The 51st State; Youth Gangs in the South Bronx

17 million people in Greater New York and it's great news and such a great city it's pretty hard to contemplate. That's why I come to think giving it as a 50 First Dates. Hello I'm Patrick Watson this is the fourth edition of the fifty first state and tonight the largest part of our program is going to be devoted to the youth of the South Bronx. We've got a major film report and that's going to be followed by a discussion of the issues it raises with the film's producers and members of the community. I.

Wonder when you're going to give us the homes which we paid for we are the middle class. We bought and paid for those buildings on good faith. We signed contracts which were backed up by the HDI which was supposed to protect us but which they have not. And what do you do you keep giving Mr. Walsh more and more money and more and more power and the middle class is going to flee the city. Gentlemen New York City is dying. It's at a terminal point now. You are the doctor. You have the medicine you can heal this cancer you can heal the cancers of Walsh and Michigan and Caldwell Wingate and all the other graft isn't corrupted or you can let this city die. The choice is up to you gentlemen. It's in your hands or to estimate late this afternoon on Monday we reported on the and towers dispute in Brooklyn. That's a

co-operative apartment project being built under the supervision of the city. The people who made down payments from thirty five hundred six thousand dollars discovered not too long ago that the costs of construction have driven the carrying charges up astronomically and they blame the city for inadequate control of the Housing Development Authority has asked the board of estimate to increase the mortgage under the state Mitchell plan. This would permit completion of the building but here is a double bind. If the Board of Estimates says yes to a higher mortgage than the cooperatives the cooperators can move in only at the higher charges or else get their money back and give up hopes of living where they had planned to live. And incidentally those carrying churches have gone from 250 to 385 a month for a two bedroom apartment. If the board says no the builders may abandon the project and the cooperatives could lose their downpayment unless the city comes to the rescue. The cooperatives are charging fraud that the developers with the cooperation of the city

knowingly sold apartments on the basis of the low charges long after they knew that the costs had gone skyward. How Levinsohn was at that crucial meeting of the board of estimate this afternoon. How did they ever get to a boat. Yes they did. At about 9:00 a.m. night after eight hours of private meetings a public hearing the board voted to support an amended resolution 18 for the amended resolution calls for an increase of about 20 percent in the Kerry charges as opposed to 65 percent which was the initial increase of the ACA it asked for the 20 percent increase will cover the first two years of the life of the project once it's completed. After that time it will be up in the air. The cooperators or whoever is living in the building at that time will face a very serious financial problem. So that means that the companies could move in as soon as the buildings is 20 percent hike over what they committed. That's right. Which is which is the lowest figure that has been thrown at them up to date by that.

No they were very unhappy about that proposal because it did nothing to deal with what they thought were two critical items in a situation which was the manner in which they handled the entire affair and the manner in which the developer handled the affair. The board of estimate did nothing to move against either race or the developer and they were very unhappy about that. By the way the board vote was was 3:42 Brooklyn Borough President Leoni and Bronx borough president Abrams voted against the amended resolution which by the way was developed late in the evening by a controller Abraham B who has been known for his financial wizardry. That's mathematics. OK what happens next. Well now the board is estimators has has taken the fraction of the cooperators who are boring in now choose to move and at a 20 percent increase in your current charges a year if they choose to. The agreement is supposed to provide that any of the cooperators who cannot afford even that increase will get there will get

their money refunded but that remains to be seen it is uncertain. On top of that there are a number of other things that are pending in the situation. Attorney General Lefkowitz has a civil suit which is pending against the developer. That is. That is against the developers of the Brooklyn district attorney has a grand jury investigation which is going on and we might expect to hear something on that in two or three weeks. The cooperators themselves have to have a couple of lawsuits pending against the developer. And I think the story is far from over and notwithstanding the board of action tonight. So one last point those people the cooperators have a contract surely with the developers. Yes there was a push back in Suan. Yes there was a prospectus which was issued at the time they purchased their apartments and that's the controversial prospectus which they say was was outdated very shortly after it was put out and as it turned out the contract between the developer and the general contractor did not conform to certain requirements in the prospectus according to Google operators.

And on that basis they are proceeding with various legal staying with the story. Now we're going to stay with the story. OK how leavens And thanks very much and we'll be back in a moment with our special full length report on the use of the South Bronx many of whom are now assembled in the studio to talk to us. Last November a channel 13 program called free time focused on a group of young people who live in an incredibly depressed area. The South Bronx group that appeared on free time the Ghetto brothers explained that they no longer considered themselves a gang but a family concern was the pressing social issues that affect their lives. One of the Ghetto brothers was

Cornell Benjamin three weeks after he appeared on our program. Cornell was involved in a gang fight and was killed. We have a tape of some of what Colonel Benjamin said on free time after we've seen that tape. One of our producers Tony batton will report on what has happened to the Ghetto brothers since Cornell Benjamin was killed. And like you know like I'm actually I've got to I'm going to lie about it now when I came to them I was still using drugs. That was about four months ago five not recently. I'm going to move on. I think I was off and on since 1967. A really nice going up one time I was doing this respect you know I told them they hadn't seen me for a good raw. They didn't know why. Well that's where I was. I was in the hospital and I went to get when I came back home. I had everything straight know. And your best moments. I mean I love get over this.

So what do you want to do months straight. I mean you could really you know it's not that you know like I've been working with people for as adults and because all my life that you know like I haven't messed up quite a few times but this is something that's beneficial to neighborhood establishment and everybody else in the ghetto get ulcers which are the kids they must stay in school. We want them to stay in school. I us that because on around. I got to go to this patrol I'm Tony bathin the story of Cornell Benjamin and the gang families live in the South Bronx did not end with the killings of one young man in the streets. When we first heard that Cornell had been killed by kids to go to the South Bronx and look into some of the conditions that caused another man to be murdered. I would like to advise our viewers viewers that what you're about to see is not all pleasant in the film you

will hear the language of some mean streets. We hope that you can stay with us and look beyond the symbols of these streets to the broader issues the basic questions of oppression. With me in the studio are some of the principals in the drama of Cornell Benjamin. And we will discuss what has happened since in the South Bronx after this film for. Benjamin was 25 years old when he was murdered in the Bronx. And such like Monsignor Melrose point children become men and still retaining an innocence remain children long after the time their ages might suggest. In the South Bronx today. This is an ironic frequent event among the youth of this

community and the fist of irony is clenched within the knowledge that death violent death is often most heavy here among the poor who may seem to have so little to lose here. Perhaps because of its frequency. Sorrow is never born out of any sense of fear. To live in this community today may maybe to share in any human existence one must learn from implausible models the speciality of survival. One must be relentless in the pursuit of survival as these tough city Pidgen with hands and legs to round eyes that see life and death which may unless one is stronger than the strong crush whatever

hue and sensibilities there are left remaining one might ask how does one learn the speciality which separates man from what we consider the lower animals on the streets. The use of the South Bronx is moulded and educated and the rules of the survival game last night on my. Car with the cop came running. He was on. The my way. This is Charlie Mullen the president's brother. He was born and has

lived all of his life on the streets. Charlie Melendez the Ghetto brothers group is the only family that is ever truly known. And so the killing of a ghetto brother particularly someone as important to the group as black Benjie was demands in the context of my pass life in the South Bronx a response of more violence more like a kind of escalation of the continuing war. These young men against each other as reflections of daily elements of oppression the mirror images of this oppression the promise of an unfulfilled aspiration a crap game. All of it may result in a corner knife fight and yet another irrational killing or more subtly the free flow of drugs in this community and its accompanying genocide destroys was a terrible noise when I walk around like I like to think and I think that I'm you know maybe I'm crazy

or maybe it's just that I like to do it but when I walk around I can look at things you know I'd be looking to and I see so many of them are very strong. And I see you're selling you know selling clothes has changed and this is what drives me off and I think that you know it's got to stop sometime. The youth groups are wired to each other by Ruma. And so the question of what is truth becomes the major obstacle to any course heading off violent retaliation by other gang groups as well as the Ghetto brothers. Charlie Melendez and Playboy one of the group members returned to the scene the killing of black. We started we came down the stairs. And we stopped there and there was about 30 20 of us. And then when we looked around we seen them and then you can you see it in the corner. And they were. And then when we got to the bottom of the

stairs when they seen us there was only about nine of us. So that's when it started you know. Tracking tracking and. Tracking towards us like they didn't have there was hiding the weapons you know. Finding the weapon. That's. When you came out and he said he took a step forward and he said. I'm ready to talk peace. And the guy came out and he said shit I like that you can jump and look like you can jump and grab a fight and have had this happen and started swimming. So when he started swinging it. Like that's when the guy pulled out in the shed and that's when they had us surrounded. And then like us we were in the back. And I just went to bed because I panicked. I just remember. So. Many said to me too because there were too many. So we started running right like on my right side. So I heard a noise you know how.

It looks like. I got hit in the stomach and he tried. To jump into many of its residents. The South Bronx is a jungle reflects its own set of ethics. One. Of the reasons behind the random act of violence become no fear often clouded and not what we've come to expect from this civilized society. After all men die here because they are in the way of some force because they welched somehow on life just because there is no room in this scheme of things to allow them to live. In this neighborhood. One is lucky only as one learns the wisdom of the street. Early here to be lucky is to stay alive. Charlie Melendez might even venture predictions as to the future quality of life for those who come after him.

I guess this is what the teenagers are going to make you guys might try and find the one. What we do is let's them because like you don't they're going to be there when they get older. I'd like to get to my club is doing that will get us all together just like community and they're going to think. Whatever they think is what's it. That's what they're going to do. Ask was one of the institutions that's really doing what people. Are just out of school and you stay about Lincoln in Washington. That's all fine I can dig that. But as you know by yourself you know you know about your leaders your heroes so you can look up to them because. It's just like what was happening in the Bronx or little kids I recognize you as. A child is tough and I know karate Well look little kids. They don't want to be like that. They were taught that they had their own lives

and I thought if they going to be Puerto Rican and now you know just to be a person they can speak Spanish you can speak English. And they were taught at school that they did do something and they did something for yourself and that would mean this wouldn't come about. But disclosable really opened my eyes. That was Kevin. Morton Weinberger the principal of a neighborhood junior high school and a teacher in the city's public school system for nearly 20 years confides his frustration to an interviewer. Does the school in any way to reach out into the community to deal with some of these moments. We like to say that we tried to reach you. We have tried to establish even community centers where they have done that and that we try to set up the street like cabernets and street clubs

where we can see some of the early on that just tending to they read the. We have organizations such as RA and organizing the clinics where people could go. But the truth is for the 16 to 18 19 age group and not enough is being done this is women and something. Do you feel that you're a part of this community. I would like to think that if I get up at 5 o'clock in the morning and be here at 7 o'clock and I stay in and not every day by any means but I'll be here for community meetings community school board meetings and sometimes sit down in the car and I will attend functions such as Well last Friday night

attending the national association with Reagan right here right after school. We have passed through the Community Education complex developing one of the finest programs in musical development. For instance this runs down five six o'clock we have our children. Students participate in community activities. We are recognizing our children need something to see neither dances in Harlem. I like to think that we spend a lot of time. Am I a resident of a community she has a principal in the community. I like to be in this. In a community where a $5 bag is understood to mean a dose of heroin and perhaps a mean four hours of forgetfulness and scratch is

obviously the money in one's pocket where the mind is changed when it gets eaten. Many appear to speak of alternatives. Manny Dominga is a teacher of mathematics and principal Weinberger's Junior High School suggests that some of the problems of this community originate in institutions ones designed to prepare citizens for rows of productivity talking on television. You don't react to your job of becoming concerned with these kids or outside of the school. Well order to work with them has been times when I've had to leave the school and interest everyone like that because I could help keep that tiger away from the door. But once the Tiger started to settle down and stay away from the door I was told I couldn't go. I couldn't talk to them anymore. I couldn't use the phone to

help them anymore. I couldn't leave the class. Like when I saw what was going on on Thursday My first impulse was to leave the class. But I realized two things one that my primary responsibility was to get me to that school. Yeah the kids in the class so I knew I had to stay there but I also knew that my impulse to leave was restricted by. The principals feeling that I should say in the school no matter what happens what's really going on is a problem because people can only handle the defined roles. And if you step out of the role to solve a problem you solve the problem. They say well OK we understood that if something goes wrong then they say you shouldn't step out of the role. And so I think a lot of people are afraid that if I continue to step out of the role that there will be a problem which will reflect on their

control over me their influence over me. Do you think that your role as a teacher in a community school the public school system system should be extended to to the community at large to the kids in the street who are out of school. That's what I think I should never use the phone. I think I should be able to leave during my free period. I think I should be able to if the crisis is great and I say to the fellow that I work with man when you take my classes to work in a double room you know and you told me that time is a problem I'll take the other part for you you know we'll just consolidate the classes and you can leave. And I think that that should be allowed. You know if someone's getting killed out in the street my dad will stop it. I think I should be able to split out there if I've got the relationship with the people can stop it. What's the killing of backbends. To a group like the ghetto brothers. Well it means the loss of a friend. It means the loss of someone that they are respected and valued as a

member of the family. It means that. That the situation out there was so bad that. Two brothers kill each other. Maybe they should start analyzing the situation and maybe they should start thinking about why it happened. What is. It's just like what happened to King County the next day you know that this is now they die now they're working and now they're doing this on its own because they're willing to leave now. I was going to have meetings. None of them want to talk about peace. What do you think might come out of you. I guess you just going to it's just going to be a better life together because you break they don't know what's happening. What would you like to see for for this part of the Bronx for

your career. You know it's not like our kids get sick when you come back. Going to wait and see. We want to help our people. And so it was arbitrarily decided it would be no retaliation no gang were reminiscent of the 1950s to the accompaniment to popping guns the sound of adolescent rage through the streets and the word went out. It would be a meeting of all the families in the area throughout the planning for the meeting. Charlie Mullen was wearing an army flak jacket for the streets he considered the possibilities of a truce between

the police as much as left the arrangements to the youth with three youth patrolmen covering an area of the Bronx about the size of the island of Manhattan was probably there was just moved. Around the boundaries of the forty first precinct appropriately designated Fort Apache by the police working out of it. The wise policeman keeps a low profile. And there was little interference from the police until later. So the process of turning the killing of Cornell Benjamin into something positive for the community was made to depend upon a trust me being engineered by the ghetto brothers and to be attended by gang presidents and vice presidents from all over the area before the gang members introduced themselves. Charlie Melendez demanded that all police operatives leave anything including a police trouble shooter assigned to the cities. He left.

Prison sentence by threatening young president to walk out from a young Senate fight over President Obama because he was seen by a get a brother was a big brother. But some city officials remained quietly in the background. Ted gross commissioner of the Youth Services Agency observed the proceedings and listened to the speeches by gang members concerned with the tensions in the neighborhood. I'll tell you exactly what it means for me because I

was like wow what a pipe like wow. That's right. And we will look you man. We want to take good care. We will know why. Because we have to be called to be called Tell Me I got to pay to play youth services agency commissioner. GROSS responded to questions put to him by an interviewer. Do you think that the groups of you are different than the bopping gangs of the 40s and 50s.

How I want. I think that they're are a blend of several stages out and are developing or developing a protest. I think in the ghetto community the bottom again was the method of protest at one time by young people that was in the 40s and 50s and we get to the 60s where we have the student activists and that becomes the ideal thing and they are talking about social issues well you know the gains of the 40s and 50s we're not concerned about social issues. They are concerned about whether or not you insult the poor girl not those who came into the area. Now the youngsters are raising social problems also aside from being having a tendency to bop they have been raising a very real social problem social concern that they aware of and they want the system to do something about it. So I think that the groups today are a blend of the fighting gangs of the 40s or 50s. And it's a protest movement of the 60s they have. A. Maybe we should say a healthy blend.

You come out like like we do right now. I'm going to come down here. Let's all go along that created the problem by kicking these guys out in the first place not behaving properly. They kick them out for not behaving right. Well the guys who are out on their own because they get sick and tired of all this nonsense is being fed to them. Of course it doesn't mean anything to them. Our requirements don't mean to really. Everyone talks about reading reading reading reading to me reading is just a measure of the control that we're able to exhibit on these kids. The chief means of communication if there is talk and those kids want to talk to each other they get to read and don't bother with reading. I don't

give them any books and say Here read this about read my QCA read you know Freud read we talk and all the ideas are communicated. Politics the sex everything is communicated through talking. To these kids and they want to talk. These guys talk all day long. Benji. Benji will talk all day long. All right. Well I think he was most proud of his rap. OK. The guy with a good rap. Right. He's a respected man and that's when one of the main reasons why you is expected. Because when he raps all kinds of things change all kinds of things happen. Things got better. You know they love to talk and they're in schools with the criminal at the top. Hey you're talking to me like any mother you're talking like. Well how long can these kids who loves rap who are out in the street and and with their friends and derive their mail or their manhood off their ability to read. How long are they going to stay in school. Where is a criminal on the top. Of the school. Drive them out one way or another they kick them out and they drop out themselves. So I think the school created the problem.

You want to know when your child die. Your Type A static. Let me tell you what's happening now because obviously the man you're seeing because like we didn't have a static people man we didn't ask you people for the color. And you people didn't give us our colors back then. You don't just trip and you people you have to get over the crowd. When we started out of my life I was like Wow we got to live in this district. Why did you come down here. I live in a lot of houses. Why to come down here I may have fucked up. Fuck it. No fucking with you Jack. So we got to make it a better place. It's going to be like wow what a motherfucker that out there is going to for the future. Would you say that there's a power vacuum in the Bronx a power vacuum. If you're talking about a vacuum being being created by the fact that enough young people

are not involved in the decision making and the power structure of the Browns. Yes. Not only liberals that would hold true for the whole city you would turn to the true meaning of the boys club last week several evenings ago. What did you think of it. First of all I thought it was frightening and frightening as hell to be quite honest about it I think that one that I hope that truth can be attained from this meeting and from the subsequent meetings they had. There's a lot of dangers as you. You were there and you saw it by having this many groups together. One no one can predict what would happen at a meeting that we had over 200 yards of about 20 groups represented and with obviously some antagonism between groups. And all that had to do was get out of hand and the head math have it what prevented that from getting out of my work. I would say my work. What role do you think Charlie Wallenda Benji Melinda

Marvin played. I think it played a role of keeping it from getting out of hand. I just feel concerning that the reason for them being that helped I guess the most frightening aspect of the whole meeting was the terrible is frightening because these kids don't even know me. I do not care what other people anyway do you know I don't think I'm a bad guy. I stayed at home and would just get back together

and put it all together you know. Right. And finally let us know that you know that you know I mean would you be able to go back and think about some of the groups are potentially dangerous. I think the most positive thing about him that there are drug free and I'm willing to look at all the other negative things like the fact that they are drug free and that I think that we really have to work with them and try to keep them

clean get them their energy channeled into a positive way. That's called the positive way whatever the system or the community decides in a positive way for young people which is not always the best for young people even though we would never look for trouble. I can understand that killing him is another thing. Get away with his life. And we want you to look at him saying I wish the immortals if they would just see what it is like. You don't want us to become a guy again because I know you don't I know you were in a meeting and you told me what did you tell me. I want to get out. I just didn't get out alive. Then he died. The thing is we're not ok anymore or should we want to go back and live in a better environment. You see down with is now something that people might take it away is like taking a bath is not an organization

because I heard that going around to say look let's get you guys a job people really you know Hell's Angels black and Puerto Rican black and what are you going to show you what it's like. In some ways as a reflection of a larger more controlling society. The gang groups and families caucused and decided how the business tension conflict and rumor would be settled within their community. Right now the birds negotiation them exchange food but the anger and tension have created and it is known all of this must be done before any attempt at peace or a reduction of the tension may be brought about.

Will this peace treaty on the relative calm remain. One day. The applause that lead to calls for peace youth services work it is not a convincing guarantee. Much is still left up to family members and they here only a bit more. The fear is who will come together and whispers calm down but there must be fruitful in private away from the eyes and ears of the truth.

We don't want people to judge. I'm telling. Well you're there to represent again we're really telling them. We're not here to represent again you. We're the ones who going to be running in the future. So look at us look at our job. We're here cleaning up the streets trying to get your Trojan horse so willing to cooperate with us. All right. And again just to get to the person you're showing you know so much. Is actually can tell them but first you know let me stay here. I can do is let me get my friends together and form a club. I feel

I showed up here and they should just get organized and start all club. You can Wall Street these days. You never can tell what's going to happen in the corner where I struggle to ski jumping or another traffic stop and say Give me your money shot I'm gonna kill you. This is not a peaceful place to live in to me. Born in the Bronx. You can live a peaceful life not even the next thing you can be going what happened to my base which What's think to a I like him to sit down and say right now we look at the clock every minute that passes somebody who comes home from somebody has been killed and suffering and we can put an end to it because we think we know what it is to be pushed around by police whether it is to get locked up. So the thing is is that if we get together and say well the people need to stop this is we don't get any money. I don't think probably people are going to be sent to us. We're going to

do it for the community. We're going to keep working your community to see what the government's going to look at who's going to say to themselves why are we paying attention. They're doing the job these kids are doing. They say they get it because I want my child to say when he grows up what my father's side see. And I want things to change because I don't want to be even going solve shop where everything is messed up. I don't want my son to be walking in class streets. I don't want to live in a building that's all mixed up in the ghetto. I want to live in a good environment. For us tonight. And the 64 state studios are several invited guests to gross commissioner of the Youth Services Agency Mario barbell director of the Bronx boys club. Leader Eveleen Cincinnati and Lorraine came from the United Bronx parents community organization and several presidents and vice presidents and guests from youth groups located in

the South Bronx like to open to much discussion by asking one of the members of the Ghetto brothers specifically Charlie Melendez how the truce has worked out. We put out a little do you a little bit of static here but nothing like your phone. So what do you do when when when trouble starts now. What what have we got to go. Because if you have little bit of phone calls or no chance I actually buy something that's a pretty. Good square. A lot of things can save a lot of people a whole lot of study. What was the last time. Could you give us an example of the last time that you had some problems and what you had to do. How do you get around. Just the other day. Well I had a problem with black and I mean you know my brother has but himself you know this time I tell you I don't even know like I want to talk about you. Is that true. No.

OK. Well the South Bronx people the youth in the South Bronx service the youth services agency. I mean these workers are involved in any kind of servicing. Commissioner grew up in the South Bronx area and the city is home. The South Bronx or South Bronx. About 55 45 get on the exact number. Well how is that what's the basic means of service. Well some of you a lot of the Senate members signed to work with some of the groups that we have more groups that we have work. What we've done we've hired some of the young people who are. Part of the organization itself to assist my workers in working with one of the things that I think that is important for the viewers understand is that the youth services agency does not view the groups in the South Bronx as gangs that think that Belinda's stated very clear that there are about positive things and I think that we have a responsibility to help them do the positive things and that's what the agency is attempting to

do now. Biscayne Orbison's and somebody from the Bronx Peritz you feel that the U.S. and the South Bronx are being serviced and they're being serviced fairly well. Well I would like to think that I think they must be hiding under the rock because we are fighting them and there are many times when community agencies can lend a hand and no one ever cut taxes. For instance I remember the day that you got killed the next day I called. That growth office and I spoke to some of these people I said Where are your people now. How could this be happening to our young people here where I was where are your workers you inside work will see you from the south. We have something like 54 to 60 you still work. We work with many of them have high school dropouts high school students some college students

and they are doing very positive things for instance right now they're And I think. To bring out the questions of the high schools the fact that the students are only allowed to go to Mars. And Ben Franklin this is one of the better schools. And when Mr. Weinberg was talking there was a lot of hogwash because I heard a lot of Perseus all say hogwash but let me let me say that I have seen many young people pushed out of there for insignificant problems. And I have seen them take to the streets. If they find a smoking pot or whatever they are but look I say I don't say is there any is there any thought that you know young young people have maybe

beginning some kind of alternative to go to a school. You don't feel comfortable with. How would you describe it could anybody describe it describe a school that you might want to start. What would you study what I would like and what I wouldn't I wouldn't be I wouldn't that has been one of the school ever taught me that that one time is like dying on you. You know I learned that I learned that from all from from our Ben Stein. I don't understand him. He's never taught me that at one time. It was the I'm I'm more like you say I'm mixed race. I never knew that. I know that you have to find that out around the block. Yes I did. I mean listen if I was to be in school I would know that right now. I don't know. I don't believe in the school system. Let me tell you I'm 20 years old and I know that you stand for my age I know a lot. And where I learn in the

street. The school can do nothing for me. So I've got to sit here completely irrelevant. I want young people think that schools have failed them from the time they go when by the time they're in second grade they're already behind. And they feel completely alienated to the system that's dealing with a middle class type of teaching. And it's just not relevant to their lives to what's happening in their communities. So they have completely turned up how could you blame them when they begin to throw rocks and break windows and run amok and fight amongst each other. It's the schools themselves have failed them and we do not have sufficient teachers of our own to be in those schools so that they could perhaps look up to what many. You are a teacher at this 1:33. How do you explain the fact that you've been able to relate to two young people and the way that you do when other teachers may not be able to do that. Or do you feel that

you are alone in the kinds of ways that you can relate. You know there are other teachers that relate to the guys here. I'm sure they can tell you the names of a few of the people are they. Well what made you begin to think that you had to move in and out of the classroom to deal with with kids that were not there in the schools. Most of the kids were outside the school. The brightest most powerful kids were also at the school and grown kids the best the best minds were outside the school and I'm concerned with reaching the best minds in the outside the school that's where you go it's the best minds are outside of the school and some of the best energies. What do you think we will have to do in order to use utilize these energies towards something good for everybody. But one thing you have to learn and figure out what they want from you and answer them as best you can. Well what do you want want one

you get a sense of what you're talking about education that's education. And everybody should get education. Let's look at the fact the problem we've got in the South Bronx like right now I got kids in my nephews and in them and we landed. And right now we've got two problems. The kid can't write or read and he's 11 years old. And right now because they can't he can't meet today's standards. They want to kick him out of school. My one thing that we're going to pretend we got to the city is we got to take over the school and we've got to go get them back. You know something to the head because they talk about understanding how the hell can they understand when they got 35 kids and classroom and when teachers don't put a little bit of second energy into one kid like him. I mean now they want to send to 600 school. And I think that's pretty bush. You know what we've got to work with the problem and the South Bronx in our community like the school I guess is the teacher. We'll take a little bit more effort you know because their job is from what from eight to three after

three that hell with the kids. You know I'm getting paid. I'm getting a salary. You know what. So what I go into a classroom and I look at 35 kids and they make their homework I don't care if they do I do get paid twice a month. You know what are we talking about. We're talking about the kids. You know what. This is a coming generation is around us and they're 12 13 14 years old and there's one thing we've got to deal with. My point is to bring it across to the people that are watching us right now. We got to find problems with the youth in the South Bronx. And the biggest problem comes from school from lack of education. If they don't get no kind of motivation something they can push for it like they go. You know. Right now you just get out. What are your goals. What do you want out of school. Well I want to get me a job at a factory. You know I want to get me there I guess as a teacher they were putting all their energy on at least half of the energy into these kids. You know they could say well I want to be a teacher. You know what I want to be a size that but no they don't. They

drop out because they don't see nobody reaching out for them helping them out. And then something that is a problem and this now in the south and in the majority in New York and again all because the teachers well. Well the Board of Education and not pushing hard enough by any one of them problems in our schools is that students don't have any power over what happens when a teacher decides that a student should be suspended a student has very little say over what happens to them if a kid wants to drink water in the school and the principal and the assistant principals have turned off the water there's no way it could get the water turned on. Well I was in the school yesterday for example and I saw students that were in the halls and moving in and out of classrooms and they seemed to be they seemed to be free access to water to restrooms to cafeterias. I wasn't aware of any kind of restriction or you didn't see the locked bathroom. You don't

know about that. You don't know about all the water fountains that were turned off on the floors that the visitors never go to. You know you were on the show floor on the fourth floor but on the fifth floor of the waterfront. And on the third second and first was turned off. But you know you got the show you saw the open bathroom you saw that the water that was on maybe they knew you were coming. OK. But the students are absolutely powerless and one of the things I've noticed in my school is that since these guys have been affecting the neighborhood the school the kids have a sense a greater sense of power. They're not as frightened as they used to be. And people who are becoming frightened now are other people who've been very repressive in the past. Mr. Weinberger has left. His assistant principal in charge of fear and repression has left and I think a lot of the other assistant principals would like to see if they could. And a lot of the teachers are saying that the school is getting terrible what I think they say is that

they're losing that kind of control over the kids that they've enjoyed in the past. I think the reason they're losing it is because these young men who are becoming you know full blown men are exerting an influence over the people inside the schools and the power is going to the people we've been talking about the schools and the energy that these young people have mentioned. GROSS could you offer some suggestions as to how that energy could be used. First of all I think that you talk about young people. I heard one of the workers was introduce himself as 12 years old and it gets to be a little beyond the young person's age. I mean is that correct. The school does not solve the problem for basically most of the youngsters we have here. I think that the what we have here is the failure of our system basically the failure of the job training program we have to say the economy that we have the low job most of the jobs would like to get a job

they possibly can and most of them would like to do something to better their living conditions working on the housing that these things are not available. I think one of the things that the system has to do is beginning to address themselves to those types of needs the needs that they have and that if we're going to have job training programs that we have a job training program where there's a guaranteed job at the end of it that you're not just training someone to have a trained young person stand on a corner. And I think that's one of the basic problems that many of the problems we've instituted. We're also getting the youngster was not good at the things that we have here. And I think we have to begin to address ourselves to the yes that we have today and stop dealing with the 1950s. Is that true of the boys club as well as the youth services agency Mr. Barber. Well boys clubs of America. It is a fairly conservative group and I believe that a fairly conservative view mean that there is no room in the boys club for young like these. You know I can't sit on the

board as a whole. I mean the national body our boys club has instilled too many new programs the program which I'm director of is a first of any boys club in the country working specifically with members of the clinics. The other security groups as commissioner likes to call. Again our problem lies in the fact that I find that these kids don't want a handout. They don't want something that is given to them. They would like to work if they had the opportunity to get the job. Most of the programs the job training programs leads them to nothing. You know in the Boys Club we have a job counselor. This man beats his head against the wall trying to find jobs. I mean you can we have in our program about 500 of the members. What about the I wrote about a program the young man was a Puerto Rican in

the Bronx started several months ago in which he began to renovate and look after apartments. What about the kinds of work that can be created and are there no possibilities to do out. No I think that this is probably a good answer. We have the manpower we have the mine given the opportunity to establish themselves in businesses of their own given the opportunity as this young man did to be able to I think this goes a long way to solving a lot of our problems. If they can find themselves economically secure and I think that then they can begin to deal with the system on the systems level rather than saying I'm a quick I'm a member of something you know and you have to deal with me as that person. But is it necessarily negative or bad or not a not a good thing for these young people who consider themselves members of families or quirks.

No I think this is one of the strong points of the Clix is that they are. They think they are family. They are together. Where is they. You know the ghetto brothers the peacemakers what have you. And they come together they have the machos to be together to be strong. And I think that this is where we should work and not try to just try to work with this straight up Watson. Your general you make a post here on some of these people some. I've been listening with great interest. Let me throw one to Charlie Charlie. Most of the guys here are just that. Most of the guys you're dressed quite like warriors. And I hear you talking about your war lords and your work Council. Who's the enemy. Establishment down that is where it all

happens. Well let's talk about some of the politics of this. We don't want is for some in. Oh sorry sorry we can't hear. Just like you got who. How you doing. You got some ideas. So you guys I'm just going to let you do it. No different. I mean years ago. Our window closing on. So the symbols don't don't mean that you feel like words. It's all we are we always say that's what I want to tell you. The area around the Bronx now at this very moment is the policeman. See are a lot of people around the area see. They look at us as black and

Puerto Rican. Shoot me and that's what they look at to understand. We try to communicate with them. You try to communicate with them right now and you just try to get to be one of my brothers had been out not too long ago five of them following the man and the guy got no should know is. And then if we do something we'll be wrong. Yes this is a warrior thing. Yes it is. And we're here to defend our brothers and sisters and good people like them the very racist man you're going to communicate communicate. Man if you're going to strike or if you're going to strike back at. All. You feel like the truth. Do you feel a the peacemaking that we saw taking place in that movie that we all watched together is solid. Like are these guys put together. Not really. Not really. Why not. If you're going to be all. We're out of time. A lot

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