1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-24; Part 4 of 5

as it as mr young secretary was to be interviewed by the fbi and the da's office contacted her to make sure that she knew about the standing instructions the special units activities or not you tease you expo huge in that one conversation was rooted in the ones are bad until you got into the conversation on june twenty seven you say obama also sector so that you know it didn't really receive a specific instructions to keep their special investigations unit activism manageable wow i mean i

did receive specific instructions but they really didn't want to buy and they are very specific you are six you insured i think you have misunderstood we had a we had a meeting with mr halverson was the wars

that a journalist there were eighty series of conversations then as a result of that meeting between john awards and has the very conclusion of those conversations came around the sixth or seventh of july the president then top with mr gray and his instructions to mr gray were in view of the cia to conclude that there was no danger of such exposure the law but an fbi investigation and then they backed out up with instructions to me that i was to pass along to mr gray and mr gray was to the time the scope of the investigation so that by the sixty seven until i am i can only thing that played down for you in just a second here but the the well i think it was

you saw quite a reverence and it was thursday a six day the president had determined the men are in conversation with mr gray there was no cia humor involvement or potent offer of legal exposure and the president's inspections mr ray wert yes sir i believe that usa it recently reviewed to ensure that i'm sorry it's the day by this debate i understood from our conversation what his concerns were he gave me a very full explanation of why he had asked that we meet with mr helms and so water is back on in the first week and use him for he obviously had a separate source of information that he was acting on that at that time do you think that there might be

or there might be cia operations which somehow or other to be compromised by an unlimited fbi investigation at the purpose of that that to me with wars and an accounting was just it was to find out if there was anything like that it's impossible and the upshot of a meeting was yes maybe there was something like that in possibility and so what once wasn't going through the years i didn't receive any instructions i received an explanation yes sir well i get through mr holland in having us in the

sense of having this mean joyless was a presence at down say no as it as he can incidentally in the case of sitting me down and saying i consider this i don't want to hear now i really get it a lot we compensate the march nineteen seventy three because as a response to this march twentieth blackmail attempt by the president renewed is strong feeling that this whole special unit activity was impressed with a national security characteristic of the highest order

and he had me review is in fact that at that period for several weeks i was discussing this june twenty thirteen meeting with you have you explain your presence of suggested that the president wanted to get a tan and that was it how the president's request that it was because of the president's concern as i've mentioned that cia activities either were involved in the watergate one or two some totally unrelated cia activity might be exposed by the investigation war an act that he wrote

just tell me now the whole or the president or you know to believe the cia activities the cia had at the same age i became certified later i did note that i became certified later this july six me that the president have a source of information and which he was real eye and that was apart from anything that he described a may i never did no one source of information ones but it was it was evident to me from the conviction with which he discussed this at that his concern was based on some sort of information which he considered <unk> now i want to say that line to me but the president felt that he must support a full complete timeline of the fbi investigation of the of the watergate

that this had become more of a serious political issue and the only terrible political position for him to be was it turned fbi lose sons and let them under any kind of an investigation that they could or for now this problem and explain the implications of that what were options if the cia were involved in the watergate and obviously that would be embarrassing awkward and difficult for the cia than a walrus assured us that that was not the case and the throne and say if there were any other i see ai activity or operation following disassociated from or what eight an investigation of money for people it being well known that some of these people who've been apprehended had been on retainer with the cia and so forth if any of these circumstances lead to a

disclosure of cia operations disassociated from the watergate it was there in the week did not get the same kind of flood insurance that we had gotten in the first instance and so rather than for us to prolong that pervades in places the night it was simply believe that general was one make at an earlier appointment with that gray and sit down and talk with him about what the problems might be and that's what was not the outcome of those talks i guess the record for it generally agree that there was no problem and ray then talk with the president on the phone when the president was in san clemente i believe on the set and then the president very shortly after that told me about the show what his instructions degraded them and then he explained to

me what his concerns were about this rather narrowly in the terms that i just find you well he said that in the end the inception of the beginning that had been involved and in his concern because of the fact that some of these people who have been arrested have had cia connections in the facts and information that have come to have persuaded him that there was at least able to talk about i mean are going on the answer to that is what we know that my recollection is that the mexican investigation was one of the things that was discussed

and it has to wait mr helms and general risk would not give us a capital firms that fbi investigation wouldn't create jobs so that was simply noticed as one of the kinds of problems that might arise in which dollars and the director of the fbi ought to compare notes fifteen years and in that sense at that point what we're were out of the us that we just wanted to crystallize this wanted to get together with the fbi they'd white house contact numbers with the john dean who is the fellow following this entire matter so in effect we turn general warren and the struggle or the dean for any future products that they might have

and i'm renee montagne i read that the newspaper and it really surprised me when i arrive and so i wonder the origin of this until i read mysteries festival which was that he had been asked by meds mr mitchell davis i had in effect set this up without knowing it by telling walters that dean was his white house contact from that day forward but i did not know about these conversations do you know about that was her european jew listeners well i didn't

realize that i had canceled my strong concern about that meeting was that it was going to include some staff members from the fbi and as i say we were expressing the sleep problems and right at that particular time one of the people who would have been included in that meeting was under very strong suspicion as being the source of that leak we had an independent information which we were talking with the findings about that specific individual and it appeared that this whole thing was going to include here and so that was the that was the reason for marco rubio yet you asked him i think because we were right well because this day

at that time was not acknowledging about what's known about the leaks and the specific man in the specific meaning that until this fall but the findings that i discussed in several occasions how we might go about determining the source of the leak the proposed the idea of planning a story or a set of circumstances and seeing if it turned up in and there's none of that so we were we were dealing with the attorney general director i don't believe so yeah that was the that was suggested in the inception i don't accept that not

having staff meetings on this particular subject and i can tell you precisely what i tell them will serve warm cushman not been asked many times about that cell phone call and i simply have no recollection of having made that you know i knew from my one meeting with mr golson and mr lee what he was supposed to be doing that or he was supposed to be engaged in an analysis of the pentagon papers and anne in determining their accuracy whether or not they were in fact complete accounts of the events which took place or whether they were edited tailored accounts which did not

conclude that the complete fact ingenue talking to waters about the possible on cloud atlas you know that family and it was emotional receptivity no it wasn't much broader concern and it includes a set the question directly involved it included whatever exposure there might be for any cia activities i think in the mexican money or the florida bank account or whatever which involve one of these people and a former cia planet

was raised as an example in the meeting by once as the kind of thing that the president is concerned that it was discussed as a specific example and the meeting was by no means limited to their eggs right because the partly because of that specifically mention the page to follow him suggesting the meeting in any mention the family again in july as that the kind of thing that apparently cia might be embarrassed about the idea some of the people who were involved in the watergate apparently had been involved in the bay of pigs and a question of whether there was any cia exposure still exist one of the mission's well it is

a problem or compromise on socialism something very specific but it was never mentioned no i can't mexican mexican money or mexican laundry or whatever your barber yes and bach record with the cia that went back through was not realized we're not mentioned in this bill the president has specifically

told you're not true song that you vote short time and wait again and show that the investigation or activism for a while so that was what led to the cia because of this meeting we just did frankly the the question of the special unit simply never entered my mind at that time as a as a little girl it just was not in competition and it was not an accomplishment you know lady have one square in iraq well it works in my office in a in a very remote sensing an interview to do he

was trying to disseminate all concerned to bargain with the detail that would be embarrassing or politically about compromising national security areas jobs and it just it was not intentional are you oh yeah my pleasure where it starts at you know

about his meeting with mr go back in july of nineteen seventy one is what you charge that up and generate the steam behind the concern about a special unit to my knowledge was not evan until the fbi interviews of individuals began end sometime and lamb mr bean sauce counsel people who have been connected with especially in like lester young secretary and others to be very cautious so by opening up that said now that was a very broad so it ranged from from the pentagon papers through solving these other these other investigations lot that was when this cautionary note was introduced if the president cast that instruction as i say he didn't pass it to me directly with the past but the misdemeanors and one oh no

i would think a march of this year like it or not the decision it is no reason they've all well happening is information it be concerned about this except three d o o

m business on the senate floor is once again interrupted the interrogation will pick it up again in a moment of the televisions coverage of the senate hearings will continue after a pause for a station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs a public broadcasting service it it's

been from washington and ride

continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent robert macneil as they go back to the old senate caucus room an arctic council fred thompson is questioning john ehrlichman the power to pass laws because it's been last question well you have to get ugly because you really became concerned about exposure of the march of that year and i was inquiring about what appears to be to have been the

president's concern much earlier well well of course the president has many many channels of information in and he gives instructions to a number of people beside me and a whole range of subjects so i would want to get the impression that he depended on me as a sole source of information or social or his instructions be the one i became very active and even is going to field the council of people who have in some way been associated with the they were interviewed by the fbi that this was a

subject that was impressed by the president with a very high security constant change and that would have been the fbi really was was conducting interviews in the white house early in the month of june and again on in july think they finish for all practical purposes there intensive investigation in the white house during the month of the law what would you not the only expresses concern was getting information from sensitive to the poor supervision of his group we're not express his concern to hear with what he did in that i can't recall ever get jobs only get state of the early all you felt like you had spending instructions that the national security

letters with one box no the people in the senate have a very clear recollection that you have with the president around the first of nineteen seventy two in which he made that very very clear yeah i think the thing i had security investigations are you this was a real delicacy terms of national security and that remain if there were any signs that would not be talk about three d or aura that find their way into

the public domain that this is one of those sets of such things it would not and then i didn't have any any conscious concern that anybody involved in a continuity including would have told us when we when you become aware of that money will be raised to pay i'm not sure that i knew who money was being raised for in any specific sanctions that are hot yes i was there was a need for a defense attorney's fees fund it must've been laid into and it came to me through muscatine who said that the defendants were losing their attorneys attorneys were one thing they were not being paid john mitchell felt very strongly that it

was important to have good legal representation for these defendants are a number of reasons for political reasons but it but also because we have these civil damage suits that had been filed by the democrats against the major religion and women well just that if there were to be a trial and agreed to take place before the election that obviously that power would have some political impact and good representation was was simply so a little money they were trying to retain at least that was my mind specifically for money i don't think it can work until

sometime after the first of the year and then i came to it not so much and the money spent related to this episode trying to make contact with mr golson to satisfy himself that colson was still standing by a minute there he was there was prime minister it wasn't until we got into about twenty of the march that i became aware that what was in fact making strong money remains innovators versions of anyone leave anyone else was in fact a credible little less is money no i don't believe so no distinction a new man there's two

and though it was in one very clear that only have sufficient like them happy and for humans now and it wasn't obviously to make that happen was it was for the purpose they monitor how well i do i conceive of this as being like that you know like daniel ellsberg defense fund the knee angela davis defense fund and an the berrigan brothers defense fund said it's a family creative people now a matter fact they didn't tell me that there was a public defense fund being created in florida right around this time that are common this was a scientist at one that had been generated within the cuban community

it was amazing well not quite in those terms but i had a conversation with mr camargo about the fact that he was raising money for the various things on the conversation one kurd on the fourteenth of july out in his office in newport beach that's a friday afternoon i wait and he showed me his offices we talk about the california political situation

which he was then very concerned about which he had a number of ideas and he mentioned to me in the course of that get together that he was now raising money he said rather philosophically because we had had a conversation that sometime in your earmarks in which wealthier this way he had hoped to get out of the money raising this is the first of april and we we had a lot of money in the end it was i would be his defense what morris dance and john mitchell i asked him to get back into the fundraising at the soviet union at that activity and even added a couple of times in the presidential campaigns and he really wanted to do other kinds of things we know and so we agreed that when he was

approached by mr stanton mr mitchell that he would say and we would back him up that he was going to do political chores for the white house on the site now we knew he was philosophical about it in the sense that it was sort of well at that you there has been raising money this sensitivity look into your early teens when you know my family was that something you said yesterday i'm sure if we had looked into my eyes and i looked into his eyes and we have invoked the names of our lives that i would remember that solemn occasion i know i'm sorry to say i don't remember i know in my life asked her come up to do anything that i thought was shady or

improper certainly not illegal and if obama ever said and they do you love for the propriety or the legality of what i'm doing i would have been very very slow to make any assurance to her without a lot of reasons to satisfy myself and that's why i'm pretty sure that that kind of request was not made of me and i did not make a response because i never knew that occasion to a researcher to find out about i see if we can get her mom barb lined up to race some attorneys fees for john mccain who says we really got there for the reasons that i said if he checks with you back me up on the us now it happen that he didn't technically forbidden call may end and we didn't talk about it until he was well into the project as i say it was

as i recall forty the july when we first discussed it and the balance of the conversation at present as i say rather resign and leave and he was back in the us that he was using tony alessi let's get carry cash and i got the impression that he was carrying cash from california too yeast and i may be mistaken about that but i really did that to beans very brief conversation with me before about this there was no solicitation of of him to me is this ok for me to be re a letter at that time now he was in my office again it back here would probably later in his words on the twenty six mile long shows i don't know he made him a periodic visits and he would come in and he'd have a whole list of things that you want to talk about and we would go down his list and it may be that this this business was not that like i'm just

and there was no such requested for national security reasons not uncommon for only an investigation wanting an all these elements involves a matter of course the financial markets

but previous active farmers work the german legal precedent they give you the introduction which uses heated them would not leave matters more sort of course in which you have everything as doubts without getting into all these specific statements the truth let's look at what i did when the president gave me the instruction back in the first in nineteen seventy two with regard to holding the financial activities and especially in what i did do was to contact people who were young and say this is the president's decision says his determination he does not want to talk about it is confidential it is secret it is not to be discussed

but the point is i did around trying to bite anybody around trying to spread not a matter of fact we preserve that not for historical purposes because this was that this was an important interlude i felt and that in the history of this country we've never had such a wholesale radon the nation's defense secrets as we had in the six month period the problem of exposure of activities was in africa one called river of the watergate and pursue an investigation as far as i know and this is made in that i particularly speaking out of the white house the only thing that was not if in fact these instructions were given to say that were not given to me the only thing that i know that was done was the various people this was a top secret they're giving

interviews of the year i can think of that question is that their last man who are it's been i don't know what their motives were well those will

appear in the media in the course of the procedures are and i stated that that was my understanding of the cardinal thus far i'm not sure that we know who the donors or i have to say that there are many people in this country who contributed to those fans who would want to know also think the while i assume that well you make it we'll let lieberman also those are like

if the only reason that anybody ever came in at about just raising money was because of this arrangement that we had entered into that we would protect <unk> wish to be protect file requests to raise money now that is a it was a chaotic situation where obviously he didn't wish to be protected he made the judgment you made it independently and when i presented there are not obviously the nightingale talking about that not until after the fact while you're welcome ms janet testimony is that that meeting twenty six the july when he was along into this and this is justified oh well

you know i would be terribly slow to reassure her grandmother whom i consider a good and close friends of the propriety of any such undertaking of any such undertaking without checking at first if he had asked me and i just buy new germ that he did not ask what do you call that we made about the head and well i i suspect that what was said there was that certainly mr tom watson welcome i mean no explanation

well i had a conversation with most prominent german and i have no doubt then we visit he says that we discussed the question of secrecy because i do recall is saying that mr ely so it was carrying money back in full now i have in my mind at that time the realization that this is what i consider to be a legitimate undertaking could be terribly misconstrued if someone were to include the efforts of the president's lawyer to this defense fund for watergate burglars there's room for misunderstanding i think you have stated the misunderstanding very eloquently annual midwest mainland

we're never been wanting in a song yolo and now though all that he was wasn't it while chairman is you know i had nothing to do with those details of all as a matter of fact i was quite surprised to learn in the testimony here that there was a lot of money laundering process where the many money or money held by people in the committee were passed through several hands around them has to come out for mental delivery of this are of course all three day and a conversation as to come up and it was always about the political and you know maybe and it will be like oh well

all options and so you might make a plan no i don't agree with that because i don't know i don't know i know i believe he was in washington with his attorneys at the time and they knew you know so this is you and i i do

and i'm renee montagne the decision to use the dictators now that's the kind of thing that you hear that remark no i think the result is about the same as many new secretary listen in on the other line and take advantage for you will record yourself on the fly sir well i take exception of voting because i think that's an unfair

characterization that you like you think of the average now reporting that is you know when you're not o n and it was that don had given me the war and john is this i have to take low you said yes it is and move all the end of all that is your job thank you i know

i don't know what year it was transferred from what sort of that was what i would like to compare what you have you know money it received from the us china and also i think in the us group yeah yes i think that was in response to the statement that i made at the bob needs to sour and when i make clear that mr dean came in they as i testified year and asked me to a poor man without giving any specific thank

you he's an american giving at work job you know i think through but my question is also important because it is the statement that you just read is a response something that has a little bit more curious well i disagree with him as german i suppose what happened is take the whole

context of what was to come up said in order to understand the real world the context is that i had to say to him at the bottom of page to that john being intimate and said this was an urgent matter and that he gave me no specifics but this was something that michel and told them was important and i said the johnny well you tell me it's that important and then he goes on and i understand you just really want to know me and it was very vivid a dramatic moment when we look deep into each other's eyes and i said why where the solemn

assurances that this was both legal and proper and i made notes as solemn assurances matter of fact in what you read to hear the word period stands that gravity because period means that was the end of the conversation there is nothing in either it meant that you know i came in there is this service on that i have to take all you'll say oh right you know i'd read that you have to read that in the context of the previous comment i just referred to live out that the urgency of this matter was not anything i know my own knowledge of what mr bing told me on the basis of their conversation with you well obviously this is not

my body it was very much a situation where i undertook this and you'll recall he undertook of psalms six weeks before we have this conversation this is your twitter page according to his testimony i mean we disagree because of assurances i gave him about the idea of value which i assure you that not happen in which this conversation i think indicates that none of them thank you what a

sad thing as germany in addition to the words your was in the jail and i was referred to at the bottom of page two that you probably don't feel is in this context and that's a mistake and you know that this was that oh but i did it in terms of the context which the bottom up at mr chairman i say mr dean came to me and gave me that assurance and i make no independent inquiry and he was doing so because of the urgency state about mr michel and it has to be taken is a german artist you are and i think it is at the end of march of this year yasser arafat

had reporters that even with congress in nineteen sixty eight made recognition of that in here yes we do i'm stephanie o'neill oh assert also has to do with a congress recognition of what the constitution provides relation to the barbers i think maybe you're right years

why don't we read oh yeah i don't know do anything that's good now millions of

pink eye what that then you remain this end of that sentence with jazz or do protect national security information intelligence officials fb