring it home to you. The quality of your profession. So I think the actual method for breaking the profession sometimes for some people can't be helpful. You know that you bring it up for doctors sometimes a problem. And

really learning and educating yourself about your keeper wishes through the board breaking them if you want to protect the good things. Victory week. I hope that gets at the question of the caller and of course other people who'd like to call in are welcome to go on to do that. Let's talk a little bit about the woman in the chapter that you titled fat lady. This woman this is Betty we're going to give her the name Betty. She came to you and she was very heavy and she had was apparently all was overweight but became obese when she was in her late adolescence and since she was 21 she had weighed somewhere between 200 and 250 pounds. She was very unhappy she had no friends she had no social life. She realized there her eating was out of control she'd been warned by a physician that it was endangering her health and she came to you for help. And at first you and you you admit very

honestly at first you had a problem with her because of her size. Yes. It's rated that that is the rather shocking beginning the story I know and I said to the whole lot of readers and a few reviewers as well I think the Chicago Tribune started their review with that sort of blind saying you know these are extreme stories but flown therapist because of this kind of prejudice but of course you know I know I exaggerated a little bit for the for the dramatic effect but I did start to think that I did have a prejudice against that we have but there are people who at times have never got life skills. Let me tell but I when I first started to see Betty and I presented all kinds of problems for me you know for one thing the problem is that the way that any you know that I think you know the way that I think they're very honest I think really. Chip a person so when you really hear the ESC yourself well how can you form

a relationship with the kid on a chain you when you've got no negative feelings about the way they look. So that was the basic theme of the story. Know how one solves that but thank you. That particular fired up their perceptive work with another way to you know how does a person who grew up with an alcoholic parent. Do you know what the person who has a drinking problem you know the kind of negative feeling attached to them. So we all have we all have issues that we have to deal with with the same threat of irrational feeling there with the patient. So that was the first thrust of the story you know I kind of work through them and get people to watch. How I can help recognize you know struggling likable. And that which you are

what I think the what makes this story so fascinating is that and I think it's the case in with some of the other stories that you tell too that people came to you with one set of problems. And what what was really what was really going on was perhaps something else that was buried at a much deeper level and that once you started to delve into that into the problems that were nearer to the surface then it became obvious that they were tied or rooted in some ground that was much deeper and that in her case. That her father had died had died of cancer and she felt very close to him. And one of the things that happened he apparently had also been very heavy himself and that as his disease progressed he lost a lot of weight and that somehow some level of her thinking she as she she watched she had watched that and on some level she

associated losing weight with being sick and dying and that there was there was something at a very deep level in her mind blocking her ability to herself lose weight because it had this association with her father's death. And in addition it seemed that she was she was still perhaps still grieving in a way because she had been very close to her father and felt that when he was gone that she was she was alone there was no one around to protect her and that. So there was this there was this this connection of the ideas of of death and abandonment. And somehow it got connected with with the issue of size and weight. And that was that was what was at the root of all of it and once you got to that she was able to to confront her weight problem although again you know it makes it sounds very easy I mean

it was it was a real struggle for her all the way through. That's right. When we started to work you know I think really we were floored me kind of relationship. The first thing we do to get through this. But here to be very her pink boring form of trying to get you to thank you for the week you really people because you know you took you that way with me. I took. I got her permission then I could begin to call her and begin to wonder then we got into Earth then you know she had nothing to offer to the press in the Depression. And then after that we began to then approach the future of the people who lived in one way or the other almost. So many of the things we got to that led us to carry more about

the death of her father. She was a teenager in which she had never really come to terms with it and it was remarkable series of events that occurred once she started to play. I didn't want to get the same kind of control issues that so many other people are trying to force your way to help. But I would have to convince her willing to change and grow and all I did try to move up the Crow chief. Finally one day then a degree of waiting began to leave it amazing that one of the things that happen with you both ways that you learn through a series of of flashbacks and we see very vividly recalled events in our life and it was quite amazing that these events were were the events that occurred when she was that particular way. Did her life because she had lost the weight that she had lost for 10 years or so and received the wake that TC was playing when she was in high

school and once was graduating high school and get closer and closer to the weight that she was with her when her father died. At that point she really captured a lot of the feelings around her brother's death what it meant or what the law meant for the baby even more important that you could put it with her if you think that in general you know the death of a member brings you with some of your fears of your own words. And so that was were a lot of the work came about and after that he got a lot of weight. Two or three break. I think. Well I guess this morning it. Let me tell you again his doctor Irvin Yalom we're talking about his book love's executioner and other tales of psychotherapy. Once again our guest this morning is Dr. Irvin Yalom. He's a professor of psychiatry at Stanford University School of Medicine and is the author of the book love's executioner and other tales

of psychotherapy. It's published by Basic Books. We welcome your thoughts. If you'd like to talk with us 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. Dr. Yamma I wonder I mean you you touched on this a little bit ago whether some of your colleagues don't feel that you have been a little too frank in writing these stories and publishing them in in a form that is going to be accessible to to a lot of people obviously. Therapist do write up case studies of it but probably most of them are only read by other therapist. This was something that's really intended for reading by a general audience. Have you been criticized by some of your colleagues. You know I have not occurred. Fact not. But. I've read a great deal for a professional career. A

basic textbook in the field of what we call extensive psychotherapy and group psychotherapy these books but a textbook for years and this new book length executioner was to be Series luster to sales so they're mad serious tales of their bent and this is parallel to the fact that my intention was to use them to teach patients and therapist more about the process of psychotherapy. I originally was going to go about making a buck or didactic by having it after. It only story to kind of cover some of the park theoretical aspects but I thought that that seemed to be too happy to publish or focus on only that I should not do that but I still kept to the afterwards to the tenth story of support professionally afterward. But there are serious stories there bed to deal

with with deeper issues that tradition that I'm writing and thinking you know sort of approach to life through an existential kind of perspective. Sometimes these concepts are about existed in life and freedom and responsibility and meaning in life are very difficult to write about and it's surely an abstract way. At one point he somehow had power and the power of some type of literary device. People like they're in a bit deeper level and a lot of people who worked in this area come back and talk about the very last race for players like you know you that you know if you were to take these kind of issues and have found it a literary conveyance with powerful way to teach. So that's the sort of the tradition with telling the story. And as for the matter of personal revelation that I'm making their way I don't have any

concerns about that it will because I think that that's the heart of psychotherapy and I think that there needs to be an honest genuine relationship with the patient that they try to be quite open and honest with my feelings about what's going on in therapy with that with that patient and patient recognition of something. Tell him about it. I think Eric I think counter therapeutic to reality. The the two stories that we have talked about here obviously that you're here are two women who are very different who come to you with different problems and yet it seems on a very fundamental level. The problem is much the same. And it it seems to come up in many of these stories we have here first of all a woman who is obsessed with a brief love affair that she had eight years before with a younger man and doesn't want to let go of it. We have the story of a woman who

who is obese and and can't seem to control her eating. And there was a story for example where a man comes to you and he has a series of love letters that were written to him by a woman with with which he'd had an affair many years before in fact the woman had been dead for a long period of time. And the man comes to you and he says look I've got these letters and would you keep them for me because I'm very concerned that if something would happen. My wife would find him and she'd read him and be very upset. And your natural to question him as well. When was the last time you read any of these and he said well maybe it had been 15 or 20 years. And you said to him Well why don't why do you keep them. And he seemed to feel it was almost that was like a foolish question what you're asking and why why he keeps them there. And and what it's rooted here at root of this this story seems to be what's at root of the other stories it's it's people's fears about dying

about their own mortality. And in particular about about isolation abandonment loneliness and the ways in which they're tied to that same theme. People's fears about dying and particularly fears about being alone at death and how how it is one of those things that one must do on. It's a theme that comes up again and again for you is that is that the fundamental issue that that everyone must confront and the root of a much of our problems in life is is that that's where it is. It is rooted in fears about death. Oh I think it's you know feeling fear fear fear that struck me. Struggling with human beings ever since time began that people tried to do something to

deal with their great sense of pacing at what but often in that spirit probably that the moments of the significance of our universe so that we have to deal with that we can't create immortality. Believe you have to believe something sort of ceremony to fears of death so I believe that I agree with what you're saying. I do believe that their anxiety stemming from lots of death and the more self-awareness we have about these pretty careful guards. That anxieties is the price we pay for southward so the point that we know better though the sort of inevitable that your but to answer question which you haven't quite yet but that they could be deployed. But I don't think these occur every pay should you know. I don't try to take each patient to

be sort of like that of taking any patient towards any kind of Route 1. One of the approaches and credits they could therapy to approach each patient very differently very separately without any preconceived theories or ideas I don't like you think you could die and I don't think you owe me a bag of the first sessions approaching the patient thereafter because I think it then begins to look that it was to allow the patient to experience. So for some patients some stages of their therapy. The serious play with Rose and the therapist and be prepared to see that to deal with them. Mission will be something entirely different. There are other patients on the page you can be a relationship to the person fear of it their fear of being seen by someone for being killed by fear in their own region aggression and that's the kind of animal that I might be doing with these

particular people. Yeah I have a couple callers here and I apologize to them cats have kept them waiting I'll get will get right to them on the next go first to our line number one. Hello. Good morning. You're kind of thing it would help us if you would speak up a little better. Yeah. That's good thank you. Good morning Dr. Richards. I'm a psychiatrist by the way. Hi. Intrigued by your comments there regarding diagnosis that your and your other comments regarding in that you can approach. Would you care to comment about the conflicts relative to asking board certification examinations with your ideas about diagnosis. Well that's a tough question it's a real problem. One of the problems that's going on in the field to kind of keep a specially with the three medical inflation which we are it can we teach our residents you know the

science. There are certain fixed. I know that we have to go through it and indeed there are some important diagnostic that we like especially around the major cities. Psychotic you need to have a clear logical to get a complement like a major meteor depressive illness medication may be useful but it's not easy to kind of finer distinctions that we make between a lot of personality disorders are extremely evanescent they change every few years and I have never found that 30 second therapy a lot have got concerned about that's one of the reasons why I have never participated as an examining member of the board. OK well I thank you for the call. Let's go to a second call that we have someone here on the line number two. Hello.

Hello. Yes and I heard Dr. ya'll have written under your actual name or as the nom de plume. I don't know if my actual name. This is your name. Well the thing that concerns me in had I been one of your patients and read this book. I feel that it would be easy for me to identify myself. And I'm just wondering what harm after possibly a successful diagnosis. And it seems I'm just wondering if this wouldn't carry me back to the original situation that was so distressing me and make me wonder if I had been you know. Well but both. Stay with us for two. But first of all I need to tell you that if you had been one of the people that I wrote about that I would have talked to about this is pretty blank and it would have read the story editor early

for me and given me permission to do better to check the bag check the disguise there to see whether that was an adequate strategy in fact to be your patient. Use historian Had you any objection I wouldn't use it so that you have to know it first every patient read every single word of his or her story and felt that it was something that they would give me permission to do because they felt that it would be useful to them to the profession to other people who were dealing with the kinds of problems they were due. But given that tell me why it would take you back to your original illness if you were to see this. Well I don't know I've never been in an analysis but I have read quite a bit about it and it just seems that. Well I did think that I would feel used and this help that I got from you was maybe a superficial thing that was was done in order to give you something to write

about. Oh I say so you thought the reason that I was really seeing you with it was in order to write it down to me you know what to make you think better. Let's say that we were meeting for a couple of years but we seem to be working well together at the end of that I had written something you two Tuna's say I wonder how you would feel up and ready. If I pick you up a lot of people are together. Maybe there's something there that others you situation could learn from it and of course that kind of thing everything extreme of course. Well very possibly under that situation I would agree and yes and it would be all right. But as an onlooker you know without that was the situation so that in a production of the book but I consulted with each person very thoroughly about the story that paired their cooperation and I think people could feel good about that

it is only one or two of the people for example the woman who threw piece one piece here. What I mind better than the people who are obese and who profited really that could be they could get letters not only from people who are obese but purposeful working with obese people that mystery. But when I did that. So you know I did not have the sense that they don't think you're raising an important issue but I could not have the sense of having violated any. The patients will but working together to realize it. I guess this question comes to my mind because I hear and read so many books and hear the Ockers interviewed and it seems like it is the wait for a professional to make some additional money and

sometimes I feel that the person being written about is not really be being treated fair but obviously you did you know. Well to quote the only way we could probably teach him shit but I feel you know that we're dealing with with with people stories full time and often have a textbook have the polies yet a page or two about a search and if I want to teach a whole course spoke with perfect I'm going to use alone. Otherwise there is no way to pass from the place to make a profit. We just have a couple of minutes left one of the things that I wanted to ask you was it. It seems that was one of the curious things about about neuroses and I don't know maybe also psychosis is that is that they can really be coping strategies. They can be in a

warped sort of a way they can be supports for people and in the process of therapy and you can see it in some of the stories we've talked about and others that we haven't. What part of what you have to do in a sense is to yank those out from under people which must must mean that there are frightening moments when the patient realizes that that has happened and you know that you have done it and perhaps YOU DO YOU EVER WANT TO YOUR say to yourself whether that or that was really helpful or whether you have whether you have pulled out a support for the person and and don't have anything to put in its place. I think your point very well taken that Rodek approach is hard. Support person for a very long time in effect but with a pick through it first time but the issue is that the person

pays too high a price for their support and so the person becomes extremely crippled it waited like a kind of general run and or parents say that the kind of phobia where he is talking to other people and so that he begins to hate people. That's one of the anxiety talking to people or oh you know that hope is working but I really believe you think sanity at the same time. The price he pays for it is so heavy that he doesn't get a chance to live any kind of the life at all and so you have to begin to offer at that pace. You know that's rhetoric. Perth begin to learn what it is like to relate to their appeal to relate to another person to realize that there's people that will cop to begin with you. And so that gratitude when

it gets to stay at that period there is. Kind of automatic catastrophe being different criteria for the poll. We we're just about out of time my apologies to a caller I'm not going to be able to take just one final question I'd like to have you talk a little bit about how and that is how the how the process of doing the therapy has changed it has changed you. Oh I think they're opposed to a great deal. Throughout their careers doing therapy in fact I think therapist what should I say I think that we're continuously therapy you know and I think the key here is how we respond to that person. And I also think there should be at professional therapy for the point time and urge. Right to seek professional therapy become viable professional tool. But we've got

to look at that reaction. The patient is coming from their own sort of erotic feeling. Our reaction to the patient is actually parent the patient is doing the therapy. Any of your great you both kind of people go through different stink like Psycho baby to work on different kinds of tea. So maybe that purpose. But over me to go back there you think well we will have to leave it at that we obviously just told a few of the stories in the book there are many others and I think it's quite quite fascinating I appreciate you being with us today to talk about it today. PROCEDURE. Our guest is Dr. Irvin Yalom. That's why a L O M and his book is entitled love's executioner and other tales of psychotherapy. Basic Books is the publisher.