Woman; 101; Our Bodies Ourselves

Oh. I didn't break with welcome to woman this program marks the beginning of a brand new season of woman a season of exploring new ideas and questioning interesting people ideas like divorce insurance with Diana do brought men's liberation with Lauren Farrow.

We will hear opposing views them equal rights amendment. We will discuss pre-menstrual tension and oppression on one show and ask why some women are dissatisfied with their gynecologist on another. These are just a few of the topics we will cover in the 30 weeks. This book Our Bodies Ourselves. Written by the 12 members of the Boston Women's Health Book collective plays an important part in tonight's program. Our guest this evening I willingly Diskin and Judy North India both are members of the Boston collective. Welcome to woman wheel mentality that you're here. Can you give us a little background on the Boston Women's Health Collective. Sure. We grew out of a conference a women's liberation conference in Boston in May 70. And there was a workshop called Women in their bodies and people discussed about themselves and about their bodies experiences they had with doctors good ones and bad ones mostly frustrating ones. And we found that we just wanted

to keep meeting so after the conference was over we met at one of our houses and kind of rotated from house. Every week we met at a different person's house. And very soon we made up a list of topics that we thought were particularly pertinent to women like sexuality anatomy birth control abortion a medical institution deciding whether to have children. All kinds of things like that. And began writing each of us collectively chose a topic and would write about it. And then the thing that was most interesting was we didn't start out to write a book. We started out to talk about ourselves and learn about our medical needs and what we found was we didn't have the correct tools to evaluate medical health care because we didn't know enough about it. So the first purpose was to get some good information and we researched medical texts and read journals and read all kinds of things available. But the other purpose was to let women talk about their feelings and about how they

felt about these experiences of being a woman. And I just want to add that it wasn't so much a purpose at the time it was discovery that was made in the process of getting together that we as women have important information about ourselves that we know a lot already that we can share with one another that we should be sharing it with our doctors and start to make our healthcare more of a shared enterprise to participate more essentially. Right what we found was that women could become experts on themselves and then take that kind of expertise and shared with the kind of expertise a doctor has. And that way we really have a participating health picture. We thought there was a much healthier much more active kind of of health. The first thing you discovered about yourself that you had no. There were a number of aha experiences a lot of them had to do with sexuality and masturbation.

I mean you know people would tell incredible stories about how doctors would say women can't masturbate. You know they don't have the anatomy that kind of you know just really starting from very basics and learning about female sexuality and learning how to that women were had feelings had had aggressive sexual feelings had initiating sexual feelings and that that was OK. That was just part of being a person. Another thing was the discovery that many other women had similar thoughts feelings fantasies that I had that I wasn't such a crazy different person. And to begin to share and communicate this with him was very important. I think it's also important to add that in the beginning the women who got together wanted to compile a doctor's list and the discovering that they didn't have the information with which to evaluate doctors was quite you know quite a blow and all of the sudden you look around realize you can't tell if your doctor is good or not because you don't know what your health care needs are. And. It's something

that's appalling in some ways we look around us and there's all this technology and all this information and yet we have no information about our bodies. And this goes you know it goes for men as well as women I think. At what point did you decide to write the book. Well actually we started writing the papers and the papers were a course and we titled it a course for women formed by women. And after about a year the course was ready to be given and we gave it to a group of women of about 100 women and it was very exciting because that the whole process that we had gone through was exact citing as the information that we found out. You know the researching during the week the coming back and saying look what I found. You know look at this piece of information isn't this interesting. And everybody getting very excited about it and saying well I have an experience with that. And my cousin in my third you know uncle told me this about it. And it just really expanded you know and people just added experiences like that.

Addition to the excitement there was a lot of frustration and some anger and doing the research and we came to realize that the medical profession and medical institutions are largely focused on curing diseases rather than preventing illnesses and preventive medicine which is I think beginning to come more into focus is really important nutrition for example good nutrition may be one of the most important preventive medicines we antiscience that prevented us medicine in our book you know we talk about pap smears and how every woman should have a pap smear every year. And and you know we talk about breast cancer and what an easy thing that is to spot and to cure when it's spotted early and to give once a breast exams and what a difficult thing it is to cure if not caught early and women die unnecessarily. Right right and about cervical cancer and before we get too heavily into into the book talk about some of the women in the collective I mean what are they like black

and white older. Well in our introduction we say that you know mostly where white middle class educated women and most of us are married some are not. You're not there. Well no some of us have children in fact we figured out that we have 13 children among the 12 of us. That's not two point five. No I guess what else about us. We're really ordinary women and we're very special women like you know all of us are and that's one of the discoveries we made that women can get together and do something that they before hand want so sure that they could do you know a project that's worthwhile that gives us a lot of growing and that's a contribution really. I think it's important that there are women in this group have to really like each other it's been together almost four years and that's quite a long time for any women's group. And the fact that we all like each other very much on want to be

together outside of work is important and it's kept us together. Now in addition to our concern for health care and health education and wanting to work on projects to further women's self-knowledge this is now the education. Yeah. Let's let's talk a little bit now about the book. And preventive health care for women. Well we talked a little bit about that about how we emphasize pap smears and we talk about cervical cancer and we talk about breast cancer you talk about well maybe to get into more details about cervical cancer for instance if caught early is 100 percent treatable practically and the incidences of failure to cure cancer when it's caught early in the cervix is very rare with breast cancer. It's just one thing that's astounded me is the rapid rapid rate of spread and test assists takes place very very rapidly in a woman could find herself in trouble

skipping want to two months of checking her breasts over and should be done every single month. And you know usually at the same time it's easy to remember if it's right after your periods over or something like that and that it spread so rapidly that it's unclear. Very important thing that would be done regularly and. From there even one woman discovers she may have some sort of law that there are a lot of options and choices and she should become aware of the paths available to her before she jumps into any one decision. You also emphasize nutrition in the book. Can you go into some detail about that part the best way to do it is to speak from my personal experience and that's that. I didn't pay much attention to what I ate until a few years ago and I started to do some reading almost by accident and I experimented with not having lots of sugar not drinking too much coffee. In

fact I actually cut some things out for a while just to see what would happen. And I discovered the caffeine in particular had an incredible effect on me. Two or three cups of coffee and I would be racing and sometimes I wouldn't realize the reason I was nervous or tense or speeding inside was that I'd had two or three cups of coffee and. The same thing was true for sugar a lot of sugar at any one point would make me feel good for a few minutes and give me some energy and then I feel very sluggish fatigued sometimes depressed. And. After doing some reading I realized that any large intake of sugar is followed by low blood sugar level. It's a little bit more complex I would want to get into it now but it's basically sounds contradictory if you take in sugar you're going to end up with a low blood sugar level but that's what happens if you go to a doctor. No I didn't go to the doctor it wasn't that's you know remarkable a symptom and it wasn't upsetting me that much but the contrast how I felt after I started being more careful and if I

had some sugar foods I tended to have some protein foods with with the sugar food so that would be absorbed more slowly into my system. I would just pay more attention to what I was eating and and. You know when I was eating it I would need a lot right before I went to sleep just because my sleep would be less stressful and I ended up feeling a lot better. And I have much more energy for all the things I want to do. You in fact wrote some of that chapter did you write the whole chapter. Most of it but a lot of women helped me I had a nutritionist read it and he's been very helpful. I disagree with a lot of things that he's said and done but I respect a lot of what he says. I think it's important to say right now that much of the book was written by other women not just the 12 of us. There's a whole chapter written by a group of gay women in the Cambridge area. Many women added their experiences the thoughts their feelings.

There is a dissenting men a past chapter and it's really just the beginning and we would like to expand it in and you know make it a lot more than a beginning but it was done by one of the mothers of the women in the group. She and her friends got together and wrote about their experiences and that's one of the chapters that I'm particularly you know interested in and fond of and as I say it really is just a beginning. But you know we don't talk very much about aging in the society. And I think it's a subject that women and young women increasingly are becoming more interested in. And. You know one of the things that's so sad is that we do equate the culture equates sexuality and desirability with our reproductive organs. And during menopause which is a time when the reproductive organs cease to function we begin to think of ourselves not as real women not as for women and certainly not as desirable. And you know in talking to women who have some perspective and

who have had some preparation for us you know we begin to find out that first of all you know as far as sexuality goes that their own feelings about it haven't changed. In fact some of them feel much better about themselves and they don't have to worry about kids and about birth control and that you know it certainly has nothing physically to do with whether you can enjoy sex and feel good about yourself. Problem is that if you define your sexuality in terms of your reproductive organs and suddenly they're not functioning you don't see yourself as as a sexual being any longer. Right. And it's these attitudes that are feeding into the depressing frightful fear feelings about going into menopause. And there are some physical symptoms too and menopause is a time that there are physical symptoms happening in the body. You know the cessation of obviously means that the level of estrogen that your body's been accustomed to is stopping. And so other things happen you know the symptoms of hot flashes are sweating a feeling very irritable and sexually There is a difference too sometimes the

lubrication and vagina stops. And you know you need things I mean that's kind of a mechanical. Obstacle. And you know some good jelly like a W just lubricant jelly will make things fine. But somebody who thinks of themselves as MY GOD WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME WHAT HAPPENED. You know I'm not I no longer can function sexually. That's really you know that can really be very destructive. And that whole experience of MY GOD WHAT'S GOING ON happens with the hot flashes with the depressions with all kinds of symptoms when a woman doesn't understand it's its menopause time and there are things happening or physical changes hormonal changes and that there's nothing wrong with me. It's all perfectly natural. It's the fear and anxiety and the ignorance about what's going on that's creating half the trouble right and they really assess abates the kind of physical symptoms. I'm not always but a good deal of the time and you know if we had a lot more talking and more accepting and more knowledge about menopause I think would be a lot easier and would be a much more fruitful time.

But I think I think the chapter on menopause this marvelous Well it's really only a beginning you know and really love to see a group of older and younger women get together and do a whole book about it. He needs attention badly. Will you expand it when you revise the book. Yes and what's one of the things too at the end of the book that I'm interested in this is your section on women in health care. My first question is why just women. I mean there are you know both men and women complain about our health care system. Well one of the things is what we've said is we have on the cover that this is a book by and for women it's also a book for men and we want men to read it and we want them to know how we feel and as far as the medical part goes it's really a book for patients. But in the women in medical health care system what we talk about is that women go to see a doctor 25 percent more than men do if you count visits with children it's 100 percent more they if they're admitted to mental hospitals more often they take 50 percent more drugs.

Exactly more pursuit there to get there. Seventy five percent of the health care for us. And yet a very few percent. What percentage of your seven percent of the doctors and 3 percent of the switches for light which is kind of incredible I mean as far as their new numerical numbers go that they're far superior to you know men in the field. And yet as far as the power base goes they have virtually no power and they're there in in in mostly menial jobs. I must say that's changing there are more women doctors view. They're still not that many women going into obstetrics and gynecology. It's not a field it's welcoming women and women difficult time sometimes because of the attitudes they're facing. One of the most upsetting things for me was to read some of the obit textbooks which are presented to medical school. Students and to read what was in them one quote you have the core of the female personality consists of passivity masochism and I don't want to

cynicism. And that was in a textbook from 1971. And there's a lot of stuff in the textbooks about women wanting their doctors to be in the image of God or who want to talk to them and have him take care of everything. So of course it's a little bit our fault right. I mean I'm sure that their attitudes that they have have a lot to do with the whole society's teachings. That it's sure we play into it but that the fact that they're still in the textbooks and all the stuff is still written down is pretty upsetting. Right. Because there's enough indication and enough observation. And the women are really different and women have very similar traits to men sometimes or their kinds of roles that we can share and personalities. And it's a very self-fulfilling prophecy you know the doctor says all this woman needs me to take care of her so I'll take care of her and then the woman says well he's saying me I guess that's his role. So you know he says you know if you offer some practical advice you know.

You know what can a woman do. Well the first thing is to start taking some responsibility for her own health. That is her own body and getting to know it so that she can share with her doctor so that she has a list of questions and says you know this is what I feel is happening and this is how I feel about and what can you tell me about these things. And also to feel the pain or problems she may have a legitimate she's not a hysterical woman because she's having pre menstrual cramps that are unbearable and she wants some help. And if she gets a response like Oh you'll be all right it's all in your head it's just emotional that she persist. And there have been too many instances and we have hundreds of letters have to do with a woman going to her doctor about a certain severe pain and being told it was in her head and given some placebo and ending up with endometriosis or some severe condition which might have all kinds of consequences and that women need to know that their symptoms

are usually valid and that they shouldn't let them BIG know how are they going to know about. Well it well if one doctor you know I mean if they're pretty strong about it and sometimes you know it's good to take a friend if you feel really intimidated. In facing a doctor but if that doctor doesn't give them anything that's satisfactory they should go to another doctor. And that's very hard to do you know because of the kind of the psychological build up. But it's essential. Well some of the things you said though is that we're limited by four or five things and what's available to us in health care. You mentioned geography it's one you know maybe this is a good point to bring in some of the other ways were limited. Well it's true I mean if you're in an urban setting I don't think we're as limited. There are good ones and not just urban settings and we should find them out. I think it's important what Wilma said about having a friend go with you to ask the questions you may forget or lose confidence we're going to live.

I just traps women to fear that their way of going to another doctor. I mean doctors in general front upon that consumer attitude well if I'm not getting what I want here I'll go to another place. I that's what we advocate that's what I mean real consumer that way doctors will change and will be getting more of what we want. I must say the word consumer startled because you really don't think of yourself as a consumer. Exactly we don't think of ourselves as health consumers. But all of us are health consumers and women are the biggest health concern. And therefore you know really we should have the largest interest because we have lost his investment. Just saying but looking at it that way helps to take some of the mystique of the whole experience going to the doctor. It's very special magic person. We look upon him as another individual like a lawyer or an architect who's performing a service. Then we can feel more justified in demanding that we get really good care. Right you know and that's another thing about our book it's really for every woman and man. I mean it's written in clear layman's

language and we did that very deliberately because you know we want people to understand and it's also very accepting you know and it's the kind of book because it has it covers That whole life span from birth to death although you know some areas get more information than others. Still you know with the kind of book that you can pick up at various stages in your life. I mean people have told me that when they brought it home they read it through like a novel because it was so interesting and other people say well you know when I'm pregnant I read this and when I'm not I read that you know it's just like a handbook in many ways the thing that I really like about the book is it is not anti-male. And so much of the stuff coming out of the women's movement is certainly is coming from the women's movement is very hostile towards men. One is an anti-marriage. I don't think so no. I think it presents Oh no it is not anti anything but it's pro-woman and there are alternatives for women like me. What's right for you right now and alternatives for people.

To think that that women have written to us have remarked about that. Now I can read this interesting tales about some of the letters they've been many and they've been terrific. Most of them respond to the health care section some nightmare with a gynecologist or respond to the sexuality section. You know I finally worked out a sexual relationship with my partner my husband we just didn't understand what was going wrong and that's a really heartwarming kind of letter. To people who love each other and because of a lack of knowledge can't work out a sexual problems just you know it's almost a shame that that exists there for medical. Well we haven't heard from many medical people but it's interesting because there's a magazine called medical news world in the world medical world news right. And there was a section I believe it was June about women and women's liberation impact on the medical world and what it first of all it had a book on the cover and it talked about a book inside. And.

Sanford Bowles who is the the he's the head of the Committee on curriculum committee for the American Medical meditation you know the college of accreditation Association of American Medical Colleges. Predicted that our book would be a medical text. And you know that's exactly where what we hope will will happen I mean we really think that medical schools and students need this kind of information needs some good positive information about women you know and some real information about what they feel like and what what they consider their problems on. You know and we also would like to see it go into the schools. You know I mean it's it's just it teaches a lot and in the right way about one's sexuality and one about one's bonding and not enough positive you know loving kind of way. And and it has good information. You know it's one day I would particularly like to encourage that's been my focus in the past couple years with teenagers in the Boston area and the teachers that I've talked to the women by and large have used the book with some men too in their classrooms

have really felt it's been invaluable. And teenagers can use almost every bit of information that's in these books and particularly the section on VD is important for teenagers. Unfortunately we have a situation in this country where we've got a veneer of disease particularly gonorrhea which is an epidemic proportions and yet it's completely curable. And also completely preventable. And one of the upsetting things about the medical profession as it is right now is that it's ignoring totally the fact that VD can be prevented occasionally a doctor will mention Well you can use a condom and that isn't effective in preventing a lot of public service stuff in the media and it's not all about diagnosing and curing and go as soon as you have these symptoms. And I want to beforehand right now there are all kinds of contraceptive creams foams and just those things we buy in a store for birth control. Right. Killed it. But that will also kill the gun a Cox on

his gonorrhea and also prevent syphilis. So here we've got some effective preventives and yet most of the population doesn't know about that. Well decided after the research we found out through Ed Brecker. Oh I must mention his I think he's a fantastic guy he's along with his former wife since deceased now says human sexual response is just kind of a layman's vote for the layman and interpretation of Masters and Johnson and he's working on a book right now called God's little helpers which goes into the history of venereal disease research and talks about how there was a great deal of research earlier in the century in the 20s in the 30s. And he knew about this they knew about a lot of things. And suddenly the knife came down in between one thousand fifty nine hundred seventy two there was almost a moratorium on VD research and it's beginning again. But it's almost a crying shame that during all those years of research it was done was suppressed. And his reasons which I think quite valid

have a lot to do with one morality. Especially with the advent of birth control. So that we could wave the fear of pregnancy in the face of young people you know like don't don't have any sexual relations or you'll get pregnant. They want to use the DID don't have sexual relations because you get VD. And if you introduce a preventive then you take away that barrier. It's no longer a weapon. One quick question because we have less than that. Where do you go from here. Well we don't really know. I mean one of the things we're going to continue to do is immerse ourselves in health education I mean you know we give courses and we talk about the book and and we're going to keep doing that and we have ideas for other kinds of things but they're not going to suggest in their little women can use and I think that's. Get together find support for what you want the changes you want to make in your life and don't try to do too much alone because it's really hard. Yeah. Judy it will let thank you very much for calling We've really enjoyed it. Thank

you and good night for Willie. See you next week.