NET Journal; Midsummer 1967

The following program is from NET, the National Educational Television Network. This is an NET Journal special, mid-summer 1967, speaking for NET Journal, Richard McCutchen. In the past few weeks, America has experienced some of the worst violence in its history. City after city large and small in all parts of the country has been torn by civil disorder. In order to try and understand what's happening and to put it in perspective, NET went to the scene of one of the first and worst riots of the summer, Newark, New Jersey. We invited some 200 people across section of that community to come together and discuss the problems that divide them. We are about to show you excerpts of that meeting. What you will see and hear will be about one city, Newark. But because the underlying causes of the riots are the same in every part of the country,

we feel that the people of Newark have a meaning for all of us. With us in the studio today are two men with long experience in community relations and urban development at all levels of government. John A. Buggs headed the Los Angeles Human Relations Commission long before and after the Watts riots and is now President of the National Association of Intergroup Relations Officials and Deputy Director of the newly created Model Cities Program. Mr. John Field has worked for over 20 years in the field of community relations and urban affairs and is President Lee Director of the Community Relations Services of the United States Conference of Mayors. We will return to our guests in 90 minutes after the Newark meeting for their comments and reactions. Our moderator in Newark is Leon Lewis. As we begin our discussion, I think we should remember that the problems that cause Newark's violence remain and that the only real and valid question is, where do we go from here?

I'd like to ask that question of the gentleman on my right. He is assistant to the mayor of this city. Mr. Malafonte, where do we go from here? I think the first job is to put together the pieces of a functioning government to once again determine where all of us went wrong. I think in distributing blame, the mayor has put it quite clearly, we are all to blame. It is, I think, very easy to blame outside agitators and certainly persons from outside of the city were arrested, but that I don't think touches the problem at all. I think that the riot, it was a lawless act, the governor has so declared it and I think most of us feel that way. Nevertheless, at the bottom of an act like this is a cry for help. People I don't think participate in riots as so many in our community did unless there

is a genuine and deep feeling of dissatisfaction with the city, with the way things were going in the city and with our society. I think that we in Newark pick up the pieces that not only for our city, but for American society. There is something amiss in American society, something which affects all cities perhaps now, but which essentially comes down to, I think, racism in American life and what to do about it. It's clear to us in Newark that no matter how we tried, that we didn't try hard enough and that no matter what we did, it wasn't enough, there is the rising expectations, I think of Negroes who have waited too long for equality in American life. I think there have been festering problems in housing, education, jobs, which have gone too long unsettled.

Mr. Lawyer, we'll give you an opportunity to expand into remarks as we go along. I'd like to hear from Mr. Robert Black, the chairman of Human Relations Commission. Where do we go from here, Mr. Biden? When people don't want to live next door to other people, and when you have racism in many areas of our community, this is a real problem. We know, for example, that over half of the white Americans, middle class, do not want to live next door to Negroes. They say that Newark is becoming an all-need-grow city, and the Exodus has been quite rapid in the past 10 years, where the Negro population at one time represented 39%, now it represents an excess of 50%. I think this is reflected in our school system, where nearly 80% of the children are Negro. Now we had a very effective, which we thought was effective, peace community relations program, here in the city.

And we find out that one night, destroyed the effectiveness of this particular program. Now in order to rekindle any communication between the police and the community, there has got to be some radical changes, not in three or four police or ten or twelve police that may have been guilty of brutality, there's got to be a change in the system, attitudes have got to change, because if you have an excess of 200,000 black American citizens living here, and they're going to stay here, and we have to have a police department. We have to have law and order. There has got to be some changes made with respect to improving the relationship that exists between the two groups. Mr. Black, I'm sure that will be on the agenda here this afternoon. Thank you very much. I wonder if we could ask Mrs. Marion Kidd to give us her views on where do we go from here, Mrs. Kidd? Well, say number one is to go into the ghettos, go in there where the poor people is. As I was coming down here this afternoon, I was looking at people sitting around in the

parks, actually having nothing to do. And I believe this is where it all began, because people without a job, without work, people without satisfactory homes, they build up the anxiety of where do they go from here. And as you say, where do we go from here? We need to get out and go up in the Central Ward, and not just sit down and talk about what we're going to do for them, or go up and let them tell you what you can do for them, and what they can do because they know what they want to do. But it's just the idea they don't have the things to do it with. I live in the ghettos. Many people ask me, what is the ghettos, what is the grassroots, well, I'm one of them. I'm one of these people that live there. I travel through it every day, I work through it every day. And as you come through out of there during the day working with people, you don't have

to stop an ass. You can look at it on their faces. You can look at it at the young people, the homes that they live in. As I say, we need to stop talking here and go up there because sitting down here is not going to get it. Thank you, Mrs. Kid. And I'd like to hear a word from Mr. Carvin, Mr. Robert Carvin. One of the first things that has to be done is that there has to be a recognition that our police department is brutal, it has faulty leadership and administration, and that as it is presently constituted and led, that it cannot effectively serve a population such as the city of Newark. There is a second very specific item that the community is tense about. And that is the plans to build a medical school and the central ward of Newark, eventually covering 150 acres.

It's very fine to define all of these tensions and problems in terms of sociological terms about unemployment and how we have rising expectations and all of that. But we have some very specific problems that deal with the immediate situation. Despite what the mayor has said about charging that there are politically motivated people who are opposed to the medical school, there is a large segment of this community that will not tolerate a medical school taking 150 acres of land and the central ward when we know there are not adequate plans to house many people who have been relocated from other projects in the city of Newark. Mr. Carwin, would you tell us how taking 150 acres of land would affect the people of the city and why they oppose it? Yes. The entire medical school project will eventually dislocate over 20,000 people in the central ward area.

And the central ward area. The record of the housing authority has not been successful and relocating families that have had to move from areas that have been redeveloped in the city. And therefore, we do not have adequate housing today. One of our greatest problems in this city is housing. In 1960, something like 36% of the housing in the city of Newark was substandard. Now the mayor says the percentage is 16%. Not because we've built more housing, but we've torn down the substandard housing. It hasn't been replaced. We have to have housing for people to live in in this city. People are living in rat traps, vermin infested homes, and paying exorbitant rents. And this situation will be made worse by the building of the medical school in the city

of Newark on 150 acres. And underlying a great many of these problems, something has to be done in terms of dealing with a very basic problem in our city of tensions between Italian-Americans and Negro-Americans. Very few people like to talk about that, but it's a very serious problem. We have had a history of constant outbursts and tensions at barrenger high school, for instance, where a large number of Italian students go, and a large number of Negro students go. There are tensions in the police department between Italian-Americans and Negro-Americans. There is very little communications between the Italian community and the Negro community. And if you look at some of the affidavits and what was done by policemen during the riot, you will see the brutal results of these tensions. Well, thank you very much. Now, I'd like to declare the meeting open, and anyone who has something to say, I'd be happy to recognize.

I'd like to begin here at this table of possible, and then we'll go to the floor. Would you tell us your name, please? I'm Alan Sagner. I'm listed on the docket here as a business man, but I don't do business in Newark, and I don't stand to profit by any of the urban renewal programs that are underway. My principal interest in the city of Newark is as president of the Newark, Bethesda, Israel Hospital, which is a voluntary hospital located on Lyons Avenue in Newark. I will plead responsibility for being instrumental, and I was and still am proud of the part that I and other hospitals, administrators, trustees played in trying to persuade the New Jersey College of Medicine and Dentistry to come to the city of Newark. I had no idea back in September when it appeared that the college was definitely going to go to Madison that I was helping to contribute to a riot insurrection or what you might call it.

Unfortunately, I'm one of those lost people, the poor white liberal, who was paving the road to hell with his good intentions. This might be the views of many, but I don't subscribe to it. I agreed with Bob Kervin in a brief discussion that we had rather blatantly on the medical school that there have been serious errors on the part of those of us who were in favor of the medical school in not addressing ourselves to one of the important parts of the problem and that is the relocation. We accepted many easy answers in the form of urban renewal projects with 221D3 and public housing. There are people in the abided area who would not be eligible for any of this housing because they are not true families or because of many other reasons. This is a problem that we have to address ourselves to, but what concerns me is that we're going to throw out the baby with the wash.

This medical school, I sincerely believe, would be a boon to the city of Newark and not to the wealthy people of Newark and not to those who colonize Newark, but to the people of Newark. By that I say those who live in Newark, those who would like to live in Newark and those who will come to live in Newark. And Reverend Kim Jefferson of the Greater Newark Council of Churches, I've learned one lesson I think from this ride. I've long been saying that Newark needed more funds, millions of dollars, more funds and housing education, welfare, employment and so forth. I still believe this that we only have a drop in the bucket of what's needed, but has become very clear to me that even if we multiply by many times that that won't really solve the problem, that the priority problem on the list, number one, is the whole system of justice, the whole matter of police and courts and so forth, and that what we need is a whole reorganization of our justice system in this city and throughout the nation.

That's the biggest lesson I've learned from Newark riots. I'll recognize this young man, if you'll tell us your name please. I'm the director of the Newark Legal Services Project and I don't look upon the anti-social behavior as a riot. First of all, in my judgment, in my judgment, we have to understand the fact that we are now reaping the poison harvest of 300 years of history and what we really see here is the voice of the people revolting against an unjust system. I'd just like to go further and address myself to Mr. Malafrante in terms of the fact of this dialogue that has to occur. I mean, there's never been a dearth of dialogue between representatives in the Negro community and the mayor's office or Mr. Malafrante or Mr. Schiff or what have you. However, the kind of dialogue that has been has been sterile dialogue and from what I see occurring even right now, if somebody doesn't get together and brings some pressure to bear

upon that city hall, that's the same kind of dialogue that's going to result after this and we're going to have a riot after riot in this city. Yes, sir. Your name please? I'm Emma Rose. I'm a citizen of Newark and I live in the ghetto. Yes, sir. It is rather shocking to note that three national commissions, one under Hoover, one under President Truman and one under President Kennedy. It was the Wikisham report and the Civilized Commission's reports of 1947 and 1961 have stated very clearly that there is police brutality as a practice in every major city of the United States, yet the press and others have been successful in creating the fact or alleged fact that there is a myth of police brutality and whenever one sees it in the press, it is in quotes.

I would like to ask the white members of the panel, what steps they will take to bring to the attention of the white community who can be made more concerned, who is now disoriented and confused and comes up with racist epithets not out of deep feeling because they don't know the facts and parenthetically I'd like to say the Board of Education ought to concern itself with the school system that has never brought the facts of Negro life to their children in all the years of Newark's educational system. What steps do they propose we can take to bring to the attention of the people not to exacerbate the situation, but to tell them that when Reverend Blakely and other leaders in the Negro community have to say as one member of the panel here said today, that police brutality to the average Negro is a fact of life, how are we going to bring this to the attention of whites so they can begin to understand so then we could settle a problem.

Thank you. Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we seem to be talking, directing ourselves to the police problem. I think it's been pretty well established that there is conflict here. What we're looking for is a way out, and I'd accept this young gentleman first and then you, sir. All right. I'll thank all. The problem is you've got too many politicians and a false presence and arrest of the day. And long as we have a city government and Newark, we have the day still going to continue because what you have here, you have an intimate government and the heart of a black city. That's what you have, you know. Sir, this gentleman here, next to you. That's Councilman Adonizio. Councilman Adonizio, City of Newark. No, it's interesting to note we hear police brutality and it may be a few in the police department as they are in the Negro.

Please let the gentleman speak. Of course I could have jammed this meeting today and had everybody hooray and for everything I'm about to say. But I'm here to learn. Just a matter, please. Let's be fair about this. You don't know what I'm going to say and you're already starting to knock me. Well, let's listen to what the gentleman has to say. First of all, there may be some police officers that use undue force. I don't call with this, but I don't see any easy way that you can shoot someone or in somebody's positions and I was on the street that night being shot at. So I know what it is and I know somebody's follows that maybe got carried away on both sides on both sides, but I think it's grossly unfair for any society, civilized society to condone somebody actions on either side, but be mindful of the fact that a police officer is there to maintain order and I think that any police officer that's shot on to shoot back.

Number one, number two, the record will show that the police department has more calls in a central ward when there aren't any riots. Why? To help to protect the people there and we all know that it's most of the crimes are committed against one Negro against another so that the police officer is there to protect the Negro many times. Now if we're going to, if we're going to try to adjust this problem, we must meet it from the point of view that if there are some problems, how can we best resolve them? And I don't feel that anybody that is a black power advocate or a white power advocate is American because I classify both un-American because now we have movements, you know, I could jam this whole and have everybody hurt right for everything I want. You know?

Councilman, would you please proceed? Yes, I want to express myself. You know because this is one of, they say that this is one of the problems we have. We don't all agree and we've come here to try to understand each other, we've come here to try to understand each other and we ought to listen to all shades of opinion. Now I think that the councilman has a right to speak just as much of a right as anyone else and let's hear it. Now as far as the either power or wider black is concerned, I think once we start to set up forces, we cut the line of communication between each. And I know there are forces in the city of Newark today that are advocating white power. I think this is terrible. The same as I think black power per se is terrible or any other nationalistic group in this country is terrible because if we're going to work on the premise that we are all American and that each one is entitled to their own rights and bearing in mind that in my capacity in the state, I was the one that signed the certification for all beauty policy in the state to stop discrimination and I can assure you that the letters I received from

the white community was not good. So that many of us have been interested in civil rights long before some of the people in this room, but now maybe we're not as loudmouthed about it as some. But the point is this, and there are many things that we have to do in the city of Newark. Number one, we have to make sure that the merchants that were burnt out have the funds to relocate there and those that don't want to relocate us to bring in some negro merchants in that area so that the people can be properly serviced. And I say this, that the problems that were created by this riot far go far beyond the dollars and sense values involved because once the dollars and senses are paid for and so on, the social scars will still remain and those are the things that we must help to eradicate in years to come because I for one, I was born in a city of Newark and with the help of God, I will be here till I die so I'm not moving as many others are.

And I know this because if the problem of the racist cannot be solved in Newark, it's not going to be solved anywhere at all. And this is the line as the governor mentioned where we must work and solve it. And I know there are many people around this table that I don't agree with at all in some of their philosophies. But I respect their right to do it. Jesse Allen is setting next to me now. He and I have argued many times. But I never once said to him, Jesse, I don't want to listen to you. And I expect the same courtesy from everybody else. There's a gentleman standing behind me whom I haven't been able to see and whom I'd like to acknowledge now. But tell us your name, sir. My name is Gordon Mays. I'm a teacher in a little school system. Now, as I see it to both the black and white members of the panel, I think we are evading the true issue here. Police brutality, bad housing, bad jobs is only one answer. And that is for the white community to accept the Negro as a first-class citizen and get off this second-class citizenship

because as long as the racist ideas lie in the minds of the white community, police brutality will exist and go on right down the line suppressing the Negro as they have done for 450 years. Now, to point out my point here, white power is a fact. So let's not talk about you don't want black power. White power is a fact. And I don't care how you look at the history books, the white man will bend any way he can to protect that dollar sign. Now, to bring up another interesting fact, you spoke about the wrongdoings of the people in the street. In 1966, in Texas, a white boy on August 2, shot down and cloned pre-meditated blood, 12 individuals, and wounded 36. And the hearts of the white community cried out in his favor that he had a problem, that he was caught up with all kinds of mental deprivation.

Now I have a race of people in your land, Mr. In my land that my people have died for, that my people have worked for, to Geneva Convention. And I am in that GI. Of course, a prison of war, a better condition of life than you give me. And you sit there and talk about on your pie yourself about a black power. I earned the right for black power. I'm not defending black power. But I hate to see these distortions with respect by the press to give the interpretation that black power means racism, that black power means violence. Nothing could be more remote from the truth. And as a case in point, black power is self-determination. It's encouraging Negroes to help themselves. For example, in the state of New Jersey, where Negroes spend $2,300,000 per day for an amazing variety of consumer goods, and he spends $200,000,000 a year for food, yet Negroes don't even own one supermarket.

Now, black power is encouraging Negroes to help themselves build up businesses and give people the opportunity for jobs. This is what black power is. So, let nobody distort this fact about black power. Thank you. I'd like, if I may now, to hear from Mr. Todd, but he's been asking for the floor, and then I'll go to the gentleman at this microphone, I believe, and this man, and then you. I'm still after what we can do. And I think that, first of all, I have to say that, there are a number of people here who belong to an interracial committee of concern, which met during the time that we had all of the unrest and rioting problems, and indeed I do call it riot, that was going on in this city. And what we found, by the way, and this were people who lived, Mrs. Kid, for example, who is here, who says she lives in the ghetto, is a secretary, Mr. Lofton, who spoke, who lives in Newark, is also a co-chairman along

with me, Mrs. Thomas across the way, who lives also in this area where we had the trouble, is a member, many of the people around here are. But it is clear that not only they, but also people representing every phase and every walk of life, Negro and white, found that there could be no solution of any problem, until the problem of what happened with regard to the police was settled. That was the first problem. Now, how to solve that? I think that, you know, we can go on calling names all day and all night and all year as we have. But it appears to me that the anatomy of a riot, whether it be in Newark or as in Philadelphia, means that this problem, again, of police practices, and that's a polite way to say it, can

only be solved, not by such things as increasing the number of Negro policemen or giving a police Negro captaincy. It will require what I call a major reorganization and reeducation of the police, because believe me, as there are good white policemen and good Negro policemen, there are brutal Negro policemen and white policemen in this force, not as many, because there aren't as many Negroes in the force. All right, this gentleman here has been standing patiently. Would you tell us your name, please? My name is James Walker. I'd like to speak on the consulman's dissertation and also on the gentleman who just finished speaking. If you've been deprived, educationally, job-wise, or otherwise, and you have a family of six

children and you're taking home $70 per week, $70 per week to feed these children. Either you do one or two things, you drink yourself to death and go out and beat your wife and the cops a call or you revolt. In the past, you've seen the Negro or the black man beating his wife. I think here you have to stop and examine what, you know, you really don't know what it's about. Number one, you're not black and until you become black and live in this vacuum, then you can't address yourself to it. That's number one. The subject on the table is police. I'm talking about police, because you see, sociology, problems in sociology have proven that these things lead into the beating of the black man in the black community. All right, you built the bridge.

All right, now I would say this and I'd say this emphatically. You're speaking about police brutality. Recently, we had a seminar or a police relations, police public relations thing going on here and countless dollars were spent. We have people here sitting on your panel here today who are involved in that process. And if what I saw in the streets is any indication of anything coming out of this sort of police community relations body then the money was ill spent. It was ill spent. I saw a policeman out there doing things to citizens regardless whether a black, blue, green, yellow, or white. They're doing things. This was not a white VS a Negro situation. This was a despot using supremacy once again to take advantage of a depressed people. And I think that here, the thing that you're addressing yourself to here, gentlemen, is somewhere along the line in the choosing

of the people from your police department, these people must get psychological testing because some of them are mad. Mr. Malafranti has said that he is also representing the police department. And since we've heard so much against the administration and the police department, I thought we ought to hear a word from Mr. Malafranti on this subject. I take it out to address myself then essentially to what's on the table. We have the police matter on the table, Mr. Malafranti. I'd appreciate your sticking to that. I think we should first understand, in regard to the business of who's an officer and who's on the police force and who is not, that in New Jersey, that in New Jersey, all promotions up to an including chief in the police department are subject to state civil service. I think that the only, I think I know that the only appointed position is director. The question here has been raised, essentially, is that there is an underlying concern about police communications, Negro, white. I think that's of course quite true, it's obvious. I think

however we need to recognize that that is not always a racial matter. I grew up in Brooklyn in a, I thought a nice area, some people consider it rather tough. I think that there was animosity then between low income group and the policemen who represented authority. Policemen broke stick ball bats over my bag and I didn't love policemen. I think that the matter of a low income and the drive person and the way he views police trans ends racial matters. It's a part of American life that needs to be dealt with. I certainly agree it's much worse. In the case of a person who's had to bear the indignity of a bigotry for so many years, but we need to understand that animosity between the lowest group in any city or any given situation has its roots even somewhat deeper than racial situations. All white cities also confronted with the problem of the persons who are deprived feeling

that the police bear down on them unduly. Certainly there's a misunderstanding often between the policemen who feels he's out there to protect middle class values and so forth and doesn't understand the community that he's dealing with. I dare say that in Newark we've made every effort to try to educate both the police and the community that essentially the aims and goals were the same. I think Jesse Allen just a few months ago in a Newark evening news noted that he thought things were somewhat better. It's always difficult to determine how things are until the heat is on. When the heat was on, it proved things were not better. Certainly true. In terms of getting dick speedy here, I think I need to address myself just this and I can conclude it. I think that one of the most overrated matters under discussion in riot in every city is this lack of communication between people. I think there is a lack of communication. It's between everyone here whom I know by their

first name. We've communicated many times. There have been failures of communication and it's not all between city hall and the police department and the ghetto. There has been a failure communication between so-called leadership around this table and people in this room, most of whom I know, and the people they contend that they speak for. They have been failures of communication all along the line. No. Newark is not speaking out here, not at all. The persons who rioted, I believe are not in this room. I don't believe there's a man here who honestly speaks for those persons who rioted. We here, persons are concerned about Newark, care about Newark, come out here and speak and voice all the sociological and deeper differences that are between us and so forth and so on. Nevertheless, I believe that communication certainly has failed. But it is not only between the police and the community or city hall and the police and the community. Communication failure is one of which I think all of us around this table must plead guilty because we are all the so-called self-appointed leaders and spoke from the people who rioted. I'm afraid we

don't speak for. There was a group out there that none of us could reach. I think that no city administration anywhere in this country has spent as much time talking to people as we have. We talked to the wrong people. We didn't talk to the people who spoke and I include those around this table. Of course, the people out there who caused that trouble 17, 18, 19-year-olders, there wasn't anybody speaking for them. The problem is who's going to reach those kids? Now, who has a direct question to Mr. Mallorca? I didn't see no black cops beating no black people. In fact, I didn't see hardly no black cops out there. Really? I think they all just set them on for them to put the white racist honky cops out there so they could get some head and it's not their job to whoop a head. It's their job to keep law and art or not to whoop a head. They're supposed to tell them to stop. They don't be supposed to put them in handcuffs and put them in jail. They ain't supposed to beat them with them three foot sticks and Ray is not so in their head, you know.

Okay, so is that your comment? No, I'm not finished. You know, I mean, you know, I'm standing here, you know. All right. And I've been listening to this young lady here and she says that her husband was beat. Now, you know, I was beat too. You know, I got my shins all bruised up behind some guards. And he wanted to take a look in my pocket and see if I got anything, you know. And I think that, you know, like the people, you know, it's supposed to say, has something to say about who they got on their police force, you know. They ain't supposed to have no honky cops from down south and redneck crackers that come up here and think they are bad, you know. But this is that, this is not watermelon, Mississippi or nicotoe, Alabama, you know, where they can go out and lynch us, you know, or burn us up, you think? Because they, we can't burn no crosses and start carving caves because all we got is black power, you know, and we don't go for all that. We figured like the Charles and got out here and did us in for 400 years is I turn to do something to him now, you know.

This gentleman has been waving for the last half hour. I recognize him. First of all, I think that we have to understand that the Newark is a colony and that it's run by people outside of Newark. It's run by and for them and that the people who live in Newark don't run it and that it's just like a black colony in Africa where people who buy in large, who live outside of the city make the key decisions about running it, including the police I might have, which Bob Curbin has. Now, I think that it's very nice to say that we have to have a lot of understanding and soul searching, but I think I'd like to come here today and say that I'd like to join with all the nice people here and do that. But you see, I think history is against all that. You see, I think that history shows that there's a thing called power that's the key question and that power doesn't give anything by itself. You see, the Italians took the city from the Irish. Irish didn't

give the Newark to the Italians. They took it. And the same thing is going to have to have it here, that black people are going to have to take the city from the Italians. Gus, Mr. Malafranti, Mr. Amizi, and go give it to us. And that for people to talk about law and order without realizing some type of situation where justice can exist is pure hypocrisy. Now, the Chamber of Commerce has always been very interesting. I was reading their newsletter for May 22, 1967, when after they have successfully pushed to get the medical college here to improve the situations, supposedly, quote, unimprovement, they want now an arena. They think that you got to have more tourism here. And they talk about, it says, when the tourist overwhelm the creeps, the creeps, you know, that's us. That's when the city becomes alive and attitudes change. I wonder if the attitude of the Newark Chamber of Commerce has changed. That's document for anybody who wants to see that. Yeah, all right. The gentleman from the student on violent court in the board did a committee.

Red day out of context, the statement from the Chamber newsletter. If he read the entire article, I think it will be quite clear to everybody. I started off the article by talking about New York. We're talking about people coming downtown and spending money, which all of us in this room are interested in, because money is at least part of the solution to our problem. Now, everybody talks about jobs. Everybody, I better, I better clear that up. I talked about people going to New York to see shows, to see the globe charters, to see the New York nicks. In spite of the fact that they have beat nicks and drunks on the side walks, leaping it off, there are some creepy people in New York, but we go there anyway, to see the shows. And I said, now, Newark, like any big city, has some, to say it again. You also say that from your article, you say that you go to New York because you have number of those creepy people by two to one. Right. That mean, in other words, if the drunks and the beat nicks out number the decent people, whatever their color, then you're

not going to go there, are you? So the theory is that in Newark, where there is no action downtown, where there is no attraction downtown, the drunks and beat nicks that we have stand out like sore thumbs. Now, that's the answer to that problem, but the core of the problem, if somebody still doesn't understand the fact that I was not referring to a racial matter when I talked about creeps, which he indicated or intimated. I'm talking about people we don't like to live with. All right. Well, a drunker of beat nicks, you know. Now, if that doesn't make sense to you, let's go a step further. You talk about jobs. Now, you know, all of you want more jobs in Newark, and you can talk all you want about it, but the problem of getting the jobs becomes our problem. We've got to get industries here. Now, they don't come over night. You have to sell your city to industry to get them open to plant in a city. Now, what does an industrialist who is thinking about opening a plant in a city?

What does he look for in a city before he opens that plant? Do you know, sir? Do you know what an industrial look industrialist looks for before he opens a plant in a city? They look cheap labor. That's sure. That's a big thing. That's why they're moving south from New York. That's why the population of Newark has declined for the last 30 years. Because they don't want to locate here. Now, if they're looking for cheap labor and we have unemployment, this is a big advantage, isn't it? They're also looking for a place that they can make money where the taxes are reasonable, where their employees would have a live a decent life. And part of the decent life or the museums, part of the decent life or the arenas, part of the decent life is the thing that makes a city. City is made up of just houses. City is everything. Business, industry, housing, arenas, and museums. I'm Fred Means, President of the Organization of Negro Educators. And I go back to what Don said earlier. What we're really talking about here is racism, attitude, and power. Now, Don related some experiences that he had as a youngster growing up in a tough neighborhood.

Now, I think too many times white people try to relate the experiences of the European minority coming into America to the situation that occurs here with black Americans. See, it's not the same at all. And until you begin to try to see the differences and understand the differences, then we're going around in one big circle. Now, let's bring attitudes right home to Newark. Let's talk about how the city administration relates to the Negro community in many areas. Let's talk about the board appointment that we just came through. Now, Newark Committee for Better Schools, which represents a wide variety of groups here in the city of Newark. The Organization of Negro Educators, various groups, it represents a wide variety of groups that in turn represent certainly the civil rights oriented people in the city of Newark. And we are confronted with 55% or better Negro

population in the city of Newark. So, when this group comes in with a list of names of people they would like to see appointed to the Board of Education. And other organizations in town, even apart from this particular thrust with the Newark Committee for Better Schools makes recommendations for the Board of Education. And the mayor appoints someone entirely different that wasn't even on the list, wasn't even being considered, then that's another slap in the face to the Negro community, just a complete and utter disregard for us. So, we want a severance of politics and education. And that's a big problem here in the city of Newark. See, until the mayor recognizes that he can't play politics with our kids. Now, he's got all kinds of fancy reasons for saying that all these political appointments don't really affect the kids. See, but that's Horgwash. That's Horgwash. He's talking about our kids

over 70% of whom are black. And anytime he makes a political appointment, any our kids are suffering. Now, I would like that, Mr. Malafonte representing the mayor, if the mayor still feels the same way. I think that Fred's question is whether or not the mayor is still supporting several persons for positions of assistance, superintendents, and so on. I think Fred's question was whether or not the mayor was still supporting several Negroes for positions as assistance, superintendents. His question being, I take it, whether a riot has shaken the mayor's confidence in the Negro community. I think the answer there is no. I think he still does support those. I think he still does support a Negro for assistance, superintendents, and curriculum. And another as it says, superintendents elementary school and community relations and several

directors jobs. I think those names have been widely publicized. And I think the mayor's position on, gee, Bob, I'm usually pretty good about that. I thought that was the question. Well, someone, we're the gentlemen, Rita. And we're still playing the game. See, there's the game right there. We're skating on the ice. Now, the mayor told us that there were three people, white people. One was a Negro, because he was going to pay him off for something he did. But there were three people at the mayor said that he is supporting for positions in the Board of Education. And let's just go back a little bit, talking about politics and education. You know, about a year and a half ago, there were some people about four of them who were pulled out of the school system and put into jobs without going through the regular procedure, in other words, political appointments. Now, at the

time, to placate the community, the board who were told by the mayor, of course, said that these positions, they were just temporary positions. Now, some of these same people who were appointed at that time on a temporary basis are now being projected and supported by the mayor for the permanent positions. Now, that's what I want to talk about, baby. And you know it. So, answer that question. I think then the essential question is, the mayor's brother was in the recreation department for some years. And that several years ago, he was moved to a supervisory position. Correct? Mr. Times. And some sort of position, in any case, at the Board of Ed. And I don't know. I've heard the mayor say often enough I'm the mayor of the city. I still haven't been able to get my brother raised. I think he'd like to see that raise, right? If the question is, is the mayor supporting his brother for a raise at the Board of Education after four years, the answer is yes.

The superintendent of the Board of Education has got to leave. And if you'll give him a couple of minutes, I'll make you next, Miss. Mr. Titus, sir. I share the sentiment relative to the school, so there's been expressed here this afternoon during the time I've been here, which hasn't been too long. Not 100 percent, but in terms of many of the problems that I know exist in the Norfolk Public School system. We are short currently over 10,000 pupil stations. There's a sad possibility that close to 6,000 elementary school pupils may have to go on part time. I should like to indicate that I did submit, even as acting superintendent, a $42 million capital program to the Board of Education. They approved it. Board of School Estimate

has approved it. And interestingly enough, that estimate has now gone up to 51 million. In the interest of providing what we all want, quality education, I hope the additional 9 million will be forthcoming. In addition to that, as a result of a study which I had conducted a couple of years ago, there is available a projected $197 million program. And I don't forget that in the City of Newark for two to two and a half decades, boards of education up through about 1950 engaged in not a single building program. As a result over 50 percent of our schools are in excess of 50 years of age. And those old schools are not the kinds of schools that provide for all aspects of quality education. So necessarily, they're going to have to be replacements of those schools. I might say one other thing

that when I became a superintendent, there were only four Negro administrators in the City of Newark. As of July 1st, the number was doubled. And I don't think that this is enough yet. I'm very conscious of that. Somebody mentioned curriculum, quality education. The new assistant superintendent in charge of curriculum is Dr. Alma Flagg. And one of the reasons why I thought of Dr. Alma Flagg, as I did, was the thought that some of you have so vehemently expressed that it's impossible for even a white liberal to know the heart and soul of a person who has been born non-white. And it's my full expectation. The Dr. Flagg will combine insight and ability in very meaningful curriculum development. Let's talk to this lady first. She's been standing here.

Just the Titus indicated that we have difficulties in our schools over crowding and that things are being done about it. But this is only one small part of the story. The only reason why the little that has been done is being done is because of community pressure every step of the way. When every organization that has been involved in this city has come together and come before the boy and Mr. Titus and the mayor and the city council, that is the only time we have gotten anywhere in meeting the building needs of the school children in this city. Now, I just want to indicate to you what that means, just in one small example, after much effort and difficulty, we got the Department of Education to issue what they need in schools despite what it cost. Up to that point, if they had $10 in their

pocket, they'd say, well, we only need $10 worth of schools. When we knew, we needed $10,000 worth. Well, we got them to indicate a little more closely what they needed. And over two years ago, they issued a statement of urgent and immediate needs and believe me, they were urgent and immediate. They were schools that were on split session schools that needed portable schools that were in disgrace in terms of their physical structure and severe overcrowding of our children who need so much in those schools. In 1963, the capacities of these schools were listed and I'm going to give you following the capacity, what the number of children there today. 740 children belong in 14th Avenue. There are now 1266. In South 15th Street School, there's a capacity of 1220 children. There are now 1,900 children.

That's 700 children over in one school in a crowded area where those children need as our educators said in yesterday's news. They need 10 children in a class and they have split sessions and portables and on top of that, probably close to 40 at this point. And in 17th Avenue School that was built for $1,050, there are $1,452. But the question is, so what? What are we going to do about it? What does the Department of Education have to offer? What does our City Administration have to offer? What does our City Council have to offer? They don't have any solution at all except that we will continue to go along in this snail's pace and the kids will just have to manage. We talk about people being killed in the riot and how horrendous and particularly those who clock their tongues

that, you know, how can you say that anything good could come of this? Well, let me tell you, there are more children being killed off intellectually and for their lives and their futures in our schools than will ever be killed off in any riot. The cancer that exists in this city is police brutality. And especially at this time, we can talk about the labor representative talks about ads in the newspaper, ads in the newspapers and things of this nature and all these kinds of things. I think right now, if you were to walk out of this building, you'd find policemen still riding around with shotguns hanging out of the windows of cars. You'd see men still riding around helmets there and you'd still have abusive kinds of things. There's a rule by fear in this community right now. And I think one of the things that needs to be pointed out, and unfortunately the white community not having lived this, and I know even the most liberal people who have lived perhaps in the ghetto can't quite understand these things that what we talk about police brutality. You know, it's one thing to be beaten by a Negro policeman if you're a Negro

and also by a white policeman, but it's the added kind of insults. It's one thing to be beaten on the back by a policeman with a stick by an Italian policeman who'll be trying to back with a stick. There's something different, but the added burden that the Negro has is the fact that he's black and that this viciousness comes out as a result of the color of that person, not because this kid happens to be on the streets. It's the color. And I think this is something that we can't change and therefore we must fight. We'll never change our color, you see. And so we have to see to it that we change, first of all, get some honesty and dialogue that emanates from city hall or positions of power. And secondly, I think you originally said you tried without any success to get this meeting not to become emotional. Well, if you have lived through the last, well, if you've lived in Newark all your life, and especially through those five days, then believe me, it would be impossible for you not to be emotional about it, especially if you had spent the last hours on earth with Mrs. Spellman, as I did, when she was looking at Mr. Walker, did Jim Walker back here at three o'clock in the morning when she was looking for a 13 year old daughter who had been arrested and she had been sent to the fourth percent, then to the second percent, and then down

to the police headquarters. And then still wasn't able to get past the policeman who stood at that police headquarters. She couldn't go inside to find her daughter. Well, we spent three hours or four hours with Mrs. Spellman trying to cool her down. And finally able to find her daughter on the third floor, herded together with a bunch of other kids. The last time I saw her, the son was coming up on that morning and she was going home. The next thing I heard from her was that 10 children wanted a 10th floor. Now, to remind you this, on the 10th floor of an apartment house, now she was killed there. In her own apartment, the next thing I heard was their 10 children who were motherless. This is the same as Mrs. Spellman. So therefore, it's difficult not to be emotional about this problem. This cancer that exists here. The second thing, if you had lived through these last several days, and if you were riding down the street with your seven year old son in the car and your wife, and each corner you came to bayonets were thrust into a window of your car. And then finally, every time you went to the corner, your son said, Daddy, please don't go there anymore because the policemen are going to kill us or the guards are going to kill us. Then you could also understand the emotionalism here. I think that one of the things that we have to get across to the white community and to the male affrontes and the rest of them

in this community is that if you don't understand what we're talking about, then you'd better take, have some faith in the words that we tell you because these things exist. We can't wait until the evolutionary process develops where you begin to understand what we talk about. We ask you to take on good faith what we say that these things do exist because we have to wait until you evolve to the point where you can understand what we're talking about. We'll never make it. And one of the things that we know and raising children is that we tell them to do certain things. They don't understand it, but they learn it. We tell them that eventually they're able to reason by it. So what we're saying is that one of the most important things that's solving this cancerous problem that exists now is to deal with that specific problem that all segments of the community, not just the Negroes, but all segments of the community has to recognize that we're not all liars. When we talk about police brutality, it exists. We're not all liars. We're not kidding about these things. We have seen and we've lived through them. And so these are things we have to say. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be getting through. It just doesn't seem to be getting through. Now, some additional things I like to say is that the third thing is that if any of you have seen that Life Magazine there in the picture of that young boy lying on the street with blood

running out of his body, then this is another reason why one can't be emotionalist about this problem. You see, these are some of the things that exist. And if any human being can look at that picture or look through that magazine and still say that we should deal with another problem first, then I think that there's something terribly, terribly sick in this community. This is the major problem. This is the first problem that we have to deal with. And then we'll get to the problem of schools. Now, another thing Mr. Malafanti said was nobody in this room could speak for those youngsters out there. Let me tell you something about this. Every single time that all of us stood before the board of ed or in the mayors offers any place else and said that you need to improve the schools we were speaking for those youngsters out there. Every time we said that you need to clear out those rat infested houses, we were speaking for those youngsters out there at that time. Every time we said that every time we said that these youngsters need jobs, we were speaking for those youngsters out there. They didn't come down and articulate these things, but had these things been corrected, these youngsters would not have been running out there as they were. We spoke, we tried to speak to the issues there and anybody. Life Magazine says they're predictable insurrection. It was predicted by everybody, all of the conditions

that existed. You said there are no leaders here? No. They don't listen to the leaders out here talking about the problems. There are hand-picked people that this community happens to pick and are developed by the power structure that says these are the leaders that I'm going to listen to and these people are the ones that have no contact with the people out in the streets. Yet, and this has been told over and over again, yet these things are ignored. When we say that the people that you have picked just don't know what's going on. They're embossed in somewhere or elsewhere during the height of the ride to save. These are the people that you have selected as the Negro leaders and these are the ones that you have chosen to listen to. Now, the greatest irony of this whole thing is that there was a document that went to Washington and which was the model city's proposal. And within that proposal, yes, within that proposal was documented word by word, the problems that exist in the city of Newark. And this was not written by me. It was written by, I think, officials of the city who pointed out, you know, and anybody who read that issue could probably

have said, how on earth has a Newark erupted yet? And I'm sure that if this, and I think Mr. Melafront, that you have something to do with that document. And you are certainly aware of the condition that existed here for some money to say that I didn't know it was going to be quite so bad. That document there is priceless. And the irony of it is that it was authored by you, Mr. Melafront, and expanded upon by the Chamber of Commerce. Tried to say, namely, these are just the things that I like to say that we do the problems, you know, but nothing was done about them. And your question was, was anyone listening and I think that document indicates people were listening? Bill, what are you saying that the city admits it needs help? If the Chamber of Commerce recognizes the problem and we do go to the federal government for help, what else could we do? What I'm saying, what should we pretend and not there, Bill? Did you contend we should pretend that those problems are not there? What I'm saying is that I have heard the last several days, people who have vigorously, vigorously condemn the riot, you know. I would like to see the riots killed people. I would like to see these same people.

Just a moment, please. I have never heard anybody as vigorously attacked the schools, vigorously attacked the red infested houses, but I would like to see now, as I said before, that the entire community has vigorously attacked the causes of this riot, you know, not just the riot. And this is all I've heard in the last several days and years of preceding them. Well, I don't think that's true, the city administration, Bill. If he looks at my face good and hard, he'll remember me being down at the mayor's office and he said there is a lack of communication. I would like to let him know that we sat in front of the mayor's office with him whispering in the mayor's ear and told him, told the mayor that if he didn't do something about the mayor's site, because we had the IRA fathers who did not know where they were going to move their children to, and if he didn't do something about the Board of Education because we had the IRA mothers who did not know what type of education their children were going to get, they had people on the Board of Education with children sitting crosswise in the school seats, books that were outdated they had before I went to school riding on both sides of the paper and you sat there and told me you were

paying $6 million to build a warehouse for what? And my children can't get a good school building and you sat there and whisper to the mayor when I said, if you do not do something about that, there will be a riot in New York. And the mayor said to me that he didn't think the Negroes in New York were organized enough to have a riot. And I said, I'm saying this since you are representing the mayor and the police chief, you catch it all next time bringing with you, you can divide it up. Now, in as much as you told me that you didn't think the mayor told me that he didn't think the Negroes were organized enough to have a riot. What organization did you need for a riot? I came down there speaking for the boys, I have 17, 18, 19, 20, 16 years old and you tell me there's nobody representing them. What do you want those boys to come in the mayor's office and do what they did

downtown? It can be done. Then on time of all this, you all made the statement, you all you the police chief and the mayor made the statement that he was and we had elected him in almost four years. And so the mid-site was going up because he was the mayor, not what we wanted. When you talk about communication, how can you get communication between me and you? You got your ear closed up to what I'm saying. I got to bother with what you say. Now where is the communication? When it's communication, you have to speak to me and I have to speak to you. You just don't close your ears up and I do all the talking. I wanted to address myself to a point made by Don Mallafonte. I would like to take the opportunity to at least explode the myth of Negro leader. I hope that for the rest of this panel, we won't use that whatever anymore. Leader in the traditional sense in the Negro community has been, well, they've been out of vogue now for at least 300 years. I don't

know when it was the last time you went to an Italian community and said who is your leader or to an Irish community and said who is your leader? You know, it's the technique where you print in a paper someplace that there are such things as Negro leaders and in the next day you say, well, they aren't any. Therefore, I know more than anyone else. The lady over here that spoke who had children in the school came down to the mayor's office and at temperature represent her own feelings and the things of her immediate family. She was ignored. I've been in the community all my life grew up in the riot torn area. I've worked in the riot torn areas. I teach her for weight number of years. I'm now a director of youth court project that has a thousand of the youngsters from the riot torn area in it. But I'm not listening to. No one is listening to because we're black and that is essentially the problem. I think the problem of police brutality, the problem of inadequate education, the problem of housing, are simply symptomatic of the problem that black people are ignored, are ignored. And they are ignored more particularly in this community by the

city administration than I think in others. The problem is also this whole gathering, this whole gathering, and I get sick and tired. And I'm going to tell you, I get sick and tired are picking up a newspaper and hearing your talk for me. You understand that? Because you know, it hurts me every time I pick up and you sit down and you're playing and you talk and you say what you're going to do. I don't even see what you say come about. Now number one, I got two children and they sit back here and as long as I'm breathing, I'm going to have something to say about their education. Not only I'm going to have something to say, I'm going to demand it and anybody know me equipment street school know that I do this. And like I'm here to tell you again, brothers, you can sit downtown or you want to but I told them down the ruptures, you better go up on that hill and start holding some of those meetings and public housing for those poor people paying $56 a month rent. Also got to pay for laundry service. Now I know some of the richest

people in the world don't have to pay for laundry service because they can have washing machines. But anytime you got to pay for and $5 a week to get your clothes laundry because you don't have laundry service in the housing project, this brother was what some of the fight was about. And I stood there watching them. They was taking a brother what they was taking was everything they needed. They didn't take nothing that they didn't need. And you better believe me. And I saw for them. I saw for them because they didn't take something. I saw a man, I heard a man sit down and told, well I ain't got no job. But I tell you one thing, my wife and children will eat till I find one. And I know what was in his heart. I know what is in his heart. And it's not what these so-called people is down here professing. And as I said before, you better get from downtown and go up there now, send your word and take a good look at the sins that you have committed by building a new type of slum. Thank you.

Now to the man with the Beth Israel Hospital. How many Black people do you have their interning on that board? You have Indians, you have Koreans, you have West Indians and so forth. I happen to be West Indian. I have a lot of cousins that are there. I also know that you have people from the British Guiana that are there nursing. I see very few colored girls coming out of week-quake high school, East Side, name any of the high schools here that are able to get into the Beth Israel. My daughter could not get into there. One person. I'd like to answer that question because that happens to be completely untrue and I can prove it to you. The director of our School of Nursing, Mrs. Adelaide Bash, is a, and I don't know what term is in vogue now. Is she black, colored, negro, or Afro-American? Because I'm not getting started. I'm trying to give an answer. I spoke to Mrs. Bash because we do not have on our application anything that would identify

the person as to their race or religion. No, it's not done on that. Let me finish and then you can answer. I certainly will. And I have made a direct inquiry because I am concerned in our School of Nursing that there are only one or two negro children in the school. And I tell you, Madam, I don't know your name. My name is Urslene. If your daughter has graduated in the upper half of her class, if she can pass the nursing aptitude test or the college aptitude test, score on any two of those three, I guarantee you that there will be a place for her and it will not cost you one red cent because we will either give her a scholarship or we can get her a government loan. I was so concerned that we didn't have enough members of minority groups in our classes that I wrote a letter to the gentleman who was at our community leader seminar who was a member of the Puerto Rican church. I don't remember his name. He was there. That's right. And I wrote him a letter and gave him all the particulars about it because we don't have one Puerto Rican

child in our school. And I wrote to him and gave him the application and said that if he had any children who were interested, that we would make every effort to find a place for them in our school. And I resent that there is any discrimination whatsoever in our hospital. There has been some discrimination in the past and core, brought it to our attention that there was some discrimination in our admission office and so far as a assignment of rooms. And this has been, as President of the hospital, I have told the admission offices will not be tolerated. And I have Negro doctors on our staff who are interns, sir. Interns, sir. I happen to be a madam, sir. I don't know. I don't believe we have any Negro interns and I will tell you the same thing. If you know any boy or girl who is a graduate of a medical school that is accredited and he wishes to intern at our hospital, he can start there with the coming term. I got to leave because I'm

out of Negro leader and as Mrs. Thomas said that, you know, the real action is not down here. I just like to address two quick things to Mr. Malafonte. Number one is is that some of the people in this room were in the rebellion and I would just say that he should just look around and say because we're here and they may be doing it again so you better check out and see who they are maybe. Number two is my view of this whole discussion and that I think that the time for talk is gone and that we have to move into organizing an action and that we have to realize that there are two cities in this town. One is white and one is black and that the future of the city will be those two divisions. One white, one black. Now I think as the representative in Newark for an organization that first projected black power that there is plenty of room in a human right struggle in Newark for good white people. I think that they have to get in under black leadership to make

the fight for black control in the city record happen and that it is not racism, it is not extremism. I think it is in the best American tradition Mr. Adonizio that the people who are in the majority should run the city and that I think that Mr. Talbot's committee, the committee of concern, is a good idea and I think they have to realize that perhaps their real role is to get white people involved working for institutional change that their role is primary secondary. The people who will move to change and the real change will be people who deal with grassroots like Jesse Allen, like Oliver Lofton, Bob Kervin, like Esther Williams and Edna Thomas and some of the other people who are sitting here outside of the panel and those are the people who are going to be primary. I would like just finally saying that I think that even that Mr. Malafranti's being here is very racist and undemocratic because there is no reason in the city where you have a black majority

where the person who comes here and represents the authority is an Italian and an Italian being a member of a minority group. I am an organizer and my only job in the city is to get Mr. Adonizio and Mr. Malafranti impotent over the lives of black people in this town. I'd like to speak on education. I'd like to speak on education. We can yield a minute please. Undoubtedly there are overcrowded schools and rat infested slums. In my opinion too much discussion has been directed at those particular points and I would like to get back again to the causes. One of the causes is this. Mr. Talbot said 25 billion is being spent for space race or space exploration. That's not the space program. Well 25 billion dollars.

So what I would like to say is a question of priorities again. Now it's going to take billions of dollars. Not the millions I've mentioned here to correct the evils that exist in Newark and many other northern cities and southern cities too. Now the one thing that I should be corrected is that New Jersey is being short-changed. Newark is being short-changed as far as federal money is concerned because for each dollar New Jersey receives from the federal government. For all these necessities it is paying a dollar and eighty-seven cents. So if we just had returned to the city some of this money it could be spent on a massive program for hospitals housing, middle-income housing and all these other things so badly needed. Colleges for children might tell kids how to go out of the state to go to school. So this is where the money should be spent. But those those in authority should know and it should be not kept quiet. For each dollar we

received from the federal government we are paying a dollar and eighty-seven cents. Now one thing that's responsible for this eruption that happened a revolution whatever you want to call it is this is again I want to point out the lack of jobs and this should be our main concern. Something we really failed to realize yeah okay good. When a black man was brought into this country he was an asset. When he was so cold free he was a liability. The data power structure know that he is a competitor. This is where the trouble lies. When a rich man's son goes to college and a poor man son goes to college there's a principle that's involved. A poor man's son goes to college to get a good job. A rich man's son goes to college to manage a good job. The black man is taught generalization. The white man is taught principles. This is where the trouble comes in at. We failed to realize there's 26 black people dead in the city of Newark and nobody has said

nothing for their families. Everybody's talking facts, statistics, etc. This is good. But there's 26 black people dead and no man has come up here with a solution for that family. There are many others black brothers that are scarred that will be scarred for the rest of their lives. Just like they said it was criminal elements. No. We know that these were warriors. They did what they had to do because the other black people were scared and sit by. Okay you want to condemn the deluders? Look what happened. They tried today. It's all over the country and we I'm saying that the black people in this city should band together and organize properly because this is the only way because like I said like I'm saying now that each person they have died. She get $10,000 just like the federal government would do if you go into service and this is where we ask if people in Newark is to get that money, $260,000 and give to them families, $10,000 a piece. This is how the white man can show some good faith because right now if the white man want to

raise $10,000, $10,000 he can do it but the black man can't do it and this is the this is the sickening part about it. Just like and this is what I'm trying to say again that if this is not done then you're going to have trouble throughout the country. My question is directed at the gentleman of labor. You said that you were concerned about jobs, right? Well I think you have to get an education first before you get a job, right? Now if you read this book out this cyber nation which deals directly with automation, now you know automation is going to take the place of manpower, right? Now the lady from the Wickway section, she stated the conditions in the Wickway section will I live in the heart of the Central Ward. Bell Martin 17th Avenue, if you think the conditions are bad in the Wickway area they are even worse in the Central Ward. Now I tell you there are kids going into the high schools reading at a fourth and fifth grade level. Now when they come out of a high school and they go in there reading at a fourth and fifth

grade level when they get a 12th grade diploma what level are they reading at now. Our high schools are producing kids that can't even fill out an application to apply for a job. So I think we got to get some quality education. What's the answer? What is the answer? We've been here. How did you lose your way of the minute? I was with a delegation with Sergeant Sriver last September and I personally told him to cut the funds for anti-private program coming into New York would be disastrous. It was printed in Washington times this statement. This man I think he must have completely ignored it because I read the paper today when he had decided you know he wasn't coming to New York. Why? Now we need quality education because if a kid is not educated he can't even apply for a job. Can you tell me when I was out riding that the 39 I'm going to tell you I'm not going to lie to you but I was out riding but can you

tell me one thing was there one cop that wasn't out there loading up those police cars. When we was coming out a man tell a shoe store and press tree to cop stop this and he asked us what was what was we doing and so I told him we was taking shoes because I didn't have any. So he said go ahead and then then he stops off suddenly he went in and he got him some shoes. There was some with three TV says portable. Three portable TV says and I want to know if you can seriously tell me that there was no no police officers wide of COVID out there still because that was all taken something. Mr. councilman Mallafonte you asked that question. I asked the councilman you asked the question. The things we're talking about around this table today and I certainly hope that many in

Washington are looking in. His money the city of Newark does not have the funds available now or in the immediate future to do all the things that we would like to do. We certainly would want to build 10 new schools immediately. There's no question about that. There's no question that we are concerned about many of the housing problems. You are concerned to start in the U.S. and my west ward you can go out and tell the people are not to organize vigilantes to go shoot up Negroes. That doesn't take any money. Your car. Do I have the floor as he does. I cannot shut you if I want to but I want money until you do that. I just a moment gentlemen. You'll get a chance sir. You'll get a chance to answer the councilman. Can the councilman finish his statement sir and then we'll get back to you. I don't mean to interrupt

him if he was talking but the point is this. Whether or not there is a white mayor or a black mayor in the city of Newark whether or not the city council is all white or black or partially half and half the fact remains that money is what runs our economy. Jobs run our economy. Industry runs our economy and the time is long overdue where no matter what our differences of opinion may be we must contact the elected officials in Washington as one so that the monies will come into the city of Newark in way of FHA monies so that any private developer can come in and build anywhere in the city. We need federal money because the state certainly doesn't have it. We've been there enough times and this is the the the thing that I would like to point out the all groups all segments all spectrums of the political sphere that money must come into the city of Newark so that we can do the jobs that have been mentioned around as table

all day long. If we are to draw the lessons the white people in this room made some constructive comments but if the trade union leaders don't take it upon themselves to call meetings of every one of their locals and dispel the fact that police brutality is a myth then there is no serious addressment to the problem. If the mayor of the city of Newark doesn't ask each of his white councilmen to deal with the white backlash which is happening in the westward where I live I go out there I challenge you councilman Adonizio to deputize me and Bill Iverson who's talking to white people and Negro people to explain to them the real meaning of the ghetto let's start there to change these attitudes the committee of concern already received information of organizations in your ward were organizing birchite vigilantes to shoot up the Negro people we whites have a serious responsibility to recognize that we have become dehumanized those of us who understand I reject the fact that we are old humanized I have a little bit of understanding and I've got

a lot to learn but those of us who have this slight degree of understanding if we are serious our responsibility is to go to the white community and not to argue with black power I've been a Jewish leader for years and I remember the words of Hillel if I am not for me then who will be in if not now when this is the thinking I need to try to summarize what it is people have tried to tell the city administration otherwise this this meeting would mean much less than it can mean I just want to just say that I'm trying to see what I've tried to learn myself here that that we have immense problems in Newark and they have not been met I think that I have made mistakes and others have made mistakes many around this table I think that I've learned to distrust those who have easy answers to the problem because I don't think

there are any and that I personally believe racism is the root of our problem in Newark and until we attack it we're not going to make progress I think further that if there's some message for all of us is that that riot is madness and all who act in it are mad and that goes for both police and rioters and that perhaps there is a message for both black and white to the black community perhaps that that riot is tragedy and there need to be other avenues perhaps as Bob and some others have expressed through political action that there need to be some other avenues for the expression of quite legitimate anger and frustration and to the white and I think it's a message the whites have to buy namely that there is racism abroad and that if a riot does anything it makes the white man and I include myself in that face his own racism and to every white who is watching this program and who feels anger or fear at what Negro revolt if you'll call it all over

the all over the world feels he needs to look in the mirror and to face his racism if that's what it is that bothers him that troubles him now and to do something about it and until I think we all face the fact that at the root of it all is racism deeply embedded in American life until we face it and dig it out then these riots will have no meaning if they tell us down deep that something has got to be done in the white community about facing its own racism then we have gained something from the madness that is these riots perhaps since we're approaching the end of the program if we could perhaps lay out at least some demands in a sense that should be considered before the community has any reduction in tension or any or we can hope for any kind of peace I think we might perhaps end on a positive note and I would say most infatically that the victims of the

revolt and those people that are jailed especially should be seen as the warriors of our cause and in fact they should all of those that are in jail should be released immediately secondly secondly whatever the mayor says the community will not accept a medical school under the present terms and that people are so desperate about their housing and their problems that they in fact are ready to die and something has to be done in order to get this point across to the mayor the next point is that you Mr. Miller-Fronty speaking for the mayor or perhaps can take to him the fact that you have heard much about police brutality you've heard it from from vice presidents of corporations here you've heard it from poor people you've heard it from the middle class

you've heard it from everybody there's been no disagreement about the brutality that's been reaped upon our people be convinced of it it's there and something has to be done about it spin has got to go and somebody has to control the behavior of the racist policeman and the north police department these are the conditions of peace and we want peace we'll be back for some comments and reactions on mid-summer 1967 in just a moment and now to our guests Mr. John Field is Executive Director of the Community Relations Services of the United States Conference of Mayors he was formerly Executive Director of the President's

Committee on Equal Employment Opportunity and between 1947 and 1959 headed Michigan's Fair Employment Practices Commission and the Community Relations Commission's of Toledo and Detroit John A. Buggs is President of the National Association of Intergroup Relations Officials and Deputy Director of the newly created Model Cities Program in the Department of Housing and Urban Development prior to this as Executive Director of the Los Angeles Human Relations Commission since 1954 he worked with the minority groups helping them integrate into the larger community thereby reducing the possibility of racial conflict gentlemen to me the most pressing question nine I guess the most immediate problem is what can we learn from Newark as illuminated by that program that might be applied to the nation as a whole and might prevent us in mid-summer 1968 being right where we are in mid-summer 1967. Can we learn anything from Newark Mr. Bugg? I think that what I have seen and what this audience has seen is to some extent

a carbon coffee of what has happened in many communities prior to Newark where situations of this kind have developed I think there are many lessons that can be learned one of the lessons I think that most people were trying to get over to those who were in positions of authority in Newark was the fact that generally speaking not just in that city but in most cities throughout this country the people who need to be heard the people who need to be dealt with positively and effectively have not in the past been heard and have not been dealt with in the fashion in which they would want to be dealt with if that lesson and only that lesson is learned I think by a city throughout this nation will be at least part of the way towards solving the kinds of problems we've got how hopeful are you that they will be learned they can be learned granted the moment.

To some extent quite hopeful if one were to ask me which you have in a sense based on my Los Angeles experiences to the extent to which the situation that developed there in August 1965 has created a learning experience for people I think the answer is that certainly has I don't believe that the things that they have learned have as yet become apparent to the community as a whole I've often said that the progress in Los Angeles for example is more real than it is apparent and when I made that statement what I really meant was that for the first time in the history of that community and I suspect for the first time in the history of Newark there are people now who are beginning to understand something that they never understood before and through understanding are beginning fledgling beginning though it may be to deal effectively with the part of the problem in terms of the manner in which they attempt to approach the problem which

has been entirely different in the past from what it has to be in the future. You sharing this measure of optimism? Well one has to always remain eternally optimistic or I don't think you could face the daily experience that we have to face but I think I would add two things one is that I would pick up on the last comment that Don Melafranti made which indicated that I think those who are faced with responsibility do learn out of these desperate events. There's always a learning that goes on but the second emphasis that I think I would add is that we are clearly going to have to go through a great deal more learning process. I grew up in Detroit and I got into the public affairs side of community life because of the 1943 race riots there. I was headed for a school teacher career and I just decided that those events were a little bit

too disastrous to place my career eggs only in the field of education. The whole process of learning is not simply involved in formal education. I'm not quite so optimistic to be to be candid. I think things are in a very desperate condition in this nation. I don't have a command post office like some of our cities have in terms of getting intelligence information on conditions daily but I can read the newspapers in the last two years probably been the most discouraging years for me that I've seen in the last 25. Mr. Bow you mentioned that you said that in Los Angeles the progress has been more real than apparent and yet we're told that what's right now is on the verge of another riot and this is two years after the riot what has been done once? You know I'll try to get to that question but I think what John feel has just said in terms

of a lack of optimism and what you assume to be an optimistic point of view on my part represents to some degree the difference between Negroes and Caucasians in terms of how they see things for one who has been in a sense on the receiving end where there was a total curtain through which the ability to penetrate was absolutely impossible and on the other hand a person who has really not been behind that curtain but who has helped in a sense to try to penetrate it but who has not himself been there makes the difference in terms of optimism and pessimism because I can see that the curtain has been penetrated in some areas that I had not seen before when I said that the progress in Los Angeles I think was more real than apparent I simply meant this that if one is going to judge progress in terms of what happened in that community in August of 1965 by the numbers of buildings that have been rebuilt by a dramatic

perceptible change in the unemployment rate by the numbers of housing units that have been reconstructed there by the numbers of businesses that have gone back in the community then one would be discouraged and one would not see progress being made but if on the other hand progress is deemed to be a process through which people have to go as a means of reaching an objective in terms of their understanding of the problem in terms of the character and the quality of communication that is going on in terms of the concerns that people are now expressing with respect to the problems that others have been talking about but had not been heard in the past if we're talking about that kind of progress which I think is always necessarily a prelude to the kind of progress that is apparent then I would say that progress is being made certainly not fast enough even in the kind of progress I'm talking about but much more so than existed in

that community prior to August of the 11th 1965. I have some great sympathetic to what John had just said well I had an experience last night I sat through a four-hour meeting with 20 of the nation's leading business labor religious civic and civil rights leaders trying to hammer out some kind of direction that could bring an immediate response to the kind of experience we've been going through and we went down all the list of the things that are pending for example before Congress the Model Cities legislation John and the poverty program and the amendments to the Social Security legislation to increase those benefits and the list was a long one and the preventing reaction to those men sitting at that table was this isn't enough we've had 82 cities in the past two years two summers that have had major racial disturbances rebellions revolts at revolting conditions and our capacity to deliver on the improvement of

those conditions with the kinds of measures that we now have even in the pipeline is just insufficient to respond effectively to what we have encountered the people have asked why Detroit here was a city with superior municipal leadership with a police department that was dedicated to the concept of equal treatment that abolished the stop and frisk procedure that was on the right on the right track why Detroit the resource gap between what was needed for those squalid conditions in that city and what the city could in fact do about it was just too great one out of every five families in that city is poor I mean desperately poor and the capacity of a city to put into effect neighborhood youth core programs how many neighborhood youth core kids are there receiving benefit from that kind of attachment back to the community a thousand the gap is too great the sense of urgency that we require was pretty much articulated by by

these this this committee last night and in coming down to a desperate measure they like and much of what we're going through now to the to the crash of 1929 to the desperation of the 30s when you got millions of people in the central cities who really are desperate and they they called for an emergency program work and reconstruction pretty pretty pretty much the tone of the the WPA if you want to call it that or they want to do something new that would involve training and primitive attachment that the need to reorder the national priorities is a is a is the only avenue that they could see that would bring the degree of urgency into meeting what we're up against how with the two of you reorder national priorities in dealing with this crisis well I think John is right but I think that there is one element that was prevading this this whole new egg meeting that we ought not miss and it did not relate itself all totally to this whole

question of of money being the solution to the problem money is a tool it is not the end product a job as a tool to the change in a man's life it in and of itself isn't going to change his life I think what people were trying to say there and hopefully an answer to your question in terms of priorities is the fact that there has been built up in this nation over a long period of time an attitudinal fix with respect to certain kinds of people and who they are and what they stand for and what their worth and value as individuals actually is and this is what these people were really trying to say that the attitudes that are projected toward them by the vast majority of Americans constitutes the situation in which they have been made to feel that they are not real people the attitude toward Negro that's right that they are not real human beings that they are not a hundred percent human and if we could in a sense create a situation and John has been

working in this field as long a longer than I have in terms of the field of intergroupulations in which we could in some way get people to recognize the fact that the symbolism of a lack of a job the symbolism of lack of a decent house the symbolism of poor education testifies to the fact in the minds of the Negro community that they are not looked upon as real people worthy of these of high assembles it is the real thing I think that these that these people are talking about it's how people feel about them how people look at them that they are really concerned about and when they say they want a job when they say they want better education when they say they want decent housing what they are really saying is that you have deprived us of the symbols which testify to our equality and by that deprivation you have

indicated to us that we are not quality people let me pick up on the John's theme and still focus on the reordering of priorities I there's no question that dollars aren't the only fact or aren't the only factor in that issue nor are they the only priority area that needs reordering I'll hark back to the Newark dialogue one of the speakers spoke of the necessity to reform the whole system of administration of justice there was reference made by another speaker to the fact that we had the Wickersham report on crime in this country 30 years ago and we've had two more reports prior to the recent one are the recommendations of the commission the national commission on crime are they going to receive a priority worth it that's going to meet any difference in the way that the administration of system of justice really works we hear the crimes for jobs and education but specifically now in the context of this mid-summer 1967 what do we

do specifically where do the jobs come from where does the money come from the money is really not a great problem well what kind of let me let me put it in perspective but we don't really hesitate about deficits in the national arena congressman mayhan is alarmed because we're having a thirty million dollar thirty billion dollar deficit would he be any more alarmed if we had a thirty five billion dollar deficit maybe he'd be a little bit more alarmed but is he going to continue to be unalarmed about the problem that he's got a face unless he gets that that resource put in the pot if the president said we've got a national treasure large enough to do all of these things i'll go with that and i think we're just going to have to face it we're going to have to put some real massive resources now this summer into the pot and realistically and realistic what on the chances of doing that you think of getting it done after labor day will the memory of this

long summer fade away will we go back and pick up the pieces and put them together just as they were before or do you think these programs will be implemented my right reactions that is i think we've got a very good chance to do it we've been debating worrying we're concerned about the so-called white backlash we're concerned that this will push us further toward a kind of a reaction which will say well you can't you can't reward rioters but you can't you can't punish the ninety nine percent of the people who live in these quality conditions who weren't rioting by that kind of reaction and my hope is and i think a lot of people feel that as we begin to sort out our fears and our apprehensions and our in our reactions to what we see i react with a great deal of fear when i see a Molotov cocktail tossed into an automobile and i see myself riding that machine down the street but as we sort these out my feeling is that we are not in a in a

bad position to make an assessment that will lead us to commit those resources that we need to commit and that will lead us to a much better sharing in the decision making processes of the local communities and of the national levels of people who are affected by what we do and who have a right to participate in that decision making process i think we're the chances are better because of the intensity of our apprehension if we can sort it out that way i don't think that's that if is yet yet clear let us take Detroit and project ourselves in what specific and i hate again to harp on this specifics what specifically can be done in Detroit next week to fend off the chances of riding in the summer of 16 oh i can't tell you specifically what should be done in Detroit but i want to tell you specifically what what what has to be done i think in any american city where you have a situation of this kind the first order of business it seems

to me on the basis of what people say is the ability to provide at a minimum standard for the needs of a family we suggested for example in Los Angeles that by november first the ride was in august five thousand additional jobs ought to be made available to people who were unemployed through for example the creation of new parks in the angeles national fires in the building of new roads in the ghetto area and fixing curbs and fixing streetlights in other words pouring money into that area as a means of creating jobs but also of doing things that really needed to be done to give the people an indication of the fact the government was indeed interested in their plight and was doing something about it that's the first thing that have to be has to be done i think though that that's really a palliative and in a short term kind of goal that has to be done prior to all while the community is preparing itself to really grapple with the basic problems

that exist in the community well at the the the kind of measures that john outlines are certainly in the right direction and they certainly are limited there has to be a long term recognition that that we are going to have to provide an opportunity for people who aren't in who are the have nots to get some income that they earn and to get some support if they're unable to earn it six million of the seven and a half million people in this country that received public assistance can't work they're either too old or too young and they're living on marginal income the whole the level of life has got to be attacked at the same time were those five thousand jobs created no they were not not at that time and i'm not sure that they are now but there's one other thing i think i ought to say so that i don't leave an erroneous impression and that is that when when eagles talk about jobs they're saying something else and i didn't hear it articulated in a new look situation i didn't hear it articulated in los angeles i don't know whether it was

articulated and destroyed or not but what they really mean when they talk about jobs is that they want a slice of the free enterprise capitalistic system they just don't want to be participants in it they want to be a part of it how can this be realized this can be realized i think the great many ways i think private industry has a role to play in this i think that we have the capacity we have the knowledge we have the know how all we lack is the dedication to provide an opportunity for people who have in a sense been read out of the system to be read into it by providing training by providing providing job experiences by finding young people who can be executives and administrators and doing for them the same thing that american industry does for any bright young man now for years without a number of programs before us but never do i think out has the need been as urgent what specifically mr. Bellevue first if you would what specific proposals would you make and what realistically you think their chances are being passed i think

many of the programs that uh that have been projected on a national level that have not come into fruition or if they have they've been so piddling that they really haven't done the job really need to be upgraded and other programs also need to be developed the right supplement program for example uh the problems have been increasing welfare pains to those persons who cannot now live decently on what they're getting problems of doing away uh with those rats and roaches and they crawl over the breakfast foods of people through a real massive housing program i think all of these things have to be done uh the extent to which they will be done is the question that i just can't answer i think the need is there i think the need has been demonstrated i think it is now up to the people who make the decisions to make those needs uh into a reality and yet you have some contact with the people who make those decisions uh one what is your visceral assessment if you will of what what the chances are i really don't have those contacts uh i cannot speak

for the department of housing and urban development i think i i know what the secretary's feelings are on this i think that he feels these programs are tremendously necessary uh the extent to to which he feels they are going to be immediately available i couldn't tell you mr. think you're looking at me i'll give you an offbeat one i i we bet our heads against the federal budget so often let me give you two that don't have a direct bearing on the federal budget that we might have some chance of getting immediately that would shine would funnel uh income into the hands of people who are deserving of it and i i emphasize the deserving uh we've been doing some studies of people who live in our cities and one of the things that just this startling to us uh there were two and a half million heads of households last year that live in cities that worked full time and their families ended up in poverty they worked full time now congress last year passed an uh an increase in the

minimum wage law uh next everywhere it's supposed to be a dollar seventy five there's no reason why that couldn't be made immediately effective uh it would be the difference between poverty and at least a minimum subsistence income it's a difference between twenty nine hundred dollars a year and thirty six hundred dollars a year you mentioned the atmosphere in the house of representatives about the rat control bill do you think it will be done you think the minimum the atmosphere is ripe now for the minimum wage to be raised well i i think it has it has a rationale that is consistent at least with those who are who are trying to evaluate what they should do to be helpful if the rationale is that these people are working full time trying to sustain their families and that means they're teenagers and their other kids and if they had the income the rationale for this is it's going to give them more dignity and more reason to believe in this free free enterprise system about is there sufficient awareness on the part of city officials for example that this

should be done so the pressure could then be put on federal officials oh as a as an old county employee i i i think that to some extent the answer is yes i've sat in i've sat in meetings of the board of supervisors and heard them cry out for help time and time and time again recognizing the fact that the tax burden the property tax burden on the people is about as much as as they can bear and they they have nowhere else to turn except to the national government i think they do recognize the position there and i think they're going to redouble their clamor and i think they're going to try to make that case that they haven't that i think their feeling is one of frustration the councilman in in Newark you know he's he's confronted with this budget every year with which translates itself into a property tax and he's look he says where are we going to get the dollars and he's frustrated and it may be his frustration in those of other city councilman maybe the city councils of those 82 cities that i was mentioning are going to have to collectively get reconsider and reinforce and renew that demand for some national health you mentioned a massive

housing program yet mayor Lindsey of New York since he estimates that it would take $50 billion to rebuild New York City alone now multiplying that by 12 or 15 how realistic is it that our cities will be rebuilt that the ghettos will disappear well let me let me give you a little dimension on it Lindsey's figure was based on a cost over a 10 year period so he figures a five billion dollar estimate a year would get in New York into a posture where it could gain on it slums instead of fall behind on them mayor mayor Allen did a similar calculation on Atlanta recently he said that he figured a 30 billion dollar investment was going to be essential to to deal with urban problems to do to get the ketchup going a million housing starts a year in the low income categories would eliminate our slum housing in five years now that's a is a million housing starts an impossible capital investment crossed for us for lowering in families i don't think it's

unreasonable i think we i think our problem of scale needs the honesty of those kinds of estimates that means are going to have to reorder where we're going to make investments and where we're going to put the dollars that we have to invest you're going to invest you know nobody wants to to to quarrel with the other kinds of commitments we have made so nobody quarrels for example with the commitment for interstate highway system we said we're going to build a national interstate highway system this country to modernize it we are doing that at a very rapid clip and it's essential to this country the same kind of you know essential priority has got to be given to these kinds of of urban needs you think you will see those million new starts a year from now two years from now well i think chances are improving in the sense that the case for the need couldn't be more dramatic than it is today this is almost the unthinkable question is it possible but the nation goes back to business as usual and the ghetto remains the ghetto and

the discontent remains the discontent i i don't think so john i'll join you in that i i cannot believe that we are not going to see in this country what i for a lack of a better sense have to call a moral reawakening i mean i'm essentially a political animal morality you know is somebody else's specialty but i think that morality is is the kind of an issue are we going are all these citizens of ours going to be left behind we've got a we've got an obligation that i think is is going to grasp the conscience of this nation then we'll start sorting out the political processes by which we can fulfill that obligation we're in a lot of funny and phony political debate about that right now and we're also in a lot of very serious debate about methods and techniques whether we're going to get private investment to deal with low income housing or whether we're going to build more public housing okay that's an honest debate

but the but the debates got to be got to be pushed up higher in the sense that we've got to make some resolution of where we're going to commit ourselves maybe we can commit ourselves to both of the avenues i i feel that we're in a we're in a watershed i use the term that americavena used we we we have to we have to fall in the right direction and i i i share john spatiny in the american people i think there is an enormous amount of decency and that decency is going to translate itself into some political decisions into some public policy decisions into some local private actions you know up and Detroit just last time i was talking to the people again about emergency actions that a Negro sorority sent a check down to the mayor's office and said here's the first $2,000 contribution to a mayor's emergency fund to feed clothes and sustain some of these 5,000 people that are homeless that fund has already increased 24 and the mayor's office just started making a few calls that's decency and we and and i think that's going to grow and we're going to

be putting it to work and and making it work if we don't then then god help us at this mid summer the best we can hope for is that there will be no more major outbreaks like newwork and Detroit we can't be sure nor can we be sure that even a vast programs local and national are instituted that there won't be other and more violent summers following this one however we cannot ignore the millions of American Negroes living in poverty in this country and we should not hold the majority of that population to blame for the violent actions of a few as we've just heard there are things we can do programs already proposed programs we have chosen to ignore or only partially implement if violent summers are not to continue indefinitely we must put aside fears and hatreds and politics and translate community dialogue into community action so when i talk about this it's funny that we've made it you already know

you This is NET, the National Educational Television Network.