1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-08-02; Part 2 of 6

it's been and the opposition is a tempting political views we came in he said the water is the opposition's attention to exploit journal poll another poll worker jackson go into law but graham says the mexican businesses have a serious interest in for a little while and even the snow

was there any discussion anybody you know you're right

i was aware of talks in the time since and i've seen the gentleman ran out of the record i've talked to about this and we went over again one of the quran and i think one of its lead into the conversation after all i've been away for some time ive been volatile things in my memory was less than perfect at that list and you know i had no intention of you're a poker anything else you know and the medical services for regional

stability in which he mentioned these loosely ms tunstall and i'm referring to a nice ourselves record custody of the committee which was written several days after twenty three which has subsequently saw which i have not seen at the time that i was testifying i talked to in the waters about it i had no reason to hope that question that there are no orders memorandum he has an excellent ability to recall you where he's an excellent linguist didn't speak five or six languages believe that he can serve at that level of a recall something for five days after the event obviously talking about this fairly forgotten that

introductory as like the only known your own memory or for no reason they are well i don't think that this will be a rather significant and one important signal came in your testimony well it's a combination of the two most thompson because when he got

my memory we were back of the meeting together and i did recall his remarks mr allah these days villages

reading together thank

you i mean a matter of fact that memorandum was not on the table at that time as i recall there was an affidavit but i believe that those memorandum submitted subsequently the committee i may be wrong june twenty eight users

the vision vision vision there's vision especially imagine none of the

suspects none of the suspects was working for this network for the agency in the last two years employment was touching or absence of the current ongoing digital retouching of the court i wasn't alone i do who is that

almost a quarter of an employee of the cia for some twenty years before he retired as talented work at least fifteen anymore and a couple of the cubans have at one time and contractual relationship with new york you mind giving me the names are not computer and it had a barber and i think that relationship back in the early sixties i think this is another and i think he had one martini is a sort of attainder to individuals fifty dollars a

month on the understanding that he would report him from time to time we have something to report when i found out that he was still a lonely or not had this connection with the agency at the time i was breaking it was cut off so right after we discovered that he was involved in the right meanwhile ms martinez was a resident florida sports agency now because he lived in florida and because he was a cuban exile he was kept on a loose arrangement whereby he would report to the agency from time to time

cubans who got out of too but you get legally or illegally but we thought might have some information to the united states government report in the name of this and that one was ceo it was awesome one is made by the fbi which was the year i imagine within twenty four hours or forty eight hours or seventy two hours after the break if you look at the cia community was the work of all i don't recall a precise details of the way it was done there are many people in the agency that it may be in your record most cooperative and turning over the right

well now libyans are the persons in the world the man was a camel i don't know imagine that at a minimum wage that was worth it

so when will the fbi tasked us with this mexican lawyer had any connection with the agency that conducted the investigation to ascertain whether or not we're really have no connection to the agency we knew nothing about it twenty seven you can reach the moon and said that the cia did not in the nest two thousand cases that question

when we were initially dismissed to be sure about that checked files and records ended up checking into mexico and this is not something new about one of the next but i don't recall in the first inquiry was made to us about a man and no there i disagree know from the records of the console of the record on this point but i did report this back to grade we had no connection with the agency had no connection with the choice of doing a review of documents here in my own handwriting at us to do this short order revelation

opposition's couple was among the watergate i can't vouch for those exact words but as i reconstructed this meeting john waters when overweight there was some sort of a lead in our reference at the beginning of the conversation of this report and it was and it was at the view of all of that's what it was thank you

tell you what i might've first that in that i saw him from time to time at the ring but say that at the time that i was director of the agency six years i recall that is added to my office on two or three occasions and what was his reputation before a similar provision human beings and that what do you say about this because you know him as a what was his reputation well as

us a good reputation with some questions questions effectiveness i think there's a tendency sometimes to get her takeaway was so moving that he was involved in that he had never done anything illegal nfl history but he was aware of the way of the agency director of these record player and i would just say here but his reputation for grabs it was romantic i just thought it was

ms benjamin stone what recommendations do you make of this committee concerning new legislation to help prevent the misuse of the central intelligence agency for political purposes human decency the year and washington over the years there have been many occasions when the various people have tried to manipulate some organization or another the proper way europeans with

respect to this episode there was no question that the scene be enough of users who use a gem from january twentieth nineteen sixty nine to nineteen sixty nine was basically from sixteen of season nine inauguration since nineteen seventy two i used to say mr mitchell quite frequently because mr

mitchell duties that i had nothing whatever to do with the conduct of the various department justice and so i saw him with some regularity meetings in his office on a variety of matters having to do this is that the agency and with other of those operations weather this morning with any contacts that you have with other advisors moreno mitchell were in us to bring the cia and to investigations of the investigation i don't recall any such meetings

i know that the time that i mentioned that i met mr martin was mitchell's offices my recollection the reason he was there once security operations division of the justice department various intelligence organizations in an effort to make up some reports domestic but it was always made very clear by me and i never was challenged by mr mitchell anything that we contributed to these meetings happen is the result of our work overseas states as for example over thirty in the terrace we've been working on them working on certain of people involved in drug smuggling in a variety of things

while you're welcome thank you you will discuss the committee's investigation at various times questions have come up in well i remember one time that the discussion with some of the president's foreign intelligence advisory board about domestic operations and so forth they didn't think they were going to

satisfaction and debate a civic contribution to this happen that it could not there was no way but this it was a matter that kept coming up in the context of feelers how can we do a better job as somebody else can take on some of these things they should either no other facilities but it was in that context it is not a direct pressure on me you are right don't mean to be a modest that i felt i understood about these matters because the limitations and i thought i could take care of the agency that opposed that was it you know in the eighties

if you director that might get into these other types of areas well i don't know that my thinking i want my farm because i have no reason to suppose to that my successor would be a man of the caliber but you feel that i've been around a long time and i thought i understood pretty well that goes to kind of the many scenes that on my shoulders off on anybody else a lot you say how it would do just that once you were an expression of the hill

i mean you know general warrant general question why wooden such a request as mr holmes might be made to you you were the director of the cia and the request and was being made was having to do with the acting director of the fbi so why not talk to you you will be talking around here like and so i don't know exactly what form this came up

and i was assured that they haven't decided on a warrant from the parks and obviously i wondered a lot used the city they're very common sixteen edition those are most important so i'm not the ones who are sitting right there together the farmers it was being made so clear that this was the way it was going to be done and that they wanted the germans to

like wyatt you're going to do yes news the president of the united states' voter id laboratory most of our current record because we have now

a subcommittee of the united states intelligence or charge of security does involve a system of clearances they would work together and classifying documents and madison this time when the league's would seem to be an authorized particularly of material within the intelligence channels the matter was referred to this use of security subcommittee see if any information to be ascertained just have one agency of government of the information on one individual and what agency of government had given this information out these investigations usually abortive efforts were made to the security officers of the other agencies to find out who might have done these things and eventually a successful conclusion we had no investigative staff of this we have no rights to investigate in the state department and our defense recently counted on their people to contribute to this effort and we have very

poor is also one of the reasons the burden on discharge inspection over the years is that they gave me responsibly which i have no devices were these discussions open only will the cabinet room or the president say that it was one of the discussions on for years january twentieth nineteen sixty nine there were discussions about the time of the one early in the administration no place in the oval office there were several cabinet members to sell were you we're going to

miss you it has a special responsibility the problem was the cia didn't know that twenty takes in existence while director and since then iran this is the eighties movie the stuff a responsibility on the national security act the cia on the white house to receive those things i was supposed to protect them a few days ago and again the

three early states were placed in the senate kept away from the show for a while would you consider that the problem is bigger we're going to see it thank you some assignment in connection with the operations leading up so all things that this is readily available in the agency gives original record of the actor

on june seventeenth well you see as indigenous well i can only say so extraordinary exception was done because i'm even as to what else has it ever been done before and you know not to my knowledge it has been done before or without you know this is always possible so they don't it's a larger organization i would hope not but i can say is no police no other

a cia prison and sent to you yes we did this on some other occasions songs i don't recall having a sense this was such an unusual request a lot of the cia go ahead in law as the agency how soundbite of interview the military action one question told you i was not pleased about because i didn't quite understand why it was that you couldn't require these things someplace

else <unk> soccer's to my injuries were routine or items of the apparatus of the white house have resources enough to get those things i would've thought i learned when i came back here and it votes of other things such as or something and i believe we can become almost legendary insult moderate but i don't recall a thing about i don't question about it what television told me as i recall it was one of the new digital christian conservative test these things from so peter thank you and at that time i think it's all it's the nominee had ever suggested the antibodies didn't do anything illegal such an unusual request

really known and a little more curiosity about what was going to be done well as the high level white house official asking for his help we tried to help women seemed to do anyone any harm i guess probably around some of you saying tuesday owners requested berkeley profile regrets about the impression that on monday morning a white again when the naacp there were of course these conversations with which you have described what was important to you intimate conversations with mr gray and then of course the conversations with mr dean

and he was pressing for things like they'll money and salaries for people might be impressive did it ever occur to anybody in the united states about this time and advise him of these very unusual going on most serve patient that all through these months the agency have a distance from this whole all and when i saw that i realized that the steelers were they may there was never a proposal made it was never said that when you do this it's also possible that something that could happen so and since we stood firm would seem to me that that was added to the circuit that the thing is you know in the fourth

dimension in this phone conversation that he was driving the ball cia anyway i didn't have that sensation so they grew the sensation i was i couldn't quite understand why it was really kept thinking see i was somehow involved or what what generated listeners aren't i don't know the state seems strange each of you always see me running into some cia involvement and i couldn't understand what he was talking about how we knew this because i can see i can find out and what motivated as i dont know and i honestly don't know if you know them one final question mr thompson well over this with you what i'm asking another question that of course is this business of whether

we're making their requests on the study at the request of the united states can hurt it but let me ask you this in all these transactions between you and the city wasn't his people the early reporting did you get any idea of all president nixon was involved in a cover up and wanting to use the cia in the cup for many of these discussions what conversations and what that he was such a senior official that consumer this was something that he had we wanted the

faculties all things career both as a member of the cia the money is directed more than six years now a distinguished ambassador to the united states really goes why is director of central intelligence agent i had a conversation with the president after the election november twentieth campaigning my future he indicated that he wanted to change i would

set that time i'm pushing sixty in about the ones that we had in the agency is to your regular retirement age is that your thing that are causing the agency officials got to be sixteen and they retired this therefore seemed a good time to do this i didn't know that my resignation the resignation to serve at the pleasure of the president for the time being as the commission says this was a major where i rather ancient he didn't have an impression that you've been pushed me that way when the president makes a suggestion you don't have to determine when you've been pushed further delay that big that

it if the white house can play those kinds of things representative of the cia were taken on his credentials with a director that agency in fact i want to somehow can see if anybody else in the agency no no no now what was your reaction and the president says to get his son to leave the white house investigation of the security mission are you surprised that we've been handled outside the fbi

i suppose that i was the damage that they have been so much talk about leaks and so much concerned about the images that i suppose that would have been or was surprised and somewhat dull it is fact they really weren't getting very far they knew now that i never dreamed that the us is going to lead to a kind of an activist role i thought this was going to material together and doing those things which for years have been battling government this is not the first person who's been concerned about leaks has been a kind of an endemic hanukkah concern in the white house ever since i can remember didn't say that whoever education an important guy to do that an innovation organization this or anything relating to the domestic activity the fbi and

on land they didn't insist upon and you insisted on an informative the answer you had pretty clear that they're going to have is to encroach all activities a lot and we didn't grow up with us you think this is now and they requested i mean it this is such a great question optus the psychological profiles which the agency had been doing on the foreign individuals or not based on psychiatric records their best and general

intelligence information learned from this information and from interviews and things of that kind also joe's put together an effort was made to draw a profile of this man and what kind of human being he was it was never interested in this religion that they have cited that material and then another work out the view just five the only involve cia and listen to operate wistful but that tape recorder and camera ms dion and that was done at a request you're welcome top five us specifically with my impression of this the hurricane ditzy general rich and asked him for these things haven't been

sponsored by the message on his family is i'm an assistant united states on the tv instead of the president of the united states on the counsel of the president or security adviser to the president's request information to the cia at its request from the president this is impressive and answer and the president's advantage in recent years the parents are these principal assistance because they can't get on the telephone all time themselves and one gets used to this question thank you and a moment senator baker will question ambassador helms about james mccord studios at cia over television coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after this fall for station identification

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senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent jim lehrer as they go back to the questioning the former director of the central intelligence agency richard helms a stones fan kate when did you first under no monster or spinal cord yes sir i don't recall exactly when i first met or you indicated that you had some twenty years if i indicated that i didn't think about that i simply making a statement to the effect that we were saying at that time when he came misunderstood i guess you're just

you i had seen him on this occasion he invited prime time which he was my office report times and you know the nature of his assignment responsibilities within the agency did tell us what are those very obvious and they are largely to do with the physical security of our plants the things that time there was one time when he had an assignment but dealing with the fact that he was the man who is taking care of this defector and doing some interrogations record generally regarded as a good employer employee of the agency us or part of his responsibilities to search or a monitor the possibility of the installation now wiretap apartment in us installations by

others counter surveillance the artist and scientist at the ucsf thing as it do you know whether or not a part of his functions work to monitor the current state of the art electronic surveillance equipment and to make recommendations on its usefulness to the agency i don't remember that question you know in general whether or not that report was perfection and knowledgeable the general field of electronic circuit i think he must've been despite clear that those files of the democratic national committee didn't know anything about the actors going into buildings and getting out without getting caught you know i'm

is it fair to say and i don't mean to put words your mouth that you're implying at least are maybe saying that the mccourt operation was not in keeping with modern adaptation standards of electronic surveillance as you know an intrusion do you square that with the idea that recording then the agency for twenty years and that he was regarded as effective and will listener baker i don't know whether these are copper discusses for about like when something up to the breaking and entering and not getting caught is a very difficult activity and for it to be done properly one has to have trained individuals who do nothing else and there were huge villainous thing and

obviously not the petition now it's an inevitable change not perfect i was not dysfunction in the agency's i ever recall opposed to do this kind of that win that best record leave employers here and itunes at his request for later testimony is that he wanted the agency or fifteen years i don't remember exactly but it might hurt significantly i didn't know is how well i do in relatively well because he and i have over many years working st intersections that was his

responsibility as replied it's a girl you have a variety of assignments and i would plead with you to simply asked the agency to give you the important records because i don't recall commission the operations and you describe for us what sort of activity and in the bay of pigs operation and they get to do in certain aspects of the propaganda in connection with the propaganda against the cuban government has this was a cia operation most women in the early sixties with mr amir with electronic surveillance of surreptitious and three believe it was on the payroll in some capacity with the cia was he an employee or a counter you're probably going to give us that employees will recall and i continued through shortly after june

seventeenth nineteen seventy two no idea he retired and then i went to work here in washington for somebody else and you return some time in nineteen seventy i was sixty two or sixty five years jail disability those who retire because he was anxious to have and action yeah right susan connections accident i believe he was looking for an opportunity to make more money get the job mr lahey a lot of the cia and a connection with the world about having any connection when i found very dangerous to watch myself i was never aware of a connection and whenever inquiry whether it any relationship to the cia

i missed it i'm not really trying to establish so what's that event or did not have a relationship as i am trying to establish one thousand am there are someone connected with the investigation the watergate subsequent seventy i was never aware of it in particular about this is not somewhere in the news of my recollection could we can stop the actual record seems to me that this is what was that one time before she married him or something i'm not sure of the speculation effectiveness is not was very closely involved cia and possibly disappear her husband astronaut you get

millions who are they wasn't important some amazon and watching recent years that may be mutually exclusive well it is that there is just amazes me on about <unk> testify that he had some relationship to cia but that was a contractual relationship and i believe it was in the early sixties during the time of the great deal of activity in fargo were cuban operations i believe he was terminated in the middle sixties and i don't mean in the year relationship with you know most part not

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