Civic Dialogue; Attorney General Jan Graham

And during. The elections of 1993 Mark did you trapped or in the history of Utah politics as Jan Graham became the first woman elected to statewide office as the new attorney general. Not only has she served the last few years as the state's top legal advocate but she realizes her position holds additional significance as well. The idea of being the first woman hair being actually the first woman in a statewide office in Utah of course has. A very special meaning to me. And one of the. Things I think a lot about in my role as attorney general is our young people and young girls who need role models to look up to and I would be lying to you if that wasn't of very genuine personal importance to me because it is. Tonight a one on one conversation with Utah's attorney general Janet Graham. We'll discuss her campaign against Family Violence her battles with partisan politics and we'll find out if she's running for re-election in

96. All of that tonight on civic dialogue. Drew. Good evening and welcome to civic dialogue I'm Ted Kapler. Thank you for joining us. Our guest tonight is Utah's attorney general Janet Graham. Not only is she the first woman in 100 years to be elected to the statewide office in Utah but she is also now the state's highest Democratic officeholder. She's with us tonight to talk about her campaign to protect children to end the family violence and what other issues her office will be tackling in

1996. Madam Attorney General thank you for joining us. Nice to be here. You have voiced strong opinion about the DUI law driving while under the influence. Should it be tougher Are you going to propose to the legislature that the law be changed. Yes and in fact we have made the proposal. Essentially there are a number of elements to the new law that we're going to try to get through the legislature in January but the most important change is right now in Utah I think this shocks most people when they hear it. It takes for DUI convictions to get a felony conviction on your record. I think that's preposterous. And getting three convictions only to be misdemeanors and no felony on your record. Is letting them off way too easy so we want to ratchet that four down to three and in fact may look at a future time of even getting it down to two. So your second conviction is felony.

And after you've been convicted as a felon whether after two arrests or three or even four do you go to jail. Absolutely and you know a felony conviction is the one. That really has broad implications for it for the convicted criminal. And it means that there will be there will be some prison time served. There's going to be a stiff penalty there's going to be a suspended license there's going to be restitution of some was hurt. And also having a felony on your record means that. You're going to have to account for that in your future life. For example felony convictions mean a felony conviction means you can't buy a handgun under the Brady law. So there are all kinds of implications of that. And that's it's been the way it is too long and we're anxious to change it and we believe this one will sail through the legislature at least I hope it will and will vote to reduce the number of DUIs. Well we certainly hope so I think to send a

message to someone who has one conviction that you've got three more chances before you get a felony. Is backwards of what we should be trying to do with this system so we've got great support for these changes for law enforcement. And we believe that they'll be bipartisan support of the bill and you know if you want to reduce it from four to three to have a felony conviction. There was a story earlier tonight on MacNeil Lehrer. Now the Lehrer News Hour since mid-May was no longer there. From California dealing with the three strikes you're out. And the governor of California pushing that hard or you favor both two three strikes you're out on any major arrests the three strikes you go to prison and maybe you never get out. Are you favorable to that. Well we have something like that in Utah. In fact we have. I think what is a rational and responsible version of that we have a habitual offender law. And it has a protocol for if you have a violent felonies and you know a really

serious felony convictions for more than two what it means and there is the possibility that a convicted criminal would what in fact never get out of prison. The three strikes you're out 20 and so have Lou across the nation very quickly. I can tell you that the attorneys general of all 50 states had a lot of concerns that that be done in a rational and productive way. You want better law enforcement. You want more teeth in the system. You don't want your hands tied. So in Utah we have a strong law that the prosecutors like it works. Let me invite you if you have a question or a comment for JAN GRAHAM our attorney general here in the state of Utah to call our number 5 8 1 7 7 7 7 is putting people in jail this was also debated earlier on the Jim Lehrer News Hour is putting people in jail the answer to solving the crime problem is that the

primary way to do it. It's a big piece of it for a couple of reasons. You have to have a message to would be offenders that the system's going to get them. Sounds simple. It's not. You have to have a system that says to victims that when they've been brutalized or their family or someone in their family has been brutalized by a violent act. That the system is going to take care of it that there will be a fair and just punishment. That is a fundamental piece of a just society. Right now. I would say in Utah and in the United States. Our belief in that system. Is a little bit rocky right now. We're not sure. We're not sure. If in fact a lot of people don't get away with a lot of crime. A lot of violent crime. And I think that you have to make changes that make people believe that the system works. We're lucky in Utah we're doing better than most other states we have a

system that for the most part. Is efficient. We do support our law enforcement. But there are still there are still problems and there are still injustices. The victims movement in Utah long overdue and getting its due attention is now finally front burner. And that's been a major part of course of my priorities in the attorney general's office is we fighting for victims. Well I want to talk more about that in a moment. We also have many more overcrowding at the prison situation. We've sent a bunch of them I don't know the number. A lot to Texas to be imprisoned there and we build a new prison in the central part of the state. Should we be building more. What are we going to do with all these people who are convicted of major crimes. Well our prison population in Utah is going eight times the rate of the normal population. I would have to double our prison space in the next 10 years. Those are sobering facts. Is there an alternative

to having prisons to house violent offenders. I don't know of one. So my answer for the short term is yes we have to build more prisons space. Yes we have to lock these people up. No we can't cannot have child sex offenders out on the street we cannot how violent felons out on the street. So until we figure out the root causes of crime and really do something dramatic about it yes we have to lock people up and we have to keep the community safe. And what do we do with them when they're locked up are we. You believe in rehabilitation or do you think that that's not what prisons should do. Oh I think it's a very important goal. I think there are certain kinds of criminals that are not rehabilitatable. Lots of evidence in the area of child sexual offenses that those. People cannot be rehabilitated. And the question is then what do you do with those people. My answer is I know one thing you don't do with them. You don't return them to neighborhoods with children in them. And people say well we've got to give these people another chance to have a normal life.

Those people think that that person ought to be released to have a normal life anywhere but in their neighborhood. And being a mom myself and any parent out there knows we just cannot take those kinds of chances so if there is demonstrated evidence that a criminal can be rehabilitated of course I'm all for it. Now we've talked about one of your primary priorities for the coming session of the legislature changing the DUI laws making it tougher. What are your other priorities for the upcoming legislative session. Well I really have three major pieces the second one really has to do with shortening the appeal time and cost for serious felonies and in particular capital cases where the death penalty. Is is at bay. That process takes too long regardless of your views about the death penalty. That process takes too long. It's too expensive. The people don't understand why that has happened. We have a case now. In our office that's been pending for 13 years. People don't understand nor should they have to understand a system that's that

bogged down. So we're shortening up the process making lawyers work faster making courts decide it faster. We're working with the court groups on this to try and get a consensus reformed that will be my second major piece of reform legislation that will sponsor this session. Well that is a lofty goal and all of us who have lived through these past nine months with the O.J. Simpson trial have that same question why did it last so long. Why did it last so long. You know there's no good reason why it lasted as long as it did. There may be lots of explanations you know have to do with very ambitious and very expensive counsel. That trial is a vast aberration from the way the system works the way the system should work in the way it does work in Utah. So I hope people will not look at the OJ trial and say all that's criminal justice in the United States of America. That trial was as UN representative of a criminal trial as I have ever seen and I

hope I hope it won't be repeated never happens in Utah is never happens in your town. But is there a way of telescoping the time of trials even major ones in our state and still ensuring justice. Absolutely and I think it happens now. Everything should be fully aired and argued. But the. Pieces or issues that were raised for the court. In that case were really reaching beyond what what any court should have to. Address. And I think maybe it was a good lesson for all of us in America about what can happen if a system is out of control. So I think the ultimate result of O.J. will be good in that we have a heightened awareness now as people about what will not work in the courts and you can legislate or shorter a method of bringing about shorter throws we are well we are are my reform legislation for for this session really has to do with the appeal process.

After the trials have been completed. Their PR Pro there's there's a direct appeal and then there are further appeals called corpus petitions or other arcane legal names. Basically it's a second third fourth fifth crack at the same old issues and we're trying to tighten that all up and have a system that makes sense to victims and their families and really to people who want to believe that this is this is something that can work and isn't just hopelessly bogged. OK we turn to the phone now our first caller from Washington good evening your question players I know I think I've got a fountain robbery I have over a year ago. And I my question as I was the victim in the beginning and continue to be the victim going to the court system to finally get to a criminal trial. And what I was wondering was why it takes so long and why does it seem like these offenders it doesn't even seem like they do they get postponement just when you think you're going to get that court date and you're going to get some kind of plea out of them. There's

nothing they get more time it's continued it seems like it spends a lot of the court's time and money and whatnot and it can drag out process for those victims. My question is Why or why does it take so long why is the criminal giving more leeway and benefit of the doubt why isn't it stopped and said no you can't switch lawyers. No we're not. Going to continue that now. OK thank you for your question. Yeah it's a great question. It's a really good point that criminal justice and in our country has really become a system seems to be dedicated to protecting the rights ultimately of the accused. Protecting those rights are very important but the criminal justice system really. Is supposed to exist ultimately for the protection really of victims. And. That's one of the reasons we pushed for a dramatic change the amendment to the Utah Constitution for victims rights.

OK. But you're also concerned with the idea of prisoners and this is happening all across the nation and we've seen lots of stories and read lots of accounts of prisoners sitting in their cells not hanging out having anything to do reading law books. And then filing. Cases appeals of their own convictions. There's that that's happened here that's happening here right. Oh we have an outrageous problem in Utah and that way we have prisoners in our system who have filed over 100 separate petitions per year. We have people out there who do this really as a form of entertainment. They don't have to pay to file a petition in court like you or I would or anyone would. And these are largely frivolous claims over 97 percent are ultimately a judged entirely frivolous yet you taught taxpayers are spending over a million dollars a year for my office to just do nothing but respond to the churning of these baseless

petitions these are not. Prisoners who have. Serious rights which may be at risk. You know we take those cases very seriously. And any serious claim is going to be taken seriously by my office. These are ridiculous claims I'll give you a couple of examples we have a prisoner who has filed a petition claiming violation of his constitutional rights because he flooded his cell. By putting jamming up the pipes and then his pinnacle cards got wet and he filed suit saying that because his cards were wet it was a violation of his rights. We have a petition that was filed claiming an entitlement constitutional entitlement to Nike basketball pump shoes as opposed to the nice $50 prison issue converse that they get. I mean this is it would be funny if it weren't so tragic and really nice and really so we all laugh because we don't know what else to do better. It's so costly and ultimately it's a whole mockery of the of the more

easily you have to when you see something like that coming from the Barisan pinnacle Kurd's wet suit this day. Violation of civil rights. Why don't you just throw in where you have to do that all we absolutely have to respond we have to go through all the hoops that the court sets out. The inmate does not have to pay any costs even after it's a judged frivolous now. This is my third major piece of your former guard that we're proposing for the legislature and that is it basically has five points First the prison inmate has to pay some fee. Even if it's just a tiny portion of their account at the prison even if it's $5 you know something to cost that inmate Michael real we would like the number of frivolous petitions filed by an inmate to be considered in parole decisions. We would like the inmate to have to pay a share of our attorney's fees for having to defend against repetitive frivolous suits. This isn't the one or two cases a year. This is the dozens and dozens of repetitive baseless claims that we're having to

go through these who do partners lose their constitutional rights when they're behind bars. I mean they still have the right to do that. They absolutely have their constitutional rights intact. That's what the the man was all about to make sure that some served even though there were and they were not present. But this these revelers these endless petitions are really about the about minutiae that you or I wouldn't consider preparing court petition for but again they're there and there seems to be no this incentive for them practice my proposed law to build in a number of you know fairly strong disincentives to this kind of thing and hopefully we'll be able to save the taxpayers a million dollars or so a year here well worth it. Let's turn to the phone. Good evening this call from Salt Like your question place. Hello hello. Yeah go ahead. Yes I was just wondering why Yeah. That's great I would like to thank you. Into DUIs when they they're not even considered

as a maturity as a dancer considered to the amount of drive by shootings we have. And you might have a clever it's complex it's fun personal property that we have. Well you're saying that is more important. I think color is that which is and I'm saying that the personal infliction of my property or anybody else's property. The graffiti and everything else and the drive by shootings are daft. You know the killings of children are as important or more important. Yeah I don't under stand why we don't have the protection in our communities that we have on our highways in the middle of the night. OK I think we get it as an either or thing I think it is. Oh I understand the question very well. People are terrified of what's happening with gang violence. We absolutely need stronger

prevention and punishment programs we need to be tough on offenders. That's why we have the new serious offender law for for for offenders 16 years old which I support. We need to get tougher and tougher neighborhoods need to have a working relationship with local law enforcement community policing real punishment for graffiti programs in the schools partners with law enforcement we're working hard on all of that. The gang problem is going to get away from us if we don't get serious about it in this color. I think expresses an anguish we all fail in that as we have young children who are being victimized and frighteningly abandoned drive by shootings and just like carelessness that. We didn't even want to imagine could happen in our state 10 years yelling it's here. The judge Valdez told us that sitting in that chair last week that that it could get outta hand.

But he thinks there are some things that could be done. Is there more needed as far as your office is concerned as far as legislation is concerned. There's a lot more that needs to be done in communities taking responsibility for for a maiming fall a meaningful preventative effort you know gang behavior starts these kids are in grade school. And it seems like a lot of our efforts which are well-meaning we don't get to these kids until it's too late. You've got to get to these kids by the time they're in the fourth grade. And ultimately what is always needed is we're not doing our job as families. We're not doing our job in taking care of the the level of abuse within families at home young children is outrageous. Course this is my number one priority as Tony general is fighting child abuse domestic abuse violence the violence with the whole fam OK are there. They're so interrelated. In 50 percent of child reported child abuse cases

where there is violence against a child there is violence against the adult in that home. In 50 percent of reported cases of spouse abuse that offender in that home is also physically assaulting the children in the home so this is a problem where violence as a behavior pattern is tolerated. In the home and it's a nightmare of destruction for everyone in that home. But what can you as the attorney general do about it except call attention to it and plead for corrective actions. What can you do. Well I probably spend half my time arguing and publicly talking about what needs to be done in the area of family violence we have my program safe at home. We launched two years ago we're reaching almost 3000 people a month. I hope before I'm done I'll reach every utang. It's a fabulous one hour program that really hits you right here with the realities of family violence and the total devastation to a child

who lives in a violent home. We think it's having enormous changes in the state and have high hopes for it. Ultimately this issue needs to be on the front burner in public education. We as a society need to be talking about why we all buy a wants in our homes. Why are we tolerating it. You cannot have a loving and nurturing family that is enduring and tolerating violence in the home. Those two things cannot happen together. We need to face it as a society and talk about it. Good. Let's turn to the phone call from Sandy. Good evening good evening Midvale I'm sorry I have. That's OK. It's close I'm sorry. What I was actually proposing is I couldn't resist that is one of the forefronts of abuse in the home. But you know a little earlier you were discussing it. Just crimes of criminals all that I was thinking I was hit by a drunk driver and I was and. When I have to go through they should have some type of funds for victims of certain crimes

or whatever. So that people can maybe get their lives back together and get their body back together somehow create a fund through the victims the perpetrators their fines or just take it out of the state fund or something to take care of victims. We only have a couple there is a fund state office of victims reparations. This gentleman if you have not a contact that office please do. And I have also a victims witness coordinator in my office which you can call 1 800 A.G. for info. Sounds like there are some services for you that you you may not have known about so please call us. You're running for re-election next year. I'm running. I'm getting ready. I'm absolutely think this is the most wonderful job and wonderful office in the world and I hope I can do it for another term. Thanks for having been here we appreciate it my pleasure. On last week's program we talked about the status of youth in Utah with juvenile court judge Andrew Valdez. Several of you

called with comments one said I'm one of Judge Valdez's cases and I think he's a great judge he's given me a lot of opportunities to get back into the community and get a job and straighten out my life. Another called from Salt Lake Police Department commending judge Valdez on his work said many of the kids referred to. Have probably been taken in by this caller. He's a Moxie judge he said he's a tough judge that kids don't like going before him because they know that he's no frills and he's going to sense them the way they should be sentenced. Well if you'd like to make a comment about tonight's program please call our viewer hotline. That's 5 8 1. We'd also like to extend an invitation to those of you who watch civic dialogue and other current affairs programming here on a day to consider participating in one of our upcoming focus groups. We hope to gather some of our viewers together listen to their comments about current programming as well as ideas about what we should be doing for you on a day in the future. So if you'd like to be included in a focus group please call our

hotline. That's 5 8 1. Leave your name and phone number. We look forward to hearing from you next week here on civic dialogue an hour long debate between Salt Lake City mayor Dee Dee Cora DNA and challenger rich McCann. That's next week at 9:00. Till then I'm Ted caper. Good night.