WWII Internment of Japanese: Roy Ebihara

It's not an all over creation so I look forward to that. Great. That you can't live without a camera. And then Friday OK. Friday morning. John chance a real good guy. Evil is great but I think slowly she said in a she's in her 80s now and so I don't know she's trying to lose it or not but she says she sent it was interesting simply because. World War 2. Broke out at the time she was probably close 13 or is and was in her teens so she's got a lot more recollections of those horrible times on the farm. You know. Her folks were in the farming industry. Yes. It was horrible. Yes. You go on your. First up Les. Just start off with. George's talk of recession it's just you and me talking.

Yes but for the first thing I want you to look right into the camera and say My name is. OK and I was born there. So let's just do that to separate those who do the right and slid right into the camera. My name is Rory Bihar and I was born and I. Call this New Mexico. In January 11 1934. Travel my time looking don't you know look you don't look it's not like you can write totally Sikkim and say Say you're old and Roy but that's in American eyes OK to even say the middle name say however you want to say it which was the proper way. JUSTIN OK. Sorry. What's the point of all this people looking at your face in the

morning. Right. OK ready sure you're ready. If. My name is right you Saku Abby HAR. I was born in Clovis New Mexico on January 11th 1934. OK now now you're talking to me. OK. Describe life in Clovis before Pearl Harbor. Clovis we grew up in Clovis across the railroad track simply because my dad was a master machinist for the Santa Fe Railroad worked in a round house and of course we we lived in a segregated environment and there were seven other Japanese families whose Of course the heads of the house all were machinists as well so we sort of grew up together in a little so called Japanese camp. People used to call it the Jap camp or some terms of that sort. And so we we just were grew up sort of isolated until the outbreak of

World War Two. Were you isolated by your own choices or just a cultural norm. He may be cocky. Well you know Clovis was one of the typical southern town older was in the southwest where it was just that folks didn't want their town integrated so the Hispanic people live very proximal to the railroad station but they were on the other we were on they were on the side of the town we were on the opposite side of the railroad tracks so it was literally prejudiced seeing almost segregation based on that. Tell me about the kids in these pictures I just told you you can rot in the upper corner is my sister for me. And of course opposite that of my sister Kathy and I and I thought I would have Sam soon that we were about seven years old at that point. My my brother Dan is in the lower quadrant.

He's he's four years old and I am in my ask my father on the A to the right of him and the rocking chair his favorite rocking chair day used to tune into the radio shortwave radio which was broadcast from Hawaii you know and he that was his enjoyment Sunday morning around 9:30 a.m. because that's when he found opera Harbor was attacked as well. December 7. So why because why. Yeah Japanese music Japanese knew everything was in Japanese broadcast that emanated from Honolulu. Have you or your life you know how I have not. I would like to you know I've never been to Japan. You have you know a family roots. Yes yes so ha. My my grandfather was in a line a time machine business. He was an industrialist in Tokyo. And my

mother of course came from a sort of a money lending they would probably today call it a banking family. So they were well-to-do. Upper crust. People because you know life there was no unfortunately I think they call it the Jimmy Doolittle's raid on on Tokyo incendiary bomb mean I think wiped out whatever remained a virus a Bihari side of the family. We as there was a build up towards World War 2 as a kid did you sense that sense was gone. It's sort of you know it was back in I would say either late 1940 or early nine hundred forty one. I guess these broadcasts that my father listened to these men would order the men to work with my dad would talk about Japan's

fleets conquering East Asian countries making military headways into China Manchu color choice and they used to call Korean on that so I did hear some things to that effect but not really nothing serious that I thought would be of any consequence to us. What happened immediately after. Well you know we sort of fear the worst. I think I think it was Sunday afternoon when all the families we gathered together all the ones discussed what. Might happen to us and so much discussion was going on that Sunday afternoon. So I. Ate your kid what would I know you know but there was a lot of discussions going on. And indeed on that Monday my dad was told not came home from work they told him that

the chances are they can't protect him or they're afraid that he and his fellow Japanese workers would sabotage the railroad so all of these fears were. Out there and so my dad didn't go to work. We were already told all of our guests are his supervisors from a stand in favor of they said they were in no position to protect him should anybody attack them and they had no doubts about his loyalty. Well. You know. With our family situation goes back to the 20s or early 20s when America was on the throes of AFL nationwide if a strike which you would of I would have heard that it was about half involve 400000 railway workers. And so even back in those days we were in search of scabs. And so that's how my dad ended up from San Francisco on his way back to Japan and he he curtailed his travel back to Japan and took the job as a master machinist

from Santa Fe Vero. So he empties 78 other Japanese men who are skilled some unskilled went over there and they and indeed when the strike occurred they ended up manning the rear of the round house repairing the locomotive. And so when the war ended of course there were animosity who would get the seniority it was these Japanese railway workers who received the seniority and so there was always it was not real bad blood they work together very nicely but it was always in the minds of these men who went on strike that if there were any way. To get back at these 78 men they were going to do so. Is the coming years. You're likely to.

Get where you are. Yeah. Well. What was said on the. Animosity of us and I you know I mean immediately after immediately after it was like Here's all we do know what's going to happen that that did not happen. Well. We were told to stay vigilant in the event that some crazies will come over and. Fire shotguns at us or do something to burn us out so we all the younger ones in the family took turns are the older brothers and sisters took turns being very vigilant during the night and nothing happened for till January the night of January 19th I think 19th or 20th. Well

indeed a vigilante group formed. And they came across the railroad tracks from under the tunnel up the tunnel crossed the railroad tracks with all torches and shotguns. And a State Patrol came to our rescue and so whatever we can carry and throw into a trunk of sedans that they had police vans. They scurry decided there and so we left. It we went to Southwest New Mexico in fort near Fort Stanton Fort Stanton New Mexico and that's where they were already confined. Both German U-boat prisoners they captured off of the Gulf of Mexico near Corpus Christi S. Wallace German merchant marines who were asking for asylum. And when they were chased across the Atlantic Ocean by the British fleet. And they

ended up in Cape Hatteras and ultimately ended up in New Mexico where really nobody wanted them and of course America wanted to. Hide these men for whatever there are approximately 150 of these sailors German sailors. Well they were just literally they can ship them back to Germany and of course once America entered the war. In Europe before they entered a war which upin there were now became sort a prisoner so to speak you know on the whole they were not sailors and they were just merchant marine sailors so you gather that this is you Kerry was just the first step towards putting us into detention. So we are again probably the our family and these other families the Japanese families were probably the first families in the United States held in detention January 20th

1942. So we we were now relocated into an old Civilian Conservation Corps abandon Civilian Conservation Corps camp in the mountains of. Southwest New Mexico. What was life like there. Oh no. As kids we enjoyed it. You know it was communing with nature. Obviously very psychologically devastating for not only my parents by my older brothers and sisters who. Had nothing much to do. When you have nothing much to do you think about. You know. Your life could be should be. But we were Dan allowed to go to our told my older sister Amy who of course when more and more too broke out she was a senior at Clovis high school not having had opportunity graduate. She was now sort of. Become

the head of the family. You know when your parents. Are not considered sense they're considered aliens you know. So anyhow she approached authorities saying to immigration authorities that the Constitution guarantees a right to American citizens of an education. And so all they realize that we can sit around doing anything. Nothing so they approached a local school board honor in Lincoln County. To see if our kids the kids will be accepted into the schools and there were about. 14 of us kids. So we didn't stay we didn't go no more than they transported us for two days and by the third day a vigilante group formed down here in Capitaine New Mexico where the school was located. And they told us to don't even think about stepping out into vans going to buses or whatever. We were rode in told us to get back in never to come back again that was the end of our

education. We had two days of Education Capitaine New Mexico. So the whole rest of the year was spent. My sister trying to teach us. Reading writing and arithmetic. Didn't work out. So. This was your plan. Yes yes and we were aware of that. Yes that's correct of how we stayed there although all of 1942 OK. From January 20th and one thousand forty two to by December 13th of forty two we were there simply because in the 40s these major camps were being developed across the countries of the West as you know. And once my brother who happened to have been caught up in all of this relocation

in Los Angeles ended up in topass Utah which is located near Delta Utah in the suburban desert. And so that's where he was then and we all felt that it would be best that we all be together if that's possible so we were allowed to take a train from Kara's also in New Mexico to Delta Utah to join my brother. Was like live there. It was horrible. I it was it was in the middle of the desert in the middle of the winter it was the winds were it was so cold the winds would blow. 25 30 miles an hour. I mean it was the worst of times the temperature would vary from. Five Below zero to. 30 above. You know the food was horrible. We. ALL know it was it was bad I mean it was hard to stomach most of the food including breakfast. It was the meager things

I there were meals that would be one boiled potato maybe a little a few cabbages boil cabbages and sometimes beef tongue a meat whatever or pieces a ham or something you know. It was they were just not palatable type of food it was just it's what they might feed prisoners of war elsewhere you know in the world. Oh yeah. You know our ass as time went on. Japanese Americans are I think very innovative and things but yeah the they had authorities. I mean those people were put in authoritative positions were told to take care of their youth so they would have you things I remember the summer there were baseball teams and all kinds of activities for kids of varying ages for whatever they wanted. They had adult. Activities and so. I guess people made the best of the situation. A

lot of people were very artsy and so whatever they could scrounge up they did put together a lot of action craft items. A lot of people knew how to do landscaping and were gardeners by trade in California so they applied their skills in building Japanese gardens within these horrible barracks so they could identify where they lived. You know it was it was great and that's what I saw with my own eyes you know. She still plays a little bit. Yes. And yes for he got his start and he's always loved doing that. From your original house you just grab what you could. The rest of us. Well you know that's true and you know we can claim a lot of loss you know because you know these homes that we though we lived in were built by Santa Fe very road it was literally shacks if you if

you can today standers. So whatever we had were of no great value so we never filed claims about our loss of proper furniture. You know things we just were happy to. See that the scenario had changed for the better as time went on. So yes this is a loss for you. You were able to. I don't know what they were all were but I'm sure my mother lost a lot of things that were family family heirlooms perhaps you know but you know we were bent on becoming better Americans as time went on you know we look back and say well what were the consequences I mean what caused all of us to be lost to be hated to be as such so I think people were not willing to accept the cultural differences I'm sure. We didn't assimilate but that wasn't our fault. I think the public at

large would not allow us to assimilate in western culture as badly as we would have wanted to be. So you want to assimilate they want. Yes. In fact way back my older brothers and sisters were in the early thirties into the mid thirties were not allowed to go to a public school. It was only when our by the good graces of an attorney who hired my oldest brother roll call I asked the janitor that he he pushed a school board to allow at least our family to be token the integrated into the public school. Talk about how it was. How did you come. Well you know I my my sister Amy back in nearly 1900 threaten a walkout she said you're violating my rights my civil liberties have been taken away and she was very smart about things and so I don't know for what reason why. Oh back in early 43 1943 there was a questionnaire that

came out about the loyalty of these people so they wanted to test the loyalty of all these in turn ease whether if given an opportunity to fight for the country would they do so would you pledge your loyalty your. Complete loyalty to the United States of America and of course. When you have been rounded up and have had no recourse in the justice of this what are you going to think after all these many months you're stuck in here and you're being asked to pledge your loyalty to America and what is done to you. So there was always these kind of confrontational arguments that went on Of course my brother having been Japan born but came to America as a two year old strongly was more patriotic and said look we need to prove our loyalty to America and so did we young man should be going into the armed forces and go out and fight for this country.

While others will pose and said What for. You know we've been we've been taken. And why should we do such things. And so our lives now were threatened because of our patriotism our family's life was threatened by these hooligans. And so my sister begged that our family be relieved from this. Encampment. And they said it was just time it was just right that these people in Cleveland said we can our comedy so many of these families and. Because of the circumstances our family was now allowed to get out but my sister my dad my brother who were targeted as as being troublemakers in that regard because of their patriotism. I had to leave and they left in about June of 1903 while the war was still raging. What was the first. Well you know I think War Relocation authorities

were in agreement with the California people as long as they were returning to California. You know Chris it is racism that goes way back to the 20s or 19th. And. But the fact is that as long as they can spread them out all over the eastern coast What's a hundred ten hundred twenty thousand people on a great number of people. If you can just move and disperse them they'll disappear from the face of the earth that's what their thinking was so as long as they go back to California they were happy as a lark. And so a song to governments as long as our people are genuinely interested in putting these people off and having them have a new life. They'll be agreeable and it did occur not only here Kalamazoo Michigan Chicago Illinois a lot of places Philadelphia. These people had already been cleared. Yes make sure you're OK. You

seem ok ok. Yeah we have to sign an agreement that we will obey all the rules that were dictated by the relocation authorities. So indeed and we were clear to be good. I was doing a story called The East and everybody else of yours. Yeah and they're just there understand her story and the woman who did the research researched all aspects of the house. One of them was this whole story about the case. She found Western Reserve list. Now that there are several lists there you know enough of it will already be. Yeah yeah. My sister two sisters for me ne me and my brother Hank were involved with that goes way back and I recognized a lot of these names. Many

are deceased of course and of course a great many are left. Once California's doors were open in 1945. Major scooched they just left Cleveland. By the hundreds if not a thousand I don't recall how many people in Cleveland but. So you say they came back. You know that's correct. There are just literally thousands of people resettled in Chicago area Cleveland area and of course better than 60 percent went back to California on the West Coast where they originated from. Hoping that somehow they can. We claim their lives. Well we we wouldn't go back to New Mexico that was the boondocks you know and of course if anybody amongst the Japanese Americans could say that the war too was a blessing in disguise. We will probably

be the exceptional family that says yes indeed. It took us out of a ghetto existence that we wonder even today whether we would have the kind of Education the. Opportunity to be in professions that we would have never had that opportunity. No doubt about that. You have been. Well you said your relatives are mostly in Tokyo. Did you hear about or from friends of yours who were. Relatives or stories about your son. Oh yeah we we known family of friends who had lost their family especially those. Friends that we know in Sacramento after all. When Japanese immigrated to America quite a few emigrated from that area and located in the Sacramento California area. So

many many of these people lost their total families in the devastating atomic bomb. Well. You know I don't think there was any anger. You know it we already had gone through. Fear. Shame whatever went with the relocations so you know. We just. I don't think we really thought about that. I think it was back in the 60s when the Civil Rights Movement started to occur that Dangar started coming out. Amongst Japanese-Americans So it was a long time after. World War Two had ended before people reacted. Is it just me. Or. Yes. Oh well there are there are principled values and which was in call created into us as kids from my parents and then we we do likewise

to our kids. They are gum I mean endure patient endure for good things may come later. Don't bring shame to the family. That's vitally important. Don't bring shame to the family name that was always given to us through our growing formative years of. Our respected elders and it just started don't stand out like a sore thumb. You know of course that was bad because my mother and father thought that your mouth is going to get you in trouble you know I stood out like a sore thumb. I think you heard the term inscrutable Japanese I think that goes with the territory. You know if they're not going to talk you have to figure out what the heck that person is thinking you know something to that fact but yes indeed there are principled values. That we all grew up with. There are about 11 12 of those things that we see much very much

at here to those principles identified principles eagerness and agenda. Oh yes I have Japanese names. Did you. Yes we did I we were going up in a household I mean that's my parents who really did not care to speak English my dad spoke with a broken English so why would he make any effort. My mother literally stayed in the house within the confines of the home so she had no need to learn English. I don't think she spoke very much except words here and there in English you know. But other Nat our communication as long as we lived in the under the same roof we spoke Japanese grocers. Oh well we used to take Mom grocery shopping and she would point things out so she relied on the kids to do all of the conversational things needs soldiers.

Probably many years was something that nobody. Else you know. When you talk about your childhood things you have to talk about things in the perspective as you see it with as you have seen with your own eyes in there. But as one gets older you realize. What's happened. You know. What. Why did. The government and authorities do what they did to us. You know. It was literally America's Holocaust denial in a way. So you began to question things but to tell people that they won't question the government's thing but I would like to relate to them that. Without due process of the law. The government violated the First Amendment the Fifth Amendment. And

putting us into relocation camps which I call concentration camps but. I think yes I would like to have people sort of. Ask me questions which will criticize the government actions back in those days. I just talk about my childhood and what's happened but I wonder if maybe I need to talk about things in more in depth. But the executive order and all these things you know. What I what others would answer that would say well listen we were a time of war. It was a legitimate concern. Generally I I would say that. The government and the generals knew that and the people of California the governor Warren included. They just knew that. Without a military necessity the US and that military necessity they could

not move American citizens from anywhere. So they had to find a reason. That says OK this is a national security issue. You have a president with executive powers had to put it into the hands of the military to run everything. You couldn't let civilian authorities. Promulgated any kind of rules or you know restrictions. So everybody bought into this as a military necessity when the proof or the putting with there were unknown military necessities. Authorities and education authorities too who knew about war and everything else. Stanford University University California even stated emphatically that there was absolutely no need to relocate these people. You know.

But they. Know they were already told all of these things but but the pressure came from small groups you know the California growers association and Woody Chamber of Commerce's in L.A. and all these there were small pockets of people voice was very strong and in who really wanted to get rid of the Japanese population that was their motive it was nothing to do with their be Samba tours or potential saboteurs or anything of that sort they knew better NAB. But it was an opportunity to get rid of these people off the fertile lands of California. Well you know I briefly understood that there were upwards of 400. People of Muslim Muslim Arab American descents there were rounded up rather quickly were they when I don't know but it was a painful reminder of what happened to our friends and relatives. When chloral hydrate was attack.

They swooped down within a week matter week they swooped down in and took out 4000 The people who were involved in the Japanese newspaper or Japanese language newspapers a California minister especially Buddhist priests and. And people were who were high up and in. City government in that they just rounding up and put on somewhere nobody ever knew about. That's exactly what happened after 9/11. So it's a painful reminder. That you know. Why why would history repeat itself when. Cousin Joe or for in his pledge in 1976 says. I will pledge that this will never occur to American citizens again. And here we are. 9/11. We're doing the same blasted thing again almost almost.

Around reparations ologies. Well you know I fell for it. The claimant. I mean the national Japanese-American citizens League which is similar to the n double ACP. I've been a member of that. My brother in law Hank Tanaka was a vocal person for that. That according to the first amendment the constitution you know you could. Ask for redress you know that petition for redress when you felt that you were wrongly incarcerated and that and that's where we took that approach. And under Jimmy Carter's administration this. Commission was established. War Relocation. Commission and hearings went on and and so we became part of that do we really. My brother in law and I approached umpteen congressmen in Ohio. To fight for this redress. And we we won.

Is it you know money was not the issue but in any cases of petitioning for redress. Money is always involved. So when you asked for $20000. Hack people who were wrongfully imprisoned in the penitentiaries. Get much more get much more money than that for goodness sake. But it was the right thing to do. And small monetary redress. Hopefully that. People will be satisfied with that. Nothing there that would compare to the loss of property and businesses and so on. You know. And I think that you know. I don't know not a whole heck of a lot. There. Dave Sure. Yeah. OK. Back in the 50s and 60s and you know my older brothers and sisters all there's a

relative my share go. You know they. They did things together socialize together you know. But the great numbers left us. By the time the 60s rolled around they were gone they went back to California. How lot unfaired I have no idea. You know what you want you to show us he's going to he's going to get you have these like. Call me Bob. And here's my sister Amy have been here. She lived on West hundred fifty street we lived on West 53rd Street with a hung Garion family. My dad CA lived on the long reign Avenue work for the Aspen basket company came out released him with all his skill educated in tool and die

making a machinist. He ended up making Peck baskets in Cork baskets at a. Place in west side of Cleveland you know and so interesting. So these listing goes way back to the early times one day these people were just released. And resettled into Cleveland. Just by the mere addresses you know. But can you imagine and the numbers who came out in droves just to get the heck out of that. Those concentration camps. Topaz Throughout the most number into Cleveland because as you probably read that little thing that they said well look at this family. They're doing quite well that was enough to convince many many to resettle into the Cleveland area because our family's successful resettlements so to speak and very interesting to me. When we first came to Cleveland we were told not to speak to another. Japanese family that really settled into

Cleveland area. That's a complete violation of the Constitution as well. That we were not to gather together nor to speak to anybody in public. Simply because the war was raging that they said well you know we we don't know if you conspiring to do some harm to America or something worse below.