Interview with Mary Bailey, President of Lucis Trust

This morning we have with us in the studio Mary Bailey who is the present head of the arcane school founded by Alice Bailey and we're going to be talking about Alice Bailey was a remarkable woman and tremendous contributor to the esoteric philosophy of the- of the planet we're going to hear us her great invocation and that as it's sung by the new troubadours from findhorn and then this this invocation is kind of the central mantra that uh came down through her and is a- is a central focus, uh, of the work of the arcane school [Music] [Music]

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[Music] [Music] Alice bailey worked directly with a Tibetan master, and all of her very extensive writings or most of them came down through him and a form of direct transmission, which w- which was not automatic writing that oh which was an intimate spiritual contact and i've asked Mary Bailey to read from the autobiography of Alice Bailey a little bit about her relationship with the D K the Tibetan master. Mary? thank you this of course is analysis in words and i quote "it was in november 1919 that i had made my first contact with the tibetan. I had sent

the children off to school, and thought i would snatch a few minutes to myself, and went out on the hill close to the house. i sat down and began thinking, and then suddenly, i was startled and attentive. i heard what i thought was a clear note of music. which sounded from the sky, through the hill, and in me, and then I heard a voice which said 'there are some books which it is desired that be written for the public, you can write them, will you do so without a moment's notice. i said certainly not.' i'm not a ?don psychic?, and i don't want to be drawn into anything like that. i was startled to hear myself speaking out loud. the voice went on to say 'but wise people did not make snap judgments and that i had a peculiar gift for the higher telepathy and that what i was being asked to do embodied no aspect of the lower psychism.' i replied that i didn't care what i wasn't interested in any work of the psychic nature at

all. the unseen person who was speaking so clearly and directly to me, then said that he would give me time for consideration, but he would not take my answer then and that he would come back in 3 weeks time exactly to find out what i intended to do. I then shook my self as if i was awakening from a dream, and went home, and entirely forgot all about the matter. i never gave it another thought, and did not even tell Foster about it. During the interval i never remembered it, but sure enough at the end of three weeks, I was spoken to again one evening, as i sat in my sitting room after the children had gone to bed. Again i refused, but the speaker begged me to reconsider, and for a couple of weeks at least, see what i could do. By this time I was getting curious, but not in the least convinced. I would try for a couple of weeks or a month, and then decide what i felt about it. it was during these few weeks, that i got the first chapters of initiation

human, and solar. I would like to make it quite clear that the work i do, is in no way related to automatic writing. Automatic writing, except in the rarest cases, and unfortunately, Most people think their case is the rare exception, is very dangerous. The Esperanto or disciple is never supposed to be an automaton. He is never supposed to let any part of his equipment out of his conscious control. When he does, he enters into a state of dangerous negativity. The material, normally then received as mediocre. There is nothing new in it, and it frequently deteriorates as time goes on. Many a time the subject's negativity permits the entrance of a second force, which for some peculiar reason is never of as higher standards as the first. Then there comes danger of obsession, and the work that i do there is no negativity but i assume an

attitude of intense positive attention. I remain in full control of all my senses of perception, and there is nothing automatic in what i do. I simply listen, and take down the words that i hear, and register the thoughts which are dropped one by one into my brain. I make no changes in what i give out to the public, from that which has been given to me, except that i will smooth English, or replace an unusual word with one that is clearer, taking care always to preserve the sense as given. I have never changed anything that the tibetan has given me. If I once did so he would never dictate to me again. I want to make that entirely clear. I do not always understand what is given, I do not always agree, but I recorded all honestly, and then discover it does make sense, and evokes intuitive response." Hmm. Perhaps as as just to give us a sense of this kind of thing that came down from

the Tibetan, could you read the passage on on the foundation of an esoteric school? Is it as- Yes i could as you know that is the paralleling work that Alexander took. This is shorter. And this as i understand it the really large number of volumes which he wrote. Yes twenty four to be exact. Twenty four and- Five of them were her own, the others were dictated by the Tibetan. Is there is there any clear distinction and style between the ones that are are her own, and the ones that came from the tibetan? Uh, with the tibetans later books, the style is very much Alice's own, because by that time they were so accustomed to working together, it was a case of it was a case of mental juxtaposition, and then he would simply throw a though into her mind and she would express it in her own words. Originally in the first early stages, he would pretty well dictate to her. It's a pretty exciting idea of revelation to me you know that, one normally thinks of revelation as a complete stoppage of of the ordinary flow of the prophet or the person, and something else coming, through and she

has a really unique attitude about this, i think. I believe so. So the then the other part of her work was the arcane school. Yes. and so this passage will relate to that. Yes, this is the way the esoteric school is formed, and she says this: "An esoteric school is not formed because some master orders a disciple to form one, the disciple who start such a school preparatory occultism, does so entirely of his own volition. It is his definite self chosen task. He has been serving to the best of his ability in the masters ashram, he is acquainted with world need, he is keenly anxious to be of service, and his conscious of learning all the time, and of the methods whereby he has been taught and led forward along the path. He is therefore a conscious worker, well aware of his duty as a disciple, in touch with his soul, and increasingly sensitive to the masters impression. He does not usually plan to start an esoteric school,

no definite and planned organization should take shape in his mind. He is simply anxious to meet the surrounding need, owing to the fact that he is in touch with his soul, and in the case of more advanced disciples, in touch with the mater and the ashram, his daily life becomes magnetic radiotory and dynamic, and therefore he attracts to him, those whom he can help, gathering them around him. He becomes the central point of life, and a living organism, and not the head of an organization here to analyze the difference between the work of a well intentioned aspirant, and the trained disciple. The world is full of organizations with some person at the head, whose motives are usually sound, but whose methods and approach to those he seeks to serve, are those of the business world. He may build a helpful organization, but he does not found an esoteric school. A disciple becomes the center of a vital radiating group, which grows

and achieves its end because of the life at the center, developing from within outward. It is the force of his life which makes it successful, and not any system of advertising, or claim making, and seldom is if ever is it a commercial success, people respond to the notes sounded into the truths taught, and the influence of the group steadily increases until a disciple finds himself responsible for a group of aspirants. According to the measure of his sole contact, his sensitive response to the master suggestions, and the impression of the ashram with which is affiliated, will be the strength and usefulness of the group with which he works. Very very clear compelling kind of writing. Yes, yes. Can can you give us some idea of your relationship as the present head of the school, um, your name your name your name being Mary Bailey and Alice Bailey, people think you're her

sister or daughter or something. I've been called her sister, i've been called her daughter, its really very simple. I am the second Mrs. Foster Bailey. Foster Bailey was alice's first husband he worked with her for the whole period of her life as a disciple and developing her work both with the books and the school and the other activities that grow out of it and died and died in nineteen forty nine as you probably know and i've been working with him very closely since then and we married some time ago. There's a tremendous amount of material which describes many facets of the of the arcane school and i'm a little bit at a loss exactly how to get into it. there's a very rich philosophical dimension in and is that there's a whole dimension which many listeners might be surprised at which is a strong emphasis on service of humanity and then and the very um pragmatic concerns with, uh, with world

population with world hunger with the possible redistribution of wealth along more equitable lines but i think perhaps the mystically approach the best way to get into the whole thing would be through the great invocation itself which which is the central mantra and which we we've heard as sung by the people at Findhorn. Could you could you intone this invocation and attempt to let it sort of sink into our minds and beings and from there perhaps the whole thing can unfold? I'd be glad to. I don't know about in tune but I'd certainly be glad to to say it, speak it. From the point of light within the mind of god let light stream forth into the minds of men, let light descend on Earth. From the point of love within the heart of god let love stream forth into the hearts of men, may Christ

return to Earth. From the center where the will of god is known, let purpose guide the little wills of men the purpose which the masters know and serve. From the center which we call the race of men, let to the plan of love and light work out and may it seal the door where evil dwells. Let light and love and power restore the plan on Earth. Have you any any a general reflections about the the invocation? That before I ask at some specific questions about it id like to ask. It came it came down through the Tibetan I imagine. It was part of the teaching that Alice received from the Tibetan and there was one general reflection I would like to make and that was the timing of it. It was given to her for the use for use by humanity at the end of The World War in 1945 and that of

course was for a definite reason. It was considered that as a result of the experience of The World War and the Tibetan dates this from nineteen fourteen to nineteen forty five he sees the two aspects as one continuing experience humanity had learned enough through suffering and deprivation and sacrifice so that the meaning and the energy carried by the great implication could really be absorbed understood and used and it was for that reason it was given at the time it's a it was part of the whole effort of the spiritual forces of the planet to to lift and turn human consciousness towards the best understanding of quality and meaning in life i notice that they're there are two streams that are invoked in the first two stanzas and that is the stream flowing from the mind of god into the minds of men and then the stream flowing from the heart of god in the hearts of men

it seems that that mrs bailey had had a particular attitude towards mental development that that usually we consider spirituality and religion centered very much in the feelings and in the sense of love and an uh understanding and intelligence are somehow considered secondary or kind of made servants of the this feeling aspect what how would you speak about that i think that this is due to the fact that we have come up over the past two thousand years perhaps and say life and work of Christ in Palestine through a period when the mystical faculty had to develop and we've gone through the period of the great mysics of medieval mystics and the ability to achieve personal union with god for one second benefit for the most part this was a heart

development a development of the feeling nature but as we move on into the new age the faculty of intelligence or the mind faculty the ability to reason and proceed mentally is necessary but this does not mean that mysticism and is therefore discarded it is simply included in a more comprehensive scale of consciousness the full development of the mind which is in one sense the sole principle in man includes the mystical approach in the mystical experience and mystical perception or in other words the occultist is a practical mystic he adds to his mysticism to his feeling and his love for humanity the ability to be intelligently of service and to be able to subordinate his own will to the will of god to the will of the plan that is working out. The next thing that immediately comes and you referred to is about your reference to christ and

says may christ return to earth as i understand this Christ here is used to mean a coming world teacher were all might be identified him by mahayana buddhism is that as in maitrea buddha the coming buddha or might be identified in the hassidic tradition as the messiah or uh why why why why do you suppose why do you suppose the Tibetan happened upon the particular figures of christ as a as a as a way to represent this coming world teacher and it's just it's interesting that could be in that that he was working to mrs bailey and she had a strong christian background how do you feel about that? about i don't think it was that entirely probably partly but christ the name the term christ seems to be the term applied to the most recent and the most potent

most highly developed uh how can i put it epitaph or divine revelation that has been you know a continuity of divine revelation through the ages and the christ was the most recent he created the greatest effect his influence was more widespread he followed on the immediately as you remarked the buddha who was also a divine embodiment and actually that the buddha did um himself prophesized the appearance of the christ you may know in his own words he referred to the coming of the meitrea buddha but the christ is the point of love at the heart of the planetary heart the great hierarchy of souls the fifth kingdom in the nature if you like and he the the term christ is simply an object but it refers to the same great identity in all the world

one has to somehow establish an identity that people will recognize and the to the christ even if he isn't accepted is so known and his teaching is respected because his teaching fundamental sense corresponds to the basic principles of the teaching in all main world religions principles that christ taught are absolutely fundamental and they live with in all of world religions and perhaps I could just make a comment here we are understand and accept the buddha literally as the great brother of the christ two together and i think this is a very a very to me clear way of trying to explain the relationship they represent the two main aspects of what is the fundamental stream of energy thats sustaining life on this planet the present time energy of love wisdom its a dual energy and the buddha represented the wisdom has become the christ represented the love aspect and they want to get

in that sentence is the same that love would you say love wisdom is a is an important termin in mahayana buddhism they always speak of compassion and insight simultaneously as the two wings of a bird of mahayana it's for this reason i think that the demands of the spiritual hierarchy and our know heirs as a master's of the wisdom and the lords of compassion all the society of human minds they can be described in a way that relates them to any any religion any faith i wanted to ask and then the next stanza of the invocation it it says let purpose guide the little wills of men the purpose which the masters no one served this brings up the whole question of the hierarchy of masters yes and also brings up the question of there continual concern that the free will of human beings be respected and not interfered with in the slightest way and we we we see picture of very poignant picture of discarnate beings of tremendous wisdom and compassion

attempting to guide the somewhat childish of wills of us human beings without interfering with with their freedom can you talk about the hierarchy what a tremendous concept to talk about yes let me think now this of course is one of the fundamental aspects of the work of hierarchy that they do leave human beings totally and completely free after all the members of heirarchy are evolved more highly evolved human beings and they have come up through the same types of experience the same need for discipline and expansion of consciousness that in which we are now involved so these are not beings who would never had a human birth no no each one of them without exception it is an evolved human being that i i understand that in the early days of the palnetary life when the um planetary first incarnated through the form of this planet this was not

was not the case it was necessary to bring in a health and states of consciousness from other parts of the universe in order to establish the necessary centers of energy but today the heirarchy is composed entirely of evolved human beings and at various stages of evolution they are still evolving and growing and learning as we are which is comforting and so is the christ and the buddha fundamental principle of freedom is never infringed under any circumstances because humanity has not only the responsibility but the capacity today because of it's state of evolution to solve its own problems therefore the only function that the members of hierarchy can fill and the only way in which they can work is through impression through making available by mental impression or by if you like energy in the form of ideas to their disciples to those who are responsive and associated with them

energies, ideas, thoughts of the way in which human problems can be solved at the direction in which human life should tend it's very interesting to me to me to see that the spiritual hierarchy are not how should i say it they're not kind of [stutter] monks and nuns are just [stutter] interested in spiritual evolution of people and they're kind of they're almost like workers they're almost like people in government or something like that they're very much a part of the world as Alice Bailey says the overall hierarchical organization has three major divisions one having responsibility for a world political progress or government and its true sense the second having responsibility for teaching in it's three aspects of education religion and healing and a third division having responsibility for all economic progress industry labor and capital relations scientific discovery financed as it pertains to all fields intellectual culture and the arts and this gives one a sense of the flavor of the thing that that it's it's not a

question of simply progress and meditation or something like that it goes right down to [stutter] the basic structure of society I shouldn't say down because it's all into its not in any way lower a lower concern and meditative concern. That of course is absolutely essential the only way we can grow and expand and move and evolve is through the way we apply these our understanding and insights into human affairs there's no other way and humanity is one of the three major centers in the planet we're involved in the larger sense in the evolution of the planet as a whole our planetary life is evolving and the contribution and the cooperation of all the major centers as required humanities one and therefore all centers all interwoven. what are the other two? well the two higher than humanity are the spiritual hierarchy about which we're just talking and the center of her to integrate and great indication as

the center where the will of god is known in other words to give it its technical name Shamballa. But we hear about the plan all the time what is the plan? Uh yes I wish I could tell you because as a matter of fact the plan to the extent that we can put it into words is pretty well pinpointed and great invocation the plan of love and light it's a plan of light and love and power and this is the only way that it's formulated in hierarchy it's then left up to humanity to formulate different types of activity that embody these energies so that human evolution can proceed would you say pretty much the way the plan is understood presently uh with the workers of the arcane school whose main concern is world service in the sense of um preparing the world making [stutter] the planet a truly harmonious place where higher than higher revelations can occur

is that fairly accurate yes it's the plan of the present time is concerned almost entirely with the evolution of consciousness and this is where our work and the work of many other people are focused. but for instance you're you're you're a luscious trust is closely associate with united nations for instance [stutter] well we are accepted as a non-governmental organization yes [stutter] which gives a kind of indication of that this is not happening in an in a monastery in the himalayas this is this kind of services is [stutter] linked right up with economic and political concerns. well this is the whole point and that this is going to be the great achievement during the coming era of the aquarium age that all of these ideas and concepts of the so long who have remained purely abstract have to become concretized they have in other words to be left out and applied and this is this isn't really why Alice wrote these books started the Archean school and then various

other activities in order to provide a means whereby spiritual energy could be made practical reasonable intelligible and applicable and there is no point in accepting any form of assistant teaching no matter how profound and this one can live it out and in daily life and apply it to human problems as humanity evolves it contributes to planetary evolution and we seem to be at the point now in the evolution of the planet with a great deal depends on the human kingdom and the speed with which humanity begins to demonstrate it's spiritual capacity in the way it lives