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building anton gunn single once again welcome to word on words and welcome john lewis backed two word on words related to last last week we yeah we weren't talking about this great book a lot and with the wind that's a picture of john lewis and another transformation john you have here there still is a handsome young roma you are today and was much younger than most is a german i did hit wall and a few pounds lighter you were worried might be doing but a little wiser for for use we talked last week about the courage i said the courage and commitment it took to be part of all this movement we talked about some of the beatings you took
some of syria trips you made to jail and prison in order to change the corrupt races segregated south example a third location we talked about we left off at that night when ball con artist of kidnap the free was the ruling in jail to come back to the tennessee lyon dump them you went to the whole of a frightened blackmail and will remember that and the freedom riders their names were all over the news across the country and these people were afraid of you but they took un and fed you and then you call diane nash and the question was whether bull connor would be able by taking you from birmingham back to tennessee lyon get rid of you kill the freedom ride but once again as you said last week you
could not let alone totaled nonviolence and so diane nash who was running the operation out of fisk university in nashville sent one car for at a view that date with a driver those eight with a drum and we all got in a call with alanis with that displease these le carre they restored it down the rolled toward birmingham and song a news report came on saying that the freedom riders are by international and as we continue down this highway to run hamp and a set of bullet and please u p i's my reporting of the freedom riders on my way back to birmingham and a call a more primal bill we saw a concern about that i wouldn't know what was happening we get back to birmingham we tried it to board a bus and in the taliban has shipped eleven of the people by train and they were they waited by we are an obvious hit about runoff in the young student who'd been involved in a city move in a
mansion and they were there waiting for us and we went and connected with him around for sure what was one of the leaders did in birmingham and i would never forget this be tragic to the board a bus and as basra made a class a statement it's a long line and everything and it sounded all the name of ocd it was it was a raytheon number whatever among them are with one third aboard a bus and no one would drive abbas has done that time a different attorney general rob candidate into the midst of negotiating with renowned one time but there are other candidates said about as a global struggle in atlanta greyhound in helena by castro's in incrementally so the southeast and in robertson it became so desperate i guess is that we'll let me speak to disagree a comedian
anyway the attorney general make the race riot and a negotiated an agreement that we will leave birmingham the set of the morning and we believe are really running thirty am we boarded a bus that was pulled me a plane fly on a lot of buzz and a patrol car over so many miles and most of the freedom riders will deliver a tie and it just took a nap on a bus and end the moment when we got to rig among them about in thirty eight pm maybe destroy it down the steps but it got to a journalistic eerie strangest thing ever seen and i've been in a bus station in a minute i was so quiet were so orderly whistle piece it has seen is that he was not in the movement and a mom always thought in the most arid his mom came out of nowhere the stubby to members of the press and you have a camera appearance on a pet you in real trouble and beige
tubby in the freedom riders other than the members of the press and i remember a young black woman this estate over for dinner to help them with women in a mechanical through white woman trying to get an epidemic and a bike at a house that he could drag because so usually there's a limit unintelligible like so why couldn't ride inside taxes yet issued july tenth of a big oval a little dry she wanted to get there young women out of the way of them all in a time of the young women that are in an old you with their holiday shows and you know the woman game to predict a fictitious samantha well budget and those women among i don't know the new model will overlook we haven't gotten weaker than it was a year it was it was a day to me the one i
was so coveted to talk about is one is a date any one of us can fully remembered because then at least part of the day a truck thats right on it get done well outside our house this is a way to get into it here is ok although we will offer better for that day and for older we played really and i think the nation is better than i said i knew what your about anew on nonviolent but i never wrote another about it for myself and then a moment came i mean if i'd seen what was about to happen to me i would have responded in about were i mean i didn't
i had no chance to do that but i thought may many times about those of you who knew what was coming and still willing to suffer that you tell at one point in the book about a moment a crisis moment for you when you almost when you almost responded in defense of someone who's about who was suffering you know that moment the book when you said there was an attack then you almost you almost moot almost reacted to look away here we're like oh well what were the better self but about a sofa go much better serve the veil and and i think it's that quiet voice i think is about hold a spirited history
sam a peace peace deal because i think if i had given him a violent the opposition we'll use that to justify almost anything for nonviolence was the right thing to do and it was a practical thing you know we can handle union than sweden in a weapon within the hair while bodies we had was in our bodies as living with this to the truth as only thing we have and when i look back on it on a period in these young people and some instances just a young children are some malls mission in those high school children that kept coming kept coming senate want to be part of this effort those college he is when people all little again like i was told among other fathers don't get in trouble oh go to jail over global we had a perfect custom condition we have
to vote against a whole lot like leadership from canada so was it easy but it was the right thing to do but leal by the principles and the philosophy and the discipline of the dugout if you read this book you've made so much history i say that we talk about one moment in montgomery i mean you phrase that threat so many different times in so many different places but beyond that beyond the movement not really be on the movement because you're your it was your involvement movement that put you into in to work other places and other and at other times you were elected head of the student non violent or think that you're rich you're unsure whether you
know as the hill musician you find yourself in the oval office with president kennedy and london became whistler wilkens with a philip randolph bum talk about that session and that transition goes some way you you you from time to time you had been a selected leader of a group now you're head of an organization and there were new challenges and new responsibilities i remember oh so well i was like to share this true love our corn a committee alone one day and a week later i was in the oval office with president kennedy and so the leaders of the movement never never been there are modern respected president kennedy is his leadership his candidacy for president in nineteen sixty and spike and in this meeting
that it took place after the sit ins the freedom ride after the campaign in birmingham have made errors had been shot here in mississippi a fuller and i spoke up for the group he was lol is the dean of black leadership he said in his baritone voice to the president has amassed a president and mosses rss i will want them or to washington a detail by the bottom layer to president kennedy he didn't figure on the future of the candidates are not everybody's favorite washington wannabe is violent disorder he would never get a civil rights bill through the congress and mr randolph responded and said mr president is a bit more awake peaceful long fall on protests and i think grilling candidates since the us around office producers about it and present anderson well that they will have problems and i have probably a problem and the meeting continual over warm for know
we came out of what how long a mouse as a group but we had a very good meeting with president kennedy and when contemplating some non violent action in washington may be more to washington and we left the white house and soon go to new york to help me you know to six leaders that we did the first one in july ninety six victory the lead annual and issued a call for the march on washington roy wilkins was not your favorite long that might take when nasa will come out of the devil really honest to the non violent wing of the movement of a mass movement i think he saw because his organization was the law does that he knew who was bass i remember him in that meeting literally coming in order another peep out and people appear to be in front of them there's a before dr king came in in you've made a statement us
in effect any photo morning cain was political naive or something to that effect you really didn't understand what was happening but the picking him at jimmy and the packaging came in and meet him the reverend abernathy so walking around the table said are you here so ron i haven't ever had to leave you only wanted to hear the organization of james holman was there with me from snake he had to really go some other than a wood for the young athlete be at rest and was there with a full round up so has left the six of us just to hear it's an organization that was dolen that needed that we issued a call for the march on washington every gap to a labor leader to three church leaders who form a job oh quite religious and labor leaders they issued a call with us so which you know was a cold water washed you know john you mentioned and we didn't talk about last week but you mention there were some white leaders there i think
back over the story you tell here an eye on people like poor products come to run people like well sort of continent people like will campbell come to mind and then you write about their importance in the movement but i'm struck by also and when people i grew up with that are all occasion will count sought to work take interaction you won't know you wouldn't go of that scene where will is is almost completely down to that saying to john you know if you're you know i really taken hold here and we'd you should not march you should not mark and your answer was less is said to be one of those visits use they have a stubborn streak the mother is upset have avoided if it's not that but it's when i believe in something i thought was right
that the key uses of the time is always right to do wright i thought it was right for some alleged in wills said does if you want on a saturday in nashville that would allow people killed the job who don't finance cars school and in a rush you know torture with disorderly conduct so that's okay we can stop we had been alone there were times when you challenge dr gail when dr king challenging when you said would enable our way he understood that i guess you know there were times when he disagreed with their strategy well the pick a bit of those were with us from time to time but he he understood i think at that we were impatient with the time for change of leon we had a sense of the year and the talented and what we wanted to bring about
change we we we do away us at the march on washington and that the best speech assembly one of freedom we we want it now you tell us to wait you tell us to be patient we don't want our freedom gradually but we wanted to hear anyone in that and some people said it was militants there was rhetoric that it was nothing radical and a militant and that speech was a player were a lot of rhetoric but you know they're as the last week but there are some really light moments in the book when you tell me what it's like to dance with shirley maclaine well there are a lot of flawed and as a show to play out nationally in mclean us suggested dadaab was she said it was something to my eyes is you talk about my rule the poli a fannie or something but see she came south says she
wanted to understand a movement as you want to identify with that it's a little strong supporter of bias or of you know sometime the time you get out of jail and it and you have an opportunity gupta socialize a tool so who after tying get out of the jacket and has a phone and we didn't have the time in a movement we did become a separate trust a band of brothers a sister resort to matter whether you're flying a blight we'll work with the king aka family and i one time and i use the thing john that the only real integration that existed in america was within the movement itself the mosul in a wonderful beautiful sister to a caring and compassionate people became i would appear there are conflicts within conflicts in the book there comes a time when your chairmanship the
betts nick is felons must overcome i've really gotten the election of your elected early in the evening your friends leave no bid you know several apparel the rump session and stokely is elected i don't know if i could have taken that well i am which owns joyce's well you know you don't walk away from you can walk away from sneaking could've said the hell with it had to be part of of this blight you stayed all the i stay on man took it was grace you later went on to other things but puts that changed when lew was one out and call michael came here and ann there was a sense that there was no longer a commitment to nonviolence inside the world that even so the
death of the student nonviolent coordinating committee recalls that lawless it since i've been involved in the deal and the literature of the beloved community we start to talk about black nationalism or by paulo and it was this hole appears to get white participants out of the organization and maneuver all white friends and colleagues of people who has suffered with us live with someone else or die with us and that was not in keeping with the principles of nonviolence betting keep him will foot snake and the snake drop and that came to national court an eighteen million job student drug non violent and disability and death and in a little musician every show that's one do one conflict that so there's a wonderful story in the
book and you tell it with such healing the other the other on the other conflict a lawyer friend julian bond of the race for congress which brings you where you where you are today julian was really sort of sort of ordering the golden crown and he was any favorite to beat you a little action and it was a tough election he was a lecture in which to friends going in or not to friends' coming out is that's where this rare for those are tougher the election campaign another wonderful again you tried and tested the heart and soul the wheels of a lot of people i remember that well my conversation with gillian before congress before him i assume one enemy in a
supportive and though some of his own run for congress is cynically and chairman mr chairman because of images that yes they were going to have lunch together and songwriter for congress there with the shoulders want and fun he said i see on the campaign trail associate with camping trip and we get up and we start running and they're about a four juno's want to win and we get up and we ran we were word for a lot not in a final now so i think that just work in that he committed a great mistake he violated politics wanna one he get forty seven percent of the vote in the first race i received orders that if he chose me to debate him he put me on equal footing that abated him at least for me the five time radio tv for couple audience and i kept since into washington or courts martial the watch and global marshall will and
discover been no work and work in a one of seventeen points in three weeks he went one point you know i i am i think about your year of your life the threat of consistency that runs throughout your whole life what you just said about the other beloved community and carried through it even erica march on washington you decided you would not participate in that because because that sort of in a different way with an expansion of the black nationalist group that the country to take over you know it's it's a story of hope but it's also a story of a great tragedies and he was so close to the uk and we lost you worked so hard about a kennedy and we lost of there is that there is
that there is that a recurrence of meanings what dr king each one in its own way a moment of history and there were those sessions with robert kennedy when you talk about his evolution as a human being is his intellectual growth how he came to understand how he told you that he understood i guess i'd like because you're responsible for to hear you tell in the few moments we have left of that moment in the ghetto in indiana alumni of dr king's death robert kennedy a schedule like this beach and many of his advisors of time and don't go down there don't go into the ghetto i mean it's just going to be trouble the city's cities arent blowing up but you said tell you i felt there was a mouse of rubber candidate to come and speak to a crowd malls it is before having heard about the king had
been shot we have heard some laws i heard a deep been shot but i know when he was near i knew his condition and i felt it was important for opportunity to come and speak and i was one that insisted that robert kennedy had become a rubber canada did come in india speak about it on idle and pronto speaks to robert kennedy made it even and in the us is broken his heart is pulled from a storm he arm he announced to the crowd about the king had been assassinated and it was my first best harvard it it was recovered reformer of a candidate about the things that he will cry alone and it was very sad was her dog mama for me i love and respect about the change was my friend and my hero he was my lead vessel to pick myself up after the funeral of john and said a full
throated messages to interrupt so when on up to oregon and then on up to california and i would never forget did the more the chief lawson hundreds of thousand of people just pulling for opportunity and the night of the victory lab and i was in this room is sweet and for ford ambassador hotel opened a few minutes before he went down to make a statement and a solid job with me and said johnny let me down the date more mexican american vote and negroes visitors
A Word on Words
Episode Number
John Lewis
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Nashville Public Television
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Walking With The Wind, Pt. 2
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Producing Organization: Nashville Public Television
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Duration: 27:46
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Chicago: “A Word on Words; 2640; John Lewis,” 1998-07-02, Nashville Public Television, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed June 8, 2023,
MLA: “A Word on Words; 2640; John Lewis.” 1998-07-02. Nashville Public Television, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. June 8, 2023. <>.
APA: A Word on Words; 2640; John Lewis. Boston, MA: Nashville Public Television, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from