NewsNight Minnesota; 6096; Govenor Ventura & K-12 Education: A Newsnight Special; SD-Base

NEWSNIGHT Minnesota is a production of plenty see the station for Minnesota Public Television. This is NEWSNIGHT I'm Little Harben tonight a TV programmers dream we have a popular governor some influential lawmakers and teachers from all over the state taking on a very important issue. Hi I'm Martin Casti from Minnesota Public Radio. We're going to take a good hard look tonight at K through 12 education in Minnesota and we'll do it with the people closest to the topic from the governor right on down to the teachers. It is a special one hour NEWSNIGHT right now. NEWSNIGHT Minnesota is made possible in part with support from the blended Foundation creating a stronger Minnesota by bridging rural and urban communities. McKnight foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life for Minnesota families and by Cargill supporting Minnesota's tradition of community service diversity unit reporting on NEWSNIGHT Minnesota is provided by the J and Rose Phillips Family Foundation promoting good relations among all races and religions.

Hello everyone I'm harbored with Channel 2 News Night Minnesota program and I'm marching past the Capitol reporter for Minnesota Public Radio. We're going to your host tonight for this special program. For the next hour teachers from all over the state are gathered to talk about education for the first half of the program the teachers will be talking with Governor Jesse Ventura later in the program we'll be joined by the speaker of the House Steve Swisscom Senate majority leader Roger Moe and Education Commissioner Christine Jax. It is another in our series of collaboration in the Citizens farm project a public journalism coalition between Katie see a channel to the Minneapolis Star Tribune newspaper and Minnesota Public Radio. Now for the past two hours public school teachers at sites in Minneapolis Duluth and Wyndham have been talking by videophone about the pros and cons of profile of learning which has been the hot topic at the Capitol for the past several weeks. Critics of the profile claim the new standard for graduation is too

bureaucratic. Supporters say it better prepare students for the real world. Tonight we've invited those people working on the front lines to discuss the profile and other educational issues with the governor and our legislative leaders. Lori start event with The Minneapolis Star Tribune is with a group of teachers in the paper's downtown Minneapolis NEWSROOM. NEWSNIGHT Minnesota's greater Minnesota reporter Jim Newman is with a group of teachers in Duluth and NPR's Mark style is with teachers in Windham. So let's get right down to business with the questions are all yours. Governor let's start with the what's of it on everybody's mind right now the profile of learning the House of Representatives last week voted overwhelmingly to. Get rid of it after almost 10 years I think almost two hundred million dollars depending on how you count the money invested in this is it time to just get rid of this whole thing. Well I don't know. I mean I'm not an expert on it but as you said a hundred twenty five million spent by the state itself plus all the money spent by the three hundred forty seven districts and now it's been in will be implemented

for what three months four months and they're just going to toss it out and forget about all that money forget about all the studies that have done I think certainly it can't be all bad and certainly there's things in it that obviously I believe can help children make the adaption of going out into the real world. Naturally if it's too bureaucratic then let's work on getting the bureaucracy out of it. Let's remove some of the paperwork but to simply throw the whole thing out right now without truly giving it a chance to me is a great waste of money time and effort. But if they can shrug it off that easy so be it to him I guess. All right this discussion has already got folks running about Minneapolis we're gonna go over there for a question. Hi Lou. I have with me here Mary Wise family connection. But first I want to report to you and to the governor what we had in our conversation downstairs after about 30 minutes of pretty lively talk about the profiles in there. I asked for a show of hands from the 22 teachers who are here. I said how many of you want the profiles in their name completely scrapped

the Minnesota House approach of house 115 last week 10 of our 20 teachers said that that was what they would prefer to see happen. Eleven said they'd rather have the profiles refined and improved. But nobody in the group we're satisfied with the way they are right now. Here's Mary Weiss. I was one I happen to have been one of the ones who said I'd like to see it wrapped and of that particular name. I started a long time ago with Iris McGinnis when she started talking about assessments packets. So you know what I would like to know from you is how you see the profile. Love learning bringing along all the children. Often time is a veteran teacher. I see some students whom I think would do well with the profile of learning those of the ones that are doing well in a way. My greatest concern is about that number of students that are from diverse populations have a different way of speaking and understanding and learning. How do you see putting lots of money in addition to what's already there into the

profile of learning. And how will it bring along all the children since we have no throwaway children. Right I agree. No I don't think it is. Naturally it can it can be tweaked it can be changed it can. To me it should be adjusted to fit the students better. Remember something I inherited this too. I mean I was not on the ground floor that did the discovery of profiles or learning and came along and pushed it upon the educational system I sat back and was a private citizen less than three months ago four months ago or so. But but my point being is when you break it all down it's going to come down to parents. And parents participation in child's learning. If the parents don't participate the chances of a child being successful no matter what system you're using whether it be profiles the old system any other new system it's going to be the same the chance for failure greatly increases if the parents are not involved. If the parents are involved in their child's learning the chances for success increase that much more greatly. So my emphasis is more on getting parental

involvement in getting class sizes down if if they didn't the profiles the learning they throw it out. Well it to me it's been a big waste of money time and effort them. And I find it hard to believe that every bit of the profile should be tossed and just simply eliminated after only a three month trial. Well Governor you talk often about the need for parents to step in and take responsibility for their children's education and you talk about self-sufficiency and and this often comes up when you talk about education in general. Would you have even started down this path of having the state take. More of an overview of the local decisions that are being taken in schools in the state even be doing this sort of thing. I think that when you look at the current situation our kids are getting lower grades aren't they. They're good they're scoring lower test scores continually on the basic test scores. And that was without profiles wasn't it. Never thought I was before profile everything before now is profiles and it's heading down it's heading down a slippery path right now. The scores seem to be getting worse so something needs

to be done. And I was paying attention like I said the other day to a study that was done in over 100 schools across America both urban schools suburban schools rural schools rich schools poor schools and again it came down to parenting. They said that was the key. I head above anything else whatever else was implemented. If the parents are not involved in the children's learning and in school the chances of that child having success diminish greatly. So I think my job as a governor. I can't go out and teach and I'm not going to try to tell teachers how to teach. My job as governor is to motivate parents to get back involved in their child's lives in the children's lives. Quit blaming the schools. Quit blaming the governor. Quit blaming the system and everything else. And to take that personal responsibility for your own children it was not asked you know being with a reform party one might think you would be in favor of it. Get the state off our backs if there's a perception out there that the state is honest to do this and Jessica

might help us out here get the state off our back. But that's not the way you see this. Well not totally. Let me give an example kind of a fun story I had a friend I went to college with got out of college the Navy with he got out of the Navy went to medical school went became a hand surgeon specialist and by the time he finished all that schooling he when he had to go into the real world he told me they didn't teach me anything practical. They didn't teach me how to set up an office. They didn't teach me about the insurance problems you would have as a surgeon. All he was was Surgeon smart. He could operate on anyone's hand but anything else that dealt with the business end of being a doctor. He didn't have a clue. And that's why I don't think you totally throw out the profiles like what the First Lady talked about. You have diverse people out there. How are they going to adapt to the United States if they don't get some type of hands on practical in school.

What do you do with this knowledge you get when you get out into the real world and they have to apply it and the state does that better than local school board. No not necessarily I'm I'm open up to local school boards to do it too. But the locals better get it done then. And right now the test scores seem to be dropping. OK we got Jim Nomen in Duluth Jim what you have for us. Thanks a lot move first of all a thank you to channel 8 for carrying this program in northern Minnesota and now I'd like to turn it over to Joe Moore who teaches at Benfield high school here in West Loop that Inventor I really think you need to look at the statistics because I really think the reading and the math basics test scores have been going up in the last four years that we've been administrating that partly due to I think improved teaching and also once kids know that the stakes are there for teaching for this test. They really go to it and they take the test meaningfully and the scores will reflect that. But my question about the standards has to do with right now. I'm administrating to the ninth graders. Their standard in reading complex information because that's going to

be on their diploma come their graduation year. I want to know if one the standards are going to be around when they graduate because it's going to be scored this week by me. And I want them to know that it's there and to. Have some nervous ninth graders who have not had the benefit of the processes and concepts in the scaffolding of the earlier packages to help them succeed. On this ninth grade test and what's going to happen to them. Where are they going to get the remediation to make sure that they have the tools necessary to pass the high profile. And I agree with you. You know if it was implemented too fast and if the money didn't come along with it to do that then it shouldn't be as far as where will they be. Well I'm sure that if they take the exam this week or whatever it's not going to hurt them for years down the road from now whether it's crap if it indeed is scrapped. I don't know if it's going to be scrap the hollow sense it's going to be scrapped. The Senate hasn't taken it up yet. And when those two get done then eventually they'll meet in conference committee and we see what

happens on a conference committee and then eventually it comes to me. And if they overwhelmingly convinced me to scrap it all I'm I'm not opposed to doing that. But I just the thing that bothers me the most about the whole affair is how much money that has been spent the ten years that have gone into this. Why didn't somebody bring it up sooner. Governor why didn't why I mean it's easy to lump it on to me now. I inherited this probably with less time than the majority of those teachers of knowing about it a lot longer than I have only as it is because when you're running for office you probably had no idea this would come up. This quickly and this. No. Dramatically No. You really didn't there was no indication that in less than three months the entire project would just be scrapped and you know thrown away like that and like I said my biggest concern is the huge waste of money. And why wasn't it brought up along the line before we got to this level. Governor should there be a waiting period of some sort I think your commission of education Christine Jax might have mentioned something to that

effect earlier this evening in our discussions that maybe a moratorium some sort of a cooling off period. I think that would be a terrific idea you have in mind. Well I'm going to I'm going to defer to Christine because that's why I put her in the position of being the head of what we call education children and families now we've switched those names around and we're going to switch it because we believe education should come first in that department. And that's why I brought Christine on board. That's why I've made shunk on board what's the benefit of delaying implementation even though we're already starting to implement Well I think the benefit of delaying it is to back off the fear of it because there seems to be a great fear out there that's being generated over this whole thing. And I think the benefit of delaying it is to allow a second look at the bureaucracy get some of the paperwork out of it make it easier to implement it if there's bad things in there remove them and then keep the good things right. And Christine Jack will be on later in the program let's go to when the man Mark style Mark what you have for you.

Thanks Luke. Might want to say that first of all that when the governor said that teachers should have let the state know earlier that there were problems with the profile there was a murmur of protest in this room in Windham because they felt until the details got down to the local level that they were not aware of how it would impact students. We have a question continuing in that vein from Steve Clawson who teaches in mountain lake a special education teacher. Governor Ventura I know that special ed is dear to your heart and that you have prepared to add 97 million dollars to the budget for special ed this year. My question is in regards to grad standards how they relate to special ed. I try to represent the special ed teachers in Minnesota and in this area. And somehow I get the idea that that might have worked that we already have and I think you might know something I've that worked in my the meetings we have the amount of paperwork already added special ed is ever ramming. And now we've been hearing about additional grandstander paperwork that's going to come upon us and I guess what we want to express our concern about that also. Wonder

if that summit 97 I could get down to the actual schools to get teachers into positions where we don't have to. Increasing number of special ed students is becoming overwhelming as well to the point where some teachers are actually working with kids anymore or just doing paperwork and so my question is hire some of those 97 million gets us actually in the grassroot school districts. Well I hope that it gets there again you know if it's sent down to the different districts. You know there has to be some sort of check so we can know how it gets there because we've had money allocated to lower class sizes for four years now and lo and behold the monies never seem to get there to lower those class sizes down. I'm very well aware of special ed because my daughter's in special ed. I know how much paperwork goes along with it. And part of the problem with special ed is federal. Because the federal government has been mandating in taking care of special ed and it's a huge amount of paperwork that the federal government is doing forcing it on to the special education

system. And I think that that's part of the problem that we've got to work on is getting the federal government to back off on all their red tape and bureaucracy and allow it again to get down to the local school districts and let the local school districts teach them to think what they need to do. Don't you think special ed the funding that goes into it has been a detriment to normal and other education. And I don't believe so because special ed kids are kids too and school is there to prepare children for life. That's what education is about to prepare a child to go out into the world and I mean I don't think special ed is getting any great special deal in the schools I've been there and seen some of the broom Clausewitz that they stick to special ed kids in and call them classrooms. I've sat in them where it's a former clause it and they move things out and pack in five desks and stick five special ed kids in there for their special room for you know special ed so I have a great concern over special ed and I believe

special ed kids unless there's a severe problem should always be mainstream because once they get out of school they're mainstreamed into life aren't they. They got to go out there and compete in the life. And how are they going to do that unless they're put into a regular mainstream situation. All right let's go to Minneapolis Laurence Donovan you have another person with a question or comment. Yes I sure do and I want to report to the governor that when he spoke a few moments ago about apparent involvement we have some spontaneous applause here for his remarks. This is your attendance from museum Magnet School in St. Paul Hyla thank you. I want I want to go. The person from Duluth or Wyndham who said that it is so refreshing to have a governor that is supporting its teachers. It's a very refreshing change from the past years. We appreciate that and I want to tell you Laura that it all beyond the stye don't have all the answers that's why we're having forums like this and that's why we're communicating. I have one question about the lower class size. We hear a lot about from your

administration and that I hope remains a priority and not just a first year budget priority but is a long lasting priority in our state. Question that on came from a kindergarten teacher at our school because I told them to tell me their concerns before I came to this meeting. She would like to know if the 17 to 1 there are 18 to 1 ratio is teacher to student or just other adults to students. Teacher to student. 17 to 1. Teacher actually Ministry of aides you know no I want to and let me explain this if I will for a moment we just had a hearing at the Capitol where I think it was the centennial school district got some grant of money and they implemented a 15 to one. And you should have seen the results we heard from children we heard from parents. We heard from teachers and they said how unbelievable this was not only scholastically to those kids but socially they were growing

socially and scholastically everything involved one little child got up and said you know before I was in a classroom where there were 27 kids and you said I got called on 15 times a week. She said ma like 50 to 1 I'm getting called on 15 times a day. That was the difference. We had a parent stating that she saw four or five youngsters that all grew up in the same neighborhood. When this got shifted to the 15 to one she said not only were the kids growing scholastically but you could see socially how much better they were all getting along and becoming better citizens. And the teacher made the statement that when she had a twenty seven kids in her class she would go home at night and could not sleep because she felt she could not. She wasn't delivering what she should to each one of these kids. She said now at 15 to one she said I sleep real well every night. I know them. The teaching is getting there. Laura in Minneapolis I believe you have a follow up question. Well I actually had a different separate issue but I want to touch on this that Governor you have

talked about Karen's on family involvement in school which I believe is one of the most crucial issues in school reform. And if we don't address this issue we will never succeed with any profile or anything that you want to highlight. That's right but how do we deal with this on a policy level I mean we really can't. But how do we how do you deal with getting the parents back. Is that the question. My view and my belief is first I'm going to lead the way and I'm going to talk about it when I do my state of the state address. It's going to take quite a bit of my time. When I'm when I make that speech to the state of Minnesota also I believe it can be handled much better by going back to neighborhood schools going back I mean when you look today we used to have fifteen hundred I think or something like that very active PTA days. Now since there's no open enrollment no more neighborhood schools. We've got barely 300 active going PTA is going in the state of Minnesota now. And that's how how can you expect a parent to get actively involved in education in

their school if they have to drive 45 minutes across town to get to their child's school and then drive 45 minutes home later. Let's get back to neighborhood schools where the school becomes the focal point of that neighborhood again that not only just for education but the focal point in every part of that neighborhood. That's the way it was in Minneapolis when I grew up. You knew where you lived. I knew the district I lived in. I would go to Cooper grade school I would go to Sanford junior high and I would go to Roosevelt High School. And there was no if fans or buts about it. Can someone be forgiven for understanding that as an argument for local control and not for state. Meddling in school I recall and I'm very much for local control and the profile of learning doesn't contradict that. It probably does a little but the point is if it does then we need to look at making the ways to where it doesn't to where it can be worked into the local. Allow the locals to administrate it but to simply toss it after 10 years and how many millions of dollars.

If we do do that it just gives me another example of wasteful legislative spending and speaking out should I and the legislature should have thought about it before it got to this level and the amount of money they spent on it. All right the last thing I want to ask if you want to go now. That's true. Yes because they have Presidents Day but it's also. It's only on Saturday or when you've got we've got other we've got Senator mole coming up and Representative swingarm and Christine Jack who can speak the education probably far better than I already talk a lot more but you're going to go over the Rolling Stones and do a proclamation of something that's right. All right well thank you so much anything for him. Thank you Governor. Thank you. The sun the beach the sun the beach the beach.

All right back to the discussion about education at this time we'd like to welcome the speaker of the House Steve swagger. Senate majority leader Roger Moe and Education Commissioner Christine Jackson Christine I do want to start with you. You are the government talking about profiling how do we fix this

thing. Well I think there are a few things we do we have a moratorium on it hitting the transcripts of students because while we're all fighting it out we want to make sure they're not hurt. I mean what do you mean by that. Explain it the explain that you're not being on the transcript. Well it's a high stakes tool. We're saying that students have to accomplish this in order to graduate. And we haven't quite figured out what that this is and accomplish this. There are teachers who are confused as to what's expected of them. We are making some changes likely in the legislature. And I think that the first thing we do is that we make sure that while we're taking with this or overhauling it that this students aren't hurt in the meantime by having something on their transcript. So if they did well they could counted. It if they didn't do well they just. When I don't think it should be I don't think it should be on their transcript at this point I think that the teachers can continue to have it be in a portfolio on the student. The student can keep track of doing it. I mean if you learn you learn you know education is something that the students get to take with them

wherever they go and the courses they're taking the courses will still be on the transcripts and the AVC or day that they get will still be on the transcript. But the one through four or the fourth or one that they get for their particular content standards. I don't think that we should be putting on transcripts until we figure out what's going on. The idea is that this was supposed to be a uniform high stakes tool. And right now it doesn't sound like it's uniform and so it's not uniform. Let's not make it high stakes. There's a moratorium suggestion take the pressure off of teachers and schools as well and it takes pressure off the students who are in class right now but do they still have to do the schools the teachers still have to go through the motions. This is an opportunity to back off a little bit and I think that that could be part of the local control. As you heard the governor wants to move toward local control. And that's where the accountability should be. The local teachers should not be accountable to the state. We shouldn't be writing their curriculum. We should be giving them content

standards which basically set the bar so that all students are heading for the same bar and all teachers are trying to get the students to the same bar. But the individual curriculum should be at the local level and in the local classroom and the person who's supposed to decide whether that's getting done is first the teacher and then the teachers principal and then the elected officials who are on the school board would decide if that's not working right. We can get you in here the lot of your colleagues are saying they don't this is just to do away with it. And does this sound feasible. Well a lot of the colleagues is correct. Ninety two votes in the House floor eight persons being gone could have been 100 votes out of one hundred thirty four. A bipartisan Republican Democrat with substantial number of votes are basically saying this is not necessarily an either or situation either or meaning you can have high standards. You can expect high standards for graduation but you don't have to have the bureaucratic nightmare that has been placed upon

our educators our teachers look administrators and the students of the state. That is what has happened with the with the profiles and you know some of us have tried to address it for a few years but you couldn't go along with the just keep it going list or in terms of a moratorium for a certain period of time here for a month or two or while we're going working with the ninth grade students right now you know that's fine while we're waiting to see what the legislature is going to do. But the law the legislature ought to act. Mr. were you saying a month or two are you saying a couple years. Regardless I think that I agree with Representative that we need to have something right now while the legislative legislature is acting. But I also think that whatever we do we need to slow down and have it not have the transcripts because if we keep the profile the way it is we have too many problems out there that have to be fixed and I don't want students punished and if we start with something else like a house file 15 which is a new reform with some new ideas and new learning areas well then we're throwing more water on people who are

already drowning. We better give them time to implement it right before going to the loo. Roger Moore I want to get you in here on this. Well it seems to me you've got the House that wants to repeal the high standards and the administration that needs a little more time for implementation it seems to me that. We ought to give the administration more time for implementation. That seems to be the issue right now is to work through this and so the Senate will certainly work with the administration in the house to see if we can keep high standards I think that's the bottom line I think people in this state want and deserve high standards. And I don't think we ought to retract on that. No question about it I think the governor phrased it very well that we've invested 10 years hundreds of millions of dollars at teachers all over the state have worked very hard to work on all of these high standards and it's fairly clear that there are some concerns. And it seems to be in the implementation and

so we ought to figure out what it is we need to do to allow them to implement the various high standards that we want in the state. So I it's I think that we can work this all out personally. All right we're going to go to the live with Jim Newman you have some with a question a comment before you go into that we do want to say that we want to hear more than just a profile of learning so if someone wants to ask about anything involving education please do. Well we certainly will Lou but I'm going to save that for next time this question is about profile. And we have Wayne Fairchild with us and he and his colleagues at the Duluth secondary technical center know more than most about how the profile of learning has worked so far. Thank you much for having us here. These two secondary Tech Center has basically served as a pilot site and we've been on this project for over five years. We've gone through a lot of paper and helped out the forest industry a lot but the actual driving full force of all this basically was to apply what

students learn to provide opportunities for students and to get these students ready for work. The question I have I guess was really what is the rationale for examination of the funding for the technical and will caseload occasional money that might be. Well I guess there has to be I guess that would be to me the the rationale is that the governor is holding his budget to just above the inflation and in order to do that he and in order to put the money into K-12 he was not able to fund some other areas that certainly are worthy. So it was a funding choice. This governor has made it clear that his priority right now is K-12 education. This is K-12 education the secondary Tech Center we do serve high school students. Though I don't have the exact figures in front of me to know exactly how much money I can tell you that administratively within the department. We are looking very closely

at Vo-Tech education and we're looking at it as an option to help students or who are not pace passing in the eighth grade exam. We're looking at it as a way to invigorate their interest in math skills and reading skills in something that's meaningful to them. But to talk about the exact money I'm sorry I don't have those figures in front of me right now with very literacy. I think it's 40 million dollars from that mistake in that the administration has taken. Out of secondary vocational education. And it seems to me that. Well let me just let the administration know that's controversial. All right we're going to be right when you take a look at the whole school to work and the various standards that we have I think cutting and running on vocational technical education is wrong at this time. And so I think there's going to be a fairly strong debate about whether or not that.

I can I believe it's 14 million dollars and that is exactly certain but I think it's about that rates in the mode speaking more generally as the governor talks a lot about how he's given a pretty hefty and healthy increased education across the board but I do think there is maybe some some doubts about where he's putting the money in terms of the budget as a whole is bigger but what do you think of the way he allocates it. You know I don't think there's. Well let me again I can only speak for myself and what I sense is is the sense of the Senate I think the governor's priorities which target to lower class size having the. Trying to get the cross-subsidisation special ed in other words having the general fund which now subsidize special education picking up more special education breakfast for children. These are all we think are good ideas and so I don't we don't disagree with them. I think in the final analysis when we take a look at it there are the nine hundred

thirty million dollars more of K-12 education about four hundred sixty million of that I believe is just from enrollment growth in inflation so it's an additional five hundred sixty I think on top of that. So you're all in agreement that the smaller class size you know 1 ratio is the ideal because we've certainly had experts here on NEWSNIGHT saying that's the last thing they should be concerned about because the claim is there been something like 11 hundred studies done and nothing is conclusive. I think I think you're going to see an initiative for class size reduction. I think that that's pretty well runs through the administration in both the House and Senate. One part of the governor's bill if I could kind of refer back to the question that you asked Roger as far as initiatives I think we in the house like maybe as much or better than any other is the willingness to put some money on the formula. The legislature in the past years has been fairly unwilling to put money in the form that we put a lot of money into education but it's been in this category or that category by putting money in the formula. We not only provide more

flexibility to local school systems but we are also able to do to address that to some degree the great disparity that exists between the higher spending and the lower spending districts in the state it's a little bit more fair as it gets sent out to the students. If you have a person the formula is the general money that the state gives to the schools no strings attached in terms of what they spend it on. That's correct that's basically a good definition I hear talk about class size reduction and then to divorce that from the fact that we're going to be short of teachers here is being kind of penny wise and pound foolish. We really have to look at the whole issue the fact that we're going to be losing a lot of teachers through retirement in the state. And I think that's probably one of the most serious issues we have in public education in this state is how do we attract attract there the best and the brightest into a public school teaching considering the fact that we're going to be short so many faculty members in the not too distant future. And then if you add to that by reducing class size you can certainly certainly compound that problem in some areas so I

think you have to talk about those two issues together. All right and me if we were to go to Wyndham I do want to explain in case you're wondering about your picture that you're getting now from the folks in Windham Minneapolis in the loop that is part of a videophone kind of a new technology for us and it's getting better and better and better and better as we go along. So please bear with us but it's all new technology stuff Mark style and Wyndham go ahead. Thanks Lou. Here in southwest Minnesota there are a lot of small towns and some of those towns have schools and some don't. Each would like to have a school. Roland Carlson teaches first grade in mountain lake and she has a question for Commissioner Jackson on that issue. First of all I like to thank you for being a part of this forum and I would like to extend an invitation to Christine Jax and to Lieutenant Governor me shank to visit my first grade classroom in mountain lake to observe the educational needs of children in greater Minnesota. I have a concern for the future that educational funding in greater Minnesota a decrease in the population has led to a

decrease in dollars available to our schools and what will be done to continue to ensure a quality education for students in small rural schools. Thank you. Well I think part of the way we're going to be able to do that is through not just the increase to the formula but by the value that we're placing on local control whether it is for the extended day program or whether it's for the class size we're asking you what's going to work in your district and in your classrooms and asking you to give us a proposal so that we can target give you the money and evaluate and help you on what you think is the best way to do it. All right. Is there a follow up question there. All right I want to have to talk about another thing that's come up this year is how long kids should be required to go to school. And what are we going to do. We set a minimum. Or do we not have a minimum.

Who are you asking if we want to jump into the Senate just voted on this bill you should start with the Senate. I think we have a preliminary vote last week to repeal the three days you tacked on it was two years ago and that was not a Senate position from before and there was a sense that we asked school districts to put in three more days but we didn't fund it. And so we decided then we would repeal it. You were also two years ago you had three days to a system that had momentum to begin with. No one was sure if they were getting three days is that correct I mean should there be a minimum again. Again I think these are I think it gets back to the whole issue of school districts being able to you know set certain certain criteria. I have a little bit different opinion when it comes to standards. You see I think the state has a legitimate role in setting high standards. I certainly don't disagree with having just reeks. You have to have flexibility with the curriculum and all of that but I think when

as state taxpayers are putting billions of dollars into public education and we want to realize the fullest potential of all of our students I think the state has a right to set high standards and we I think we have to adequately fund K-12 education think we have to get out of the way and I think the Senate has tried to do a lot in recent years to repeal a lot of the mandates and then basically hold districts accountable with measurable outcomes so I have a little bit different point of view in terms of trying that. I think that the state has a legitimate right to expect certain standards to be met. When they say certain things that you're talking about a longer school year though. Again that's usually what your issue is there's no that that's a flexible issue that have to be determined locally. Actually Roger I think you're going to like the House bill a lot. If those are the words that you as you believe in the House bill sets the 15 rigorous areas of academic achievement that need to be met by locally elected decision makers local teachers and they will decide how they're going to meet those rigorous areas in fact we added a

couple of rigorous areas to what the profiles are I think are going to like it a whole lot going through. As I understand the House bill you basically said no state standards. You have three hundred fifty different lyrical. We have we have 15 learning areas that need to be met and then politicians and not like teachers. Well I'm not sure that the school board members are necessarily politicians I mean that's that's what came out of the bill you have politicians setting those learning areas versus what teachers have set in the present high standards. I would I would from my standpoint I would say that the local elected decision makers the school board members are our parents our teachers are not necessarily politicians said they came out of your legislation which you developed just recently just in the last couple of weeks and I think that this isn't the administration would be that the learning areas that the house added to are good. But we have to have a content standards which the House does not have and the content standards are things that cannot be left to local control how they're implemented and the curriculum around them

can be left to local control. But if you leave the content standards themselves to local control then you don't have uniform education and you do not have high standards and there is no way to assure that from one district to another that we're teaching our stillborn children the same things and that the bar is equally high across the three hundred forty districts or it is going to Minneapolis Star-Tribune Lord Lord. I would like to take a letter deeper run to that class size issue I have with me Frank Mueller is from Jackson middle school in America. I'd like to know both the 240 children millions. Alors a lieutenant governor made sure alluded to our going to earmark part of that funding to recruit train and retain quality teachers. Not only are we having a lot of retirements but there are organizations tell us that fully a third of our people are quitting in the first five years due to pressures. Secondly how are we going to get to space. The governor alluded to the closets being used in our special ed classrooms. We have to

create more space and these spaces have to be healthy. Not all our schools provide a healthy environment for the teachers and the students of this state is just going to be part of the formula. Is this going to be a piece of the two hundred thirty seven million or is this going to be something else that we haven't talked about yet. Who wants to answer that. And before you do I just want to say that the folks at home get to see OF THE NATION dressed teachers earlier this evening talking about I believe too many things. What we know that we have to help teachers and we have to help them in the classroom and to improve the environment and that is important to the governor. That's why you're seeing the money going back to the districts and why we increased the formula so that there can be local control and districts can determine both with the class size and how they're going to deal with facilities and in the training of their teachers whether they need to recruit whether they need to mentor coach train. Again we're singing the same song but it's getting back to the local control and having districts determine themselves what it is they need. And we're

providing the funding but providing it with local control. All right we have a follow up question many items. All right let's go on to the loop but again thanks a lot Lou and I'm with Mary Ann Harlow from Lowell elementary school. Thank you. In the 10:00 governor Shanks earlier remarks she described the graduation standards as driven by business needs in the global economy. Many teachers felt cut cut out of the plan from the beginning. How will teachers be a part of the solution other than these forums. How can teachers help fix the profile. I suppose that to me again I think that that was clearly a mistake that we didn't listen to teachers to the extent that we should have. And as we move forward we're going to have to talk to teachers both formally and informally through task forces as well as those who write me an email and call our department. The concern I would have

is that the fact finding that we didn't do it that we should have. We did some but not to the extent that I think we should have. That could actually be compiled If we rush to yet another reform right now because certainly there is not time right now to bring all the stakeholders together and find out from all the teachers what they need with anything new. But Commissioner you know having followed the last couple years of the run up toward the profile. I sure thought that there was a lot of emphasis on gauging both teachers and local administrations I mean the pilot sites how could you do that any better than the state did. Well I think that we could have and the the fact that there are so many people out there who are frustrated the fact there are so many teachers coming forward and saying we didn't get listened to and nobody did ask us tells me that we didn't do the best that we can do. So I'd like to build on what we did you said for 10 years. We did listen to people and we did engage them. Well we didn't do it sufficiently. Let's keep building on that. Let's not throw all that work away and start all over.

But let's build forward you think there's any chance that some of the opposition. Really stems from the fact that they're simply a group of people there's a segment of the population that doesn't like the idea. From the start. Yes and I suppose there are people who don't like change regardless of what it is but I think that there there is room for compromise. I haven't heard anyone say no high standards. I haven't heard anyone say no local control. I haven't heard anyone say that they don't want some uniformity so I think that there are some things that we can do. I haven't heard anyone say please make all of our curriculum. I haven't heard anyone say I love those performance packages so much please keep them in Pakistan for that if this is so I think that there are things that we can do and I think these are lessons that we've had the opportunity to learn and frankly I appreciate what Senator Mo says about supporting the administration to move forward with these things because what a shame to have put this time and money and and to get the feedback to learn where we've made mistakes to learn what people really want through this controversy and then do nothing

with it. I'm not sure that's exactly appropriate. What we've done first of all Mary's question in Duluth gets to the real basis of the profiles in the performance packages. They need ownership. They need ownership from from the grassroots level from from local teachers from local parents local school board members and that's what is missing that local and I think that's the basis of Mary's question is how do they get involved how do they get that ownership so it is not that top down telling us how to teach in developing that curriculum that's very important and I wouldn't say commissioner even that that the hundred twenty five or 200 million dollars has been spent is just throwing it away. You know the the House bill is passed allows school districts that have developed and like the performance packages and like the implementation the they can keep and they can continue with them it is not money that's thrown away and it's developed a tremendous amount of discussion in every school within the state. And even at that then the but you get to the bottom line. You know if it is not working and you know you've

said yourself you've not heard a lot of positive comments even those who were on the House floor voted against it did not speak highly of the profiles. You know there's that old saying you know you don't throw good money after bad. Mr. Speaker the question from Duluth also contains reference to the fact that this whole thing got started years ago when employers said it's sort of a crapshoot when you hire a graduate of a Minnesota school system what they know what they've learned. The whole point of statewide standards is state wide standards if you're making this voluntary again. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose. Well we're not necessarily making it voluntary Merton as you know under the House bill that passed there are 15 areas that need to be addressed with the development the development the curriculum that's going to be locally decided rigorous academic standards as someone and I don't know what those contents were in that just roll that's why we have the accountability part of the of the of the bill and the accountability was actually enhanced in the bill as you know right now rather than the third fifth and eighth grades. We have third fifth eight and 11. But then with an additional testing the accountability

part for parents for for tax payers that was actually enhanced in the bill with and with an additional Norm Norm reference test. I added in the 11th grade. What do you say to folks who talk on this program and go I can't believe those guys sitting up there. Get back to the basics. There was good enough for me. Come on teaching reading writing arithmetic. Come on and quit messing around with all this nonsensical newfangled stuff. What do you say to the core curriculum. I think that's that's where most parents are. Is that that core curriculum and if you if you you know look at those rigorous academic standards which were in the bill I think you would probably say that that's pretty much core curriculum. All right let's. I would say that we certainly want all children to be able to read and write and do math and maybe it's irrelevant what the capital of Bolivia is to them if they don't know how to read and write. But for the many children who do read and do write and do their math well we need to have higher standards. And what I got a great education in the Bloomington schools. But what I was being prepared for

and what my children are being prepared for is vastly different. I could memorize most of what I needed to memorize because there wasn't much knowledge out there back then. Now might my children need to be able to synthesize and integrate knowledge from interdisciplinary sources. All right now we're going to mark style in Windham. Our thanks. We have a question about the school funding from Chuck Miller who teaches mathematics. First of all thank you for the opportunity to be a part of this forum. I think if we would have been part of this forum when the proper profiles of learning of standards started we probably would be in this situation. I put my question to you is this is that I funding in rural Minnesota is based like all other power throughout the state on what people in RAM our environment seems to fluctuate from year to year quite drastically. Therefore our funding also fluctuates quite drastically from year to year. There's a prepares that's being run through the area that averaging of loss of students over a three year period rather than taking it year by year would be

would be happen in a city near to us we were asked to do things like Institute technology Well we don't have the money to institute to buy that. The hardware that's needed to institute the technology that we need to. Whereas say looking for some things like retirement for issues that are coming up. Maybe one thing that needs to also look at in this is a little bit different from from the run of the mill thing but maybe we need to have a special levy that's locally funded or locally led we look at Live Aid for insurance for retirees. These people are put in a long time a lot of effort into education system and then just to drop them into one of the Bears drastic cost that they have at the end of their career. Is insurance and if they could continue on the in with the insurance that they've had from the school districts now this might be a help to them. New one coming change the way we fund schools. Well you know as it relates to that one particular issue that that gentleman raised

I supported I'm an author on the bill. But then again you have to understand where I come from I think we're losing more in Rome and we're in Windham. I come from a very sparsely populated part of the state. And there. It's fairly obvious all of your students don't just drop out of one class so that you can reduce a teacher. So I think that that there are some legitimate reasons why we can could kind of cushion that impact on school districts. I also if I'm not mistaken and I know that the commissioner can help me on this but some of the districts the class size is not an issue. Maybe some of the smaller districts like in Windham class size is not an issue. I believe districts can apply for those resources if they can show different methods of student improvement. And so I would hope that that's flexible for technology because in rural school districts with that are losing

population and distance is a factor I think technology is certainly one of the answers it's not the only answer but it's one of the answers that I think will help keep the schools there and provide educational opportunity and I think high quality education as well. That is money that's available. If a district has reached the average class size of 17 to 1 then money is available for them to decrease or to improve their achievement and that's something they could do. Also the governor does understand how important it is to fix the formula and has set up a blue ribbon commission to look at the funding formula. Well what he says is that if only six people in Minnesota understand the funding formula. It's time to get something new that many are going to go to Minneapolis Laurie start of it. We're talking about issues concerning smaller rural districts. We have an issue here on the mind of Maria Renee Grigsby from Ames Elementary in St. Paul that affects a number of urban districts.

Well first of all I'm disappointed that the Rolling Stones take precedence but. There's a chair of over education. He has stated that he is colorblind at least when it comes to racial background. I would like to know how you believe the process for racially equitable standards of a multicultural curriculum and the separate but equal neighborhood schools that may result if we go back to neighborhood schools how will the racially equitable treatment of treatment of all students be guaranteed by a colorblind governor. Is the profile of Colorblind the way it stands right now. Well the cause of it. There is no answer to that because the profile is how it's implemented in the classroom. And I think that how a teacher designs curriculum and how a teacher presents that curriculum in the classroom is up to is up to that teacher. The whole colorblind comment we know we need to meet children where children are and know what their needs are. And in some situations their race and the treatment they've received because of their race

is relevant and needs to be addressed. But if ever there is an issue of local control that is an issue that is where that issue lies because no one can speak better to the situation than the people who are living it. Right and I do want to make a point about the Rolling Stone comment with the governor not to speak on the governor's behalf but I can count on one hand like zero the number of governors in the past have ever taken a time even discussed these issues and even come here tonight to discuss it in this forum we appreciate that very much and he did have a prior arrangement to see the Rolling Stones. Any additional comments that it was more towards the governor thinks this all right. And what about your own school. Do we send kids to school you're only given options but are you going to get sick of me saying this but it's local control if it and the district has the money and they want to do that. That's something they can they can do and have. Well some areas actually know in some areas it may not be necessary for some students it may not be appropriate.

Minneapolis public schools took the opportunity to do you summer school as a way to remediate students who are falling behind and at risk of failing the eighth grade exam and they had remarkable results. So there's an opportunity where it worked for him for a short period of time for some students. Sounds good to me. Right. One of the things that is all the time we have tonight and we would very much like to thank the governor speaker swagga majority leader Roger Moe and Commissioner Jack for joining us and thanks to all of the teachers from around the state of Minnesota who participated as well. And one more reminder to Newsnight greater Minnesota viewers if you have any comments or questions for new DNR commissioner Garber get them to us by Wednesday afternoon for the show that night call 6 5 1 2 2 9 1 4 3 0 or course you can e-mail us at Katie's for Martin Kaste and all of our partners I'm in the harbor. Thank you again for joining us. NEWSNIGHT Minnesota is made possible in part with supporting the Blendon Foundation

creating a stronger Minnesota by bridging rural and urban community. The McKnight foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life for Minnesota families and by Cargill supporting Minnesota's tradition of community service. Diversity unit reporting on NEWSNIGHT Minnesota is provided by the J and Rhodes Phillips Family Foundation promoting good relations among all races and religions.