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the now thank you
thank you mr ryan those lavender jane lithgow talking less than what was that second saw you forget where you from daycare and tae a day there are five lesbians in a syrian and a lot more activity greene listening and we hope a lot more after listening including in missouri community and go ahead of your future self what our number has something to say here because we will know on piano and here in this program are mostly and separatism i like to make a statement to all women not be invalidated because i'm a lesbian they're celebrating the multifaceted aspects of radio and all over this term this weekend ten years ago possibly and five this was virtually
impossible to me as well known as feminist as lesbians have struggled worked and fought long and hard to manifest this week in swing jazz through something to celebrate at their lives in the struggles a lot over we had just begun to define the space that we need is one make and take that space on to invoke a line that i heard a black woman saying they're not giving us our freedom summer to reach out and take it take ivory and make it ours which brings me to a controversy or controversy all subject men and women's space where india's space of their own together and injuries and heal ourselves at this point the negative force of the male
has become so intense that it has become an essential part of women survival together without that have taken so much from mass that we as women have turned to each other for that support that by our wreath and an energizing support that we need and on and again the women that worked in the accomplishments that we have made manifest in this newman's weekend or any other work that brings us women together i hope we all realize the importance of coming together from ourselves and our differences in our current qualities and our common struggles it's not an attack on heterosexual women and do you think it's important that all women heterosexual and lesbians are like find positive ways to work together and some women's issues have been addressed well let's see and summoning women's issues have been addressed
this one we can run a whole year has devoted specifically to women was disappointed to see and hear someone second event and he is being presented asked people sufficient women or people of course but they're issues that are specifically women's issues from the stands and heterosexuals are like and i would like to see these issues addressed and given priority in the future women's events audio to celebrate women as often and as possible and everywhere everywhere they are everywhere we need airspace and we will take it is in my opinions and i take responsibility for them and in speaking to wear and lesbians and heterosexuals and i'm finding out that these feelings of felt by many women search through this affirmation i feel confident saying that he's an unbiased opinions they're shared by many
and i cannot bring up the subject of the gladstone for so inspiring to write this i went around it's there is real hard for me to be there being lesbian being as much of a separatist lesbian that can be on and there are at least ten dead i had to leave that because sam wanted to leave because they just didn't want to deal with the male aspect there and down i was real disappointed to see that happening because it was a woman's event and women couldn't feel good enough because the men being there too to stay there is really a struggle for me to stay and also i've talked to some other sexual in and they felt that they really would like to see more of a space as opposed to their
nests there's a fire sale she told me on that us stance as a woman we just take one look at the men sit next to them and ask him to lean and others are a strong statement for a woman who has many friends and names announced on the top that for instance just won't listen i just i would like to say this is an issue of one of his face i think it's something that we can address here as lesbian sent in in the context of lesbian separatism because it i feel like women only space is an extremely important concept i think the way thats the only place where women can really build the energy that is inside of us and they really share things and i think a lot of people don't understand women only space they see it as something against men an exclusive
of men learn what it really is trying to do is open an opportunity for women to be together an offensive not doing their energy off into the male behaviors that are around and to people who are invested in or not building their energy but instead to give each other energy and to realize the beautiful things are within women that can happen when you're with other women i think anyone who's been to women only event known as that there's a special feeling there and something that cannot happen when men are included it's seasonal strains to meet its own but it's something that we that we literally have to fight for and that is becoming more and more to an idea that impossible to find it almost impossible to find and i don't think a tax if you're straight if you don't relate to the world as a lesbian when you have no idea what it's like day after day after day to be living at it like i live an occupied territory and i i i feel like
most of my life i just have to kowtow to pass to land to be able to do my job and make a living and whatnot and there's fewer and fewer places where i feel like it's safe to be myself and it's for fighting i don't think that vic if you fit in if you know if you're one of the majority of your hair or sexual white person that you have any idea what it's like to have no space virtually no space except your own home or your friend's home where you can really be yourself and it seems strange to me that there aren't there other sisters and movement don't understand that no not saying they'll darkest thoughts at all straight women don't because what straight women do they dig it always become such an issue and down in armor we had the meetings who have influence we can remember one woman saying i thought that was kind of a hostile man or you know we've got to make sure that time didn't feel included and the most of reach out to me unfit to say it now why me where she you know she's the orient i think that's really true
i grew to me it seems that sometimes one of the criticisms leveled against the women's show is that oh well a dear dear to lesbian and yet how little of what's on the radio or anywhere has to do with lesbians are and if you are there is actually it's like and he said you really cannot imagine that i'm ninety nine percent almost a hundred percent of the programming that even on a station like a lpn as far however such what's and you can know then so you live as a lesbian what that's like it's really important that we take our own space and on and make a lonely one i thought it was strange to see a program described in the program guys are sexual programming i am an actor wasn't sure that was coming from because of course the overwhelming majority of programs even as women's weekend are blatantly hatteras actual program if you if you try to imagine yourself a lesbian and listen to things you will hear them very differently and you'll see how how these sanctions they're
made the ascension soon in that women relate to me and the assets only really by women in this culture the kinds of experiences that are portrayed i am two media in any form whether the literature arts and radio and television our music and always the experiences though is portrayed as the women only relate to men when elaine swinton is his left out in only you know even like you know in a movie like girlfriends you know it was that was dominated you know by the fact that these women relating to many and that's what one out and as a lesbian it's an extremely important to try to get some lesbians face even just some women space weather history one as well but just so that you can that you can have something to identify with the larger world because as you say if you're down three down make our own women's space that we're always tying up our energy dealing with now i think that's what you're saying with the gladstone said it many times in a doubt
one of the reacting and responding to me and i think it's up to maddie was facile for their own behavior we should now have to be responding to that's magician have to be defending ourselves and i need to have a women's weekend are women's music i just i don't think we should take responsibility for that just looking editor for story we hear a more miracles i mean we really are miracles every one of us has a miracle because we have thought through every thing that we were taught enormous pressure enormous prejudices we have we have more or less voluntarily chosen to to be outlaws to be actress and he's a veteran of the gesture anyway who was was a force my track far we've come through a vital here we are here we are we're almost the first generation in a sense i think
that if you don't count the debt of the lesions are goals zero is an organized force they consciously where fan each other i think that in a political sense and i think it's i think what we have to do is walk the song by thomas says where we go from here you have to start building something that's kind of less because otherwise all the women they come they come after it's really going to have to go through the same struggles maybe worse once way the political currents going then we eat and where we define this space in this culture now to start building office that's my question i like to make one point just about in relation to this is about being a lesbian out like for anyone out there to know that being a lesbian as something that you are i mean i feel that it's not this twice i have that if i would only know i choose to do so i could live differently arby's something other than who i am i feel like i was born a lesbian the way somebody was born black airborne why are born male or
female and so imagine you know trying to live here like our time is something that you're not and even though you know you are it's like back to the point of being organized force i feel that women and their own ways lesbians in particular ion have always been somewhat of an organized force we thought really long and hard you know from even my grandmother's in my great grandmother's times there were lesbians than there are more lesbians now because women like us that are sitting here speaking on the radio are putting words when i'm putting words in women's now by giving them words for their feelings nowhere back then even you know in the nineteen forties and nine and thirties there wasn't a chance and then you have one chance of a lifetime at to meet another lesbian wears were just really you know we fought long we've fought long and we fought hard to get to the
point of being able to talk on the air right now yes is to say that there is a choice that's what we're saying we're not saying everyone is a lesbian or should be or saying there's a choice and were lesbians and you know we don't want to hide that we don't see that as a negative thing that's who we are and we see it as a positive thing for us tv i know i'm speaking for myself that i don't think that i would be leslie if it wasn't for the women's movement which isn't i'm not sure that i would've ever of a broken through the barriers an unmanned matter of not knowing of never having heard the word of being as thinking of it as something unthinkable really something so they had it you know you just can see how you would be there but with the women's movement there is that there was the support there from other lesbians in the movement where you could feel like this could be a viable way to rehab it could be something that you would choose to exercise and that's why it's so important to me that that we
continue to be a force in there and make our space i think the conversation to be made here is that there's a choice and their choices involved in how you live on i feel like when the dust that i'm a lesbian i could choose to live as though i were not but i would still be right and then you know the women's movement has given a whole lot of support in the hall my voice to women like ourselves who he have these feelings and i may have got my whole life thinking i'm not like you know lesbians because i don't know where men's clothes in and go and cut my heroes shorts like it back like and lesbians were portrayed in any information that i got when i was a young woman and i think that the women's movement has allowed us to find each other and to support each other and the choice is there to live as a lesbian the choices there to be yourself and the creation of women's spaces only and the women's movement as a
whole is only to provide women today the opportunity themselves i like to say that our originally lesbians have to fight to get in through the feminist movement in most instances i i find that that was true not to not to get into it you had to come out of the closets with us citizenship at nobody ever objected list you know it's looking envelopes made i think if you wanted to make a speech you mentioned that you were a lesbian and that's another store so it's i think oh i've been so lesbians do a lot of work in the women's movement and yet a lot of the lessons are doing the work you don't broadcast affected their lesbians and if you do that's not real popular as we're so glad the show is about separatism know like her sexual women have an essential part in the women's movement because their into their men and they you know can raise their consciousness i haven't the energy they
then take too much of my energy just by walking down the street harassment all the time you know everything because i'm a lesbian because i'm a woman and i've put my energy specifically an honest excludes exclusively you know i would put it exclusively if i possibly could in june when i think that's a good point i think that lesbians that's what we're doing where women do put our energy into other women yeah not only as a sexual thing but as an analytical stands a life a life sustaining stance many heterosexual men even come again take you know our support and our energy and go do it with them and you know and just go back to them and then sometimes means it's nice that we're trying to work together and i support than my own sometimes and a real sensitive to our needs as lesbians
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we can at it well the key and that was their christian with where we go from here and if you just tuned in you're listening to a program about muslim separatists on women's weekend hurt european radio and before i forget our mention that we are not taking phone calls at terms of discussing programming hour and can cause over the air we end don't have all the time in the world this afternoon those of us here have a lot of things and very much when i talk about and we're sorry if
that doesn't give you a chance to respond back and sure they'll be another chance for that you can copy time i didn't say we can be really good deed and we wanted to just kind of talk about them what lesbian separatism is so what would what their concept means to us and we're going to just go out and i start off because i don't have a laurie answers that i think about it it seems rude symbol to me it means divorcing myself as best i can for male dominated culture and that sounds maybe it sounds simple but it is enormously complex and difficulty seeing as how i don't have money to go bow and i don't really like to live in isolated a lot of activity apple was going to be part of political activities although i find it harder harder to feel comfortable as a lesbian do that so i've chosen to live in tehran have now work than and so they are very i don't have now i can't say that i
mentioned lesbian separatist anymore one time when i work i was and at that point i was willing to accept a lot more poverty and except a lot more of the hostility that you receive when you start being set of an actual lesbian and i looked different everything so that's about all to me it's since divorced myself a male dominated culture and i do it at least in my mind every day but in terms of doing it physically i don't get to talk to on the show i feel that ideally lesbian separatism winning in position to not have anything to do with men but realistically i feel that you know putting your energies towards women and excluding men and all you can do is you know for me that's important as a lesbian and as a separatist on a like a just a country issue
say that that's one space where women can someone be as a practical separatist in the sense that they're not doing manned match and i think it's a political statement in itself that to have women on the land living and function in so sufficiently without men and that's happening and happening all over the country and i encourage women to get together with each other if they had any dreams whatsoever about getting around with other women to do it because the land on the mother earth we are now is vitally important to anyone survival special environments is not for me when i was thinking about what lesbian separatism and for me it's really a combination of the two i like you
said earlier about mainly i think about it as separate myself spiritually and mentally removing as self i'm the old ideas of the fathers from the patriarch known patriarchal culture that's all around us and end having a new way of seeing things in seeing through the lies you know separate myself mall the allies that we've grown up with in the notion that they were born before were born i also the tent as often as possible to separate myself physically to because it really tired of having to explain myself on time where i'm coming from because i feel that even my friends were not lesbians still see me sometimes and i'm sure they don't do it consciously but i think that they have this filter up in their minds and they see me as a lesbian first and as a person second i think that when i
have an opinion they're going to automatically connect that with molesting as before they'll think of it any further along myself i have a new sofa a comment that's what comes across in mind first and i thought i have to explain myself all the time in and be on the defensive i just financed general attitude of you know your lesbian your man here about why did so sick of that and so sick of being accused of having negative energy when it's not an advantage it's positive energy towards women and so when i get so i don't have to deal with that i'd rather be with lesbians with other women feel that way and and get stronger from and that's what's been happening in the past couple years of my life i think i came to separatism from so many years i think of putting energy into men and feeling like my
energy that was being trained after giving energy back and feeling like i didn't have much to give back to the world things i care far i just felt that it was best for me personally to put my energy into women as debbie said i feel like it's a positive thing and not a negative thing i feel like that by doing that and sustain to really wired to to be with us maybe the environmental out more things that i care about i feel like i i feel like those things are comparable with my putting energy into other women and that's the way i see it for me i just on my energy trade off and i like it and lesbian citizens in many of the same ways as a body that expressed i feel like it really separatism would be the creation of a time space where i would not have to deal with a male culture at all and not only not just bomb dealing directly with men but also
with women who represent that culture and who fights for that culture all the time in relation to my child to be in a women's culture and i feel too that they're being lesbian is an extremely positive thing in my life if it allows me to be myself and waited but i don't see very many women who were not lesbians able to the end i feel like i can be myself like at last when i am not reacting against all the patriarchal mail identified things in our culture and i'm not i don't want to spend all my time defending my being a lesbian or my know wanting to deal with men and as it is it has been said it just drains away energy drains where my energy and i want my energy to be free and to flow well and to be healthy and into plants in my life not into the lives of the men the end and in the world at
large and i see are some of us hesitated sentences as you said as you said ten yesterday at stake in it and that you'd lot on science because maybe you're you know worry about your jobs or you know whenever you know you ask how worried you know so threatened by that that you know we're not saying names and we haven't really discussed that before the study only do we want the names of the air and i mean how dare we have to do what we have to be put in this position i'm really angry that now probably had to change my name actors there might just do that in a way i think it's really to what i think it's a part of the real world that we
live in i think it's one of those realities that we're trying to get away from back to it separatists and you know with several others do have jobs and and if it were known that we were lesbian it may cause quite a bit of trouble in their jobs more than it costs to his job which is a reality also and i think that for the one who were listening when out lesbians and i think that's something that i mean i could think about just right now that you know if you are a lesbian as a real fear that are we now to consider less stress says you just did be afraid to reveal her name's there's also a stress which brings us back to me that and to be with each other because of that summertime energy so much because it's really a stress and i can honestly say from having spent many years thinking i was a heterosexual that if you think that natural is because so being a lesbian living as a lesbian who is
stressful and dark it's women with other women like myself that i feel healed i thought i can finally can be myself i don't have to as i think that he said i'm just explain myself for defending myself but i can just see it was before i am linda i don't have to even navy top of that being a lesbian is that he knows it and then since i was you know just thinking about i'm no us as separatists are working towards building women's cultures so that women have that option as it were lesbians you know and being lesbian is the society that is built right now totally alienates us in a negative way and you know we are taking our space and stepping out of society and a sense on we're turning
the negative energy around and trying to do a real positive things on with all the things that have been really just throw it as all the garbage off of lies all the hate i am one i was thinking wow and you were talking about john what our culture has been traditionally which is that bars and that's been pretty much the only place where lesbians found each other and you know it's just to create such an image in your head you know you can imagine back in say the nineteen fifties when you go get those lesbians working after the straight world and then it ends in a totally conformist economy much worse than it is even now and in going at night the bargain loaded you know and that's only place where you could it was acceptable to be a lesbian but even then it was accepted to do you were queer since it was accepted as being that you were by diverting it to hungry or whatever and it wasn't seen as a positive things right getting out and that again it's like i mean that's not that hasn't ended they're still lots of lesbian students primarily
see each other and in bars and alcoholism is a big problem in our community our communities all across the nation and then the senior gets we get to we have to have new better kinds of space with each other than those dark smoky smelly bars you know we can sing with our own voices and talk and say our names and touching each other and you know you know while all of our attention isn't sexual i'd like to stress that you know just because we're lesbians were not sexual perversity know something you know like to that effect and also like to say something about it and she said about the nineteen fifties ellison even born there and thank the guys women like are have been there and have struggled to get out of the bars into the circle and there i am i came into a pretty it was
the beginning of women saying there's already a women's that's right before i was born and so here i am coming into voter and i'm building on maintenance coal tar and really seriously into them in their winning carpenters there are women doctors lawyers teachers of your children our children aren't there women who delivered children who are lesbians and we do it with our love and our hearts and that's not you know not perverts really not it's you both really saying too that the whole thing about being positive i i think it's really important thing to think about their still out of people who it's true just that the idea you interview young lesbian isn't as something positive it's just something it's hard for people to understand
something different they're just to work and id's morris it's very hard not to feel negative about yourself or bad about yourself again that's the reason for separating yourself as much as you can from a culture movie images as being this terrible thing at a pervert which is incredible to me is i taught school for four years and i finally credible that people think hey maybe some kind of a pervert i just i want to say that part of the reason they're lesbians have met in bars in the past is that there was the only space allotted to us by the larger culture we're talking here about a lot of personal feelings but it's also a political entity here and that culture does not want us to be meeting each other they don't want us to come out of the bars they don't want us to come out of the closet and they really don't want us to be being to get on her own terms and her own space to do with our energy well we will it's a very threatening thing to the
culture at large because we don't bend feed that culture all of this wonderful ones energy when we take you can do with it what we want as an outfit made it you know you wanna look around themselves in this culture that is the aim of everything in this culture this culture is a woman hating culture and i know that you said something quite a while ago now on the show she's in the most radical thing i do is love women and that is the most radical thing to be done in this culture because this concert he chooses to have women to denigrate women to feel that women are not worth anything so you can go of it at that but you can't gather so like this and really like yourself living room right and you can't teach in high school and in and say how to thank you know because the laugh rated their kids' alcohol and say you know end and there's a song i heard that itself times that lake where everyone's voice
choir because there was a hero who was olivier and when he and hero was a lesbian now that's unheard of in this culture nobody wants a voice where you know but we are in a lot of us are at an end it's coming out that we do want to be lesbians because it's a wonderful thing to be polite to say something and then and then really threatened and i think i think that's why you know even some women are threatened but right now i'm thinking about the man how threatened they are that lesbians are here we are everywhere in the cities in their day and john i think you know instead of trying to fight as because basically you wear women's as well as the women they are with an allotment on hopefully loving that they should get together and instead a
draining women's energy even their own feminist girl franchise arab woman friend on get together with themselves and try to figure out why you know try to teach themselves and it'll are not to be threatened and learned to understand that we are very wonderful women lesbians are wonderful really we are ourselves i hadn't intended to get into this whole subject matter how much and when you get into it that's what do they don't get into existence that's really where i was a few years ago that only lesbians are all wonderful women now that that's a fallacy and i think it does us less than justice because it seems like they're saying they were not human or
something i mean it's like i know some lessons myself included some moments that that doesn't change i mean i still think it's like that big outdoor we are miracles that we even exist in the nets pretty wonderful and i would rather deal with the most needy the most noxious lesbian and you know within a plant and for those of you i've never met a lesbian and i'm thinking of i like to say that i've met many lesbians and there are very very different than a lesbian mothers there are many many lesbians who've been married alex douban has been married she has a daughter i am you you can't look at a person and tell you you know i mean that's really natural that lesbians common i'll say sometimes and then so i've seen that some women wear face paint and high heels and dresses and knocking it i'm just saying that's the way it is on lesbians did that and some women who has been stressing men's
clothes and some of us just in betweens and i was interesting to me when i first really realize that because i went around thinking to they could probably tell you know and of course i found after that that wasn't true and i remember talking to a friend went to work to work we got on the subject of homosexuality in general and he was saying how he had homosexuals friends a couple in school you know a couple of guys and now he was really you know continuous friends with and stuff like that they're pretty regular people maintaining said that she not never met and lesbians and i really want to jesus so i said hey you know understand yet at me and then he does really can lead us all what issues are on the fence simon and so that to me was just a real eye opener i read i read in books all the time you know you
see some description and dismay of writing this book and you say well this woman she wasn't wearing any makeup and she had managed close moore short hair and i knew right away she was a lesbian and it's the old stereotype that people have in a it's a it's one word i guess that makes them feel more comfortable to think that that there are very few other significant how will we look like in an unknown though is that they see as not to realize that it's it's the woman read the best guesses are your daughter in school it's you know our kids or daughter and he told me that i would never be on social scientists he had never met a homeless man i want him to one side and making all that so my friends and i think the point here is is that we are a diverse and there are as many kinds of lesbians as our kinds of women and again it serves the culture to have negative stereotypes about women about lesbians because then you would think it's an action hero as being girl
growing up if they want to but i can't deal i think is i'm not like they're you know i have these feelings for women but it must not him was it must be something else and there are women who are married now even now who were married men who are married who are left and they're all lesbians and in an arc times and like and he said every lesbianism out a wonderful person but i think the feeling that if a mother was this is that women are great in general you know and it's a positive feeling about women i mean that's what's so wonderful about being a lesbian about having lesbian states and i think it is one response one other thing and that is that when he and lesbians face when they can do otherwise things done if the picture was about time you can just be yourself you just be a lesbian gone into something else that interested and we are just lesbians of the islands and it's hard i think when other people to stereotype a sense he is as all being the same like it's really hard because
it's not true and we all came to a lesbian isn't from different payouts different ages and others had been out maybe since we've been now fifteen or sixteen so this didn't come out until we were and i met her late twenties and i think a lot of people don't realize that oh you're a lesbian there for these particular things are true about you and it's natural sciences artists some of this may be our secretaries who just are different that i get tired of people thinking it because they perhaps no one thing about lesbians and they know something about me that may not be true i may not share those police at all i may not agree with a lot of other lesbians i like to be seen as an individual person who is a lesbian i think the goddess that i was went to a school that was free enough to have open ideals and not force their patriarchal choices and you know the whole trip on us she's agreed upon
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Program on Lesbian Separatism
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Produced for Women's Weekend 1981, this program is a freeform discussion among 5 women at the KOPN studio about lesbian and women's issues, It opens with a singalong to Alix Dobkin's "View from Gay Head".
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Chicago: “Program on Lesbian Separatism,” KOPN-FM, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed July 17, 2019,
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