War and Peace in the Nuclear Age; Interview with Norman Cousins, 1986 [2]

Do you recall the date. I don't suppose that anyone who. Was alive on August the six thousand nine hundred forty five. And old enough to. Look at a newspaper. And read a headline would love to get that. Yes I I have a very vivid recollection of the day I was living in Connecticut at the time. But I stayed late and so I stayed over at. The home of my physician Dr. Hitz of New York City and he had the Times to live it every morning and I. Picked up the copy of the times and they're spread large. Was the headline about the atomic bomb being dropped on Hiroshima. I had been. At the time. At the time I.

Was editing the magazine USA put out by the United States government for distribution overseas and a number of languages and we would receive government reports. And so we were following the development of new weapons technology very closely but nothing had been said. About an atomic bomb. And so I was completely taken by surprise as I read the story the big question that occurred to me inevitably was. How is it that we did have a demonstration. Of the power of the bomb before dropping it on human beings that I didn't understand. The fact that we use this fast new power with on human beings. Without issuing an ultimatum. To Japan which would then have the responsibility for making that decision that that fact was to me a devastating one. And I wondered about at the time and stayed whether it stayed with me

especially when. The president came out to make his announcement that he dropped the bomb because. He wanted to avoid an invasion that would have cost hundreds of thousands of lives. And. I didn't see how long. This particular need. Would not have. Been maintained or how and how this affected a a test bombing because he still could have had a demonstration of the power of the bomb. And if the power was as great on the test target as it was. On Hiroshima. Then. That would have said the same thing to the Japanese with respect to an invasion so I still didn't see how the argument about invasion applied to a. Demonstration of the power of the bomb.

Can you recall the day that very well my first. Awareness came in picking up a copy of The New York Times and I stared at the headline and must have read the headline four five times before I went on to the new story. It was a tremendous shock I don't think I felt elation. The big question occurred to me was. How is it that we didn't demonstrate the power of the bomb before using it on human beings. That was my dominant impression that afternoon I spoke the wall of a story before a group of businessmen. I found them on a state of great elation over this and I raise that question I. I remember

saying to them yes the war is drawing to an end. But I am not sure that was necessary. To kill a hundred thousand or more human beings nor to bring this about. And then in the. Months and years after the bomb bits and pieces began to come in. About the decision to drop the bomb things that had not been told to the American people. One thing for example it had not been shared with the American people was that. The United States was racing against a deadline with respect to ending the war and that. A test demonstration would have used up valuable time. Well what do we mean we save valuable time. And what is the deadline. The United States the Soviet Union had agreed that the Soviet Union would come into the war

on August the 15th. 1945. This had been agreed that you alter whether you date at that have been set at that time was August the 8th nine hundred forty five. But at the time that the date was set which was that Germany had not been defeated. Roosevelt was still alive then when President Truman went to Potsdamer in Germany to meet with Premier styling. The firm date was fixed as as August the 15th 940 time 5. But once we discovered and this was on July the 4th July the 16th. While. From the period from July the 16th of 2015. While Truman was a part staff and that approximate period at the end of the last two weeks in July. When Truman got word.

That the United States had successfully tested an atomic bomb and how grown Mexico suddenly things changed because now we recognize that would be possible. To finish off Japan without the assistance of the Soviet Union. Now this may the decision may have been justified. My point is that the American people were not told exactly what the situation was. We were given the impression that the bomb was necessary in order to avoid an invasion. We were not told that the reason for dropping the bomb. Was that we having persuaded the Soviet Union to come into the war. We now discovered a way of ending the war without the help of the Soviet Union. I have been looking I've been looking at the actual documents and this is very interesting. It's a very we've got some very interesting material here which demonstrate that the.

That the bomb was not necessary to win the war. For example Truman's own journal. Which was lost as a matter of fact for a number of years because. Charles Ross the presidential secretary had borrowed. The papers and had returned them. And so they they were missing but they finally turned up. And in these papers we read from Truman's Journal. That we read. That Truman kept pressing Stalin. For his specific plans on entering the war. But then. And in fact. The moment that he had the sun equivocal assurance he wrote in his diary. On July the 15th on July the

17th. He said most of the big points of settled reporting is conversational styling. He'll be in the Jap war on August the 15th. Japan is finished when that comes about. Then the next day he wrote in his diary that he believed that Japan would fold just when it learned at that point to learn that the Soviet Union would come into the war. So there's no question about the fact that Truman believed that the war was going to end very soon. And that just the fact the Soviet Union was coming into the war would be enough to get Japan to pull out. But now we find some other entries here. Incidentally we find that in his entry. For July 18th 1945. The president gave additional evidence that Japan was ready to quit the war because he said he had received from the styling. A copy of a document. And which the attempt of the Soviet attempt of

Japan to seek peace terms was revealed. Since the Soviet Union was not that war with. Japan. Japan wanted Moscow to use its good offices with Washington. To ask for peace terms styling. It gave Truman at Pottstown the cablegram the actual cablegram in which on the authority of the Emperor. The Soviet Union was asked to inquire about peace terms. So it is not true to say and this is the impression that. President Truman gave the American people that Japan was resolute on keeping on continuing in the war and that only an invasion could have brought about Japan's defeat. Now we have some additional information here. First that on hearing the news. That the United States had an atomic bomb. President Truman wrote in his diary that. The United States had the obligation to issue a warning about the existence of the

bomb. His actual words were. Even if the Japs are savage ruthless merciless and fanatic he wrote We as the leader of the world for the common welfare can not drop the terrible bomb on the old Kaplin new. And then he wrote that it issued a an order. For a warning to Japan about the bomb. Asking them to surrender and save lives. Well this was not done. Why was it not done. It was not done because of the fact as I said that they wanted to get the war over with before the Soviet Union came in. A warning would have used up time a test demonstration of use to time. Now here we have James F. burn his testimony. Byrne was secretary of state under Truman he accompanied Truman to Potsdam. In an interview he gave on August the 15th.

To U.S. News and World Report. He answered a question the question was. Did we want to drop the bomb as soon as possible in order to finish the war before Russia came in. Burns replied. Of course we were anxious to get the war over soon as possible but this was a rather equivocal answer and so the end of the Opus isten. Was there a feeling of urgency to end the war in the Pacific before the Russians became too involved. Now at this point Burns was an ambiguous quote. We wanted. To get through the Japanese phase of the war before the Russians came in close quote. Now this was Apple applied in the diaries of James Forrestal. And which who was that of the secretary of the Navy. In his diaries he wrote. I talked with burns. Now at Potsdam Burns said he was most eager to get the Japanese affair over

with before the Russians came in close quote. Now we come to leo's allied to the famous physicist. Who was one of the prime scientists scientific figures and the development of a bomb. He had some conversations with Secretary Burns and he repeated the same points the Burns had told US News and World Report. And then he added. That he the Saillard was told by Secretary Burns that he and President Truman burns and Truman believed the use of the bomb on a live target before the war was awful was necessary to make an impression on the Russians. And to make them more manageable in the post-war world. Now what about this question concerning Japan's military situation at that time was it true that. Japan was going to fight to the bitter end

making an invasion necessary. Let's look at the testimony of Admiral William De Lay who was the military aide to the president and Lee. And who wrote his memoirs on it was the title. I was there in these memoirs and relate he wrote that all the evidence available to him indicated that Japan was on the verge of surrender even before the bomb was dropped. He said that he was opposed to the use of the bomb on human beings both on military and moral grounds. I now quote from from Lay's memo was. It is my opinion. That the use of this barbarous weapon. At Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated sadly and ready to surrender because of the effect of sea blockade and the successful

bombing with conventional weapons. My own feeling is that in being the first to use the atomic bomb we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. Close quote. General Eisenhower. Eisenhower wrote that he shared Lay's moral repugnance over the use of the bomb on a live target. And I said now is a book a mandate for change we we find his reaction on learning from Secretary of War Stimson. About the fact to the bomb that we intended to use and quote We now quote Eisenhower during Simpson's Reza took recitation of the relevant facts. I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced voice to Stenson my grave misgivings first on the basis of my belief. That Japan was already defeated. And that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary and secondly because I thought our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of

a weapon. Whose employment was I thought no longer mandatory to save American lives. George C. Marshall who was chief of staff. Marshall told the president he. Thought that we ought to have a demonstration bombing perhaps against a naval installation. A distant from a population center. Finally what about. The chiefs of staff themselves. In 1946 there was a publication published by the department then the Department of the War Department in what was called Japan's struggle to win the war issued by the US Strategic Bombing Survey. Even if the bomb atomic bomb been up and dropped the survey found. I now quote air supremacy over Japan could have exerted sufficient pressure to bring about unconditional surrender and obviate the need for Evelyn Beijing.

Certainly prior to the end to thirty first of December 945 and in all probability prior to the first of all of them the one thousand forty five. We have all the other quotations here from other military figures but I think that that the evidence is clear that we have tried to rewrite history. The evidence is clear from other military sources that Japan was on the verge of surrender. And that we have now been attempting to rewrite history in a way that makes it appear that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were absolutely necessary to win the war. I have been living very uneasily with this fact for some years. I've been in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I have carried out medical projects.

In those cities we have brought in people who have been maimed. Or injured by the bombs of the United States of plastic and reconstructive surgery. We've also trained Japanese doctors in plastic and reconstructive surgery. And I must say that. When I visit the city as I did again recently and look at the survivors this weighs very heavily on me. In warfare we. We have to do terrible things. But as Admiral Leahy said. Even walk you always have to ask yourself a question. Are you taking life unnecessarily. Are you making responsible decisions. And this decision it was clear. Was more for the purpose or more for political purpose in making the Soviet Union more manageable in the postwar world than it

was for the purpose of ending the war which the American people don't.