American Experience; Freedom Riders; Interview with Jerry Ivor Moore, 1 of 4

[Interviewer] Okay, so first thing that- we just want you to- to read that, uh, application. [Moore] I wish to apply for acceptance as a participant in CORE's Freedom Ride 1961 to travel via bus from Washington D.C. to New Orleans, Louisiana and to test and challenge segregated facilities en route. I understand that I shall be participating in a non-violent protest against racial discrimination. That arrest or personal injury to me might result and that by signing this application I waive all rights to damages against CORE, the Congress of Racial Equality, its directors, its officers, any other sponsoring organizations, and all others in any way connected with the Freedom Rides. [Interviewer] Okay, that was good, let's cut. You want to try that again, like, and, like, now you know what it says, just try not to shake the paper too much so it- so it doesn't have too much noise. [Moore] I wish to apply for acceptance

as a participant in CORE's Freedom Ride 1961 to travel via bus from Washington D.C. to New Orleans, Louisiana and to test and challenge segregated facilities en route. I understand that I shall be participating in a non-violent protest against racial discrimination. That arrest or personal injury to me might result, and that by signing this application I waive all rights to damages against CORE, The Congress of Racial Equality, its directors, its officers, and any other sponsoring organization and all others in any way connected with the Freedom Ride. [Interviewer] Great. Yeah, um, why- w-why did you become a Freedom Rider? [Moore] Uh, that's a good one. Uh, it was simply because at that time, uh,- well before the rides actually came through I had thought earlier in the year when we knew there was going to be a Freedom Ride that, uh, we wanted to go to test the laws, to carry on what we'd been

doing, uh, with sit-ins and voter registration. But, uh, what happened when they got to Sumpter- [Interviewer] Let-Lemme cut for one second. [Moore] Too much? [Interviewer] Yeah- [Interviewer] Jerry Moore, why did you become a Freedom Rider? [Moore] 'Mkay. [Interviewer] Go. [Moore] Okay, I became a Freedom Rider because it was what needed to be done and they needed people to do it, uh, to stand up to challenging the laws of segregation, challenging the concepts of segregation, and we needed bodies on the line. [Interviewer] Why? Why you? Why at that time? [Moore] Why me at that time? I was there. Uh, it's-it's where the movement was at the time, you know? And uh, they needed people to- to challenge the laws, to- to stand up, you know? [Interviewer] No, I don't know. [chuckle] Tell me, what does that mean? [Moore] What does that mean? Uh, well, to stand up for our rights, oh, also the concept- the idea, you know, this was America, the land of the free, you know, democracy and, uh,

you had segregation and it was an institution that had to be challenged, had to be destroyed and torn down. You know? [Interviewer] Mhm, mhm, mhm- Great. Um, talk-talk to me just a little bit, and this is kind of just background stuff, and if you can, you have- kind of give me- just somebody- you know, and I again- [Moore] We're doing- uh, we were traveling- [Interviewer] Hold on one sec- [Moore] 'Kay. We were doing, uh, interstate travel traveling from one state to the other because you had different laws in the north, and- but when you cross over into south you- you faced, uh, Jim Crow, what they called Jim Crow in those days of segregation in where they would want blacks to ride in the back and they would separate the races. So, uh, according to federal law they weren't allowed to do that. So, uh, also they had segregated, uh, restaurants or bus stops a lot of times for black people you had to go around to the back, uh, and you weren't able to use-- you had to use two separate restrooms. Our water fountains inferior water fountains, and, uh, so what we were doing was saying that had to change,

we weren't gonna do that anymore, we weren't gonna go for that anymore, you know, we weren't gonna shuffle around to the back. You know, we were going through the front door and, uh, we knew we would be arrested but, uh, those with, uh, [chuckle] s-smarter minds and better insight knew that, uh, we want to test the laws and bring it to the- to not only to- to the American people but to the courts, and that, by law, if people wouldn't do it through conscience we'd do it by law. [Interviewer] Mhm. Um, okay I- one of the things I w- I want to try to get from y-you th-there Jerry is- is also like just the nuts and bolts- I mean, I know [Moore] Oh, okay, I'm going too far- [Interviewer] -not what you're trying to change. Not- I guess the question would be, what did you do on the Freedom Ride? [Moore] Okay, right, right- [Moore] What we did was when we got on the buses in the groups, we uh- the whites in the group would sit in the back and the blacks would sit in the front and we'd mix and force people when they came on the bus to- to mix, to sit in different places rather just, you know, than the bus being segregated, they walked into, uh, a de-segregated

environment- area. And, uh, for the counters we just went in to sit down at the lunch counters and demanded to be served. [Interviewer] Uh, okay. Um, cut for a second. One thing that I want, ?want to try and know-? what did you think would happen when you joined the Freedom Riders, I mean, what did you think would happen to you and to the other Freedom Riders when you joined the- the Freedom Rides? [Moore] All the possibilities were there. Uh- [Interviewer] Lemme ask you- lemme ask you again to- to start over right there, because, again, my question is not going to be there. So you have to kind of say, "When I joined the Freedom Rides I didn't know what was going to happen," or, "I thought we would go through the south and- and take a couple of weeks and everything would be fine," or "I had a lot of fear because I knew-" You know- but, but it- [talking over each other] so- so what did you think? Um, can you do me a big favor? Could you either sit there or go back here so you're not- My question was- w-what-what did you think? [Moore] 'Kay, when I went on the ride I was

thinking we knew there was a possibility that might go to jail, we knew we'd be testing, figured there'd be violence, uh, didn't know- might even be killed, you know. [Interviewer] Mkay. Uh, [Interviewer] So because other people have said to us they didn't think [inaudible] was like, you know, we thought, you know "we might face a little-- and might go to jail," or "might be a couple problems but--" they weren't-- that we thought th-that what happened was going to happen. Did you have any idea o-of-of the level of resistance that you would meet? [Moore] The fact that a couple people weren't with the ride when it got to, uh, Sumpter, they knew that the possibilities that for all we knew that they'd been lynched, killed, whatever, or in jail and we all just knew that someone had to pick the gauntlet up.