1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-05-22; Part 4 of 8

moose and we're rather extend to test this in the courts with respect to endure a suspicion that are richard did you conduct any investigation and your premise is to determine whether there was actually contact and would you find it

in september nineteen seventy eight that normally when you go through a particular procedure with it if there is an extension of an extension all the testing are certain types of devices are being used on the line there is an alarm sounded somewhat like a pleasure and i would make these erotic way through the fall of the year and it would go into alarm very summit with us there are so many phone calls that have some very unusual things that occurred one color come in which we would hear extensions being picked up shortly after the cops and of

this question then on the bases are under investigation including definitely that your phone had been tapped about now and we also under the impression that as you spoke to other parties that your conversations may have been recorded during our time communicating with anybody about this case about this case and how many occasions it just like this or are you certain that this occurred during september and october and when you mentioned the occurrence of these things to call you believe you indicated that cited only two instances referred to specific also concerned about all these other things of that happening that led me to believe that if you

complain to anyone else i'm a lawyer well allegedly differences in your emotions with respect to your statements under previous testimony that you were under the impression that the president knew how the clemency offer would you please refer to refresh my memory as to the actual conversations that lets you into this belief is from the information and knowledge that led me to

believe that stem of conversations them from conversations with instability gordon liddy in january and february of nineteen seventy two and which it only about the meanings of the attorney general in the attorney general's office is with mr dean rosen was the operation was deliberating he stated that link the pros and cons of the operation presumably meaning the advantages and disadvantages of a lot of beer purity and deliberate consideration and careful consideration given to the operation by the attorney general probably the state had that there was a thirty

day delay which to me seemed quite significant that the attorney general this was in my opinion a very decisive man my question going back to january of nineteen seventy two and they fire they're my question was what made you have to believe that the opera clemency had the endorsement or approval of the president the statement to call the all to me i don't really relate to those statements again because they are stated that he was carrying the message of executive clemency to make those

specifically yes sir quote from the very highest levels of the white house and quote before his exact words he stated that the president of the united states who is in key biscayne florida we can have been told of the forthcoming meeting with me this lovely on friday february and january i mean meeting with me did you check with yesterday after your meetings to ascertain whether or not the offer and then the response have been communicated to the president well they are meeting would be

communicated with the first meeting of the north where the fighting that meeting he and i were them having been having with the community to get to the president but he said i may have a message to you at our next meeting the president himself this is an exact quote the juror receive a message to mr caulfield recording of the communication from the president came back to me and subsequent meetings discussing executive clemency and a large number of other matters he did not specifically state that the burdens of the now you mentioned that you received a note in your box brown now mr caulfield which was named jack talked you also mentioned a letter which you wrote two musical do you address that get jacked are we on a first name basis with that i call you

i first met him when he contacted me about a job in september that was my first meeting with the first amendment now was he the first person connected even with the white house on the committee to ask you to come to work the way they don't listen to me professionalism and vigilance secret service that i have now said that there was a possibility of a position opened campaign security working seventy two campaign ad that they have an aunt is my answer was some commitment on september seven one thing about an intimate conversation my answer was i would like to hear about it and he says we may be getting a call i shouldn't that has evolved to call it who was that person and secret service won't really when he'd now

going to be a matter of receiving reports from the internal security division of the department of justice and when labor this point there are many reports that you receive from this tv and political reasons and are terribly the number of meetings that i have with my probably guess the number of poor service all their separate individual reports libya sizeable number have an estimate for how many meetings that you have seems to me that the meetings began in late may nineteen seventy two and continued until wednesday june seventeenth and i went on a porsche that period to miami florida so i mean i would have to say that and how many

reports that you see that's probably twenty five are home how many of the reports that you take none by the jamaican he notes and what there were these reports about them violence in washington and miami florida specifically in connection with republican national convention in connection with the democratic national convention could you deal with that the internal security division mainly last year until you deal with others that tomorrow now did you have any access to any fbi reports

some of your what i saw we're hearing referred to learn the fires at viet minh trail by whom i believe did you in a big huge tech where these particular report and added you see any attribution to the fbi on the face of the report's solo now the question of when a corrupt you mentioned a las vegas trip you mention that that there were two trips maybe you'll buy mr livio a restaurant which was and no one was to place the greens on top earners to determine whether or not the reagan could take places that correct i was there any

actual making of the location you know you went to work for the republican national committee in october and you work with them and for them until january is that origin race and you know then that you were on their payroll at six hundred dollars a month while the party i get it you but they will let the sci fi work on that a lot to worry about this week and what was your salary with the crp from january until june seventeenth oh is that all you have the republican national committee

and what is that and how long did you work for the republican national committee now you mentioned also that in their december some of you are older defendants get together somewhere for a strategy meeting with respect of the trial is that correct mo they do get together at any time in december are before the trial with respect to nine years managing editor of the night the other defendants her they are true before the

trial and you can discuss anything there with respect to the author of clemency are any help from the individual that the white house or in government or a crp our conversations of the way so at this meeting with the foreigner was talking about pleading guilty or not i can't measure whether executive clemency was missing at that point i am i think that was by stating that the executive clemency

had used a lot of them promised not nyu in constant touch with ms and during the course of the trial what is your name now that was in it on the first date i have a weekly revue mr mccourt statement before the senate select committee and while it does not fully reflect my best recollection of the avengers took place between he and i were in january of this year it is true that i met with mr mccourt on three occasions in january and conveyed to him sent messages from a high white house official now the

eligibility i don't know what it might mean but a new statement that you still state that what you said that that this committee was correct as far as he knew the fire as you recall thank you were turned down the overtures far as executive clemency will air number of reasons taking executive committee meetings

gather discuss be the one so in many ways as the senators take a well earned a luncheon right then another dimension of james mccord motive the more he said he was afraid that young turks would use ford's press credentials to get inside the republican convention and create disruptions the court said he had no knowledge that a double agent was involved in the watergate burglary and he repeated his conversations with john caulfield about offers of executive clemency impacts coverage of the areas we'll continue after this offer station identification on a bridge to coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of

pbs a public broadcasting service well yes and that continues its coverage of

hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent jim lehrer there is continuous and standby for a firsthand lesson in how bug telephone by james mccord i think that one of the areas that is the role of the person who was on the other side of the wire which you install and maybe in a nineteen seventy two how did you volunteer oh this is it and what was the answer cause i was on the radio that received the transmissions from the democratic national committee telephone what's the electronic devices have been installed in connection with

that nineteen seventy nine on the seventh will go across the street from the democratic national committee headquarters or can you see the chart on the easel there mr wainwright yeah which was you he would listen with headphones and the conversations that are being transmitted and wouldn't take down the substance of the conversations

the time they only a yellow legal by tyne people summary and turned low and julie and i would deliver them and deliver it directly yes out there come a time when you were delivering those lost it's not an oath at least one who was that occurred because only read that was your understanding of that in a lot of ways he wanted them in a more final complete form

for discussion with mitchell are and rebels receive them oh this week it would sell a family jr was a secretary at a community relations you have occasion to allow us and the occasion for her years of the intimate conversation he gave you while a lot will on the law it would be similar to any other telephone conversation that one person might make another beginning

a statement on his blog at the time and who is calling summary of what was said during the conversation itself including names of persons who were mentioned to us to voluntarily value significance of fashion significance to support the law that's correct now i think what youre just let it concerning meetings he had with the attorney general indicated that that meeting with the attorney general with regards to this operation what this

is immediately before june seventeen during an estimate during that week immediately preceding him legions of the biggest lobbying indicate what the major but meanwhile political disappointment is sung subsidies some conversation as originals conversation or to the fact that were we discuss getting ready for the operation that's coming up i think just overall planning for the operation when you were briefly the information that you're getting from the internal security division was literature at miami related in any way to the bottom of justice's

investigation of the veterans against the war no one here at the investigation that you engage and architect through related to the department of justice investigation we lived in miami corporal i begin your testimony indicated that information you're receiving from the internal security division and other information related in some respects to activities of the veterans or vietnamese was your activity in getting that information or an investigation you working on behalf of the combat related in any way to be an investigation of the pot just like in with sam grow if the

incident that whatever information i was acquiring separate department internal security division was being transmitted back to them the answer would be no it was a one way it just really it was a break for persons innovation to be involved in the new names the bar mitzvah service i think you also mentioned in the first script and there were three additional reason to name them with you know that i don't really use for certain have been chosen for the fbi if you want me to relate that you do not know the names of your own photographs of person that a

company or the first i've seen to fourteen arrests then that i believed were in that first operation as a result identification carbon in geneva says the names of islam heard were printed not to associate with the photographs were unknown one individual was i believe at diego and the other name associated with photographs out of five thousand is ronaldo partying and i help heal people vs evil the court placed

under tables and it's been what i would like to testify if you have the bastards of the committee that manner which you placed so called on the telephone like as the receiver to please take the receiver over my home as writers and i said no now i will show you a

iron which is less energy as an exhibit a citizen sixteen be at the trial and i understand was taken from your possession or in the senate where you are one were arrested and i think as a teenager has been a piece be this is radio which is part of a parliament on system with online itself and it was like you know what but telephone

conversation when that transmitter is is it capable of would you just demonstrated it would place before you cover would be taken off a little so that they cannot go home and to have the wireless connectivity us would be eliminated in syria the wiring within itself and the this is the end which would be concealed underneath

the device itself we likewise concealed underneath some portion of the places that could be a foot technically find out what you're getting