American Experience; Freedom Riders; Interview with Henry (Hank) Thomas, 3 of 4

as the seasons are [Thomas]: As i'm getting up off the ground, um, four or five guys coming at me again; and this is when I see the highway patrolman just standing there. And he's kinda standing to the side, but between me and these guys coming at me. I look at him and he doesn't appear that he's going to do anything. So not thinking, impulsively I decided to force the issue. I got behind him; and in getting behind him I'm stumbling, I grabbed him and when I did that he grabbed his pistol and I'm thinking, "Oh my God - I've done it now." You don't touch a white man in the South. And you certainly don't touch a white police officer. He pulls his gun - and was the biggest gun had ever seen - and he fired in the air; there's a picture of him firing in the air. He says,

"Okay, you've had your fun; let's move back." And that's whats- what stopped it. Now in the meantime, talk about some of the two Alabama security people. On of them did help a couple of the women off the bus; there are pictures of them doing that. By now the smoke is fully in the lungs, and everybody is really having trouble breathing. Uh, I fell down because I'm just- I'm doubled over trying to breathe and there's a photograph of the police officer who's standing there, I guess still protecting me and still one of the other folks. The story I learned afterwards, Governor Paterson would not permit state troopers to give us any protection. The head of that department was a by-the-book lawman. He did not agree with Govenor

Patterson. He could not order his other men to go, but he came there to offer protection and it was him that pulled his gun and fired and kept the people back off of us. The drama isn't over yet; we're all sick, we're having trouble breathing. So, there were white people on the bus. So the ambulance had been called. In the state of Alabama it is against the law for a white ambulance driver to give any assistance to a black injured person. So when they brought out the oxygen, and they're giving the oxygen to the white people, they wouldn't give any to us. The white uh, uh- the fire department is because they need to put out the fire of the buses, so they also had oxygen. And my friend, Ed ?Blankenheim?, who passed a couple of years ago, saw that I was having trouble breathing. He took his

mask and gave it to me and you'll see the picture of a white po- uh, fireman there ?inaudible? said you can't do that. And he's just standin' there bemused at the fact that I'm using that oxygen. And, uh to them, the most important thing was, they broke the law by giving aid to blacks. A black ambulance company was called and obviously the whites would not go into the- with the white ambulance driver, because they would not take us. So when the black ambulance driver got there, it was against the law for him to take white people. And we prevailed upon him. And so we co- there were about two ambulances there. So we all got into those ambulances and we went to the hospital; it wasn't over. The crowd followed us to the hospital. We got to the hospital in downtown Anniston. We went into the emergency room. The white staff refused to treat us until we went around and over into the

colored emergency section. Once again the whites said, "You treat us all here, or you don't treat any of us." And I mean we were all in bad shape. So finally, they agreed to do what they could for us. It's not over yet. The crowd is now outside the hospital. They are trying to get into the hospital and of course the hospital has locked its doors. They've telephone and said, "You either let those niggers and those nigger lovers out, or we gonna burn the hospital down. Hospital folks said, "Yoyu all gotta leave." Obviously, we weren't leave. So, they are in a ya know, in a pickle here about what to do. In the meantime, I'm pretty sure Washington obviously knows what is going on, and they probably talked to the people at a hospital and the people of hospital tellin' 'em, "We can't keep this crowd a way; you've got to do something. The local Anniston police won't provide protection."

Bobby Kennedy called John Patterson and John Patterson would not- I don't know, at first he wouldn't take Bobby Kennedy's call. But he kept saying, "Agitators won't be protected by the state." Rich shows were cut a group of black man braves men that i knew how to drive up from Birmingham, a distance of 90-something miles. And that's how we get out of Anniston. And, uh, but those people were willing to burn the hospital down, which of course most of the people in that hospital were white, just to get at us. [Interviewer]: Go back a little bit, um, um you did get some help outside the bus, ?inaudible? story of the little girl- [Thomas]: Yeah, Janie, Ok. Ok. want to write

little girl we were there, yeah, ok. Obviously, we were all layin' down and having trouble and we need it, I guess water; little girl ran into her house and started bringing out water. And she'd run back in, uh, just kept bringing out water. And I got a chance to meet her years later; she was twelve years old at the time. Her family house, they had a store that was I guess connected onto into the house, was burned in retaliation; the Klan retaliated and they were harassed unmercifully for what she did; that she had to leave the city, they had to send her to live with a relative. Twelve-years-old. These grown men were willing to kill that little girl - to harm that little girl simply for her act of kindness. And, so once again the people of

Anniston have amnesia concerning that. [Interviewer]: I want to ask you- [Other voice]: Was she a white kid, or a black kid? [Thomas]: A white kid. oh yes you know slow a little girl who lived in the house a twist up inferno was bringing us water. And uh, she'd run back and forth, bringing water. Then she brought out a pitcher of water and they had some small paper cups and she was just going from one person to the other refilling their water cups. I didn't notice it at the time but people were screaming at her just saying vile, evil things about her. And uh, her parents, of courser and the local parents of course were

terrified as well you know obviously the torah will blow to helping people but they didn't know it was going to happen to them as a result of those people and there were some terrible things happened to witnesses he says till twelve you get into it for a rhetorical trick or twelve your girl was running into her house and bring us war and put your white girl and the crowd was very upset with her and sets a terrible things a bottle and threatening her nope it was just the story last year

though when we were probably at it was governor paterson wouldn't provide any protection local police would not provide any protection and so by now it's nightfall call went to reverend shuttlesworth see if he can bring somebody us upload to rescue its end i don't know how many cars are war but he tells the story later that he insisted that the man not be armed and on so they drove up from of alabama and he said they broke or kansas beatles and and everybody knew what they and that was on a one way one highway to get to an extent and so obviously the man had to be worried about being ambushed along the way and that

was a very very real possibility we got there and we were still in pretty bad shape we piled into those cars and i don't know if i went to sleep go on the way but that's how we get out of amnesty the poor you sure church events wrong right yes well how we do you know we were the heroes if you will but all of us were just in terrible shape physically it just is still having trouble breathing and we obviously were just received by other people

warming hospitality and everything in the world you know people just welcome all says this is conquering heroes and honestly and that was sort of a good feeling but still ew you're feeling physically i think it was the next day when her apartment and then we have missed one of the people in our office we can find them and we feared the worst and the worst that we feared was that he did not get off of the bluffs and there's a gonna be just a matter of time before someone is the report that they found a body burned in the bus and as it turned out he had gotten out of the bus one of the winners had been completely broken out and he got scratched a pretty property bed getting out of the bus and he jumped out of the boss andy white person

stopped and he not flying them down and that's how he got away from that but we didn't know that until about three days two to three days later and jimmy mac now he's passed away since passed away so wrong well we thought they'd get to move to a scientist and lisa boston get burned and no you know but we didn't realize at the time just how badly between those those individuals were jump at who and walter bergman received injuries that stayed with him the rest of their lives and i'm just really had to their best quartered bergman was confined to a wheelchair after all and jam packed suffer brain damage he died some years later the moon is

just isn't the unions here's why ok the people on the hill the bust the one that went into the bus station in birmingham where very badly beaten and someone had those injuries that stayed with them for the rest of their lives it is well how it i didn't i don't quite remember except that i know i was feeling it physically a feeling that i'm in and one of the things about smoke inhalation it has a delayed effect so sometime it's two to three days before it really hammers you down so i was getting to that point where

i was just sick i went home with jim peck to new york the first time where we're going to meet you and for about three or four days i was just really out of it and so we have jumped from a maid the decision to end the freedom ride at that point i dont think i had any kind of a reaction to it and something wood though maybe the rest of this i think was the kids' amass feel blessed art who signaled the rights of data go on well now jane fonda made the decision and i understand why we've just physically were not in a position to go and he really thought that some early to someone's going to kill coca are the farmer made a decision to suspend the ride because physically goals of us who will bolster buses were not in good physical shape to continue and jim also for oh

someone's going to get killed and he didn't know that that kind of responsibility you know he just set the ride is over and beatrice kids you are i flew to new orleans and then from new orleans to new york to live with that in your years where welcomes sclc so that yes we have made the point been the way city felt that they wanted to take up the cause in the courts that stab a week and so they are saying okay you know you've given us a lot of material to go into court sclc felt

also and i've since learned some good reasons for that but they felt that we had made the point and so let's just sit back and see how america reacts the fisk years to tennessee state kids felt that no we need to keep to keep pushing it off and ultimately proved to be right will you do the one line i remember that seem to resonate in ghetto out a response and i said if i wasn't a burly and it would be easier for me to drive

through east berlin than it is for me to ride on the front seat of a greyhound bus through the south what kind of country is this where i have more rights in a communist country that i have in my own country folks thought it was a pretty good line and final question i wasn't just lined with me i want to make drive the point home and so i did and i still nineteen years old and still what was happening to me was pretty at a lot of radio interviews couple of television interviews and go somebody said area expressways several the well and so that was good news in this little kid in school and why when i went back to new york and after

i'd spent and after i recovered court put beyond the disputed circuit and it turned out i guess i was pretty good edgar drawn a crowd and then modestly raising a lot of money i think you call it these days a motivational speaker so i was enjoying that to be neighbors to tell the story what was going on and what happened to us and that i got the news that the rights were continuing much two koreas disappointment and chagrin i sit down and not with a speaking i don't get on the plane go down to one the number goes on gilmore ride and continue on and that's how i made a decision that there are areas where we were i got there the day after the eu the market attack the church where the freedom riders were having a meeting in the national guard had been called the fog out that the next day

and we were getting ready for the day after that to continue to rise all into mississippi and i'll never forget that night when i went to the house where her body was staying they greeted me like a cocker and here only and he decided to continue and of course our rules to the moment a rhetorical it and don't and so i was the veteran i was the devil devil hardened veteran i've been through the fire is and i could use various but local references rabbinical i have been in the burning flames and then come out hardened man and then read it to lead the righteous call ultimately show and those so i was once again and it was a good moment for me and i became a resource person i was an authority on

though what kind of violence we would have them i always have a penchant for for singing and leading the singer singing solos a cheerleader and i was like the attention but i cannot sew and i could tell them about the dangers or heerden the state within nineteen i was nineteen of august eight nineteen for thirty years and so you hear well this band that freedom songs and taken the greyhound bus stu jackson this time i'm riding in the front seat and i'll do we had every time helen you're on the trail and helen mirren it's fine have a new year on travel and on freedoms mine mine you know ray

charles have a song called hit the road jack and we changed it to get your rights jack and don't be a tom no more no more no more normal get your rights jack and don't be a tom no more and that was our exhortation to those folks who were standing on the sidelines in a frayed to go register to vote or something of that nature so so what well when we were taking a bus into mississippi and that's when we sang but otherwise recalls own the freedom riders were on those political bosses so this was kind of where jordan situation to we got to win this state and then once again there just something about crossing the mississippi state lab that sends a chill an insider view and of course you have the Mississippi national guard they're an Alabama national guard handing us off to Mississippi 'cause by now that the justice department is very serious that they'll be no war of what

happened in Alabama and so Bobby Kennedy, I think he federalized both the Alabama and the Mississippi national guard at that particular time so they had to then give us protection. But once you cross that Mississippi state line you knew, hey, we're in the jaws of the tiger now, notwithstanding what has happened in Alabama. mississippi promised do not play with this song to speak. Okay? [Interviewer] So Mississippi had its own way of handling it-- [Thomas] Yes, we did not know that the rules of etiquette in Mississippi was you always said "yes sir" and "no sir" to a white man. [Interviewer] I'm sorry, can we start again without your hand covering your--

that's fine. Can you put your hand here? [Thomas] Okay. And they were going to-- [Interviewer] We have to start over. [Thomas] Okay. Mississippi etiquette, racial etiquette, is that a Black man is always supposed to say "yes sir" and "no sir" to a white man, and "yes ma'am" and "no ma'am" to a white woman without exception, you're supposed to be there. We didn't know that, so the surprise they had for us was when we get into the police station that we've been arrested and were to sit there and get processed. Four, five police officers-- I'm sitting there like I'm sitting in this chair, at the desk, and they would be around you and they'd ask you questions. C. T. Vivian was the first one in to be processed, and they would ask him - let's say you - C. T. Vivian's age

may have been 35, "Say, you're 35 years old?" And he would say, "Yes I am." And they'd jump on him and start beating him. Why? Because he didn't say, "Yes sir." There was one of the individual, who went in and of course all we could hear was the beating of this individual well, honestly that- that alarmed us. But we had a quick meeting, alright, we're not going to say yes sir no sir but in order to avoid getting bitten you answer a question with the affirmative case in point you're named henry thomas my name is henry thomas you from st augustine florida i am from st augustine florida so you always avoid having to say you open the border yes and no question we had to say sir well i was doing pretty good

and they had just finished with me and they say that i think of course we're if you get anything yesterday episode no and i just so stories and i'm relaying that therefore but a couple seconds because i'm very very angry and obviously the impulse is to get up and start shooting but also new revenue or be a demand for tickets or got up slow and each one of them had their hands on a gun. But once again, I was determined that I was going to win this one. So instead of showing fear, I showed anger.

And I'll never forget the one who hit me. He was a little, short fellow. and he was ready to hit me again, he said "you didn't get enough? You didn't get enough?" And I just stared at him, and we stared at each other for a little while and that's when the sergeant intervened and said "just sit down, just sit down." And I will never forget that guy's face. But nevertheless I didn't say "yes sir" or "no sir". [Interviewer] Now talk about how Mississippi decided to handle you guys. [Thomas] They were no problems outside of the bus station, I think the bus station had been cordoned off so no people were allowed, they had all of the paddy wagons there, they had kind of rehearsed, if you will, what they were going to do. You walk inside the waiting room if you're a Black person in the white waiting room, the police captain captain Lee would say "move on, move on, move on"

three times and then you would be arrested and they'd take you immediately to the paddy wagon and then immediately to the jail, and that's the way it was. [Interviewer] And so they decided that what they did would be out of sight? [Thomas] Yes, and that's when the beatings that they started with us inside the jail. [Interviewer] Okay, I just need you to say that they were going to do what they did out of sight. [Thomas] Okay, they were, of course Mississippi, if you're a Black person you were arrested by the police you gonna get whipped. That was standard, no matter what it was, and so they were determined they were going to show the freedom riders that they are in Mississippi now and so they were looking for an excuse to beat up on us and that idea of us not saying "yes sir" and "no sir" to a white person was what was used.