Woman; 431; Women and Age, Part 3: Age is Becoming

Why why. Good evening and welcome to woman. Tonight we conclude our series on older women.

With me is Lydia bragger. Lydia is the national media coordinator of the great Panthers. She's also founder of The New York network of the Gray Panthers. Also with me is Marjorie Collins Marjorie is founder and editor of Prime Time magazine. Primetime is a magazine for by and about older women. Also with me is Tish Somers Tish is a freelance agitator. Welcome to all of you that true about you to share your freelance agitator. The older I get the more of an agitator I become. One of the things we haven't done in any of the program so far on older women is to define what's older and we kind of did that on purpose because we didn't know and we didn't we weren't sure we even want to talk about what's older but I'm curious to know why not. We may never know. And so we had to be I guess. I think it's different for every person. And it comes.

How do you face yourself as older. You know that's another interesting question. How and when and why. So we might talk about that. To rule it out in the research we've done it prime time into the root causes of ages and we asked the question When did you first base yourself realistically as an older woman and in America to say I am an older woman is a hard thing for most women but they will sooner or later they have to do it right. I guess so yes I think when women are when people are busy at least I found my own experience I was so busy I didn't even think how old I was and I did many things in my 50s and I look back now on a lot of things but I think and I know I realized I was getting older and when I got my first notice from Social Security saying you are now eligible for Social Security guys about 65 years old and it had never occurred to me before that I was 65 years old and it sounds like an awful old age and now since I've been with great parents as I tell you you know

65. Listen I wish I was 65 again. Oh to be 65 in a busy thing is very important. It's interesting in our small sample of about 50 women in our research that about half of them or more than half said that physical changes had been the reason that they had to face themselves with an as an older woman. And let us for instance give an example. I said Well wrinkles gray hair sagging flesh you name it. And then therefore as their appearance changed attitudes of other people changed toward them such as the attitudes of men who like younger women of sex objects you cease to become a sex object and this is sometimes very hard to take until you get used to it. And so I thought that was interesting that so many of them mentioned that I thought we didn't want to be stepped up to. MARGARET Well that's an ambivalence of course because we were trying to be sex objects. We were sex objects.

And before we even use the word you know. And I thought it was great fun to be liked by men. And if I'd known I was a sex object that concept of the women's movement I would have been humiliated that somebody gave me a good job because they thought I was cute or you know gave me a raise or took me out to dinner because I was you know and that's. It may be humiliating to look back on however you do get conditioned to being more in the company of men than most older women are. And that that's hard to assimilate. You know what I mean. I think older women become older and part of what happens to them in their lives and when they first experience some form of age discrimination or ages and you're not talking physically well that happens too but it it could be different ways of for example a woman in her 20s might experience feel old because she isn't perhaps eligible for some beauty contest and a 30s she might

feel old because she has one not eligible for an apprenticeship program which ends at 31 in her 40s. She may have difficulty if she changes a job in her 50s she may lose her mate and find that she can't easily find another mate. In her 60s she finds it's difficult perhaps because. She just had a has a hard time exist in this thing because she's too young and Social Security and tool for a job in her 70s her doctor that treats her as oh she's not that important right as she was when she was younger and 80s and 90s even more so. But once you get 100 then she has it made. So that's what you have to have one. Yeah we asked the women in our questionnaire if they had experienced ages and remember the medical profession and more than half said they had and one woman was interesting because she was interested. She said she was in her 70s and she said in the last decade when I was in my 60s

doctors took me seriously. But now they just pat me on the head and say What can you expect. You know and this is very telling because as you get older you get more and more of this pushing away by people like medical people. There's a little story about a woman who was 83 years old and went to the doctor and she was having pains in her right leg. The doctor examined our niece and said Well you know you're 83 years old. She says yes but my left leg saying three is old too and I don't have any. It may be a true story because doctors know so little about all people. There are so few medical schools that have courses in gerontology. For one thing the textbooks the medical textbooks they still call all women crocks in the medical textbooks in medical school and I didn't believe that the last of the nurse a friend of mine is a trained nurse and I said the doctors still call women cross and she said yes they have.

How is my old crock of the end of the whole. So I said well if this is what they're taught in medical school you can expect never any respect for old people or any feeling on the stand that novel but I fight doctors I don't let them get away with these things that you broke your shoulder. Yes I broke my shoulder last year and I had all of the treatments and went along with getting it better and I took Well the exercise and so when the doctor finally discharged me he said the immobility hadn't come completely back in my shoulder and I wasn't satisfied with it he said well you know if I were your age and I had my shoulder and I was in good condition if you are the very thing that I said maybe you would but I'm not thankful and that's not going to stay like this I'm going to get a better. So I'm still exercising and I've made up my mind that if I get through that show that's going to be just as good as the other one and it won't be so. And it's possible they didn't think it was possible to say that. One of the things that makes it hard in our society to get older is the fact that we are never conditioned to

get older. I remember a very funny thing. Old age was never discussed in my home but I remember after I left home and I had a broken love affair or something and I cried a lot and I look in the mirror and I'd say this one. When I was in your early 20s you know I would say oh I look Rocky and I couldn't think of any age beyond 40. You know I had great as in grandmother's things but not for me you know. And so a lot has to be done to educate people in the life cycle both in schools and in young adults seem to be the worst day just I mean that's for ages and seems to appear first because a young child usually takes older people for a one to one basis they like them or they don't like them depending on the person's attitude toward them or their relationship. But when they get to school and when they get out in the world they become sort of

they just tore a whole group of people older people. So they're picking it up. They're picking it up from the culture and their specialties of youth culture has developed it makes it even more so for kids like you know what are some very practical things that you can do to to stop this. Well the media for one thing I think perpetuates the image of older people as being decrepit and as being ill all the time and stupid sexless senseless you name it. Just everything you see old people depicted as in. Situation comedies especially you see old people projected as being just useless if they were in dramatic series. If there's all of if there are people there many times of not. But if there are evil people there they're shown as being sort of useless and they don't make too much contribution to society in the family there in the way they're interfering and the

media. Portrayal is better now than last year where seeing is a positive image of all the people you it when point had a little altar cation with CBS in your position as you know. National Media Watch Coordinator for great vendors and in particular you were upset with the Carol Burnett just right. That's right and we were able to make some changes in the Broadcasting Co because of something we had seen happen to be watching that program and Media Watch committee consists of seven people. Now there are people all over the country great fans those watching and dissipating in this program. But at that time they're on the seven of us. Because television is the reaches more people than any other medium. It educates more it's a great educator that there is we know that in this age you could just say well yeah well educated one way or the other either the positive or negative. But Carol Burnett was the one thing that it was one night when she always asked

her audience if they have any questions. One of the questions was What are you going to be doing when you're 70. I was 72 That was last year and she assumed this condition of being toothless and decrepit and sought out and she said what I am doing now. And I get so angry. I said you know this is get this stuff. I get angry some people get very hurt and very depressed some people get very depressed when they see these things and they think yes this is a way I am. But we wrote a letter to author Taylor who was president of CBS at that time and then a week and a HOF we got a call from the station asking us to come in and talk with the vice president on program practices. Liz Thompson often at that time was a great guy and was just very sympathetic toward us because of that talk that we had with Tom. We had the opportunity to go to Washington make a presentation to the National Association of Broadcasters. And I made the present as three women when we went on the train we were armed with plaque gods and

death tapes and all kinds of visual things that we needed for our presentation or went into this room around the table 25 men two women secretaries. So before I even started what I had to say I said if I were ever here for women believe me I'm going to tell. You all of these men executives of the networks and two women just cannot separate it making the coffee and serving things well anyway as a result of that present a nation there was a change made in the broadcasting cold. The word age was inserted where the paragraph said there should be sensitivity in programming of race color creed sex but age I hadn't been there before so it's there now. And then we're also we also have the opportunity to conduct a workshop with some of the CBS personnel so we did a few little things and we see some positive images of older people and they told us they told us the network people told us that we were partly responsible for that so I hope with soul and I feel that.

If them fantasies should come true and other people in television network should be interested in workshops are you available if that. Is what you said. If some fantasy should come true and other people in other television networks are interested in your workshops are you available. Definitely. We have. A lot to offer. And we'd like to wrap we like to talk when we don't feel that these things are deliberate. We feel people are not aware of what's happening and we like to be able to present our point of view and talk with them and share ideas. This is what we want to do. And I very much do this at any time. Let me alone. The older persons are sex symbols in the same way that women have been sex symbols and therefore media picks that up media reflects the rest of society. So that for example in the commercials we see older what are they doing to people generally. They're pushing the remedies for the you know months whether it's hemorrhoids or insomnia or constipation and

things like that you constantly get this reinforcement the idea of equals. And I think that as more and more older persons speak out positively need something to look forward to and not something to be afraid o. We can make the same kind of changes that women made in terms of this kind of symbolism. What are some other things on television you do like when they're in your book which marry Hoppen but there was a special dick then that did a special not too long ago and there was a skit there with Carol Burnett. And it was it was just horrendous. There was an article written about one of the editors a TV guide and the other in a paragraph he'd mention this show of Dick Van Dyke's. And he said it was a travesty on the elderly and elderly in this and he said two great clowns who had given their heads and they were shown to be empty and I thought that was great so we wrote to him and told him that we were

glad we had a friend at court some support there. But this is really what happens to other people picking this up. Besides the old people this this was a younger man that wrote this I was going to ask you what you thought of Mary Hartman's grandfather. Oh I think it's you know I think if anybody has to do that to expose themselves to get attention that's pretty sad and I think that he is you know there he is the older person the oldest person in this room. Cause I'd like to be a Brit speaking up for middle aged people because they are also made fun of especially women and I'm thinking of one particular commercial and you probably have seen and that is when the woman is saying 20 years American Oh I had it was like a wipe out the oven you know and she's silly. Stupid and very really comic relief but it's not funny for us because these are the people who ought to be you know growing as people and not becoming foolish. So I think that you start around 45 to have to fight these things in life

and that we need help from the media rather than perpetuating the difficult that the results of the difficulties are you know and I think Lydia's example of you know writing the letter and getting a response I think people underestimate the power of what letters would do. Yes yes. That that thing it was good. Now I'm wondering about that. COLBERT You mention that none of the national broadcasters would be as hard to enforce as the age discrimination you know that in the law it's now known that it's so hard to influence. Well that's depends on I think us whether it's whether it's enforced or not it's not easy to enforce anything if anybody wants to get away with not using it. But if you have a tool you have a child you've got it we've got the layer and we can say we don't pick out isolated instances when you know it's it has to be a pattern of things and all you have to say is that says I'm not called with this you can't do this. All right maybe they'll say well we won't.

We'll change this and they change a few things to pacify you but you have to pick after them and after them the pressure his persistence is going to a slightly different tact here whether it was a formal consciousness raising group or discussion groups but you've all participated in discussions about older women. Let's talk about that a little bit. And what are some of the things that are discussed do you think consciousness raising is important or at least communication. But I saw it when it was at its height as one of the most important things that ever happened to women. Especially older when they are in there in the beginning they didn't join very many groups because they were so isolated they were so surrounded by young women who were discussing daycare or abortion or such things as that. But they all know they supported those things were a concern with what they were doing the rest of their life. Maybe you're with marriage you're with I mean the late

marriage with children leaving home how to make a living for the rest of your life. So they found this is in New York I really don't know what the process was in other places. It's by Madge and similar. They started getting their own consciousness raising groups where they did bring up these issues such as. Relationship so that our children will maybe looking back on their childhood so that they could understand why they were like they were. Now today finding out that other women had parallel experiences that's the great thing about consciousness reading and I think that that's the key. So you know whether it's a second the same pattern that younger women went through in consciousness raising groups or not it's getting together recognizing common experience recognizing that you're not alone that getting over some of the guilt feelings one has of having somehow failed if the say the marriage goes goes or whatever. Recognizing that. Some of the many negative messages that they're

receiving that those are not their fault but rather it's society's fault so that they begin to begin then to move positively to change some of those things. And then with a better healthier self image. The potential for changes is much greater. Well I think the one thing that everyone really wants to hear because we hear so much negative is what's good about getting old what's good about all of this great deal is going to vote. You know you hear so much about the problems this is at the problems of aging. This is time and time again people talk about this. But there's so many good things about getting old and I know with workshops I've used I said What do you think about when you see old old age and every time it's a death dying retirement set and this illness and one workshop I had not too long ago I said Now what do you think about when you hear the word young. Well everything was positive. You know I like to dance I like to walk. I like to ski. I like to do to play tennis I like to do all these things.

So I've put these things on newsprint and brought them back the next week because I had taken this. Particular workshop and take a look at these answers that you gave one. I said when you think about that when you say the word young and what does thing share with you its get ception is maybe skiing or something that you couldn't have answered when you say old old people can do these things and this this goes along with age as well as as you so that it was a real eye opener from a newspaper so then I said let's start all over again. Now positive things when when you think of old. All right I have more freedom I have and the responsibilities I used to have. I can speak out and say the things I want to say and that appeals to me. Yeah I haven't got anything to lose I mean I guess I can just tell them you can't say everything want television but you can go ahead. So you know so that all of these things that you can do that when you're low that you can't do when you're when you're when you're under pressure

you have to earn a living. You have a job and you have to support a family. You have to be careful you have to wear your words many times. But when you get old and I hope the middle aged people will make this but also will throw them and I think this is what I'd like to believe were made on it. Oh I'm sorry I'm old. We're in your adolescence and you know I mean I'm sixty two I'm sixty five and in March I get I got got notice already about the sofa. Oh did you really. Yeah I've already find out what little I can get. What about there's another thing that people don't seem to talk about when it when it comes to older people and that sex and especially older women. I mean there's something awful about a woman alone without a partner and. Just no one acknowledges that. But she may have some sexual needs. That was one of the things that the women and in this kind of distance rating group never wanted to talk about. People would bring it up. We tried to pick our subjects by consensus

you know. And harder to agree I always believe we got our subjects that way. But and somebody would say sexuality and everybody said no you know and so we never did discuss that. What I've done now I've now people are discussing it a great deal more and I think older women ought to get vibrators or something. Well I think it's a bit of fear and I think that these are good. We need options that's for sure are a fact of the matter is that if we don't have partners we're going to find to recognize that we're still sexual beings. The whole question of touching this very point many room and there's the grown mists the you get affection and the physical aspect and affection even apart from. But everyone needs to snuggle that out generic Calderon says we have an envoy on a need for a warm intimacy and that contact with another human being that never diminishes in intensity as long as we live.

You see we always need that but I don't know why we have a lecture on Sex After 60 I do and some of the college years when young people and they're amazed you know that old people still have these feelings. I have a segment of the film that was done at another network that I take with me is called Sex After 60 I ring a poet and I don't you know not but she produced it. And I use that as a as a springboard to. But the whole thing and I'm open to questions Frank about the questions you get because there's no information else you know. Well there's a lot of research been done. There's a lot of research been done now. Finding that older people still desire sex and still are capable of having sex and performing. Many men become impotent because it's psychologically. They think that after a certain age they're not so that they are going to lose that both they and of this is this is all it's not even the psychological in many many instances. And women I think they know pretty much that they still are able to perform but it's difficult to get on as you

say when they get older and say what we've been brought up to think well you can't approach and that you know I don't feel that way anymore if I like someone I let them know about it. But and when I speak and articulate this way I have many people come up and one has been told of people that come up to me in this and I feel this way that I didn't think I was opposed to women especially there are three that think that it was supposed to feel absolutely right but you know all these myths that they have to overcome. It's no longer in the culture like like me me and the older women don't aren't sexy after men applause. Or they lose their sexuality at the minute because I think that's still a very common or the feeling that one's ugly that's And then another oh never. Yes you love one's body yeah. The feeling that one in one is ugly and not accepting or being accepted and every age in one's life has been beautiful spring point with anything happening I mean

there's so many organizations No I don't mean to imply there are hundreds but there are certainly many more than there ever have been. But I would say there are many groups but not so many organizations with a many autonomous. I mean they're great dancers doing something to become sexy. What a great path that we can testify to the fact some of us older women younger Brown have relationships very good relationships that it isn't because of the young man it's trying to find a mother in legend or that the woman has money or position us all that but it's just that we have good vibrations and something to scrape that has been testified to that so that this is what we're out of time. I just want to sort of you know one strong message from each of you before before we close it right. And.

Thank you. It's been a real pleasure. We'll take to the streets. And good night. Me.

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