African American Legends; Gordon Thompson, "Langston Hughes: Keeping The Legacy Alive"

The African American Legend Series highlights the accomplishments of blacks and areas as varied as politics, sports, aviation, business, literature and religion. We will explore how African Americans have succeeded in areas where they have been previously excluded, because of segregation, racism and lack of opportunity. I'm your host, Dr. Roscoe C. Brown Jr., and with us today is Gordon Thompson, Professor Vinger's City College and Director of the Langston Hughes Festival. Welcome to African American Legends Gordon. Thank you very much. Now tell us about the Langston Hughes Festival, which I understand is more than just the festival that is a program, so lead us through all of that. Well it's a wonderful program beginning in 1974-75. One of the founders was Ray Patterson, who's now deceased, and pretty much he built this

program until his retirement in the late 1990s. What has kept this program in the forefront of the national interests is that we have brought to the campus figures of great renown, such as James Baldwin, Tony Morrison, Janoa Chebe from around the African diaspora, and we've awarded them medals for their high achievements. They've given lectures to our students, and we have attempted to include additional activities around that award event. Now they said, we have awarded, who's the lead? Well the we is the Langston Hughes Festival. Okay, as such. And that is supported financially by the city and the university, or by the community or by the foundation funds or what? It has been variously supported.

My understanding in the past has been that Ray Patterson has applied for various grants, and that these grants have supported much of their early activity. At some point they received a small endowment. Again, I was not here during that time, and we are still struggling with that endowment, but the principal has gone down. We've had 9-11 and other Wall Street events that have eaten into our principal. But we continue to receive a considerable amount of support from the Dean of Humanities through his budgeting process at City College, and from time to time we continue to apply for grants, depending on the director they've applied to different organizations for different grants. And I must say that poets and writers has been interested in supporting us to some extent by providing funds for the various writers. Now in the 2007-2008 year, who are you going to honor, how is that going to expand the program?

Well, this year is somewhat different. I'm coming in, this will be just about the second year of my directorship. And so things have changed somewhat. So this year I might say, unfortunately we're not having one of these renowned writers come to our campus. That's something that we decide to hold off on temporarily. But this year we're having a symposium, and we normally have symposia and conferences attached to the awarding event. This year we will not. It will simply be a symposium in which scholars from around the country will descend on the City College campus to tell us about African-American poetry and music. So poetry and music are anything about novels and theater. This year is poetry. We've given a lot of awards to poets, and I think more awards actually to novelists. But the interest this year is to look at one of the poetic achievements of Langston Hughes himself.

He's well known for mixing African-American musical rhythms into his poetry. And so we're looking at the continuance of that tradition, in which other poets, poets of today are mixing African-American music into their poeticizing in terms of using rhythms and other sophisticated forms. So the symposium is an attempt to study that particular phenomenon. And I think that is something that the community is very interested in, because we see a little bit of it going on in rap, music, and slam poetry. But folks are not quite aware how to read African-American writers on the page and see that musical influence. So we're going to try to talk about that and inform the community on how to read these poets and read them well and to enjoy them. Is there a website where the public can find out about this? Oh, yes. I've discovered that you can Google us now, which is the easiest way to do it. Actually, you'll find us under Langston Hughes, you'll find us under Langston Hughes at City College, as well as the Langston Hughes Festival.

But we have a website that you can reach by going to the City College website itself and looking under humanities and searching that particular site to find us. Just directly, it's obviously www.ccny.cuneysuuny.edu backslash-l-h-f as in Langston Hughes Festival. And we'd find that everything we need to know about the festival. Well, pretty much. In fact, that's a new site that I'm responsible for putting up. I'm happy to say one of the new things that I've tried to do this year, and I think that it was quite informative. Now, does the site have anything about the history of Langston Hughes, how he got to New York, what he did in New York, how he was received, which is really a sort of a hidden story in the general African-American community, because Langston Hughes came from Lincoln University. That's right.

Here, and not knowing what he was doing, he wrote this poem about theme for English 101. It's the college, how he was treated, and it's a tremendous history there. Tell us a little about that history and how we can find out more about it. Well, you know, we have a little bit of it on our website. I think that you make a really good point that we might put up an entire page and put a biography which we have not done. But yes, this is very interesting, because based on that poem, there is this impression that Langston Hughes attended City College, and unfortunately, it's more of an urban myth, as they say. We would like for him to attend at City College. We think that he was trying to focus on City College because he understood that it was more centrally located in Harlem than Columbia was. But at the time he wrote it, he was actually attending Columbia. He did not finish his work at Columbia, and it was only later that he went on to Lincoln University to finish his college work. And we don't know exactly what the reason is, but folks normally suggest that one of the

reasons why he did not finish his college work is because he was spending too much time at the Savoy at various nightclubs soaking up the atmosphere. And but Hughes loved Harlem. Of course, this is doing the Harlem Renaissance. He was an inspiration to everyone around him just in terms of his personality. Someone who came, of course, from the Midwest, but also had roots in Washington, D.C., where his mother lived for many years. But Hughes found, as we do today, I think, New York City extraordinarily vibrant. And at that time, it was particularly exciting because the African-American community in Harlem was, they were doing things that you could not find almost anywhere else except perhaps in New Orleans. Let's put this in a time perspective. What was the time perspective of the Harlem Renaissance, and what Hughes was around? A number of people think he just happened yesterday, but it happened a long time ago. Well, Hughes, of course, was born in 1902.

So when he arrived, Harlem was already pretty much in full swing. But I think that different historians have suggested different dates. And I think that in order not to get into arguments with these historians, it's probably safe as to say that the 1920s, as a particular decade, is the safest decade to focus on. And I think that most of the high points of the Harlem Renaissance occurred during the 1920s. And the community was just now increasing its population. It had, of course, both high points and low points, lots of disease and other problems were in the community. But I think that the artists were doing their best to raise the spirits of the people in the community. And I think that they succeeded in doing this not only in terms of poetry, but, of course, even more so in terms of music. So we had musicians coming from as far away as New Orleans, St. Louis, Chicago.

They would hit those sights, and, of course, they had to come to a Harlem. And there, in fact, many of them made their name. So it was quite exciting for those particular reasons. Well, a good part of the public awareness of the Harlem Renaissance came from Carl van Vecton and the white patrons who would support these arts. Now, how did he use fit into that? Well, the patrons, that's another sore point in the history of the Harlem Renaissance. But I think that there are two sides to this. There are those who wonder whether or not the patrons influence the writers in a negative fashion. But I think that more and more scholars are coming to understand that without these patrons, we might not get some of the material we got from some of these particular writers that they depended on these patrons who were pretty much working with these artists in good faith, I think.

Now, Carl van Vecton, as you've mentioned his name, he was a great New York City figure, quite flamboyant. He wrote a novel that caused a great uproar, nigga heaven. And another great figure of this period, W.E.B. The Voice, was the reigning impresario of the era, and he condemned this work as well as other texts and material that he thought did not uplift the race. But Carl van Vecton was a great friend of Langston Hughes, and supported Langston Hughes, and brought together other artists, including the great Bessie Smith, who he loved considerably, and was also a favorite of a great many writers, including Langston Hughes. And we find her invention in Ralph Ellison's novel some 30 years later. So van Vecton was a great figure. This was also supported by another individual, an elderly lady, along with Zora Neohurston, and there is considerable tales about this particular relationship, the ups and downs of

that particular relationship. So there were patrons, Hughes used them, and I think that we are the beneficiaries of those relationships. Now how did Hughes yet to be seen, more or less, as the poet, Lord of the average black person? He had that simple speaks, that little column he used to do every week, and so on, and he wrote all kinds of things in addition to his poetry. How did that develop? He became sort of the poet, Lord of Harlem at that time, particularly now he's revered as the one who really knew Harlem. How did that happen? Well, my sense is that he said that he was influenced by Paul Arnold's Dunbar, and one of the things that Paul Arnold's Dunbar did was to read his poetry aloud to the public, and I think that Hughes took this on, and one of the things that Hughes did that a great

many other writers did not do, is that he loved going down among the people and reading his poetry, not only here in Harlem, but not only across the country, but around the world. And so I think that he was close to the people, number one in terms of his actual physical presence. But the other reason is because of what I was talking about earlier, that he wanted to use African-American popular music in his poetry. So the actual poems were accessible to the people. He wrote blues poems and jazz poems, and people heard the blues and heard the jazz, so the very popular nature of the form that he was using, ingratiated himself with this larger folk, as we might call them, the folk, as it were. So those were a number of the ways in which Hughes responded to the people. And he had the black press. He would write stories for the black press, short stories, and his simple speaks, who became sort of the barbershop talk of the community.

That's right, I mean, going to the Chicago defender where he published these columns, people knew from simple that he understood the regular life, that he understood the man on the street. He understood the conversations in the bar. So they could read him, and they could identify it, what he was saying. But he also became the poet laureate. I think while we're using the word poet, in some ways we really want to say the writer laureate. It was because he wrote in so many different genres. He not only did he write poetry, the jazz poetry, but he also wrote free, very poetry. He wrote history. I love Walt Whitman. He wrote history, autobiography. He wrote novels, short stories, and these headlines, he did everything. So in each of these different categories, he spoke to the people. And while he died in 1967 and one wouldn't say that was an extraordinarily long life, he lived a great deal longer than some of his peers, such as County Colin and Claude McKay, whose lives were somewhat shorter.

They think they died in their 40s. So he lived a bit longer. He was certainly far more popular, and he influenced a great many other writers. So this also affected his title as the poet laureate, Gwendolyn Brooks. She wrote letters to him, he encouraged her. And in fact, her story is a story of a great many writers, which is that they go up to him, and they say, Langston Hughes, I'm so-and-so, I'm trying to write, and he would give them considerable encouragement. Brooks said this was quite different from when she approached some other folks who would pretty much try to push them aside. Yes, yes, yes, you're trying to write, well, good luck, go your own way. So Hughes was a man of the people, and that's really what I'm trying to say. He wasn't simply a great poet, but he was a man of the people, a true Renaissance man for his day. It's very interesting, as you focus on poetry in this year's festival. It brings us to look at what's happening today in rap, and the contemporary poets, because we go through the last poets of the 70s, and now we have the rap artists and the writers,

and some of the misogynistic lyrics, and so on. How do you think Hughes would have felt about that? Well, I think that Hughes would have been able to teach us how to appreciate this material. I think that he would have spoken about it in the way that we could understand this material. I think that he understands that while some of it is negative, that all of it is not negative, but while some of the rap artists use harsh words and imagery, that this is not true throughout the rap genre. And I think that he would have pointed to the positive things, and I think that one of the things that he would have pointed to was when you get me, what rap really is, and rap is using the voice in a percussive, and in that sense, an African manner, an African mode, and using rhythms from music to actually give rhythm to your words, to your poetry.

I think he would have understood that impact, so that when they speak, they're trying to, some would say, trying to replicate the drumming that had been taken away from us when we came here as slaves. So I think he would have focused on that particular aspect of it more so than those rap lyrics that we find objectionable. Now, a mirror of Baraka, Leroy Jones, picked up from Hughes in the 70s, and much of his poetry is based on music, rhythm, rhyme, and tunes, and many of the rappers listened to Baraka, and they followed from him. So the question that always intrigues me is, what is the next genre? What's going to happen next? You're a professor, a job to project a future, what do you think is this evolution is going to be? Well, I'm even though I'm in literature, I have a background in history, so I could tell you a little bit more about the history than to project the future.

I truly cannot say, and I think that there's a good reason for not being able to say. I mean, it goes all the way back to Plato, who tells us that the musicians tell us what's coming. And so we need a musician to tell us what's coming next. The poets, I think, do not predict the future, but that musicians do. They don't so much predicted as they actually enact it. These are the young folks who come out and enact what's in their system, and I think that we follow that. And I think that Plato said that way back when. So I think that music being the nature of music takes us into the future, and we follow it. And I think that if there's anything that I might say is that I think that all music, popular music, in particular, is going to become more and more African-ized. I think that we are embracing more and more the African influences, we are breaking out of that restrictions, those restrictions that we once had. How close that jazz brings us there. Jazz brings us there. But there's more to it.

There's a great deal more. And international, that's another point that I wouldn't make, that music is more international right now. It's a great mixture of international influences around the globe. And I think that that also will impact the poetry, that rather than poets simply trying to speak about their community, they will try to attract poems that have an international relevance, as it were. That's my sense of at least what's on the cusp at this point. Of course, modern technology, the cell phone, the digital, the satellite. By internet. TV has internationalized music and poetry and culture, which brings about some interesting legal challenges to what extent is one particular group going to benefit from this, when you digitize music, who's going to get the copyright? And that's where the lawyers get into it. But the fact is that the tradition that you're perpetuating, through the Langston Hughes

Festival, is one that is going to continue and will show that African Americans have had an even greater impact on the cultural life of the world than many people think. So what can you and the City University and City College do to help expand the should they be more Langston Hughes Festival, should they be more Langston Hughes Centers, should they be centers about the study and the development of African music, poetry, rhythm? How can we do that? Well, I think that you're absolutely right. I think that we are moving into a period now where we are learning a great deal more about the past, and I think that the more we learn about the past, the more we have to present to our community. But I think the community is growing, obviously, as time passes, and so there are many great writers and artists producing material, and we need to expand our platform for presenting that information to students and to the community.

So I think that there are those who somewhat believe, somewhat short, just short-sightedly that we have now done the African American thing, that that era has somehow passed. And I think that that's only of you decide that what you've already seen is all that there is. And clearly, there's a great deal more that we have to uncover, and there's a great deal more that's actually happening right now. So we do need these platforms, they do need to continue. And I think that the African American community needs it, as I think, you know, like a thirsty man needs water. We need to have, we need to be able to see our culture, to know that it is appreciated, and we need this because this is what helps the youngsters to learn. They're inspired by this. And it's the inspiration that there is something about them that's out there. So the point is that it needs to be visible, and it needs to be, it needs to occur as often as possible. So I think that at City College, first of all, the Langston Youth Festival is something

that I have to say, there's a sense that it's somewhat threatened as a program. And I think that we need to- Greatness of growing, why? Well, we have, as we said earlier, a limited budget, and we may have a limited faculty to run the program for a variety of reasons. We got you. Yeah. But we need, obviously, others, and if the powers that be feel that they cannot find someone to run the program, it will wither and die. And there is that threat. So we need to find ways to increase the faculty that would be interested in sustaining this program, and also finding ways to anchor this program to the college itself. You have a very good point, a plethora of African-American scholars now, not nearly enough, but they have a plethora of African-American scholars, and many times the younger scholars

don't understand or don't relate the past and the traditions. And so what your job is, and our job is to help integrate those, that's how I'm, for example, as a state of mind, all over the world is a black cultural community. And whether the population changes as it's changing in the Harlem and New York, there's always going to be that cultural outreach. So your task, and the task of your fellow scholars, is to expand that. And one way you're doing it is by offering programs. That's right. For example, the poetry series you're going to do, the poetry slams, and then maybe some work on going back and looking at the history of Hughes, for example, a good program would be, what do the, thanks to Hughes, me to Harlem? Yes. It's an historical piece, and you might be able to explore it. Well, one of the things that we do that helps that out a little bit more is that, in

addition to giving medals to these great writers, we also have a choral festival that we do in the spring, where we reach out to the grade schools, to the schools, clap grades, K through 12. And they do things at their schools, and they bring it to this festival. And it's a wonderful thing to see. What they do is they put poetry to music, these students, and they also recite information about Langston Hughes to one another. And we offer the opportunity for all of these schools to come together and hear what they have done. And it's, I mean, as you probably know, it's always just charming to see young students performing and reading. So it's just charming just to see them do that. But then you find that they focus on Langston Hughes, and his work is so wonderful that, no matter how familiar you may think you are with it, there's a new insight in seeing the kids do it their own way and express their own words.

So we do that. And then we also offer an essay contest, where we ask high school students to write the best essay, usually on Langston Hughes, and we give a prize for the best essays. So we try, and we reach out to the high schools in the city and bring them in on this. So in those ways, we are trying to reach out to the youngsters beyond city college and into the community. I think that it certainly has an effect, but I think we need to do more. Just sitting here talking with you, I'm excited, just hearing about this, that I've seen and heard some of these young people writing about Hughes, talking about the Renaissance, putting their words to music, and so on. And that is part of the excitement of being in the cultural experience of African Americans. So you've done a great job, and you've got more to do. Yeah, boy to do. Absolutely. And we're trying to do this every single year. This is our 30 second year running this program. So we hope to be able to run it for a great many years into the future.

Today on African American Legend, we've been talking with Gordon Thompson about the Langston Hughes Festival and the various aspects of Langston Hughes's contribution to the African American community. Thanks for being with us today, guys. Thank you very much for allowing me to come in and speak about the Langston Hughes Festival. Thank you.