Playwright at Work; 1; Arthur L. Kopit

What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? I don't think that a playwright or a writer if he's not writing a hack piece by that I mean you know something on assignment we'll never really or shouldn't know what his plays are about until he finishes them and I think this is perhaps the great motivating force in writing the plays that you have a theme or some characters or a situation areas of sensitivity or something which you want to explore and so you go through the play you have perhaps an ending or a second act or you know that something's going to happen here and you don't know

what and you start the play not only to finish it but to find out for yourself what it all means to you music In playwright at work we're concerned with a new generation of playwrights with examining their thoughts, working methods, and their aspirations our guest today is Arthur L. Copet Mr. Copet's play, oh dad, poor dad, mama's hung you in the closet and I'm feeling so sad written for a campus play contest at Harvard attracted so much praise for its individualism its

trenchant mixture of farce and horror that it was quickly scheduled for productions on Broadway and in London's West End later in the program we'll see a scene from Mr. Copet's current work in progress Christmas with the cannibals the scene will be directed for us by Frank Cressaro who's been represented on Broadway by a number of successful productions including a hat full of rain actors in the scene will be Mr. Tom Helmor Kier DeLay and Bill Moore Arthur, your play, oh dad poor dad, I love that title was subtitled in a fascinating way you called it a pseudo -classical treasure farce in a bastard French tradition now what did you really mean by that? well I don't know it sounded good and you know I think that basically I felt that if someone picked up a play you know called oh dad poor dad etc and found that it was subtitled the pseudo -classical treasure farce in a bastard French tradition that instinctively know that they hadn't read one of those in a hell of a long time what's a

tragedy farce? well I think of it just as a farceical treatment of tragic material or so simple enough like that and the French tradition from which it comes? well the thing is that it's a bastard French tradition because I've used certain characteristics of French plays for my own purposes and sort of used them to comment upon the material which is what you know a pseudo -classical tragedy farce that it's a self -conscious use of the style to comment upon the play itself which you know means nothing a self -conscious use of the style that is style as style to add a further comment upon the material of the play itself the farce form besides distancing the tragedy which is which is I think the function of tragedy farce or one important one is that you take material

which is serious or tragic and then you treat it comically or farcically and what that does is it distances the tragedy so that the audience can observe it and understand or not analyze but does it make it easier for the audience to accept certain horrors? well it would you see because they accept it in a convention or in a horror like a horror story you'll accept things in a ghost story that you wouldn't normally and then once you've accepted it the purpose is then to turn the knife so that you realize that what has happened is not a joke but a serious a way of leading the audience yeah it's a it's a it's a bridge to lead the audience into the tragic material where they would normally resist because of certain conventions today in the theater well the great deal of attention has been paid to the originality of the subject material of your plays what would you say your plays are about? well I don't know what they're about I don't think that

that a playwright or a writer if he's not writing a or a hack piece by that I mean you know something on on assignment we'll never really or shouldn't know what his plays are about until he finishes them and I think this is perhaps the great motivating force in writing the plays that you have a theme or some characters or a situation areas of sensitivity or something which you want to explore and so you go through the play you have perhaps an ending or a second act or you know that something's going to happen here you don't know what and you start the play not only to finish it but to find out for yourself what it all means to you what it means what's going to happen so unless the author himself has or can find an element of surprise and excitement in this work which is in finding out what it means to himself then then it will all seem flat instead you know which is the danger of the well -made play that you know too much of what you're going to do you see are you're not a great fan of naturalism

I would no I'm not I rather dislike it but mainly because I find it boring it doesn't it doesn't open out to you know you you see the material and the implications are inherent in the surface of the play usually and and at least I feel that if you've seen a good naturalistic play you could have gotten the same thing by just being a little bit more observant about people around you it hasn't added it seems to be a new insight about people I thought what are your aspirations in the theater which way do you want the theater to go and what contribution can you make to taking it in that direction oh that's a toughy can I answer the first part please come back to that well I don't know well let's just say my aspirations are to write better plays to know more of what I'm doing to gain control of style and form so that I can make them work for me and to gain more and more freedom

in what is basically a very constricted style it's the playwright is a craftsman it's not WRITE and so what I want to do is be able to gain as much craft as I can and then have it second nature not have it imposed itself upon me to gain a freedom I also want to see if I can use greater use of music or dance not in a musical comedy way but in a free form of theater using different elements music, dance, mind film clips, anything like that to simply to free oneself and as for the did you say the future of the theater or something where the theater will go? I said something idiotic like that thank you very much I'll call myself satisfied with that answer let me ask you what is your not going to get anymore what would you call your own dramatic lineage or the heritage in other words

from what school in the theater does your work come who would you call your say influences or is there is there precedent for for what you're doing in any sense well once or a good production of high -button shoes and no well yes I don't know you know you see everything and it influences you in a way this oh dad was written in a pseudo classical French style it's influenced by French playwrights my genre do I knew he but you know the next play that I read will influence me in some way and I don't think I've been very influenced by the American theater I don't think anyone has why not well you know why there's nothing there I mean basically you know there's musical comedy and there's naturalism and when the playwright has

left this some way he's he's left it with a strong stamp of Europe this Thornton Wilder oh I don't know it's it's never excited me the way a European play has way sharp or brushed or stringberg they've opened things up and an American playwright I never want to see an American play twice you know even the very good ones one two three of them there's no reason to see them again you know it all when you've seen it and the style was constricting in a sense the form there was no poetry to it I think is there any difference in your technique between oh dad and the play we're going to see a scene from Christmas with the cannibals yes this Christmas with the cannibals if I think I would just call it a tragic comedy it's more anchored in reality and their people are more real but they're doing mad things the difference between farce and comedy

is that one of the differences it's not as much in a in a European style I don't think it's not too worked out I have more characters wondering around in the play and at the moment I've been working on it now for about a year and a half off and on and uh mostly off and I'm not sure when I'll get down to write it because I'm not quite sure what the elements are that should go into it what's the theme of Christmas with the cannibals that's one of the things I'm not sure I understand I think it has to do with identity and that is not you know who am I not my my soul but what have I done people in the play are hiding things about themselves guilds but it goes simpler than that they don't know their relationships they don't know who is my aunt my sister who did I see yesterday they've forgotten this is something that we can talk about after we've seen the scene and I think now is a good time to have a look at it we'll ask Frank Quasaro the director

to set the scene for us Frank please the scene of our play is a room in a castle on an island in the Caribbean in one corner of this room there are three male minstrels in a girl in medieval costume who drink from a communal god play on lutes and sing the girl starts oh have you ever loved a lady loved a lady such as I and he oh I have loved a lot of ladies but with you I'd love to lie and she but if I let you love me kind so after that what would we do and he why we would love again my pretty myself my friends and you is this the room yes I don't like it

and one of those minstrels supposed to be period pieces too forgive me sir that was a mistake they shouldn't have been in here of course they shouldn't they should have been in a museum like the rest of this house I don't care where they should have been I only wanted to know who the hell they were they were part of the entertainment you'll find this soul for more comfortable I think the seal will be with you presently how do you know I beg your pardon sir how do you know that the seal will be with me presently did he tell you so himself was that something but to say automatically whenever they leave a room I know only that he wishes to meet with you sir I mean you've actually seen him that desire has been personally expressed I

wasn't even sure that he existed it sure exists well that's a comforting thought isn't it I wouldn't know sir is it good morning father glad to see me again what's the matter cat got your tongue well I I didn't expect to see you quite this way I'm surprised you expected to see me at all well now you've mentioned it I didn't much expect that either well that I'd say it was a day of unexpected good fortune wouldn't you surprises all around felicitous happenings in the old family circle still to speak tell me father

besides myself of course just what is it about me that you didn't expect well this house the one thing oh my house yes of course it's quite isn't it we call this the orgy room and I didn't expect you to be exactly dressed that way but it's my custom father it's for tonight for the party after the wedding don't tell me you thought I'd dressed this way all the time I think it's very becoming don't you I think you're mad whiplah father the practical son has returned as a field having back again good I expect I really think you're mad oh father you really shouldn't say things like that you hurt me when you do no come father tell me truthfully

how do you think he looks your son after seven years you are mad aren't you well sparkling conversation never was your fault you're looking much worse however that I will say just in case you wanted to know you're looking much older to be specific you're not as handsome neither no not the way used to be all the way used to be father so handsome dignified I used to envy you so now father now you're almost a common looking now lines of regret and worries flatten it all over your face yes falling out too your teeth are going to go next you're going to need your courage then

tell me father tell me where are the snows of yesterday what's the matter you don't have much to say do you I don't understand this room what kind of a thing is that to say the nerve salting another person's house so Michael took you on the grand tour that was what prompted my remark of course well it may not be much but it's home to me by home you mean lunatic asylum of course yes of course did you see the one with the um flowers in it oh is that what you call them I was wondering what they were they were at least a foot above my head well the wild flowers that's the way they grow they grow very

tall but it's a very nice room don't you think charming yes it's called the African arboreum that's its name good name did you see that one did you take you there too oh yes he took me there too it's my favorite I should have guessed real snow too I know oh was it snowing? all over the floor well we have a snowstorm every day one at ten in the morning and one at two in the afternoon it keeps the igloo in good shape I wouldn't want it any other way you have snow machines in the ceiling that's how I get the snow and here I thought it was an act of God oh no it's the snow machines they're very expensive too but I think they're worth it in the long run oh I'm sure

what about the dungeon did he take you there too dungeon you have a dungeon yes what's a castle lot a dungeon I always say precisely it's a very good dungeon too every stone is imported from a prison of the southern coast of France even the rats are imported shame you didn't see it I guess I'll have to take you there myself my father father why? well aren't you even going to ask me about her? who? your future daughter and my father aren't you even going to ask me about her? oh yes yes well um

what's she like? wow very nice of you to ask it so happens I was just about to ask anyway oh well uh what's her name? her name yes I suppose that is important her name uh I call her Angela Angela lovely name Angela and what is her last name? her last name to tell you the truth father hadn't thought of one yet you haven't thought of one yet no give me time father I will well what does she look like? she's very soft and she moves gently and when she walks she's very graceful I mean her face oh I've never seen her face she always wears a piece of veil across it a dark knit of gauze sometimes if you look just right

you can almost make out the glow of her eyes you really are a man don't you forgive me for interrupting you in but the boat with your bride has been spotted it's approaching the shore I just thought you might like to know oh forgive me there's some things I must take care of oh by the way father I was looking over the list of guests who have arrived and I noticed much to my surprise that mama wasn't listed oh well uh she uh she couldn't make it oh well that explains it doesn't it ta ta

good work fellas take five and we'll do it again it's a very good smile on the face of our director gentlemen I'd like to open the discussion by asking Arthur now that he's seen his scene what he thinks about it well uh I think there are a number of problems in the scene itself because it was written really as a study of the characters this wouldn't be the opening scene in the play which I had finished about a year ago and it's kind of bad shape and I had thought for a while of uh using the first scene of that but we ran into a number of problems that there were too many characters and you didn't quite know what was happening in the scene it was kind of diffuse

so I thought I would take two central characters and write a scene about them not necessarily to start the play but just have the meat and bring it to a conclusion uh and so for that it was useful to see them but the problems inherent are that this kind of scene couldn't open the play for uh for a number of reasons did you have any problems frank in directing the scene oh well the problem was as always um what what scene would follow this and therefore what must the audience follow logically what must they get from this to then proceed on into the play and there is no scene to follow this in the play because it comes to a conclusion there would be no character coming on because it reaches almost a melodramatic conclusion and to bring a new character in would add two sort of melodramatic devices and the audience would you know wouldn't take them both gentlemen and working in uh in this kind of way do you find it difficult to communicate uh certain relationships to the audience with all of the bizarre qualities uh uh which seem to be on the surface of the

scene do they detract from what you're really trying to say Arthur and Frank well I don't think they detract as long as the audience can follow the logic some kind of logic the logic of events for instance in authors oh dead uh the logic is implacable I mean you know you move from scene to scene a definite event and a series of events are taking place and the extravagance of behavior the marvelous uh kind of incongruous and insane uh quality of the life that we're seeing it becomes really uh the source because actually underneath it's a very serious and it moves in a very serious way and that is that uh uh in order to be funny to be antique you have to have a home base you see and this is one of the problems we had with this scene which is that uh we had more uh sense of the antique of it the uh the mood of the bizarre and we didn't quite know where and what to anchor for the audience therefore say

oh I understand what this is about but what is going on between the father and son well you see what's happening is that I one of the reasons I wanted to write this scene is that I'm not quite sure I know things are going on I know there are areas of sensitivity which would have to be explored later in the play such as the dungeon something is going to happen in the dungeon uh and for certain reasons the son is believing that he might put the father in the dungeon might later turn out that no one goes to the dungeon at all I hope somebody I hope so tell me so I wasn't quite sure you see what would happen like the bride for instance the bride is going to you know to come with with Wagner music but uh I'm not quite sure why you see I started with a situation with a house with a character with relationships so what I was trying to do is to explore these and try different paths to find my way clear to a second scene as a matter of fact you know out of this came a very interesting possibility uh the play has progressed from a full length play which you know author and I went over and he's beginning to define these at least one specific

relationship is suggested as having a very definite dramatic thread that we can follow there's a tentative suggestion of it here but at the same time there's the possibility that uh it is possible to bring in for instance this is a form of the play all the people concerned and therefore create the mystery of the leading character the fellow Julian in other words bring him in finally dramatically where he must appear you see the father supposedly has been there what happens before this the scene takes place he said the father's been there about two days with a number of other guests when we don't see on the island and he's been waiting for a son and a son hasn't appeared and so when he says I was wondering if Monsieur really exists at that moment what would happen if I were writing the play you know the entire thing is that when he finally said that the audience also is beginning to wonder if Monsieur finally exists they've built up various images which have been presented by the other characters and when they finally wonder does the guy exist or doesn't he you know well let's see him finally or then not caring then he enters you know at that moment because the play is about a theatrical

sort of thing in that sense there's a logic implied what are all these people doing why have they been brought to this rather strange setting and what is actually going on so therefore the leading character is somehow responsible for some kind of event that will take place you see which he suggests is a rather unusual one above and beyond merely a mere wedding so what this does is simply sets two people and lets them talk and the audience doesn't know what's going to happen in a sense I don't but I know where things are going to happen and that's what I wanted to touch upon and all the elements that will probably come out later are inherent in this play I mean in the scene everything that will follow has been hinted at here where are the traces or hints of the themes of guilt and identity that you spoke of or is that too? Well it's all sort of running through it's in what the characters are doing and what they're trying to pretend they're not you know it's in the dialogue I think it's sort of running through the whole well you certainly get by the way in a suggestion that the relationship between the father and son that there's a mixture of

hostility and love and guilt you know and I think that the boy in a sense reveals only one shade which is in that sense the eccentric part of his character when there's much more to come Arthur when you continue to write plays in this sort of far out style or way can we look for more plays Well Frank I don't know I don't write a play I don't start with a style I have a theme or some characters or a place and that dictates the style I've written some realistic one -act plays fantasies just entertainment forces and I like this form but I won't superimpose this form upon a theme you know I'd rather feel at ease in other styles too it just so happens that I was working with a couple of subjects that needed this style sort of treating Thanks very much gentlemen on this program of playwright at work we've had a brief look at the current philosophy and future promise of a new American playwright Arthur L. Coupit

This is NET National Educational Television Thank you very much