Report from Santa Fe; I.M. "Ike" Smalley, Part 2

You Report from Santa Fe is made possible in part by grants from U.S. West providing advanced telecommunication services to New Mexico homes and businesses and by the best western high mesa in your Santa Fe destination where Alfredo's restaurant serves Santa Fe style food at affordable prices.

I'm Randy Mills this is report from Santa Fe today from the studios of KRWG channel 22 in Las Cruces, New Mexico our guest from southern New Mexico the former Senate President Pro Tim of the New Mexico State Senate I am Ike Smolley and this is part two of this show. I finished the other show and I suddenly thought I had a list of questions that long that we hadn't we hadn't talked about before we we wrapped up the last show so we get into it now. You're always good at it all right go ahead. You had mentioned something at the start of the show about you said when you you wanted to get into the military and you were looking for a commission they had a lot of second lieutenants at the time but you had mentioned that coming back from India how did you get to India in the first place? Well I went to University of Pennsylvania Warden School and took foreign trade and I got the I got a job with good as rubber company and at that time they had a silver fleet

going advertising to the United States and a position came up in India or Peru and they asked me which I wanted and I took India because it was a long way off and that's that's where I was on the depression hit. You know I you had mentioned your folks too and of course your lovely wife Wanda who had been just one of the loveliest she had been a supporter of yours a strong right arm for years wasn't she? Oh I don't know it was not prior to this time I met her in Bombay and carried on the acquaintance and came back and I was still traveling with the chemical company and she was in Deming and that's how it got started back here. Hey that's pretty company you met her in Bombay what was she doing in Bombay? Travel traveling with her family. Traveling with the family then came back to Deming.

Right. You came back here and that's interesting all right tell me something about your parents your your folks are pretty strong weren't they? Well my mother died when I was about 12 I think and my father carried on and he was a strong character had a general store in fourth class post office in those days when the roads were improved the travel went further away the new cars coming in they could trade somewhere as else you see and it gradually wore out as I grew up there wasn't an awful lot so I just struck out. You know part of the fun and traveling on campaigns at this state and I go back to the time when we campaigned all in automobiles you know you remember with with the grand neptaurus who used to be the custodian for the capital and he used to always drive the campaign car and I remember we'd take the cars from over in Silver City into Deming and then come

into Las Cruces and always stop at the old post offices in fact my favorite now is up at Mills in the Mexico near Roy Nancy Fulton's up there and we're we're working to get a new sign for town up there. Postmassive and mistresses are very good ladies your father gave you a bit of advice you've told to me in the past and it was like a philosophy and just telling people today we I guess it's a feeling of how to how to stop being a wimp well I can tell you how to stop being a wimp without quoting my father on all things you start to act for yourself you think things through you form your own decision about you want it's either a yes or a no it's very little in between now if you do that should begin to assert your own opinions and things that other people have overlooked and it gives you a little bit of confidence in what you want to do and it grows.

We're in a changing world though now I can't and in this world I find for example that we're running out of people who are decision makers where it used to be and again look at some of the people you serve with Frank Papin from from Don Edacotta we did a show with Frank and a very strong will person and a good man he had Frank Papin we ran through that whole list of very strong people very few of the people who served in the legislature during the senate when you were there worked for anyone else they were their own bosses they were their own decision maker you think about that crack isn't that true well it's true it's true Ernie now the difference between working with somebody else he's the boss you're going to try to follow him in thinking if you don't you got no business working for him if you're by yourself or independent or whatever you might do trying to make your own way you'll form your own opinions and if you don't have an opinion you get nowhere

you got to act one way or the other so I think the as you mentioned it's the difference in the attitude of some time ago the person was a little more independent thinking made up his own mind now there appears to be so many different ways of somebody else making it up for you. We have of course we have an awful lot of things acting upon us in the days when you first went up to the legislature television was just starting today it's a tremendous influence we're looking at cities like California where there may be 500 TV stations within our lifetime a man up in Santa Fe said we could bring in 125 channels into a place like Santa Fe so this this is an awful lot acting upon people I'm surprised that so many people still still read in the legislature you have there's another there are two other forces there one is the judiciary and the other of course the executive how how does a man for

example who's the president pro temer the senate or similar roles over in the house have to go how have to relate and the executive being the governor and his officers well your question is there a conflict or what how do you how do you get along with them what what what kind of steps do you have to to take the work with the well our constitution sets it out pretty well the duties and rights of each each one the governor is the chief executive officer the legislature represents the people directly now also under our form of government the voice of the people is very important paramount almost if it's listened to now if it's not listened to then the governor can go off in a different direction but fundamentally the legislature should be the ruling body not over the decision of the governor the governor still has that independent for everything else so it boils down to a matter of working

together and if you can sit down and work the thing out together fine then both parties are active in the decision if you don't have that then you got a bipartisan thing strike off one direction split half you know and every time you split you lose half the strength and it's better to work with people than it is against them now I've had I've had men tell me Fred Stanley memory you've known Fred for your dear friend for years Stanley had been attorney general at a time that Ed Meacham was governor and Ed Meacham still very active you know federal judge and again at Las Cruces boy you made pretty good and I asked Fred once because for the media they would battle and Fred was never at a loss for words yeah and I asked him once I said it must have been pretty tough for you working with the Republican governor like that he said no he said Ed Meacham was one of the easiest people for me to work with he said we had an agreement he said we knew we could battle

out here in politics but if he ever had something that he considered truly critical along your words for the good of the state he would call me and say Fred this is important or he said I could do that with him and I'd go up there go in the back door would sit down and he said he was the one of the finest gentleman to work with was that your you work with the Republican governor sure you're working with what the hell is it it's all one body that's the state of New Mexico the big body you're not going to divide it yourself the way you want it you don't cut the cake to your own appetizer cut it to everybody's now Ed Meacham was up there the same time I was and he was a good man and it's still is that matter but you can be as strong as you want to and keep your own self respect if you have a reason to change but you should you feel that way you should let other people know how you feel so maybe they do the same thing it's it's working together what you're

looking at is don't have a hidden agenda if you let them know what's on your agenda they should be able to relate to it if you got enough guts in yourself you don't want to hide it anyway you want to expose it see now you had some grandfathers at their pen car sure in car remember do you remember Isaac Newton Curtis who went very well I remember one time when one of the things he did it made him happier than anything was he called me on the phone and he said we know mech the United States is admitting the 49th state and remember he said I'm going out now to get a flag he ordered one with 49 stars so and he said we're going to be the first state capital the fly then and something happened but he called me up and remember was 230 in the morning and said my flag has come in and he's calling from Katrin County and he said I'm going up tomorrow and present that flag to the you know to the governor and the next day we admitted the 50th state so

his flag was already out outmoded down down the tube you you were serving up there when Dave Cargo was governor that was an exciting time when I think that's true yeah he was in the legislature and the old chamber and remember Dave was the first governor Jack Campbell was the governor and the old and the old building and the baton building and then the new capital was built and when they moved into the new one was when Dave Cargo I think I think it was the governor in the old old he was there then Campbell the Campbell still was in the old building no I know that and then he moved into the when they moved into the new because it was after that you know when that's when Bruce had had the time when they couldn't find the road runner and Bruce was looking around and said that Woodpecker is lost somewhere around here how did you find work in with Cargo oh I didn't bother him any getting bother

you know you know he's ready to he's running for mayor down there in Albuquerque you know well the other night he said I thought it was reminiscent he says the trouble with this election is issues and I thought well of course what else is there but it's but issue no I didn't have any trouble what were your favorite times in the in the legislature if you had to look at a period when you found it was it was the best of times once in a while we'd have a party and everybody would go for no particular reason except have some food and a little bit of drink together I think that was the best time the best of times and no heavy pressures no heavy pressures what would you consider over that long period the worst of times guys I don't know I had had a feeling before before you you retired that

when we moved into the period of the coalition the formal coalition that it became somewhat awkward up there were only one or two votes separated the difference between who would be yeah that was it that was a change from the older way of doing things and that that was quite different do you think they do you think we've learned a lesson from that it was not much can get accomplished during that kind of a period well it depends on what you want to do if you want to stop everything that's a good way if you want to get behind things and develop it you don't do that you work together is that now it depends whether you got the votes to if any whoever whoever has the votes becomes a strongest and he gets his program in but that all that does is cause a resentment that goes over to the next session I think that's some sort of things been building up I haven't not followed I can't say too

much I've stayed away from Santa Fe have been up there not over one or two times since I got out now I think if we're looking at this period right now it almost seems a I haven't talked to anyone who is anxious to move back you know to that coalition type where you could have a they had it in a house for a while and it did it was a very unhappy period there and they when they moved over to the Senate it also was a pretty unhappy period there the state seems to be in good financial straits right now as we do this broadcast in fact again we get down to revenue estimates and we passed the six cents per gallon tax on gasoline and it's interesting that their projections were off so much this is only a year ago from the time we do this broadcast that they decide they're going to you know take their projections that we need a gasoline tax and here we are a one year later looking at projections saying that at the end of nineteen forty four in June we're going to have three hundred million

dollars in the and the you know that that's not bad for those you don't you think it'll be ways found to spend it I think there are those who would like to spend it yeah New Mexico in some ways is a fortunate state there's enough influences inside to counter act the other by that I mean so the end result you work together instead of separate and I don't I think a lot of the other states don't have that now to me it's a good balance and it might not be as many goodies that come out of the state as in others but at the same time there's not as many faulty things that come out as in others well I know when when when we get consistently I'll talk to Bill Garcia who's a very fine gentleman with

economic development and he just turns live it anymore we got these consulting firms back east many of them who are you know they'll have like I call report cards on the Mexico's economy so we come out with an F minus on the report card and of course you find out later that some of them with their report cards you're getting that F minus because you don't subscribe to their services which is somewhat of a hammer but a state like California would give its IT to have 300 million dollars plus in its cash balances you know everyone in California is packed now ready ready to leave we've sort of taken a hind position on these almost intimidated by what they tell us we should be doing from the big companies the fat cats Ernie it goes back to maybe the thinking of the legislature 20 30 years ago each individual member do what the hell he was voting on and he had looked at himself

and he wasn't influenced by somebody from Idaho or Alabama it was he voted because he knew what the conditions were on what he was voting for now when you have that you come pretty close to deciding what the people want and the people after all are the ones that should be considered do I make myself clear to me now I'll find for example are we getting too much data you know we're living in it what they refer to as a communications world an informational world I wouldn't say that because I don't know but I know we're getting an awful lot you can pick up any kind of a magazine and find any pin there you want there are a few good magazines to lay it on the line just facts where they are so that is the thing to make up your mind that's world but now in the Mexico each area each district should have somebody in it that knows what the hell is going on now how many times do I go to

city council meeting I don't because I trust the ones are in there the same thing with the counties county gets off it'll come back again because the people are close enough to it to maybe guide it now you get into the state you don't have that opportunity but then the people there are seeking to pattern themselves after somebody else and or they have not yet made up their own mind what they want this is one reason that I was hoping you do these shows with us because you can be a model a peer model for these people you had your I said your successor down here John Smith seemed to be doing an ad road he's doing a very good job and he knows what's going on in Luna County in the district the whole district here's an interesting thing that that's the whole district that goes over to truth the consequences it takes up it carries it yeah over about four different counties doesn't it see a Luna and I'll go had our go a situation came up on property

taxes and this was interesting because again you know part of the political game is the fun of it you know you it's almost like a dance you know we're trying to change partners all the time in Santa Fe Ben Luhan who's a very competent lawmaker put together a bill who was one put together by Senator Eddie Lopez on property tax for the old timers and of the things that happened was the bill got held up in the senate and it was smiddy Johnson Smith from down here who said we're gonna hold up this measure now local people up there said he is holding up what's good you know for the for the elderly and I tried to tell them I said you better go back to your own lawmakers on this what had happened they didn't know was the house of representatives had held some of Senator Smith's bill hostage in the house and I said that's what's holding up your bill not the fact that he's opposed

to that specific piece of legislation his measures are being held up in the house the other you know it was being held up in the senate you know that's not a game for babies up there isn't unless you notice system it certainly isn't and you can't continue to take advantage of someone when it's directly opposite in a way to your own but the state of New Mexico should come first and your own interest in that and that's what that's what it used to be considered probably I don't know is no I won't say that but you can't make everything your way and crucify somebody else before you get crucified yourself and it's not that it's just the feeling of what he called honesty and government that's right an integrity among the members we had another there's been much attention focus especially in Congress we've had maybe one or two examples out here where we've had serious problems but not

not many with the integrity of the legislature I have found over the years I've been covering that for almost four decades now up there and at a time when people would I think they would rather loose-lipped about it talking about our legislature being they would say corrupt I think over the years we have been surprisingly free from corruption and then the Mexico legislature I think so too there may have been a little bit local been counties and so on but far the state is concerned I think is the other way now there has been talk again and I think there'll be a constitution probably amendment coming up again as to whether or not we should have a constitutional convention or some way of revising the convention again remember the last time nothing got through and then not sure what they should do it piecemeal or not how do you feel about another constitution or can it or changes in the constitution as such I think I'd leave the constitutional convention alone it's too broad too many

chances of something slipping in and the people don't have the time to devote to it that they should it's not like it was in 1800 it's 75 like that the constitution has been amended by the Supreme Court many many times one time I got to thinking about our law of emerald domain found out it hadn't been anything done to it since 1907 so I got John Anderson who is in my opinion a very wonderful guy the lobbyist yeah and we went into that thing to see where it had deviated from its original intention and not to give any reasons for this or that we changed it so that everybody affected that's the rancher of the farmer

or the homeowner has had his land taken under emerald domain without compensation so we felt to make it equal both sides utilities and the owner there had to be some justification both way let the other people decide what the decision was for the equity between the two and that's what we did we set it up on that basis each side would have somebody else said as a judge and not themselves he now it sounds a little corny for a thing like emerald domain but it has not been amended that's still one of the most critical issue you know you mentioned you know eminent domain today up there and you have people you know they're they're clearing their decks saying they don't don't touch that you know leave it leave it the way it is now we we drew that thing with witnesses and hearings to everybody affected we had took about two years

to do it but the end result even the utilities are satisfied and the owner and the farmer and the rancher has a line run across his land is satisfied because you'll get just compensation so that was our that was our duty to the state you know duty but we we had a chance and did it how many years ago we had a question out here where some cattle were threatened and I was a question of getting some highway equipment out there and I remember at the time you would said we want that called them out because this is all done that was a snow in country county it's right and it was so deep and so sudden they could not get in or get out and there's some cattle in there that were pinned I called on the National Guard they responded and I had to do it when the governor wasn't there anything else but the National Guard did it they got the cattle out and they saved those ranches are mostly small farmers and ranches up there what it what it did it saved them

probably the years earnings or someone said to me he said well that's illegal and I said not a question of being illegal someone had to take action and you took that action at that time that's right senator I want to thank you again for taking the time to be with us thank you sharing your views with us our guest today is a senator I am Ike Smolling the former president pro-tim of the New Mexico legislature today from the campus of New Mexico State University KRWGTV marvelous crew down here want to thank you a marvelous audience for being with us on report from Santa Fe you