Tribute: Maurice Abravanel

Oh. And you. Stopped on the street one day in Salt Lake City. Marie said Ravenel was told by a member of the Utah symphony board of directors that he was making a big mistake as musical director. You're playing music that's way over our heads. Well I can lower the music a brother Nell replied. Or you can lift up your head. For 45 years Maurice and Robin Ellen gauged in a labor of love in Utah and the West helping us lift our heads to discover and appreciate the beauty of music and the power of all the arts in our lives. Even in retirement he served as a rallying point for the Arts a reminder of what the performing groups in the community could accomplish if their vision was clear and their motives correct. On September 22nd 1903 the music that was the life of Maurice of Robin L fell silent. There are many ways to honor those who make important contributions to our world. But one of the most important may be

simply to listen to their lives feel their inspiration hear their experienced words of warning and laugh one more time with the stories only they can tell. And so KQED offers the following repeat presentation of an interview with Maurice a brother now originally recorded in one thousand eighty six. While dated in one or two minor details it is in fact Vintage a brother now. Mari said Robin L was already an established name in music when he first raised a baton in the Salt Lake tabernacle as conductor of the Utah symphony in November of 1047. He would often say that success had come too quickly. In the 1980s he emerged as a

conducting star in Europe's demanding classical music capitals. It was in these pivotal yet formative years that he benefited immensely from study with the legendary conductor Bruno Valter. It was an exposure that would allow a broad NL to become a major international interpreter of vaulters own mentor composer Gustav Mahler in later years. Another critical early relationship was formed with composer Kurt Vile. After debuting as the youngest ever conductor of New York's Metropolitan Opera in the mid 1980s. Ravenel would broaden his musical world. By conducting many of her vile successful Broadway musicals. Vile has a lasting place in Broadway history and a Bravo NL was recognized as a critical force in shaping the performances. By the end of World War 2 NL was in demand throughout the world. At the same time Utah was struggling just to keep a part time orchestra alive. A pioneer tradition of music appreciation in the state was simply not translating into support for a symphony. The Utah symphony was in deep trouble and in desperate

need of a conductor and musical director for a Brahman L. It was a chance to build an orchestra in his own image. An opportunity to mold musical clay and a risk he decided to take in one thousand forty seven. In only a second year the symphony financially collapsed but a brother now convinced the musicians to play without pay for several weeks while an emergency fund drive scraped up enough money to carry on. He took the lead in fighting for the symphony's life leading to heated battles with then Governor Jay Bracken Lee whose tight fisted budgets offered little room for support for the Arts. But a brawl of an L fashioned a combination of political masterstroke and cultural outrage. He built support for the symphony through exhaustive regional touring to every small town that would welcome the orchestra. The state started to embrace the notion of a Utah symphony. While the symphony towards develop public support abroad of NL was steadily elevating the standing of the symphony in the eyes of tough music critics. By the mid 1960s the Utah

symphony was gaining a reputation as a first rate orchestra breaking ground with lesser known or newer compositions. Dozens of recordings followed along with the first international tour for the Utah symphony. The orchestra that was facing collapse only a few years earlier. A major heart operation slowed to bravo now in 1977 and by 1979 he decided it was time to pass the baton. But by then his place in music history was secure. The Utah symphony had been judged one of the 10 outstanding orchestras in America. A new symphony hall was erected in large part as a monument to a man and orchestra. Today it is the Robin L. concert hall. We asked Maurice and Robin al to join us in center stage at the hall to share memories of four decades in Utah. The conversation was recorded in 1986 shortly after his 83 birthday. Conducting the interviews composer musical director and recognized keyboardist Rick would notice. You were such a successful musician.

You had Europe under your belt Australia and New York. I think the question that everybody would like to ask you is why did you come to your town. Well it's a long story but you say I was successful. Yes and No. I must own much success as a very young man like on the Orleans there which in those days was considered by many to best into it and then the roaring success. But on the plane going back to class in a way I was permanently engaged I thought ha I fooled them. They didn't find out. All rotten I really am. And even those people and so on that's marvelous you know. So in other words I was that one exception. I was a calm duck. Who had an inferiority complex. As far as music his concerts. I knew my words. Maybe I was wrong but I thought I was a pretty above

average intelligence. Men generally speaking. After all I was three years in school and was quite successful in many ways. But as a musician I thought that really I did not have or do the three of us had to conduct a shrewd man. I called into legend and I called him to idealists. Well you're obviously a carved out quite a niche for yourself in the world of conducting prior to 1947 and will be getting into that in greater detail but in 1947 Why did you come here. Well simply because each time I had those big success the same thing happened in five days. Same thing happened we fought will be brutal. They thought I was great but I thought I am young Graham enthusiastic musicians love me therefore they play better for me but I will not. Have bit of the locusts. It was built for me.

You know that was that was the icing on the cake that was there then and I was able. Was and will be denture circumstances to prove to myself that I would get to be couple. This made them believe very well and so I thought no could I do that on a permanent bases. I was in a make and season. And so I was looking for a place where I could prove that. And their game still played there was a gold. And silver plate only for one year. Well Gunther Schuller. In his new book musings mentions you quite prominently as being one of the two American music directors with such a commitment to an orchestra musical directors good actors the other being Ormandy in Philadelphia. In fact he says there are some positive examples of Sue Purba music directorships take the case of Maurice or Bravo

now and he goes on to tell about your singular commitment to the Utah symphony. And I guess in that sense you may have answered that question but what compelled you to devote your career to the Utah symphony at that point. Well frankly there were several Eason's ones won't find the need to escape. Great performance a week. I want to take it easy. I was 44. And I was ready to start you know. And so they told me 10 concerts and they told me we make off for three years here like then who is a. Vice President and the manager who lovely lady came all the way to New York. To meet me. And we do street scene and we do recording session with Columbia. We're very impressed. And so and so then I came here on my

way to San Francisco. I was conducting a stunt out there and I stopped and they took me to City Creek Canyon and hills I saw apparently somewhere and maybe my eyes invented it. But I decided this is the place. And I loved it. And so you asked about my beginning CMI beginnings are very simple. Do the most important thing in this wire dwell so much on it is the fact that for me the ideal performance was. But. The message and even if it was at the expense of rescission. Absolutely. I knew Verdi felt that way for coffee and felt that the way via the felt that way.

And that way and you felt that way. I felt that way from the beginning. I preferred to a pianist who would never miss a note that was called like an iceberg. I would be for one who wouldn't be. I love Rubinstein the words I thought he was the greatest. Even though he missed in those early days the orchestra had tremendous problems financially. Obviously they had found a man who cared for them on a level committed to making music. But there were some tremendous problems in the second era I think the orchestra was in it was on the verge of collapse and how did didn't you persuade the musicians to play for a couple weeks without pay or something how did you do that. It was very simple when the president and manager where called me the next morning to tell the music it was all off. You see as a candidate. Governor Blackcomb Lee according to every board member had.

Promised. To pay to make an appropriation to do you the same funny. Then the really neat and completely totally for years. And so do those. Members of the Bald. Felt that only cost them treated. No question. And. They knew they could not raise any money because they had tried to is for three months for three years. I think they tried four hundred and fifty thousand. They actually pledges for five actually. Many of the players did not realize how did you hang on in that second it is very simple so I told. When I heard about it which was very late for the book. Please don't say that. That it's all over because it's illegal. You have a contract with the musicians they

have contact for 20 years and just as a musician cannot come and say I have a contract offer with a salary goodbye. He is committed to that. So are you committed. And their answer was Well what can we do we have no assets. Which was true. Because by that time it was clear that the state would not come through. The city or the county could not give more than what they were giving which is more than what they give today in percentage and they knew that the public had been asked for three years so how could they come in the middle of the second year and say we need more money. And those who have been generous. To keep it going already for several weeks felt it was money down the drain. So what did you do. So I convinced you know those people not to come and said if you come I will be very embarrassed but I will have to tell the musicians to disregard what you say. Its elites who praise them.

So I told him look you're here today. He said this to the musicians. I said to the August I'm. Not here. Now I believe that this community that I believe is basically a very exceptionally decent community they just don't know what they are doing. Now if you do the thing with trees you have not been paid. You walk off to draw. You in a way acknowledge the finality of that this season of the fall. And if they can raise the money while you played there is it if you stop playing concerts are you convinced the musicians to keep on playing. I did not exactly convinced them. I just told them the facts of life as I saw them. I told them that I would call 8 times a week. I would understand if anybody could not go to buy their groceries for his family but even we had 70 musicians and

if I had only twenty eight I would play hide and mortar out but we would play. I talk to a hero totally still with stories being written by the name of Bell Burnell be you know you thought you were secretary of the Musicians Union men. Regulations. And when I told him what I thought was brewing and he said to me this community has tried to have an orchestra and fizzled out. This is the first time it looks as if it might take. I will close my eyes. I trust you. No matter what you do I am with you. What happened. What happen is that not one musician came even late.

So we went on playing cards. I did not give a single interview. I played it low I did not want to hurt the feelings of the people who have to have the best in the community. They had agreed to serve in a board for symphony orchestra so the orchestra continued to thrive for three and a half weeks. At no time did anybody tell them that there was a Chinaman's chance that they would get a penny. No one missed. No one came late. Tell us about some of your. Run ins with some of the people in those days that you worked with as the orchestra grew. For example you mentioned briefly that Jay Bracken Lee then-Governor you see if you permit to take I like to take the broader perspective you know your voter perspective for me is this

is the only place except for New England said of the Puritans that were set or not for reasons of good soil or good climate but for specialty reasons. Yes. By people who came here so that they could pursue their faith belief their believes. The first three generations in you would do community meaning their church but that was the community it was everything it was the transgender State community above their personal. Interests. They built the Bowery right away when they had no roofs over their heads. They built a Salt Lake. So from home. They paid musicians in 1870s every time they would come together in this old Lake Theater and Brigham Young made

the decision reluctantly but he made it so those people made the top is the capital of the state capital. Look at that beautiful. Did anybody say we want to trade. There is as has been said for the last 50 years. Did that start with trade Brackenbury. No not entirely. First World War. Finally after three generations of the friends for the sake of the community you dance behave like normal human beings. They decide in Kansas City they have a car. And they have better looking girls or whatever and they decide to have something for themselves. So next example Kingsbury Hall the architect told me put in a bid for a real theater. They didn't take his big and they build something which is not a theatre because it is a stage but no side stage no

backstage totally in the wet but cheaper. So the thinking had been trained. So I said this is the broader perspective. Brought it to a climax because a Second World War there were rationing and whatever. And after the second world all of course and all over the world. There was the feeling no let the good things in life. He was elected on that kind of platform. He went all out. To try and he succeeded in giving. Education is little both high school and university with a vengeance with a vengeance. If anything. That. Was the pride of Futa And of course as far as the arts are not a dime of the train was saying if my wife wants to see an orchestra

she goes to San Francisco. So he was completely uncooperative. Not I'm told by a TV was right. I mean new tied the first Art Institute in the nation 1899. The first one mostly for visual arts by the way. And that you know this is the story of music. There were some very good people here. I knew you were and are excellent musician. You gave concerts and then for lack of financial support stop you went east you went to jail I went to Cleveland you. To stop everybody when it was announced in The New York Times I was going to play it. People would bump into me on the street say you are going to Salt Lake you know I would love to go back I am from Salt Lake. I am from you. They were playing in Radio City or wherever you know and saw but there was it wasn't as good.

There was absolutely no chance for these to make a living in Utah and yet you had allies along the way. What about David O McKay. President or Marquis was that he would call me to tell me he could not come to the concert because I have the cord or whatever you know it was marvelous. But even he was influenced. And yet here is the man who gave you the tabernacle rent free in 1950. No no it was given by a drawn Smith in 1946 one year before I came here. They were already in the tabernacle. They were in the dark when they came it was only one year before. But in 1949 when the orchestra went back up and I think. Some of the Brethren you know we decided not to have Utah symphony anymore but the point is that 500 miles from Salt Lake anything

good is credited to anything bad is there to do Mormons you know I have headlines you know say we are Mormons place warm lake. If you know anything existing there in those days was the Mormon. And so it was the Mormons who for lack of funds stopped operations office in the city and so they hear the very very good riot to feel very double crossed. You know. I don't want to go too far with that any rate there was a reason. And so then it was President but they reversed the decision. That they've been made they understand who you know that we could not go in there anymore. So here you've heard the decision and we were permitted to play into that right until this building was built where this beauty was very. And he personally was marvelous. More

stuff was much less so as well not so marvelous you know. But you had basically the support of the church in your yes or no. Yes and No. When that appropriation I was talking about all the state was first voted almost unanimously by Senate and House but then went back only vetoed eight top financially men of the trial so I see these slowly because this is not. Gossip DC's fact me by Republican members 30 years later. That man was spokesman for the secular things of the church came to the legislature and told them to opt for the veto of the church. So yes yes yes yes.

And many times I remember when I wanted to host top of the tree you know when I defected I immediately called you august don't stop all of it. Well the only data could come too. I said OK we'll have it for recycling and some underling said no. Nori cited why communists and so on no no. We had many of those. But basically also the fact that the Tabernacle Choir refused to sing with the youth for years and years was why was there I believe it was because the Tabernacle Choir had been the one and only internationally and nationally known institution. And so some people were afraid that if the symphony were successful it would take away form. Then there was something personal because my first visit when I got out of the market and that was very funny. He did manage

to come in and manned up and stayed up. The manager was a lady. And I said I came to pay my respects and I saw that the Ninth Symphony has never been played. Wouldn't it be wonderful to join forces. He said no. Separate wise it would kill their voices. I said that never killed devices believe me I am very well known to be very understanding of voices and so on. And so finally said well you are the states we are the travelers the two don't mix well. To complete the picture with the Tabernacle Choir I must say that in 1976 the bicentennial was a lot to conduct a choir and believe me that was one of the greatest moments

in my life when I was introduced to them and when we worked there was absolutely universal love. Then and it was one of the greatest experiences. And back on the same since the Book of Mormon No I don't know you and again it was a marvelous marvelous experience. There were some negative powers as usual well at times more influential than the positive ones you know. So you ask about the president he was for us to link and file away and passionately for us passionately. There were a few people in between. We saw it form a very powerful you know and where definitely against us. When did you first consider yourself a ute. Well you know it goes a little further the game back. I came to

America in 1936 with a metal body that was not America. You spoke English you spoke with German Italian French with no English. Nobody spoke English there. And I would go quickly back to Europe you know right after the season which was very short 16 weeks in those days really did not taste them a daily I left them at the technique of oh Coralie there. And even then doing those ears. I knew I was there you are playing with me you wanted to be a very very loyal citizen but still you have been through a night already conduct all along. And then in 46 45. I left to Australia again. There were no planes over the Pacific so I had to go to London. And already in Ireland to my surprise in trauma they had my

eggs. Everything that were in very short supply in America for years because we failed our duty. I'm glad we did to send that to the allies. The Irishman figured that way at all. That was my first truck my second truck was the norm. I was told they didn't know whether it was wise to accept for a billion dollars. You know because I always thought that if I make I was giving them on a day where after all the givers and other wild peons should be good for you know clearly I that was saved by Mark and I make and hopes for what they fear most the yellow peril they were singing songs about. Where the money and the cigarettes and therefore all the girls and then in Switzerland where I'd spent my youth I ahd all kinds of drugs

with the dollar is their god and all of that and again a very food table at that time we're still in America ration. And so death. I became a Yankee chauvinist. All of a sudden I felt like an American and I came back. 46 exactly feeling really black and I may not at all anymore like a European. So when I came to you it was even more so. I mean all the beauty you people don't realize in Barrie is there is a fence in front of every hours in America you have no fences anywhere. It's FREE. People want water who saw it said you know two centuries earlier that you wanted one and a half century everybody to have the draw of saying good nice lawn and so on. It was not done in France.

It was done in America. And you've spoken of the mountains. I love the mountains that remind me of Switzerland especially to you. But the feeling I found more kindness. In fairies you could not leave a place without people immediately telling things against you. Whoever left immediately was the but you know something in Salt Lake you could leave a party and people said nice things about you know. You used to. You used to many tactics. One of which was a dedication and a commitment from the heart. To help the symphony grow in all those years what was a thirty two. But in the first couple of decades you worked very hard to increase audience awareness of the Utah symphony. You marketed that symphony effectively and you were everything you were the PR department the marketing department the music director. How did you manage to find energy for all those tasks. And how did you succeed in making the Utah

Symphony the predominate arts organization in Utah. Where the first thing that happened when know anybody you want to do addition and I break the musicians I do have a very good instinct not. This is called being good in technique and Levon at the time of the edition with according to my best ception. Off their need to mend their love of music the last thing for many that if they would. Be accepted thing to do You would seem phony they would work their head self and with a very few exceptions that's what happened. That's what happened. Those people there were exceptions but most of those people worked and worked and worked and became better and better and better individually so that was the first thing work extra became unified that side. But on top of that. Everything that government meant to music you know

90 in the mid 60s or late 60s the Rockefeller foundation of the Volga of playing contemporary American music of living composers a composition that had never been played anywhere and so I enrolled right away you know and got they would pay the salaries of for the musician for the whole week. And would have 60 officers and then concert. And still. Michael Steinberg the very field critic in Boston the Boston Globe. And Mike Martin book Spann. Who was a consultant for the Rockefeller Foundation came here and they both said it's very simple. More stalkers will give 60 percent 70 percent. When you are lucky you are because that gives only then 25 percent. They did so the audience came to trust you

all the answers were sometimes with us not always with us. Look I tell you something very typical then I would get after former members of my board vice presidents would tell me Look we still have and that's why I had what you opening a way of. Saying Ok there are two possibilities you want me to normal music. All batteries in your head. What did he say we had to all dance collectively did the exact lead that there is that. Oh yes they have beauty very much. There was there's a story told in the early days a very critical time in the orchestra's history. You you managed to do two things at once you secured financial support for the symphony and you began a process that would eventually broaden your audience base by regional touring and it had to do with the gin rummy game. Remember that with a busy morning the game is a true story.

There was the manager and he got his name was Lou Blackman for Moe mind you know like to grow old with these woods and so on and tried to interest him in broadcasting all Constance The first feel that way. And I prepared to specious one to win of the head of Bennett and the second if would win him over to convince him that I could play only symphonic music. I never had to deliver either of the speeches he was able to write the way. And so for two years we had this EMI they promoted those concept too big. It was marvelous to do it but after we went bankrupt and I told you before I don't blame them. Some people felt that the symphony brought bad. Name to this community and they didn't want to have anything to do with us. So I went up and down Main Street and

I got individual sponsors in that case a bounty for their web then sponsor would pay them $100 each to have one broadcast. But I knew I needed to respond so I went to the loo Buckman. And I couldn't get very far. Obviously symphony you know one symphony. And so I asked my friend Maurice who was and that rolls that was a long ball. I said Look Maurice could you saw my range within an hour where I can talk with him. So surely I can get anywhere. So we arranged a dinner and afterwards would be a dream of me with Maurice and Jules and brought back money and me. And there truly that night Jane Jane Jane were playing the center part of whatever it was. And so after a while little Bookman got furious and more furious. Want to train

us. It went on Dream dream and I went away being cleaned the next morning my manager called me and said What have you done the studio's a dream home I will never get a penny from granny got them these furious and sounds of what I said last night for the first. You paid so much attention to do you with us in funny and really that was the night. When we did other things made our sales and he got us all homes. You must have been aware that by getting funding from the legislature to provide support for your touring into delta and Moab and Garfield and Richfield you were building an audience base for your time. This is the other way around the U.S. in 49 and when the states are voted then to sustain these veto and which went there and neurologically true they've been the end of the Utah symphony you know.

The reason was that most. People in their lives are slaves who are not from Salt Lake felt that this was not really huge when it was a Salt Lake Sinfonie it's a matter of fact several people on my blog wanted to call it Salt Lake to allow money whatever because the state didn't do anything for it. And so I decided then to tour the orchestra as much as possible and so we would go to any place that would bring up a few hundred dollars and then we started $500 and that would not always pay for the expenses and we had. About three currently living. Difficult man I'm sure you meant well but he had the vision of maybe two inches and would refuse to sign the tracks for all the bus all the motels and some of. The Army about it you know and so I told.

That man and he said. This is a sucker's legal and we have to stop that nonsense. And I said well I'm not going to stop we're going to bleed all over the state and then someday we will be morally. And tied to the Jewish state subsidy to a state that Pope and the Duke about 20 years. Tell me about. International touring the orchestra is about to embark. On its sixth international tour. You were the one that took the orchestra the first international tour. What's the significance of international touring. Why is it important for the Utah symphony to tour in Europe. Well you know having been to falter in the years and they've been the Malays deny the hell that you generally speaking have. A twofold view and one like every citizen of

blaze that's the more like Australians for instance. We are no good. The other one we are better than anybody. Those two attitudes in their hearts and so on no matter what we did with their youth symphony they still consider how could salt lake really have that's going to knock us down. Then we started recording and here again I did things that nobody had done before. Then we now back our game. That's a lovely story that is not well known. She played with the symphony and the next day she said you know this orchestra is a little like the Vienna Philharmonic. It should be heard everywhere they said oh yes he did. We have a recording. She said no no in the flesh it's not the same. And then she said Would you come to Athens if I get you an invitation from the festival. I said you better talk to my president.

All those years I've never made one penny without checking with the manager. Never never never you know they never interfered with my artistic decision. And so talk to the president was said by all means. So in due time we got an invitation to go to Athens. In the you rock face you know soul Iraq was the number one place you know he was my agent was of course the agent to the stars and so on and so forth in that office was a prominent British agent who knew me for my European Metropolitan Opera days. So when you have my name on the telephone is that these that are there and they said yes. Did you see iTunes festival yes. Do they ever do. I don't know if told me they said look you are not going to go to our tents in Salonika. Can I book you a tour now I had already gone there the Berlin

Philharmonic twice with good success. And of course Mahler eighth among others was a sensation. In Europe especially in Germany and Austria and so they said by the way yes at the festival than the Berlin festivities the most truly festival in the world and so we were booked for the festival. With that. The British agent could say last in Vienna. Everywhere we had eight consonants Eudore started or started with. I was interviewed in The New York Times and I said I call it science. Saint Gina. The building that we're sitting in now was constructed right at the end of your tenure with the Utah symphony you built this building I consider basically Who are some of the other people who helped you put this magnificent structure together.

Well I didn't get the building do you want a symphony did all of my might than if it were on the floor. BLAIR Yes and you never that was the uniqueness of the August U.S. that called me the man of everybody in the orchestra so that we give 100 percent of what we hand in so even if we individually with a few exceptions don't beat this and quite a few of the doormats really do well not as good as their counterparts you know. But they gave everything they had. I gave everything I had. And at first when people started talking about symphony. Because the tabernacle was very dry but there were voices that said it was dangerous may be blasted for an unformed move at one time so we were told we could not give concerts for holy year. We went to Highland High you know. And so when they would call me I would say first you have to

pay the musicians properly. So I did not for. All I first first came to musicians then to be the thing. But when the time came that we had to do it then I went all out and my contribution was a very simple one. I met three or four big operations on the field our money called in New York and it was still awful succeeded in making it possible. And so I had the greatest respect for him. He's an acoustic serial here he's administration and architect. And so I got him interested in Salt Lake. And so the day that bond election was passing drug. Was a very wonderful citizen. Not just a very successful publisher. Of the three beyond you know but these very concerned

citizen drug I've found the leads are going to pass and they say they're OK. Let's make a deal. I would stay out of your way if you called this man and put him in showers and I gave him the number I told him and that Columbia University Of Satan as he called serialize Kamya Lucy so wonderfully made his father bidding boards you know with to pass on him and they decide to engage him in other words this is as far as I know the one and only hole in the world where instead of firing first an architect. And then telling the kid they want you have to come certain acquisition was the other way around. A concert hall should first be good is a concert all year for the ears. Then for the eyes. And so in these cases is the distinction of being hired

and put him in charge. He had to pass on the tax we from and that he thinks knew that they could not get away with a single storm that would not be the best possible acoustically in this is why the Boston Symphony and all the other bits of the game said this is the best modern home we ever played in I want to talk a little bit about music and why people come to the symphony. Music is a part of our lives. I mean that's there's enough music to go around for everybody there's a kind of music. But this is maybe too large a question but what is music to you. Well there's a very simple answer your question I already told you two lesions. One that I pick of works I believe deeply in deeply but for several years I would not even play the triple concerto Beethoven

later after the audience was totally deeply familiarise. We've Beethoven and Mozart and Bach and Hyde and B C and then I would start doing the second actual on off works I had started the first year to play modern works and a very influential person went to a very influential critic to say I hope you write two more if that's the music plays that we are not going to come. And the man of Gatsby came to our free sensitive that's a music plays don't expect a penny from us. So I called him I said isn't that economy. Boycott that you are threatening. And of course you want to hear the world economic boycott in 1947. The New Deal was

still in charge in Washington. So he came and made a donation of fifty dollars so the programs I played only first played music and music I believed in. What do you mean by that. I mean important to you what makes the work important work is that it is a message. Music is not just a combination of song it's not just an intellectual. Shoot on the intellectual level we can never compare with mathematics which I love by the way. Or Science never. And it was tried you know to flame me. You know things for 36 different voices and it was discovered that you know it was not or they're great. I still enjoy music that appeals to me already so really I enjoy looking at the score admiring all of the wonderful

mental work that went into it. But if it does not match for me my entire body. You know this is the greatest For me music is so important all over the world it is all kinds of music because it reflects what goes on Leno minds and our hearts and our bodies. You know tension relaxation we have that from the grave blood. Breathing Breathing God. It's called in spirit by the way the blood coming through the heart. Mentally being tense being to relax. That's what music is about. That's what harmonies are about. That's what the total system is about. And this naturally is what makes people all over the civilized world spend millions and millions on music. Do you feel that there's a change in the atmosphere of the support of the arts in

Utah are we sill still supporting our artists and the arts in you don't say still we are again supporting I mean do influence of work and leave was time in this because it came on top of the general attitude of the American people and more civilized people after the war to enjoy life. In other words to think of their own you know feelings you know. And I mean you take education you take education you know. Any men. Who fathers a child in or out of wedlock. And doesn't face to is a sponsor I believe these two their child is properly called unanimously we knew father more than most people in the United States. But when it comes to education we have refused to face up to our responsibilities. And that makes us fiscally responsible citizens. That again a day

was last week when the Republican Party finally decided we need more revenue more taxes. This is civilization. In that regard where does art fit in. You once I read a quote that you once said Art should be consoling. What do you what do you have to say about that now. Why do we need art. You need Darth Buchan Lee did not need you know. And then a lot of people don't need dots throughout the story of mankind. The mud Droit de did not need it. They need their food today. Almost everybody. Then they have his food and so people need their sports their athletics whatever they need. Their TV whatever you know. And so that's fun. That's fine with me. But some are we are proud. Of what is brought to mankind. My line is very

very simple. We are you and I and everybody here according to your believes. Probably you believe in evolution. There is a lot of reasoning for evolution. In other words we are just a little higher than apes now. If you are very religious you also believe in creation. So we are just a little law mangers. No I believe we are both. I believe there are a lot of proof for both theories and what he's doing is that it brings us a little bit closer to doing a little bit for apes. Do you need more. Reasoning to support them. I was quoted in The Los Angeles Times it seems that years ago Larry Pressler influential senator was in the house and there was testifying in Congress he said Mr. Whalen can you tell me in 15 seconds why I should support the

arts as representative of South Dakota. We don't have any out there. And I said for the same reason that your farmers plant also flowers. And that's it. That's it. You gave your life to build the symphony to build art out here. You built the symphony. You did with a lot of help. Granted but you built it. You created an atmosphere that was sort of a spin off arts mentality in Utah that makes the state culturally rich. Now you will be remembered as one of the men influential in the building of this hall. I'd like to know. How you would like. Us to remember you. I'd like to be a team member. Obviously as somebody would try to be useful to his community next to the music community was second I'd told the musicians many times. My first duty is to music. My second duties to the community. My third you used to do

musicians and that too. Seriously you know. And don't forget that that I had formed as thought. I never made this speech and I made a lot. After 1949 after we went bankrupt and Bach and he was the Barbarian. I made a lot of speeches and I always mentioned the need for a decent public library and the need for not that many. Always always always. And so because I believe in the total picture of justice I have been a supporter for the pair just as I had to start by Lee West's Christensen to the St.. I say I because it was for some of us who were the university did not want crystals and I helped CHRISTENSEN I conduct all the ballet performance including someone on the hundred and fifteen of caucus free of

all of those areas. I told my players that they should play for the ballet at minimum union rates except for a few principals and so on. So I helped bring that up and I'm very proud of that. And I love to be a member. Sandy Nettie said many times you know that I was in his relation to him for very very very best and not to give in life to be remembered as a good citizen. I used to say I'm citizen first musician second. Have the years been long or short. What was the first word. Have the years or years very very few days are much much less. It's a beautiful life. It's a beautiful nation. We do all the

mistakes we made there are numerous. It's still the best to beautiful state and we all whether we are Mormon so or not we are all doing in the area of those people who came here for a spiritual reason not to matter you know one even if many of their descendants have forgotten it. But we are the beneficiaries. It's a great state. And let me as a last I know you want to tell you do way I see to ground the miracle of fuel to is that there is a very large majority very happy to intermingle. A small minority of big OT's both. Mall mon and time mall and began its very Vulcan was senior moment on the every rug was CN Nall moment on the every aisle but down a small minority. The beauty of these things it is that

as we go over them as do we seize them to accept with open arms. People who come here and can contribute something to the entire medical school which she's mildness at the University is an example of that this is the beauty of the way I have been treated by and not very beautiful I had a lot of wild knocks but still by and large I have been through the modernist and you build about what I gave to those they let me see what the state gave me. And that's not that's my will for looking good. Video cassette copies of tribute Maurice of Robin L. are available from KQED through

the University of Utah press. The VHS copies are $24 with a price including tax shipping and handling to order your copy please phone the University Press Monday through Friday between 9am and 4pm in the Salt Lake Valley the number is 5 8 1 6 7 7 1. Elsewhere you may use the toll free telephone number 1 800 4 4 4 8 6 3 8.