S/M: One Foot Out of the Closet

The following program is about sadomasochism. It contains material suited only for mature viewers. The people and events are real. There are no actors. There is some nudity and other content which may be objectionable. Extreme viewer discretion is advised. Some. Of.

The images we've just seen are mostly commercial. They're meant to convey an ominous world of power dominance and submission. We respond to them but they seem pretty removed from most of us. I know stylized marketing images is very definitely a reality but we're about to show you may shock you. It's a glimpse of that very real world very real people in it. It. Was my god I thought. That was no Madison Avenue fantasy. It's part of a way of life its practitioners

call S&M sadomasochism others call it sick or pathological or whatever you call it. It's an exercise of power. The relinquishing of control of someone else often in a sexual context. Bondage and discipline rituals symbols signals and to degree pain are all part of the world of S&M world it's much larger than you think. Tonight will give you a look at what it really is not just the myths. It's still a very secretive world. Many of the people and some of them sadomasochism has a recorded history in the seventeen hundreds of practice as did count over a hundred years ago. In fact serious social scientists and researchers like him in 1954. The story of a published

controversial tale of a woman who willingly becomes a slave giving him her story in college English courses. Of course the story of fiction but it is kind of a fantasy movie. There are many like it throughout the Bay Area. The people who use these rooms don't have hair. This is Tom. He's a claims man for an insurance company. He lives in a quiet suburb. He's an amateur photographer skier racquetball player and scuba diver. But there's another part of Tom's life that's very important parts of his house are set up for what are called scenes or sessions. The sexual games of s.m.m in Tom's case is what's known as the dominant and willing woman is the submissive.

It's a matter of controlling someone. It's a matter of being in a position of authority or power. It's a sexual gratification. When I have a woman over who I've been with before and who is into the scene as I am I will usually sit down have a drink talk for a while after the conversation I will usually tell her to strip. I'll usually tie her hands you know together behind her back or I will tie her hands to her side. OK ask her the preliminaries I'll either take her into the bedroom. Or I'll take you into the play room after placing her in a number of different bondage positions. Spread eagle on the bed spread eagle on the wall suspended by her wrist. Or just tied up and fried. We go around. I work on her. Usually the scene ends up on the bed

in. Perhaps a spread eagle or just with ankles knees and hands upon this type of thing. Sometimes the gag sometimes not quite frequently. We will make love in the bedroom. I have a queen sized bed. I have straps attached to each one of the four corners of the bed in my play by play room if you will. I have two large hooks in the wall that we can use for either a tether or for suspension. I have two briefcases and a cupboard full of various paraphernalia. The briefcases contain rope webzine additional straps clamps paddle collars gags. Breast pumps and so on. Many of us who are into the scenery are your average

American. We're not crazy who's going to go out and rape somebody or tie somebody up. Hang on porch. That's really not what we're into. The people who advocate Essam as a way of life are not confined to one group or sex. Tom is a member of Gemini a group of 50 or so heterosexual men and women the men are dominant the women submissive most are white and middle class between 30 and 40 are living normal lives with normal relationships. Outside there are some activities. Then there's the church with upwards of 100 members. It's also heterosexual only in the same church the women act as a dominance sometimes known as mistresses and the men are submissive. Many people involved in Assume can and do switch roles for a year and a half I was submissive and then I found out I could be dominant and dumb enough about turn after months. Never once.

There's also a lesbian at Sam group called Sam watt named after town in the story of Sam walk claim someone to 200 members the people involved in as Sam don't always agree on definitions. Some like Tom call their activity being for bondage and discipline. They say as Sam is more intense. The lines are blurry and mainly semantic and most agree that power dominance submission and consent are the key factors. I guess the main thing that I would like for the people in the audience who haven't seen it to know and understand is yes and ask to be consentual. But people have to agree to what's happening when he's innocent. And if it's something other than that it's great for it's boredom or something. People have to know what is happening and that's what makes it that's that's when you change that's how the power of the power. That's one

way of caring for your partner of of it. It's another person you're putting their hands and their capabilities and their caring. That's the basic misunderstanding and confusion in fact completely different. It's like lumping heterosexual intercourse with right. Time because the person is responsive. I can have a marvelous time and usually. Their. Feedback and it's thoroughly tonight.

For the heterosexuals and some homosexuals involved in S&M it's generally a very secretive life full of concern that others might find out. Robin was a member of the same church. I have two lives. I have the life of a straight conservative person who works at the office 8 to 5 and has a very quiet life. And then there's my S&M life but I have to keep them separate. And it can be very difficult. What are you afraid. Afraid of people finding out about us number one understand what feel threatened by it it might hurt my relationship or my friendship with them. I'm more afraid of their reactions than anything else. No one in the world we talked to said they came from homes where they were beaten. Children do something most of them talk about having as Sam type fantasies starting at a young age. Fantasies they eventually acted on people like Robin or Tom would generally only see his next door neighbors or office mates. There is one image we do have S&M that is public though at least for those of us living in big cities.

According to most people involved in S M there are far fewer homosexuals than heterosexual participants. The gay community in San Francisco mostly the men certainly the most open about their predominantly gay Castro Street areas. Overt signs of S M orientation are hard to find. Leather clothes are necessarily S.M. garb but there are some symbolic things subtle and identify the wearers being into S M will show you some of those symbols later. The gay community also has plenty of stores where they can buy their paraphernalia. There are also a number of bars on San Francisco's street that cater to a crowd. Their dominance and submissives are tops and bottoms as they're known in the gay world. Talk about what kind of specific activities they're into and then often go to a session. There are also some private gay sex clubs where activities do go on. So usually heterosexual S.M. people will

go into a gay bar. Besides the groups you mention private clubs are really the only place the non gay world can be open outside of their homes. There are two major clubs in the Bay Area. The chateau name also taken from the story of a few months ago we were there for opening day when they were still working on some of their play rooms or as they like to call them dramatically dungeons. The phones are ringing almost nonstop. Right. That is definitely that is what we are then. Yes very very high heels and all the good things that go on the road except. The available times are very scarce at this moment. 7:30 your new state. You are submissive and I will see you at 7:30.

They were also getting in some of their session equipment. That we have a standard for this in their mouth strap them in and they really can't say much. These are fantastic. OK. Very. Good. The chateau is a branch of a similar club in Los Angeles. Both are run by Jim Hill you're also known assert James chateau has the latest equipment and is designed and set up for all types of S M customers. There are about six women and a couple of men working as both dominance and submissive technically no conventional sexual contact takes place which makes the shadow's activities the customers clearly get something out of what's going on. Pretty intense. Oh yes I do.

What is it about about it that you are really into it is just kind of a. Relaxing. That's relaxing. Over the years yes. You were just pressured. But you're back where were you from. I would. Tell you it says almost all his customers are men and 70 percent of them are submissive in the session for the club 600 active members charge for the room and service is $60 an hour. There's also another bay area club the backdrop which claims some fifteen hundred members and keeps track of them by computer. Both clubs have similar setups with game rooms and both are profitable. Going up to 15 sessions a day with customers you have a stereotypical customer. Describe the raid.

Best people in the world. Yeah. What. Well let's put it this way. How about a judge from a. Supreme Court of California Supreme Court. No another state. Doctors lawyers bank presidents steamship. Captains. Psychiatry psychologists professors. Movie directors. I still workers people who do sessions for money like us and professionals who work the backdrop of Chateau are pretty common in the world. Most of them practise S.M. in their private lives as well so their work gives them a chance to make money and do what they like doing. You are into this in your private life. Yes for 13 years. Do you have a family. I have a husband. I don't have children I met my husband at the chateau. He was looking down. Professionals or only in the community. There are.

Many of us. A lot of us who have not come out of the closet. They say that their fantasies are wrong. They're bad. But they are so. Involved in them that they don't know anyone that they can talk to. Which is the big thing. And so they go to professional or to a club. Or in a fantasy. There are quite a few of us and. That's throughout the film. Male and female gay and straight. That's the Mac dominance although the majority of people involved in S&M started out as submissive. Will learn the ropes. Professionals advertise in X-rated newspapers like The Spectator. Yes. They can be quite amusing to read. They're found in the decide column. Here's one that says. You want to be submissive. You need your punishment. Grovel to your phone. And all.

The stuff. A lot of the phone numbers are in Berkeley where there's a whole group of professional mistresses female dominance there women who operate in their homes on blocks much like this in the Berkeley flatlands below the University of California. They also charge about $60 an hour for a session. They're concerned about their identity because of possible police activity although they do say no conventional sex takes place. Why is it you think people come to you for sessions. Well that's really hard to say because everybody is different. I see a lot of executive types and this is a kind of education for them. I wondered a while ago I was a whole bunch of people from. And also I was wondering why so many of these companies from one of them. It is perfectly conceivable that the bus boy 10 years ago or so is currently a vice president in charge of something or other which is a lot more dominant than a bus. It does an adequate job as vice president but maybe not that dominant.

Consequently when comes into question every personality has a positive or negative. Every character has positive or negative. And in order for a person to function in society he has to balance both sides. All right if he's dominant business he will be undoubtedly usually in this city in this city. If he's submissive to a boss in business he will be dominant in the city. He said this he got home to his wife and you got a overbearing wife. He will be dominant here. The gay magazines also advertise professionals who are a big part of that scene as well. There is a movement to combine all of these groups gay and straight professional and nonprofessional. This is the back room of the five twenty seven club restaurant on Bryant Street in San Francisco. Once a month an organization called Janice meets here. Janice is the umbrella at Sam organization and some members of all the other clubs and groups belong to Janice. The organization pushes identity awareness and group acceptance. The meetings which were allowed to film usually

draw between 80 and 100 people young to middle aged and they cover topics like who you should tell. Safety and Health Tips for how to sessions on bondage humiliation or all the other games that make up as Sam activities. Those activities are usually very ritualized kinds of dominance and submission scenes that often involve bondage humiliation spankings whippings sometimes even shaving or piercing. So sir thank you sir and thank you for the tools or toys as they're called are complex and very limited only by imagination. Game rooms where they're used to put together with great care. These are our wrist restraints basically means that the upper arm with the rings to attach a chain or rope. This is a slave collar. My own design I made it myself I'm very proud of it locks in place it.

It cannot be removed and if it has the rings around that side you can. Yes. Yeah. And attached to their. Plates. Yes with the dastard it is particularly nasty and I guess it's in there. Well someone gave me the whip. Man. It's hot looking here we would take the skin right off of you if you used it on. If it were used on you is it used. Yeah I use it very much the same way I do this when just sort of brushing up against somebody or taking just a Tippin and using those are four steps. And I used to hold the netball in place when I'm piercing to make sure that the needle goes in and comes out where I wanted him to go. A lot of a lot of what is here is strictly for the visual and dramatic impact though as

you undoubtedly know saliva is also for the actual stimulation. I believe that this room exists because I've been here. But I can I can imagine people saying I don't believe the police telling me about these things is true. So far from. What. Well. What can I say. I mean it is used. There are any number of people. In this city and. I even get referrals from outside the city who really do seek out and want this kind of sexual expression and this sort of activity and. The room is fully used very often besides the specialty stores and homemade ingenuity hardware stores and other mundane places provide ideas resumed toys. The other day I was so I was standing next to someone who plays flute and I noticed I had to fight she had to hold this music coming out from under his arm and I looked at it and it was it would make a fantastic paddle I'll have to get the music store and buy one of those. Devices

are where you find them. Anybody ever look at you. Strange. Extra Large. You know they just have a dog I guess I don't care. The scenes are sessions themselves that take place in these rooms are a mixture of intensity and controlled environment. Fantasy and action and affection invention. Sex is not always a part of the session. You can have very good S&M without any sexual expression. It is a very highly charged emotional. Mind frame that people get into. And I think a lot of people do eroticize that I like but it doesn't have to happen. Nor is there any more than there has to be leather or there has to be pain or even any restraint or. Exchange of power that is what a consensual exchange that's happening then you've got.

To see clearly defined with one partner dominating controlling sometimes punishing and humiliating the other. Your you me me me me. Explain what. I will. Substitute. It was great.

Because it's a maximum of three days I would say. Maybe we're reading. No no a scene can be a scenario is full of fantasy and role playing as a film or play. This is part of the scene between Don and submissive Jeff with Don explaining what's happening here is that. This phase of the scene he's basically presenting himself to me offering himself as a slave and I'm at least symbolically here am inspecting him and deciding whether or not I consider him worthwhile as a piece of property. This is a very important part of the scene placing the slave collar around his neck which snaps into place with a lock. I've heard many slaves say that this to them when they hear that click that that is

the moment which they really become a slave is one we would call. Me. So please this would be the communication there. He was he was practically asking me to humiliate him. He he was. He was letting me know that that was something he wanted. Your pain. At this point the communication becomes. It's a way for me to check that everything is OK and that he really is digging what's happening it's also a way of

moving into the next thing in this case giving him an advantage on the ground. It's definitely a mixture of what you would normally consider your typical pleasure. With bits of pain gradually being introduced. This particular position. With tension on the arm tends to create numbness and circulation. It's a good thing to keep checking to make sure that his hands are not turning cold. The bigger the better. This is basically a time when we're going to take a break. But you'll notice that there's an attempt to relax without really coming out of the roles the roles and communication remain intact even though we're.

Really not playing the roles very heavily to the extent possible we're taking what has been a fantasy for the two of us for a long time and making it a reality. Or even in creating a reality that we can later use to incorporate into our fantasies after the session. Or you can as well. Thank you for asking this late to help is a way I have of communicating and testing. How much pain he likes and his attorney I can tell from the tone of voice whether he's really excited or really reaching the point where it's going to become too much. Least a stroke every. Minute of. The whole thing is a way of coming down and being affectionate trying to express in this way not so painfully. The intensity of feelings that the two of us have have accumulated

during the session. Fantasy and communication are major parts of the S&M world. Clothes and accessories both help create the fantasy and convey certain messages. Again yes and there's a key and handkerchief keys on the left side mean your dominant or a master on the right signifies a submissive or slave left and right system goes for any accessories. On the handkerchiefs the parties like heavy S&M they practice piercing. Of course there are any number of coats floating around different so it's really hard to be sure. There are also different uniforms that help enhance the fantasy complete with authentic metal stripes and bars in the heterosexual world. One club also uses a key to identify members. This one is worn around the neck. Extensive wardrobes are also available at the clubs for a variety of fantasies and some groups have nights where members come as Spanish Inquisitor's cowboys and indians or Victorian thieves

scenario in mind. Clothing shops lend themselves to these fantasies or favorite haunts of the crowd. The basic costume though is usually early Charles Adams for the straights with the women wearing black stockings and long black dresses and heels. An early Marlon Brando for the gay S M world. The cottage industry sprung up around the activity San Francisco supports a number of accessory stores and bars. There are also magazines in the mail order business is booming. Person's imagination is basically the only limit. And a lot of them is fantasy in most cases the roles of master and slave dominant submissive and when people leave the game room the bedroom terms like toys and game and play room don't mean people aren't serious about Asim but a large number even have regular sex and relationships for a few the story of is a literal model for life.

Is called. Beautiful acres in rural Northern California about 100 miles from San Francisco. Treat the main house as a game room. There's another cabin up the hill and several outside staging areas. Christen him George he's a blacksmith by trade and makes many of his own toys and sells others as Sam outlets set up for people to stay a few days and have sessions and communion with nature for George. It's more serious than that. George's girlfriend and his personal slave is willingly signed a slave's oath proudly displayed on their wall. She serves him and calls a master. And I'm going George do seem to relate like any normal couple part of the time even arguing occasionally. The similarity the normal relationships and they're just not.

George often lends a knock out as a submissive to others as he did the one Berkeley mistress who visited the day we were there. I don't know if you have been a part of it is that I don't know. 0 0 0 0 George also has an ocean that are not slaves that sound a little outside the realm of sexual expression. Well I guess a while back about a month three months ago I almost bought one for a thousand. But like I say she and her mother wouldn't let her go because she didn't feel fair enough I guess but like a non-con now I would take accept three thousand for her because of her value. She's got skills and stuff. The market value per se that are far great.

Her to me than to be sold to someone else. How much do you think the slave for now if you want to get a woman. Possibly you get one for maybe about say a thousand dollars and cost again. Where would you go. You and barley go out of the United States like Japan they're women they're looking for a sponsor in the United States. That's always a willing kind of thing. Oh yeah these are you know they're looking for like say the ones that are out of the United States are looking for a sponsor and they're willing to take any sponsorship they can get. And quite a few Mar looking into the BND world and some are even looking into us and them world because that's it's a good legitimate sponsorship. You've got to control her say she is far safer with me her say as a slave than she would be if she was under a marriage contract. Right because anything happens to her or anything per se anybody should threaten her life. She don't have to worry about. She got me to come down on them.

George says his arrangement with a knock is perfectly legal. He says he even knows the local sheriff who helped him build his roof. George seems to enjoy flaunting a set up. He takes a knock into downtown Ukiah regularly on a leash or in this case to the local Albertson's supermarket in a horse's bit. They almost seem to enjoy playing it up and don't mind the reaction. Because we've. Put up. With. It. Right. That's my number one. Local shopper seemed oblivious dumbstruck are just used to Georgian and. Far from being embarrassed by this kind of treatment and feels more protected. That sort of relationship. Their arrangement may be unusual but there are others whose S&M does spill over to other parts of their lives.

Colleen who is my wife is also my personal slave is a registered slave. She is registered as private personal property with the auditor and tax assessor of County of Los Angeles. I would say that very bunch puts me into the same person. Now here is a personal slave. She knows she is not registered because she hasn't finished her training. The name she has she will be. How do you feel about being a piece of personal property. Very proud of. Her stuff. Balance. Balance to weigh. Down the side. Down and submissive side. So after a while. Nationally I think put. The best. People into this special place I have that in my. Life. And that's important. She does have her own choice. She has her own choice to be a slave or not to be period. I mean that's total freedom. What else do you get out of being a piece of personal property.

I'm rather proud of it. I. Am not putting myself in the category of being out there among the people I enjoy my life. I am a submissive person. I express it completely in the game. In my everyday living. I express it periodically. Would you like to walk around all the time with a with a collar on and be in a situation constantly where someone is telling you what to do. Well as far as money. Yes as far as the situation of being told what to do. The environment makes it difficult for me to. Feel good about it. If it was to be the ideal environment. Yes it got to a point where my awesome life was my life. I was practically living with this guy. I had very little life of my own because I wanted it that way. And I spent most of my time with him. They weren't always in the actual slave

master role but our relationship was such that he wanted to be in control of the relationship and the Essen relationship as well. The roles NSM aren't always so clearly defined we were told the best kept secret in Ashram is who was really dominant. The caller is a news about to next. Is it connects both of us. Like she's not just subject to me I must object to pleasing her and making her know the dominance and submission are common in most relationships although not to such a degree as in a sim. But the thing that may bother us the most about the now Sam image and the thing that's the least understandable to the rest of us is the whole idea of enjoying pain. And pain is often times involved. Many people are into a certain level of pain receiving pain. There are also people who are into giving pain up to a

certain limit. In 99 percent of the cases the person giving pain and the person receiving pain have got limits. I wish they would go up to him and you see the limit is set by the person receiving the pain set how they will take a spanking whipping up to the point where the dividing line between pleasure and pain becomes very definite and it's no longer pleasure it is pain to hurt someone beyond the point where it's place. It is not a pleasure the pain always turns me on. Now it's got me excited and we would have sex right after that I was always much more excited than I ever was. If there's pain it's it's that wonderful razor's edge between pain and pleasure that marvelous marvelous razor's edge which in that that the point at which one is not certain if it's pain or pleasure therefore it's both therefore it's an incredible high. That's what we're all striving for you see in say Damascus has to

stay on that razor's edge as long as possible. Dr. Evelyn Gandow head of the University of California sexual counseling clinic in San Francisco says pain is relative. People. In their ordinary love making scratch or bite. Are often not aware that they're doing that and they're not intending to inflict pain. They're not trying to make somebody else suffer. And they're really surprised. Sometime when they realize that there's a mark. And that they were that ardent in their lovemaking. And one of the reasons is that. During sexual arousal your threshold of pain is raised. You don't feel pain. Thank you Mr. S and M people all say that the pain they give and take is done in an erotic context. They're also careful they say to make sure that their activity safe. Thank you mistress. The area across here that the abdomen has so many vital organs that it really is not safe to hit anybody in that area.

That can be hit certainly from the nipples can be hit gently on their genitals can be hit gently across somebody's bottom and. Is probably the best place in a place that is most likely to be erotic. Yes things do get too intense there agreed upon signal to stop the action. You're everything is OK you're comfortable with what's happening in you but only certain things really need to stop or take a break or something needs to be adjusted. When you're coming down. Check you. Yes sir. The idea of a keyword is used quite frequently. It is a word which would normally not come up in a conversation or during a session or during lovemaking like a. Rutabaga. The word sadomasochistic does conjure up images of pain unwilling and unrelenting. This time he pulls a real sadists and masochists

aren't interested in their partners pleasure pain NSM is a more esoteric concept Moser is a licensed social worker who is doing his doctoral thesis on Asim will be the first American study on a subject that really hasn't had much scrutiny despite its growing popularity. First of all it's very complex it's not a simple concept. Basically S.A. is on is in Iraq is having an ironic enjoyment of pain pain made an ironic pain that is that exists in your sex life and those pains can be physical they can be psychological involve humiliation they involve things that you would think about as normally causing pain you think and things that might not necessarily be considered painful. If someone would bite your neck right now it would hurt if you were in a sexual situation and you were turned on and so on and was biting your neck. You might not hurt or might be a mixture of pain and pleasure.

And we know physiologically that when you're sexually excited your pain threshold goes up so it would appear to be painful to you and on and on and on a rouse state when in fact the not too painful might be pleasurable when you are asked all this does not mean people don't get into trouble. Any time a person has total control over someone else extensionally dangerous. Some people would say that you that you're abusing power. I would only challenge him to talk with me for five minutes to learn how very difficult just technically precise. I know what I'm doing and how careful I am to make sure that I'm not raping someone. There are some very bad practitioners of this art form just as there are any art form. So yeah it just happened that's really unfortunate. You saw what happened in our session. I would say that in the crowd I ran with that rather typical of the people are very sensitive and careful and

concerned about what the other person is experiencing. Well there are some sick ones around and that's what the interview is for. I've been involved in the indie scene myself since I was 14 and I've studied it extensively since 1954 and the people in the scene very much on picking up and you can fairly well pick out the sick ones. Yes some community is close knit. Someone gets a bad reputation. Word gets around. More to stay away. Especially true here in the bars on Folsom Street in the warehouse. But a few years ago there were a rash of murders involving falls from street bar people. Those who go to the bar say such things could happen anywhere. The murders were an exception to the rule. S&M they say is in the sexual realm. Murder is something else altogether. The murders didn't help the sinister image any more than dirty movies do. Some street in X-rated movies are the only place to find S M images. Madison Avenue Hollywood Paris and other image boosters also seem a little obsessed with

S&M bondage leather even whips and chains have been regular features for years on record albums fashion magazines coffee table photography books and legitimate films. Lately there seems to be more and more such images around store windows like the display of S&M especially mixed with fashion such displays of range from Bloomingdale's to Bengals in New York. This is the window of New York West the San Francisco fashion shop a few months ago here in this toy store a new game called Dungeons and Dragons has some particularly interesting images. All sorts of advertising seems to gravitate towards the theme in some way. Even the formerly saccharin world of greeting cards. This is Pete Dalton a highly respectable sounds Isco bookstore and one of the largest in town here in the science fiction section against time the very popular Gore series by author John Norman. All the covers I can mention the stories are classic As Sam. Botho shrugged. He's teaching them how to be slaves. The training of a slave girl like the

training of an animal tends to be a grueling task calling for patience time good judgement and sternness. These numerous latter qualities possessed and plenty many were the evenings particularly in the beginning when Elizabeth with return to my quarters in tears stinging from the slave go. A few months ago Brentano's book store featured in their windows what to some is an S M Bible hardcore. And the nine and a half weeks a novel about a slave master relationship was recently on the racks at Safeway S M is also now a regular feature in magazines formerly known for their more conventional approach to sex. Does all this mean becoming more acceptable. Well not necessarily. Only the images it seems when the subject itself is treated and portrayed in Paris in the funny light. It was born. You're making too much noise. I can't help it. You heard it here you're going to hot tonight. Better

yourself for finding out how much damage too much damage done to discipline. Yes yes yes. And then there's this opening sequence from a public TV show called Secrets. You went to now. Taking. Our you down what's your name. Jim are shocked. And horrified with a gag or gag and swings in everything Listen I could get my whole thing here.

Well one chain around the right foot model on the left the knee jerk the upside down the front of a mirror. I said dear God if you got to treat me like this I certainly don't want to watch you are going to win this billboard for Rolling Stones album appeared on a downtown Los Angeles street feminist groups hit the roof. It was a long simmering reaction to what they said was violence and pornography in the media and advertising directed against women. They even formed a group to protest images that include Dr. Diana Russel's associate professor of sociology at Mills College in Oakland a respected and well-known feminist and author of the book The Politics of rape. I think it's very unhealthy and it's part of a power relationship. And of course in that power relationship it's usually females to play the masochistic role and then the sadistic role. So I think it's a role playing in the bedroom.

And as a feminist I'm very much against the traditional role playing. I see feminism and s and is totally incompatible. I think it's a very politically understandable why this name is becoming fashionable now. I think that's another way of saying that women want to be oppressed and want to be abused because primarily it is women and the so-called masochistic role. It's not the fact that I'm a woman. It's a fact that I'm a person who needs to be submissive because right now I know a lot of submissive men who enjoy exactly the same things I do when I was in the city. And women's liberation has nothing to do with it. When they do it voluntarily Well I see that as an expression of a great deal of hostility to men. That should be examined it's sometimes fairly easy to see where it comes from Given all the abuse that women have had.

Dr. Russell isn't the only one who objects to ice and then. When a group marched in San Francisco Gay Day parade they were booed and hissed by other gays subject to S M is too strange and bad for the gay image. Others are concerned with the use of Nazi images in Assam. There are certain traditional settings that were archetypes for an exchange of power. The Nazi fantasy is a big one with a lot of people. It's simply an erotic turn and has nothing to do with their politics. Most of the people that are into Nazi fantasies are probably good liberal Democrats. Some psychiatrists also look at Sam with concern. Dr Gordon Baumbach or is assistant professor of psychiatry at the University of California which is San Francisco Medical Center. I guess the American Psychiatric Association. Considers. As a sexual disorder. Behavior in which. It is necessary as the customary mode of sexual behavior to. Either inflict pain or.

Enact a pretense of inflicting pain. And conversely for masochism where it is. Necessary for a sexual relationship to experience pain or warrant an act one of that kind of behavior that's also. Logical. I think it would generally be considered by most psychiatrists as as a. Psychiatric disorder and tortured myself with that kind of navel gazing. What good is it. It's very fulfilling to me. You know it's. I think if everyone was careful and concerned about their sex partners that what they did that made sure the danger would be. With. You people feeling fulfilled in life and not being bored themselves I'm not. It ranges from the same severe impulse disorders in which the

person cannot control aggressive and sadistic feelings to. Less less severe disorders or to people who are very low self esteem or worried about. Being abandoned. Pain on the person who they expect is going to abandon. This part of the. Expected outcome of the relationship. I don't see it as a. Disease there are. Aren't. There people who can't be around. Who find it difficult to be aroused unless they're either being. Punished. On. Some type and. I think the terminology is discipline. And. That is sexually arousing. If it's the only thing that helps him become sexually aroused. And that's the only time you're sexually aroused. You probably have. A problem with people who are. Engaged in it because they have agreed. The partners know what's going to happen.

And. That's their free choice. Dr Guinn Bell says she sometimes gets patients who have fantasies fairly common experience and are worried about them. She doesn't often get asked him practitioners though because she says they don't see their activity as a problem needing help. Despite all the controversy as Sam has reached such proportions some city officials not only accept that they deal with it as part of their job. Recently for instance San Francisco's chief medical examiner Boyd Stephens gave one of several lectures at the ramrod NSM bar. Stevens talked about what kinds of S&M paraphernalia were safe and what wasn't. He even gave a slide show. There is indication that there's increased activity in the SNL groups and that some of the things are starting to do a little more commonly can lead to intruders. So what do you want which is going to be your message here tonight. Well our main message tonight is not to try to scare anyone but to make people who are interested in knowledgeable more knowledgeable so they can protect themselves and help protect others. We're

seeing an increased number of people using bondage. Everybody. And so our concern is just to protect against this fixation suffocation just of this nature those are not very common. But we want to be sure that they don't become. Stevens like others who worked with VSAM community recognize that S.M. is a real and growing phenomenon. No one has exact figures on just how many people are involved in Assam but there are some rough percentages floating around. The study's very depending on the definition but it's between about 50 percent and about 5 percent depending on your definition of the general population audience and well the 5 percent is an erotic arousal from pain. And you look at Kenzie Kinsey's shows 50 percent who have a have a definite end or some erotic response to biting. In my way of thinking the BND community within a barrier is like an iceberg. There are a few people who are into it primarily on a

professional basis and they are very visible but the rest of us are submerged. Why do you think we see such a violent negative reaction to things like sadomasochism. In the general. Populous. I think. There's a little bit of a masochistic. Background thinking on almost every mind you no one wants to face that. So. Hearing about it. Becomes rather and sensational kind of. People can. Look at. You don't want to see but they do want to. Yes Sam isn't just a San Francisco phenomenon. Other big cities have similar communities and S and newspapers have ads from all over the country. There is a lot of speculation about us and some questions that just aren't answerable. Why is it surfacing now. Exactly what does it mean and what does it tell us about our society. There's been no controlled studies yet on the subject although some are planned. Perhaps those will tell us more.

In the meantime though we know that S.M. is real and growing to a certain degree coming out of the closet. And because of that we want to tell you what SMI really is what lies behind the images. How are you doing now. Friends. Thank you for letting me live there. You liked it didn't you for this regulation or your masters where you know there are certain keys. Spread your legs. Do you like to take your master's pain. Yes sir. Rumors are to be mistaken. Yes.