This Way Out; 45

People are dying because the government isn't doing enough, it isn't moving, treatment drugs through fast enough, it's not educating people. The mayor and at least one city councillor keep bowls of condoms on their desks for anyone who enters their offices. There's a group of us also working on a history of the gay movement in Australia, which we hope to get published as a book that's going to be called 20 years on the gay movement in Australia. There's a man with blood gushing from his head, a broken jaw, such that he has to hold it together with his hand, three fractured ribs, and he's told to get the fuck out of my car by a deputy in West Hollywood. Welcome to This Way Out, the International Lesbian and Gay Radio Magazine. I'm Greg Gordon. And I'm Lucia Chappelle, Australian history projects a brighter gay and lesbian future. Victims of violence made bash County Sheriff's contract. And AIDS demonstrators put on a face that could stop traffic. All that, and even more, now that

you've discovered This Way Out. I'm Sandy Dwyer and I'm Tony Sullivan with NewsRap, a summary of some of the news in and affecting the gay and lesbian community. The United States Food and Drug Administration is expected to finally approve wide distribution of aerosol pentamidine, an experimental drug which has been found effective in preventing the reoccurrence of pneumocystis carinine pneumonia, the number one cause of death of people with AIDS. Research strongly indicates that it can also prevent the pneumonia in HIV -positive people and those with AIDS who have not yet contracted it. Patients will have to pay 70 to $100 a vial for the drug with an additional cost for administration. For those people without private insurance, it is unknown if these expenses will be covered by the federal Medicaid program. Medical experts believe that more people will now seek HIV testing and if positive that they will monitor their condition so they can begin aerosol pentamidine treatment

to prevent getting the pneumonia. A Los Angeles, California, superior court judge ruled that open lesbian Terry Sable has the right to make a claim for joint legal and physical custody of her former lesbian lovers' daughter. The couple had decided to become joint parents and the child was conceived through artificial insemination using the sperm of Sable's cousin. The child born in 1986 was given Sable's surname and Sable provided financial support for the child even after the couple separated in July of last year. Sable filed suit when the unidentified mother allegedly refused to accept further child support payments last October and began to limit the time Sable could spend with the child. The City Council in Berkeley, California may be the first in the United States to legislatively encourage safe sex. From the program AIDS and Focus, Janice Winborn has a story. Hotels in Berkeley, California may soon try an innovative approach to combating AIDS, a city

ordinance requiring hotels, motels, and bath houses to supply their patrons with condoms. The ordinance is written by Leland Trayman, a nurse practitioner who works in an AIDS research clinic. Trayman says the Berkeley City Council has agreed to consider the ordinance this month, but he says the issue has become bigger than he ever dreamed it would. Leland Trayman Trayman Trayman Trayman says the majority of the city council has agreed to support the ordinance. In fact, the mayor and at least one city councilor keep bowls of condoms on their desks for anyone who enters their offices. But there is opposition to the law. Some bath houses say they don't want to offer condoms because there is no sex in their establishments and some hotels like the Mariette which offers the book of Mormon and a chocolate to its customers have said the condoms will lead to immoral

acts in the rooms. Trayman says that's ridiculous. The manager said that the idea of supplying condoms would encourage people to have licentious sex. Trayman says he thinks Berkeley is the first city to consider a condom ordinance for its hotels, but the instant media attention he received might lead to other cities adopting similar laws. In San Francisco, I'm Janice Winborn. United States political extremist Lyndon LaRouche was sentenced to 15 years in prison after being convicted of conspiracy to commit male fraud involving more than $30 million in defaulted loans as well as 11 counts of actual male fraud and one count of conspiring to defraud the internal revenue service.

LaRouche used the money to back right wing political causes such as California's 1986 AIDS Quarantine Initiative Proposition 64. Six of his followers also received jail sentences from three to five years each and find six to eleven thousand dollars each. Bale pending appeals was denied. LaRouche and his cohorts are currently behind bars. A three member panel of the U .S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled January 25th that the court can review claims of discrimination against the Central Intelligence Agency. Julie Dubs filed a suit against the CIA in 1982 alleging that the agency unconstitutionally denied her a high -level security clearance because she is a lesbian. The case may now proceed to trial. Her employer, SRI International, applied for a security clearance for her so she could advance in her job as a senior technical illustrator. Although she was open about her orientation at work, Dubs did not mention she was a lesbian

during the initial security investigation. In rejecting the clearance, the CIA said that her failure to inform them indicated her willingness to engage in deceptive behavior. They also stated that while her partner is also an open lesbian, she might have a future partner who fears public exposure. And finally, the British video, Your Choice for Life, which is to be used in the New Zealand school system to educate students about AIDS, has received criticism on at least two fronts. Many teachers call it homophobic, boring and culturally insensitive. The Society for Promotion of Community Standards also voices objections, but from a different point of view. Then Newsletter describes the use of the video as an outbreak of condom mania. As a substitute, they suggest the video The Truth About AIDS, which, according to the Society, has as its climax, chastity. That's Newswrap for this week. Remember, an informed community is a strong community.

Find out what's happening in your area by monitoring your local gay and lesbian media. Newswrap was written by Sandy Dwyer of the news, serving the greater Los Angeles area with contributions from other gay and lesbian publications throughout the world. For this way out, I'm Sandy Dwyer, and I'm Tony Sullivan. Russia commuters using the Golden Gate Bridge into San Francisco were greeted by more than the usual fog during one morning in late January. AIDS Infocus program producer and host Mike Alcalay introduces this report. In California, thousands of commuters were trapped in their cars on the Golden Gate Bridge for over an hour by a synchronized blockade designed to draw attention to the plight of people with AIDS and their anger with the federal government. While the commuters idled captive

in their cars, the protesters asked why the government allows them to be held hostage to AIDS. Tim Kingston was out there in the morning fog with a stop AIDS or else coalition. That's the chance of 28 stop AIDS or else protesters after they are arrested for blocking the Golden Gate Bridge. They created a traffic jam that extended all the way back to Corte Madera on Highway 101. Demonstrators materialized out of the fog and spread a 60 -foot banner across the width of the bridge, reading silence equals death and AIDS equals genocide. Over 80 protesters ran among the stall traffic, handing out leaflets to commuters and protesting what they say is the government's business as usual attitude. That's Terry Sutton, one of the stop AIDS or else members arrested.

Sutton and the other members of stop AIDS now or else say the demonstration was planned to serve notice on the new Bush administration that people with AIDS and their supporters are willing to escalate their tactics and make sure the new administration takes the AIDS epidemic more seriously than the outgoing Reagan administration. Richard Copeland stood in the middle of the Golden Gate Bridge. Reactions to the demonstrators' action were mixed. Many commuters were shocked and angry, but then as the demonstrators leafleted and argued their case, some were one over. Those nearest to blockade

showed the most sympathy. I have a lot of friends who died, I have friends who have it, I feel very sorry for everybody I'd like to do everything I could to help, but I really resent being held up in traffic. I think there are other ways to express it. I think they've irritated people, I think it's very unfortunate. I think that it's about time that people did something like this. I mean, I have friends that are dying in hospital beds all over the place, they're holding back treatments for things that they know that can help AIDS. And I think this is one effective way to make a barrier realize that this is one of the biggest places in the world is this happening. It's not the only place for it, it's one of the places. And I think it's about time they did something like this. It's good for me. I mean, I've got a car in the bridge, I'm considering abandoning the car and enjoying these people. I think it's great. This reporter found the stalled commuters were divided evenly. Many seemed more sympathetic than one would expect for being delayed on the bridge for over an hour. But as one of them said, which is more important, people dying of AIDS or being late to work. This is Tim Kingston reporting in San Francisco.

This is Charles Pierce as Catherine Hepburn. Here to remind you that you're listening to this way out. The international lesbian and gay radio magazine. Well, if I were you, I know I'd be listening. Mitch Grobson, a seven -year veteran of the Los Angeles Police Department, resigned from the force last June and three months later went public about being gay when he filed a $5 million lawsuit against the LAPD and individual officers alleging harassment because they believed he was gay. The most dangerous instance of harassment involved officers failing to respond to his request for backup during potentially life -threatening situations. Since coming out, Grobson has been a vocal advocate for reforms in all

law enforcement agencies. Our community has had a long history of mistreatment by law enforcement officers, no matter what city we live in. The city of West Hollywood, with its considerable lesbian and gay population and initial gay majority city council, has probably rivaled San Francisco's famed Castro district as a gay and lesbian paradise in the minds of many who live outside California. There have been recent reports which suggest that even in the city of West Hollywood there may be trouble in paradise.

Mitch Grobson spoke in support of some people alleging abuses by the Los Angeles County Sheriff's deputies at a West Hollywood city council meeting in December. In this report, prepared by Edmund Calvin for IMRU, LA's lesbian and gay radio show, Grobson described some of the specific allegations made against sheriff's deputies. Two gentlemen were gay bashed with broken ribs, broken jaw, large gashes, permanent scars, large amount of blood, and were refused to an ambulance, were refused to a hospital, were refused police service, and were refused to police report by LA County deputies. There's a man with blood gushing from his head, a broken jaw, such that he has to hold it together with his hand, three fractured ribs, and he's told to get fuck out of my car by a deputy in West Hollywood. In another instance, where two men were entrapped by deputies in vice officers playing clothes, they thought they were being gay bashed. In fact, the guys refused to identify themselves. One of the gentlemen who went along completely

had his head smashed into a wall. The owner of a disco in West Hollywood made a complaint against a deputy who was harassing his customers. The next day, his business was surrounded by seven sheriff's cars with their lights out, and a sheriff's sergeant went over to him and told him, do you have a problem? Because we run this city, and if you don't like it, you can leave. Now, can you imagine that's someone who happened to have with him two off -duty Los Angeles police officers to work security? So luckily, he was protected. Now, the same situation reversed on somebody who's just a citizen who's been mistreated. Do you expect that person to make complaint? These were incidents that were totally unacceptable and are occurring regularly, but we don't have enough people coming forward. Now, they came forward. They wanted to talk to me. I spoke with them, and I was willing to stand up on their behalf. The sheriff's contract comes up for renewal in four months. If a public form is held for the first time, gays and lesbians who have been harassed, have been beaten, have been refused police service, will have an opportunity to come forward. During a live television broadcast on West Hollywood City Channel, January 26th, Commander Mike Squires of the Sheriff's Department responded to

the allegations regarding the gay bashing. Stating at Gropeson's account was a gross misrepresentation of the facts. He said that the man's injuries were not that obvious, and that the injured man demanded to get out of the squad car. Squires also said that a crime report was taken. Unlike other contractors with the city of West Hollywood, the sheriff's department does not include sexual orientation in their anti -discrimination policy, which is seen by many as another indication of the department's institutionalized homophobia. Edmund Calvin continues the story. During our interview with Mr. Gropeson, he discussed also with us the personal events that have happened in his life. From the Los Angeles Police Department, all of my friends that were on the police former and presently being harassed, all of my landlords have been contacted. Asked if I live there. They were asked who I associate with, who spent the night. I've had police surveillance on a former location where I lived. Now the Sheriff's Department went ahead and showed a tape where I

made the statements to the West Hollywood City Council, showed it to every single deputy in West Hollywood at each of the roll calls. So the deputies would know what I look like and that I have stated in public a complaint against them. And does Mitch Gropeson feel like a targeted man? Well, regardless of how I feel, I mean, I pay a bodyguard. So at least I've got a bodyguard with me. Regardless of that, I don't have to live in West Hollywood. It's not safe for me to be in Southern California. I don't live there. The point is there's a 35 % of a population of gays and lesbians who still have to live with those same people. And as for the future, Mr. Gropeson had this to say. You make yourselves known. You stand up and decide you're not second -class citizens anymore. You state that you pay the eight and a half million dollars that goes and supports the Sheriff's Department. And as such, you have certain rights. And you demand those rights, which are very simple. You demand openly gain lesbian officers on the inside. If you have gays and lesbians who are allowed to be open on the inside, you're not going to have harassment on the outside. As Mitch Gropeson pointed out, the Sheriff's contract with West Hollywood comes up for renewal in April. Will these issues affect those contract talks? We'll keep you posted.

For this way out, I'm Sandy Dwyer. The preservation of our past has been a major theme in the modern gay and lesbian movement. Brian Newman of Melbourne's Lesbian and Gay Show talks with Gary Watherspoon of the Gay History Project of Australia, whose introductory slideshow presentation foreshadows the publication of several ambitious works. How did the group come about

to actually start doing stuff like this? Well, it's just one of those things. There was John Lee was doing stuff on South Australian gay history. Robert French was collecting a whole range of stuff on New South Wales and Australian gay history. And I was working on my book on Sydney's gay subculture. So we thought we really ought to just sort of combine our efforts. And there's a group of us also working on a history of the gay movement in Australia, which we hope to get published as a book. It's going to be called 20 years on the gay movement in Australia. We hope to have that ready for the, well, basically, 1990, 20 -year anniversary of the setting up of the first organised gay groups in Australia. So the gay history project is really aimed at encouraging as much publication we can on gay history. The anthropological stuff is perhaps contentious. I mean, part of the trouble is that the Aboriginal culture now doesn't really acknowledge much homoeroticism in its old cultures. That's the impact of white values and attitudes. But it's certainly clear from a lot of the anthropological work that's being published that there is a strong element of homoeroticism. Mainly male, we know very little about once again women's homoeroticism there, except I think there's a few women working on trying to get some material on that.

And I'll get moving on to the European history of Australia. How on earth did you dig up all these bits and pieces? Well, we started out. We didn't think there was much, but, you know, like true historians, you just have a file and every time you come across something you throw it in the file. And then after about four or five years, you think, well, look, there's starting to, things are starting to build up. And then we put ads in the papers and announced it on a couple of the gay waves programs and in various the gay publications. And we started to get responses. People would say, have you read this novel or have you seen this, or have you thought of looking in this? And gradually, we did start to find that there is an enormous amount of material. Probably one of the most interesting things is that much of the material is clearly and readily available, like one thing in the 1830s. There was a report to the British parliament on the moral state of New South Wales. And it was clear that there's an enormous amount of evidence there on homosexuality and the colonies. Of course, the other interesting story, and it's very quite pertinent, given that relates to Queensland, is

the high probability that Queensland's first premier Herbert was possibly had an interesting relationship with his friend Bramston. We can't go much beyond that, given what the evidence says. But I mean, one should suspect, or one can be quite legitimately suspect, why should we presume that all things were heterosexual in the 19th century? There may have been deviences, which we're only starting to explore now. And that's one we're really going to try and look at. I'm sure there were deviences back then. Yes. Now, the interesting question is, if this material is available, historians have never used this in the past. Now, this clearly means there's been some attempt at conscious suppression of the material. I mean, a range of major historians must have known it's there. They've been through all that sort of material. But they've made quite conscious decisions. This isn't seen as an important part of Australian history. And that's where I think the gay history project is going to be important in that it's forcing and will force, and the long one, a rewrite of a lot of these things. The new histories, the people's histories are being written now like the Bergman and Leo people's history of Australia. That's got two chapters in one chapter on male

homosexuality and learning to serve. It's very clear that it's everywhere. You've obviously got source material from people who are still alive who can actually tell you their own stories. Right. Yes. I mean, that's the advantage of tape recordings now is that oral history can really take off. And so it clearly gives a new dimension to history. History is no longer just the official documents that are kept and official history from the top written down by them. It's now allows for a much greater impact from the community level. And this is very good and certainly gay history can utilise this as many of the ethnic communities can to prove what their history is about. Your introduction to the show last night, you almost apologise for the fact that there isn't much lesbian content in the show so far. Any idea as to why? Well, yes. It is one of the short comings of our show. We are aware of that. I think part of the problem is that there isn't a similar team of women, similar team of lesbians

working on this. I think what that reflects is there's a range of other shortfalls they're already trying to build up. Much of their energy is focused directly on women's history, which is quite legitimate. And I think gradually as more and more of that is done, it'll become more sophisticated and you'll get sort of more specialisation women will then start to turn to look at lesbian history. Once again, they may face a series of problems which we didn't face. I mean, because male homosexuality has always been illegal here since the white invasion in 1788, there's always been an enormous amount of documentary evidence, court cases, royal commission reports. Criminals. Yes, our criminal aspects. But interestingly, because we're criminals, it does show up in a whole range of things. But the women are really much more hidden away from history simply because they were not deemed to exist. I mean, lesbianism, I mean, that all the powerful story about Queen Victoria may not be true, but it certainly represents that a perception that women's sexuality wasn't sort worth, there wasn't sort thought worth policing in the way that male sexuality has been thought worth policing. But once again, that's the sort of thing that oral history could make a big impact there. If they started to

interview a lot of the older lesbians about what their life was like, that Queensland woman, who's 104, who Joe Bianchi Peterson appointed, who is roving Ambassador, and then found out she was a lesbian, I think that was a bit of a shock to him. But see, someone like her, and there must be lots of people like her that would be really worth interviewing, simply to get their reminiscences on tape. Even if what they remember isn't completely accurate, what you're getting is a common perception of what is remembered. Yeah, makes me think of the American film before Stonewall. Yes, which was great. I mean, I think it'd be lovely if we could actually get some sort of projects like that underway here. Yeah. So where's the project going now? Well, there's several things going. The book, 20 years on, the history of the gay movement in Australia since 1970. The book of Australian gay history, the documents, which we're trying to get out, because that'll provide a good resource base for any future project, the various histories of the gay subcultures. And once you start there, you can go off in a whole direction. I mean, for the lesbian history, the idea of cross -dressing, why did so many women dress as men and pass as men in the 19th century? Was it only economic necessity, which gave them

a push to do that? Was it just the freedoms that men were given in the 19th century? Or was it just, you know, something different? There's a whole range of ways in which history can be explored now, which are much more interesting in the all ways that they used to write history in the past. For sure, and really exciting stuff. Yes, yes, very good stuff. And really important for us to be doing for ourselves. If Kinsey was right about how many might be gay, we needn't look far to find many who are that way. If one out of six is true, how one out of ten will do? It makes little difference. There's still the inference that we are more than a few. The M. Forster and Gertrude Stein. At least two dancers

in a chorus line. Saffo and bacon and Marla weren't faken when they played the gay name again. Oscar Wilde and Sister George. Some of the troops at Valley Forge. Father Malcolm Boyd and maybe Sigmund Freud are playing the gay name game. Alice Talkless and Isher Wood. The governor of, I wish I could. If it hadn't come to late, Alexander the Great, he would be playing that gay name game. I could add to this thrilling list,

but you've probably got the gist, and I won't just give the night to any old club who wants to play in the gay name game. Thanks for choosing this way out, the International Gandlesbian Radio Magazine. This week, Sandy Dwyer and Tony Sullivan, Janice Windborn, Tim Kingston, Edmund Kelvin, and Brian Newman contributed feature material. Mary Martin, the Tom Robinson band, Age of Consent, and Tom Wilson Weinberg performed the music you heard, and Kim Wilson composed and performed our theme music. Sound -like distribution of this way out is made possible through a grant from the Chicago Resource Center. We'd like to hear from you with any comments, suggestions, or questions you might have, addressed to this way out. Post Office Box 38327, Los Angeles, California

90038. That's Post Office Box 38327, Los Angeles, California 90038 USA. This way out is produced by Greg Gooden, and Lucia Chappelle, and we thank you for listening on WUSB Stony Brook, KBO Portland, and WISO Yellow Springs, among others, and for supporting this local community radio station. Now y 'all stay tuned.