New Mexico in Focus; 717; Jonathan Laurence, Tajiks, Jesse Tyler Ferguson

PRODUCTION OF "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS" PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION. >> THIS WEEK ON "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS" WE TALK WITH ALBUQUERQUE'S OWN MODERN FAMILY STAR, JESSE TYLER FERGUSON. >> I DO COMEDY. I AM NOT A SERIOUS GUY. I FEEL LIKE YOU CAN GET A LOT DONE WITH COMEDY AND WITH HUMOR AND A LIGHT TOUCH. >> PLUS A CULTURAL EXCHANGE WITH TWO CITIZENS OF TAJIKISTAN. >> "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS" STARTS NOW. >> THE ALBUQUERQUE COUNCIL FOR INTERNATIONAL VISITORS AIMS TO FOSTER GLOBAL UNDERSTANDING BY BRINGING INTERNATIONAL EMERGING LEADERS AND THEIR LOCAL COUNTERPARTS TOGETHER TO DISCUSS COMMON INTERESTS AND SHARE IDEAS. WE WELCOME TWO VISITORS FROM TAJIKISTAN TO OUR STUDIO FOR A CULTURAL EXCHANGE. ALSO COMING UP IS AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH ALBUQUERQUE'S OWN JESSE TYLER FERGUSON. THE MODERN FAMILY STAR WAS IN TOWN LAST MONTH IN SUPPORT OF MARRIAGE EQUALITY AND HE TOOK TIME FROM A BUSY SCHEDULE TO

TALK ABOUT THAT ISSUE AND ABOUT HIS SUCCESS IN A TOUGH FIELD. BUT FIRST, NMIF CORRESPONDENT FURHANA AFRID INTERVIEWS JONATHAN LAURENCE AUTHOR OF THE EMANCIPATION OF EUROPES MUSLIMS. THE BOOK TRACES HOW GOVERNMENTS ACROSS WESTERN EUROPE HAVE RESPONDED TO THE GROWING PRESENCE OF MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS IN THE COUNTRIES OVER THE PAST 15 YEARS. LAURENCE IS HERE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE ALBUQUERQUE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION'S FALL LECTURE SERIES WHICH HAS BEEN FOCUSING ON POLITICAL ISLAM. >> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS". BOSTON COLLEGE AND YOU HAVE EXTENSIVELY EXAMINED THE INTEGRATION OF MUSLIMS INTO EUROPEAN POLITICS AND SOCIETY. MANY PEOPLE ARE PESSIMISTIC ABOUT THAT PROCESS OF INTEGRATION. WHY ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC? >> WELL, I AM CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC BECAUSE THESE ARE PROCESSES THAT TAKE TIME AND THE HOST SOCIETY TO UNDERSTAND ITSELF AS A MIGRATION SOCIETY.

THAT HAS NOT COME NATURALLY TO ALL EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. FORMER EMPIRES HAD A SLIGHTLY EASIER TIME IMAGINING THEMSELVES AS PART OF A LARGER NATIONAL FABRIC, BUT THERE ARE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT DID NOT HAVE THAT IMPERIAL PAST AND DID NOT CONSIDER THEMSELVES COUNTRIES OF IMMIGRATION. RATHER WERE SENDING OUT IMMIGRANTS LIKE GERMANY OR ITALY IN THE 19TH CENTURY, SO THEY ARE VERY SURPRISED TO FIND THEMSELVES NOW MIGRATION SOCIETIES AND THAT TAKES TIME. IT HAS ALWAYS TAKEN TIME, INCLUDING FOR NON-MUSLIMS IN EUROPE AS WELL AS, OF COURSE, IN THE AMERICAN CONTEXT. >> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR RESEARCH. WHAT SORT OF EVIDENCE HAVE YOU FOUND THAT IS SHOWING THAT PERHAPS MUSLIMS ARE INTEGRATING BETTER INTO EUROPEAN SOCIETY? >> WELL, YOU CAN LOOK AT POLITICAL PARTICIPATION. YOU CAN LOOK AT THE FOUNDATION OF CIVIL SOCIETY; ORGANIZATIONS, CREATION OF PLACES OF WORSHIP.

A GOOD EXAMPLE WOULD BE THE RECENT ELECTION IN GERMANY, WHICH TOOK PLACE A COUPLE OF SUNDAYS AGO. THERE WERE 35 DEPUTIES OF MIGRANT ORIGIN WHO WERE ELECTED, INCLUDING 11 OF TURKISH ORIGIN ALONE. AND IF YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THAT THE NUMBER OF VOTERS OF TURKISH ORIGIN IN GERMANY IS ACTUALLY QUITE SMALL, BECAUSE CITIZENSHIP WAS SO HARD TO OBTAIN UNTIL TEN OR SO YEARS AGO. THAT IS ACTUALLY QUITE AN IMPRESSIVE RESULT AND YOU'LL FIND SIMILAR OUTCOMES IN LOCALITES IN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND IN THE ADMINISTRATION IN FRANCE, NOT YET SO MUCH IN THE LEGISLATURE. >> INTERESTING, YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS, YOU HAVE SEEN SOME MOVEMENT. WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES, SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, GERMANY, YOU MENTIONED FRANCE, ARE THEY COUNTRIES THAT YOU FOUND HAVE

LOOKED AT THE PROCESS OF IMMIGRATION IN A WAY THAT IS BETTER THAN OTHER COUNTRIES, YOU KNOW? IF SO, WHAT ARE THOSE COUNTRIES AND WHAT HAVE THEY DONE BETTER THAT HAVE MADE THEM MORE SUCCESSFUL? >> I THINK, EACH OF THESE POINT AT WHICH IT REALIZES IT HAS A PROBLEM; RIGHT? THIS IS THE FIRST STEP, IF YOU LIKE, TOWARDS CREATING POLICIES THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY IMPROVE INTEGRATION OUTCOMES. NOT EVERY COUNTRY ACCEPTED THE REALITY OF THE DIVERSITY THAT THEY HAD SEEN SPROUT UP AROUND THEM RATHER UNEXPECTEDLY. THEY DIDN'T PLAN TO BECOME -- YOU KNOW, FRANCE DIDN'T PLAN TO BECOME HOME OF A MILLION NORTH AFRICANS. IT SIMPLY LOST ITS LAST IMPERIAL BATTLE AND HAD TO FACE THE FACT THAT IT HAD A LABOR SHORTAGE AND NEEDED TO IMPORT LABOR FROM THE MOST

OBVIOUS SOURCES. GERMANY SIMILARLY ALWAYS HAD A GUEST WORKER MENTALITY VIS-A-VIS THE TURKISH MIGRANTS THAT IT WAS IMPORTING AND THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO ROTATE BACK. BUT, OBVIOUSLY, THEY STAYED, AND SO, IN EACH POINT, THERE IS A MOMENT WHERE THE MIGRANT COMMUNITY ITSELF DECIDES TO SETTLE. AND THEN THERE IS SOME LAG TIME WHEN THE STATE KIND OF CATCHES UP WITH THAT AND REALIZES THAT, PERHAPS, NOT ALL OF ITS INSTITUTIONS ARE EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH THE NEW POLICY PROBLEMS THAT COME UP WHEN YOU HAVE A MORE DIVERSE POPULATION. >> DIFFERENT COUNTRIES THAT ARE AT DIFFERENT STAGES IN THE IMMIGRATION PROCESS. IN YOUR STUDY, DID YOU FIND ANY ONE PARTICULAR COUNTRY THAT REALLY HAS A HANDLE ON THIS REALLY WELL, THAT YOU THOUGHT WAS SORT OF A SHINING BEACON OF THE IMMIGRATION PROCESS? AND IF SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS IT THAT THEY ARE DOING THAT IS REALLY IMPRESSIVE? >> IT WOULD BE GREAT IF THERE WERE AN ANSWER TO THAT. UNFORTUNATELY, THEY ARE AT SUCH DIFFERENT STAGES AND THEY

HAVE VERY DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES OF ORIGIN, SO IT IS A LITTLE BIT LIKE COMPARING APPLES AND ORANGES, RIGHT. IF YOU HAVE THE TURKISH COMMUNITY IN GERMANY WHICH HAD, IF YOU LIKE, A KIND OF MERCENARY RELATIONSHIP WITH GERMANY, COMING THERE SIMPLY TO MAKE MONEY INTENDING TO GO HOME, VERSUS THE FRENCH OR BRITISH EXPERIENCE WHERE YOU HAVE A SENSE OF BELONGING OF FORMER COLONIAL SUBJECTS WHO ARE EXPECTING TO BE INTEGRATED. I WOULD SAY THAT FRANCE HAS TAKEN THIS MATTER VERY SERIOUSLY IN PART BECAUSE OF ITS VERY SELF-CONSCIOUSLY SECULAR ATMOSPHERE, AND IT THEREFORE CAME INTO CONFLICT PERHAPS EARLIEST WITH SOME OF THE OUTWARD EXPRESSIONS OF MUSLIM -- AND BECAUSE THEY ARE AT THE FOREFRONT OF POLICY MAKING THEY HAVE COME THROUGH TRIAL AND ERROR TO SOME OF THE BETTER OUTCOMES BUT NOT BY INSTINCT AND NOT NATURALLY. >> YOU TALKED ABOUT FRANCE BEING AT THE FOREFRONT OF THE IMMIGRATION PROCESS.

I WANT TO GET YOUR RESPONSE TO A RECENT POLL DONE LAST YEAR BY AN ORGANIZATION IN 2012 OF OCTOBER LAST YEAR IN WHICH THEY SURVEYED MORE THAN 1700 PEOPLE IN FRANCE, AND 2/3 OF THOSE PEOPLE SAID THAT MUSLIMS WERE NOT INTEGRATING WELL IN FRENCH SOCIETY AND 68% OF THAT -- OF THOSE MAJORITY SAID THAT MUSLIMS SIMPLY REFUSED TO INTEGRATE, YOU KNOW. WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THAT? >> WELL, IT HAS BEEN A TOUGH 10 OR 15 YEARS. MUSLIMS BECAME VISIBLE IN SOCIETIES REALLY IN THE WORST CIRCUMSTANCES, WHICH IS TO SAY, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERRORISM. UP UNTIL 911, THESE GOVERNMENTS WERE AWARE THEY HAD MUSLIM MINORITIES, EVEN TOYED AROUND WITH POLICIES AIMED AT INTEGRATING THEM AND MAKING ISLAM ONE OF THE OFFICIAL RELIGIONS OF THE COUNTRIES SO THAT MOSQUES COULD BE BUILT.

BUT THEY DIDN'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY UNTIL 911 AND IN THAT CONTEXT, WHEN THE FOCUS BECAME UNDERSTANDABLY SECURITY ON RADICALIZATION, THAT WAS THE SUBJECT OF MOST MEDIA ACCOUNTS, BECAUSE THAT WAS FRANKLY WHAT WAS INTERESTING ABOUT THE MUSLIM COMMUNITIES, THE FACT THAT THEY HAD PRODUCED, IN A VERY SMALL NUMBER, THESE RADICAL POLITICAL RELIGIOUS ACTIVISTS WHO WENT ON TO, YOU KNOW, EXTREMELY MURDEROUS ACTIVITY AND SO, THAT WAS THE FIRST NEGATIVE FRAME THAT I THINK DIDN'T EXACTLY DISPOSE PEOPLE POSITIVELY TOWARDS THIS POPULATION. IF YOU ADD TO THAT, THEN, THE SORT OF CONFLICT OVER THE PLACE OF RELIGION IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE, MORE GENERALLY, AND ISLAM'S OWN SLOW COMING TO TERMS WITH SOME OF THE VERY THINGS THAT CHRISTIANITY IN ITS VARIOUS FORMS FACED IN THE

LAST CENTURY, YOU HAVE A KIND OF RESISTANCE TO WHAT EUROPE CAME AROUND TO OVER A VERY LONG PERIOD OF TIME. AND THAT IS THE GRADUAL REMOVAL OF OUTWARD SIGNS OF RELIGIOSITY, THE GRADUAL REMOVAL OF RELIGION FROM THE PUBLIC SPHERE AND FOR MUSLIMS, COMING FROM COUNTRIES WHERE YOU HAVE RELIGION EVERYWHERE, WHERE THE STATE IS INTRICATELY INVOLVED WITH THE RELIGIOUS LIFE OF ITS CITIZENS, THERE IS A NATURAL CONFLICT THERE. WHETHER IT IS ABOUT HEAD SCARVES OR GIRLS PARTICIPATING IN PHYSICAL EDUCATION OR AVAILABILITY OF HALAL FOOD, EACH OF THESE ISSUES IS RELIGION IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE AND THAT LEAVES A BAD TASTE IN A LOT OF SO-CALLED NATIVES MINDS. >> LET ME GO BACK TO THAT A WITH YOU, BECAUSE YOU TALKED -- WE TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE ISSUES ON HIJAB THAT

YOU MENTIONED AND HALAL MEAT AND ET CETERA. SOME PEOPLE SAY THAT, LOOK, YOU KNOW, ISLAMIC CULTURAL PRACTICES ARE, LOOK, INCOMPATIBLE WITH WESTERN DEMOCRACY VALUES. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE DIFFICULTIES AND CHALLENGES YOURSELF, INSEPARABILITY BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE. WHAT EUROPEANS SEE AS FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS SEEN BY SOME MUSLIMS AS DEEPLY OFFENSIVE. YOU CAN'T EVEN QUESTION OR CRITICIZE ISLAM. THAT IS JUST SOMETHING THAT THEY WON'T ENCOURAGE DOING. YOU TALKED ABOUT MORE RIGHTS FOR WOMEN, FOR EXAMPLE, HOW DOES EUROPE GO ABOUT RECONCILING THESE HOT BUTTON ISSUES THAT IS REALLY SORT OF IT IS TRYING TO MARRY A SYSTEM THAT IS SO DIFFERENT WHERE RELIGION IS DEEPLY INGRAINED IN ALMOST EVERYTHING AND TRY AND INTEGRATE AND PERHAPS MAKE SURE THAT THE SYSTEM IS FREE AND FAIR FOR EVERYBODY.

>> YES. THE PERSPECTIVE -- THESE ARE PERSPECTIVE THAT EUROPEAN SOCIETIES VERSUS SAY THEIR MUSLIM COMMUNITIES HAVE ON THESE ISSUES ARE VERY DIFFERENT. AND BEGINNING WITH THE RUSHDIE AFFAIR, GOING BACK TO '89, WHEN THE AUTHOR, SALMAN RUSHDIE PUBLISHED THE SATANIC VERSES AND WAS ACCUSED OF BLASPHEMY BY THE AYATOLLAH, CALLING FOR HIS MURDER. AND THERE WAS A POSITIVE ECHO IN SOME CORNERS OF THE UNITED KINGDOM, SOME CORNERS OF FRANCE. THERE WERE SOME DEMONSTRATIONS. WHAT THE BRITISH MUSLIMS POSITION WAS THAT ISLAM SHOULD BE PROTECTED TO THE SAME EXTENT THAT ANGLICANISM IS FROM BLASPHEMY. THERE HAS BEEN A BLASPHEMY LAW ON THE BOOKS FOR ANGLICANISM AND THAT SHOULD ALSO PROTECT ISLAM. PARTLY A PROBLEM JUST NOT UNDERSTANDING IT TAKES TIME TO WIN EQUIVALENT RIGHTS IN A SOCIETY.

YOU JUST DON'T ARRIVE AND HAVE EVERYTHING SORT OF READY FOR YOU. >> IS THAT A REALISTIC EXPECTATION? I MEAN, WE IN AMERICA AND EUROPE, TO SOME EXTENT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN FREELY DEBATE PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING, I CAN TELL YOU AS A MUSLIM IF I DARED EXPLORE OR CRITICIZE THE KORAN, I WOULD BE IN LOTS OF TROUBLE. SO HOW DO YOU BRING PEOPLE ALONG IN THE PROCESS AND REALLY GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO DEBATE THINGS LIKE RELIGIOUS PRACTICES, WITHOUT BEING FEARFUL FOR YOUR LIFE? >> WELL, THE ANSWER IS UNSATISFYING. YOU HAVE TO WAIT A LITTLE BIT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE TIME THAT PASSED BETWEEN THE RUSHDIE AFFAIR AND SAY THE MOHAMMED CARICATURE AFFAIR, THE CARTOON AFFAIR THAT TOOK PLACE IN 2006, 2007, WHEN THERE WAS OUTRAGE AROUND THE GLOBE TO THE CARICATURES THAT A DANISH CARTOONIST HAD MADE OF THE PROFIT. AND ALMOST ALL OF THE VIOLENCE THAT TOOK PLACE, IN FACT ALL

THE VIOLENCE THAT TOOK PLACE WITH EXCEPTION OF ONE ATTEMPTED ASSASSINATION IN DENMARK ITSELF, WAS EITHER IN LIBYA OR IN PAKISTAN OR IN THE WEST BANK OR IN OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE GOVERNMENTS USED THE OPPORTUNITY TO BASICALLY DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THEIR OWN SHORTCOMINGS AND DRAW ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY SAW AS THE WEST'S HYPOCRISY. BUT IF YOU LOOK IN EUROPE AND COMPARE 2006, PROFIT CARTOONS TO THE 1989 RUSHDIE AFFAIR, YOU SEE A DIFFERENT SET OF OUTCOMES. WHEREAS IN 1989, THERE WERE MUSLIM LEADERS WHO WERE FIREBRANDS CALLING FOR THE WINDOWS OF BOOK STORES TO BE BROKEN; CALLING FOR THE BURNING OF BOOKS, BRINGING ALL SORTS OF BAD MEMORIES BACK. 25 YEARS LATER, WHEN RESPONDING TO A SIMILAR AFFRONT ON THEIR RELIGION AND ON THE PUBLIC IMAGE OF THEIR

RELIGION, THEY WERE NOT DEMONSTRATING IN THE STREETS, THEY WERE FILING LAWSUITS, THEY WERE LOBBYING. THEY WERE TAKING INSTITUTIONAL ROUTES TO PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS. AND, LIKE IT OR NOT, THAT IS AN OPTION IN WESTERN DEMOCRACIES. RELIGIOUS COMMUNITIES ARE ALLOWED TO DEFEND THEIR IMAGE. JEWISH OBVIOUSLY WITH ALL THE TIME IN THE FACE OF ANTISEMITISM, CATHOLIC GROUPS HAVE FOUND OFFENSE IN MODERN ADVERTISING. WE CAN TALK ABOUT EXAMPLES, BUT EACH COMMUNITY AVAILS THEMSELVES OF THE INSTITUTIONS OF THE STATE, IDEALLY, AND DOESN'T TAKE MATTERS INTO THEIR OWN HANDS. SO THE VIGILANTISM THAT UNDOUBTEDLY EXISTS HOPEFULLY WANING AND THE INSTITUTIONALIZATION AND GRIEVANCES AT THE SIDE OF INTEGRATION, I FIND IS INCREASING. >> IT SEEMS TO ME THERE IS STILL A LOT OF PROGRESS THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE IN THAT AREA, BECAUSE WE STILL DON'T HAVE ENOUGH STRONG VOICES TO SHIFT THE WIND IN THE DIRECTION

WHERE PEOPLE CAN BE OPEN AND CAN BE CRITICAL OF THEIR OWN FAITH. I THINK THERE IS STILL A LOT OF MOVEMENT THAT STILL NEEDS TO BE DONE AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT A LOT OF MODERATE MUSLIMS WANT TO SEE CHANGE AND ARE ASKING FOR THAT, TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO BE CRITICAL, TO ANALYZE ISSUES AND DEBATE. LET'S GO BACK TO SOMETHING THAT YOU HAD MENTIONED ABOUT GLOBAL TERRORISM. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WORLD, WE SEE THERE IS STILL A GREAT DEAL OF CONCERN IN THE AREA OF TERRORISM. WE LOOK AT JUST LONDON AND MADRID IN THE LAST DECADE, YOU HAD THE TRAIN BOMBINGS AND MOST RECENTLY IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS, WE HAD ONE ATTACK IN KENYA. DID THESE ATTACKS, THESE DAMAGING EVENTS HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE CURRENT INTEGRATION PROCESS IN EUROPE? >> THEY DO IN THE SENSE THAT YOU DESCRIBED EARLIER WITH THE POLL RESULTS THEY TEND TO REINFORCE THE IMAGE OF THE ISLAMIC COMMUNITY AS INHERENTLY VIOLENT AND

INTOLERANT. AND OBVIOUSLY THAT EXISTS IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD. THERE IS NO REASON TO DENY IT AND IT EXISTS WITHIN ISLAM WITHIN EUROPE. THE QUESTION IS HOW YOU RESPOND TO IT. THE RESPONSE WHEN I THINK DONE PRODUCTIVELY, WILL TRY TO REASSURE THESE COMMUNITIES THAT THEIR BASIC RIGHTS ARE, INDEED, PROTECTED AND EQUAL TO THOSE OF OTHER CITIZENS. AND -- THIS IS NOT TO EXCUSE ANYTHING BUT I THINK THAT IT IS OFTEN WHEN THERE IS A SENSE THAT THERE IS NOT THE BASIC EQUALITY THAT YOU HAVE MORE SILENCE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY WHEN EXTREMISTS ACT OUT, BECAUSE THEY FEEL THAT THEY DON'T HAVE ANY SURE FOOTING IN THE COUNTRY THEY ARE LIVING IN AND THEY DON'T WANT TO ADD TO THE STIGMATIZATION OF THEIR COMMUNITIES AND THIS LEADS TO A REALLY NEGATIVE CYCLE THAT REINFORCES ITSELF.

WHEREAS, IF YOU CAN GUARANTEE BASIC RIGHTS, RIGHT, SO DON'T BAN MINARETS, DON'T BAN HEAD SCARVES, CIRCUMCISION OF BOYS. IF YOU CAN ASSURE THIS COMMUNITY THAT THEY WILL ENJOY THE SAME RELIGIOUS RIGHTS AS THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS, YOU WILL FIND THAT THEY WILL BE A LOT MORE CONFIDENT ABOUT SPEAKING ABOUT THE MARGINAL EXTREME PRACTICES. TAKE THE BURQA, FOR EXAMPLE. THERE WAS A HUGE TO DO ABOUT THE BURQA IN FRANCE FOR OVER A YEAR-AND-A-HALF. HOW MANY WOMEN EVER WORE THE BURQA? AROUND 2,000. 500 OF THEM OUTSIDE OF METROPOLITAN FRANCE, HALF OF THE REMAINDER, CONVERTS TO ISLAM IN FRANCE. SO, THE BURQA IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT ENRAGES EVERYONE. IT IS HARD TO FIND A DEFENDER OF THE BURQA BUT IT IS ALSO A GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW SOMETHING CAN CAST PUBLIC IMAGINATION AND HAVING LITTLE TO DO WITH REALITY. WHILE ONE SHOULD CONDEMN WITH ONE HAND, ONE ALSO NEEDS TO SUGGEST THAT THERE IS SPACE

FOR, IF YOU WANT TO CALL THE REASONABLE OR MODERATE PRACTICE OF RELIGION, AS WELL. UNTIL THAT IS DONE, I THINK YOU WILL FIND A MORE STANDOFFISH RELATIONSHIP, UNFORTUNATELY. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AGAIN, TODAY. AND IF YOU WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THIS ISSUE, THE BOOK IS THE EMANCIPATION OF EUROPE'S MUSLIMS, BY JONATHAN LAURENCE. HE SPOKE IN ALBUQUERQUE EARLIER THIS MONTH AS PART OF THE ALBUQUERQUE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION'S POLITICAL ISLAM LECTURE SERIES. THE NEXT SPEAKER, RICHARD NORTON WILL BE HERE ON NOVEMBER 1 TO DISCUSS THE SUNNI AND SHIITE DIVIDE IN THE WAKE OF THE ARAB SPRING. FOR MORE INFORMATION GO TO THE FACEBOOK PAGE OR ALBUQUERQUEINTERNATIONAL.ORG. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. >> I AM HOPING FOR, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TO LOOK AT ME AND THINK GAY FIRST. I WANT THEM TO THINK OF ME AS

MARRIED OR FATHER OR PARTNER OR AS A HUSBAND, AS A GREAT ACTOR AND AS A FUNNY PERSON AND THEN GAY IS LIKE SEVENTH OR EIGHTH DOWN ON THE LIST. >> THE ALBUQUERQUE COUNCIL FOR INTERNATIONAL VISITORS PROMOTES GLOBAL UNDERSTANDING THROUGH CITIZEN DIPLOMACY. THEY RECENTLY COORDINATED A DELEGATION FROM TAJIKISTAN THAT THAT WAS HERE IN A PROFESSIONAL EXCHANGE VISIT THROUGH THE OPEN WORLD PROGRAM. OPEN WORLD WORKS TO ENHANCE COOPERATION BETWEEN THE U.S. AND COUNTRIES OF EURASIA. NMIF PRODUCER MEGAN KAMERICK SAT DOWN TWO TAJIK DELEGATES AND A MEMBER OF THE ALBUQUERQUE COUNCIL. I AM HERE WITH FARANGIZ MAMADIYEVA AND KAMIL ARESHOV AND KAREN SCHAFER, A MEMBER OF THE ALBUQUERQUE COUNCIL OF INTERNATIONAL VISITORS. WHICH COORDINATES THESE CULTURAL EXCHANGES WITH U.S. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. I WANT TO START WITH YOU. TALK ABOUT THE SITUATION FOR YOUNG PEOPLE IN YOUR COUNTRY.

A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF YOUR POPULATION IS UNDER 25. HOW DOES THAT IMPACT YOUR SOCIETY? WHAT KIND OF HOPES AND DREAMS DO THEY HAVE FOR THEIR FUTURE? >> FIRST OF ALL, MAYBE I CAN TO TELL SOME BRIEF WORDS ABOUT IT IS A COUNTRY IN CENTRAL ASIA, VERY SMALL ONE AND WE ARE A DEVELOPING COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, AS YOU MENTIONED, IN FACT, WE HAVE A LOT OF POPULATION WHICH IS YOUTH BUT I THINK THAT THEY HAVE THE SAME DREAMS LIKE EVERY YOUTH IN EVERY COUNTRY. IT IS LIKE EDUCATION, JOB OPPORTUNITIES, HAVING A DECENT LIFE. SO, I THINK THE DREAMS ARE THE SAME BUT MAYBE JUST WE HAVE DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES. >> AND, TELL ME ABOUT WHAT KIND OF WORK YOU DO IN THAT TAJIKISTAN WITH YOUNG PEOPLE. >> I WORK IN DUSHANBE -- >> THE CAPITAL. >> I WORK IN THE CAPITAL AS A SENIOR PROGRAM MANAGER AT

EURASIA FOUNDATION OF CENTRAL ASIA, TAJIKISTAN. IT IS A LOCAL RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION. IT IS BASED IN DC, WASHINGTON DC. AND OUR ORGANIZATION WORKS IN THE FIELD OF CIVIC DEVELOPMENT AND PARTICULARLY WITH YOUTH DEVELOPMENT. >> DOES THAT MEAN -- WHAT DOES THAT FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO GET THEM ENGAGED. >> YES. BECAUSE A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE WHOSE PARENTS LACK ACCESS TO EDUCATION FOR EXAMPLE AND SOMETIMES LACK ACCESS TO INTERNET AND WE TRY TO INVOLVE THEM IN CITIZEN DEVELOPMENT, BECAUSE MOST OF THEM, JUST LIKE OUT OF THIS, AND THEY WANT THEIR VOICES TO BE HEARD AND -- >> YOU'RE A FAIRLY LONG DEMOCRACY. >> OF COURSE, JUST WE CAME DEMOCRACY LIKE 20 AGO, MORE THAN 20 YEARS AGO. THAT IS REALLY BAD EXPERIENCE WE HAD, LIKE, REALLY TOUGH FOR THE COUNTRY AND JUST LIKE STOPPED DEVELOPMENT FOR MANY YEARS.

>> CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR WORK IN TAJIKISTAN WITH YOUNG PEOPLE. >> MY WORK, I WORK IS PROVIDING SUPPORT FOR WITH DISABILITIES AND ALSO YOUNG PEOPLE THAT BECAME WITHOUT ANY PARENTS WHO PARENTS WENT TO WORK IN RUSSIA. >> A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE GO TO WORK IN RUSSIA. >> YES, APPROXIMATELY 2 MILLION OF OUR POPULATION IS WORKING IN RUSSIA. >> THAT IS OUT OF 8 MILLION PEOPLE. >> BUT THE PROBLEM IS IT DEPENDS ON THEIR FAMILIES, FOR EXAMPLE, SOME OF THEM ABANDONED FOREVER AND DON'T SEND THEM MONEY. SO THEY WORKING ALSO WITH THESE FAMILIES, WHO BECOME ALONE. >> YOU HAVE ORPHANAGES AND SOMETIMES THOSE ARE CHILDREN WITHOUT PARENTS AND SOMETIMES PARENTS PUT THEM THERE, THE

MOTHERS PUT THERE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T TAKE CARE OF THEM. >> MOTHERS PUT THEIR CHILDREN TO ORPHANAGE BECAUSE THEY CANNOT PROVIDE THEM ALONE. MOTHER HAS TO WORK REALLY HARD AND SHE HAS FOUR CHILDREN AND SHE HAVE TO PUT SOME OF THEM TO THE ORPHANAGE AND SO WE TRY TO ALSO SUPPORT THE CHILDRENS. >> THE WORK THAT YOU BOTH DO, DOES THE GOVERNMENT FUND IT? DO YOU HAVE TO FIND PRIVATE SOURCES OF MONEY OR INTERNATIONAL? >> WE HAVE CHARITY ORGANIZATION, NAMED HELPING HAND, SO, WE HAVEN'T ANY FINANCIAL SUPPORT FROM THE GOVERNMENT BUT WE TRY TO GET LOANS SUPPORTING FROM GOVERNMENT, BUT OUR FOUNDATION COME FROM PRIVATE PEOPLES' CASH AND FROM CHARITY BOXES AND AFTER COLLECTING THE MONEY, WE ARE PROVIDE BY THIS

MONEY, IN ORPHANAGES. >> KAREN, I WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE THEY ARE HERE WITH THIS EXCHANGE PROGRAM. >> YES. >> I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS. WHY DO YOU BRING THESE GROUPS HERE. >> WE THINK IT IS A PRIVILEGE TO BRING THEM HERE. THE OPEN WORLD PROGRAM IS CENTRAL ASIA TO THE UNITED STATES TO GET A FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE WITH THE AMERICAN DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM. AND, SO, THEY MEET WITH THE SENATORS OFFICE WHEN THEY WERE IN WASHINGTON. WE GO TO LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL IN SANTA FE TOMORROW AND THEY MET WITH A CITY COUNCILOR YESTERDAY, SO THEY GET A LOOK AT ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT. BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT, THEY ALSO -- OUR ROLE IS TO PROVIDE THE PROGRAMS THAT ARE IN CONJUNCTION WITH WHAT THEY ARE WORKING ON IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY. >> THEY ARE YOUR MEETING THEIR COUNTERPARTS. >> MEETING COUNTERPARTS HERE AND THE REAL HOPE OF THE DESIGN IS THAT WE WILL LEARN

FROM THEM AS WELL AS THEY WILL LEARN FROM US, SO, THEY ARE MEETING WITH ALL KINDS OF ORGANIZATIONS IN ALBUQUERQUE THAT WORK WITH YOUNG PEOPLE. AND, WE'RE ALSO LISTENING TO WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY BECAUSE THEY ARE DEALING WITH MANY OF THE SAME PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH. >> EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE A DEVELOPING COUNTRY. >> WE HAVE PEOPLE HERE IN NEW MEXICO, YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED, YES, AND IN THE ALBUQUERQUE COUNCIL IS THE ORGANIZATION THAT BRINGS THEM HERE AND WE ARE ONE OF 92 ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO DO THE INTERNATIONAL EXCHANGES IN THE BELIEF THAT CITIZEN DIPLOMACY OR INVOLVEMENT OF CITIZENS CAN BRING ABOUT WORLD PEACE. >> THIS IS THE FIRST TRIP TO THE UNITED STATES FOR BOTH OF YOU. >> YES. >> CAN YOU GIVE ME AN IDEA OF SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED IN THE LAST WEEK, ANYTHING THAT STANDS OUT. >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THANKS TO KAREN FOR ARRANGING ALL OF THIS. IT WAS A GREAT EXPERIENCE TO

SEE HOW DOES IT WORK IN NEW MEXICO AND LIKE MENTIONED WE HAVE SOME OF THE SAME PROBLEMS ESPECIALLY CONNECTED WITH YOUTH. SO, ONE OF THE MOST AMAZING EXPERIENCE PROBABLY WAS HOW YOU ALL INVOLVE SCHOOLS, LIKE EARLY CHILDHOOD DEVELOPMENT, FOR EXAMPLE, AT SCHOOL, A LOT OF PROGRAMS LIKE AT THE BOSQUE SCHOOL, I WAS REALLY HAPPY TO KNOW ABOUT SERVICE LEARNING PROGRAM. >> WHERE THE KIDS GO OUT AND VOLUNTEER. >> THAT WAS AMAZING PROJECT I EVER SAW AND ACTUALLY THIS IS A COUPLE IDEAS I WANT TO TRY TO IMPLEMENT PROBABLY IN OUR COUNTRY. WE'LL SEE HOW IT WOULD WORK. >> INTERESTING, WHAT ABOUT YOU? >> I SURPRISED THAT HERE PEOPLE LIVING ACCORDING TO THE RULE. >> LIVING ACCORDING TO THE RULE. >> BECAUSE, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE DRIVING RULES AND DON'T IN OUR COUNTRY, ACCORDING TO

THE RULES, IT IS PROBLEM. >> THEY DON'T FOLLOW TRAFFIC RULES. >> DON'T FOLLOW, AND ALSO HERE AMERICANS ARE ON TIME AND DON'T SPEAK TOO MUCH. AND ALSO, THE ATTITUDE BETWEEN NORMAL PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES. IN OUR COUNTRY, MAYBE IT HAS BECOME PROBLEM, BUT HERE AFTER THAT WE SEE HOW YOU MAKE IT, WISH TO MAKE IT ALSO IN OUR COUNTRY. >> YOU MEAN, PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES ARE PART OF THE -- [MULTIPLE VOICES] >> HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT IN THAT TAJIKISTAN, ARE THEY OFF TO THE SIDE. >> PEOPLE IN TAJIKISTAN WITH DISABILITIES HAVE MANY PROBLEMS, FOR EXAMPLE, PROBLEMS WITH -- >> THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS NOT PREPARED FOR THEM EVEN IF THEY WANT TO WALK IN THE STREET, UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T HAVE ALL THIS KIND OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR THEM, JUST TO EVEN CROSS

THE STREET FOR PEDESTRIANS. >> REALLY. >> AND TO STUDY AT SCHOOLS. >> DISABILITIES CAN'T STUDY. >> WHAT DO THEY DO -- >> THEY READ IN NETWORKS WITH DISABILITIES. >> SPECIAL ORGANIZATIONS WHO WORK WITH KIDS WITH DISABILITIES, FOR EXAMPLE. I USED TO WORK FOR ONE OF THEM. ONE OF MY PROJECT WAS CREATE SOLAR GARDEN FOR KIDS WITH DISABILITY IN THE CENTER, WHO HELPS MOTHERS WITH CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES, TO DEVELOP AND TRY TO TEACH THEM SOME SKILLS, FOR EXAMPLE, AND THEY WERE TRYING TO WORK WITH IT, BUT IT IS LIKE REALLY DIFFICULT, BECAUSE, LIKE, KAMIL SAID, INFRASTRUCTURE IS NOT THERE. THEY DROP OUT FROM SOCIETY AND I THINK IT IS ALSO LIKE MENTALITY SAYING THAT MOST PEOPLE FEEL SORRY TO THEM. THEY DON'T FEEL THAT THEY EQUAL. I THINK IT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS, BECAUSE WE

DON'T TREAT THEM LIKE THEY ARE THE SAME. IT DOESN'T MATTER, IF HE WALKS WITH A WHEELCHAIR AND I WALK WITH MY FEET, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT IS FINE. >> DID YOU, IN VISITING HERE, DID YOU GET IDEAS TO TAKE BACK. YOU MENTIONED THE BOSQUE SCHOOL. >> WE VISITED NEW MEXICO CHILDREN NETWORK WHICH IS VERY GOOD SYSTEM. AND, FOR OUR ORGANIZATION, IT IS GOOD EXPERIENCE. >> WHAT DO THEY DO THAT YOU LIKE? >> FOR EXAMPLE, WE LIKE THAT IT IS TRYING TO GIVE CHILDREN TO THE FAMILIES. YOU HAVEN'T HERE ORPHANAGES, ADOPTING FAMILY, THEY HAD SYSTEM, THEY MAKING -- PROTECT THEIR RIGHTS. IN OUR COUNTRY ADOPTING CHILDRENS IS NOT SO DEVELOPED SYSTEM. WE WISH TO TRY TO MAKE THE SYSTEM AND TO MAKE THE ORPHANS

NUMBER SHORT. >> I KNOW MAYBE IT IS NOT PERFECT, THERE IS PROBLEMS WITH IT, BUT WAY BETTER THAN TO KEEP CHILDREN IN ORPHANAGES, NOT LIKE IN OUR KIDS THEY ALL GROUP IN ONE HUGE BUILDING, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE FEELING OF FAMILY. THAT IS OF COURSE, INFLUENCE LIKE YOUNG CHILD, TO HELP PSYCHOLOGY. >> IN OUR COUNTRY, THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO ENLARGE THIS NUMBER. >> YOU HAVE LEARNED IN THE LAST WEEK, I THINK, THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE IN AMERICA AND NEW MEXICO, WE HAVE A LOT OF POVERTY, WE HAVE A LOT OF SOCIAL PROBLEMS. I AM GATHERING THERE ARE SIMILAR ISSUES IN TAJIKISTAN. DID YOU HEAR POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS HERE TO ANY OF THESE PROBLEMS THAT MIGHT WORK?

>> WE SPEAK ABOUT, LIKE, DRUG ABUSE OR ALCOHOL ABUSE. IN OUR COUNTRY, MAYBE IT IS NOT SO HIGH LIKE HERE, FOR EXAMPLE, BECAUSE, LIKE, IT IS A MUSLIM COUNTRY AND ACTUALLY IT IS ISLAM, PROHIBITED TO DRINK ALCOHOL, FOR EXAMPLE. OKAY. WE ARE STILL A SECULAR STATE AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DRINK ALCOHOL BUT NOT LIKE ALCOHOLISM AND ACTUALLY, YOU WILL NEVER SEE A CHILD LIKE 16 OR 15 YEARS OLD COMING TO THE STORE AND BUYING A BEER, IT IS JUST LIKE NOT ACCEPTABLE. THEY SMOKE, THAT IS LIKE A REGULAR CIGARETTES, BUT NOT ALSO LIKE TOO MUCH. KIDS IN RIO GRANDE HIGH SCHOOL, WHERE WE VISITED YESTERDAY, THEY WERE REALLY SURPRISED TO KNOW ABOUT THAT AND FOR THEM TO GO LIKE WOW. >> BECAUSE THEY ARE USED TO DRUGS AND ALCOHOL BEING MORE WIDELY AVAILABLE. >> ALSO, EXISTS -- WE HAVEN'T -- ALSO WE SAW IN YOUR SCHOOLS, THE BULLYING.

IN OUR COUNTRY, BULLYING IS MAYBE ALSO IS PRESENT BUT WE SOLVE IT IMMEDIATELY. IF SOME STUDENTS BULLY ANOTHER, THAT IS WHEN YOU CALL HIS FATHER OR BROTHERS AND THEY DECIDE IT IMMEDIATELY, BUT NOT BY SHERIFF. >> IT IS NOT IN THAT EXTREME LEVEL LIKE IT IS HERE. >> DID YOU THINK YOU HAVE MET WITH THEM, TOO, THEIR VISIT, DO THEY HAVE SOLUTIONS OR IDEAS FROM TAJIKISTAN THAT YOU THINK WE CAN LEARN FROM HERE? >> I THINK THE LESSON THAT I WHICH HAS BEEN VERY RICH IS THAT WE ARE EXTREMELY FORTUNATE IN THE U.S. AND IT IS A GOOD REMINDER. THEY ARE DEALING WITH DEPRIVATION IN WAYS THAT WE HAVE LONG SINCE PASSED, EVEN OUR POORER PEOPLE.

FOR INSTANCE, ONE OF THE DELEGATES IN HIS TOWN, SMALL MOUNTAINOUS REGION, THERE IS ONE PLACE WHERE YOU CAN GET ACCESS TO THE INTERNET. SO, I THINK THAT WHAT I LEARNED IS THAT WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE OUR GOVERNMENT TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE PROGRAMS IN THESE COUNTRIES BECAUSE THEY ARE REALLY MAKING A HUGE DIFFERENCE AND WE FORGET SOMETIMES HOW FORTUNATE WE ARE. >> INTERESTING. AND, WHAT OTHER DELEGATIONS WILL YOU HAVE COMING IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS? >> WE HAVE THEM HERE FROM PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES RIGHT NOW. WE HAVE A QUITE A LARGE NUMBER FROM EGYPT AND EXPECTING MORE. I HAVE BEEN SO INVOLVED WITH PLANNING THIS ONE, I CAN'T ACTUALLY TELL YOU THE NEXT GROUP THAT IS COMING IN BUT I KNOW WE HAVE THREE. >> WE CAN PUT THE ORGANIZATION ON THE FACEBOOK PAGE IF PEOPLE WANT TO FIND OUT. >> ABSOLUTELY.

ABQCOUNCIL.ORG. >> ABQCOUNCIL.ORG. >> I APPRECIATE YOU COMING AND SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH US. WE'RE GLAD THAT YOU COULD COME VISIT TO NEW MEXICO. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> OUR POPULAR ARTS AND CULTURE PROGRAM, COLORES, CAN BE SEEN FRIDAY NIGHT AT 9:00 P.M. TONIGHT PHOTOGRAPHER IAN RUHTER SHARES HIS EXPERIENCE PHOTOGRAPHING NEW MEXICO USING 19TH CENTURY AND TRAVELING ACROSS AMERICA IN A TRUCK THAT ALSO SERVES AS HIS CAMERA. HERE IS A TASTE OF TONIGHT'S PROGRAM. >> PHOTOGRAPHY IS LIKE A PASSPORT ON THE WORLD AND THIS TRUCK HAS OPENED UP SO MANY

DOORS AND ALLOWED ME TO MEET SO MANY PEOPLE AND IT IS LIKE A BIG MAGNET AND IT BRINGS STORIES TO YOU AND GIVES YOU AN EXCUSE TO TRAVEL AND SEE THE WORLD. >> THE MINUTE I STEPPED IN HERE, IT MADE SENSE. OF COURSE YOU BUILT A CAMERA WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE WORLD UPSIDE DOWN AND BACKWARDS. IT MADE SENSE AND I AM LIKE, OKAY. >> UPSIDE DOWN IS ONE THING BUT THE BACKWARDNESS IS, I REALLY, UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE THAT IS REALLY DYSLEXIC AND THAT IS PART OF MY LEARNING DISABILITY, OR WHATEVER THEY CALL IT, BUT THAT IS HOW I SEE THE WORLD. THE PICTURES THAT I LIKE ARE THE ONES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL AND THEY ARE NOT SO MUCH PRETTY COLORS OR SOMETHING OVER THE TOP, BUT THEY ARE SOMETHING THAT MAKE YOU FEEL SAD OR HAPPY OR A CERTAIN EMOTION AND YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHY BUT YOU HAVE THAT CONNECTION WITH IT. >> THIS WEEK NEW MEXICO

SUPREME COURT BEGAN HEARING ARGUMENT ABOUT THE LEGALITY OF SAME SEX MARRIAGE. TO COINCIDE WITH THAT, WE HAVE AN INTERVIEW WITH MODERN FAMILY STAR JESSE TYLER FERGUSON WHO WAS HERE LAST MONTH IN SUPPORT OF THE ACLU NEW MEXICO'S PUBLIC EDUCATION CAMPAIGN FOR MARRIAGE EQUALITY. I SAT DOWN WITH THE FOUR TIME EMMY NOMINEE TO TALK ABOUT GROWING ABOUT AS A GAY KID IN ALBUQUERQUE AND MAKING IT IN SHOW BUSINESS AND HIS TIE THE KNOT FOUNDATION, A PROJECT HE HAS HELPED GET STARTED TO ADVOCATE ON BEHALF OF MARRIAGE FREEDOM IN ARTS AND FASHION BOW TIES. >> JESSE FERGUSON FROM MODERN FAMILY, I'LL JUST CONFESS RIGHT NOW, I AM A HUGE FAN. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU FOR COMING TO PBS. APPRECIATE IT. THE EMMYS, THE SHOW, TALK ABOUT THE SHOW A LITTLE BIT. A LOT OF FANS OUT THERE. HOW DID IT HAPPEN? HOW DID YOU GET CAST IN MODERN FAMILY? >> LISTEN, JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE CAST DID. YEAH, I READ THE SCRIPT AND I WANTED TO SEE ME FOR THE ROLE OF CAM AND I SAID I FEEL LIKE I MORE OF A MITCH BUT I'LL

READ FOR CAM. SO I WENT AND READ FOR CAM, AND I READ IT HOW I WOULD HAVE READ MITCH AND THEY STOPPED ME AND THEY SAID, YOU ARE REALLY MORE OF A MITCH. I TOLD YOU THAT. SO I CAME BACK A FEW DAYS LATER AND READ FOR MITCH AND I THINK I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE THEY CAST SO IT HAPPENED VERY QUICKLY FOR ME. >> INTERESTING, THE FATES OF SHOW BUSINESS IS SO INTERESTING. YOU'RE A PRODUCT OF ALBUQUERQUE, I FIND IT VERY INTERESTING WHEN I MENTIONED THIS TO FOLKS, IT SURPRISES A LOT OF PEOPLE. THEY KNOW YOU, THEY LOVE THE SHOW, THEY HAVE NO IDEA YOU'RE FROM HERE. >> I WAS BORN IN MONTANA, IF YOU DID RESEARCH ONLINE, YOU WOULD SEE, I AM FROM MASSOOLA, MONTANA BUT I LIVED THERE FOR 11 MONTHS. I DON'T REMEMBER ANY OF IT. ALBUQUERQUE TRULY IS MY HOME. I LIVED HERE FOR 16 YEARS, SO, YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK ALSO PEOPLE JUST SEE MY SKIN TONE AND LIKE I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THAT FITS INTO THE DESERT SUN.

>> THERE IS A LOT OF EXPLAINING IN LOS ANGELES, WITH YOUR ACTING CAREER, SO TO SPEAK, RIGHT HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, I HIT THE BOARDS HERE. I AM CURIOUS HOW YOU STARTED. >> MY MOM TOOK ME TO A PRODUCTION AT ALBUQUERQUE CHILDREN'S THEATER AT POPEJOY HALL AND I LOVED IT. I WAS TOTALLY ENAMORED WITH THESE ACTORS ON STAGE AND I WANTED TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FOOTLIGHTS SO I BEGGED MY MOM TO LET ME GO TO CLASS AT THE ALBUQUERQUE CHILDREN'S THEATER AND I WAS A SHY KID AND I THINK IT SURPRISED HER THAT I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING SO EXTROVERTED. SO, SHE WAS THRILLED TO LET ME SPREAD MY WINGS THERE. THEN I WORKED A LOT WITH ALBUQUERQUE CIVIC LIGHT OPERA WHICH I THINK NOW IS MUSICAL THEATER SOUTHWEST. >> YES. >> SO, I WORKED A LOT WITH THEM, I WAS ALWAYS -- I ALWAYS RIB THEM FOR THIS BECAUSE I WAS NEVER GIVEN A LEAD ROLE. I AUDITIONED FOR THEM BUT THE SAME, LIKE, THREE PEOPLE GOT THE LEADS ALL THE TIME. I WAS ALWAYS IN THE ENSEMBLE, NEVER GIVEN A SHOT. I HAD TO MOVE TO NEW YORK TO

GET A SPEAKING ROLE ON BROADWAY. >> THAT IS FUNNY. YOU LIVE IN NEW YORK, NOW. YOU DID GO TO BROADWAY, A LOT OF PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IT IN THE ACTING WORLD, BUT YOU JUST DID. HOW BIG A DECISIONS WAS THAT? DID IT WORK RIGHT AWAY? >> NO BRAINER. I STARVED THE WHOLE TIME, BUT, LIKE, I KNEW I HAD TO MOVE TO NEW YORK. I WAS OBSESSED WITH THE IDEA OF BEING IN NEW YORK. I HAD NEVER SEEN NEW YORK AND I KNEW THAT IS WHERE I NEEDED TO LIVE. I WENT ON A TRIP WHEN I WAS A JUNIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL, AND IT WAS THROUGH ALBUQUERQUE CIVIC LIGHT OPERA AND THERE WAS A LOT OF SENIOR CITIZENS ON THE TRIP. I WAS DEFINITELY THE YOUNGEST PERSON AND WE SAW LIKE 19 SHOWS IN THREE DAYS, CRAMMED THEM IN. AND, I WAS LIKE I GOT TO GET BACK TO THE CITY AFTER I GRADUATE HIGH SCHOOL AND, YOU KNOW, I DID STRUGGLE A LOT AND I CERTAINLY BARELY COULD MAKE ENDS MEET AT TIMES, BUT, I FINALLY GOT A REALLY NICE BREAK IN NEW YORK, YEAH.

>> INTERESTING. WOULD YOU CONSIDER GOING BACK TO DO A SHOW ON BROADWAY, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, DURING BREAKS. >> THIS PAST SUMMER I WENT BACK TO NEW YORK TO DO THE IN THE PARK, WHICH WAS GREAT. A FEW SUMMERS AGO I DID THE MERCHANT OF VENICE IN CENTRAL PARK WITH AL PACHINO. SO I DO TRY AND GO BACK. IT HAS TO FIT IN MY SUMMER HIATUS WHICH IS FOUR, FOUR-AND-A-HALF MONTHS AND MODERN FAMILY IS KEEPING ME BUSY. THEY CALL IT GOLDEN HANDCUFFS BECAUSE IT IS AN AMAZING JOB BUT YOU REALLY CAN'T DO TOO MUCH BEYOND THAT. MY FIRST LOVE IS THE STAGE AND I WOULD ALWAYS ENTERTAIN THE IDEA OF GOING BACK TO THEATER. >> INTERESTING, HOW FUNNY. YOU'RE HERE SPECIFICALLY, HOWEVER, AND A LOT OF YOUR EFFORTS ARE TAKEN UP WITH MARRIAGE EQUALITY, WITH YOUR TIE THE KNOT FOUNDATION. >> SO, TIE THE KNOT, MY HUSBAND AND I, JUSTIN MCKEE, WE GOT MARRIED IN JULY.

ABOUT A YEAR AGO, WE LAUNCHED A FOUNDATION TIE THE KNOT.ORG IS OUR WEBSITE, AND BASICALLY WE'RE CREATING BOW TIES, THIS IS ONE OF THEM, ONE OF THE ORIGINAL ONES, AND ALL THE PROCEEDS FROM THE BOW TIES GO TO MARRIAGE EQUALITY. SO WE HAVE RAISED THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AND DONATED MONEY TO HRC, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN, THE RESPECT MARRIAGE COALITION. WE TRAVELED TO ILLINOIS TO BRING ATTENTION TO THE MARRIAGE EQUALITY BILL. WE TRAVEL TO NEW MEXICO TO SHED LIGHT ON FIGHT FOR MARRIAGE EQUALITY HERE. SO IT HAS BEEN SUCH A LABOR OF LOVE, SOMETHING WE TRULY ENJOY DOING BUT HAS A QUIRKY SPIN. WE'RE SELLING BOW TIES. IT IS FUN AND THERE IS A HUMOR DRIVEN ASPECT TO IT. WE JUST DID A VIDEO WITH GEORGE DUKAY, WHICH IS SORT OF POKING FUN AT THE FEAR OF THE HOMOSEXUAL AND IT IS MEANT TO BE TONGUE IN CHEEK. I DO COMEDY. I AM NOT A SERIOUS GUY. I FEEL LIKE YOU CAN GET A LOT

DONE WITH COMEDY AND WITH HUMOR AND A LIGHT TOUCH. THAT IS MY ANGLE WHEN I COME INTO DISCUSSION OF MARRIAGE EQUALITY. >> WHAT IS THE FEEDBACK YOU GLEANED? ANY COMMONALITY IN THE THREAD OF OPINION OUT THERE MEANING FOR SOME FOLKS YOU TALK TO, THEY ARE IN QUITE AGREEMENT FOR MARRIAGE EQUALITY BUT THE FOLKS THAT ARE NOT SUPPORTIVE OF MARRIAGE EQUALITY, WHAT HAS BEEN THE COMMONALITY AND HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THOSE? >> WHEN WE WERE IN ILLINOIS TALKING WITH SENATORS, A LOT OF THEIR CONCERNS WERE, YOU KNOW, MARRIAGE IN THE CHURCH, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE -- YOU KNOW -- CHURCHES WERE NERVOUS OKAY IF MARRIAGE EQUALITY IS LEGAL, WE HAVE TO OPEN OUR DOORS TO THESE COUPLES THAT ARE GOING TO WANT TO GET MARRIED AND IT IS AGAINST OUR BELIEFS. AND MY ARGUMENT THERE WAS, LIKE, I DON'T FEEL LIKE ANYONE WANTS TO GET MARRIED IN A PLACE WHERE THEY ARE NOT WELCOME. I DON'T THINK THAT IS A CONCERN. THE BIBLE IS SOMETIMES THAT I FEEL PEOPLE HIDE BEHIND A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THE BIBLE IS HIGHLY INTERPRETIVE.

I DON'T THINK WE DON'T TAKE EVERY WORD OF THE BIBLE AS LAW. WE DON'T CUT OFF PEOPLES HANDS WHEN THEY ARE STEALING, SO, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THERE IS A CERTAIN PASSAGE IN LEVITICUS, WE'RE REALLY GOING TO STAND BY THOSE, BUT NOT THESE. THAT IS AN INTERESTING ARGUMENT AND I FEEL LIKE IT IS REALLY A NO BRAINER. I DON'T FEEL LIKE IT IS EVEN AN ARGUMENT TO HAVE, BUT A LOT OF IT IS JUST FEAR AND FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN. AND ACTUALLY PEOPLE ARE THREATENED BY THE IDEA OF CHANGING THE MEANING OF MARRIAGE. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAY IT IS BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN. WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE. WE'RE JUST LOOKING TO BE INCLUDED IN THE DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE. >> THERE IS A COUPLE OF WAYS TO DO THIS WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT POLICY, THERE IS CONSTITUTIONAL VOTES OF FOLKS THAT WANT TO PUSH FOR THAT SO EVERYBODY HAS A SAY. INTERESTING ARGUMENT ON BOTH SIDES ON THAT, BUT THE OTHER SIDE IS LEGISLATING IT. SOME FOLKS HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WITH THAT. DO YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR PREFERENCE HOW WOULD YOU LIKE

TO SEE THIS GO? >> I WOULD HATE -- I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF THE RIGHT OF THE MINORITY BEING PLACED IN THE HANDS OF THE MAJORITY. I DON'T THINK THAT IS RIGHT. I FEEL LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT ALL CIVIL RIGHTS TRIUMPHS, WE HAVE NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE. AND I DON'T THINK -- I THINK THAT IS REALLY TRICKY WATERS THAT YOU'RE GETTING INTO. WE WENT THROUGH SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR IN CALIFORNIA, WITH PROP EIGHT AND IT WAS REALLY HEART BREAKING TO KNOW THAT ENOUGH PEOPLE VOTED AGAINST MY RIGHTS AND I WAS REALLY ANGRY ABOUT IT. I DON'T THINK THAT THAT IS OKAY. I MEAN, LISTEN WE'RE GOING TO GET THINGS DONE AS THEY HAPPEN. CALIFORNIA, WE HAD PROP EIGHT HAPPEN AND BROUGHT A LOT OF ATTENTION TO MARRIAGE EQUALITY AND MADE IT A HOT BUTTON TOPIC, BUT I AM VERY WARY OF THAT -- OF DOING IT THAT WAY. >> INTERESTING. YOU KNOW, JUST WHEN YOU MENTIONED PROP 8 IT POPPED INTO MY HEAD, WHAT AN INTERESTING WAY TO MAKE A COMPARISON.

YOU'RE QUITE RIGHT, BECAUSE WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS ALL THIS OUTSIDE MONEY WILL ALWAYS ARRIVE WHENEVER THERE IS A VOTE BY THE MAJORITY. THAT IS THE SYSTEM TO SWAY ONE TO YOUR SIDE. >> ABSOLUTELY. AND MONEY COMES FROM PLACES THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY EVEN FROM NEW MEXICO. A LOT OF MONEY CAME IN FROM OUTSIDE SOURCES FOR CALIFORNIA AND IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH CALIFORNIA. IT WAS PEOPLE FROM OTHER STATES WHO, YOU KNOW, DID NOT BELIEVE THAT THAT SHOULD BE LEGAL AND THEY THOUGHT, LET'S FUNNEL OUR FUNDS TO CALIFORNIA AND HELP THEM WITH THIS FIGHT. IT FELT LIKE AN ATTACK. >> SPEAKING OF WHICH, INTERESTING SEGUE, BEING GAY IN A CATHOLIC SCHOOL, EVERYONE HAS SOMETHING TO DEAL WITH, SLOGGING THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL. HIGH SCHOOL IS THE LONG SLOG. HOWEVER, I HAVE TO IMAGINE IT IS A VASTLY DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCE ALTOGETHER. WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE LIKE? >> I CAN'T COMPARE IT TO ANYTHING ELSE, BECAUSE I ONLY WENT TO CATHOLIC SCHOOL SO I WILL SHARE MY EXPERIENCE.

IT WAS DIFFICULT. I WENT TO TWO GREAT SCHOOLS, OUR LADY OF FATIMA AND ST. PIUS X, AND YOU KNOW, I DID HAVE A VERY HARD TIME. AND I THINK BECAUSE RELIGION IS SUCH -- IT IS SO PRESENT -- I MEAN I WENT TO MASS EVERY SINGLE MORNING. I WAS ENGULFED IN RELIGION AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS WHY IT WAS SO DIFFICULT BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE PROGRESSED A LOT SINCE THEN. ESPECIALLY, WITH ST. PIUS. I LOVE THE STORY OF DAMIAN SPEAKING OUT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, NOT WANTING TO WALK DOWN FOR HIS DIPLOMA IN A DIFFERENT COLOR ROBE. SO, I GUESS I DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY FOLLOWED THROUGH WITH THAT, THEY DIDN'T ALLOW HIM TO WALK AS HE WANTED TO AND THAT WAS DISAPPOINTING, BUT THE FACT THERE WAS A TRANSGENDER STUDENT AT ST. PIUS IS MIND BLOWING TO ME. I FELT VERY ALONE IN HIGH SCHOOL BECAUSE I FELT THERE WAS NO ONE THAT WAS LIKE ME OR THAT I COULD RELATE TO.

AND I WAS BULLIED A LOT AND I HAD A LOT OF TEACHERS WHO SORT OF TURNED THEIR BACK ON IT AND I HAD A LOT OF TEACHERS WHO DIDN'T. I HAD A THEOLOGY TEACHER WHO WAS VERY SUPPORTIVE OF ME AND ASKED ME TO COME INTO CLASS AND SHARE WITH THE STUDENTS IN MY CLASS THIS READING OF ANGELS IN AMERICA THAT I HAD DONE AND GONE TO NATIONALS WITH FOR SPEECH AND DEBATE TEAM. AND I THOUGHT, THIS PLAY IS A LITTLE TRICKY, IT DEALS WITH HOMOSEXUALITY AND AIDS AND HE SAID, I THINK YOU SHOULD SHARE IT WITH THE STUDENTS, WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING ON, BECAUSE THE ARTS IS NOT REALLY A THING TO PUT ON A PEDESTAL. SO, I STOOD IN FRONT OF MY CLASS AND DID THIS CUTTING FROM ANGELS IN AMERICA, THIS SPEECH THAT I HAD DONE. AND THEY WERE SO RESPECTFUL OF ME AND THERE WAS PROBABLY PEOPLE WHO WERE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH IT, BUT THE MAJORITY OF THE STUDENTS REALLY WERE VERY RESPONSIVE TO WHAT I HAD TO SHOW, AND A LOT PEOPLE I NEVER SPOKE TO BEFORE CAME UP AND

SAID, YOU'RE REALLY TALENTED AND THAT WAS MOVING AND THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT. AND I JUST FELT LIKE I NEVER HAD THAT MOMENT -- I NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY OF HAVING THAT HUMAN CONNECTION WITH A LOT OF OTHER STUDENTS BECAUSE THERE WAS A FEAR IF I AM FRIENDS WITH THE GUY WHO EVERYONE KNOWS IS GAY, WHAT WILL PEOPLE SAY ABOUT ME. THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN THE PAST 20 YEARS AND I AM ANXIOUS TO HEAR HOW MUCH IT HAS. I KNOW A LITTLE BIT BUT ANXIOUS TO LEARN MORE. >> LET'S ASSUME WATCHING RIGHT NOW THERE ARE YOUNG PEOPLE PERHAPS FANS OF YOURS. ANY ADVICE FOR GAY TEENAGERS OUT THERE? IT STRUCK ME WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT FEELING ALONE. I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN CONNECT TO WHAT YOU SAID BUT ESPECIALLY WHAT YOU JUST MENTIONED WAS INTERESTING. >> RIGHT. I MEAN, I THINK THERE ARE CERTAINLY SO MANY MORE OUTLETS NOW THAN THERE WAS WHEN I WAS A KID. THERE IS FACEBOOK AND TWITTER AND THOSE ARE GOOD THINGS. YOU CAN REACH OUT TO PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKE YOU IN OTHER STATES AND OTHER AREAS OF THE

WORLD. IT IS ALWAYS A BAD THING BECAUSE I THINK CYBER BULLYING HAS GOTTEN REALLY INCREDIBLY OUT OF HAND. THERE IS GREAT ORGANIZATIONS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE FEELING INCREDIBLY ALONE, LIKE PROJECTS, SUICIDE HOT LINES FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE FEELING VERY DESPERATE. BUT, I ALWAYS TELL KIDS WHO ARE FEELING OSTRACIZED AND SECLUDED, THAT THERE IS JUST SUCH A LIFE AFTER HIGH SCHOOL. THERE IS SO MANY PLACES IN THIS COUNTRY THAT ARE WILLING TO WELCOME YOU WITH OPEN ARMS AND I HAVE SEEN A LOT OF THIS COUNTRY NOW AS AN ADULT. I AM ALWAYS ASTONISHED, I HAVE SEEN PLACES, I AM LIKE, I AM GLAD I DIDN'T GROW UP HERE, BUT I HAVE SEEN OTHER PLACES WHERE I THOUGHT THIS IS A WONDERFUL LOVING PLACE FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME. IT IS ALL ABOUT KEEPING YOUR EYE -- SOMETIMES I HAVE TO PUT BLINDERS ON WHEN I WAS A KID AND SAY, I'LL BE FINE, I JUST

GOT TO GET THROUGH THIS, BUT IT IS TOUGH. I WOULD NEVER WANT TO PUT MYSELF THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL AGAIN. AND I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD SAY THAT BUT, I REALLY, I MEAN IT WAS NOT EASY. >> FOLLOWING THAT, I AM CURIOUS AGAIN, ONE CAN INTERPRET THINGS DIFFERENTLY IN MODERN TIMES, BUT, DID YOU FIND BEING GAY WAS IMPACTFUL IN YOUR CAREER EARLY ON? WAS IT HELPFUL, NOT HELPFUL, DIDN'T MATTER AT ALL? >> THAT IS ONE OF THE FEARS MY PARENTS HAD, IF I AM GAY, I AM NOT GOING TO GET WORK. IT IS DIFFERENT IN THE THEATER I MEAN, IT IS RUN BY A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GAY SO I WAS GIVEN OPPORTUNITY. I WAS GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO PLAY GAY ROLES, STRAIGHT ROLES. I PLAYED A HORSE. BUT I PLAYED IN THE PUTNAM COUNTY SPELLING BEE, I PLAYED A 12 YEAR OLD KID WITH ASPERGERS. I RAN THE GAMUT. WHEN I FIRST DID TELEVISION IN

LA, I WAS ON A SHOW CALLED THE CLASS AND I PLAYED A STRAIGHT KID WHO WAS SUICIDAL ACTUALLY, AND MEETS THE GIRL AND FALLS IN LOVE AND SHE SORT OF SAVES HIS LIFE. I WAS SO HONORED LIKE THE WRITERS DIDN'T CARE IF I WAS GAY OR STRAIGHT. IT HASN'T BEEN TOO MUCH OF A BURDEN. I FEEL LIKE IF I WAS A CRAZY SEX SYMBOL, IT MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT THING, NOT THAT I AM NOT A CRAZY SEX SYMBOL, I KNOW I AM, BUT I FEEL LIKE CERTAIN ACTORS, THEY ARE UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF HAVING TO BE A CERTAIN PERSON. I THINK THAT MIGHT BE DIFFICULT FOR THEM, BUT I FEEL LIKE THERE ARE A LOT MORE OPEN MINDS NOW, YOU KNOW. MY FRIEND MATT BOWMER HAS COME OUT OF THE CLOSET RECENTLY AND I DON'T SEE ANY SORT OF EFFECT ON HIS CAREER AT ALL. PATRICK HARRIS HIS CAREER GOT BETTER WHEN HE CAME OUT. SO, I FEEL LIKE OPINIONS IN LIKE THE THEATER OF SOMEONE BEING GAY AND ON TELEVISION OR IN MOVIES IS CHANGING. I GET EXCITED EVERY TIME AN

ACTOR COMES OUT. >> IT IS INTERESTING. THE LANDSCAPE, SPORTS ATHLETES COMING OUT. THERE IS NO RIOTS IN THE STREETS. >> IT IS FANTASTIC. >> INTERESTING. YOU HAVE BEEN ON EMMY STAGES BEFORE, RECEIVING -- YOU HAVE A GREAT RUN WITH MODERN FAMILY BUT NOT HAD A CHANCE TO SNAG ONE FOR YOURSELF PERSONALLY. DOES THAT MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU? >> NO. LIKE, HONESTLY, I HAVE BEEN SO -- EVERY YEAR WHEN THE NOMINATIONS ARE GOING TO BE ANNOUNCED, I THINK I AM NOT GOING TO BE NOMINATED. I HAVE BEEN NOMINATED FOUR TIMES IN A ROW AND EVERY YEAR, I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT THEY THINK I SHOULD BE PLACED IN CATEGORY WITH THESE PEOPLE. IT IS TRULY AN HONOR. EVERY YEAR WHEN THE CATEGORY COMES OUT AT AWARDS SHOW, I DO HOPE THEY CALL MY NAME, WHO DOESN'T, BUT THE WINS FOR THE SERIES HAVE BEEN SO -- I MEAN, HAVE MEANT SO MUCH TO ME AND, YOU KNOW, AS A CAST WE HAVE WON THREE SAG AWARDS AND THAT HAS MEANT SO MUCH TO ME, AND I HAVE BEEN HONORED BY THE HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN AND THE DO

SOMETHING AWARDS, AND THOSE THINGS DO HAVE SUCH A WEIGHT TO THEM, BECAUSE IT IS MORE ABOUT JUST MY ACTING, MORE ABOUT MY PHILANTHROPIC WORK AS WELL. >> ON THAT POINT, LET ME ASK YOU, AND LAST QUESTION, YOU HAVE GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE, YOU HAVE A BUSY DAY. HOWEVER, YOU MENTIONED A LITTLE BIT EARLIER HUMOR AS A WEAPON OR AS A LEVERAGE POINT. >> AS A TOOL, YEAH. >> IT IS INTERESTING WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE EPISODE THAT JUST RAN -- IF ANYONE HASN'T SEEN IT, THE GAY MARRIAGE BASICALLY EPISODE. IT IS REALLY FUNNY. IT IS SO FUNNY, I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYBODY WHO IS OPPOSED TO GAY MARRIAGE NOT LAUGHING THEMSELVES OFF THE COUCH. >> WHAT IS AMAZING ABOUT THE SHOW IS CAM AND MITCH, WHICH ARE THE CHARACTERS THAT ARE GAY, AND I PLAY MITCH, AND ERIC PLAYS CAM. THEY ARE AT LEAST IN THE VERY FIRST EPISODE, THEY WERE PRESENTED AS THE MOST NORMAL KIND OF MUNDANE COUPLE.

BEING GAY WAS LIKE FOURTH ON THE LIST. THE FIRST THING WAS THEY WERE NEW DADS AND GOING THROUGH STRUGGLES OF RAISING A KID. I FEEL LIKE PEOPLE WATCHING THE SHOW WERE HAVING ARGUMENTS SHOULD WE -- SO DIFFICULT, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SHE BITES SOMEONE AT SCHOOL AND/OR WHAT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, WHEN SHE -- ALL THESE THINGS THAT EVERY PARENT CAN RELATE TO AND THEY START RELATING TO THESE CHARACTERS AND REALIZING, OH, THEY ARE NOT TOO DIFFERENT FROM US, THEN, LIKE, BUT THEY ARE GAY. I MET EVEN SOME STRAIGHT COUPLES WHO WILL COME UP TO ME AND THE HUSBAND WILL SAY, MY WIFE IS SUCH A MITCH. SO THEY ARE RELATING TO THESE COUPLES AS KIND OF CHARACTERS AND THEIR SEXUALITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. SO WHEN YOU DO AN EPISODE LIKE A GAY PROPOSAL, I FEEL LIKE AT THAT POINT THE AUDIENCE IS GOING TO LOVE THE CHARACTERS SO MUCH THEY ARE NOT SEEING -- THEIR BLINDED TO THE FACT THEY ARE GAY AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT I AM HOPING FOR, YOU KNOW, IN THE WORLD, LIKE, I

DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO LOOK AT ME AND THINK, GAY FIRST. I WANT THEN TO THINK OF ME AS MARRIED OR AS A FATHER OR AS A PARTNER OR HUSBAND, AND AS A GREAT ACTOR, AS A FUNNY PERSON, AND THEN GAY IS LIKE SEVENTH OR EIGHTH DOWN THE LIST. AND I FEEL LIKE WE ALL HAVE THE ABILITY AND I THINK THAT -- I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE HAVE THAT ABILITY TO THINK THAT WAY. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPENDING TIME, JESSE. GREAT FUN, MAN. GREAT THRILL, COME BACK AND SEE US. >> THANK YOU. >> THANKS FOR SPENDING THIS HOUR WITH US. ALL OF US HERE AT NEW MEXICO INFOCUS APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORTS TO STAY INFORMED AND ENGAGED. CATCH UP WITH US ANY TIME ON SOCIAL MEDIA BY SEARCHING "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS" AND FIND ARCHIVED INTERVIEWS AND BONUS MATERIALS FROM THE SHOWS ON YOUTUBE CHANNEL OR CERTAINLY AT NEW MEXICO INFOCUS.ORG. I AM GENE GRANT.