Focus 580; Addressing the Digital Divide in East St. Louis

This morning in this hour focus we will return to a subject we've talked a bit about and it's something that is often referred to by the shorthand phrase of the digital divide. The fact that if you take a look at who it is that has computers uses computers is involved with the Internet. It tends to be more middle and upper income folks and not so much people on the lower end of the scale perhaps for obvious reasons one being that computers can be a little expensive. And you've got to pay for internet access and not everyone has that kind of money. We will be talking this morning with some folks who are involved in a program actually a program here in in our area in Champaign Urbana but also in East St. Louis to try to provide computers and internet access and some training to lower income people who otherwise wouldn't be able to do that. We have three guests here with us in the studio. MARTIN Well ski and Paul Adams from Prairie met which is the community computing network here in Champagne Urbana that has its home in the library school and also Marquis George. He is professor of

Urban and Regional Planning and is also the interim director of the East St. Louis action research project. And as we talk you're certainly welcome to give us a call if you have questions or comments or we'd like to participate in the show anyway. Three three three. Wy L.L. or 9 4 5 5 and toll free 800. Two two two. Well thank you all very much. Thanks for vets for everything. Just maybe for anybody who doesn't know what prairie net is why don't we just talk about that for a moment. What is Prairie now all about. As you mentioned Kiran it's a community computer network. We were founded at the graduate school library information science back in 93. We served as one of the first ISP Internet service providers in this community and since 93 We've extended the types of services that we make available to the community. We host websites have Bolton boards email. We also provide training we work

very closely with the Urban League and other groups in the community to provide training for low income individuals and. When we get donations we recycle those computers and get them out to the community. We also provide technical assistance for organizations that would like to have a web presence or would like to purchase computers to help with their own activities. We're involved with that as well. OK then let me turn Professor George and have you talk a little bit about the east the west action research project that's out about. So the university has been associated with since 1987 but really it was in 1900 that it became the St. Louis action research project. And it's characterized by two rather unique approaches to dealing with communities. One is participatory action research where we work on building scholarship not separate from communities we don't treat

these displace as a lab laboratory that we go and study but rather we work with the people who are in these in the neighborhoods in the community to generate knowledge. Second aspect of it is is service learning. So we have a number of courses including the recent one in. Labor information sciences where students who work on university courses who actually are involved in community projects with the way they work with community. In exchange for the knowledge they gained from the community they deliver back some kind of a service project could be building a neighborhood. It could be rebuilding a community institution like a church. It could be installing computers in community technology centers. So we have a range of things like that so it's been there it's been in existence since 1998 in that form but we've actually had the association with recently since 1997.

And I gather then your involvement then with the praying that folks came because people that you were working with in East St. Louis said we need computers and we need machinery we need hardware we need training we need help because we think this would be a really important develop community development tool. They said that to you and then you apparently said well the pre-med folks have done this here in Champaign-Urbana. They seem to have some expertise. That's how they became involved in this. Right. Well if you go back and further that we've actually been engaged and using the Internet and Web based resources for delivering information. So that's the way we connect ourselves with the community because we are 180 miles away. Now that was you know that was a coming up here we all got interested in that. We did a lot of web based web based information delivery. At some point we realize though that we were delivering information but there was there wasn't the capacity in the community to receive the information we were sending out. And we did

try in several instances to set up a small technology center computer that's been legalized that we didn't really have the expertise to do that kind of kind of work. And that's when Paul and I met last year and then and then then the the logic of us collaborating on this was was really you know well so what sort of things have you been involved have to have you all your brain that guy's been doing there. Then he said those as we started looking at this as a possibility. Quickly B it became apparent that we were going to have to bring in a lot of resources to try to refurbish computers to build labs. A lot of what we do naturally but it does take a lot of human power to work with that especially with the donated computers we get that have to be tested and refurbished. When we were looking at this last summer it quickly became apparent that a course I teach introduction to Network Information Systems had all of the people power we

needed and we realized we could take the 30 students 40 students that were in that class use them to help us do the work. I modified the course so that their final project would be setting up four different labs within the St. Louis community. The students then we had received a donation of computers. From Table technologies up in Chicago and they had given us one hundred twenty hundred thirty computers to work with. We were going to shoot for having four labs of 10 to 15 computers or cells so we needed 60 working computers. We had the students work through the semester kind of beating up computers finding all their flaws what wasn't working. Of the hundred twenty computers we had donated we managed to get almost exactly 60 working ones out of the package. They developed the computers they took two trips out to East St. Louis the first one as Marquis was

mentioning. It's more than just doing it and dropping it off and saying There you go. This is what we came up with. We actually made the first visit. The students looked at the sites the students students sat down they spoke with the people who would be receiving it found out what sort of interest they had what they were going to be trying to do with the computers. And then the students custom tailored the computers to actually serve those needs. The second trip then was to actually deliver the computers and set them up. We have since taken a few other students out on a couple of different visits to fine tune some of what was out there to add some capabilities like internet access so the whole lab could have internet access. And we're now developing the training manuals to help the sites maintain those computers and do basic troubleshooting. And so it's gone through all of those different steps it's never a matter of just dropping it off it's always a matter of figuring out what they need designing it

to suit those needs and then training them to actually use the computers and to maintain those computers. But I see Machiavelli mention them in some of the students in semesters cause this immense really looking on a track record income independent study in which they continue that relationship with these technologies into is that they have set up I mentioned as when they were there they were not just doing technology stuff. Some of them have fixed the neighborhood but you know it's it's it's a it's a broad based collaboration I think. So students get this first of all they get a very real hands on kind of experience when you agreement and your course is being transformed in a sense by them being able to have this really well-known thing in the way you have it set up as well. The initial part on your first visit is actually a tour of East St. Louis to see an overall image of what's happening there what some of the challenges are there face so it's not a narrow focus on just technology absolutely it's a broader look. We had lunch at a soccer field that had been

transformed the first visit we were out there and watch the kids playing soccer. So there's a lot of feedback that's going on. So what sort of things the people then who are using people in a Saint Louis who are using the computers. What sort of things are they using them for. Well let me give an example of. Let me summarize what the different. We've got three faith based organizations that have set up and that are set up a technology center and a youth organization. The faith based organizations they basically deliver training to local residents that are in their local area and this could be an introduction to computers it could be slightly more advanced word processing and things like that. But it's essentially training oriented. To give an example Dr. Drew Scott Lask she gave up a job she had in the St. Louis metro area to take on to become the pastor of the

new beginning outreach ministry in East in. Centerville incentive which is next door to us and she uses the technology center that has been set up to provide training to people in the immediate vicinity. But she also hooks it up as an incentive for people to come and have help and she's actually aged in the US and I used to teach in a sing before she took this job. So the technology center has a new integral part of what she does what her outreach ministry does. Another example with her actually would be as well that she recognized a need for budgeting and having people learn how to work with finances more. So once she gets back the introductory windows training she actually then offers a second course an add on course that looks at how to use the spreadsheet capabilities of the computer to develop personal finance and software

that helps them learn how to do more effective budgeting and financing of their system and track what's going on of their household so a lot of it goes beyond So it starts with here's how to use a computer but it moves on to here's how to improve your lives using this technology. I think that all four sites are really user driven. In the case of new beginning. If there are individuals who come to Dr. Lawson and say I need I need to learn word because there's a secretarial position it's opened up and they say that I have to have it in order to apply. Then she will create that curriculum and and offer it just as in the fourth site which is not face faith based but a youth recreational facility. They want to get into the kids actually learning how to work on computers and possibly an entrepreneur relationship where they could work on computers for people out in the community and make a little bit of money.

Let me just take the opportunity to introduce our guests. For anyone who might have had tuned in in the last little bit here we have with us in studio Martin will ski Paul Adams from Prairie not the champagne Urbana community computing network. And also Farhi George who is the interim director of the East St. Louis action research project. He's also professor of Urban and Regional Planning. We're talking about some of the activities in East St. Louis that has in a sense involve both. The action research project and prairie net in setting up some computer labs there to provide people experience with computers some training internet access and so forth. And questions of course are welcome. Three three three W while all toll free 800 1:58 WLM. I'm curious about how much exposure in school there in East St. Louis young people get I mean do the schools are they also making some effort or do they do they face a also a resource kind of problem and for them it's difficult to provide them.

Yeah they do face a resource problem but the face. Kind of real prejudice over their ability to do this kind of stuff. So you know Johnson Savage Inequalities everyone's read it every looks at at the school district as being you know in the worst possible but. So they have they've been working under those resource constraints and kind of the prejudice. But within that I believe they're doing the best they can. So for instance in one of the high schools they've actually started a Cisco Academy which is that they they they they train students to work on network Cisco Networking equipment. And Paul you may be able to say more about the Cisco Academy what Cisco got MIAs but they have programs like that they have fairly well fitted out a computer lab that introduces students to robotics and software of multimedia software of various kinds. They've got people trained in that so they do have some resources.

They've they've made a beginning there. But clearly they did more resources and they need people to be supportive of what they're doing and not be very critical of what they're doing. The short periods of time that they get in the school also are a good start. But that isn't where all the consolidation happens and that isn't where they learn to start taking it beyond what just the basics they learned in a school. We were just when we were out there last weekend talking with Greg Lewis at bride of Christ. He was pointing out the difference between the youth course that he has and the senior course that he has he's teaching two different courses to reach six week long courses and one of the seniors also is now sitting in the youth course and saying why are we getting to learn all that stuff. And he's pointing out what they say learn a lot of it at school they have a lot of the basics but there's still a lot of the consolidation that happens in the middle and upper class homes that have the computers at their home.

That doesn't happen with the lower class community when they don't have access. So having that additional access at a lab really makes a difference. You know because you know if you you know if you look at our lives technology pervades it. And so it's easy for us to keep up with things and to and to be and and to use this in effective ways. But you know for many of these that the infrastructure isn't there so many of the kids while they may be exposed at school there isn't that provision of technology in their lives that really is needed for them to be able to have the skills to get them to the job market and things like that. Well that's it's interesting I guess I was merely wondering when you look at the people who are using these computer labs where they're primarily adults or whether they're also young people in this whether this works out to be an adjunct or a supplement to or somehow builds on whatever kind of exposure that they get in the classroom and in school it sounds like indeed. Yeah that is one of the things that I think. Well it sounds as if there's a lot a lot of volunteer effort going into this. The computers were donated the students worked on them there must be

some expenses. If Internet Internet access if nothing else what actually does this end up costing and how do you cover the cost. Well the bulk of the cost is is bought from you know the donation of computers in bulk of the cost of travel keeping you know putting people up then. And the St. Louis project that's what we do. I mean we fund that kind of activity because it's a service learning course. It contributes to the people of you St. Louis and so we cover those costs. I can give you an estimate of how much it costs but it's fairly significant. And we have a budget for service learning outreach and technical assistance and we use that to cover the costs. And there's also a cost for the host sites too. I mean they have to incur the costs of you know keeping the lights on and you know paying the utility bills and also the internet connection and a phone line. So they have they have some contributions to the project as well. That's actually been our last visit again when we were at Dr. Scott last new beginning

outreach program she showed it noted that she has had to cut back on the amount of training she could provide because of the increased heating bills. $700 for a last heating bill and that was with cut back services if she had tried to do all the afterschool programs that she had wanted to and had to heat the building she going to board it. So yeah there's even not the direct cost. There's the increased electrical cost we don't often think of that but a computer monitor speakers they draw about two amps. If you're running a lab of 15 computers that's 30 amps that you're drawing well that adds up in additional utility costs. So they come from a lot of different areas. But but these folks are trying to cover the cost in very innovative ways. So for instance Dr Scott Dyleski will have a I think 5 a $10 fee for doing the school. But Don Holt of computer village which is another organization working there he says just bring a

tin of canned food and that's your contribution to it so you know they have all different. They have cost many of them cover it through their operations but they have it's interesting and innovative ways of recovering some of those costs. He's making the training more meaningful to the people who are getting it. Some of the bigger challenges we're starting to face now though are when you do look at Internet access costs. The 10 15 dollars per month that you can buy Internet access would seem trivial but down there you'd have connect charges that are then added on it add to your phone bill. You also have issues of access speed when you look at phone quality. The phone quality there is not sufficient to run at 56 K let alone 33 6 in one case. We've had to down regulate down to a 1200

baud. Well you know if you start going at that rate and it starts making a significant significant difference not 100 1000 K but it makes a significant difference in the quality so you have to start looking at either paying to upgrade the phone service or find alternate methods and that some of the struggle we're going through right now as well. Have you found other organizations in East St. Louis once they see what these folks are doing stopping by and saying you know this looks pretty interesting. And other people thinking about trying to do the same thing. Yeah we've actually formed what we call the digital ESL collaborative and that's a group of about 20 or so different community based organizations local government agencies that are interested in the in the digital divide and in bridging the digital divide. So we started meeting in October of last year and we've we've put together a number of proposals for funding the collaborative itself because one of the costs actually we didn't mention is the whole

coordination and coordination of all these activities. That's a fairly significant consumer of our time. So for instance Paul and I and Cathy Klemp who is the director of our technical assistance and any St. Louis spend a large amount of our time on this and it's a it's a cost we really haven't take into account. So we're looking for funds to support this collaborative to to to have somebody administer it to provide administrative support for this. But the collaborative has actually by coming together we've become aware of maybe 17 to 20 different technology centers that have been formed independent of our efforts we do which we didn't know of. So we bring together we've really increased awareness not only of our efforts but increased our awareness of what other people are doing. So for instance a Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville has set up the Griffin Center

which is again a youth oriented computer technology center with assistance from Sprint. Sprint has a campus compact some kind of program like that. And this is quite successful but it wasn't until we formed the collaborative that we really got a good sense of the range of activities that are on there. We have a caller to talk with let's do that in Champaign County and its line for. Hello. They're called they're in line for in Champaign County. Well OK maybe he'll come back to the phone in a minute. Let me again introduce our guest. We're talking here with Martin waltz and Paul Adams from Prairie net which is a community computer network here in Champagne Urbana based in The Graduate School of Library and Information Science at University of Illinois. And also joining us is Marky George he's interim director of the East St. Louis

action research project of the College of Fine and applied arts at the 0 5. He's also professor of Urban and Regional Planning we're talking about some of the efforts that they have all been involved in in trying to provide some access to computers computer training and internet in East St. Louis and questions are welcome. Three three three. Wy alone or 9 4 5 5. Also toll free 800 1:58 WY. One thing it may be a professor George can talk a little bit about I guess I'm just sort of curious about what's what's going on these days and how things are going in St. Louis because it's one of those places that that what at least in the past one would think of as being just about the most economically disadvantaged area in the entire state. How are things going in a sailor's. Well I got recently was quite frequently and so sometimes some of the positive changes escape me. But somebody who had been in 96

and one of these one of our work weekends who went back last year was saying there's been a huge improvement in what he saw. What you saw there. But there are still some very serious challenges economic primarily but also if he has a basic problem isn't that it's lost about two thirds of his population since 1964 so for 90000 It's now down to 30000 and falling. What that means is you've got only one third the number of people to support infrastructure the government and all the amenities that we take for granted here in champagne. To give you a sense champagne that the park district spends about 35 or 40 dollars per person per year. Whereas in the St. Louis that's about $5 per person per year. You know there just isn't the resources available data to this number by the way from Bruce Wicks who's a professor of leisure studies here who's involved with us.

So some of the key challenges have been this how do you deal with abandoned and derelict properties. Because you know when people leave they leave the property there. Some of them have absentee landlords or owners and they have really deteriorated. So there have been a fair amount of efforts by community based organizations to deal with these problems and they have been quite successful. So for instance with very limited resources these organizations have demolished and cleared something like 3000 abandoned properties. The. The one thing that's made kind of a big difference has been the new later a light rail system. There was a light rail system that was built from St. Louis airport Lambert Field to downtown St. Louis and then extended across to East St. Louis. That has opened up economic opportunities for the people of East St. Louis in huge ways and probably more so as a as a public or a

federal expenditures it's really it's really you know produce a lot more benefits than we would have expected from most such investments. It's it's we've we've got increasing interest in vestment and housing. So we have a local neighborhood that's going to be invested and with a partner is going to be investing with 30 million dollars in new housing around this light rail station. So there are very clear positive trends we see nice in Lewes. But there are very clear challenges also. So for instance the city's infrastructure is crumbling and it would take something like 100 million dollars to fix that. And we don't know where that's going to come from. The digital divide is a huge issue. But I think the the the positive. Plus the kind of core positive aspect of this whole thing is the strength of community of the people and the community organizations that they that they form because they've all the examples we gave you they bring that

time and the talent to produce innovative interesting ways of dealing with their problems. We are there to help them do specific things but these are all their ideas and their efforts. So. You know don't answer your question I believe the situation's improved a lot both in terms of the city's ability to deal with its problems and the people's ability to deal with the problems. So I think we're going to try again with our champagne Kelly call here limber for just a moment but some apocryphal stories from the area was for that some of the abandoned there like how buildings were in that way from the 1914 riots that happened which was not just a right but an attack on the African-Americans living there and another one of Buckminster Fuller It was quoted as saying may or may not be the case. But the argument was that U.S. loss was the

worst ghetto in the world from all a stick point of view because of a lack of vision of the people there and that's being overcome by. Community groups but. It supposedly was the case when he was there and that was probably late 60s. There are other units that are doing things there I understand I guess maybe I didn't hear the introduction. Maybe you are representing me. I think that's what it's called. If it's in a little bit about but on a more general notion about the digital divide. I don't know if people saw this but the one of the places where this discussion was taking place was by the FCC and the commitment by the canard I guess was a name of the chair. The most recent chair is the son of Colin Powell and he supposedly said digital divide Well there's a Mercedes Benz divide too I don't really know if this is. Case but it basically is diminishing the idea of digital divide as a social justice issue

and it doesn't look good. That's all I want to say at this point I don't hang up and went OK well I don't win. Maybe it might give us an opportunity I guess just to maybe again sort of make the point about why it is that access to computers having some computer skills Internet access might be something important for lower income people I suppose some people would come along and say you know there are a lot of other things that disadvantaged people would need more than a computer. And yet at the same time I'm sure you'll be prepared to argue that you know that's that's really being that's very old thinking. I mean why why would you say that the digital divide was indeed an issue and something that would be important for us to be addressing. I think first off we need to look at the community St. Louis they identify the digital divide as an issue that something that was very important to them. They

either felt that they were being left behind they didn't have adequate resources. And I think a lot of it comes with wanting something better for your children and seeing computers computer use computer knowledge as a means to maybe not only help the community but to help the children in St. Louis to move beyond the community. And I think some of what we've discussed in the past as well is whether you're talking about the digital divide is something that's related to the dot.com society or whether it's more of an organizational issue or sort of thing and. We we talk a lot about dot coms and everything is dot com these days and what are you doing with dot com and e-commerce and E-Trade and if it's just a matter of that there certainly is some issue whether there is a valid reason for bridging a digital divide is it because now they can't afford the Mercedes of shopping on line they have to use

the. Ford of having to go to the store and then you can have a discussion whether the digital divide really is valid or not but I think when you look at the digital divide is something that represents information and totally different lifestyle change that is happening. And information economy then I think the digital divide is something that's very relevant that does need to be bridged that it is a lifestyle change. It's a different way of living and more and more people move to that in the people who move to that are the ones that are able to get the better paying jobs that are able to make a change in their lives. I think I have two quick comments one is you don't have to go recently to see the digital divide. You have been championing tonight. You know so it's not that far away about the digital divide nice in those. I gave the example of the light rail system right. I mean there was a physical device between the people of East St. Louis and the

jobs in St. Louis. And by bridging it with the light rail we were able to have a significant fact impact in people's lives their ability to deal with their own problems was was facilitated by giving them access to job opportunities. It's exactly the same thing with the information age. They are on the wrong side of a barrier between the whole world of opportunity that we take for granted. And and there must be something done too to do to bridge that divide because what it will do is not just it's not just from a sense from. To be fair or from from you know to promote equity. But because it will help then deal more effectively with their own problems. You know they will not need you know handouts or things that they can deal with their problems more effectively if they are allowed to bridge that divide. Just like when they were allowed to bridge the river or provide get access to the jobs you know it's the same kind of impact I think

would be felt by bringing the digital divide. And previous programs I think Paul and Martin have both been here and I think that we have talked about the the idea of community computing and what that's all about and. There also has been a lot of talk about computers being an isolating technology particularly the computer in the home. This idea that somehow people are spending time in front of the machine that they previously would have spent interacting with other human beings face to face. But I think something that I know that you are interested in is this idea that the computer and networks of computers can be tools for community building which is something that on the face of it some people might really not not quite get is that something that you can talk about. When you work with a computer and for many of us this is a natural process anymore. We have

our e-mail accounts and we have our web accounts and we are getting better at seeking out information and sharing information. But when you work with the committee. By and large you still do it face to face. And when you try to develop ideas you often first do it face to face that what the technology does well is allow for you to do follow up sharing of information. It facilitates the passing back and forth of appendices of information if you will but that that face to face meeting is still what is the crucial aspect to building the relationships that allow for collaboration to happen that happens within the academic community here at the university. But it also happens in business and it also happens within the community level that most of what we do in community building and helping communities to build themselves

first happens face to face and then the technology is something that's added on to help facilitate above and beyond that meeting which makes a more cohesive and a better product overall. I would argue that it's also a different impact. Yes computers could be isolating but the technology centers that we're creating are actually becoming social places in neighborhoods that don't have social places. So you know many of those social institutions have gone and really the technology centers represent one way of filling that huge hole in those neighborhoods. So technology actually could have the effect of drawing people together than they are right now. I think also too because St. Louis is in such a large geographic area and people are scattered throughout that by developing these centers that they now are able to share information with people in another region of the city.

I think as we build more of these centers that you'll have more people involved and more people know what other people are doing in that community. Some of the success even of building the centers has often relied upon using public gathering places as the beginning point. That helps to make the technology less intimidating because they're not going into these pristine white walled environments they're going into their public centers and in just something else that's at the public center instead of being just a totally different place and ostracizing place I mean you know the centers that you've been working with one is is one of them actually in a church three of them are in danger one is in a youth organization is when you you said that one of the things that happened was you discover that there were other people who were that you had not been aware of that were doing the same sort of thing is it is it fairly common that that some sort of faith based organization ends up being the host.

It's quite common but we also have an instance a second Red Cross a second John shelter I think it's a four it's a shelter for women. They have women and children they have. So it's a wide range of thing but yes I would. I would think that a majority faith based. Right. Yeah I would think so yeah. I'd like to go to one comment that the caller made about Buckminster Fuller's statement about people lacking vision I don't know. I think the first time I'm hearing about it but that is a common problem. People from the outside even some of us some of our students we go look at what is visually really sad state of affairs and we tend to blame the people who are there for those for that state of affairs. But that's if you look at the surface. If you look below the surface there are all these heroic stories really of people who who do incredible things within these in these limited circumstances.

So Katherine Dunham For instance she didn't give the rest of her life to St. Louis. She's established a museum there. She lives there she conducts dance studios there. So no it's I don't believe it's it's for lack of vision that the people have. It's just that there's been so many it's been ignored for so long that the place and its problems have been ignored for so long by us you know by by the can by the by it's by the state by BY THE NATION. That's where the problem lies it's not for people lacking vision I think that they have a vision they don't have the means to realize a vision. And I suppose the longer infrastructure programs the problems attended to. It just gets worse and worse and worse and just makes it that much more difficult to deal with just the most sort of basic sorts of issues. There must be so much so much ground work so much repair so much of so many things you have to take care first before you can then get onto other things to prepare the one lab that we worked in.

We actually had to have a different work crew come in to patch holes in the walls so that you didn't have snow with landing on the computers. If you know there's a variety of problems each of the sites that we've had to go to they've had to do electrical upgrades or face outages because of short circuits. I mean you know yeah there's a lot of infrastructure work that has to be done in each of the places and that continues to become more and more problem as that deteriorates. Another illustration the property tax rates in the same goes the highest in the state of Illinois I believe rates. You know because they have to they have to raise seven more revenue. And so the rate that they charge for overtime is the highest. So what that means is when you put a new building a new house a new home on one of those properties the tax the actual tax that you paid is huge. So you know they may have a vision but there are these kinds of problems that you know just don't let them do anything about it. So

it kind of rising a little bit when people go oh these people are lazy they don't you know they don't have you know they are motivated enough to do their own you know fix their own problems. It's just there's so many things that act that forces that act against an improving this situation. We have a just about five minutes left in this part of focus 580 and questions are certainly welcome and maybe I should request again introduce reintroduce our guests Martin Wolski Paul Adams are involved with prairie and at the community computing network here in Champaign Urbana of Archi Georgia is a professor of Urban and Regional Planning He is also interim director of the St. Louis action research project. And questions welcome 3 3 3 W wild toll free 800 1:58 W while I assume that this is something that you would like to continue doing and perhaps expand. We're thinking in the short term say in the next 12 to 18 months of expanding the number of sites that we have currently down there which are four to possibly eight or 12. And as mentioned we have been trying to

secure digital funds both from the state and the federal government to help us do that. One of the things we mentioned earlier was the infrastructure in particular the phone infrastructure and how it was of poor quality. And this creates problems with people trying to dial up and have internet access. So one of things we'd like to do is use the Eastland office down in East St. Louis as a point of presence and then try to get broadband to that site and then be able to provide that Internet connection to our partners in the St. Louis possibly by using a wireless system thereby bypassing the antiquated phone system and it's actually really a replicable solution because you St. Louis is an example of several areas that have this population spread out over a large area and with crumbling infrastructure so really wireless may be an effective way of getting

getting this Internet connectivity to these you know far flung far flung technology centers and uses. Go at it again something to prepare. We're also soliciting donations of computers and such. This is just what I was going to be as a matter of fact whether indeed you were still interested in used equipment. We are in particular ones that are coming from office settings work particularly well because first of all you get them in larger batches so they're identical hardware which makes it easier to put into sites. Second of all they're often networked so they come with the network cards already in place. Those two combined really help us set up the computers. We've in the past used a lot of disparate odds and ends pieces. The amount of effort that goes into recovering those and preparing those has just really become quite a challenge. When we get a nice large batch of office computers it's much more

simplified to put the items in place but absolutely you know if we can get a significant donation of computers in place next semester next fall I could take my 315 students and we could start all over. And if the people interested in volunteering that time on computer based projects or other projects in the San Louis we live in volunteers. Can I mention a website and of course it's W W W S E S and P dot UIUC dot edu and a whole bunch of information about the project and about the St. Louis and about volunteer opportunities. Well we're just about at the point where we've used our time are there any last last things you'd like to leave with folks. No not really. Well again again it will say Well first of all if people are interested in finding out more about the East St. Louis action research project of which Marquis Georgia's interim director again that it is the address their

website is w w w dot E S L A R P Wright dot UIUC dot edu so you can check that out. And of course the people who are interested in volunteering their time and they can get in touch with you. And also if people are interested in talking with Prairie net folks about donating machines and equipment maybe first might be a good idea to call and say here's what I got. Can you use this and. And then go from there. That would be wonderful. Absolutely. Our main number is 2 4 4 1 9 6 2 to call and they can call or give a call there and contact us and we can make arrangements to take a look at the equipment pick it up or have them drop it off. OK. Well I want to say it to all of you thank you very much and be very much appreciate appreciate it. MARTIN Well ski and Paul Adams from Prairie net and Marquis George he is with the valve with the East St. Louis action research project he's also a professor of urban and regional planning

at University of Illinois.