American Experience; Freedom Riders; Interview with William Harbour, 2 of 2

zoo you know but with so much to enter one of things that we had practiced in nashville one of framingham they would always tried to hold the question of you know they get the first and we had done so why young ladies females and Jim was like so and we began to go towards Jim and the white females to see if we can cover them from keeping them to get beat so bad, but the mob was so forceful and and things started happening so fast until we were't able- really even able to help them out and uh so then we started saying we could protect ?our ownselves? and the custom mob was just beating everyone else the same time {Interviewer: Did you get beat?} Oh yeah (inaudible) Yeah, I fell on the rail and had one fractured rib bruises and that kind of stuff. But it was nothing major like Jim and John Lewis. [Interviewer]: So I want you to give me a little bit more detail. I want you to go back in memory and tell me and tell me what you remember. Ok, so tell me how you were trying to protect the women /inaudible?.

but {Interviewer: You cannot get to them. What happenned?} Ok, so uh I saw the mob start grabbing the news, the news people and was beating them real bad. And people was still gathering. There was thousands and thousands. And people was starting to starting to started gathering at the bus station. So only thing we could do was, we could uh, try try to protect yourself at that time, and that's when several of us went down to uh to the post office to get protection from those people that federal government. [Interviewer]: So you were running and ?inaudible?? [Harbour]: Well everything was- ?inaudible? started happening so running running, and people were running after me, and beating me with bats and so forth and we got scattered; we were not able to protect any of us because of the mob. It was so great.. Everything was happening so fast (inaudible)

oh yeah, oh yeah, they had it happened so fast I didn't see any ropes, but but they had baseball bats, um, sticks, chains, everything. [Interviewer]: Did you go into the post office? How did you get out of there? Yeah [Harbour]: Yeah, finally the police came around. I don't know if it was a plan that the police would not not show up in the bus station. Uh, they knew we were coming and they had agreed for protection into Montgomery, and the Montgomery policemen knew we were coming. But uh, when the bus, when the protection as we got to the the city limits, that means that they should have picked up the bus on into the bus station but they didn't. So I think it was deliberate that they woulda wait until the mob beat us for a certain period of time and then they showed up [Interviewer]: um, you.. you're a year from now that's

how you up with his view is surprising the movement of people do [Harbour]: I was very surprised ?inaudible? thing that would happen in alabama I guess i've been into the near death of song o and see that type of model that will happen in an n and Anniston and Birmingham and Montgomery, it was far[s] away from my memory. memory. I just couldn't believe it. their free will is a place in [Harbour]: We were placed in several houses in the community and getting ready for a Dr. King was coming down ?inaudible? a mass meeting that night to finally got them at the other end it's a mess in the church and then let's say in a next step and the next level it could be an image from civil

war we didn't know at first because we didn't have a place to look into the person committed and we don't want the mama was located so we'll have a chance to talk to jail until the mass meeting which was the next nine years there have been indirect we think we are well when felt better and that mccain would be ale to us and we knew that some of michael decision was a second phase of the decision to come in because the bottom of the reddest up among them and then the same type of thing which i think was not worse among them women decision again when the wreckage in anderson that's a way was the meal of nashville tennessee were the wreckage in iowa we get

protection from government when they use it that day or that week we knew that it would not that was something that that was also the law and good lord and pass and and that women have not been enforced and not he was trying to sit and do some defend that that they would have a right to do because a lot of government press for the ride on the bus with one of the station so there was some so we had an incident that we will really content to make a shoe that blows enforced and it won't stop and go but major conflict an issue haven like there was a church we sold the odd hours after member of a conductor moments in the cars burned and outside of the church sit in church with

museum posters yet the beautiful stained glass and you can see the fire of a fire on outside harlan from from groups on our side and they took us in to listen the one for the road open the quest and so if you're full of the mug came in italy can find us like an astaire because now most of that question to be pessimistic so he's dealer knew he was one of freeman's so well negotiation will most of it and that the king was a wicket calling them that can diminish nation and china's protection cause i read the little miniature so you get rid of that anonymous a dozen church it to tell people in search for big nasty and i was afraid also oh so true union organizer

what the news was the center for the most needy it was great no no probably knew that the victims and turn that we had pep things will happen and special friday we knew that we had about king was talking to were the canon ministration and that they also targeted owner patterson they would've said it will continue for it will potentially into jackson listen to their children about what they're feeling pretty good that the mannequins and taliban's inner happen when you sigh no hope of the first what users is only the people that what in the missing and as tam progress oh yeah so you know

ok with ursula church no reason at her most happy the government set about fort hood ben and go into jerusalem as maybe two three hundred people away not that became a retired person until twenty twelve when will you know that sir and i'm a while was introduced bills saying in freedom songs and have a good term and so forth and if i was ok liza minnelli and that mccain left from upstairs downstairs so about a fella someone loyal and as tam progress it turned out and the new solo i wonder how i'm an unknown and so flexible like through the stained glass windows and you know they use it because of some other members it was ten and the church had public of a mass at a church and the

klan again dumas begins cars over the months and was that what you love mr holland see because martins awful and we felt that you know that we had had protections and go away and we knew that the king was mike and so will call unassuming doesn't cause we thought they don't want georgia mr shalit thing that the toppling of church we just knew that the church on the sofa and weaken europe or we can leave the church because jamal was on outset just a game of the bus in montgomery and among them in a bus station virtually no love was there but we knew him and among them and that the mobs are now sell them that the church and i would be a public years before you took out so we track an exceptional job of death are trapped in a church on the wane for some two thousand and eight and then eventually

that came came up and i was at that they can demonstrate an idiot what it would've done or the missouri the detectives and we should go to church and got out now three miles and church other people and the comedian george to three hundred people and to go where's the new midnight with no protection founded after remember you know i remember the big armored trucks national guard big ships coming in and his daughter goes up at a church and when the song a bit but on the trip that's what i understand that the national and other ties and frozen and was uncontrollable of them so long as you are there two hours i guess touches yours with women and children and they're coming here it was women children and they knew about it

from i would happen among them and there was concern to say want to know what will happen and i was awake amid mass means among the maryland and other decision and we made it and we let the church we had a fat so ago we couldn't go to a motel that have no motive that might vote no if they can so we had a fight and they had a fire and people in the community that was willing to let us come in our house and stay until the next day because if tomorrow we will look at their problem out of them so that was one reason what took them so long for us to work leave the church cause we had the health of the agreement from commuter leaders committed folks that has come into the night what was the role of feeling in the year in churches paul

trachtenberg only austerity you know because we're still making speeches walls of human well anyway we try to do is especially vivid tried to will cuba's come because they knew would go into so much a day but late in manhattan with mit when we realize it was trapped in the church it was fun for a lot of metaphors was emphatic and children injured so lawfully in general unintelligible happens when overly broad in a church or a little concert in unison does that ensures you know the next day i know isn't really in the oil whisking to do the other trivia buffs filing center a woman in nashville tennessee for to prevent it and took some poems ale the two second planted thousand

and then turn around two days later cub us back into a winner michael jackson and on an object in the city then jackson miss if those arrests or walked in to be a bus station and gas will hammer and cocaine miller rest of rope bridge of peace to jail the next next day to trial and was so it's a richer bass payphone citadel as a success its asset base undue so we refused to pay bail bonds to restore calm and we'll provide permanent housing jackson and her that had reporters later and we later when they were transferred us to pasha most epic western for an amazing grit i had sex and a lesbian but called the sad that we need is some people to test the system in a call and says atlanta last clue they sell one selected to an elderly than sixty days and the what an african history tells the foreign and is in prison

so you and you and me they believe a letter from a person was in jackson and when i rose saying and haven't determined and things is graydon and no in an hour or a minute pitch alone tumbled with the runaways in prisons because all in and wanted to present (unintelligible) Parchman, I pulled in and saw that big iron gate, and this uh, this (unintelligible) upon effort a big prison cell I said I just can't believe I'm in prison and a real prison, and that was Parchman, and that's where they had had uh, that was the state prison, that's where had murders, they had everybody everybody there, we were not mixed in with the general population in the prison. it was separate, right, one thing about Parchman, though

the food was good. They had big farms down there. Thye had they had planned to put us down by the farm and we were going to have a sit down strike, and they didn't do it, but tey they raised their own food, they had goat milk, all kinds of vegetables. it was so, it was good in Parchment, it wasn't good in Parchman, but the food was good. The food was good in Parchman, a lot better than in Jackson, Mississippi What do you remember about your time in Parchman, besides the food? well, one of the things that that really disturbed me in Parchman, was that, well one of the after being in jail so long, you don't know what day it is. The days start start passing and passing, but you could always tell when it was Sunday. Cause you see all the old ladies come in, little old white ladies come, and give you the testament bible and they talk to you, they said, "son, do you realize that Jesus Christ"

Jesus Christ didn't mean for this to happen, so you knew it was Sunday, because they would come in and you would get your little preaching preaching, and then they would go on back.. But uh John Lewis was also a student at the seminary, so we had a chance to read read the bible, go thru the Bible several times, and we kept time passing in Parchman in Parchman, but you knew when Sunday was coming, because you had a visit from the little old ladies. Interviewer: I heard that John singing (inaudible) Oh yeah, we did we did a lot of singing, that's to pass the time away. It was in Jackson they went um hunger striking, and then after about three three, three to four days, that's when I had the belly, ulcer started bleeding they had to call the doctor in, and give me some medicine for my ulcer, even even four or five years later the ulcer still bothered me from Jackson. We did a lot of signing in Parchment and also in Jackson What did you all sing? All kind of freedom songs. There ain't no

There ain't nobody turning us around. One of the things I remember that John, John was was. John said he was still studying in the seminary, and we got to a part, we were talking about the Bible we were talking about Paul and Silas were bound in talking in jail, and nobody go to their (inaudible) and then we talked about the fact that they prayed so long to the jail door, the door busted open busted open. I said "John, if you believe that well in the good lord, please call the good lord to let let us out of this jail...laugh, so we had a lot of fun. We really did Were you a singer? A little bit. Yeah What was your favorite song? Um, "(inaudible) turn us around". let me hear it..Uh, no you're not going to hear me singing i yeah, I want to hear (unaudible) so you said after when you finally got out of Parchman (inaudible) After I finally got out of Parchman, I went back to Tennessee State, and I was informed by the President, I had a letter that that I had been expelled from Tennessee State, twelve of us had been expelled.

expelled from Tennessee State. When that happened we filed a petition against the state. In the meantime In the meantime, I received a scholarship at Central State, in Ohio when up there for one semester, came back to Nashville Tennessee, at the end of that semester, we won the case the court to get us back in school, we were back in school, and I graduated in four years audible.. You were expelled why? Why, Well they said, that I want you to tell me you know what I mean? Why? ok ok, So you get out of Parchman, and you went back to school, when. When I got back to Tennessee Tennessee State, we got expelled, and "inaudible" When I got out of Parchman, I went back Nashville Nashville, Tennessee State, I was assuming I was back in school that September when you receive a letter from the president of Tennessee State, who had been pressured by the Board

Board of Region, to expel us because it was a state school, and they said it was because we violated violated the state law of being arrested for going on a freedom ride we were expelled. So you were expelled from what shool? Expelled from Tennessee State from Tennessee State,yes, that's correct.. ok, ok, Um Um, So tell me again how How were you selected to be on a Freedom Ride? Well I think I was selected because because I was from Alabama, and the bus that was burned in Anniston was was only 20 miles from where I was born, where I went to high school, and other reasons reasons that I knew the territory, I'm from the area, and I I thought that uh, and they thought that I would probably help if anything happened, if we got lost if anything happened to the bus, so that's why I was selected. Um, You said before the that there was a feeling that the federal government had not (inaudible) freedom rides. That the federal government was not making it

a real effort to protect the freedom riders. Is that true? Right Right, well I think what happened is that back during these sixties, you know, black folks thought that the Johnson, the Kennedy administration would was a friend of black fellas, and when the Freedom Riders started and also when demonstrations starting, in mostly different places in the south, I I don't feel that in that time, I didn't feel that the administration was was asserting any effort to make sure that we was protected, and I thought that was a disappointment to to a lot of black folks at that time, cause we felt that we were part of the reason why that Kennedy got elected President, I don't know how many of us voted him in but we had a feeling at that time, that we had a friend in the administration. Why do you think that you went thru so such efforts to be part of this movement? part of the Freedom Rides? You know what I mean? I mean

your father probably grew up in Alabama. Right? Your father's father probably grew up in Alabama? Your father's father's father probably grew up in Alabama. They didn't grow up with this Why do you think that you made such an effort to be part of this part of the freedom riders, part of the change? Well, one of the reasons I think that I grew up in a small town, and I went to Nashville, Tennessee which was a larger town town, it was a major force, for it was my experience had been in other places doing during the summer, so forth, but I saw that we could make it different, make a change in it, now now, at first so I didn't really know exactly what was going to happen because even when I went on the freedom ride, and when I was in Parchman, Mississippi, my mother my mother wrote me a letter saying "son, you cannot come home" so it was two years before I went back to my hometown after I got out of jail in Mississippi. I couldn't go home because you had people that my mother said you had cars there every night, parked down the side by the house waiting for me to come to town. And you had other folks that came and went

and going by the house and asking when was I coming home and if my insurance was paid so up not only that I had problem from getting on the Freedom Ride, but my family had problems. My father My father worked at a small little cotton manufacturing place, and and they were asking him questions every day, especially when they saw me on television. That, what's wrong with your boy "what's wrong with that boy of yours?" and he told them, he raised me and that I finished high school, and I went to college, I was grown and I was on my own. But he caught a lot of problems, my whole family caught problems, me and my sisters and brothers was in school at the time, because I was one of ten, and they caught problems also. (inaudible) you were out of eight? out of eight... I'm sorry, take that out ten in the family, ten in the family out of eight, you were listening, I was out of eight children. (inaudible"

One of the One of the things that been happening lately since the Freedom Ride after so many years. Tennessee Tennessee State felt that they needed to apologize to the students at the they put out of school. So last September, forty-seven years later, we when collin and i think they were saved the power does the grey appreciate that