On the Road with J. Golden Kimball

This is a 19:12. Ford Model-T touring car. Beautiful isn't it. Michael Golden You should drive a car a lot like this Jay Gordon Kimball was not only my uncle he was a friend to a cowboy who became an LDS General Authority. He was a unique character in the Mormon Church around the turn of the century and was loved and admired. For his rare who had. But sometimes a golden god in a lot of hot water with church leaders for his frank and humorous way of. Telling the truth. But nevertheless the people loved him for his colorful spontaneity. He spent a lot of time on the road talking to church members and nowhere nowhere was he more loved than in rural Utah. Why don't we see if we can get this started. Got it. I'm Jim Kimball. And for the next hour or so. I'll be traveling around the state of Utah. Before the newly found Jay Gould and Kimballs stories and talking with people who remember the golden. And have stories to share. So join me as I go on the road with Jay golden

in the. Local production on the road with geocoding Kimball is made possible by a generous grant from the George S. and Dolores story echoes foundation. Golden was happiest when he was out here on the road. On assignment. He. Was back to his roots back to the people he knew and loved the ranchers. Farmers.

Cowboys. I think he preferred to go north to his. Home in Round Valley and be with his friends. But I miss you dearly. Our first stop is in Mogen where my friend Jhoom and Linda camp are graciously hosting a performance in their backyard. I'll tell you what about Logan golden. He lived here and three and four of his six children were born here in Logan. And years later someone asked him. What's it like to live in Logan and you won't hear the story or you wouldn't get a little upset. And he said well I rather enjoyed it as well. Logan doesn't seem to go very much it just sits there. It just is about the same population. And for the last 20 years. And he says yeah I am aware of that. Mason What do you think the problem is and he says. Well let me think about it.

I guess the problem is that every time a young unwed. Sister. Gets Pregnant some young man leaves town. The. Story that took place just north of here in Wyoming. So Golden was constantly. Being berated by President Grant and others for his swearing in for these stories. And. President Grant called him in and kind of gave him the ultimatum he says if you continue with this. He said I'm really going to have to close you down and we're going to have to travel with me or whatever. And he said so I'm just for warning you for warning you. See gold and I always said well he says it's that damn contraption the telephone that gets me in trouble because before it was invented I could go out and say anything I wanted to and that I'd get

back and deny it. But now they call back and tell me what I've said and he's waiting for me at the train station. And so this is exactly what happened he went up to Wyoming and got carried away. Speaking to. People up there and. And it said some things I guess you shouldn't have said. And when he got back Grant called him in and he says I've warned you. I've told you and now I got this phone call. And you cursed these people you Kustom you cussed at them and and we can't have that. And so I'm sorry but you're traveling with me from now oh wait wait a minute wait a minute. Just a minute. That's what I mean. You've got to remember that's Wyoming. And it's pretty bleak up there. It's pretty drab. And life is tough. And the winters are wrong. And life is hard. And I'm telling you if if you don't when you stand up to speak to them call the sons of bitches they don't hardly feel welcome.

Gili me and his wife and I traveled all the way from Rucker not a home to join us at the Bluebird restaurant in Logan. He told me a story he remembered as a young man. My wife and I are the only two people left that can tell their story. All the rest of them so far as we know have gone beyond the veil. And what year was that. That was the I went to Madge about 1926 to me said 25 or 26. And and me. Pocatello stake held a state conference in semi a quarterly conference wrapped in one time in a year and that was in the month of June and it had been noised around that J Gordon Kimball would be at the conference. Naturally the building began to fill with people. They stacked themselves in there and every seat was taken and they were sitting in the aisles and in the window the window wells. And after the opening exercises were over the years and some other remarks were made. Finally it was announced that J Gordon Kimball would speak.

And as a teenager sitting me down in that audience I thought he would never quit standing up he just kept getting taller and taller and taller and in my youthful mind's eye I could envision somebody holding a grasshopper up like this in his little beady eyes and wrinkles in his veins and these two words James with going down into his watch pocket. And he didn't say anything. He looked out across the audience for a few minutes and he says in his high pitched voice. So this is drop now is it. How in the hell did you find that God forsaken place. My outlanders the you just showed it to going up and down like this and learn a little English girl sitting down and Frasier's. She didn't know what to think about his opening remarks or remarks on people to get through checkering he said. And last night they stayed with you this year. And here's the home that he stayed in now on

the bench about a mile and a half from the George and this morning he said I needed the toilet and I needed it bad. Bishop. Or do you go. Oh he says you go down through. You go down through the orchard about a hundred yards you'll see the place where you need to pack the plants he said. That that not the idea of a row or them and George never did go to church. He was a. But we couldn't get him into the building and he was rolling in the aisle with laughter. He was just really beside himself. One sister called on the phone and said. My mother loved your uncle Gordon. So much because as the wife of the stake president he would often come to her. To. Logan. And and. We still have to have him because in those days the general authorities stayed with the members in their homes and.

Ate at their table and got to know the kids. And Gordon came. This time he was not feeling very well when he arrived she said he was very ill and he just said Sister I just need to go to bed. Tonight and maybe I'll be ready in the morning. For the meetings. And so they took him upstairs and put me to bed and. Next morning it was getting close to meeting time and so she said. My mother went up and she fixed a little toast and she walked in and she had some. Some tea and she walked in she said. Brother Kimball. You better be getting up it's time to get dressed and get ready and I fixed a little water down tea for you. To drink and maybe it'll make you feel a bit better. He rolled up in bed and rested on his elbow and he says. Watered down tea. He says Hell if I'm going to break the word of wisdom he may as well make it fall straight.

Well. The problem is. That a lot of people I'm telling you all these witty and humorous stories there is something to go than that. That I often don't mention but I think it is appropriate that you understand that he had a very compassionate loving and tender heart. Too. And a lot of people have told me stories about things that he did. That that are just to me enduring because it gives us a different dimension to his personality. Steve Smoot told me the story he said that his Aunt Peggy who had never married but had a delightful wit about her and saw life as a great a great experience a great celebration and she told this wonderful story she says oh somebody said well do you remember Uncle golden Kimball or people just call him

Uncle God even though he was not related to him. And she's oh yes she says I just love that man. He was just always so sweet to me and so kind to me. And she says he was particularly tender. On one occasion when I went to a Christmas party and we all went together we picked him up on Second Avenue and second north where he lived and we took him with us in this car and we went to this Christmas party and she said often times I was kid had a great deal about the fact that I had never married. And she says Sometimes I could handle it really well. And other times I couldn't. And she said this night they were all kidding me about on the first morning of the resurrection what are you going to do Peggy. No one will be there for you. And she says it really got a little hard but she said Golden was Uncle your uncle that was there and. And she said he he didn't say anything. He didn't enter into this and she said he just gave me a look like he didn't think this was right. And so she said when the party was over and when we left and we all got back in the car we drove him home first

because he was very tired and we let him out at his home. And he got out and said goodbye to everyone and then he started down his driveway. And then he turned around and he turned and came back to the car and said just a minute. And he tapped on my window and she says I rolled down my window. And he said to me. Piggy on the Resurrection morning don't you worry I'll be there for you. And that's when he. Says I always remember that. Uncle golden always liked to keep track especially down Highway 89. Of the membership. He tried to show up and. Speak at baptisms or participate in baptisms. It was a very big thing. Membership growth. And. Periodically he would. Go back he would inquire how some

person was doing and when he got back down to. Southern Utah. In Salina. He went to this bishopric meeting and he said. I'm curious to know about Brother Nichols Whatever happened to Brother Nichols. And the Bishop said well I'm sorry to tell you this brother Kimball but he's fallen back into his old ways. You remember we brought him around. He was chasing women and drinking and smoking. And then he changed had a change of heart we thought he did. And then he was baptized and. Now he's fallen back into those old ways. And they're going to I'm sorry to hear that. That's. Who baptized him who wasn't the baptized him. They said well broken what you did. You are the one who baptized him. He I did. He says yeah you did. He says I'm really sorry about that. This is all Brother Kimball it's not your fault.

That he's fallen away and he says well that's not what I'm sorry about. I'm sorry I didn't keep the son of a bitch under the water. Tell me Lorraine Have you ever had a manicure before. No. This isn't the first one first one. My hands are 79 years old hands are 79 years old. Well that face looks like it's only about 27 you know. You're a real kidder. Why did you tell me that story that you said your mother passed on to you when you were a young woman. Well we lived out in one ship and. You know what that is. Yes. And she told me that. When Dan. Rather Jane Goldman came by was going to be there in authority for Stakeout. They had to go down to Cofield to get her beautiful old steak

house. They had to go early to get to see her. And. She said at that time. For women to use makeup was frowned on. And so. I have someone ask him what he thought about that. And he said well. A little pain. Never heard it bark. And so that was the end of the discussion. I mean you know we are way out really. What about the other story you just told me a minute ago that your mother your mother passed to you. Oh she told me that. Because the. Rather Golden's cowboy book packed vocabulary. That parties would let me. Think for a while. And so finally when they did let him they. Ask him to pray.

She said. He prayed for about a half hour. To get even. I love. He said his cowboy vocabulary were just left overs. From his cobwebbed days he said they came from a far larger vocabulary. Well if you lived up in that country you knew about that. Oh yeah. This is the only language animals understood that they never would respond to you and I should swear at them. The thing I need to explain to you as Uncle gold and drink coffee is a cowboy. I think most cowboys drink coffee if the truth were known. It's breakfast for them. That's it. Guess I'm awake. I'm on the horse and out with cattle. And golden. Wrestled with it. And when Heber J. Grant said we're going to observe the Word of Wisdom. That section is now going to be enforced. He went to him as is. He. He can't do this to me he had been drinking coffee all my life what am I supposed to do.

And he says Well try your best brother Kimball try your very best to give it up. And. The year before he died he gave a conference talking. He says I want your brother and sisters to know they observe that I observe the Word of Wisdom I still have a little bit of a problem but I've just about got it licked. Eighty five years old and he's just about got it. So anyway he goes into. He'd go down early. To this this one incident took place in kilties. And he went down early. As soon as the door opened. He went in because his wife went serving coffee and head. He walked down he just lived on second north block and a half away from. From the South temple. He goes in and says me. I have a cup of coffee please. And so they bring it to him he sits in the back booth. And. He's drinking sipping his coffee. And a woman comes in and goes by him to the ladies room and then comes back and pauses and looks at him and she says Aren't you Jay go to Kimball or the first council of seventy drinking coffee.

Move to bed and he says Sister you're the third woman to day two mistaken me for that old son of a bitch. Now if that isn't quick I don't know. Another one. He's up at Walgreens sit down at the end of the kind I had a big long count of know that kind of went all way round. We don't mean the kind where. They're having a cup of coffee. A man walks by. Turns and looks. Gets on the inside looks and he says. Aren't you J. Gordon Kimball. And he says yes I am. And the man strange of me says. I'd rather commit adultery than drink coffee says so with red.

Red Kimball we picked him up and taking him. On a beautiful day and when. You'd call him a had said let's go have some lunch. I'll fix you some lunch up city quick. Which was a password. That meant they were going to go up to the cook Canyon and. And ranch had some sandwiches and he was going to fix a fire and put some coffee on there for Goldmann himself and they would often do this. And so they were away up there at the top of city Creek Canyon all by themselves with his little fire and there drinking two tin cups of coffee and rancid. I said to Uncle golden on Google does this bother you. I mean bein up here with me bein a general authority and drinking coffee and the two of us you know. Together here like this and. Violating a basic tenet of the Mormon faith. I'm going to say no it doesn't bother me at all. And right said well why not and he said because the eighty nine section doesn't apply at this altitude. He stood up.

And now. In Las Vegas Nevada as I recall. Las Vegas was settled by the Mormons. In case you don't know and then everything got away from them is the only way I can. But I think they have nine or 10 or 11 states down there now. But. But he was assigned to go down there from St. George. And there were some. He was told by the state president that there were some newspaper reporters there. From the newspapers in Las Vegas as well as the newspapers in Los Angeles they had heard that he was coming and had heard about him. That he was a swearing elder. So they showed up and the church tried to show. Respect for them in the free press and the constitutional rights that they enjoyed. And so golden gets up to speak and he looks over and he's been told go and he says. No over here on the front row. So the number of newspaper reporters. They're going to try. And get me to swear because they want to put in their article. That. I have sworn. Because they think I'm a sworn elder and if they put that in the newspaper report that I have sworn I want them to know they're damn

liars. Golden was a very tall and narrow man almost stork like. That's why so many stories relate to his appearance. I can understand you know a delightful story about a golden you called and told me just how often would you tell me that story one more time. Yes this was my father who heard him give this and it was at the time that the LDS Institute in Logan was new. He went up to hit the Easter sermon and Jay Golden had been asked to give the Easter Sunday. And when Jacob got up to speak he said look he went to the pulpit and there was this beautiful arrangement of Easter lilies on the pulpit. He looked bouquet and then he looked out at the congregation and they looked back at the bouquet. He picked it up and took it off from the piano. And when he came back he said in his rather high pitched speaking voice the contrast was too.

I love that. And you and your father was. How old would you say it was when you heard that story. Oh he was in his late 20s I suppose. Yes. And everyone laughed he said yes and everyone laughed to be kicked. Yes. And then Dad never forgot it. Tell you how he had to tell us about that. So for pining. For the Thanksgiving turkey. Could you tell me that one more time. My grandfather Stephen eight's love. Who was present at the time of a sugar company. And Jay golden Kimball were good friends. My grandpa had a. Old Franklin car. I don't know whether you remember that or not. But it was. An air conditioned air. Cooled car. Off and on Saturdays they to go out and. Cruise nearly every byway and alley in the valley. Anyway one day

when they were out just before Thanksgiving. Jay Gould said to my grandfather. Steve why don't we go out there brother Clark's farm. To get a turkey for Thanksgiving. That was Jay Rubin Carter Rubin Clark had a farm out at Stansberry and among other things he raised turkeys. So the two of them decided to do that so they drove out to Stanbury and he got a turkey and the day after Thanksgiving. My grandfather said to Jay gold he said Golden. Hardwood. Did you enjoy the turkey. We got out our brother Clark's farm for Thanksgiving and grandpa told me that gold and looked at him and said Steve. I sat down with my mouth all set for a turkey dinner. And to my great surprise mother served girls to beef.

And I said to her mother where's that Turkey that I bought out of Brother Clark's farm for Thanksgiving. And she said Golden. Aunt I want to get a raid to cook the long scrawny neck look so much like yours. I didn't have the heart to cook it. I love it. I suppose I did too because it happened to grandpa and I heard him tell a story slowly. That was his wife Jenny couldn't cook the turkey. How. Long scrawny neck looks so much like his a. Governor Rampton was in his 20s. When Golden was in the height of his. His. Uninhibited self. And to Rampton really cared a great deal for him. As did. Strangely enough. John Fitzpatrick who's the editor of The Tribune. I just learned from. A member of his family would come by and

golden. Every week and take him to lunch because I mean here's a Catholic editor of a paper that was extremely critical of the church and yet he was very close to Jay Gould and his friends were. Across a broad spectrum. At any rate. Cal Rampton said that he told me this story. About 11 years ago and he said. Your uncle Golden was very sick. And the. President had called him on the phone he says we want you to go with us over to Denver to. Create our first stake in Denver. We have tickets on the Denver ride grand all the general authorities are going we're going to take the whole car and eat together in the diner and it's going to be a lovely get away and says well I'm so sick. I just don't think I can go. He always called President Grant habor I'll never called him president. They were old friends. Don't don't be mistaken. They were old friends from way back when President Grant was over in Japan on a mission. The correspondence between those two men is very touchy. Great

affection for each other. I just don't feel well. OK I'm going I'll get worse and this is golden. Listen just come with us. Be along with us the president Grant knew in the back of his mind that if Goldman went with him any place there was always a crowd. He wrote that in his diary. He says When I go by myself. On the stake presidency he's there to greet me if I take golden long. There are throngs of people at the train station. But I don't know whether that was on his agenda or not because we just loved having come and I said OK if you don't call on me to speak I'll go but I can't speak I'm too sick. So you got on the train they go over to Denver they dedicate the steak. They get on the train they come back. Golden's doing reasonably well. It just wants to go to bed and president then says oh come down and join us for dinner. We're just going to have dinner in the diner. Please. OK. But I don't want to eat anything. So they get down there. And everyone is. The orders are being taken. And. This waiter this black waiter comes up to Google and says Sir would you like for dinner.

Well I don't feel well. I just don't feel well I'm just going to pass. I think I'm coming down with a flu. Medicine So if I could make a recommendation to you he says I don't know how to look at the flu. I don't know how to beat it already. What what how do you do it. He says well it's it's really very simple. I get a big big tall glass and I fill it half full of whisky and has full of coffee and you drink that down and you'll feel just fine when you get up tomorrow morning in Salt Lake City. Just dead silence in a diner doesn't ventless. Go around and everyone he says oh I'll have to pass on that brother. That's very kind of you. But I'll have to pass. Thank you very much. I'll be OK. What if you say so. So the Blackwater walks down and out of the dungeon you just about gets to the kitchen and golden senses Oh Waiter waiter. He turns around and everyone's watching he says. About that drink. To make me feel better.

You couldn't make out half Postum could you. They said the president lost it. He laughed and laughed. I had to take his glasses off. The kids were going down the stairs. What. Is. Nice of you to join me on this ride. In this lovely novelty today. It's a nice experience for me too. Thanks for having me along. I I was very interested in having you retell that story of Uncle golden and the financiers from the East that came out to visit. Can you tell me that one one more time. All right. Well. Were Graham had some financier's coming out from the East. He was a businessman you know.

And he wanted to show them a good time. So he called around to try to get one of the general authorities to come in and do the tour with these people and he looked and lo and behold they were all busy doing something or other except they go. And he called up Jay Goldberg to come out in the office explain to him what these people were coming and they needed to see the town and what he had scorched them around. He demurred and he said first of all I am with the language. I don't want to disgrace the church. I'd prefer if. You asked somebody else. Heber J. Grant said well I've already looked around and you're the only one we have. So you have to do it. So other protest then Jay Coleman said he'd show them

around town. Eventually he met up with a group that took them to the mature in the house. And he said this is the McKuen house. Grand Center of the city for doing cultural things music and dance. And my sort of thing. It took us four years to build this place. There was a wag in the crowd and he said well we could have done this in two years back east. That kinder riled Jay gold and me it's obvious these eastern people didn't understand the difficult circumstances. These pioneers people were operating under. Well he took him down to the grand city and county built a classical structure and he said

this is where we do our city and state business for the county. And the last. Seven years to build this building. Is. The same way I piped up and said well we could have built that building five years back. That riled up Jay Gould leaving for school. Toward the end of the tour he was driving up Main Street between what was then a Hotel Utah and the temple. He was just passing the temple. And it was obvious he was going to say anything about it. So the Wag's spoke up and pointed at the temple and said hey what's this building here. Jay gold turned around looked at it and says. I. Was. There yesterday. I love it. I love.

Gold. And always. Love to go down eighty nine because it had so many small rural cities all the way down. And he had many friends. And some of the. Some of I think the most authentic and and delightful story came from that route because. He was a long ways away from Salt Lake and he was very spontaneous. Especially with the people that they were just good looking. Martin Luther King. Will say. That's. Opened up. OK. Pastor. One time golden speaking out in a. Conference. I.

Took him aside. He said that. The. Afternoon session is going to be some people. That aren't active in the church debates and. They may. Make some catcalls and have some fun with you. All that doesn't bother me at all. And sure enough. When he got to speak. He yelled out We can't hear you up here. Going stop. Went on for a while. Again you still can't. Stop. To look at him and he says you know. That's always going to be on the first morning of the resurrection. Bunch of jackasses like you be over in some corner telling Jesus we can't hear you up here. Brother down he said. I love that story.

You. Know. He. Was funny he. Didn't particularly come down with any prepared text. No. Sermon in mind he just. Waited till he got down to the towns and small cities and farms and talk to the people. Hope was bothering them. Look at the crops look at their animals. One time he came down and. Down Old Highway 89 and. In Ceylon or Litchfield through here. State First of all I don't need to give a talk on genealogy.

You couldn't talk to stay out of when the state TV says Brother Kimball we're talking about genealogy. Gordon got up and said. They want me to talk about genealogy. Work for the dead brother help them. Not. Do. Well here we are. In a couple of reef national park day of June 19. Ninety eight. For me Jay golden Kimball for.

Entrada fundraiser. It's a beautiful day. It's rained like hell for the last three or four days we've faced. Rain sleet. Hail and pestilence and survived them all to be here. Richard and Jan Larson from Richfield. Is that right. And you say that you know the golden Kimbal sure you wanted to pass on to me. The one we have is when he was dressed and ready for church. And out feeding the calf calf crickets had been ship milk all over the news to. Amnesias as if I had my way I'd shove your head right to the bottom of this

damn bucket. Have you ever had that happen to you. Try to feed a calf and half it. I think that's why we like to see so much truth to it so much truth to it. Yeah it kind of hit home. Thanks so much I hope you enjoy the program tonight. We will we will. I'll tell you some more news stories. OK. OK. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Thank you very much. I. Performed on the flatbed of a 1938 Ford truck before I performed on the hay wagon. And one time on the manure spreader but never on the back of a truck. If there's anyone in this group. That doesn't know who J Gordon Kimbal is I mean when you raise your hands. I doubt I could explain to some of you. All right. Never heard of never heard of him before. The the prevailing religion in Utah is the Mormon faith the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.

And golden Kimball was a General Authority one of the ruling body of. This church. For about 55 56 years. And the reason he's remembered is not that he was a general authority but that he was just a rough hewn gold cowboy that they made a general authority and when they found out what he was really like it was too late. They couldn't remove him from that position and. They couldn't get the missionaries to go out. In some Nevada town. They wouldn't go. They had all these young men they wouldn't go and they said Peter J Grant's has got to go over and talk to them. Goldman always would say that in his diary he says I was the gunslinger for the church. Whenever there was some impossible situation he would send me over. So he went over there and they finally got one of the wildest roughest kids in town to go on a mission and they had a party for him the night before his farewell and Goldman was supposed to speak at the farewell until all

the other young men. What a wonderful thing that this young boy was doing. And so he goes to this party. And it turns out to be a really wild party. I mean there was dancing. But he could tell there was drinking and they finally asked this young elder who's about to leave to stand up and say a few words that he was drunker than anybody else there. So he gets up and wanders around and slurs a few sentences out and tells his girlfriend he'll be back in a couple of months to see her and. They can't keep me there and walks off and sits falls down and golden. Turn to the bishop at the scene and he says that young how old are you standing now. I think you got to keep him around for a little while. Kick him in the ass every day and then he might turn out to be a good elder. They used to stand him out during the Depression a great deal of the time. That was a tough time for the church my friends. It was a really tough time because people weren't paying their tithing 10

percent. The Mormons are supposed to pay and post fast offerings. So a very expensive church to belong to fast offering and tithing once. But we feel that you get blessed be blessed for it. So golden went up and told them they're missing out on a lot of blessings. They weren't sending their sons on missions. They weren't even going to do their temple work because they couldn't afford gas. And so Golden's idea was yeah that's fine. But you're in the devil's hands. I mean this is exactly what the people want you to do. So we got up and started preaching the sermon and we had a roll of paper in his hands. All the time he was preaching. He had this roll of paper in his right hand that he he says brother and sisters this is exactly what the devil wants you to do not pay your tithing not send your sons on missions not to do temple work. Then he has you within his power. One more step and that's apostasy and you're out of church. That's the truth and I'm here to tell you if you've got to change your ways we're gonna go to hell. You're probably wondering what I have in my right hand here. Aren't you curious. I've had my right hand the whole meaning Long Well I'll tell you what it is it's the lord shitlist and

all your names are on it. The. Golden One how to set this brother apart. And he was a central European. And he's just been converted to the church. And it was in the Avenues. Somebody told me the story I went to a summer party. For golden breeders or Emman or somebody and someone came and said you done Google in that ward. They all did he's 33rd Ward I think it was. Set this man apart. And he says I was there and I watched him do it. And the man had a peculiar name his name is. His name was ivánovich. Ignitors vitiates I remember that this weird name for him. From Central Europe you know how. They have these

names that are all filled with vowels. Well that's the kind of name he had and so I googled and said Come here brother I said your party was going to make him an elder. And he. Put his hands on these and he says now what's your name and the name and lean down and the brother said my name is Ivanovich Hignett to vitiates well and says thank you very much. What was the name again. Could you repeat that one more time for me. The very first thing you do when you say somebody part you give their name Voinovich ignorant to vicious. Thank you very much. I of-I I eventually. What's one more time brother. And he said it again he says. Oh hell the Lord knows who you are. He loved to reflect back on these days and he'd get carried away reflecting back on his days

in Round Valley and. He was describing the snow. And. Somebody said Will we get a lot of deep snow and salt lake by the Kimball. Was it deeper than salt than Salt Lake. He says our snow was as high to an Indian and that's pretty pretty high. I mean people were just baffled at his the way he describes things. He would. He would describe meetings with the brethren as a sweeping up mice herds was the phrase he would use because they were if they got involved in something such minutia. His diary constantly. Makes reference to sweeping up mysteries. And he would often sign his letters. Jay Gould and Kimballs scapegoat of the church. A woman called me and said that golden Kimball came over to

Nevada again sent by President Grant because lightning had hit this barn and completely destroyed the barn killed all the animals in the barn. And this poor brother in the church was just destitute. And so they sent golden Kimball over there this year and said You've got to go over and try and help us help him out because he has nothing. He's lost everything. But unbeknownst to Goldman. The neighbors all around the local area had taken up a collection. Prior to the arrival of gold and kibble and nobody told him that. So he arrives there and they'd all know that these were tough times for them and everybody else and. So they finally said Brother Kimball has called all the members of the church together and he would like to talk to us and so goolden had a cowboy hat brand new cowboy hat on and he took it off and he says No I think we all ought to do delve into our pockets and help his brother out because he has these destitute and he handed his hat and we went around the room and when it came back it was empty. He looked in it.

And he put it on and went home. And when he got back to Salt Lake this woman who was his secretary said well how did that meeting go over there for you. And he says it was a dam failure. He says I was just grateful to get my head there. OK the next story. The next story is probably of all the stories I've heard about Uncle gold and. This is. This ranks right up there as probably one of the most incredible stories. And yet it it shows again. How uninhibited he was and how quick his wit was. This story was told to me again by another general authority who attended the meeting where this incident took place. So we have it. We have them. We have it from a very good general authority. A reliable source.

Years ago many of you would remember the church had steak farms when I was a young boy we often would get up at 4 o'clock and go out and pick apples on the state farm. Maybe some of you had those kinds of experiences but it was a very common thing. They don't do it anymore because. The church has. I guess the church is one of the is the largest holder of farms and livestock in the United States today and that keeps the welfare system well supplied. With those kinds of. Services and goods and so they don't need these steak farms. But in those days when they did they would often ask golden because he was a cowboy and he was a rancher. And he was a farmer to go out. Look at these ranchers are farmers they were going to purchase. And so they grabbed in a welfare Amedi turn to says golden. There's a ranch down. Near Salina. We want you to go down take a look at it. The take down there was thinking of buying it. It's about 225 acres. We want you to report

back to our next meeting next week. Would you go out and take a look at it until you tell us what you think of it. So Golden says I'll be happy to do it. Heber. So he gets in these Monte. He drives all the way down 89. They show him. They show him this piece of ground. He makes notes on it. He goes back to the media and next week. Heber J. Grant calls the Wilfer media is going down this list of. Things to discuss and he gets to the Kimberley's and our brother Kimball would you please stand up and tell us about this farm or ranch you looked at that and sent near stampede. In Champi County. And tell us what you think of it. And God says I'd be happy to leave LIBOR. It was a little more than a 222 acres. And. The price on it was one hundred twenty five thousand dollars. It was I thought a good price he said it had a nice slope to it. He said you could raise alfalfa on the bottom half of it. It's fenced. You get about four or five cuts of alfalfa a year. And he said you could run cattle on the top with a lot of good feed up there and he says I think it'd be a good I'd recommend.

And I said Billy Kimball before you make any recommendations was there any water on it. He said yes. He says there's a smaller stream that runs down the south fence line. And presidents That's how big is it and he says well it wasn't much of a stream at all. Wasn't much of a stream at or maybe you know two or three second feed is we don't understand what how big was it. Goans is when I could pass it about halfway across here. And President Grant said Brother Kimball you're out of order at least. Yes and if I were to get a pest all the way across. Oh. OK. Your spring city is. You've all been there. Spring City up 89. Just off to the right below.

Was city. Pleasant Napa is just below Mt. Pleasant a ten mile 10 miles of Mt. Pleasant in spring city. Lovely place lovely place. Not much of a commercial area but some beautiful homes being restored. OK this again is another one of those stories that I don't know where you heard this sister but I couldn't believe it when I first heard it. A woman called indicate sweetie and said when we did the first tape of remembering uncle golden. She said I want to talk to Kimbal. I'll make a pledge but I want to talk to cable. She's 87. This happened to her when she was 17. She remembered this story and she told me on the telephone the story that night in the studio she says you want to talk to me and so I said well what's the story. And this is what with the story where she said that we had a peculiar situation here in Spring City because she said we had a bishop that was a very mild. Reserved. Quiet gentlemanly. Kind of fellow and she said we had a very aggressive. Relief Society president Sister Rassmussen

extremely aggressive very assertive and she essentially was running the ward brother Kimball and it wasn't right. I mean she was telling him who was paying for tithing and who should be called on missions what missionaries shouldn't be going because they they were fornicators and they smoked and and who should not be called to serve in the Sunday school because they had never returned the tools they had borrowed from their neighbor and it went on like this and and the poor bishop was just overwhelmed by it. And so these people she said started to write President Grant say send somebody down to fix this problem. The sisters running the ward it's not right. So. He recalled in Golden said could you go down. Here's all the stack of letters we'd go and go down and solve this problem in those days. That was a common thing for the brethren to do is to get in their cars and go solve problems and stay with the members in. And so they went to read all the letters and got in his $10 and he drove down and he got to spring city and he interviewed the bishop and he interviewed sister Rassmussen. And then he said

Well back to the bishop muses could I have just a few minutes in Sacrament Meeting. Would you mind. The Bishop said no. Will will give you any time you want. And so Sacrament Meeting with as usual. And then Gordon was called upon and he got up and she said this is what he said. He's got the pope and he says brother and sisters I'm happy to be with you. I want to ask you all a question. How many of you have ever had a sliver in your ass. Would you please show by a raise of hands. How many of you have ever had a sliver in your ass. And she said I had had one as a young girl. I slid down the slippery slide and go on so I raised my hand and slowly people started. He says. Good. You know how it feels. You can't exactly tell where it is or which way is headed or how to get it out. And so you need somebody to help you don't you. Well that's why I'm here. You have a sliver in your ass brothers and sisters and I'm here to help you take it out on all who can really assist

Rasmussen has really and what you do so by the usual sorts stuff. Is there any opposed. Thank you. That's a beautiful morning. The day after the storm. It's always the most beautiful. I'm sure I'll go to film just as. I'm feeling now. What. A lovely time this. Spring. It was in this home in Kansas Utah that my grandfather and

grandmother lived most of their married lives long man. Jane Kimball raised all the family here. He was a cattleman a Mormon bishop. And he was also the Indian agent to the Kadosh Indians who lived in the mountains. East of kin. And grandmother told me a story about their favorite visitor who was Uncle golden. He would often stop here overnight and stay for dinner then go on the next morning in his Model-T as he traveled south for the church in one assignment or another. And Grandmother said he would always time it to be here particularly when the preachers were on. She had several peach trees in the back and his timing was always perfect and He. Had filly's cowboy hat with peaches and always enjoyed the stay. She told me that at dinner one night the conversation centered around Lon's responsibility as the Indian agent and the conversation.

From the boys and from her at the table was how much they loved him how much they thought of him and how he was always in an intermediary for them with the white man. They loved him so much. She said that many of the PAP houses were being named after him. Every time a new papoose was born they named him Juan Kimball and then the Indian name. And Uncle Golding just sat there and listened to the conversation he didn't say much. But grandmother said the next morning when he left he. Had his peaches. In his head and his right hand and as they walked out this pathway. He put his arm around. Jane and said. Well now Jane I want to know how much I've enjoyed being here. Always enjoy the food and the company. But. In that conversation last night the statement about all the

pap Luce's be named after Lohn because all the Indians loved him so much. Now Jane are you sure that's the only reason all those purposes are being named after him. The heat bothered and cuckolding a great deal he would. He would often lament having to go to St George in the summer months he always said people got to go down there in January and February and he only got to go in July and August. But. He let those people down there. Particularly the people in St George because he always enjoyed teaching them about living in what he called this hell. Is unbearable hell. Tonight I'm going to perform at the St. George opera house my good friends Cherie and Ralph can arrange a lovely reception for our audiences.

You know. Even the mayor and his father were that right. Oh I've got some news for you. My mother my dad used to tell me so. Oh did he. He remembered that. Can you remember any of them tonight. I don't think he will come to me. He might have the wrong place at the wall to wall. Yeah I remember the story about. The Dixie. Cup. The brothers said. You've got to get back to the people who are watching that story came back down and. Apologize to you. Because you said if I had to say. So how could you say I'm a farmer. But it's still true. You don't have to be a very very. Good friend to. Get. Over this. And it came down one time. And.

He said Well Charlie won't be long now will we go find out how all this stuff we've been preaching how this all these years it's true. That Charlie was Charlie saying no signal. Charlie said no it won't be oh I listened to you on television in that segment I know. And I heard one story of my great grandfather says. My grandfather he was a judge here. Right. And. I'm sure you heard him in it will you. You tell me you tell me anyway. It was in the days when they used to. Although their bodies still already came down if it was you know. And then they don't go down in the tabernacle. And he. Preached the servants who told him about 15 times what a wonderful woman this was. She had done so much for the community and they kept pulling his coat tails and poking him and said. Something. And he. Said. You. Know.

It's beautiful. They said he gave the best funeral service they ever had in St. George after this. So he thought it was a man and it was a woman that died. Yeah I love a good girl but. He used to be really chubby with the. And I did that with my dad too. No no that was that was not one of these traits that a lot of. But here in Golden we're almost a perfect combination because that's what the straight man and a jokester and you get the sense you get out of this. Every year you have the same story. And so when they talked about it I said Well I'm glad you have that story. But I had to tell it to you. Well I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did. Last Christmas I went down to. The old. DEVERALL house in Salt Lake City Deveraux House is now a restaurant and people were having a Christmas party and they asked me to come

down and tell some golden stories which I was happy to do. And for me it is a great experience because oftentimes I will hear stories. I'm collecting all these stories and. And that night I really struck. A gold glow because this man came up afterwards and said your uncle Golden was was on his phone one day in his office and I was there I was supposed to be set apart to go on a mission and he said I was really looking forward to being set apart by your uncle Golda and someone from a national wire service called on the telephone and said there is a rumor in the east that the Mormons are preparing for the second coming and gold and he says I could hear both sides of the conversation. Uncle Goans is yes we do believe in the second

coming on he says. And the further to add to that rumor we believe it is it is understood that this angel Morone on the top of your temples will blow his horn when the second coming begins. And on all your temples all over the world this horn will be blown and the Mormons will then gather back in Salt Lake City and begin to move back to Missouri. No you got it all wrong. No truth to that at all. He says if the angel Moroni was on the temple were to blow his horn he'd go pigeon shit all over the east buildings. Of the south temple and we can't have that hung up the phone I mean

I'm going to have no time for the eastern press. Somebody told me that if I did that this took place in Cedar City and I don't know if any if anybody can authenticate this but in Cedar City they were going to do a broadcast that included the cities to the north and St. George and Las Vegas and all the saints were by the radios and it was a problem with the FCC and they had to watch Golden because the FCC could take away your license and the truth just barely obtain their license to broadcast and so President Grant called golden and said Golden I prepared some notes for you. This is going to be the talk you're going to give when you go with me to see the city. You don't you understand. And Goans as well will do my best. And so they get down to see the city and the broadcast begins and President Grant speaks and then he says I'd now like to hear from the president the first comma 70. Golden Kimball in Golden just

takes his speech out and dear brothers and sisters it is a great privilege to be with you today. Stumbled along for a few lines and finally just honest as hell Heber I can't read this damn thing. I'm standing in front of the famous. Tabernacle in St. George. This building was. Begun in about midway through the Civil War finished in 1871. It's probably one of the last remaining. Great tabernacles in the West. Many of them have been. Fallen into disuse and condemned and torn down. This wonderful building remains. It's famous for a lot of things but. The story that. To me it is most famous for. Occurred

about 75 years ago when two men. Came down this street walked up the sidewalk and into this building up the stairs. They were president Heber J. Grant. Of the Mormon Church an elder. Jay Gordon Campbell of the first council 70. Gordon Campbell was attending this particular conference with Heber J. Grant because President Grant requested it of him. By this time Golden's stories and language had become so offensive to President Grant. That he demanded a gold and travel with him and speak where he spoke. President Grant on this particular day. Chose to speak from a favorite text of his which. Which was that which we persist in doing not that the nature of the thing changes but our ability to overcome it is increased. And he cited as an example. His inability to sing as a young man. And the difficulty he encountered in how he practiced and practiced and took lessons and finally developed.

A really fine singing voice. And to prove his point he sang one verse. From one of his favorite patriotic hymns. The flag without a stain. And then he sat down. And then. Other Jay Gordon Campbell stood before the congregation. He cleared his voice. He says brothers and sisters I have to admire. Heber's abilities to persist and overcome his limitations. But after listening to him saying I still think he sounds like hell. The man that posed the biggest problem for Uncle gold and this is a story that President Kimball president Spencer Kimball told the Kimball family unit he told two stories about Uncle gold and to the Kimball family reunions are always kind of an out of control situation because I've got like 3000 cousins and it's I mean he Brasi Kimball had 43 wives 66 children 40 42

sons and daughters and a number of twins it was very big family. It's completely out of control and there's no place big enough for us to hold a meeting anymore. But Francis Liman would often pick either B.H. Roberts or uncle Golding to travel with him. And again we had a situation where Francis Lyman talked way too much. I remember the the 12 and then it seemed to drive B.H. and uncle golden crazy and they'd try to pass it back and forth because he'd to take the senior member of the first going to 70 or the next senior member and golden said in his diary that he would get even with the Limond because he would snore all night and even though by the time he would talk all day he would snore all night so golden said that they cancel each other out. In his mind and but

golden found that for the Weinman it was very very bothered because he couldn't get a good night's sleep in those days they slept in the same bedroom in the same house of members. It's very different than it is today. But Brother Lymon on a train in Texas woke gold up one night there in the same berth and he says the Kimbal could you wake up and uncle going said yes. What do you want it he says. I stopped off at a hardware store today and I was wondering I mean you're snowing again and I can't sleep and we've got to solve this problem. And here's some masking tape. Here's some duct tape that or that which preceded duct tape and he says I bought a big role of this and I'm going to tear off a piece. Now I was wondering if you'd wear it at night so I could get some sleep. And Uncle golden leaned up on his palms. I'll make you a deal. I'll wear tonight. You work in the daytime. But B.H. Roberts. Was in a

similar disposition about speaking because he would take gold in with him and he would give orations for hours he would debate people on Temple Square flight. Are they bringing that flight in bring ministers in on the train from the east and that debate about some aspect of Mormon theology. My dad said People used to stand in line around Temple Square for hours to get in to hear these debates. They don't do it any more but it was a great era of debate and dialogue in the church. Roberts of course would forget time and go on and on and on in one evening just to tell you about some of the dilemmas that Uncle Golding had in being around these great orators beach Roberts. They were in they were in Pennsylvania and Beatz Robertson went on and on and finally got to the end he said you could really send a brother Kimball if I forgot to tell these people anything go and jumped right at me says yeah age you forgot to tell him that when you die I'll be the senior member of the first Cormac's.

That is elder married to Hanks. Favorite story and I think it's because he was on the first Going to 70 for so many years. But the other story that President Kimball loves to tell which I found extremely humorous was at a family reunion after ranch Kimball died. Ranch Kimball would tell jokes Jagan Kimmel jokes and do magician tricks at the Kimball family. And then President Kimball would stand up and try and swing us back into a more spiritual mode. And sometimes he'd succeed and sometimes he wouldn't. And so when ranch died then President Kimball felt obliged to tell a few golden Kimbal stories and that's how these stories came to me because I would always call that story was told at the Kimball family in. The other

story is that President Kimball said that prior to being a state president in Thatcher Arizona that a little convert a Jewish German convert to the church a man about 70 years old named Heintz. Finally after many many years of study studying the Gospels said I want to be a member of your church. But Golden Kimball has to baptize me. So they and so we come down and baptize this little man and God knew who he was again in those days. The brothers were called on to do these kinds of things that were only too happy to do it they had the time and weren't 10 million members it's a very different church today it's probably 250000 members. So golden goes down and President Kimball said that they went out to this grove of poplar trees where there was a stream it was a spring runoff and it was more than a current in the stream but he says it was a beautiful spot and trees were just coming out. And he says we all gathered around on the bank. All the people from Thatcher to watch gold and

take this little German down into the waters of baptism and he took him down he and he said to the baptismal prayer and he and he dropped him into the water and the current caught the little German and gold and raised up his hands. And he said Damn I lost. And. President Kimball said people jumped in the stream I mean women and men fully clothed and dived into the water and that if they found him you know spurting water like a whale about 10 yards down the stream and he never forgot his baptism said he never forgot that experience. While I was in St. George I met with retired anesthesiologist Lawrence Reichmann.

Lawrence thanks for. Leading us here in St. George today. The city of your youth. And birth and birth. And calling me on the phone and telling me the jiggling story that you heard from your grandfather. All of us grandfather is named Mitt Nuti. He had been a cowboy or a forest ranger. And. Sometimes I think he embellished the story a little. We all do that. And he said that. This occurred. During one of the state conferences in St. George which was in the heat time. And there were no air there was no air conditioning of any kind in those days. Morning session went just fine. This was on a Saturday on a Sunday Sunday Sunday. And that went just fine. No problem. And then this. Two o'clock when I came there were not as many people that had been through the morning session. And Jake go and

asked the local authorities said. Where's all the people is it just too hot. And he's he said to Jay go. And they said no there's a very important baseball game going on out of the ballpark. Brother Camel got up and said we're going to dismiss from here and we'll meet out at the ballpark and that's about a four block walk. He walks into this park here with all the congregation following him over following him over. They went out into the bleachers Jay gold and went to the umpire and said I'm taking over this game. A I don't recall whether grandpaw said is that pitcher's mound or the cap home plate. He stood out there and gave his sermon. And he said. When he got through he said in the name of Jesus Christ a man play ball. I went up into the stands and watch the game. Was it a game. That's a great story. And I and everyone

was. I mean how what was the people's reaction. I think some were stunned. Some were pleased. And I think many were excited. Well my grandfather said he was excited. They cheered. They laugh they shared laughter every emotion. Right that's a lovely story. I love that. Sounds just like gold and very spontaneous free spirited understood that people. Took the mountain to Mohammed right. Yeah. And say my grandfather was one of those. Yeah yeah. He could say a few words like Jay going so he could relate to him very much. OK I'll tell you two stories about the great senator and apostle read Smoot. There was only one man in history the Mormon Church who was a United States senator and an apostle of the Lord at the same time and that was read Smoot. And golden light to

read and they had a kind of an off again on again relationship but both of these stories came from the Sloot family to me. And it's interesting that it would come to that side of the family because they're really quite insightful read Smoot when they made him a member of the corm the 12th golden saw him in the halls of the church office building and read went up and said Golden how are you going. Says well I'm fine. I understand that May-June apostle of the Lord now. Yes they have. And Gould says Well. He says I want you to know read. I respect you and I loved you and I love you but you are truly called of God because nobody else would have thought of you. I. And then read Smoot later

lost his wife he was in Washington. He was great senator Smoot-Hawley Tariff I mean some of the legislation he put on the books is still there today. I mean powerful man. And well-respected but his family said that when he lost his wife after an appropriate period of time he went to he began to ask some some young ladies out some sisters and he met Alice sheets and fell in love with her and he said I would like you to marry me and Alice said I'd be happy to marry you. I mean there was some difference in their ages. But Alice said I think it would be wonderful So when gets on the train it comes all the way back to Salt Lake to meet with the brother and ask him if that what she intends to do. Has their approval and they said Oh yes. Because I said it'll be one to she'd be a great companion for you even though there is this age difference. It'll be a happy marriage and we give you our complete endorsement and everybody was very encouraging to him. And he meets golden on the front steps of the church office building.

And Reid says I guess you've heard about my plans to remarry. Yes I did read he says Do I have you but you know of course you do read. But you know read you and I are old man or we soon will be. And she's just a young woman and. I don't know read on. No I think on the wedding night she's going to expect just a little bit more than the laying on of hands. The joke calling was a young man in Fillmore Utah and he told me this story he said that the young men in Fillmore Utah and the young women go through various phases of wildness and obedience. I mean it was this kind of a cyclical thing. You know depending on

whom they were looking up to and who was in charge and and what kind of examples they were following he said the class that I was in was particularly wild. He says they were drinking outhouse whiskey and and a lot of teenage pregnancies and smoking was starting and that was getting to be a fad and the brothers were very concerned. And the brother and called up President Grant again and he sent Golden down. Yes I remember that. Well this story that began here begins over and Holder in a quarterly conference of the LDS church in her room about as big as the ashes with Manchester City cherish where the stage up for front and all the dignitaries of the state and their Brother Kimball. Was.

Here at the lectern and left some of the other speakers who had been talking about the people that are carrying on and all that. I guess or rather Campbell. Think that same way. He was talking to his elder brothers and sisters. You don't need to worry about these young people. They're all right there to take care of themselves. These are old bald headed bastards on the front row. You want to look out for them. Boy I want it that way. Where did you get the rafted out there. You. Never heard such laughter. And I was surprised and I think that that is one of the things that I can only thing I ever remember of that conference.

I'll tell you a story about red because Richard Clawson was the president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. And what the cost would have been the prophets and revelators except that Heber J. Grant outlived him. So regular Claassen was often assigned to travel with Uncle Golding and this was a difficult situation for Uncle golden because rudder. Rudder was a man with a very limited sense of humor and he told this same story about this tragic experience he had in the southern states in 1878 and Varnell station Woodfield County Georgia on the 21st of July 1787. Roger Claus and his companion Joseph standing we're tracking through an area of the rural south and a mob of men

about a dozen men surrounded them and said we're going to take you in the woods and we're going to beat you which was a very common thing for women missionaries in the southern states. And so they took them into the into the woods and Joseph standing foolishly resisted them and began to push them back and sit and say leave me alone leave us alone. And they shot him right in the face. Killed him instantly. And the leader of the mob said shoot the other one. And Roger Cossack. So they're in full with his arms and said go ahead and shoot. And this unnerved the gang as well as the reader and they wrote off and Rudiger. And it was a very dramatic thing and rudder went off and found some friends that were sympathetic with the Mormons. They came back and poor brother standing body was riddled with bullets it all came back and shot at him so they were all mutually guilty of the death of a Mormon missionary. Now they were later found innocent in a in a sham of a

trial. And I went back and testified and he was advised to get out of the country or they would kill him. So he did. But this became a great epic moment in Rutger's life and he would tell this story time and time again and Gordon heard the story. And as you grow older the story became more and more embellished and instead of a mob of 12 it was a mob of fifty one. And it was it was never ending. And so golden would go with Roger to these conferences and never have the chance to be called on to speak because it took up an hour and 45 minutes and telling the story. And it got to be a little humorous because Golda knew what to expect and sometimes it would just be asked to give the closing prayer and he'd travel all the way to California and give the closing prayer and come back and he would say that's a waste of my time he said. But a brother called me and said that his father had had been in Idaho and Rudiger and Goldman were there together and what good did what he would

traditionally did and after the meeting as Golden was coming out and just kind of walking slowly with his head down he said my father went up to him and said Golden I'm sorry we didn't get to hear from you. We had come so far to hear you speak and and we're sorry about that as well that's very kind of you to see that. And he says aren't you getting just a little bit tired of hearing the story the same time over and over again. And he says Uncle Goans I am. And the more I think about it I feel we shot the wrong man. Well there's another aspect of the Golden that I think needs to be understood and that is these lines came from a

English playwright named W H Auden and I read this some time ago and I thought my gosh it's true. I hadn't said this. He said those that I like and admire I can find no common denominator but those that I love I can they all make me laugh. This is a Model-T. Ford. Road. Touring Car. This is a 1912 Ford Model T. Beautiful isn't it. Golden. Lord. I try and get this thing started. I. Don't I try to get this song.

So join me as I go on the road all time. So join me with you as I go on the road with Jay golden Campbell. This is a new one. I'm sorry I should have I made that transition so suddenly I will you forgive me for that. OK. Do I get any dinner tonight. That's. The. Local production of. On the road with Jacqueline Kimball is made possible by a generous

grant from the George S. and Dolores dory Eccles foundation