Focus 580; Celebrity-in-chief: How Show Business Took Over the White House

In this hour of the show we'll be talking about the increasing connections that we've seen over time particularly over the last few decades between the worlds of politics and the world of show business and very specifically when we're talking about the world of politics we're talking about the presidency. Our guest for this part of the show is Alan Schroeder. He's associate professor in the School of Journalism at Northeastern University he is also a three time Emmy award winning television producer and frequent media commentator. He is the author of a recently published book that we'll be talking about the title of the book is celebrity in chief how show business took over the White House. It is out just now published by the Westview press. So if you'd like to take a look at it it's out there in the bookstore. He's also author of a new book entitled Presidential Debates 40 years of High Risk TV and he is joining us this morning by telephone as we talk of course questions comments are welcome the only thing we ask of people who call us that they are brief and we just ask that so that we can. How to accommodate as many different people as possible and get in keep the program moving along but of course

anybody who is interested is welcome to call here in Champaign-Urbana. The number 3 3 3 9 4 5 5. Also the toll free line and go to anywhere that you can hear us that's 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 so whichever number works for you you gotta just pick up a telephone and give us a call. Professor rush order. Hello Yes hello. Thanks very much for talking with us. Pleasure thank you. We appreciate it. I think that you know one thing that we are guess we have to acknowledge is that presidents like like most of us are are fascinated by celebrities there. They're just as just as liable to be seduced by that but what's kind of interesting here I guess is that the relationship is mutual and that presidents all politicians that presidents particular have a certain kind of star power. And of course celebrities do too. And what you see is if you look at the history that that you have is that entertainers and presidents are fascinated by

each other and that in fact it seems that on both sides they are they feel that some of the kind of star power that the other has. Off on them. So why as president seem to like to be seen with entertainers. The other it works the other way around too is that that yeah they are you know they're just as you know they're just a sort of Starstruck movie stars can be just as starstruck by being with the president as the other way around. Yeah that's right there is a mutual admiration society that goes on between entertainers and presidents although I should say that there's also a lot of variety depending on the president as to how that relationship manifests itself. For instance George W. Bush is not particularly in Aberdeen and members of the show business community or interested by the popular culture and they reciprocate by my not having much allegiance to him. Contrast that with Bill Clinton who was kind of the ultimate show business president so a lot

of that relationship really hinges on the individual president and his particular case. You know well I think that's interesting. I guess that points up the fact that in the. In the Pop maybe in the popular perception there is this idea that the world of show business is liberal and that would be maybe one reason why the current president wouldn't want to be associated with them and I don't know that anybody's ever sat down and figured it out but certainly we know that there are celebrities who are politically conservative and are also willing to stand up and adores conservative candidates and endorse conservative points of view so it's not Hollywood is not monolithic although I don't know maybe it does when it isn't monolithic but it definitely waits more in the in the direction of liberals and specifically Democrats. It's interesting as you go back through history which is what I did in my book and trace that relationship you do see that the Democrats beginning with Franklin Roosevelt really seem to have a more natural bond and a more natural affinity for

entertainers. There have been Republicans who have have you know pursued it fairly aggressively however. Dwight Eisenhower actually was quite beloved by the show business community and I think was probably the most successful Republican in terms of having that relationship. Of course Ronald Reagan is such an interesting example in this discussion on many different levels but the fact that he came out of that community and those people were his peers and his friends obviously not all of them supported him. But I think you can make a case that there's a relationship there definitely and support even from the piece of the Hollywood community that had worked with him and who were friends with him. So if it does this question does tend to predominate on the Democratic side but even Republicans who haven't been terribly successful have tried in one way or another Richard Nixon is a great example who maybe we can talk about a little later. A somebody who really desperately sought that approval and worked pretty hard to get it but never quite close the deal.

Yeah he was. He obviously seemed when when you saw him pictured with people like that he was obviously uncomfortable and didn't quite know how to. Didn't quite know how to talk with him didn't know how to bridge that. That gay. Yap Yeah I think that's right and yeah he's an interesting figure in this because he's the only president in American history who actually grew up in Southern California and at the time the movie business was just coming into its own. So he was very I think in some way influenced by that as a young man Nixon wanted to be an actor. And Nixon took part in dramatic performances at his college and was was quite smitten with the idea of the entertainment community in later life when he began mingling with them he remained fairly starstruck. But you're absolutely right you look at the photographic evidence which is what exists for us today. And you see you can power probably sense that lack of ease in the presence of entertainers. You know Nixon would have loved to have some of that natural grace in front of the

camera that they had but he just couldn't quite swing it you know. Well it does get also get you thinking about How To the extent to which being president night States is a kind of a performance art. And in fact. I'm reminded of the quote from Reagan who was after all the only actor to become president. He said something effective. I don't see how anybody could be president if they hadn't been an actor. That's exactly what he said. He said at the end of his eight years as as president too in an interview with David Brinkley and it's interesting that he you know even after all of that time in the White House after two terms that he would still come to that conclusion. And I think that it it does point to a facet of the presidency that is very much performance oriented and that some presidents have been very gifted that and others seem to lack a knack for almost all together. You point out in the book that sort of the modern age of this association between the presidency and the world of entertainment does start with Franklin Roosevelt.

And although probably the person who brought it to its real high point would have been John Kennedy. Right. But this is does go back at it again as we were talking about in the beginning presidents CIM just as fascinated with celebrities as anybody else and I guess that the one image that I really love. Thinking about is the. And you mention it just in passing in the book is The meeting of Abraham Lincoln and the celebrated small person General Tom Thumb with Wright who was kind of a you know a P.T. Barnum kind of employee I think who was a midget I guess is in a what's that the approved term these days but I think that's what you would you would call him. And that apparently he came to the White House and the story is that Lincoln actually broke up a cabinet meeting so he could meet Tom Thumb. I guess there's there are no photographs of this even oh I would like that's something that that's one picture I'd like to see. Isn't that the truth that would have been sort of the Nixon Elvis of its day right. But I think that's an excellent point that you can go back a long way

in American history and begin to see that that that fascination there Tom Thumb showed up with his wife who was another small person and I was with Vinnie and she was a also a performer in the Barnum and Bailey Circus and throughout the years presidents have drawn other entertainers to the White House often in the context of performance. People who have come to the White House to entertain but. So even as early as that where it really kicks off though is with the spread of mass media. And an interesting very early example is in 1018 when during World War One several top Hollywood stars of the day Charlie Chaplin Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks came to Washington to do a war bond drive on behalf of Woodrow Wilson. Met Wilson at the White House. They caused a huge stir in Washington because they were such popular figures and so even as early as the 1000 teens the White House was cognizant of the power of celebrities to highlight a message or to bring attention to something.

And so it really even predates Franklin Roosevelt. It's also it seems to be the case that the. Has been for a long time that when presidents have important foreign visitors one of the things that they had they that is the president likes to do to impress the visitor is to invite celebrities so that they can mix it up with. Because obviously those people know they are the foreign visitors. If you're the president of Russia you you know Hollywood stars and if if Sharon Stone was at the party no doubt you'd be impressed. Oh yeah absolutely they they definitely use that opportunity they also use that opportunity to have performers come to the White House and entertain foreign dignitaries. And there's been a you know just hundreds of examples of that one of my favorites just because it was so strange was in the mid 60s Lyndon Johnson gave a state dinner for the marriage of Kuwait and for this distinguish. Crowd of Kuwaiti royalty who came in for the event they did a hootenanny show remember those big mid 60s

and apparently even the shakes from Kuwait just sat out in the audience with this absolutely mystified look on their faces they had no idea what was going on and you have to question it. Sometimes it gets almost a little silly that the matching of entertainers to the visitors. The Reagan White House once when the chancellor of Germany came had Joel Gray come in to do selections from Cabaret and that always struck me as a little odd why would you. You know kind of revisit the whole Nazi era if your visitor was the leader of Germany but there are all of these kind of strange juxtapositions in putting entertainers with presidents and foreign dignitaries. Only thing worse would have been to have someone come and do selections from the producers. Yeah. All right well you know that could be down the line I would not rule anything out. I lost one of those stories it's on early in the book that I just it really tickles me is that the story of it was during the Nixon administration and Leonid Brezhnev was visiting and they invited a bunch of entertainers in one of the people who was there with Red Skelton. And there was a receiving line in the entertainers were going

through meeting. Skelton comes up to it says are you a card carrying communist. That's right and supposedly when President got the translation he thought it was quite funny I don't know but he would have a pretty. That reference to the degree Americans would Brezhnev was also entertained Nixon brought a bunch of western stars to his home in San Clemente when Brezhnev visited for a summit and. And Brezhnev had always been a big fan of Westerns and so the opportunity to meet these these these guys was was quite intriguing to him the one that he absolutely fell in love with on the spot was Chuck Connors from the rifleman because he had watched that show back in the Soviet Union and there's a very famous photograph from that meeting where as the president was getting ready to leave from the airport Chuck Connors runs up throws his arm around him and lift him up in a big bear hug. And the term really headed off Chuck Connors later went to the Soviet Union of Brezhnev as imitation made a movie there and just you would never put Chuck Connors and landed Brezhnev somehow together mentally and yet they have this

this weird connection. Let me introduce Again our guest for anybody who might have just tuned in we're talking with Alan Schroeder. He is associate professor of journalism at Northeastern University he is also a three time Emmy award winning television producer and frequent media commentator and he's written a book that looks at this long association of the world of showbusiness with the world of politics and very specifically with the presidency. The title of the book is celebrity in chief how show business took over the White House and it's published by the Western press and questions are welcome 3 3 3 9 4 5 5. Toll free 800 1:58. 9 4 5 will be talking about the fact that we that presidents like to associate themselves with surround themselves with with glittering people with Hollywood types because some of that glitter will wear off but of course there are always examples where things didn't work out quite right. And one of the things that you write about in the book and I'm sure some people if they're of the appropriate age will remember was the time that Lyndon Johnson invited Eartha Kitt to the White House. And this was during the Vietnam

War and she proceeded to give him a dressing down about the war and I'm sure that this was not what the Johnson administration had in mind when they asked her there in the first place. No not at all and it shows you the potential of these encounters to backfire because entertainers play by different rules they're not bound by the same restrictions that politicians are so when Eartha Kitt was invited to the White House for a luncheon of women achievers she used the opportunity to stand up and give this very. Straightforward anti Vietnam speech and it became quite controversy all because at that point public opinion had not totally turned against the war and it was also one of the unusual situations in American history that the really doesn't happen very often where somebody directly confronts a president they're not used to that sort of behavior at all. Although she say most of her firepower for Mrs. Johnson and it was after LBJ left the luncheon when she really went to town and stood up and did this

whole diatribe about the war. It also cost her politically or professionally I should say. She had a number of jobs canceled on her she had difficulty finding work she eventually went to Europe and built herself a career back but it didn't cost her to make that stand and that it does. Strike me as a little bit unusual because it does it does seem to me that again thinking about the fact that there's sort of this mutual admiration or that the two groups have for one another that that most people it seems when they get invited to the White House are pretty much on their best behavior. I mean there is you know no matter who you are if you're a big Hollywood star you've got it you've still got to be impressed by being in the White House just like you were I would be that would be a big deal about being in the White House and it seems to me that you're a little the people even if their big stars are kind of intimidated about it.

Yes I think they are and I think that that's one of probably the last places where they would be intimidated. And so most of them are absolutely on their best behavior and most of them are are quite honored to be there. But during during times of political strife it's you know it it's kind of asking for trouble in a way. Also during the Vietnam War there was an occasion where during a state dinner a performance after a state dinner rather at the White House. Back up singer with the ray kind of singers which was the act that had been booked actually at the beginning of the performance and scrolled a banner that she had had hidden up her sleeve about the Vietnam War and saying stop the killing. And obviously everyone in the room was utterly shocked. The performance was stopped. She was escorted out of the East Room by the Secret Service interviewed slightly detained but then let go basically. But there again it's just it's so shocking when anyone would ever confront the president face to face

much less from a distance of just a few feet away like that. That it's shows of the volatility of some of these encounters. One of the it seems that of the recent administrations the one who that spent sort of the most time courting celebrities and using them kind of US fashion exist Rees probably was the Clinton administration. Right and it's and it's something that I think. Mr. Clinton has been criticized for that it was over that one can understand Association and presidents going back a long way have done it. But some people have said that Clinton somehow there was a line and he went over it. I guess one of the things that I wonder about is I think that there is probably this assumption that people in politics have is that associating with celebrities will do will do something for them or whether it'll make them look more desirable will make them look like regular guys. And whether the idea that if Barbra Streisand gives you the thumbs up that that's somehow will mean that people out there in America will say well

if Barbara thinks that you're great I guess I'm going to vote for you do that. It raises this question of what is the what is that association with celebrity in the world of entertainment. If you're a politician particularly your president on stage what is that. Well it's a great question and it's a difficult one to answer there's one tangible thing and that's the financial contributions and Bill Clinton is a very good example of that. The entertainment community supported him not just in a moral sense moral support kind of sense but by writing lots and lots of checks to his campaigns into Hillary's campaign as well. So you do that in that relationship there is that kind of kind of tangible result that is the contribution beyond that. I think it is that the president if he taps into celebrities in the right way or if he taps into the right celebrities that he can kind of align himself with the body politic with with average people because everybody in the country is in some way involved in popular culture and the entertainment

culture in this country is so deep and resonant and a part of our everyday fabric that there's no getting away from it so I think a president can position himself as a bit more in touch with the people. If he has these alliances. But the danger is that they're either the wrong individuals or the level of the alliance somehow backfires on the president and so highly because streamlined political. Entertainers Barbra Streisand's a good example maybe somebody like Charlton Heston on the Republican side that almost signals things to the voters that perhaps a campaign would be a little leery about signaling. What's also interesting is that you know a boat people on both sides of this relationship can be fickle. They can they can change their mind in political exile has a lot to do with that. And one of the stories I guess I'm thinking about is involve Sammy Davis Jr. one that maybe you you associate with Nixon just

because it was one of those uncomfortable photo op moments that we've all seen of. It's not quite up there with Nixon and Elvis but Nixon and Sammy Davis Jr. is one of those. And it's interesting that Sammy Davis Jr. had previous to that point had Pub. Slickly been a Democrat and a very strong supporter of John Kennedy until the day that he. There was some event that he had been invited to and he ended up being disinvited. That's because the Kennedy people thought that the fact that he was he was going to marry a white woman was just a little bit too much it was it was too controversial he got disinvited and in fact that led him to stay to change his political allegiances and he ended up going from somebody who was a very strong supporter of John Kennedy to be someone who was a strong supporter of Richard Nixon. Yeah that's that's one of the most dramatic transformations Although Frank Sinatra actually took exactly the same path. But Sammy Davis Jr. is a really interesting figure I think in this discussion because he was treated very shabbily by

John F. Kennedy Sammy Davis campaigned with with Sinatra and the other rat Packers for Kennedy raised a lot of money for him. It was kind of a bit of a liaison to the African-American community on Kennedy's behalf. Then when it came time for the inauguration and the big gala show that they did in Washington D.C. Sammy Davis Jr. was not included in that was the first slap in the face but the second slap in the face from the one you're referring to was a dinner for celebrating. Lincoln's birthday a reception rather at the White House to which Numerous prominent African-Americans were invited and at one point Sammy Davis Jr. was on the list. But it was right at the time he was getting ready to marry the Swedish actress May Britt this tall statuesque blonde. And it was too late to actually disinvite him from that party he did show up with his wife. But JFK refused to be photographed with them and basically kept his distance and kept Jackie away from them too so that there would not be this photograph of him in the presence of this inner

racial couple. And I think that's a story that does not speak too highly of John F. Kennedy but it shows you that for somebody like Sammy Davis Jr. that it's a complicated thing to have a relationship with with with a president any president he took an awful lot of grief for that Nixon alliance that came later on a lot of his audience deserted him and when he would perform he would attract mostly white audiences after that not the African-American audiences who had come to see him previously. We have a caller here in people who'd like to join the conversation certainly are welcome. The number here in Champaign Urbana 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 we also have the toll free line. That's. 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 color here is an Indiana toll free line one for the low. Oh yeah. When your guest spoke about the perplexity of having Joel Gray perform it didn't seem out of character for me at all because I think the answer as it was he was it some Nazi sim Terry something later on some

of the soldier which was sort of controversial at the time. QUESTION I was interested in which you may have answered already is have there been groups or a person that's been a star that's been asked to come to the White House and said Hell no. Yeah I believe in your politics and you know take it with you. Yeah. There are there have been there have been a number of those let me name a couple of them for you. The Reagan campaign tried really hard to get Bruce Springsteen The rock singer in its camp and he didn't want anything to do with them. Ray Charles was invited to the White House under Nixon I believe and it kind of realized by the timing that it that he must have been a replacement for somebody who had canceled he was a little insulted by that so he didn't come. Peter Paul and Mary during the Vietnam War were invited to the Lyndon Johnson White House and took the. Opportunity declined because they didn't agree with his

Vietnam policies. The Johnson people had a very difficult time getting people to come perform and so ultimately they ended up doing a lot of ballet dancers and and classical musicians that sort of thing where there wasn't quite the same level of antagonism. So yes over the years there have been a number of people with this current president Van Morrison the Irish singer was invited to perform at the inauguration in fact the Bush people announced that he was performing at the inauguration and he came out and said he had no such intention. And so yeah there's definitely have been people who have disassociated themselves from presidents. Other questions are certainly welcome again as I said 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 2 2 2 9 4 5 5. There have certainly been some notable moments when presidents have actually injected themselves into show business. One need only think of Bill Clinton playing his saxophone on Arsenio Hall

that you know he would be one of great moments. But I guess I'm I'm thinking. Going through the book I'm reminded of a classic one some of the young people wouldn't remember this but this would was the appearance of Richard Nixon then candidate Nixon before he was elected. This very small appearance but if appearance on the program a laffin if you think of all the guys who just didn't you know who you'd never think of in that role. And maybe that's why people love to love to remember it. Those who do you think. Nixon. Yeah. You know Kennedy OK. He was a hip guy Kennedy but not Nixon I guess that really was the point somebody somebody had this idea that that would maybe demonstrate that Nixon was a hip guy to have this even this small association with this what was a very popular and happening kind of program. His writing was not good to be. How did how did that come about. Well it came about because one of the producers of Laugh-In was a man named Paul Keyes who had been a longtime Nixon advisor and you know Nixon did because he was

from Southern California and because he represented California in Congress he knew a lot of the you know the many many people in the show business community his contacts were actually pretty good. So it was through this personal relationship that they decided in 168 when this running for president that having Nixon on Laugh-In deliver one of the little catch phrases of the wind sock it to me it sounds ridiculous out of context. But he just basically popped up on camera delivering this line in the style of the show was this very quick cutting series of kind of jokes and one liners and whatnot. So Nixon in his weird uncomfortable way made his his appearance on laugh and they also laugh and also oper offered the Nixon opponent Hubert Humphrey the opportunity to come on the show and do the same thing kind of the equal time rule but Humphrey declined thinking it dignified. So it is one of those weird and there are so many with Nixon there are so many of those weird wonderful little moments. Another one that never happened but you know you almost wish that it had was Nixon got the bright

idea when he was in the White House. He wanted to stage a protest against a Broadway play popular at the time called hair. And the thing that put hair on the map was it was a musical but at some point during the show all the actors take off their clothes and so they performed naked Nixon was appalled by this. So he got in his head and he proposes to some of his aides who talked him out of it that he should go to New York go see the play. And then when they started taking off their clothes stand up and walk out in this grand display of disgust and make sure there were cameras there of course to record the whole thing. But they didn't do it and it's almost too bad that would have been one of the classic moments in American pop culture I think you know well that points out a number another facet the sort of different facet in this relationship between world of entertainment in the White House and that he's on the one hand presidents like the association with the glitter and the glamour but also presidents have found it useful. To slam that world.

Oh you know it's likely the whole family values kind of issue you know and Nixon is so interesting and never a guard in that he was not only somebody who really tried to cultivate the stars but he put a lot of money as enemies list. And we have something similar happening I think with the current administration they have. They have not hesitated to vilify their political enemies. Think back during the beginning of the Iraq war a year ago the whole Dixie Chicks controversy and the fallout from that the that the Dixie Chicks one of them made the statement in London that they were ashamed to be from Texas because that's where George W. Bush came from. And once that got out you had quite a violent reaction and the White House has a lot of friends in high places in the media including the radio industry and that clout was used to sort of express disapproval of the Dixie Chicks. Bush himself came out and said in an interview look if they're going to if they're going to say that kind of thing then they have to expect that there are going to be repercussions. So

Bill Maher is another example the comedian who was a who who made some remarks after 9/11 that the White House did not like and the White House press secretary came out and said people better watch what they say and watch what they do. And that show was cancelled shortly thereafter so you know there have been a number of kind of intriguing relationships between the current White House and entertainers in a negative sense and I think during the campaign it's likely that we will see as we've seen in past campaigns that this question of Hollywood and its seeming lack of family values that somebody on the Republican side is likely to try to make hay of that that it just did that since you mention it I think the Bill Maher story is really interesting because there it has been characterized the fact that the show was canceled has been characterized as punishment for his right for what he said. And a lot at the same time I think I kind of think I sort of have this feeling also having read about it that that what was also true was the show was just doing very poorly in the ratings

Yeah may have been canceled anyway. Yeah I think that's a fair a fair bit of context for that. Now there were individual cities where it was polled more I think out of reactions from the viewers who were very pro-Bush I'm thinking in Houston for instance he had a lot of trouble with the show in Houston. He made a crack about Barbara Bush one time that didn't go over too well in that city and the local affiliates took him off at least temporarily. So I think it was a combination of things. But yeah I take your point that perhaps the ratings or should I say if the ratings have been through the roof I don't think the politics would have pulled him off. Yeah I think well you know one of the things you can say about. The will show business is that if you're making money you can do anything. You can almost you can almost say guaranteed you can almost say anything if you got the numbers. Yeah I know that's right and there's there's been a current interesting thing going on which is where television shows in Hollywood are putting messages into their everyday scripts that are sort of not so subtle digs on George W. Bush. There

was a George W. Bush lookalike character on the would be Goldberg sitcom. There have been other references in shows like Curb Your Enthusiasm and even law and order the practice. And so you know it's it's a two way street and politicians don't hesitate to criticize entertainers. So I guess we should expect the opposite as well. We should expect the opposite because of course entertainers have their platform and they're going to use it. We have a caller we get right to just maybe I should introduce again the guest We're talking with Alan Schroeder. He's professor of journalism at Northeastern University. He also is a three time Emmy Award winning TV producer. And frequent comment here on the commentator on media. His book is celebrity in chief how show business took over the White House published by Westview press. We have a caller up next in Charleston that would be line number four. Hello.

Yes. I'm wondering if your guest might have researched any. And peak or before radio and TV and movies. This practice in ancient times or you know before the media was as large it is as it is now that they would have practiced some of these very same things during those times as they are done today. It's an interesting question I don't have much information on it however. My sense is that that what really got this thing going was the arrival of mass media and that before that you may have had some isolated incidents of it because the other thing to bear in mind is that presidential candidates didn't ever really even come out in public until this century. Usually they would they would their surrogates would campaign on behalf of them but you didn't have presidential candidates. Presidents in the 18 hundreds going out giving

campaign speeches or attending rallies or that kind of thing. So the whole notion of of sort of politics as entertainment had less to do with the individual candidates back then just by definition so it would be an interesting process and I don't know be difficult to track down information on all of that but my sense is that there wasn't a whole heck of a lot of it. Well it makes me think in the terms of newspapers you know which have been since Gutenberg and that media of which was a form of entertainment. That's what struck me that there may have been somebody preceding that. But newspapers have. Since they came into existence have played a larger role have they not and oh yeah alex and oh yeah because of course in the in the 1900s it was a largely partisan press. So the newspaper you read reflected your political point of view and some of the things that were written the columns and so forth were every bit as nasty and and

vindictive as what you're going to see on cable television or hear on radio talk shows today. So in that sense politics as entertainment for the masses. Yes but in the sense of the individual candidates kind of presenting themselves as entertainers or in the company of entertainers not so much. Thank you very much. You're welcome thank you for the call again. Now the people who have questions can call 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 2 2 2 9 4 5 5. It seems that a lot of the stories here a lot of the good stories have to do with Nixon. And I wanted to get out another one. And that is as you write in the in the book what may have been one of the strangest meetings ever to take place in the Oval Office which was Nixon and Elvis. And knowing what we know about Elvis Presley what makes it even stranger is that apparently Elvis showed up uninvited showed up wanting to offer his services in the war against drugs. Right. Interesting isn't it. Who better than Elvis who better than Elvis.

Oh the ins and outs of that. Yeah he he. It's a very weird story on every level it's even weirder than than I think people realize just from looking at the pictures because as you say shut up uninvited which nobody ever does the White House and expects to get an audience but he was Elvis and so he he showed up uninvited leaves a note early in the morning before any of the staff even got in there at the White House gates saying I'm Elvis I'm at the Hotel Washington I'd like to meet the president. Left it with the guard. It goes to a fairly low level functionary who dealt with drug issues for the White House because of this connection. And they kind of do a pre-interview without us. They make him come to the staff member's office first. They kind of check the situation out and they send it up the line in the next thing you know a few hours later. Elvis is in the White House with the president of the United States and they have this famous meeting where Elvis offers his services as kind of a roving ambassador to youth and he once

he he asks and really his whole purpose in being there he asked Nixon Can I have a federal narcotics badge. Elvis collected these badges any time he would go perform a concert in in a given city. The local police department would give him one of these badges and so he had this whole collection and he wanted one from Nixon and before the end of the meaning he he had his badge I don't I don't think he literally walked out with a Nixon didn't have them right there but he certainly got the ball rolling on it. He also brought Nixon presents which he was not able to deliver because of the president the president was a gun and you don't just show up at the White House packing heat as he did so the Secret Service clearly were not too happy about that they took the gun away from him. You can see the gun now at the Nixon Library out in Yorba Linda California. But they did have this memorable wacky meeting and thank God the photographs that episode survive and they're fascinating to look at. We have someone here calling on the mobile phone cell phone so we'll go there one one.

Well yes. Professor shorter I trust that we're not having another example of media bias and I got into your program I after it started but I haven't heard any examples that you're drawing from the Clinton White House that I recall the Tiger Woods situation. And perhaps there were other issues perhaps you could inform us as to the situation. You know Tiger Woods was invited to the White House and didn't show up. And I don't remember all the circumstances of that. I don't remember others with Clinton particularly. I mean believe me though this is not a partisan issue any of this discussion because there's plenty of good and bad on both sides. I mean if you want an example of something that Clinton did that was negative as far as stars go I think he probably gave some of them a little too much access to the White House you know you had John Travolta getting a briefing with the National Security Advisor and Travolta's issue with

Scientology. Although I should point out that Tom Cruise went to the Bush White House with a similar plea and he had an audience with I believe it was the secretary of education. But my point is that that there are there are positive examples of interactions between presidents and entertainers on both sides of the fence. I think that there just have been more interactions with with Democrats probably because there seems to be more of a kinship there. Well. They get to the question of the color others again are welcome to call 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. Well guess what. When in the interest of bipartisanship maybe we should talk a little bit about John Kennedy since there we talked about the fact you talk about the fact in the book that maybe the beginnings of this this real relationship as it is today it does have to do with mass media and you start to see it in with the Franklin Roosevelt but that the person who made most of it probably was John Kennedy because he was somebody

who was comfortable with traveling in those circles a lot on the other hand I suppose that there if you're looking at controversial connections between presidents and the world of showbusiness that's also the guy that that you're going to love. Yeah I think so. Well and of course the difference between Kennedy and Roosevelt is Roosevelt came along for radio Kennedy came on for television and television rightly or wrongly had more influence and certainly more of a visceral connection to audiences but what people forget about Kennedy that's so interesting to me is that he grew up with show business because his father was a movie producer so when Kennedy was a little boy his dad was out in Hollywood making movies with courses going to Salon for his mistress but people like Tom Mix the cowboy star in a number of other people. And so young John Kennedy was quite comfortable in the world of Hollywood in the world of movies because this was these were his father's business associates he met quite a few of them when he was a kid when JFK was a teenager during a family vacation he danced with Marlena Dietrich

who happened to be there with her family at this resort in the south of France. So so Kennedy was just steeped in it from the very very beginning. It's interesting though if you go back and look at his real or early TV appearances he wasn't naturally comfortable you know right from the get go he worked on it and he got better as he went along. He made a famous appearance in 160 on the Tonight Show he was he was one of the first entertainers to really go that route. And I saw that at the Kennedy Library I watched it he was he was actually quite charming and funny on the show. But he got third billing that night they brought him out after Anne Bancroft and Peggy Cass. There's a name for your older viewers. Yes it's hard to believe that John F. Kennedy could ever play third fiddle to anybody much less in Bancroft and Peggy Cass but some of the callers here people again on cell phones will go to line one first. Hello. I get it. Good morning. Yes going back to the perhaps early ages 1930s there were a radio

equivalent of a radio show a lot by a father coffin or something like kopjes. But he wasn't he was in favor of and then treated and then not in favor of the White House was the story on that. Well I don't know a great deal about this I know that Father Kosslyn was popular entertainment radio personality we should say in the 1030 soup who preached a very right wing message and was was pretty controversial. I don't know enough really to comment about his relationship with with Roosevelt. He falls a bit outside my area of expertise here. Thank you. Let's go to line number two this is also calling on cell phone hello hello. Yes I did want to comment about the visitors to the White House and have been you know attacking the press. It seems to me that that goes beyond the bounds of politics. You don't expect that anyone that comes to your

home if you invite somebody to your home or if you were invited to somebody it certainly is beyond the bounds of courtesy and normal courtesy. You then turn around and criticize your host so it seems to me that an act like that is is not only politically goshi but it's just from ordinary common sense something that one shouldn't do. Yes I agree with that and I think that that's why there was such a strong negative reaction to it was that she had. She had had sort of insulted the Johnsons not just in a public way but also privately just as human the human that that is not a very very nice way to to approach people generally. We talked a little bit about this in a couple of cases but there is this basic idea I think we expected one of the reasons that presidents would like to associate with entertainers with famous people is that some of that glamour will rub off on them will brush off on them. And as far as people in Hollywood are concerned there may end be deede be some of the same

expectation so. And I guess in the same way that I asked the question about whether it was good for presidents to be associated with entertainers. Does that work the other way around. And is it in fact good for entertainers in their career as entertainers to be associated with the present United States. It can be. There's a quote that I like a lot from Katharine Hepburn and doesn't happen was actually describing the relationship between Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire. And she said she gives him sex he gives her class and that's kind of what this relationship between presidents and entertainers are that they can kind of sex up. President C just because of their image they're more fun they're more glamorous and more beautiful. And the president in return gives the entertainers class that they're taken more seriously that they're not just little wind up dolls that go out and put on a show there's something more substantial than that. And that's a hunger that a lot of entertainers feel that they're not taken seriously for their intellect or their minds just

their looks and their God given singing talents or or what have you. So that relationship definitely cuts both ways and there is something very clear in it for each of the individual parties that makes a certain amount of sense I think. Let's take another call here. Urban one and one. Good morning I'm really interested in your program. I don't have my playlist but I hear some of our government the Academy Award might come from dining in accepting that I'd be after made a statement about saying hey Mr. Boehner sifts and it seemed to me and I certainly like to have your comments on it that the army and picking up on Iraq being the last Congress that aren't part of the front that was not responsive to that not that they didn't agree but that they thought it was him. Appropriate pre-Christmas Iraq of a prophet. But I'd like to have your cake on a plate Yes. That was Michael Moore the independent documentary filmmaker who won the Academy Award

last year for the film Bowling for Columbine. And this was right at the at the time the country was just going to go into the Iraq war so that you know tensions were pretty high already right. Yeah he gets up except his award and starts berating President Bush and friendly you know with this prepared speech and he says shame on you say when you shame when you refer to him as the fictitious president and starting a fictitious war and on and on. And it did backfire on him in. I agree with you I think the people in the audience the liberal community in Hollywood that their sympathies with that point of view were probably pretty much in line. However it's a question of is that the appropriate venue accurately and he pretty much it was thought to have crossed the line. It's interesting about Michael Moore he comes back up in the current election in another controversy of context and that is that during the New Hampshire primary season he appeared with Wesley Clark whom he was supporting at a rally and in that during that rally he referred to George W. Bush as a

desert or and this kind of sparked that whole discussion about Bush's National Guard service. It backfired on him in this case not Michael Moore but Wesley Clark because Mark didn't didn't differentiate didn't comment or didn't distance himself from war and he was asked about it for several days running on the campaign trail and it became a distraction right at a point when Wesley Clark was trying to you know distinguish himself in a positive way so you know Michael Moore so far has sort of been a bit of a live wire for both of you for my ability it sounds as if I'm a Bush supporter but I'm a fair person and when I was watching that program I was a shock I think I read been tested shocked if there'd been a Democratic print president and someone whom I might have agreed with had said similar comments I just thought it was an appropriate that's not the venue. Yeah. And you're certainly not the only one who felt that way and I think even people who you know sympathize with the remarks probably didn't like the

circumstances of it or the tone of it. Well I respect your view and I didn't want to be you know one sided but maybe average looking at it in the wrong light no not at all not at all. Thank you. We have a couple minutes left here you know there's something we haven't talked about at all it's yet another really interesting dimension of this and that's the degree to which the White House and the presidency has has looked to Hollywood to learn things about how messages should be presented how the president should be presented. I don't. We end up being accused of being partisan once again but it does seem that this is something the Republicans have been much better at than Democrats and really starting with the with Ronald Reagan. They started paying a much much more attention to how the president was presented. Yeah although I think it predates Reagan I think Kennedy was really the first one because you know you just think even today of the the photographs and the moving footage that exists of Kennedy with his family and in unguarded moments and of course that was all thought

about that was all kind of strategize because they knew the value of those images. Reagan perfected it in the sense that they they took it to new levels they looked at camera angles. I interviewed Michael Deaver Reagan's media guru. And you know he talked about how they love to get the photographers below Reagan Shooting up because his shoulders were broad and you got this kind of empowering angle on him and they were very careful about the lighting and they were very careful about the colors that he wore and all of that sort of stuff and of course as a Hollywood actor he had been. Sensitized to all of those external things Reagan loved being photographed by still photographers for instance much more then. I'm sorry by moving photographers much more than Still photographers because he knew that you could isolate moments of ugliness in a still photograph but if you keep moving. If you're in video or motion pictures that you present you know a more favorable image of yourself. So he was quite good at that. But I would also see you know Clinton was awfully

good at that and took it to new heights. So I I don't see this as a partisan issue I don't think anybody has an advantage over the other. I think they all do it. They all do it to the degree that they can and as best they can and we probably can expect them to even concentrate on these things even more. You know the future. Well that's that's where I guess I would want to end up unfortunately we're almost out of time. Just not very long ago I talked with a fellow who was I'm sorry I forget his name who was hired as the joke writer for Clinton Mark Katz who wrote this book kind of about his experiences in the fact that there are these there these four dinners that take place in Washington where a lot of them are involved media people and correspondents and the president makes an appearance and the president is is expected to stand up there and tell jokes. So they brought this guy in to write basically to write these four humor speeches for the president. And it's interesting one of things we talked about is that the increasing expectation that the president can step into that role can

be an entertainer can get can do stand up right and be good at it and get laughs and it was very important for him to be successful to the extent that the Clinton people actually brought in this guy just to do that so it makes you wonder what you know in future the the celebrity quotient is that going to become you know it's not the. It's not important now but is that going to become even more important. Yeah I think that's absolutely right that we have such high expectations of presidents and their abilities to not only lead the country but to deliver a message cogently. And interestingly and even entertain us to a certain degree. And the more we see presidents like Reagan and Clinton and Kennedy who are really fluent in that the higher the bar is raised for a future for future politicians. So I do see this is a trend that will probably only intensify. Well thank you very much. Oh we're going to have to leave it there we appreciate it. Alan Schroeder from Northeastern University he teaches journalism there. The book is celebrity in chief. Show

business took over the White House very much Professor thank you David Good job I really appreciated the interview.