Vietnam: A Television History; Interview with David Halberstam, 1979 [part 5 of 5]

We could have cording have home movies. I just want to see where it's more to go. This is the last thing. With. All this doubt I seen culminated in the Tet Offensive. And I think that there are two reasons why the NBA did have the way it did I mean who will ever really know. But I think clearly the fact that it was time for the 1968 primaries is one is one reason the second reason is I think any reporter who covered Vietnam always knew that the other side to be a con with the NBA was terrifically tough but very little of it showed on American film because I used to like to fight in the in the farther extremities of the country and they like to fight at night

because they like to protect their human resource they have never had airplanes or artillery or tanks. So the other and we did so therefore they had to use night as their great protection. So what was interesting about that. It was a day change I mean we all the American television cameras always failed to catch the stranger I mean in fact our colleague Bernie Kalb of CBS used to have a phrase the wily VC got away again when it was a title for can a film and the wily V.C. got away again in Tet they do liberally fought in the cities day after day which meant it could be televised in the US at a far higher price. To them in terms of loss of men because we could define use our air and artillery our real technological power far more effectively. None the less our cameras which show how tough they were and I thought of that was the significance of Tet.

The other thing about Tet because we talked earlier about the fact that there was a mindset back home that reporters. In fact had problems with their editors the reporters were younger they were reflecting the reality of feeling in the boondocks. But the editors were a generation older or they were World War 2 mentality earlier and a little bit more cold war. You know the question is did with how accurately did reporters cover the Tet Offensive. Well very accurately and it was a very stunning victory for the other side because it showed that despite all the administration's promises of the war was virtually over there was light at the end of the tunnel tunnel that even half a million men didn't work with the other side control the rate of the war and could keep coming. And it was a very important because it affected not Peter Arnett not Neil Sheehan not war just not Frank MacArthur who defected was. And we grew all the time. Even I know for me it affected Walter Cronkite of CBS. It affected

John Chancellor. It affected Ben Bradley who was something of a hawk if that's the phrase or certainly pro or certainly dubious about critical reporting but it affected a generation that was older in a generation that was more stably and it affected the readers I mean it had nothing to do with the reporters it was a very intuitive sense. But the other side had the resiliency to keep coming. And that's half a million men really didn't do it. And the whole war was disproportionate. Anybody who doesn't understand out about htat really doesn't understand the Battle of this society at home. We're stretched too thin and I mean it this tiny war. That that you know the tail was wagging the dog and the little tiny extremity the fifty first state was beginning to absorb and pull down the other 50 shades of the dist the fabric of the society for a variety of political reasons were simply stretched too thin and kept kept which was in the final snap. But in a sense you're saying that the Viet that the Viet

Cong and the North yet the mes. To a large extent staged Ted as a media event. Well you know I think what I'm saying is that I think there was an intuitive awareness. On their part of our media coverage on the other hand if you want to talk about media events nobody staged media events like you know you know Robert S. McNamara Lyndon B Johnson I mean you know if there was a defeat in the war or if there was a Senate Foreign Relations Committee Lyndon would move the whole cabinet to Hawaii and he you know he grabbed air marshal came in and I want couldn't scans I mean I mean media events. I mean we spent hundreds and hundreds of thousands millions of dollars from you know people paid for by your tax dollars and mine working in the Defense Department in the military a spokesman staging media events we enjoy our SOB would come to the country and they lay on generals to take him around I mean I used to we used to laugh Neil Sheehan and me. I mean there was talk about

taking visiting journalist These father Richard come in for a week and they take him to the Maxwell Taylor Morial strategic hamlet. And you know meet me. I mean everything a sanitized Potemkin village of Vietnam that they would be taken to I mean I mean they were they would take you know they'd fly over reporters from small towns to knowing that they didn't have sources of their own or that they were terribly vulnerable to the briefings of the indoctrinations I mean Vietnam was a terror was a war. Finally unsuccessful media event in the United States government for a long time. And in that media event. Only a very small handful of reporters were really trying to put their foot on the brake and say hey media event or no this is reality and it doesn't work and you've got to understand. Therefore I mean that there is a real thing called the White House press service. And if you're a reporter trying to do an honorable job for a serious institution like The Times was CBS or Newsweek or The Washington Post you go

out and you do a really good tough story about what's happening in the delta. Meanwhile there's some guy from The Wire Service or probably from your own paper sitting in the five o'clock briefing and the majors coming in saying I mean gentlemen today are we had an air strike in the north 200 planes we just we destroyed 13 bridges two bicycle tire factories. It's 400 kilos of rice I mean he hasn't seen it nobody's in about every one. And later that story you know 200 American bombers when you know North Vietnam today just drawing 13 bicycle. I mean whatever it is and that story would go to every paper in the country so there you know you're always fighting an uphill. Fight against this enormous government propaganda agency or aligned with Sheen or media factory paid for by your own fun loving tax dollars. How do you think getting them changed the way reporters reported afterwards. In other situations. Well.

I believe that there is a lineal connection between Neil Sheehan and Peter Arnett and myself to go down through to Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein. I think the Vietnam is the beginning of a great connection to Watergate and it means that you know that you can have you can challenge the essential viewpoint of the presidency of the executive branch and you can if you work hard enough to bring legitimacy and you could you know you have anonymous sources they have official sources but you keep working at it and if you have truth and reality on your side you can win and I think people like Bradley and Washington Post and some of the New York Times and other editors were emboldened to trust their reporters more. Time magazine is a good example Time magazine was Sandy Smith. He's Go read a few others did a brilliant job covering Watergate. In direct contrast to the grateful job done in Vietnam and they were emboldened to a challenge the official version. And secondly to crush their own

reporters in the field and I think this is very important I mean there are two enormous connections here you have this super American government central law. You know some people call the imperial presidency of enormous media possibilities of the presidency dominating everything else on the landscape. And in both Vietnam and Watergate it is not the president versus the opposition party. It is not the president versus the Congress of the United States certainly not of the earlier years. But it is the president versus the press. And I think these connections are very real. I mean I feel quite connected to Woodward and Bernstein and I suspect they do people like me and I think there is a line that reaches there. I think we could call it line of lodges he says. He says you can fall in love with the girls but don't fall in love with the country.

Good. Go ahead David Eustace take off. The reporters. We young. None of us had reputations. We had a wonderful story. I mean if you were going to invent a story it was a romance combat danger. So it meant a confrontation with the president you would have invented Vietnam the best story in a way of a generation maybe with the exception of Watergate. And there we were and we knew we had a slice of it and we knew it was exciting and it was funny. Kennedy would try to get your job but you didn't care because you were in love with the story and hearkens would attack you and you didn't care because you knew you were on to something you knew it was important. You know you were right you knew your sources were so damn good. We were 26 27 28 years old we would work 18 hours a day. None of us was married I mean all we had was a story a total belief in what we were doing. The excitement of it I mean it was a rare moment that came the

once to us. We knew what we knew in a way we never have a shot at something like that again that we were extraordinarily lucky as a journalist to even have that one shot. And we really didn't know that we had it right that our stories were good and we were I think in a very nice way. Fearless I mean we were not afraid of the McCarthy period I was too young for that. We were not afraid of being not being invited to the ambassador's house or being social pariahs and I did what we in our loyalty was not up we didn't care about being editor of The New York Times or editor of The Washington Post our loyalty was to ourselves to our profession to the friends of ours who were sources in the field who were getting killed and in an extraordinary way we were very clean I mean innocent almost were almost innocent but it was a wonderful moment to be a journalist I think would be good here if just to go on with this. If you could describe some of what the life was like you know that ghastly lot as were you when you worked at a just and wonderfully. We had what was in store to give it a beginning.

Well I we're very closely with Neil Sheehan. He and he had this terrible little office and it was the only office in all of Vietnam it was an air condition and it was an overhead fan it was a great meeting place. We had a friend named Ivan slobbish who was commander of the 1st Armored helicopter company which came down one day it was actually a poll that we didn't even have hot showers so he had delivered a hot shower which installed by his company so we could we would also battered our hearts I was awarded it was a kind of excitement you go out in the morning and you cover battle and we're flying back with Ivan one day. And we're flying back and you want to come to dinner tonight. Sure. To Richard my friend Rick Perry you want to come to can't have dinner with my wife and I'm running is that most of those watches were flying a realistic shot at for an hour which is watched by an hour late to what your home phone number you know 2 2 4 0 8 so I would guess this is Red Dog won

calling Charlie camp to come in Charlie camp who comes in can you call Mrs. Merton Perry call her Darlene at 2 2 4 0 8 and tell her that Mr. Perry will be a little bit late for dinner tonight. Wonderful. There was a time it was an extraordinary moment when we learned we were young kids thrown in over our heads I remember once it was a Columbia University symposium on what affected you what turned you around of the war and it look I was a 27 year old kid thrown in over my head. I went there. Neil Sheehan and Homer bigot my predecessor once went down to the mic on Delta. Three days a very famous victories of the great media event sponsored by the McCabe the American command in Saigon and so the very first day there is a victory 30 VC killed the second is quite clear the Arvin won't fight at all. And on the third day they just cut and run. So the next day or so the refs driving back to Saigon a car there's news 25 years

on the national lottery. And I don't know Schori moderate. So Homer bigger Who is the greatest jazz record of a generation 57 years old I mean he has fueled your pride World War Two future price green and you know Homer can really smell it a mile away. What's the matter with you. You know something bothering you. I don't want no story. I wasted all these three days no stories if you asked it. Sure there is a story. It doesn't work that your story. Just essentially just that I don't think. You were willing to go. Do you think there's some real that the press can play the media can play in averting a

situation like that now. Well. It's hard to say whether the press would have performed better had there been more reporters there in the earlier days when it really made a difference I mean sending hundreds of reporters by 1965 and 66 when it sat in on the barn doors the horses out and because a barn door I mean by then it doesn't make a difference were there and were impaled. The real important part was 61 62 63. You know whether they're if they've been a few more reporters the outcome would have been different I don't know I don't think the society was really ready to accept the fact that it didn't work. I first of all you know you might have had reporters telling you know you might not have gotten reporters who are as critical as we were you might have gotten reporters who were more willing to accept the official version. I'm just not sure I have my doubts I've never believed that you know journalistic excellence is in proportion to the number of reporters in fact I have a feeling that you know universe

because in Britain for sometimes the fewer journalists the better because if you get too many you get into a kind of madness of competition. And that might drive you to cover some of the dumber briefings where is this way when there's not too many reporters are able to follow your own drummer a little bit more. So I've never by a by any means had a belief that you know there should've been more on the other hand that The Washington Post did not have a full time staff reporter in 62 is really scabrous and the fact that Time and Newsweek for so long had stringers there was no American resident television reporter as late as almost 64 I mean really I was the first permanent full time reporter for who was really there. You don't need him anymore.

You don't need a shoulder. I mean is that your question. Bill.