New Mexico in Focus; 912; Antiques Roadshow - Behind-the-scenes

FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO InFOCUS PROVIDED BY THE McCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION, AND THE NELITTA E. WALKER FUND FOR KNME-TV, THE KNME ENDOWMENT FUND, AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU. InFOCUS ... WE GET A BEHIND THE SCENES LOOK AT THE ALBUQUERQUE TAPING OF THE ANTIQUES ROADSHOW. >> I'VE GOT MY CAMERA. >> YOUR GRANDPA'S CAMERA. >> WELL, IT'S MINE NOW. >> IT'S HERS NOW. >> AND, THE LINE OPINION PANEL DISCUSSES THE GOVERNOR'S NEW ENERGY PLAN. NEW MEXICO InFOCUS STARTS >> WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. LATER THIS HOUR, WE BRING YOU AN INSIDER'S LOOK AT THE HIT PBS PROGRAM ANTIQUES ROADSHOW. THE SHOW AIMS TO NOT ONLY BE ENTERTAINING, BUT ALSO PROVIDE EDUCATIONAL VALUE TO VIEWERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. WE ALSO HAVE A GREAT GROUP FOR THIS WEEK'S LINE OPINION

PANEL. WE'LL DISCUSS CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTING, CONCERNS ABOUT TRANSPARENCY AND REFORMS TAKING PLACE WITHIN THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ'S NEWLY RELEASED ENERGY PLAN FOR THE STATE. NOW LET'S GET STARTED WITH >> LAST WEEK WE DISCUSSED CHARGES FILED AGAINST SECRETARY OF STATE DIANNA DURAN. SHE IS FACING SEVERAL CHARGES INCLUDING FRAUD AND EMBEZZLEMENT OF CAMPAIGN FUNDS. REPRESENTATIVE ANTONIO 'MO' MAESTAS ANNOUNCED THAT HE HAD AMENDED HIS PREVIOUS CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORT TO ACCOUNT FOR MONEY THAT HE DID NOT DISCLOSE LAST YEAR. NOW, ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTING? LET'S START THERE WITH THIS WEEK'S LINE OPINION PANELISTS. I'M JOINED AT THE TABLE TONIGHT BY DANIEL FOLEY, FORMER NEW MEXICO HOUSE MINORITY WHIP. ERIC GRIEGO, HE'S BACK. FORMER NEW MEXICO STATE SENATOR, AND A WHOLE LOT MORE AFTER THAT. SOPHIE MARTIN, AN ATTORNEY AND EDITOR OF DUKECITYFIX.COM. AND MERRITT ALLEN IS HERE FROM VOX OPTIMA. DAN, LET ME START WITH YOU. A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION. CLEAR SOMETHING UP FOR US NONELECTED PEOPLE.

ME? >> I AM. AND I'LL ASK ERIC THE SAME QUESTION. WHAT DOES ONE DO FILLING OUT A CAMPAIGN FINANCE FORM? WHAT IS THE FORM? WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO PUT ON IT? HOW DO THEY WORK? >> WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF WHEN I WAS IN, YOU BASICALLY PUT DOWN THE DATE YOU GOT THE MONEY, HOW MUCH IT WAS, AND WHO IT WAS FROM. THAT'S WHEN THE MONEY CAME IN. WHEN THE MONEY WENT OUT, YOU PUT DOWN THE DATE, YOU PUT DOWN A LITTLE DESCRIPTION, AND IT COULD BE FOOD AND HOW MUCH YOU SPENT, IT COULD BE GAS. I MEAN, THERE WAS NO -- YOU KNOW, LIKE MY EXPENSE REPORT FOR WORK, IF I PUT GAS, I'VE GOT TO TELL THEM WHERE I WENT, WHO I WENT TO GO SEE, WHAT I WENT TO DO. THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'VE GOT TO DO. IT IS JUST, I GOT A THOUSAND DOLLAR CONTRIBUTION ANONYMOUS, I CAN PUT ANONYMOUS IF I GOT IT ANONYMOUS, ON THE DATE I GOT IT, AND THEN I CAN GO IN AND SAY ON ANOTHER DATE, I SPENT A THOUSAND DOLLARS TO BUY STAMPS, I SPENT A THOUSAND DOLLARS ON FOOD, A THOUSAND DOLLARS ON CLOTHES, A THOUSAND DOLLAR DONATION. >> NOW, IS CLOTHES SOMETHING THAT IS TYPICALLY PAID FOR OUT OF CAMPAIGN FINANCES?

>> IT'S NOT TYPICALLY PAID FOR. >> IT'S SORT OF CONFUSING FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC. >> THE PROBLEM FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS, THERE'S NO REAL RULES OF WHAT YOU CAN USE THE MONEY FOR. IT SAYS, WHATEVER YOU USE FOR YOUR CAMPAIGN. SO THERE ARE LEGISLATORS WHO HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW, I WILL WALK THROUGH TWO PAIRS OF SHOES DURING THE CAMPAIGN, SO I'M BUYING SHOES. I'M BUYING A SUIT TO GO TO APPEARANCES. I'M BUYING GAS TO GO PLACES. THERE'S REALLY NO RULES. >> BUT THEN, ERIC, WE'VE HAD THINGS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, I SEEM TO REMEMBER RENTING FIRE TRUCKS OR SOMETHING FOR PARADES. IT SEEMS VERY LOOSE WHAT CAN BE DETERMINED AS CAMPAIGN EXPENSES. NOW, WHEN YOU WERE DOING THIS AND FILLING OUT STUFF, THAT LITTLE BIT DAN MENTIONED, THE LITTLE FILL-IN-THE-BLANK PART, THAT SEEMS TO BE WHERE PEOPLE ARE GETTING IN TROUBLE. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? >> SO, THE IDEA IS YOUR TREASURER -- YOU REALLY SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT, BUT NOT EVERYBODY GETS AN INDEPENDENT TREASURER WITH ANY KIND OF FINANCE OR ACCOUNTING BACKGROUND. IF YOU'RE SMART, YOU DO. I THINK HERE'S THE BIGGER PROBLEM. THE BIGGER PROBLEM IS YOU HAVE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL SOMETIMES, OR OFTEN FROM THE

OTHER PARTY, WHO SORT OF PRESIDES OVER, IN THIS CASE WITH SECRETARY DURAN, PRESIDES OVER SORT OF MONITORING THIS STUFF. WE'VE HAD A BILL, I HAD A BILL AND SENATOR FELDMAN, FOR YEARS TO DO SORT OF AN INDEPENDENT ENTITY TO LOOK AT THIS, BECAUSE YOU'RE ASKING AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, SOMETIMES OF A DIFFERENT PARTY, TO OVERSEE A BUNCH OF PARTISAN ELECTED OFFICIALS. I'VE NEVER SEEN A SYSTEM WORK. I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH DAN, THERE SHOULD BE MORE DISCLOSURE. IT SHOULD BE EASIER FOR THE PUBLIC TO GET. AND YEAH, LEGISLATORS ARE GOING TO GET DINGED, BUT AT LEAST PEOPLE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. I THINK HAVING IT UNDER, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES, A PARTISAN ELECTED SECRETARY OF STATE, INCLUDING THIS CURRENT ONE, WHICH I THINK HAS BEEN A VERY PARTISAN SECRETARY OF STATE, LOOKING AT OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS FOR THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS IS JUST NOT A GOOD SYSTEM. WE NEED AN INDEPENDENT ENTITY, AN ETHICS COMMISSION OFFICE TO BE DOING THIS. >> INTERESTING. MERRITT, IT SEEMS TO ME AS I'M HEARING ALL THIS AND READING ALL THIS, AS WE ALL ARE, IT SEEMS SIMPLE ENOUGH. I'M STILL CONFUSED AS HOW

DOES ONE GET ONESELF IN SO MUCH TROUBLE. MO MAESTAS, FOR EXAMPLE, $11,000. I CAN SEE A THOUSAND DOLLARS WORTH OF UNREPORTED STUFF, BUT $11,000 WORTH OF UNREPORTED OR UNCLASSIFIED, OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAY, THAT SEEMS LIKE AN AWFUL LOT. THAT'S MORE THAN JUST SORT OF ERROR. I'M NOT SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT MO HERE, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? IT'S JUST SOMETHING DOESN'T SEEM QUITE RIGHT THERE. >> TO BE HONEST, I WENT AND LOOKED AT THE AMOUNT HE HAD RAISED FOR THE CAMPAIGN, AND ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT NEW MEXICO IS OUR POLITICIANS ARE GENERALLY LOCAL, THEY CARE, THEY'RE UNSOPHISTICATED POLITICALLY. SO, YOU KNOW, IT IS A CLUNKY SYSTEM. WITH A LEGISLATOR IN MY FAMILY, I'VE REVIEWED REPORTS AND I'VE HELPED OUT WITH THIS. IT'S A CLUNKY SYSTEM. IT'S A SYSTEM THAT REQUIRES, WITH THE LEGISLATOR I KNOW, CONSTANT CALLS TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE, INCLUDING WHEN IT'S BEEN A DEMOCRAT AND SHE'S BEEN A REPUBLICAN, FOR

VERIFICATION, BECAUSE I THINK LEGISLATORS THEMSELVES DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE. I THINK IT'S A MUSHY SYSTEM THAT NOW HAS COMPLETE TRANSPARENCY, AND WE OUGHT TO ADJUST THE SYSTEM SO THE FIDELITY OF THE SYSTEM CAN STAND UP TO THE TRANSPARENCY WE WANT. >> GOOD WAY TO PUT IT. SOPHIE, THE DREADED PETTY CASH. THIS ONE ALWAYS CRACKS ME UP, EXPENDITURES UNDER A HUNDRED BUCKS. YOU CAN SPEND A HUNDRED BUCKS OVER AND OVER AND OVER OUT OF PETTY CASH A LOT OF TIMES AND END UP WITH A BIG OL' AMOUNT OF MONEY SPENT. >> TRUE, AND THERE IS SOME QUESTION IN MY MIND ABOUT, WHO DOESN'T TAKE A CREDIT CARD. >> PEOPLE IN LINE AT THE POLLS WHO WILL VOTE FOR YOU. >> GOOD POINT. >> I THINK SORT OF TO MERRITT'S POINT, WE HAVE TRANSPARENCY UP TO A POINT. WE'RE ASKING FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF REPORTING, WE'RE GETTING A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF REPORTING, BUT WE'RE NOT APPARENTLY GETTING EVERYTHING. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S BEEN SO FASCINATING, I THINK, ABOUT THE DIANNA DURAN CASE IS THIS SORT OF UNDERCURRENT OF LIKE, MAYBE THE LEGISLATURE WILL DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW. MAYBE WE'LL FINALLY GET ETHICS REFORM.

BUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT EVERY YEAR WHEN ETHICS REFORM COMES BACK AROUND, YOU GET THESE FRANKLY ASININE STATEMENTS FROM LEGISLATORS -- SO SORRY, FOLKS -- THAT, YOU KNOW, I TRUST MY COLLEAGUES, I SHOULD BE TRUSTED. I REMEMBER ONE YEAR A LEGISLATOR GOING AROUND SAYING, WE'RE ALL GOOD CHRISTIANS HERE. THIS IS NOT THE BASIS FOR AN ETHICAL FRAMEWORK, THIS IS THE BASIS FOR DODGING, I THINK, YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT I THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET A WHOLE LOT BETTER OUT OF THIS SCANDAL. >> THAT'S A GOOD POINT THERE. SENATOR GRIEGO, WHAT COULD IMPROVE THIS? IS IT A TECHNOLOGY PROBLEM? YOU MADE A GOOD POINT, AND I'VE HEARD THIS BEFORE, TOO, NOT EVERYBODY HIRES A FINANCE DIRECTOR AND THEY DO IT THEMSELVES. IS THIS A THIRD-PARTY SYSTEM POSSIBLY WHERE SOMEONE CAN HIRE THEMSELVES OUT AND HELP LEGISLATORS DO THIS FOR A SMALLER FEE? IN YOUR MIND, WHAT CAN HELP FIX THIS SITUATION? >> WELL, I THINK, AGAIN, I THINK TO ASK A STATE ELECTED OFFICIAL, ON TOP OF RUNNING ELECTIONS AND THE OTHER SORT OF FILINGS AND SO ON, TO

BASICALLY POLICE, AND NOT VERY EFFECTIVELY FOR ALL OF THE FORMER SECRETARIES OF STATE, REPORTS THAT ARE OFTEN DONE IN HANDWRITTEN FORMS, LIKE SOME FOLKS -- I DID MINE ELECTRONICALLY. I WAS LATE A FEW TIMES. SO THERE'S THIS CRAZY SORT OF GOTCHA SORT OF MENTALITY THERE. SO I THINK, I REALLY DO THINK IT HAS TO BE REMOVED AND IT HAS TO BE AN INDEPENDENT ENTITY. THE LEGISLATURE CAN DO THIS. IT WAS ONE OF THE BILLS. JUST SOMEONE, YOU KNOW, THAT THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR APPOINT, A BIPARTISAN GROUP THAT BASICALLY OVERSEES SOMEBODY, NONPARTISAN, WHO CAN SORT OF MAKE SURE. A LOT OF THIS IS TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE. I HAD THIS EXPERIENCE. I MEAN, JUST GETTING SOMEBODY TO HELP YOU. LOOK, HOW DO I DECLARE THIS? IF THEY'RE UNDERFUNDED, WHICH THE SECRETARY OF STATE OFTEN IS FROM THE LEGISLATURE, IF IT'S NOT THEIR EXPERTISE -- BY THE WAY, THEY DON'T HAVE ELECTION LAWYERS WHO ARE EXPERTS IN FEC AND THOSE SORTS OF ISSUES.

SO I THINK AN INDEPENDENT ENTITY NOT JUST MONITORING THESE THINGS, BUT ALL OF THE LOBBYIST DISCLOSURE STUFF, ALL THIS STUFF, THEY NEED TO INDEPENDENT OF ANY PARTISAN OFFICIAL. FUNDED, OVERSEEN, A LOT OF TRANSPARENCY. AND A HUGE PART OF WHAT THEY SHOULD DO, TO YOUR POINT, IS ABOUT TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE. HAVE SOMEONE WHO HAS GOT AN ACCOUNTING BACKGROUND. LOOK, FOR ME, I COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW THE PROGRAM WORKED SOMETIMES, AND THANK GOD I HAD PEOPLE WHO COULD HELP ME WITH THAT. >> INTERESTING. DAN, PICK UP ON THAT. AGAIN, YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN THERE, WE HAVEN'T. THE LEGISLATORS, NOBODY WANTS TO SCREW THINGS UP, BUT WE HEAR ABOUT THIS ALL THE TIME. >> OH, NO, SOME DO. >> I WAS GOING TO SAY, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT DO. >> SOME DO. OBVIOUSLY I DISAGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE, SENATOR GRIEGO. I DON'T THINK AN INDEPENDENT ETHICS COMMISSION IS THE PROBLEM. I THINK THE PROBLEM IS THE SECRETARY OF STATE, REGARDLESS OF WHO IT IS, THERE'S NO TEETH IN THE LAW. THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING. I MEAN, WHEN THEY FIND OUT YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING WRONG, THEY BASICALLY GO TO THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION, THEY'VE GOT TO TURN IT OVER TO THE AG, AND THE AG HAS GOT TO DECIDE IF THE STATE REPS WHO ARE DOING THIS BUDGET ARE A HIGHER PRIORITY THAN THE METH DEALERS, THE

CHILD PORNOGRAPHY, WHATEVER ELSE THEY'RE WORKING ON, AND IT JUST KIND OF RUNS ITS COURSE. I THINK AN EASY STEP THAT COULD TAKE PLACE QUICKLY WITHOUT CREATING -- BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN EVER CREATE A BIPARTISAN ANYTHING OR A NONPARTISAN ANYTHING. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN REDISTRICTING. PEOPLE ARE LIKE, OH, ONE YEAR THERE WERE FIVE PEOPLE THAT KNEW NOTHING ABOUT POLITICS AND THEY PUT THEM ON THE REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE. THOSE PEOPLE ARE RUNNING TO THE FRONT OF THE LINE. THEY WANT TO SERVE ON SOMETHING THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. I THINK IF WE GIVE THE SECRETARY OF STATE, WHOMEVER IT IS, SOME TEETH IN THE LAW TO ENFORCE THINGS, FINING ABILITY THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY UPHOLD, SOME OTHER THINGS THAT THEY CAN DO -- REALLY, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY TEETH. I THINK THAT WOULD BE A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION TO DO THIS. >> IS THERE A DETERRENT OUT THERE? IS THERE A FINE BIG ENOUGH? >> NO, THE ONLY DETERRENT IS THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION. BUT I MEAN, THE PROBLEM IS THAT MOST LEGISLATORS, LIKE SOMEONE SAID EARLIER, THEY'RE LOCAL, THEY'RE HOME. IT'S LIKE EVERYTHING WE HEAR ABOUT CONGRESS AND THE LEGISLATURE, THEIR APPROVAL RATING IS HORRIBLE. EVERYBODY HATES THEM. BUT THEY LOVE THEIRS.

I HATE CONGRESS, BUT I LIKE MY CONGRESSMAN. I HATE THE LEGISLATURE, BUT I LIKE MY LEGISLATOR. YOU GO RUNNING AROUND OUT THERE, AND ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IN NEW MEXICO IS THAT THE PROBLEMS WITH CAMPAIGN FINANCING REPORTS ARE SO BAD AND SO CONSISTENT THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN PRETTY MUCH RUN AROUND TO ELECTED OFFICIALS AND THEY'LL SAY, I MADE A COUPLE OF MISTAKES, BUT I'M NOT AS BAD AS ERIC. AND PEOPLE WILL SAY, YEAH, THAT'S TRUE. WE SAW IT IN THE E-MAILS. ROGER MADALENA SAID, OKAY, I MADE SOME MISTAKES, BUT GO CHECK ANDY NUNEZ. IT'S LIKE THE TAR BABY IN THE BRIAR PATCH, YOU KNOW, YOU START THROWING THIS AROUND AND EVERYBODY RUNS FROM IT. AND I DON'T KNOW WHO IS GOING TO WANT TO GET IT. I WILL TELL YOU THIS. THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS -- I THINK THIS IS A BIPARTISAN PROBLEM, BUT THERE IS A LOT OF FOLKS, AS A NONPAID CITIZEN LEGISLATURE, THAT ARE MAKING ENDS MEET UTILIZING THEIR CAMPAIGN REPORTS. >> THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ALL AFRAID OF. LET'S TURN TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR A QUICK SECOND. WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT ON THIS SEGMENT, SOPHIE MARTIN. WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED NOW THAT OUR SECRETARY OF STATE

IS NOT IN OFFICE? THINGS ARE BEING DONE. WE SEE THE CHIEF OF STAFF FOR THE SECRETARY OF STATE BEING QUOTED AS TAKING CARE OF BUSINESS. >> I THINK ONE OF THE BIG THINGS THAT NEW MEXICANS HAVE LEARNED IS THAT BEING AN ELECTED OFFICIAL IS A PRETTY CUSHY JOB. THERE WERE INTIMATIONS OF THAT, I REMEMBER, WHEN GOVERNOR MARTINEZ'S CALENDAR WAS RELEASED AND IT LOOKED LIKE A PRETTY EASY JOB, AND NOW WE SEE THAT THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE SEEMS TO RUN THE SAME AS IT DID WHEN SHE WAS THERE. THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT THAT SHE BE THERE. THERE'S APPARENTLY NO LEAVE POLICY REGARDING THESE ELECTED OFFICIALS. AND SO THAT RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF THE PEOPLE THAT WERE ELECTED. I DON'T MEAN TO SAY -- HOW SHALL I PUT THIS? WE WANT OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS IN THERE WORKING. WE PROBABLY NEED TO KNOW WHETHER THEY'RE DOING IT, ESPECIALLY WHEN RE-ELECTION TIME COMES AROUND. BUT I THINK MANY PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW THAT THAT WAS SOMETHING TO LOOK FOR. >> MERRITT, PICK UP ON THAT, IF YOU WOULD. WHAT HAVE YOU GLEANED FROM

THE SITUATION WITH THE SECRETARY OF STATE? IS THERE SOMETHING WE COULD BE DOING DIFFERENTLY FROM THIS POINT ON IN THAT POSITION? >> YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT. I HAVE TO AGREE WITH DAN IN THAT THE PARTISAN ELEMENT IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW YOU'VE GOT AN ATTORNEY GENERAL FROM ONE PARTY AND A SECRETARY OF STATE FROM ANOTHER PARTY, AND THIS ATTORNEY GENERAL IS GOING TO GO AFTER $13,000 OF PRIVATE DONATIONS AND AT THE SAME TIME LEAK A DEEP PERSONAL PROBLEM THAT IS SHOCKING TO THE STATE. BUT UNDER PRIOR ADMINISTRATIONS, A DEMOCRAT ATTORNEY GENERAL COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO PROCEED WITH $3 MILLION OF MISSING MONEY FROM A SECRETARY OF STATE FROM HIS OWN PARTY. SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK DAN'S POINT ABOUT TEETH IN THE LAW AND SOME ACCOUNTABILITY AND -- >> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF ERIC'S POINT ABOUT HAVING AN INDEPENDENT GROUP LOOKING OVER ALL THESE THINGS? >> HOW ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE AN INDEPENDENT GROUP IF THEY'RE FROM THE STATE? WE'VE GOT A STATE SENATOR WHO IS THE FORMER CHIEF LOBBYIST OF A DEMOCRATIC BASED COUNTY CLERK ASSOCIATION, BECAUSE THE COUNTY CLERKS IN THIS STATE

NEED A LOBBYIST? I MEAN, THERE IS NO INDEPENDENT, I DON'T THINK. >> FINISH UP FOR US ON THAT, ERIC, IF YOU WOULD. >> I THINK, FIRST OF ALL, TO SORT OF REINFORCE MY POINT, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A PARTISAN ISSUE IN THERE, AND IN STATEWIDE OFFICES, IT'S GOING TO BE AN ISSUE. A LOT OF STATES ARE DOING THIS. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. WE DO THIS IN ALL SORTS OF LAWS. THE FEC IS. YOU CAN THINK OF 25 FEDERAL AGENCIES THAT ARE BIPARTISAN THAT HAVE STAGGERED TERMS. YOU'RE NOT EVER GOING TO REMOVE ALL OF IT, BUT THERE ARE WAYS TO STRUCTURE THIS TO AT LEAST REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF PARTISANSHIP. >> OR BALANCE IT. >> AT LEAST BALANCE IT, RIGHT. SO I AGREE, AS LONG AS THERE IS PARTISANSHIP IN ANY OF THESE OFFICES, YOU'RE GOING TO GET SOME OF THAT, WHICH EMPHASIZES THE POINT, CAN WE TRY TO CONSTRUCT -- THERE ARE NUMEROUS MODELS OF INDEPENDENT ENTITIES THAT WILL LOOK CRITICALLY AT THESE ISSUES, AND BY THE WAY NOT JUST AT LEGISLATORS, BUT AT LOBBYISTS, AT SPECIAL INTERESTS, AT ALL THE ISSUES AROUND CAMPAIGNS, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PUBLIC AT LEAST KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON,

AND FOR FOLKS LOOKING TO AT THE VERY LEAST HAVE A CLEAN DATTA BASE THAT'S EASILY SEARCHABLE BY THE MEDIA SO PEOPLE CAN AT LEAST SHED LIGHT ON IT. RIGHT NOW, I KNOW THIS ALL HAD TO BE LEAKED BECAUSE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR THESE TWO GUYS TO ACTUALLY FIND THIS STUFF ON A WEBSITE. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT, UNLESS YOU POUR THROUGH RECORDS AND KNOW HOW IT WORKS AND KNOW WHAT THE TIMETABLES WERE. SO WE CAN DO BETTER, AND I THINK SOME INDEPENDENCE IS WHAT'S NEEDED. >> THERE YOU GO. UP NEXT, WE GET A PREVIEW OF THE ALBUQUERQUE STOP OF THE HIT PROGRAM ANTIQUES ROADSHOW. >> THIS APD ISSUE IS GOING AS MAYOR. NOT NECESSARILY IS IT FAIR, BUT I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO DEFINE HIM. AND I THINK HE HAS A CHANCE TO FIX IT, HE JUST NEEDS TO >> THE ANTIQUES ROADSHOW WILL AIR ITS THREE ALBUQUERQUE-BASED EPISODES HERE ON NEW MEXICO PBS AT 7:00 P.M. ON THREE CONSECUTIVE MONDAYS

BEGINNING SEPTEMBER 28th. THE POPULAR SERIES CAME TO ALBUQUERQUE IN JULY 2014 AS PART OF ITS EIGHT CITY SUMMER PRODUCTION TOUR. NOW, WHILE THE ROADSHOW WAS HERE, I SAT DOWN WITH EXECUTIVE PRODUCER MARSHA BEMKO AND APPRAISER JAMES SUPP, AND OUR CAMERAS WENT BEHIND THE SCENES ALONG WITH HOST MARK WALBERG. >> I BROUGHT MY CAMERA. >> YOUR GRANDPA'S CAMERA. >> WELL, IT'S MINE NOW. >> IT'S HERS NOW. >> I'M VERY PLEASED TO HAVE AT THIS TABLE MARSHA BEMKO. SHE IS EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF PBS'S VERY POPULAR ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, AND THE FAMILIAR JAMES SUPP. HE'S A ROADSHOW APPRAISER FROM TUCSON. WE'RE GOING TO HEAR INSIGHTS AND STORIES ABOUT THE ROADSHOW, BUT BEFORE WE DO, I WANT TO SHARE OUR ON-SET VISIT WITH ROADSHOW HOST MARK L. WALBERG, AND A RARE BEHIND-THE-SCENES LOOK. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH MARSHA AND JAMES. >> HELLO. >> HELLO, WELCOME TO ANTIQUES ROADSHOW. >> ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, ANYWHERE WE GO, IT'S AS

THOUGH WE'RE GREETED BY AN EXTENDED FAMILY THAT I'VE YET TO MEET. ALBUQUERQUE IS SUCH A SUPPORTIVE TOWN FOR US. THE SHOW HAS BEEN HERE THREE TIMES, WHICH IS VERY UNUSUAL. THE FOLKS IN ALBUQUERQUE, AND FOR THAT MATTER THIS AREA OF NEW MEXICO, HAVE BEEN SO SUPPORTIVE OF ANTIQUES ROADSHOW THAT IT'S SORT OF A COMING HOME FOR US. >> THIS CHAIR WAS FROM MY GRANDPARENTS AND GREAT-GRANDPARENTS BACK IN MASSACHUSETTS, ACTUALLY. IT'S BEEN A CURIOSITY IN MY FAMILY FOR A LONG TIME. >> WE JUST ENJOY SEEING WHAT PEOPLE BRING TO THE SHOW, AND WHAT THEY FIND OUT ABOUT IT, AND IT'S ALWAYS EXCITING. I'M ALWAYS SO HAPPY FOR THEM WHEN IT'S WORTH A LOT OF MONEY. >> AND THE BEST PART I THINK IS THE FAMILY STORIES. THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SOMETHING IS WORTH AT LOT OF MONEY, BUT THE FAMILY SIGNIFICANCE THAT IT HAS TO THEM PERSONALLY, THAT'S THE BEST PART. >> THIS IS A KNOCK-OUT PIECE. >> I THINK ONE OF THE

REASONS THAT PEOPLE TUNE INTO ANTIQUES ROADSHOW AND STAY WITH IT IS THAT WHILE IT APPEARS TO BE A TELEVISION SHOW, AND IT APPEARS TO BE JUST AN ENTERTAINMENT SHOW, FOR THAT MATTER, THAT EVERYBODY WHO WORKS ON THAT SHOW IS VERY MUCH ENROLLED IN, FOR LACK OF A BETTER PHRASE, A HIGHER IDEAL. WE HAVE SELF-IMPOSED THAT IT NEEDS TO BE TRUTHFUL, THAT IT NEEDS TO BE EDUCATIONAL, AND THEN ENTERTAINING. BUT I THINK THE THING THAT TOUCHES ME EMOTIONALLY IS THAT WE ALL HAVE A SHARED HISTORY. WHEN YOU, ON OUR SHOW, MEET FAMILY MEMBERS WHO HAVE SOMETHING THAT THEY CHERISH, THERE'S INTIMACY, THERE'S A PERSONAL CONTACT POINT THAT LETS US RELATE TO, OH, IN SOME WAY WE MAY ALL BE FAMILY IN THAT SENSE. >> HOW DID WE GET BACK ON THE LIST? I'M GRATEFUL THAT WE ARE, BUT WHAT'S BEEN DIFFERENT SINCE YOU'VE BEEN BACK IN ALBUQUERQUE? >> WELL, YOU ARE A THREE-TIMER. THIS IS THE THIRD TIME IN ALBUQUERQUE. WE WERE HERE IN '96, WE WERE HERE IN 2002, AND NOW WE'RE BACK. WE WON'T REPEAT A CITY IN ANY LESS THAN FIVE YEARS, BECAUSE WE WANT TO SPREAD

THE WEALTH, WE WANT TO GET AROUND THE COUNTRY. AND REALLY, IT BECOMES -- PEOPLE WONDER, DO WE GO BECAUSE WE PICK ZIP CODES? DO WE PICK CITIES WHERE THERE ARE BETTER THINGS? IT'S A REALLY BORING THING. IT STARTS WITH, DOES YOUR CITY HAVE A CONVENTION THAT WILL HOLD US, WHICH IS ABOUT 5000 PEOPLE. WE NEED ABOUT 80,000 TO 100,000 SQUARE FEET OF SPACE. AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THERE ARE STATES THAT WE HAVEN'T BEEN TO BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THAT. SO IT STARTS WITH THIS REALLY BORING THING. NOT NOTHING ABOUT YOUR ANTIQUES, BUT CAN WE HOLD OUR EVENT HERE. AND WE CAN, SO WE'RE COMING BACK. AND THEN IT STARTS WITH THE REST OF THE TOUR. WHERE ELSE ARE WE GOING THIS YEAR? WE GOT TO GO EAST-WEST OR WEST-EAST, AND YOU GUYS FIT IN PERFECTLY. >> I LOVE IT. GLAD YOU'RE HERE. JAMES, GOOD TO SEE YOU. I THINK FOR ANYBODY THAT WATCHES THE SHOW, WE KNOW YOU. IT'S LIKE, WE'VE SEEN YOU DO YOUR THING. I AM SO CURIOUS WHAT YOUR FIRST TIME ON THE ROADSHOW WAS LIKE ON TELEVISION. >> I'VE BEEN EXTRAORDINARILY BLESSED, EXTRAORDINARILY LUCKY.

MY FIRST TIME ON THE ROADSHOW WAS IN PHOENIX, AND THE PRODUCERS AND THEY SEEM TO LIKE ME, AND THEY SAID, WELL, OKAY, TOMORROW MORNING BE HERE AT 7:30, HAVE A HAPPY FACE ON, AND HERE'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE DOING. I WALK IN THE DOOR, AND IT WAS AMAZING. IT WAS LIKE EVERYTHING I HAD SEEN ON TV, ONLY BIGGER, CLOSER AND LOUDER. IT WAS AMAZING. AND I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, I CAN'T EVEN TELL YOU WHAT I SAW THAT DAY. IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST AMAZING EXPERIENCES OF MY LIFE, BECAUSE YOU'RE SITTING DOWN AT THIS TABLE, AND THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW YOU'RE HAVING PERSON AFTER PERSON COME UP TO YOU AND PUT DOWN THEIR TREASURES IN FRONT OF YOU, AND THEY WANT YOU TO TELL THEM ABOUT THEIR THINGS. IT WAS AMAZING. >> I CAN'T EVEN FATHOM IT. I MEAN, LOADED WITH EMOTION. THEY'VE OWNED THESE THINGS FOR A LONG TIME, THEY'VE BEEN IN THE FAMILY A LONG TIME, AND THERE'S A BIG SET-UP FOR EITHER ELATION OR THE OTHER WAY. >> AND WHAT'S SO INTERESTING ABOUT THAT, TOO, IS WHEN THAT HAPPENS, IS THAT PEOPLE ARE BRINGING THE TWO MOST PRESSURE THINGS THEY OWN, AND SORRY, BUT AS A RULE, THEY'RE NOT WORTH A LOT OF

MONEY. >> WHO HAS TO ACTUALLY EXPLAIN THAT? >> THAT'S THE STAFF. >> NO KIDDING. DO SOME PEOPLE NOT TAKE THIS WELL? >> YOU KNOW, THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE ABSOLUTELY OKAY WITH IT. THEY REALLY WANT TO SHARE WHAT THEY HAVE, THEY WANT TO SEE IF THEY CAN FIND OUT SOMETHING THEY DIDN'T KNOW BEFORE. SO THAT'S WHAT THEY COME TO US FOR. WE TRY TO TELL THEM A STORY THAT THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT. IT'S MORE OF A SHARING; THEY SHARE THEIR STORY, WE SHARE WHAT WE KNOW. AND REALLY, FOR MOST PEOPLE, THE VALUE REALLY DOESN'T MATTER. IT'S NICE TO KNOW, BUT THEY REALLY JUST WANT -- I DON'T KNOW QUITE HOW TO SAY IT. >> I THINK THEY WANT TO MAKE A CONNECTION, AND SO VERY OFTEN YOU'LL SEE PEOPLE COME IN WITH A PIECE OF FURNITURE, FOR INSTANCE, AND MY FAMILY LIVED ON THE EAST COAST, THEY TRAVELED FROM CONNECTICUT DOWN TO VIRGINIA, IS THIS A SOUTHERN PIECE OF FURNITURE? IS THIS A NORTHERN PIECE OF FURNITURE? WHICH PART OF THE FAMILY DID IT COME FROM? HOW LONG HAS IT REALLY BEEN IN MY FAMILY? YOU KNOW, THE FACTS ARE LOST IN THE ORAL HISTORY. SO IT CAN MAKE THAT KIND OF CONNECTION, OR JUST TO KNOW THAT THEIR THING IS AS OLD AS THEY THINK.

>> YEARS AGO I REMEMBER READING, MARSHA BEMKO, OF A SO-CALLED ROADSHOW EFFECT. >> WE'VE HAD AN IMMENSE EFFECT. FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE THE GRANDDADDY OF THE GENRE. SO WE'VE HAD AN IMPACT ON TELEVISION, BECAUSE THERE ARE A COUPLE DOZEN SHOWS OUT THERE NOW. WE'VE ALSO HAD AN EFFECT ON WHEN WE FIRST STARTED, WE APPRAISED DISNEY CELLS. LIKE HOW THEY USED TO DO ANIMATION, AND PEOPLE THOUGHT THEY WERE RARE. SO WE STARTED APPRAISING THEM, AND EVERYBODY BROUGHT THEM OUT. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PRICE? SUPPLY AND DEMAND. THE PRICES ON THAT WENT DOWN BECAUSE WE HELPED THE WORLD DISCOVER. NOW, THIS IS BEFORE INTERNET WHEN WE STARTED. WE'RE HERE TAPING SEASON 19. A LOT OF THAT INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET. SO WE'VE HAD A REAL IMPACT. AND AS OUR EXPERTS WILL TELL YOU, AND MAYBE JAMES HAS A STORY ABOUT IT, BUT BRIAN WITHERELL HAS TOLD THE STORY ABOUT WHEN HE APPRAISED A SENATE DESK, HE DOESN'T EVEN WANT TO APPRAISE THEM AGAIN BECAUSE EVERYBODY WHO OWNS ONE CALLS HIM. SO DEFINITELY WE HAVE AN EFFECT, BECAUSE EVEN IF IT'S NOT THE SENATE DESK THAT YOU HAVE, YOU THINK YOU HAVE THE

SENATE DESK. THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS WITH ANTIQUES, THAT MUCH IS THE OVERALL RULE. >> I HAVE TO IMAGINE, JAMES, IT'S ALMOST LIKE BEING THE NEIGHBORHOOD PLUMBER. EVERYBODY CALLS YOU. DO YOU GET PEOPLE STOPPING BY AND SAYING, WOULD YOU LOOK AT THIS, I THINK IT MIGHT BE WORTH SOMETHING? >> MY FACEBOOK WILL BLOW UP ON OCCASION. EVERY TIME THE ROADSHOW COMES TO TOWN, ALL MY FRIENDS IN THE AREA ARE LIKE, HEY, CAN YOU APPRAISE THIS, CAN YOU APPRAISE THAT. AND I'M SURE THE OTHER APPRAISERS GET IT, ALSO. ESPECIALLY LIKE WHEN WE WENT INTO AUSTIN, THE AMOUNT OF CALLS I GOT THE WEEK AFTER AUSTIN, OH, I COULDN'T MAKE IT TO ROADSHOW, BUT WOULD YOU APPRAISE THIS? AND IT IS ASTONISHING HOW MUCH STUFF WILL COME OUT OF JUST THAT. >> INTERESTING. YOU GUYS HAVE JUST ANSWERED ANOTHER QUESTION OF MINE, AND I'M WONDERING ABOUT A FOLLOW-UP TO THE ROADSHOW EFFECT, AND THAT IS, AFTER YOU LEAVE, IT SEEMS TO ME THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY HAS DRAGGED OUT ALL OF ITS STUFF, THEY'VE TAKEN A STRONG LOOK AT IT, IS THERE AN EFFECT FOR THE RETAIL MARKET IN THOSE MARKETS AFTER YOU LEAVE? DOES EVERYBODY START BRINGING THEIR STUFF INTO LOCAL ANTIQUE STORES AND

PUTTING STUFF BE UP ON EBAY? DO YOU EVER GET FEEDBACK? >> I DON'T THINK THAT HAPPENS. HERE'S THE BIG SECRET ABOUT ROADSHOW, AND IT'S COUNTERINTUITIVE, BECAUSE WHEN I FIRST STARTED PRODUCING THIS SHOW, I IMAGINED JUST WHAT PROBABLY EVERYBODY OUT THERE LISTENING IMAGINES, YOU FIND OUT YOU HAVE A TANG DYNASTY LION, OR WHATEVER IT IS, WORTH SIX FIGURES, YOU THINK, THEY'RE GOING TO SELL THAT, RIGHT? NO MATTER WHAT IT'S WORTH, NO MATTER WHAT WE TELL THEM, THE MAJORITY OF OUR GUESTS DO NOT SELL THEIR OBJECTS. EVER. THEY HAND THEM DOWN AGAIN. THEY'RE INHERITED OBJECTS WE SEE, VERY OFTEN. THE DAY YOU SELL IT, YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY IT BACK, EVEN IF YOU COULD FIND IT. SO PEOPLE THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT IT. >> AFTER 19 YEARS, I'VE GOT TO IMAGINE YOU'RE CHOCKFUL OF STORIES, JUST AMAZING STORES AFTER 19 YEARS. >> THAT'S WHAT I COLLECT. >> DO YOU HAVE A FEW FAVORITES THAT YOU CAN SHARE WITH US? I'M SO CURIOUS. >> IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT HAPPENS. I HAVE LIKE MANY FAVORITE STORIES. I THINK ONE OF MY FAVORITE STORIES IS ABOUT A FAKE. A WOMAN CAME INTO SPOKANE WITH A RUBY NECKLACE.

BEADS, RUBY BEADS ALL AROUND IT. AND SHE COMES TO THE JEWELRY TABLE WITH IT AND OUR FATHER AND SON TEAM, BERJ AND KEVIN ZAVIAN, AND BERJ WANTS TO TEST THE BEADS. HE'S PRETTY SURE THEY'RE GLASS, AND HE WANTS TO TEACH HER. SHE'S CONVINCED THIS IS A $10,000 NECKLACE. >> I SEE. >> I SAY TO HER, I WANT TO TAKE YOUR RUBY NECKLACE OVER TO THE OTHER AREA AND I'LL BE RIGHT BACK, AND SHE SAYS, ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP IT? I SAID, OH, WELL, OF COURSE NOT, I HAVE NOT KEPT ANYTHING IN ALL THESE YEARS. SO I GO OVER, WE TEST IT, IT'S GLASS. SHE TAKES IT, SHE'S LOVELY, SHE CAN SEE THE APPRAISAL, BUT SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE US. IT TOOK SOME CONVINCING. AND I THINK IT'S A HARD THING TO BELIEVE, AND I THINK THE FUNNIEST PART WAS, SHE ASKED ME IF I TRADED THE NECKLACE. AND SOMETHING WE JUST TAPED LAST WEEK IN AUSTIN, TEXAS, AND THAT IS, SOMEBODY BROUGHT IN AN OBJECT, THEY

WERE A PAIR OF GLASS VASES, BOHEMIAN GLASS VASES THAT WERE WORTH ABOUT $5,000 TO MY MEMORY. NICE. GOOD MONEY FOR GLASS VASES. THEY HAD GOTTEN THE ROADSHOW TICKETS IN APRIL, AND THIS WAS HIS WIFE'S FAVORITE THINGS, AND THE HUSBAND BROUGHT THEM IN AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THEM, AND WE LEARNED THAT HIS WIFE HAD PASSED AWAY IN BETWEEN. AND YOUR CITY HAS THIS DISTINCTION, TOO. BOTH HE AND THE EXPERT CRIED DURING THE APPRAISAL. THAT STORY REALLY TOUCHES ME, BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE SEE IS A VERY EMOTIONAL DAY. THE ONLY OTHER TIME WE HAVE HAD TEARS ON THE ROADSHOW WAS IN THIS CITY IN 2002. >> WHAT WERE THE CIRCUMSTANCES THERE? >> LARK MASON APPRAISED A TANG DYNASTY LION FOR $150,000 TO $250,000. HE HAD BEEN WAITING A LIFETIME TO SEE A LION LIKE THAT, AND HE WAS OVERWHELMED WITH EMOTION WITH SEEING IT. SO OUR APPRAISER -- GO ONTO OUR WEBSITE, LOOK UP YOUR CITY, ALBUQUERQUE, AND LOOK

IT UP IN OUR ARCHIVE THERE AND SEE THAT APPRAISAL. >> BEAUTIFUL. THIS IS THE RIFLE THAT MY GREAT, GREAT GRANDPA USED TO FEED THE FAMILY, AND THEN MY GREAT GRANDPA USED TO FEED THE FAMILY, AND MY GRANDPA PUT IT ABOVE THE FIREPLACE. >> I SEE THE SAME THING. THIS IS UNIQUE IN MY WORLD. >> JAMES, STORIES FROM YOU. ANYTHING THAT WALKED IN THAT JUST ABSOLUTELY TOUCHED YOU IN WAYS THAT YOU JUST COULDN'T EVEN HAVE IMAGINED. >> I JUST FINISHED APPRAISING SOME NASA MEMORABILIA, A BUNCH OF MANUALS ON HOW TO OPERATE THE APOLLO MODULE. I'M GETTING -- >> THIS IS WHAT I LOVE. EVEN NOW. I GOT TO LOOK AT A NOTEBOOK THAT WERNHER VON BRAUN HAD MADE WHEN HE WAS 14 YEARS OLD THAT HAD A SPACE CANNON AND A SPACE CAPSULE. THIS IS FROM THE 1920s. IT'S A VERY JULES VERN LOOKING SPACE CAPSULE. BUT IT WAS HIS 14-YEAR-OLD

HAND-DRAWING OF THE FUTURE OF WHAT HE THOUGHT ROCKETRY AND SPACE TRAVEL WOULD BE. AND 40 YEARS LATER, THERE WE ARE STEPPING ON THE MOON AND HE IS THE HEAD OF THE PROJECT THAT LED US TO THE MOON. IT WAS AN ABSOLUTELY AMAZING COLLECTION, AMAZING PIECE. >> THERE WE GO. HI, I'M MARSHA, AND I PRODUCE THE SHOW. NICE TO MEET YOU. TELL ME ABOUT WHAT YOU BROUGHT TODAY. >> WELL, I INHERITED IT FROM MY LATE MOTHER. >> INTERESTING, THAT BEGS THE QUESTION, MARSHA BEMKO. AS EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, YOU HAVE A WHOLE TEAM TO ASSESS AND APPRAISE. HOW DO YOU QUALIFY TO GET AN ITEM ON THE ROADSHOW? BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY CAN MAKE IT, CERTAINLY. >> WHAT HAPPENS IS, WE ARE GOING TO SEE, ON OUR BEST DAY, WE SEE APPROXIMATELY 5000 PEOPLE WITH TWO OBJECTS EACH. WE HAVE SEVENTY EXPERTS IN THE ROOM COVERING OVER 20 CATEGORIES. JAMES IS IN COLLECTIBLES. WE HAVE FURNITURE, GLASS, POTTERY, WHATEVER, WHEREVER THINGS.

AND WHEN IT STARTS, THE APPRAISERS ARE ON THE FRONT LINES. SO IT STARTS WITH, FIRST OF ALL, IF YOU GET TO BE ON OUR SET, YOU'RE A QUALIFIED APPRAISER WITH A GOOD REPUTATION, AND UNLESS IT'S JEWELRY, THEY SEE A GREAT OBJECT COMING FROM ACROSS THE ROOM. THEY HAVE TRAINED EYES, AND THEY'RE JUST HOPING, IF THREE OF THEM ARE SITTING IN COLLECTIBLES, THAT THAT GREAT OBJECT COMES IN FRONT OF THEM. AND WHAT THEY WILL DO IS, MOST PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME AND LEARN THAT THEIR MUG IS WORTH $2 AND IT'S CIRCA 2014, AND WHATEVER. YOU USE IT TO HOLD LIQUID. THE PEOPLE WHO COME TO BE TAPED ARE GOING TO STAND, AND THE APPRAISER IS GOING TO SAY, WILL YOU WAIT WHILE WE GET A PRODUCER. SO THE APPRAISERS ARE THE ONES WHO PICK, TO START, SOMETHING THAT JAZZES THEM, SOMETHING THAT EXCITES THEM AND THEY PITCH EITHER ME OR TWO OTHER PEOPLE WORKING WITH ME TO CONVINCE US TO TAPE IT. >> REALLY? I CAN IMAGINE THESE DISCUSSIONS MUST BE VERY PASSIONATE. >> THEY ARE. >> WOW.

>> AND THE HARDEST THING ABOUT THAT JOB IS THE OBVIOUS THINGS ARE THE EASIEST TO SAY YES TO, LIKE THE TANG DYNASTY LION, IT'S ALL THE REST OF THE STUFF, BECAUSE YOU COULD SAY YES TO ALMOST EVERYTHING. >> AND THAT BRINGS ANOTHER QUESTION BACK TO JAMES SUPP, AS A MATTER OF FACT. AS AN APPRAISER. YOU DEAL, FROM READING YOUR BIO, IN SOME FAIRLY ESOTERIC STUFF. AND SO TO CONVINCE THE PRODUCERS THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY A VERY COOL THING THAT HAS VALUE WHEN NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN IT BEFORE, THAT COULD BE HARD. >> ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS IS, THEY WORK WITH US AND THEY ARE OUR ADVOCATES, TOO. WE TRY TO CONVINCE THEM, BUT THEY'LL TRY TO FIND ANGLES THAT WE DIDN'T THINK ABOUT, ABOUT. THEY ALSO LOOK OUT FOR US. IF WE HAVE A GUEST WHO, YOU KNOW, MIGHT NOT BE TELLING THE ENTIRE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT THEY HAVE OR, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, THEY'LL TRY TO FERRET THAT OUT AND HELP US OUT SO WE DON'T GO ON CAMERA WITH SOMETHING WE SHOULDN'T BE. A LOT OF THESE THINGS, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE VALUE, IT'S ABOUT THE STORY BEHIND IT. PEOPLE READ INTO THESE THINGS BECAUSE THEY CARE ABOUT THEM, AND AS MARSHA

SAID EARLIER, WE LOVE WHAT WE DO, WE LOVE TELLING THESE STORIES BACK TO THESE PEOPLE, AND WE LOVE HELPING THEM DISCOVER SOMETHING THAT THEY MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN BEFORE. >> GOOD STUFF. DON'T MAKE IT TEN MORE YEARS, MAKE IT FIVE. >> WE'LL KEEP THAT IN MIND. WE'LL MAKE YOU A FOUR-TIMER, OUR FIRST. >> THAT WOULD BE GREAT. >> WE'RE BACK AT THE LINE TABLE WITH OUR OPINION PANELISTS. EARLIER THIS WEEK, THE CHAIR OF THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE OVERSIGHT BOARD SENT A LETTER TO MAYOR BERRY AND POLICE CHIEF GORDON EDEN CHANGES IN APD POLICY. APD IS REQUIRED TO MAKE REFORMS UNDER AN AGREEMENT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, AS YOU KNOW. NOW, THAT CONSENT DECREE HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR NEARLY A YEAR, AND SOPHIE, BASED ON THE LETTER FROM THE BOARD, IS THERE ENOUGH TRANSPARENCY RIGHT NOW AS WE LOOK AT THE REFORM PROCESS, OR IS WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR TOO MUCH IN THAT LETTER, OR IS THAT WHERE WE SHOULD BE GOING, ANYWAY? >> I DON'T THINK THEY'RE ASKING FOR TOO MUCH. BASICALLY, AND JUST TO TAKE A STEP BACK, I THINK IT IS WORTH POINTING OUT THAT THE POLICE OVERSIGHT BOARD MAYBE A WEEK AGO ANNOUNCED IT WAS UP AND RUNNING AND TRAINED. SO THIS IS ONE OF THE FIRST OFFICIAL ACTS THAT WE HAVE

SEEN FROM THIS BOARD, AND RIGHT AWAY THEY'RE SAYING, LISTEN, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE VETTING ANY POLICY CHANGES, AND WE BELIEVE THAT VETTING MEANS BEFORE THE FACT, NOT AFTER THE FACT. AND I THOUGHT IT WAS ACTUALLY A PRETTY STRONG ENTRY OUT OF THE GATE FOR THIS COMMISSION. MY HOPE IS THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO FOLLOW-UP AND MAKE THAT STICK. NO, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE ASKING FOR TOO MUCH. THEY'RE BASICALLY ASKING FOR WHAT I THINK THE ALBUQUERQUE PUBLIC WAS LOOKING FOR, WHICH IS A COMMISSION WITH SOME TEETH. >> THERE YOU GO. PICK UP ON THAT, ERIC GRIEGO, IF YOU WOULD. I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, BY THE WAY, THAT IS WHAT THE PUBLIC HAS BEEN VERY STRONGLY ASKING FOR. >> THAT'S HOW WE GOT HERE, RIGHT, AND WE'VE SAID THIS WE'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION FOR 20 YEARS. AND EVERY TIME WE'VE TRIED TO GIVE THAT ENTITY SOME ROOT POWER, SOME AUTHORITY, WE'VE HAD PUSH BACK. UNFORTUNATELY SOMETIMES THE UNION HAS COME IN STRONGLY, OTHER FOLKS HAVE COME IN STRONGLY, AND WE WATERED IT DOWN AND WATERED IT DOWN, AND THE NET RESULT IS IT GOT US TO WHERE WE ARE. SO FINALLY THIS CRISIS HAS GIVEN US AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HONEST AND SOBER ABOUT A REAL SOLUTION, AND IT'S BACK

TO BUSINESS AS USUAL. THE STUFF GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES -- WHEN I WAS ON COUNCIL, THERE WAS BALD-FACED INTIMIDATION GOING ON, FOLKS BEING CALLED ANTI-LAW ENFORCEMENT, EVEN IN MY CASE AND I HAD FAMILY MEMBERS IN THE DEPARTMENT, IF YOU DIDN'T SAY, WE DON'T WANT ANY CITIZEN OVERSIGHT. AND IT'S HOW WE GOT HERE. SO THIS IS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY. IF THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE FOLKS AT APD, LEADERSHIP AT APD ARE NOT ABSOLUTELY TRANSPARENT AND INCLUSIVE AND BRINGING THE COMMUNITY TO THE TABLE, THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM, AND I HOPE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WEIGHS IN ON THIS, BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS. IT'S HOW WE GOT HERE. >> EXACTLY RIGHT. PLEASE. >> I THINK THIS IS REALLY HURTING THE MAYOR. THE MAYOR CAME FORWARD AND SAID, YOU KNOW, WE STARTED THIS WHOLE THING OFF WHERE HE KIND OF LET EVERYBODY PROBLEM, BUT HE WAS GOING TO FIX THE PROBLEM, THERE WAS A LOT OF THINGS WE'VE GOT TO DO, HE WENT OUT AND TALKED TO ALL THESE STAKEHOLDERS, WE HAD ALL THESE MEETINGS, WE HAD ALL OF THIS STUFF, AND KIND OF LIKE ERIC SAID, IT SEEMS TO BE BUSINESS AS

USUAL. IT SEEMS TO BE, THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT, NOW WE'RE GOING TO DO IT OUR WAY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT, NOW WE'RE GOING TO DO IT OUR WAY. AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO HURT HIM. I THINK THE MAYOR IS REALLY HURTING HIMSELF IF HE HAS ANY PLANS FOR RUNNING FOR HIGHER OFFICE, BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF IN ALBUQUERQUE THE THE CHICKENS COME HOME TO ROOST, AND I THINK HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO ANSWER FOR. AND I DON'T THINK HE'S SETTING HIMSELF UP TO SAY -- YOU KNOW, HE'S GOING TO GO WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ON OUR SIDE, THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, WANT HIM TO DO. LOOK, I'M TOUGH ON CRIME, I'M TRANSPARENT. WELL, YOU HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY, AND WHERE ARE YOU? YOU PUT TOGETHER THIS COMMISSION, THE DOJ CAME IN, AND HE'S KIND OF BEEN ALL OVER THE MAP. CONSERVATIVES WERE FURIOUS THAT HE WELCOMED THE DOJ. REPUBLICANS ARE LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? NO, NO, WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH THEM. SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO WORK WITH THEM, THEN WORK WITH THEM. DON'T WORK WITH THEM, AND THEN A WINK AND A NOD TO THE CAMERA AND DO SOMETHING ON THE OTHER SIDE. SO THERE'S STILL TIME FOR HIM TO FIX IT. I THINK HE CAN STEP FORWARD AND SAY, LOOK, MISUNDERSTANDING, SORRY ABOUT THIS, YOU'RE RIGHT, LET'S FIX THIS, LET'S GO ON. I HOPE THAT'S WHAT HE DOES, BECAUSE I THINK THIS APD ISSUE IS GOING TO BE WHAT DEFINES RJ'S TIME AS MAYOR. NOT NECESSARILY IS IT FAIR,

BUT I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO DEFINE HIM, AND I THINK HE HAS A CHANCE TO FIX IT. HE JUST NEEDS TO STEP UP AND DO IT. >> ABSOLUTELY. YOU KNOW, MERRITT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE USE OF FORCE POLICIES, SERIOUS STUFF, NOT JUST INTERNAL THINGS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE IN THE PUBLIC'S BEST INTERESTS. THIS COULD NOT BE MORE CLEAR, LIKE SENATOR GRIEGO MENTIONED, THAT THIS IS THE FULCRUM, THAT THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY WAS WAITING TO SEE FUNCTIONING WELL, BEING WELL. TALK ABOUT THE MISSED OPPORTUNITY, LIKE DAN MENTIONED, IS THIS SOMETHING THE MAYOR, OR IS IT GORDEN EDEN, THE CHIEF, THAT SHOULD STEP OUT AND SAY, NO, WE SHOULD BACK UP AND DO EXACTLY WHAT WE SAID WE WERE GOING TO DO HERE. WHO SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE HERE? POLICE CHIEF AS AN EMPLOYEE OF THE CITY, AND THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE. I THINK THEY BOTH NEED TO. ALL THE PANELISTS MADE POINTS THAT I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH. THE POLICE OVERSIGHT BOARD, I THINK THEY'VE REALLY DONE THIS RIGHT. THEY SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE NOT READY TO TAKE THINGS, WE NEED SOME TRAINING, WE NEED TO GET ORGANIZED, GIVE US SOME TIME. OKAY, WE HAVE AN

ANNOUNCEMENT, WE'RE READY TO GO, AND HERE'S THE LETTER. OKAY, THIS IS WHAT WE EXPECT OF YOU, I THINK THAT'S FANTASTIC. THEY'VE SET A VERY GOOD TONE. YET, AS ERIC POINTS OUT, THIS HAS BEEN A CULTURAL PROBLEM DECADES IN THE MAKING, AND TO DAN'S POINT, YOU KNOW, THIS ADMINISTRATION IS LIKE, WELL, WE INHERITED THIS. WELL, THEY OWN IT NOW. THEY OWN IT NOW. SO I THINK, THOUGH, IT'S GOING TO BE A HUGE CHALLENGE. LAW ENFORCEMENT IS LIKE THE MILITARY. THE MILITARY WORKS FOR GUYS IN SUITS, BUT THEY WANT TO KEEP ALL THEIR STUFF TO THEMSELVES. THE WHOLE PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST ISSUE, THAT'S NOT, I DON'T THINK, TRYING TO STONEWALL THE PUBLIC, THAT'S JUST A CULTURE OF, LET'S NOT TELL THAT LAWYER THIS, IT'LL HURT OUR CASE. >> APD FORWARD HAS COME OUT IN SUPPORT OF THIS IDEA, AS WELL, AND AGAIN, I HAVE TO ASK ALMOST THE SAME QUESTION FOR THE WHOLE SEGMENT, IT WOULD SEEM TO ME IF YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THIS EARLY AND CLEARLY AS THE ADMINISTRATION, YOU WOULD WIN A LOT OF POINTS ON THIS, A TON OF POINTS WITH THE COMMUNITY. THAT'S THE OPPORTUNITY I THINK DAN IS ARTICULATING.

THIS IS A SLAM DUNK, IT SEEMS TO ME. >> I JUST THINK IT'S SO UNFORTUNATE THAT THIS ISSUE HAS DEFINED NOT ONLY MAYOR BERRY, BUT THE CITY. THE MOST PUBLICITY WE HAVE HAD OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS HAS BEEN OVER THIS CRISIS, AND IT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE MAYOR AND THE CHIEF TO STEP FORWARD AND SAY, WE'RE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS. OUR COMMUNITY HAS TOLD US, AND WE'VE INVITED THEM TO TELL US. WE'VE HAD THIS EXHAUSTIVE PROCESS NOT JUST ON THIS ISSUE OF MENTAL HEALTH, BUT A LOT OF ISSUES, AND HERE THEY'RE SAYING, OKAY, IS THIS PRO FORMA, AS DAN SAID, IS THIS JUST KABUKI, OR IS THIS SERIOUS. ARE YOU SERIOUS ABOUT CHANGING THE CULTURE. THIS IS NOT ABOUT PUNISHING ANY POLICE OFFICERS, THIS IS ABOUT CHANGING THE CULTURE OF A DEPARTMENT THAT'S BEEN IN NEED OF CULTURAL CHANGES FOR YEARS. >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> SO THIS IS ABOUT LEADERSHIP, AND I'M REALLY -- I WILL BE DISAPPOINTED. I'M HOPEFUL, AS DAN SAID, THAT THEY WILL SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, THIS WAS MISCONSTRUED, WE ABSOLUTELY WANT TO HEAR THIS, WE ABSOLUTELY WANT TO TAKE THE RECOMMENDATIONS INTO ACCOUNT, THE PEOPLE HAVE DONE A LOT OF WORK, AND LET'S DO THIS AS A COMMUNITY, NOT A TOP-DOWN SORT OF PROCESS, WHICH IS

HOW WE GOT HERE. >> SOPHIE, ANOTHER THING SORT OF HOVERING OVER THIS, AND I WONDER IF THIS IS PART OF THE SITUATION, WE HAVE ANOTHER POTENTIAL WHISTLE-BLOWER LAWSUIT INSIDE APD ABOUT RECORDS ALLEGEDLY BEING COVERED UP, NOT RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC. >> FOR ME, THE RENALDO CHAVEZ STORY -- TO BACKGROUND FOR FOLKS WHO ARE WATCHING, ESSENTIALLY THE RECORDS KEEPER FOR APD GETS FIRED AND THEN COMES OUT WITH A WHISTLE-BLOWER SUIT IN WHICH HE SAYS, I WAS INSTRUCTED NOT TO RELEASE INFORMATION ON A WIDE RANGE OF POLICE ISSUES, CASES THAT WERE HAPPENING, ETC., THAT I RECEIVED EXTRAORDINARY PRESSURE FROM ABOVE NOT TO RELEASE PUBLIC RECORDS THAT PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN RELEASED, AND AS A PART OF HIS ALLEGATIONS, HE STATED THAT HE HAS A DATABASE THAT DOCUMENTS ALL OF THAT COMMUNICATION. >> THE ADMINISTRATION IS SAYING THAT DOESN'T EXIST. >> THEY'RE SAYING IT DOESN'T EXIST, AND IT'S A TOUGH MOMENT. I WOULD SAY IN TERMS OF OPTICS, I SORT OF HAD TO

LAUGH A LITTLE BIT. IT'S A TOUGH MOMENT WHEN YOUR CHIEF RECORDS KEEPER AND YOUR GATEKEEPER FOR YOUR RECORDS SAYS THEY'RE THERE, AND YOU SAY, OH, NO, THEY'RE NOT. IT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE HAS BEEN CLAIMING THEY'VE BEEN DOING. THEY NEED TO FIND ANOTHER WAY I THINK TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE, BECAUSE AT LEAST IN PUBLIC PERCEPTION, I DON'T THINK, OH, NO, IT DOESN'T EXIST, FLIES GIVEN THE ALLEGATIONS OUT THERE. >> ESPECIALLY IF IT COMES TO LIGHT. >> IT'S THE INTERNAL PROBLEM WITH APD THAT ERIC HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT. THIS IS NOT ONE BAD ISSUE, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED. THERE IS A SYSTEMIC PROBLEM IN THE ENTIRE HIERARCHY OF APD. IT'S FROM BOTTOM-UP/TOP-DOWN. WHETHER IT'S THE RECORDS CLERK, THE POLICE ON THE STREETS, THE DWI'S, THE SERGEANTS, THE FIGHTING IN BARS, GO THROUGH THE LIST OF THINGS AND THERE IS THIS PROBLEM. AND FOR SOME REASON, THIS APD PROBLEM TO MAYORS IS LIKE THE UFO'S TO PRESIDENTS. THEY ALL WANT TO TELL YOU ABOUT THE UFO'S, BUT WHEN THEY BECOME PRESIDENT THEY'RE LIKE, OH, NO, NEVER ANY UFO'S. EVERYONE IS ON FIXING APD. THEY'RE LIKE, WE'RE GOING TO FIX APD. AND THEN, THERE'S NO PROBLEM

WITH APD, DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT APD, GOT A NEW POLICE CHIEF. THE ANSWER IS ALWAYS A NEW POLICE CHIEF. I JUST THINK THIS IS GOING TO DEFINE RJ BERRY. I THINK THERE'S STILL TIME. THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT I BELIEVE THAT THE MAYOR HAS PLANS TO RUN FOR SOMETHING ELSE. HE SAYS HE'S NOT RUNNING FOR MAYOR. THAT LEAVES NOT MUCH ELSE BUT GOVERNOR. I WOULD NOT WANT TO BE TRAVELING AROUND THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO TELLING PEOPLE WHY I SHOULD BE THE GOVERNOR OF NEW MEXICO WHEN THE DOJ IS ANGRY AT ME, THE CITIZEN ADVISORY BOARD IS ANGRY AT ME, THE APD SITUATION IS WORSE THAN IT HAS EVER BEEN. >> AND HE WILL HAVE CONSTITUENTS AROUND THE STATE SAYING, I'M AFRAID TO GO TO ALBUQUERQUE BECAUSE OF WHAT I HEAR ON THE NEWS. >> THAT'S RIGHT, WHILE YOU WERE MAYOR. SO I THINK THERE'S A REAL OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM TO STEP FORWARD AND SHOW LEADERSHIP. BUT YOU KNOW, GENE, YOU ASKED EARLIER, IS IT THE POLICE CHIEF OR THE MAYOR. IT'S THE MAYOR. THE MAYOR IS THE GUY. THE BUCK STOPS HERE. HE'S THE GUY THAT WAS ELECTED TO BE IN CHARGE. THE POLICE CHIEF DOESN'T SAY, MOVE OVER MAYOR AND LET ME TAKE CARE OF THIS, IT'S THE MAYOR'S JOB. NOW, IF THE MAYOR WANTS TO LET THE POLICE CHIEF GO DO TO, HE NEEDS TO DIRECT HIM TO GO DO IT. >> DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE SHOULDER TO SHOULDER? >> I THINK THEY SHOULD BE.

I THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE SOME PEOPLE WITH THE COMMUNITY THERE WITH THEM, THEY SHOULD HAVE THE CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE. THIS COMMUNITY AND THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY IS STARVING TO KNOW THAT APD IS GETTING FIXED, AND I THINK THIS WHISTLE-BLOWER SUIT SHOWS THAT THIS PROBLEM PERMEATES THE ENTIRE DEPARTMENT. >> ONE COMMENT. I AGREE HEARTILY WITH DAN, BUT ON THE PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST, I'VE BEEN A GOVERNMENT SPOKESPERSON, I'VE TRAINED GOVERNMENT SPOKES PEOPLE, I'LL GIVE SOME FREE ADVICE TO EVERY SPOKES PERSON IN NEW MEXICO. IF SOMETHING IS AVAILABLE BY FREEDOM OF INFORMATION OR PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST. JUST RELEASE IT. DON'T MAKE THEM GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. JUST GIVE IT TO THEM. YOU WILL HAVE A MUCH BETTER OUTCOME. BECAUSE THE LONGER YOU GO AND THE HARDER YOU MAKE IT, THE MORE IT SEEMS YOU'RE TRYING TO COVER SOMETHING UP. IT'S NOT POLICY, IT'S JUST BUYING TIME. SO PUT IT OUT. >> HOW WOULD YOU APPROACH THIS WHISTLE-BLOWER SITUATION? WHAT'S THE MOVE FOR THE ADMINISTRATION THERE? IS THERE A WAY FOR THEM TO GET IN FRONT OF THAT CURVE AND BEYOND JUST SAYING THESE THINGS DON'T EXIST?

>> WELL, I THINK THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO RESPOND TO THE SUIT, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO, REALLY, SHARE THE POLICY, THIS IS OUR POLICY, AND PERHAPS OUR POLICY NEEDS TO BE CHANGED, AND PERHAPS THIS IS A TOPIC FOR THE POLICE OVERSIGHT BOARD, WHAT IS YOUR POLICY. >> GOTCHA. >> BECAUSE, AGAIN, TO ME IF IT'S RELEASABLE BY LAW, THEN JUST RELEASE IT. DON'T PUT PEOPLE THROUGH THE PROCESS. >> AND THIS IS AN ISSUE WITH THE INSPECTOR GENERAL. WHEN WE TRIED TO HAVE THEM COVER THE ISSUE WITH SUBPOENA AUTHORITY, IT WAS THE POLICE UNION THAT SAID, CARVE THEM OUT, CARVE THEM OUT, WE HAVE OUR OWN PROCESS, WE HAVE A GOOD PROCESS. WE TRIED BOLSTERING THAT PROCESS, AS THESE FOLKS HAVE, AND IT'S SAD BECAUSE SOME OF THE FOLKS WHO WERE SPEAKING FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND I DON'T THINK THEY SPEAK FOR RANK AND FILE FOLKS, NECESSARILY, ARE SAYING, NO, WE'RE SORT OF UNTOUCHABLE, WE CAN DEAL WITH THIS OURSELVES. IT GETS TO THIS ISSUE OF, IS THE PUBLIC REALLY AT THE TABLE OR NOT, AND I THINK THE PUBLIC ABSOLUTELY HAS TO HAVE A REAL ROLE IN THIS.

OTHERWISE IT'S NEVER GOING TO BE LEGITIMATE IN THE PUBLIC'S EYES. >> THERE YOU GO. UP NEXT, WE DISCUSS A NEWLY RELEASED ENERGY PLAN FOR THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO. >> OUR ECONOMY IS STAGNATING RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF OIL AND GAS PRICES. ALSO, THE COAL-PRODUCING BHP BILLITON IS MOVING OUT OF FARMINGTON. THAT'S 200 JOBS GOING. DO WE HAVE JOBS THE NEXT SIX MONTHS IN SOLAR? >> HERE AT NEW MEXICO PBS, WE BRING YOU DIFFERENT PROGRAMS EACH WEEK TO HELP YOU LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR COMMUNITY AND THE REST OF THE WORLD. IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN NEW MEXICO HISTORY, YOU'LL WANT TO CHECK OUT THE NEXT EDITION OF COLORES. NEW MEXICO FRESCO ARTIST, FREDERICO VIGIL, SHARES HOW THE PEOPLE OF OUR STATE INSPIRED THE FRESCO HE PAINTED IN THE TORREON OF THE NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER. COLORES AIRS SATURDAY AFTERNOONS AT 4:00 RIGHT HERE ON NEW MEXICO PBS. >> WHEN I WALKED INTO THIS

SPACE AND THEY SAID, HERE'S THE WALL FOR YOU, I FELT LIKE ONE OF THE LUCKIEST GUYS IN THE WORLD. (MUSIC) >> THE FRESCO IS OVER 4000 SQUARE FEET OF CONCAVE WALL. LITTLE DID WE REALIZE UPON THE COMPLETION OF IT THAT WE WERE GOING TO CREATE THE LARGEST CONCAVE FRESCO IN NORTH AMERICA. (MUSIC) >> I'M GENE GRANT HERE AT THE TABLE WITH THIS WEEK'S

LINE OPINION PANELISTS. GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ UNVEALED A COMPREHENSIVE ENERGY PLAN FOR THE STATE HER OFFICE SAID IT'S THE FIRST TIME A PLAN LIKE THIS HAS BEEN CREATED IN MORE THAN 25 YEARS. IT INCLUDES PLANS FOR NEW INFRASTRUCTURE AND USING ENERGY SOURCES FROM BOTH OIL AND GAS AND RENEWABLES. SENATOR GRIEGO, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU AN INTERESTING QUESTION HERE. I'M THINKING ABOUT OUR PANEL TODAY. WE'VE GOT SOME COAL CONTRACTS ENDING HERE IN ABOUT TWO YEARS, BIG ONES. AM I BEING TOO CYNICAL WHEN I SAY, IS THIS ENERGY PLAN NOW ON THE TABLE BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF COAL CONTRACTS ABOUT TO END, OR IS THIS THE RIGHT THING TO DO BECAUSE IT'S BEEN 25 YEARS? WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT ON THIS? >> WELL, I'M TRYING TO FIND THE THEIR THERE IN THE IT KIND OF SOUNDS LIKE BUSINESS AS USUAL. THERE'S LANGUAGE IN THERE ABOUT RENEWABLES, BUT REALLY IT'S MORE OF THE SAME. IF ANYTHING, IT'S TIPPING ITS HAT TO MORE NATURAL GAS PRODUCTION. AND I GET IT, THERE'S A LOT OF JOBS AND A LOT OF ECONOMIC IN THOSE SECTORS, BUT I WAS LOOKING AT THE SOLAR INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION RANKING OF THE TOP TEN STATES FOR SOLAR, AND WE

ARE -- GEOGRAPHICALLY AND ENVIRONMENTALLY WE SHOULD BE THE FIRST OR SECOND PRODUCER IN TERMS OF CAPABILITY FOR SOLAR ENERGY. WE'RE 10th. STATES LIKE NEW JERSEY, MASSACHUSETTS, NEW YORK ARE PRODUCING MORE SOLAR ENERGY. THERE'S NO REAL DEFINITE POLICY FUNDING AROUND PROMOTING SOLAR ENERGY. EVEN OUR NEIGHBORS IN TEXAS, WHICH NOT EXACTLY -- IT'S A BIG PETROLEUM STATE, A VERY CONSERVATIVE STATE, THEY'RE PRODUCING MORE. THEY MADE A DECISION TO PRODUCE MORE WIND ENERGY, AND THEY'RE THE TOP PRODUCING WIND ENERGY. SO WHAT WE NEED IS A TRULY BALANCED ENERGY POLICY. I DON'T THINK THIS POLICY DOES THAT AT ALL. AND THE IRONY IS AT THE SAME TIME SAYING, SORT OF WRINGING OUR HANDS, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T BE SO DEPENDENT ON THE FLUCTUATION OF THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY BECAUSE THAT'S HOW WE FUND EDUCATION AND THE STATE IS TOO DEPENDENT ON IT, AT THE SAME TIME THERE IS NO PLAN FOR REALLY RAMPING UP SOLAR, SERIOUSLY, THERE'S NO PLAN FOR REALLY RAMPING UP WIND, WHEN THOSE TWO THINGS WOULD REDUCE OUR RELIANCE. IT'S SORT OF LIKE, HMM,

LET'S TRY A LITTLE BIT OF EVERYTHING AND KEEP DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING, AND LET'S SEE HOW IT GOES. >> INTERESTING. YOUR INITIAL THOUGHTS, MERRITT ALLEN, WHEN YOU READ THIS. >> ACTUALLY, I THOUGHT IT SHOWED A WAY TO GET TO THE RENEWABLES FROM HERE, WHICH IS THE NONRENEWABLE. IT'S A FACT THAT OUR ECONOMY BECAUSE OF OIL AND GAS PRICES. ALSO, THE COAL-PRODUCING AREAS ARE GETTING HIT. BHP BILLITON IS MOVING OUT OF FARMINGTON. THAT'S ABOUT 200 JOBS GOING. DO WE HAVE JOBS THE NEXT SIX MONTHS IN SOLAR? NO. BUT I THINK -- >> DOES THE PLAN ADDRESS THAT, IN YOUR VIEW? DOES THE PLAN ADDRESS THE CROSSOVER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT UNTIL MORE RENEWABLES COME ONLINE AND CAN PICK UP MORE PERCENTAGES OF OUR NEEDS? >> I THINK SO. I THINK SO, BECAUSE AS I RECALL, IT WAS CALLING FOR STUDIES TO BE DONE IN NEW MEXICO, INVITING TECHNOLOGY FIRMS TO COME AND TEST HERE, BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF LAND THAT'S GREAT FOR TESTING. IT'S A GREAT WAY TO USE

WHITE SANDS, WHICH DOES A LOT OF PUBLIC/PRIVATE TYPE TESTING. WE HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE HERE WITHOUT A LOT OF INVESTMENTS, SO I FEEL LIKE IT DOES GET US THERE AND IT POSITIONS US AS A LEADER IN THE INDUSTRY WITHOUT HAVING TO TAP INTO A LOT OF RESOURCES, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE. >> INTERESTING. SOPHIE, WE DISCUSSED THIS AT THIS TABLE MANY TIMES, THE COLD TURKEY APPROACH WITH RENEWABLES. SET A PLAN WITH A DATE, THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS PERCENTAGE. CAN WE GET TO THAT POINT? >> TO MERRITT'S POINT, IF WE HAD GOTTEN OFF THE DIME ANY OF THE MANY TIMES SINCE, WHAT, THE SEVENTIES WHEN STARTED NATIONALLY, AND ANY TIME SINCE WE'VE STARTED DISCUSSING IT AT THIS TABLE, IF WE HAD GOTTEN OFF THE DIME ON SOLAR AND WIND AT ANY POINT, THAT SIX-MONTH GAP WOULDN'T EXIST BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE THE TECHNOLOGIES IN PLACE, WE WOULD HAVE EVERYTHING READY TO GO, AND THERE'S BEEN NOTHING BUT DELAY, DELAY, DELAY. I THINK IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE THAT THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY APPEARS TO LOVE THIS PLAN, AND THAT IS NOT AN ALTRUISTIC INDUSTRY.

THAT IS AN INDUSTRY THAT IS VERY MUCH FOCUSED ON THEIR ON BOTTOM LINE AND THEIR OWN INTERESTS. COAL DID NOT EXACTLY FEEL ILL ABOUT IT, EITHER. AND HERE WE SEE THE RENEWABLES SAYING, WELL, IT'S A NICE THOUGHT, BUT WE'RE NOT REALLY GETTING WHAT WE NEED HERE. SO MY SENSE IS, NO, THIS IS A GREAT THING FOR OIL AND GAS, A GREAT THING FOR COAL, NOT SO MUCH FOR THE PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO, NOT SO MUCH FOR RENEWABLES. WE'RE LOOKING, AS ERIC SAID EARLIER, WE'RE LOOKING AT A SITUATION IN WHICH THE VALUE ON THE MARKET OF OUR OIL AND GAS RESOURCES IS DROPPING. WE DON'T SEE THAT IT'S GOING TO GO UP ANY TIME SOON. WHY DO WE CONTINUALLY SHORE UP THIS OLD DIRTY TECHNOLOGY? >> DAN, SOME MONTHS AGO YOU FIRED A WARNING HERE AT THIS TABLE ABOUT OIL GOING TO $40 OR LESS A BARREL, AND WHAT COULD BE HAPPENING HERE IN NEW MEXICO BECAUSE OF THAT. THAT BEING SAID, DOES THAT NOT MAKE THE POINT THAT RENEWABLES SHOULD BE A HURRY UP PROCESS, THAT WE SHOULD BE PUSHING A LITTLE BIT

HARDER? >> WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU MEAN BY A HURRY UP FIRST OF ALL, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO GO INTO THE WHOLE PROBLEM WITH THE ISSUES, GENE, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, EVERYBODY IS RIGHT. WE HAVE AN ABUNDANCE OF WIND AND SOLAR, BUT WE GOT WAY TO GET THE POWER TO ANYWHERE. THE WIND AND SOLAR TRANSMISSION IS A HUGE PROBLEM, AND THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM YOU FIX FOR $10 MILLION. THAT'S A MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR PROBLEM. WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO DO THAT, AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR ISN'T RUNNING IN TO DO THAT. THE OTHER PROBLEM IS THAT THE SOLAR ENERGY HAS BEEN DOING A LOT OF GOOD. THERE'S GREAT BUSINESSES IN NEW MEXICO THAT ARE DOING PHENOMENAL, THEY'RE EMPLOYING A LOT OF PEOPLE, BUT IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE HUGE TAX SUBSIDY, IT'S A DIFFICULT OPPORTUNITY TO GET PEOPLE TO BUY THE ENERGY TO DO IT. SO THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. WE'RE MOVING CLOSER. NEW MEXICO IS GOING TO BE ON THE CUTTING EDGE I THINK ONCE WE FIGURE OUT THE BATTERY SITUATION WITH SOLAR AND WIND AND THE STORAGE CAPABILITIES. THAT'S GOING TO MAKE US MORE LIKELY TO BE A PLAYER HERE. WHY IS NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY A BIGGER PLAYER THAN US IN PLACES LIKE SOLAR? BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE

INFRASTRUCTURE. THEY'VE GOT EIGHT TRILLION PEOPLE GETTING ENERGY. WE DON'T HAVE IT. YOU GO PUT A WIND FARM OUT IN DORA, NEW MEXICO, THERE'S FOUR POWER LINES FROM DORA TO WHEREVER IT NEEDS TO GO TO THE CO-OP. THEY CAN'T HANDLE IT. NOW, TO THE DIRTY OIL AND GAS STUFF, I THINK THE PRICE OF OIL IS GOING TO GO BACK UP. I THINK WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE WITH THIS WHOLE DEBATE WITH IRAN, I THINK THE DEAL IS GOING TO BE CUT IN D.C. THAT WE'RE GOING TO START EXPORTING OUR OIL AGAIN, AND ONCE WE START EXPORTING OIL AND THEY MAKE THAT CHANGE IN WASHINGTON, WE CAN START EXPORTING NEW MEXICO, AND IT'S GOING TO GO THROUGH THE ROOF. IT'S GOING TO GO THROUGH THE ROOF. GAS HAS BEEN SUSTAINING. GAS HAS BEEN DOING MUCH BETTER. THERE IS A MOVEMENT TO DO MORE WITH GAS THAN THERE HAS BEEN. BUT I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, THERE HAS TO BE A BALANCE. DO WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO QUIT BEING SO DEPENDENT ON OIL AND GAS AND COAL? I DON'T THINK ANYBODY DENIES THAT. BUT THE PROBLEM IS, AT WHAT COST. DO WE WANT TO MAKE OURSELVES SO THAT WE'RE PAYING $800 A DAY TO HEAT AND COOL OUR HOMES, OR DO WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO MIRROR THAT. I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S PLAN STARTS THAT TRANSITION. I DO THINK IT'S THE FIRST GOVERNOR IN MY LIFETIME THAT'S TAKEN A COMPREHENSIVE

LOOK AT THIS STUFF AND ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THERE HAS TO BE SOME RENEWABLE ENERGIES. SO I THINK WE'RE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. AT LEAST IT GIVES US A BASELINE. >> MERRITT, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE IDEA OF NUCLEAR, AND THE CONTEXT OF THIS IS, LANL HAS HAD SOME REALLY INTERESTING MINIATURE NUCLEAR REACTORS THAT ARE JUST FASCINATING WHEN YOU READ ABOUT THEM AND GET TOLD HOW THEY WORK. YOU CAN BURY SOME OF THEM UNDERGROUND. THEY CAN LIGHT UP ENTIRE COMMUNITIES. IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY THERE WITH NUCLEAR FOR NEW MEXICO, AS WELL? >> ABSOLUTELY. NOW, OF COURSE THE LEAD IN WHAT YOU WANT TO CALL THE PORTABLE OR THE MINIATURE NUCLEAR REACTORS COMES FROM VIRGINIA, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE PREPONDERANCE OF NAVY NUCLEAR OFFICERS RETIRED TO. BUT WE'VE GOT A LOT OF GOOD NAVY NUKES IN NEW MEXICO. >> LET'S MAKE THEM A DEAL. >> NEW MEXICO IS A LOT NICER THAN VIRGINIA. I MOVED HERE FROM VIRGINIA. >> I JUST WANT TO SAY ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE PIECE, WE HAVE HAD A DEEP CONVERSATION ABOUT BUILDING AN INFRASTRUCTURE, AND YES, IT'S EXPENSIVE, AND THERE ARE PEOPLE INTERESTED, AND TO DO THAT, TO REALLY SHOW LEADERSHIP ON AN ENERGY

POLICY, WE'RE GOING TO NEED THE GOVERNOR TO SAY, WE WANT TO WORK WITH THE FEDS AND WE WANT TO WORK WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO TRY TO GET THIS BUILT OUT. IT'S SORT OF THIS CHICKEN AND EGG THING. WE'RE NEVER GOING TO GET THAT ENERGY ONLINE UNTIL WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY, BUT UNTIL WE SAY, LOOK, IF WE CAN MUSTER THE WILL TO BUILD MAJOR INFRASTRUCTURE HIGHWAYS, ALL THE OTHER THINGS WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO BUILD AS A NATION, AND AS A STATE YOU BUILD MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF INFRASTRUCTURE WITH FEDERAL AND PRIVATE SECTOR HELP, THEN IF THIS ENERGY PLAN SAID, LOOK, WE ARE GOING TO COMMIT IN THE NEXT TEN YEARS TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO BUILD OUT THE RENEWABLE INFRASTRUCTURE. IT DOESN'T SAY THAT. IT JUST SAYS, WELL, WE HOPE IT HAPPENS. WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO HAVE IT HAPPEN. IT'S GOT TO BE A PART OF -- >> GENE, ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS -- >> HOLD ON, DAN, REAL QUICK. MERRIT, GO AHEAD AND REACT TO THAT. >> AS A BUSINESS PERSON, I GUESS WHAT I REALLY LIKE ABOUT THIS PLAN IS THEY'RE SAYING, OKAY INDUSTRY, OKAY THE NEXT SOLENDRA, WHOEVER YOU ARE, COME HERE AND TEST. WE'VE GOT GREAT FACILITIES, COME HERE. WE'RE NOT OFFERING THE MASSIVE TAX BREAKS. WE'RE NOT SAYING YOU CAN'T MORE THAN OTHERS. WE'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU

$30 MILLION LIKE WE OFFERED TESLA. COME HERE AND TEST AND SEE HOW THIS WORKS. WITH THE FACILITIES WE HAVE, WITH THE LABS AND OUR RANGES, WE HAVE PHENOMENAL TEST FACILITIES. FIRMS WILL STAY HERE. FIRMS WILL START PRODUCING HERE. >> SANDIA HAS A DOG IN THIS, AS WELL. YOU KNOW, THEY'VE BEEN DOING A LOT OF WORK ON TRANSMISSION LINE SECURITY, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. THERE'S A LOT OF PLAYERS THAT COULD BE AT THE TABLE. >> BUT GENE, ONE OF THE BIG PROBLEMS WITH WHAT ERIC JUST SAID, AND HE'S RIGHT, WE NEED TO DO MORE OF THIS, BUT THE VERY GROUPS THAT ERIC'S TALKING ABOUT THAT ARE SAYING, WE WANT MORE SOLAR, THE MINUTE WE SAY WE WANT TO GO PUT A POWER LINE THROUGH SOMEWHERE, THEY'RE THE ONES THAT PROTEST, THEY'RE THE ONES THAT SAY NO. >> IT'S NOT JUST THEY, IT'S A LOT OF PEOPLE. >> YOU DON'T REALLY NEED THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO SUPPORT THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, BUT WE'VE MANAGED TO DO TAX CREDITS FOR THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, WE BABY THEM LIKE NOBODY'S BUSINESS. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO LOOKING AHEAD TO NEW INVESTMENT, WE SAY, OH, THAT'S A COST, WE'RE NOT GOING TO MATCH WHAT WE HAVE DONE. >> I DON'T THINK WE'RE SAYING THAT. I THINK THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR CONTRIBUTING A QUARTER

TO HALF OF THE BUDGET EVERY YEAR, AND SO I THINK YOU TELL PEOPLE TO DO THAT. >> BUT AT WHAT POINT DO WE SAY, LISTEN, THIS ISN'T ABOUT THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, THIS IS ABOUT THE PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO, AND IF WE'RE NOT LOOKING AHEAD TO THE NEXT THING, IF THAT CONTINUES TO DECLINE, WE'RE STUCK. WE NEEDED INVESTMENTS IN INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE PAST, AND I REALLY THINK IT IS CYNICAL TO SAY THAT THOSE INVESTMENTS ARE TOO EXPENSIVE NOW. HECK, YEAH, THEY WERE SUPER EXPENSIVE BACK THEN, TOO. BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO DO FOR OUR COMMUNITY AND FOR OUR COUNTRY, AND I FIND IT -- >> WE DID NOT MAKE STATE INVESTMENTS IN OIL AND GAS PIPELINES AROUND THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO. THOSE WERE PRIVATE SECTOR INVESTMENTS DONE BY THE OIL AND GAS COMPANIES. THERE'S NOT A STATE-OWNED OIL AND GAS PIPELINE IN THIS STATE. THEY'RE ALL PRIVATE. >> THE NATIONAL HIGHWAYS, THE LABS -- >> THOSE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ENERGY THINGS. >> LOS ALAMOS AND SANDIA HAS NOTHING DO WITH ENERGY? >> THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. YOU'RE SAYING THE INFRASTRUCTURE DEAL. THOSE ARE FEDERAL DOLLARS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OIL AND GAS, TELL ME WHAT OIL AND GAS STATE TAX DOLLAR WAS SPENT TO BUILD A PIPELINE. YOU'RE SAYING WE SHOULD BE

USING THAT MONEY TO BUILD TRANSMISSION LINES, THEN SWITCH STATIONS, THEN POWER STATIONS. IT'S EASIER TO COME OUT AND SAY -- THERE'S THIS FLIPPING REMARK THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING MORE OF THIS. THE SUBSTANCE IS, WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO DO IT. AND WHEN WE TRY TO TAKE THE STEPS TO DO IT, TRYING TO DO STUFF IN OTERO MESA, TRYING TO BRING THINGS THROUGH, THE VERY PEOPLE THAT ARE OUT ONE DAY SAYING, WE WANT RENEWABLE ENERGY, THE NEXT DAY ARE SHOWING UP AND SAYING, BUT NOT IN MY BACKYARD. >> THERE YOU GO. THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE. JOIN US ONLINE TO HEAR WHAT THIS WEEK'S PANELISTS, ALL FIRED UP NOW, HAVE TO SAY ABOUT A NEW EFFORT TO REBRAND THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO. >> I'M GENE GRANT. NEXT WEEK WE'LL BRING YOU SOMETHING DIFFERENT HERE ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. TUNE IN FOR A ONE-HOUR SPECIAL ON TEEN PREGNANCY IN OUR STATE. WE'LL FEATURE THE VOICES OF YOUNG PEOPLE AND COMMUNITY LEADERS WITH DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES ON HOW WE SHOULD ADDRESS YOUNG PARENTS IN OUR COMMUNITY. YOU CAN FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION ON THE ISSUE ON OUR WEBSITE, NewMexicoInFocus.org. AND AS ALWAYS, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORT TO STAY INFORMED AND ENGAGED, AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK >> GET A PREVIEW OF WHAT'S

COMING UP ON THE NEXT NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. IT'S EASY. SIGN UP FOR OUR WEEKLY E-MAIL AT