1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-20; Part 1 of 4

the pope shane and shane and has the delivery to missoula room was made to parts on two occasions december or january after talking to mr dean i took approximately forty thousand dollars into envelopes to monsieur le roux at his apartment authority i live two blocks away and the delivery was made on my way home from work later i was asked to return the remainder of the money i can call mr mcgrew who again asked if i could deliver to him at his apartment on this occasion before picking up the money mr lew donned a pair of gloves and then said i never saw it at that point i became more than a little suspicious frankly after <unk>

put on the gloves and i know what to say so i said nothing wrong in the senate of the united states a resolution to establish a select committee of the senate to conduct an investigation and study extended family in which illegal or unethical activities were engaged in by any persons acting individually or in combination with others in the presidential election of nineteen seventy two when the campaign canvasser other activities related to and from washington and that brings you gavel to gavel videotape today's hearing of the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities he's a senior correspondent mike new meaning the committee return today to the task of laboriously reconstructing the links in the chain that lead from watergate to the white house there were no startling revelations today and no hopes telephone calls we heard from a

young former white house aide who said h r haldeman was aware that there was a campaign intelligent one in april nineteen seventy two but gordon strong who was the link between the committee to relax and haldeman and the white house says he never knew the specific details of the plan beyond its three hundred thousand dollar budget and that left open the question of whether haldeman you what lithium carbonate were getting into strange remarks came in an opening statement but the committee didn't have a chance to develop further strong followed robert martin the former assistant attorney general and deputy campaign director we said when it is just too the justice department was retreating files and white house ordered wiretaps from the fbi martin had won the president fbi director j edgar hoover could use the logs to create pressure on mr nixon the leftover keep his job on monday the committee should have a better idea of whether present the president nixon is going to turn over case of conversations he had with john dean and others at the close of today's session impact correspondent peter carey asked she

counsels sam dash of that would be acceptable at the tapes were released a special prosecutor archibald cox mr cox there's a special prosecutor was an independent responsibility and i would assume that mr cox and carry out his responsibilities would seek only evidence that he couldn't carry has responsibilities and that would include these tapes i think that we have an independent a right to have them as a quote the french government which has the power of subpoena and the bows and if that's relevant to the resolution authorizing us to conduct this investigation including the position committee that the particular tapes were talking about as well as documentary evidence cannot be i'll admit that these things that were seeking to the slower than that and therefore we do not expect to

have to i'm mark for most accounts within the employee from paris marc maron out with pulitzer prize winning washington bureau chief of the mourners had been international syndicated columnist and for one year special counsel an embarrassment to president nixon watched today's hearing session with us must mark what would you pinpoint as something to watch for as we see that here is tonight well i think that it's essential that one keep in mind both bob martin and gordon strawn other witnesses to day our lawyers and have both the purpose of avoiding criminal prosecution and this bond and a very clearly tried to walk the line to avoid that eventuality an but in addition to that they did try to avoid involvement of others beyond

what's already in the evidence at this stage and it was interesting to me one of the most important things with regard to clock mcgregor whose testimony clock mcgregor its position as director of the campaign our clock macgregor was the spokesman for the crucial period last fall he put up all large number of false inaccurate statements martin tells us that he tried to warn clark mcgregor doing that crucial group and that clot mcgregor rather than accepting this and listening to it shut them off by saying i won i was told that there was normal worker involved took the job are i don't want to know anything else so again we're lot more detail a conversation that there might be a considerable detail on that and i think it's quite significant because clark mcgregor his role has largely been one other is not and time stopped at this point but mama will be

back at the close of the live broadcast to discuss this and other points in more detail to be join them by david epstein awash an attorney an adjunct professor of law georgetown university law center here in washington the president returned to the white house from bethesda naval hospital today said he expected to go back on a regular schedule after a weekend at camp david the german speculation that he would quote poppycock and in london today of former white house domestic chief john ehrlichman added his voice to the chorus suggesting the president should release the watergate related tapes recorded within the white house today was a relatively short run for the committee that there are still several hours of testimony to sort through here is our regular preview of what happens when in the first hour robert martin continues his testimony saying that his oath as an attorney prevented him from passing along information liddy told him when he was a lawyer for the committee to reelect and martin tells of retrieving sensitive surveillance lots of white

house ordered telephone taps after being one that fbi director hoover could use them as a club to hold onto his job under questioning and the second hour martin admits that libby was involved in the administrations handling of the pentagon papers case and martin says the president told him that his entire ability to govern could be jeopardized if news leaks continue and the third hour martin tells of his frustration when he tried to seek campaign director talk mcgregor in july nineteen seventy two one in the eighties were involved in watergate that that wouldn't talk with him and martin says that during his years at the justice department the internal security division never requested any wiretaps for domestic intelligence purposes strong introduces himself and the fourth hour the lakes are mcgregor called him from the senate committee had a sophisticated intelligence system that's so strong he never learned of the specifics for the bacon and after that event he recalls he tried to talk with the owner was in california visiting going to discuss the whole

situation with a job in today's hearings to continue i'm sure you won't mind ensure that a witness won't mine injected we are seeing this morning after our set goals that i want to market the real deal as india while i might

say is this david thank you they're just annoying as other what is it seven great line and there has been an exhaustive examination that he also committee member committee and today committee members a

week ago it is clear that there are certain essential complex in your testimony and that day there are other apparent complex in between your testimony and that spy as talk about giving testimony for mo you have any idea from when you last fall mr dean about what a more particularly do you have any recollection of having discuss her testimony or his testimony that would be given before this committee i don't know that i've talked to john doing since i left washington on november the tenth it's possible i saw him during the inaugural ceremonies but i have not discussed with him my testimony know he his testimony with a heavy

red meat opening statement to the committee believe that i read i don't think i read the entire transcript that i may have spent some time are there any other points in the testimony on the mcgregor testimony or the stands testimony that to be a law based on your information but there's just there any other important significant events which you have it better than i would have to go over his testimony in his field particularly significant things though there may be some significant problems rather than asking you to go for that testimony now opening statement yesterday workers over two hundred and forty eight and the mugger

testimony was rather extensive it was scary stan would you be agreeable mr martin to be reviewing those three pieces of testimony and the testimony of mr mitchell on my form and more on this record and a letter later any other important and significant discrepancies discrepancies in that they don't work with your recollection of events about which you have now yes if i'm furnished with transcripts i don't have that i don't lee would you be returning it necessary to expel other on any such point yes sir that's chairman as unanimous consent that at me all testimony would be mr mcgregor yeah that he may be permitted the supply and that has a link and is that

cow notations the blazers really understand a committee by asking for or all but i'm not placing any time limitation on that martin obviously want to movies that was recently can show it's applied information operation when you need not completed before you send any particular portion chickens and that if you do them right and then there's the pain a lot more than justice department mr martin did you have any dealings with mr levine yes are us or call hummers operation at the white house in

which mr leddy was apparently anbar i wasn't aware of the farmer's operation until after the watergate break in and i recall reporter for me time magazine i believe who asked me if i was aware of the plumbers and i didn't i didn't but was more and i had heard the word must have they had a sign on the door called plumbers and i said well i didn't go buy that go awry but you're not a lawyer or justice or particular events in which they were you know so you're talking mostly about anything that you now about i think one of the commerce operation those are my friends meeting with

mr libby and i don't think i was aware that he was instantly at the time was what i i traded the treaty between the justice department fbi and alcohol tobacco firearms division the staffs of the two agencies the iranians became a milestone because of the conflict have jurisdiction over the bombing statute that enacted by congress gave joint investigative jurisdiction early a jurisdictional dispute mr solomon you made me aware of the conflict that's just they come to my office they suggested i don't know we sat down over a period of a day or two and work out a six month agreement which we call trading whereby they would try to operate under divided up types

of cases each would investigate mr libby was a part of that group a circle and make your lead in that connection i don't think so my dealings remaining with mr roh cds sector receives and sullivan so the reason the social directly at or us assistant attorney general for internal security jeremy conversations with mr gray oh his predecessor mr who were about any man robinson there's no sir mr deans they believe in an executive session i'm not sure especially in the public record on june sixteen nineteen seventy three

we certainly have and that you were critical the fbi's of robbery investigation i have no recollection of the meeting i told the committee staff that i was aware of that mr dean did have fbi report of the only documents that i'm aware of all right and it was an fbi teletype for mr gray to i believe all of the fbi offices in connection with the investigation will be but years as attorney general

you're talking about the climbers route for internal security functions being carried on the white house knows that you're talking about the white house they're in their relationship to be at the airport and just a note are not going to be about you know three if mr hoover had been aware of the plumbers who've i think we would've heard about it and be aware that once anderson that that talk about mr hoover retiring resigning after years you have any personal knowledge our conversation mr gruber about the situation knows any idea why the white house didn't take over some of what i would think of this internal security operations instead of leaving it in your apartment or witty the pure speculation the pure speculation and speculate if you prefer not to

say it with him to the epidemic as long as that speculators based on your perception of the attitude relationships or any factional me if you think that would be helpful the record would be and i can only say that permit lack confidence in joe adalian and in the justice department lawyers are being the internal security division federal bureau investigation of the vote within the gamut of the internal security division us you have any reason to think there was a lot of well let's go basis my speculation i can't think of any other reason for creating such a group for more

revelations the justice department well i just drew the conclusion that if they felt they had to do it they were going to have a lack of confidence in us if you sense any resentment in your department of the jurors that the transfer these functions and part of what else there are do you have and you know i had no knowledge of any transfer many functions from justice department to the white house it's morning edition they briefly nordic that parents is rapidly as possible a few questions about have clarification

us mr rew if we had known about breaking and ahead of time i can't recall any specific time i said fred de juno but it had a time until after these hearings start at thirty i asked him he called me he was going to the us attorney's office i asked him on that occasion jiang grew up on me i don't think the question that i asked him about was specifically about the break in itself did he know about the activities and he said yes yes

sir i may be mistaken as to what he said at the time i said to my next question as i recall it at that time was did john know about it i had a time he said yes yes i then said what does jon say he said john says no house subsequently after my parents for i believe the grand jury i talk to friends you called me and asked me about what transpired with reference to him i said they asked me to five talking they asked me but everybody i talked to as i believe the only person i have talked with fred larue i related what i just told you and fred said my god i didn't say that i said yeah i don't think i

said that so i could be a mistake of giving you my best recollection it will also close confidants how white house officials the president said you personally held opposition justice for the responsibility of upholding the country why did you involve yourself and cover a warranty mr mitchell testified reason he did it was because brain president lobo others because this only white house set prove this operation what was your reason senator i don't know what you mean by cover up if you mean by a cover up my not being forthcoming and disclosing everything i knew i felt miles an

attorney prevented me from doing that now and at the end of the post a review and mr mcgrew mr mitchell own doonan i mean is there a call and there is some concern about forty thousand dollars the rule that he made his statement as opposed to make sure that even the crew two hundred and fifty thousand dollar budget is mr mitchell and sandy of remedy partly stage tonight sometime they're about so any day to recall a much much interested in the data as i am said that in conversations often daily news i believe subsequent to that was probably the latter part of that week i think it was a twenty third or fourth i ask mr mcgregor in the president's mr

mitchell how much money he had given to mr libby he said he had given us to live the euro crisis longest to libya fourteen thousand dollars i must have registered a surprising said forty thousand dollars and mr mitchell did much the same thing he turned to mr mitchell he said let's not much out of a total budget of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars less to mitchell's answer was that the campaign hasn't even started yet the best of my recollection of that you understood that declaration on board with mitch mayne that he had approved the two hundred and fifty thousand operations these is you want my i don't know the thought crossed my mind that mr michel

authorize a two hundred and fifty thousand based on a conversation i heard i would assume that mr mitchell it not having denied that statement to acquiesce to his response wasn't i didn't authorize two hundred and fifty his response was a campaign hasn't started here something like that you get like a trip in july and they haven't won a mockery acclaimed see the breadth of the united states and san clemente san clemente california guests are at the president's request us what was the reason for the trip prior to my making that trip through insolvent social director of the fbi came to see me and told me wonder talking about a very sensitive matter he told me that he i

guess it expresses to me for some private time he industry who are not getting along very well he anticipated because remove the social director of the fbi utah there were some very sensitive national security surveillance logs that were not we use the word in chattel i don't know that he did but they were not kept in the ordinary course of business you are kept it in his safe in his office he felt that the highly sensitive nature of these tapes were such that they should not be kept there especially if he were to be removed from office he

was concern about what might be done with these tapes and i'm not positive i don't know what mr sellars recollection ends of my recollection is it mr hoover might use these tapes for the purpose of preserving his position as director of the fbi and he felt that the white house should be aware of this i told him that i would convey and this information to the attorney general and president's direction i didn't talk to the present that time i had mentally attorney general my conversation with subsequent that i have not heard from the attorney general lives

in several inquiries with so and i said i have done what i said i would do subsequent to that i got a call i believe it was on a sunday call was from the western white house i think it was mr bergman it may and it may have been that holleman told me that the president would like to talk to me that and whether it would be convenient for me to take the courier mail plane goes back and forth from enders too el toro marine base i believe on a regular daily basis those one day what i'd be able to take the courier playing that day so that i would be available to see the president following morning i said i would be philip andrews and i took that very quickly

and what it is you want a conversation with the president president reagan to do the report solomon and they directed me to obtain the reporter goes to sell them and deliver them to a stripper and educational guesses and what did those tapes and sharon lee tapes he concerned electronic surveillance authorized by the president and i was told at the request of the director of the national security council and what happened is still in the white house understand from news reports that they're in the position the bureau the reason at that time with the list of who will live and access to these

records i think it related what i was told and you have to draw their own conclusions from that senator i was what solomon told you and what you reported yes sir now you quit your committee assignment that is the committee to re elect president at least three times and lucius they all how you we end of the scale by persuasion and others after the disclosures were made me mad by mr liddy i just thought i did not could not adequately represent the committee and i as i said i've never practiced from the

lawn i've never had disclosures of that type never made it you felt like you had no surgeries was placed in a very difficult position you are right mr bateman as twenty five thousand dollars more than what he might only meant that senators to contemplation she put out that happened in my immediate reaction seem like an excessively represent a person who was charged with a burglar how many of the people that represent the league one person what was the lawbreakers i don't know i did know that twenty five thousand and a german police i think it was ever live on a new fifty

shades fall it was mostly represents council's board council suggests to answer a question that i didn't even know he had obtained a twenty five thousand dollars until these proceedings comments the most modern have no further questions to modernize three years on this it really is as i understand your testimony you were in your own words the attorney for the committee here for a few weeks following the writing an interview disengage from those

divisions want to political to the extent that i could hear it and a great many people and witnesses before we can marry and all my question is is this the watergate break in and bugging going any piece of information at all in the salinas valley speculation centered

on anything no sir yesterday yesterday that he revealed anything about a day or a moment or being used to conjecture with me is to work laws of war let's go back to have a meeting with liddy because that obviously is a very important meeting where you really are the only witness so far has given us any information on one was livid

there was a key figure called before the committee leading the committee mr levy thank you for fourteen the president was not testimony no i don't believe i said the water rights or i said that the operations of the group in which he was working i've been an ongoing operation with watergate was one now what did he mean by the group of regions where did he was well it came to that about with reverence too

question that i asked uncertainty sirens calling the only answer that you may recall some of the newspaper accounts and it was then that he said that he was working with prose than a considerable experience this was just one of their jobs they have done many they have all been successful i presume from that that they were the same group of other words once were caught along with mr levy mention any names no sir twenty seven he had to testify it's a type of business even engage in

chief planner is there a call for the bay of pigs invasion these are things he told me yes oh no i don't he had violated his instructions in hiring mr mccourt and his instructions were not hire anyone connected with the committee who gave him of instructions i believe he said it seemed rather in congress to me for him to say that because he was an employee of a canadian astronaut was an important that was that is what he said mr mcgrew dirt all i'm not mr mccall that's my best recollection walnut mr mccourt not hire anyone that had any connection with the league

committee or the white house these instructions instructions was i don't recall any other options other than his statement that he and mr hahn had not wanted to go into the watergate and that he had done so only at the insistence of mr mcgrew that was his state why did he say he didn't want to go into what i think that was in response to my question that seemed like a very foolish adventure that didn't make any sense to break into the democratic national committee headquarters did you discuss the word too long that went undetected and the second one that was detected only to the

extent that as i recall what is legally was that it plays the boogie in the wrong office that's my best recollection from the instructions i don't recall him as having said that that's when he stated the purpose of the injury was and all this is related you're talking about humans yes you were discussing any other branch not accept at this time where there's discussion of the other and then just came up with it

we've really discussed i might say i haven't asked to speculate i didn't put any credence in that minnie told me any more than i did in his statement to the shredder hundred dollar bills tribal leaders now what do you mean if you go into those rice told staff i i guess i could have been a better interrogators had i not been in shock and i think i've said his council points out i cannot recall is using the word president i did testify

that it was the words he used were clearly meant to imply that and that's the way i understood that you know actual a color image and i'm all out of there that i think is really important too richard justice and that wasn't true were you going to close did he say he discussed the budget with john legend isaac term budget the mayor said financing the operation i use that word but it

may have been wrong in general i tried to recall as best i can the conversation eric i remember that one better than most because social disclosures or they can't remember your bracket pools were to send budget the mayor said it was financed with the approval of mr mitchell in the white house you may notice said budget ideas but again on that's going to make you ask him at all or one that john mitchell who knows that did you sorry i'm asking questions that you might have asked him about justice asking senator at the time he was telling me these things i wasn't i wasn't believing much of it because i was taking it as a defensive statements justify ms kahn so you didn't

call at all i don't think that the business about the white house approving either the budget of the money of the operation did you ask who in the white house approve those certainly of implied that maybe didn't say the president i don't think there's any further up any higher didn't know that if it's necessary i had forgotten this until mr lew testified he did say as i recall now that that he would never talk he would take the fifth amendment and that we if we didn't have confidence in that that he would make himself and he did say that he was

air but that if we would designate a particular street corner for him to stand up he would make himself available for the shop holder says mr you used the term assassinated i used that maybe because of that voice and what was your reaction to you much the same reaction to everything else it was a very bizarre story and i had never heard one like it before in my life so i can only when characters just one final series of questions have been asking many of the witnesses have you ever had any meeting a conversation with president nixon on this one

issue those who never simple no and you never heard anybody say anybody in the committee to reelect president or outside of that material present in the white house or elsewhere in the day knew anything about any little piece of information about whether president knew about wanting to move up a couple of those melanie of your conversations with manure or any of these other people no longer spacial information

one described his special center he was i understand it did receive information from the dea and the visual information that the justice department or me i mean i wasn't that everything's a few companies do information relating to the potential for civil disorder at the republican national convention was this information overload or the public that was available to any entity that might be the subject no violent civil disorder and the appropriate people that should know of the lead of the

potential so that they might assess it the job security division investigations of russian also knows are we were not an operational vision investigations of members of congress knows her way as i say oh there's been some misunderstandings and some of the testimony operational functions it obtains i would guess and it so testified over eighty percent of its information from newspapers young people it's turned out as a summer group of the night in nineteen sixty seven there's young

people college students it was under the auspices or was initiated by ramsey clark in response to the kerner commission i would say that that just five eighty percent of it was public information that they put together other information came from the federal bureau investigation and other agencies alcohol tobacco firearms and they were something and local police would supply information if it related to anything which the federal government might become involved in jurisdictions need justice department or europe or wherever and a division within that people had ever conducted investigations of members of congress that time are you certain that in your conversations with

mr mitchell mr mitchell never discussed his knowledge of the pre watergate meetings with you never served does that suggest to you the security of the united states mr mitchell in your profile is also you've never discussed and having visible i didn't realize i had a profile of settings my sponsor is your testimony that at no time to discuss what it only has to talk about watergate with him quite often of what you're

referring to discussing that one thing is that any discussion is never disclosed to me in the discussion that i can recall the president i'd states on any subject that may have been that that comes tomorrow in the early days of our proceedings it was suggested that the major reason for the watergate break in us national security and the stomach for another suggested that information was awesome available which were and they gave the members of the impossible for all we're all just for the convention servers in the united states members of the democratic party

they have answer your question and respond to a certain reasons i know of no information that was ever brought to my attention that anybody in the democratic party chose sponsored by any foreign power that they pose any threat at all in the form of violence or otherwise today to the republican party or the security united states now if i may respond to your product or a statement indicated by surprise this question hasn't been asking you've indicated that mr mccourt i came to these conclusions based upon information he obtained from the justice department his testimony was he didn't obtain any information in the latter part of may and yet you also testified that using all of these

people in a break in some time in the early part of the mayor i believe it was on may the third date may thirtieth and yet his own testimony as he didn't obtain any information well i was a break in may thirtieth he was involved as i understand with these people before that time and there's certainly could not have been any information conveyed to him the notion of a very beautiful clothes information was available and democratic national committees and again the members of the pot it will cost to the national security problem and i didn't hear that testimony and i'm sure he never got any such information from the department of justice what we've been waiting for some

response from the department submitted requests for this national security problem i don't suppose it's your testimony us all my head of internal security division members of the party podcast absolutely not i have never heard any responsible for sure that the department of justice suggest that they're very much about the white house horrors stories that show and i believe you sign of any other sources other than one of the universe ellsberg knows i said if i have interrogated mr liddy further i might've found out that i'm asking you this because of this little suggested that this will just to organized crime mr mitchell may be pretty more dollars

secretary jets to suggest that that was delayed mr mcgrew most modern most of the ruinous series of meetings and male nineteen seventy two you recall a series of meetings with mr mcgrew the midst of the ruins that you know certain whoever made that statement got me mixed up with somebody else i had a series of meetings mr liddy i would recall obama's i saw them quite although i didn't have a series of meetings with mr magruder and this from a roommate that i i just came to the committee to discuss these meetings never

you say at these meetings i don't admit to being president is one final question so many of us implicitly a legal background built by rebels sketch indicates that you have the highest rate of overseers to the law school a very well as a corporate lawyer and i mayo citizen the justice department a single yard has almost with the law and order now i quote from your statement if i make the point in this particular statement i wanna and the record that as of the morning of june seventeen nineteen seventy two i was relieved of my political responsibilities the extent possible in charge of the responsibility of acting is also with many of jesus was walid was concerned and you have a very interesting statement on college

financing the morning of june seventeenth when he became a lawyer information wasn't much of a victory with a roommate and actually and dylan intolerable and at times unbearable situation of personal conscience situation which i was precluded from acting according to the dictates of my personal desires your interests situation in which ultimately might only one of not becoming encrypted in the convent a lot about why it exists are you trying to suggest that the lawyer at the advice and consulates you provided your clients was not going to pay so your personal desires or ensures no sir i don't think and a lot of the economy issues i don't think that's a fair reading maybe

to meet us to a proponent for acting according to the dictates of perpetual conscience as my conscience is one thing and the ethics of my profession demanded that time something else at the time i obtained the information and ethics of your profession requirement to look like a lot i don't think that statement indicates that's what i was trying to make a point mr liddy impart information may and june twenty first which had been imported only less than two months before i would've had an arrest that was a former assistant attorney general united states my boss was the former attorney general united states my best friends was the attorney general united states and he was importing information may indicate not only that crime but a series of other crimes perpetrated

by people in the white house and i worked for no that's all i was trying to save a being drawn inexorably into a situation worse conscience it would if it felt that these activities were at the potential of reading the president of the united states to decide the ethics of their profession required you to keep a little senator it i made the man my word on the rivals of the widening of applause he imported tomato knowledge of other felonies as i read my old i was duty bound not to

disclose that conference had i only had four names that day and told him what mr libby had told me i think i probably would've been subject to disciplinary action severe disconnection so i say i've never practiced for him a lot they don't know how people react to the situations carry these things in their mind they can't disclose that this was unveiled today takes over profession prevented you from disclosing information ought to obama's berlin wanted to discuss this with mr mitchell and i am a bad day pre condition information confidently to discuss this with mr mcgrew no sir olivier was just hit with anyone else but mr michel aoun

was just the mitchell report was on netflix to keep the germs out customers will have to speak for himself but were you the committee on june seventeenth geezer geezer