Minds Behind War; 3; Rommel in Africa

Any team, mind behind war, rumble, take one. Come on, rumble, take one. Come on, rumble, take one. Come on, rumble, take one.

Now, I discovered that that Panzer drive was led by the 7th German Panzer Division, which was commanded by a certain general Irwin Rommel. Now, after the war, I had a chance of studying that particular campaign. And the more I studied it, the more I came to the conclusion that a lot of that drive was due to Rommel himself. I'd like to give you one instance. As they were breaking out of them, our death, they came to the river Mursch, that is, the German Panzer Division for the 7th Division leave. The bridges had been

blown, they ran into strong opposition, and the advance stopped. Rommel immediately went up to the front line, and this was his own words. I found the officers very shaken at the number of casualties which occurred among their men. So I took personal command of the Second Battalion. I crossed the river and the first boat and got the advance going again. Now, that was a typical Rommel performance. He never cared about his own safety at all. He was one of the bravest. And for that, of course the troops loved it. The drive, the initiative to get the whole thing going again, very good. But at the same time, as a divisional commander, you really ought to take command of the leading battalion. Now, he did this over and over again. And when he was doing these little tactical operations with these units, he used to get completely out of touch with his division.

And a matter of fact, after this battle, his chair -so -one, his chief staff officer, complained of the corps. Yes, this would infuriate, wouldn't it? Yes, and of course, mind you, the officers themselves didn't like their battalions being taken over by Rommel. He was always much more popular with the men than he was with the officers. Yes, now some reports have it that he was a dedicated Nazi. Is this true? No, I don't think it was. I think that he was a great patriot. In fact, the two great passions in his life. No three, I would say, were Germany, the war, military matters, and his family. But I think when he came to politics, he's a pretty simple chap. And he saw Hitler as the savior of Germany. I admit that on one occasion, he was in charge of the Hitler -Yugan, you know, the youth movement. But he called with Bansherach and he was out of that very quickly. Then he actually commanded Hitler's own headquarters. Camp Commandant responsible

for transport of administration and so on. Father Dull sort of job. He was there, Muldtenko. Now one day there was going to be one of those immense Nazi rallies, you know, it's a head all over the plate. And he got a message from Hitler to say that he only wanted to be followed by four cars. And not by the long trail of Nazi officials that owes you to follow him everywhere. Sure enough, next morning, outside Hitler's headquarters in the square, was filled with these veterans, full of Nazis waiting to go. Rommel let the first four go and stop the necks from getting Hitler's order. They yelled at him, they abused him, they said with impertinence. And they brushed through. But Rommel had taken further precaution. At every crossroads on the route, he put two tanks. As soon as the first four cars had passed, the tanks came and blocked the route. And he got into a lot of trouble. They all

were furious with him. But Hitler was frightfully pleased. And in Rommel's own words, he thought me a great man from their knowledge. And it was entirely duty -hitler, as a matter of fact, I'm sorry, but that he got come out of that seventh division, because he passed over the heads of a lot of people. Yes. And Juneau said that he was promoted by Hitler from the Tim Campbell to Field Marshal in three years. This is incredible promotion. Incredible speed. Incredible. Particularly in the German. Yeah. Now, can we leave that for a moment? And I'd like you to tell me about his personality. What sort of man was he? Well, Rommel was a square, tough man with a barrel chest, slate gray eyes, gave you an impression of terrific energy. And he was. Every morning, early in the morning, he'd go off and his feistler stowed around the front. He'd never get back to his headquarters till late at night. He lived very simply, just like from the government. And the food in his mess was

deplore, because he wasn't the slightest bit interested in food. I mean, the officers of the mess used to be delighted when they could visit another formation or to get a bit better of food. But he was a great forward commander, tough. How does he compare with Montgomery as a commander? Well, I would say, myself, that Rommel was probably the best armored core commander in the war. He was always up in front. And if the enemy made any mistake, Rommel would take a grip of its straightaway and push through, full of initiative, full of drive, probably a better tactical commander than Montgomery ever was. But while Rommel would be commanding the leaving battalion, or possibly picking up minds as he sometimes did with his own hand, Montgomery, with an ice -cold brain, would be planning not that battle, but the next one, or the next, but one, in other words, Monty was much more of a strategist than Rommel was. He used to go around, of course, always

netfice the storm, you know. Incredible. Now, they were both dedicated soldiers, weren't they? Oh, they were both dedicated. Completely dedicated. I remember one occasion, which I read in book written by ZADC, how he was invited by the Italians to go to Rome for his birthday. Far Rommel was brought down to meet him there, and he went with one of his division commanders, a man called Van Rappenstein. Now, Van Rappenstein was an entirely different man to Rommel. He was a very cultured man who loved the arts. Rommel had no interested in arts at all. He was sold up here and simply. The Italians laid on a wonderful opera. And when they came out, Van Rappenstein was almost drunk with the music. And as he walked across the vestibule, he met Rommel who said to him, one Rommel's time. It's quite time we moved to the division you know from the Maddava sector. That was his reaction. And it might well have been the

reaction I met of Montgomery, perhaps. Now, did he have Montgomery's self -control as well? Would you say? No, that was each week's quality. There's no doubt about that. When things were going well, he was on top of the world, and his health was good, and he was the old warhorse, and always right. But then, for instance, Alamein, he came back from Germany to find a pretty bad situation. He tried to take a grip of it, and he obviously found it very difficult. And he wrote to his wife a letter on which he said, Here I am at towcock in the morning, walking backwards and forwards in front of the lorries, trying to imagine what is going to happen next day. Now, as you know, Monty slept peacefully all night. Yes. He was only working up six times. And the thing which I found, myself very much, because I didn't find it easy to sleep. It isn't too easy to sleep when you've got responsibility, men's lives, no shoulders. If

you don't sleep, you will not be fit to command men next day. And that was a great weakness with Ronald. In spite of that, however, during that withdrawal, right back to Tunisia, when we had superiority in tanks, superiority in the air, everything, it was a very brilliant operation. He handled it brilliantly. Yes. But he was depressed, and his health was done. Then, he got right back into Tunisia, and he turned, and he struck the Green American Army, which had no experience before the casterine pass. And through, went the panzers once more, it was German pan. Immediately, Ronald ordered champagne, and this is the great commander again, on top of the work. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Two temperamentals. And what was his opinion of the British? Well, he had a very high opinion of the British fighting qualities. Well, he should have, because after

all, to broke during that first advance of his, which he never felt was an ulcer in his side. He tried everything to capture it and completely fed. He was a... He thought that as soldiers, there were tough, hard, and poor, well. But he hadn't much use for our command structure. He thought we generals were very slow, and very pompous. And I think in many ways, he was right. We were slow. For why do we learn? But did he respect Monty? Yes, he did. I think he respected Monty. He had respect for him. But he thought again, I think that Monty was over -cautions. Though I must say this, that when my core captured Tunis, one of the German generals, when we captured, said to me, you know, from the time of Montgomery arrived, war in the desert ceased to be a game. But to go back to this

learning, we did learn. Because after all, when we were in Europe, Monty gave orders to my core, that core at that time, to go for Brussels. But we covered 250 miles in six days. Against the good deal of opposition. And the whole core was commanded from one tack. I had the gun taken out, table, staff officers, signal. That was all I never saw in my headquarters. It was all done on walls. Now, that was the way Rommel had it. He perhaps, we learned quite a lot from him. Why was he called a desert fox? How did this start? Well, he was called a desert fox, relating to two reasons. Well, because he was a fox here, oh boy, you know, he used to appear in the most curious places. But he had this cap. He captured some goggles, you know, British goggles. He used to wear them out of the cap. And sticking out of the head of the command vehicle, he would destroy all the lack of foxes, the foxes' ears. But when he first got to Egypt, it was a pretty

difficult situation for the Germans. Wavel's army had got right along to a gala, where they were faced only by the Italians who would be badly beaten. But all costs, they had to save it properly. Now, all Rommel had its sister special, it was the fourth light armor division with very few tanks. What the old fox did was to stage a parade in Chaplin, and all the tanks rolled past. And he went on and on rolling past. And it was, it was sometime before even the Germans realised what was happening. The tanks were going down and then they were going off on the side street and coming back again. The continual moment of tank. And sure enough, who were opponents in the intelligence have about the surprising amount of armor, which Rommel already had in triply, because he knew that agents, British agents, would be watching. They did fall for it. Oh, yes. For the rooster. Undoubtedly. Now, I'd say that it was a gentleman's war, the war in North Africa. Do you agree with that? Oh, yes, I think so. War is a horrible business

anyhow. But if you have to fight wars, it's just well to fight a war where you aren't. Destroying civilian property and civilian population. The only people in the desert, I remember, there was a bedridden, you know, with a tiny little egg that used to walk about. But it was a gentleman's war, and I think that both sides, particularly Rommel, and ourselves, were used to, and the prisoners were properly treated. He also behaved honourably to the prisoners, did he? Rommel, yes. As far as I know, and I think we did. Well, incidentally, how did you treat the prisoners? Well, always, I think, pretty well. Though I have one particular memory, of which I'm not very proud. It happened when we were advancing down to capture Chulis. I was commanding the Ninth Court at that time. I arrived at the headquarters of the Sixth Army Division to find a whole line of German prisoners, about 50. And in front of them was a young officer, a rank. I asked him what was happening.

He said that these people had been in some trenches, these Germans, that held up their hands. When he and his sergeant had gone forward to capture them, they jumped into trench, open fire, and killed the sergeant. Now, they came from a division, which was supposed to have carried out some rather unpleasant thing. So I walked in front of these men, and I said, right, you will be shot. Yes. I'd known, sooner, issued the word. When I realized it, I couldn't possibly shoot. It would be absolutely impossible to order anybody to shoot 50 prisoners. Whatever they want, I couldn't do it. No, could anybody, I don't believe. So how is I going to get out of this home, which I got myself into? So I walked up and down, looking very fierce, and I said, you will be shot, provided this story is true. You will be sent back to a prisoner walk camp. We'll have a court of inquiry. And if it's true, I'm sure you will be shot. Have you got it off my shoulders? Yes. As a matter of fact, there is a secret for just as well, because actually the story

wasn't true. What had happened was that some other British had appeared, had seen all these Germans, had opened fire on them. As these two were walking forward, and the Germans had naturally returned the past and chopped the sergeant. So if I had been sent to stand here, and mind you must remember this, that I don't honestly believe under those circumstances, the Germans, or the Russians, or possibly the French, would have hesitated for one month. Pems were a bit too soft. I don't know, but I can't do it. No, I see. Now, let's pass on to Rommel as commander of the Normandy Defences. What exactly was his job? What did he have to do at this time? Now, Rommel was responsible for 1300 miles from Holland to Luan. And his job was to prevent us landing. Now, Rommel realized the importance of air power, because after

all, we'd had superiority of air the whole way along North Avenue. Now, von Runchstedt, who's his commander, and Hitler wanted to keep all the armoured divisions right back. Rommel said no. We must strengthen those beach defenses. And he said about making them much more difficult for us to land upon. And he would always try to get the reserve, the armoured divisions up close to the beaches, so they wouldn't have far to move, because he knew that under the air hostile air it would be very difficult for them to move. He didn't succeed in getting the reserve divisions up, because they were held back by Hitler, who, as usual, you know, was controlling the resistance. Yes. From the distance, and by von Runchstedt, but he did increase those beach defenses. And I think it's lucky for us that he wasn't there much earlier or the landings would have been very much more difficult. Now, tell me at this time, was the open friction between Hitler and Rommel? Oh, yes. Not only could you be coping with the situation. Hitler and Rommel, but Hitler and

all those generals. Because, you see, once we were ashore, thanks to the terrific air power, which we have, it prevented any reserves coming out. The German generals on the spot realised that the war was really lost. The only thing they could do was to pull back behind the same and reform they could have delayed us by doing that. Hitler wouldn't have it. Again, it was giving up ground, just like an element, no, no, he wouldn't give up ground. He ordered the army to counter it. And the situation got steadily worse. Now, eventually, the induced Hitler to leave his headquarters, miles away on the eastern front, and come to a place called Margivar, where a conference took place. Now, it was very interesting, because Rommel's chief of staff wrote a brilliant account of this particular conference, which I think is a very historical one. There was Hitler sitting crouched on his stool. All

his hypnotic partage, and he's a great hypnotist. All gone, sitting there, and round him stood all the generals and the marshals, and he reviled them and cussed them and told them that they weren't fighting the battle properly and so on. Eventually, Rommel driven by, to fury by this, turned to the fury and said, it is time you entered the war and saved the German people suffering. Hitler turned on him and said, you go back and fight your battle the proper way and leave the conduct of war to me. And then the description of the meat. Yeah, it was Hitler sitting with a plate, and on it was vegetables and rice piled up, and all Rommel little bottles of pills and medicines, which he took all the time, and spined his chair with two of those SS police. And that was the man, that miserable creature was the man, whose it hadn't been for this country, might have dominated the world. Yes, the great, the German fury. Exactly, yes, yes. Exactly. Of course, mind you, the

situation steadily got worse, as they knew it would. And on the 16th of July, I think it was a month later, Rommel wrote a message to Hitler, demanding that he should make peace in the West. See, what they were frightened of the Russian. They wanted to make peace here, so they have more people to deal with the Russians, because they knew what would happen back then, because they were run by the Russians. And having sent this message away, he said, this is his last chance. If he doesn't act, I will do something about it. Now, this is this where the bomb plot starts. Now, this is where the bomb starts. A lot of the general staff officers were determined to kill Hitler. They were very peaceful. Rommel never wanted to kill him. He just wanted to take him under arrest and try. But two days after this particular

letter had been sent, he was driving along this car and a British aircraft spotted him. Flew down, low flying attack, smashed the car, killed the driver, and badly wounded Rommel. Now, Rommel was the only man whom the army would have followed if they had been over. Yes. Two days later, the bomb was exploded by Vomstuffenberg, the suitcase under Hitler's tape. Hitler wasn't killed, but he was wounded. Even so, had Rommel been alive, the army might have made peace if they could. But Rommel was in hospital. In hospital? Recovering from his room. Then, of course, Hitler turned on the generals and everybody. And they were all tried publicly and hundreds of them were hanged in public. Now, I think Rommel realized what was going to happen because he went into his room and put on his favorite chuny, which was his Africa callcoat. The coat he'd worn always when he was in charge of the desert

army. So, General Tharive went into a room. Rommel came out and said, Hitler accuses me of being a traitor. Because of what I did in Africa, I'm to be allowed to die by my own hand. These generals have poisoned, which I am to take, and which will kill me in three seconds. If I refuse, I will be tried publicly. If I accept no actual be taken against me, or my family, or my own company, he then said goodbye with a perfectly straight face. Put his marshals back and under his arm, walked out with these generals one on either side, got in the car and drove away. Twenty minutes later, there was a telephone message that Rommel was dead. His family went to visit him that night in Ohm Hospital, and there he was lying dead with an expression of contempt on his face. And that was the way one of

Germany's greatest generals died. And to add insult to Italy, I want to read you what Phar Rommel got afterwards. This is from Hitler. Except my sincerest sympathy for the heavy loss you have suffered in the death of your husband. The name of Phil Marshall Rommel will be forever linked with that heroic battle in North Africa, signed at all Hitler. Now, Rommel tried to save the German people months of unnecessary suffering. Although he failed, I think you know that his name and some of those others will go down to history as one of the heroes of that modern Greek tragedy, because that's what it was. Would you say that Rommel was a typical product of the German general's style? Oh, no. No, no, no. Completely different. He was the modern type of general, the old German general's style, or terrific.

Von Roonstipp was one. Well, he was typical of that type of general presumably. Von Roonstipp, yes. After the war, Von Roonstipp was in the prison of war camp in Western command, quite in, I think, on the borders of Wales, by remember correctly. Anyhow, it was under my orders, and I used to go down and see him. And we used to discuss the battles every again. And one day I said to him, is there anything I can do to help you with this camp out of professional soldier? And you are? He said to me, yes, General. He said there are German general's in this camp, who call, I said, Germans, who call themselves generals, who are not generals at all. And it's very unpleasant for us, the old German general staff to mix with them. So I looked at him with astonishment, and I said, were you looting to him? Oh, he said, you don't expect us for the general staff to have to mix with general doctors and general engineers. Now, you see, that's the old general style. A sort of, like, almost like a religion,

a law entirely unto themselves, extraordinary people. A rumble, of course, had great support from his family, from his wife, didn't he? Yes, now there was something, of course, that Montgomery didn't have, because, you know, his wife died, and it made a great deal of difference to him, his wife's death, and drove him into himself. A rumble was devoted to both his wife and to his son, Memphis. And he used to write long letters to his wife. I don't know if it's perhaps the author of it, but he did. At different stages in the battle, showing how he felt and so on. And these letters have been of great use, you know, in building up. Yes. The picture which we've been able to form of this rally, a remarkable man. Would you say that it was an essential thing for a wife? I mean, Eisenhower also had this great family affection, didn't he? Yeah. He had to hide him and waver, I believe. A waver had, yes. I think you know, it's a firm base for anybody to have. Yes. A wife.

Well, I think we've got to be careful what they write. But now I think Rommel is extremely indiscreet in some of the things he said. Of course, it seems that Rommel never had any other interests apart from, rather like Montgomery, again, apart from being a soldier. Abs. No, he loved skiing apparently. Yes, he loved skiing. And I think at one stage of his career, he commanded a mountain division. I believe. Or mountain troops. What was his greatest quality, do you think? Oh, listen. There's no doubt about his greatest courage. No, no. I would say that, yes, I think so. You're right. Courage. Absolute devotion to duty. Courage. And a single track mind as regards any battle which he was fighting. I would say that those were the qualities. I wish. This

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