1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-30; Part 3 of 6

it's big eleven testified that it was just the dean's testimony on already mr starr over the anchor hugh herr instructed and these things are dropping briefcase in order that he went to see in this building and reported that feeling that that was a huge concern about people and actually announce that as givens that position what was appealing a question concerning the conversation inevitably it was i would say was one

of the ones that i'm afraid i can't really important much more than that and the conversations that we have john indicated that there's a lot of concern about this material i would've said this is not a quote that it would be unfortunate itself of some of the stuff now or is revealed to the press on the same token you know even though i was related to the fighting in the context of that conversation most of the night this was in the context of the conversation i was in the building now i know that feeling

mr betts says it's perfectly selling to suggest that i would go to the elaborate lengths that i did in making sure that the secret service and try and the tsa and somebody from bean sauce was present at the opening of a say and then i would give instructions for taking custody of the conflict and then make a suggestion why i think you have to give me credit for understanding the importance of evidence in a case of this kind and i didn't understand that and on the nineteen named arthur that that evidence was preserved in a way that if there were subsequent trial evidence that the event of fire and and placed in either the tv show that it would be inadvisable wanted to us why didn't you ask mr colson mr carlisle mr clawson who were also at the meeting who it was that was that was a process but

with the integrity of that evidence would be preserved and then perhaps you get some in panama ms dickinson and you've got to do a transcript of the boston which you to return of the violence needed to us the debate on this they don't mind what they do have a full seventeen or seventeen doesn't your articles on now some reason they exercise they get from your top you know i mean i

believe that short forward for our no this is the question and this is an interesting music the web site's in mind that meeting as evidence are looking for or what their life and his music i don't know

isn't it now gone or even are alike good message out anything like that either one of those things that that would be given to my recollection they didn't live update in my mind today the other difference i would think so i would think so but also and that's one that involve eight see

what he's doing is right that's a very dramatic event i didn't do anything now why was nineteen ninety nine why were you at the nsa on and you know the target well this was the this was the version which was reported that the pope as having

taken place at this meeting i'm fifteen sixteen by mr peterson who in turn was reporting robin was alleging that the us attorneys the president confronted militants and as well as it's supposed to happen and he said well what they tell me is that it happened at this at this meeting were you almost just can't miss say that all us persons so that's why i focused on that meeting as the as the time of the alleged this was supposed to happen but that's the best information i had at the time but that's not really when the planning you're telling me that the business online versions of the story is that i don't think you can assume that anyone would be more reasonable many other i appreciate your your situation the city must have been in on the committee but i think you have to recognize that there are many many versions of this story that it before the un prosecutor and all in the interest of them in the midst of

the fight that whatever it is that the evidence that was open and then i'm here and therefore they have no except that version that this time out the thing that isis said the midst of this was you get mr clawson i'm asking what was that head the contents of this say about with so what lessons and with a procedure to guarantee the integrity of the evidence in that statement i think about it that i was the one who insisted upon that procedure comedian and it i got into medicine your conversation

of april seventeen conversation the conversation and i don't know mr nationalists were interested in your assertions the assertions not in search of reading now you say the subject of one thing a lot of seller's cellar or something coming out this morning even thought i noticed something coming it's morning edition

with his family i know yeah it is we do

i do now i really am thank you mr johnson yeah i know these people right right

nina well i know you want to figure out oh i was it was a lot of like follow a candidate yet another but that was it do

you know why you're here irony irony he'll spend just a mob chairman of mine mine actually before electric here but this is kelly audience and although president is entirely serious about maintaining decorum and this character it is inappropriate for the audience to respond in any way to the statements made by the wetness by counsel or anything else on the express explicit instructions the chairman was in the audience that may well not prevent demonstrations i'm

robert siegel and we used the meeting with last year mississippi division of the ruble also concerning again and i was in his office and want that law we're calling it well i'm satisfied mr golson was president i have an onslaught system that lost people in and out of my door and i'm in actuality basis of speech long time so it would be for

summer but i think it may be a practical certainty that he was there in fact i was much more interested in whether or not he had any recollection of such a conversation and i think they're two important things in a conversation that you kind of scapegoat one was the fact that this could be tried this story of the polls which goes to my answer to senator bernie the other day that at a point in time around it's second third week in a poem of being was very busily engaged in planning stories here and there as he accepted the plant this story with me that that i supposedly ordered him to have a cup second thing is on the matter of immunity i had been consistently taking their positions since the twenty second a market that no one in the white house should see community in in any thoughts or and it was extremely inimical to the interests of the president and the white house for someone in the

white house staff to in anyway seek to be excused for his actions under any circumstances and my efforts and i share that i should have said this in response to senator burns question few minutes ago with respect to what we were talking about her at day's april fifteen to thirty one of the things that we were talking about was also that might be involved in any one in the white house seeking to be immunized from the consequences of his act as an inducement to test and i felt strongly than they like continuing to feel strongly that that was going on one of the questions on the new is it true that you somehow or even an ex presidents and you know the legal community prior to april court well i

recall we got quieter calling mr klein least on about twenty eight march an inquiring about procedures in securing emily and then at some point in time i conveyed to him the president's well no one in the white house should be extended i can certainly not the president's position but you personally suggests that as opposed to appoint a new question because i was strongly stating that point you could possibly through this very tough and did you because of that and the revelation of the president's statement was seventeen and which nobody white house that will be fine it would be great

and it's the first time in european integration now i know you i think your testimony i'm leaving the areas at that i did you when you made those activities as gossip with them as patients imagine the great

hall you're right activities involving the lyric out on the first was that it was reported some of you mr mitchell up on this special investigation brett lacey we get in that and a promise not just for seats in that question i discuss the so called commerce activities and mr libby with mr mitchell would be quite different than the first time i heard of or discuss these other thing is well i had a notch or the question is at what i wanna testify to an answer to the question was that

the existence of a special unit and its functions upsets the president conceded and charter which he did grove and twenty fourth of july was discussed with several agency heads and cavanaugh says almost immediately thereafter i don't think i was asked the question ellsberg regime as such mr mack i don't recall ever doing so well the question that the missiles that money not the event of the plumbers none of these operations involving cable and the other chains and these are the first line of that political whitehouse far on june twenty four hour all the next day on june twenty second you met with mr mcgregor of the socialist image of mime and then he had a second meeting with mr michel laberge we finally when asked about that meeting or if i

was a phone call and julie and the question of what it was because of that meeting mr mcbride what he made in a new report about a possible white house was about to need a little protective actually i mean i can recall specific at reason that mr mitchell palmer i call him a get together now i'm forty five and i can say this now with with reassurances i never knew that we know that there was just five can hear gordon liddy had had some are in the lead and i just never heard that from anyone nor had i heard about this this cable until it was either or discussed in the press as a lead for mirrors

that corals in the end the testimony here wanna be a contemporaneous with all of that aside i was not aware of either of those events no sir and even back to the table and services well parks database east to work for mr programmer me and especially in and around the point of september and i don't know the dates of those events that my hunch is that they were later and then i would just respected and i i don't know well i can tell you that my own now will be ripple land when you were

counting on the nineteen fifties a time when we now know did not affect them and it but i don't think we did six i think there was a lot of confusion and i think it's going to go back in and checks right now despite your time mr and yet so many things to do the central and your focus you do seem to have been busy on what it matters since on the next day in quite useful in the war on a level that testimony the car with me with the civil wars and the question of whether the cia involvement what was that like the back of a preamble to

request because any answer that i might get my teen to adopt its assumptions there isn't any dispute indians that in the twelve days before i left watson went to california and i had a number of meetings with regard to watergate with mr dean and on this occasion with with intention of the country but if you look at my long and you look at the other letters you'll see that once the twenty sixth of june came and i left that they say that twenty nine game and i like that that might frequency so they dropped all actively desert so i would walk to be the little league into question given by the false impression that you know also and the reason that i was having

now once we once we get to this town's water again i think you know the that meeting was convened by the players because there is concern here about the jeopardy of the cia's integrity seated secrecy of its operations and he wanted to be absolutely sure that there's all out fbi investigation to go forward without jeopardizing massacres oh oh with the fbi well i get a chance to ask you about that cia letter of life

sex and why it was that it was not then for another six days until a cia gave birth to the fbi that there was no cia expose all you know the reason for that is their testimony but based on your direction on the patio and using the israelis is just one euro and that's going to be online maybe energy and resources but we're not sure and he was

right here we are what is this device mr pollack nice just the time senator baker spoke i was in the process of pointing out the counsel that you have to eat every subject here one is direct cia involvement right and the other is possible and rowing cia activities which might be disclosed by a vigorous fbi investigation now i think

it would be very funny director hal mcrae discuss the previous day what was we discussed at this meeting at how things now about this meeting and what it was that there was no talk about race tomorrow thank you we're into hip hop it is a need well today's break for food business owners and council which

is the glue or tempers of their public television coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after a pause for a station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs a public broadcasting service fb the the

pope and

that continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer as the hearing more questions about john ehrlichman contact the pope has been who has been if businesses by you you

said that the meeting was going to be talking today and that we had indicated to general dollars that mr dean would be contacts from that point four and the general they call you whenever you speak to fifteen he either happen that way or i told him at the time and the meeting on the twenty thirteen with his contact one of the other right eye and whites sure that i indicated our waters the deal with the white house a man who was looking after their skills and were you aware of the fact that the general or on june june twenty sixteen

now i understand that we're in it i was not aware of that series of meetings until this recent reports you know in the now on july eight you recall at that meeting not specific way i surmise that one of them was simply an informational meeting knowing that i was about to leave town for an extended period of time as i recall there was a conversation and whether it was by meeting for or what it was like oh i can't recall but on the same day that we met with that day and later we had a conversation about turning over the contents of unsafe just bury

it than you do i'm fine i don't know you know i know just a final question you're right yes

and your answer was that was in april of this year president rep cleaver they go about empathy yeah i was in the president's deal b o and you know why do you ask so i called that time of the liver of the fifth grade in the subject of this conversation between the attorney general and the president and that mr dean told about that may be deliberate mr gray said whoa whoa whoa whoa and he said well if he says that i will

deny it obviously i've destroyed and here very clear that if you tell the truth about that now isn't it true that that was not the next time that you had a conversation with it you

again you your iran i think you're referring to they be a rather old white reference and mr grace fall reportedly bought his confirmation hearing perhaps that's why we discussed it and i'm in a much less specific way in terms of what he was testifying to in the confirmation hearings about whether he delivered all that the documents that the fbi the conversation on to the people that you have what in the conversations i just read

it and i'm not given an inch and you know those areas and i think you know john was the simple right now and be very careful about what he says that's the absolute loser are you know the law that he delivered everything he had been at the er and don't make any distinction between what that he delivered everything in the eye and to say right absolutely you know all right you know i'm doing

just that so before i made any statement that was made you do not doing well mr grey you did when you were going back to that just happened that day i was there and i saw there was an interview why why why well the big conversation with great as i read a few days ago was racing teammate i'm saying that the fbi can't always done which is which is true but i'm not making any nice distinction about the fact that we came in in two parts now i

suppose that from a mindset standpoint there was there that he had some other problem with it is that and i didn't i didn't pick up and i didn't understand what he was concerned about so i talk about what that was all about was simply mr gray saying and it certainly was to volunteer anything that in any way would disrupt that testimony with the interval are rejected the fact that in fact that the media two parcels incentive in one part and then you really think about identified because you've called this begin shortly afterwards and maybe fall according to the transcript and the conversation as is follow the news today you know i just haven't the widget are

correct they've all really and he says that makes your the old on the big these days very very very honest story and delivered every document the fbi it doesn't start making nice things in between at and let the you know the little wary of a job was just doesn't want there to be any question he says he's hanging very firm and there's a lot of problems now what ray oh that you were to be the busy something personally as he was trying to emulate or later in a discussion when you're going to the president's office you think almost every individual must be i knew that cell to carry that message was to being the family minister gray once mr david you're just

anti i make no distinction between fbi agents and directors that all went to the fbi and therefore were you in fact or dissipating and to cover not that situation in which it was given that record which later would destroy that so as far as i was concerned there was that it was perfectly happily knowing about delivering these documents to the fbi and any concern that lead that you know the field officer the lower echelons of the fbi were leaking this stuff all that would mention the director was it was a perfectly appropriate that i don't know where the cover up and that i don't apologize for it or why i was invited to participate in the call from the president's office was a quite another night and this was this was a very suggestive minnie i never got up and all i had ever done it i just when the decision is really saying something terrible

is saying let's not make that distinction and let's make it clear that when the fbi so that no one ever think about how i don't think you can read a lot of us didn't see anything there dorothy but because i have welcomed if he had testified he came into puzzles and i have one i have one has nothing to do with watergate that i'm holding is one person that they will zero in on that as a serbian another aspect of this thing at that open it up and get politically embarrassing documents and exploited us well i hope so and that was the whole idea of delivering it in two parts and so you're going out and

cover up up with delivering to mr gray separate sense of the political legwork there was no no intent here do it anyway while is invitation only i've been with him in the story that you never get the documents in the first place against a background of this having destroyed and after a hug before i don't well i got to just make this is clearest possible and i'm not really is and whether that in oregon there's the gray had no i did not it did not come in so far as i know that was discovered in this phone

conversations great first time i heard testimony here to the effect that i knew back in january or some time that these documents have been distraught and others that is totally incorrect and had i known anything about the destruction of american snack at that time i dare say that my recommendation to various degrees nomination there's no question and if you did in fact carried out at the request of the messaging that were such a way that they shouldn't make a distinction between fbi agents and directors and justices have indicated to keep from being asked what lee gurley now on july twenty fifth you get the well you have made and by that time by the

time already ok i take it now mr deane come to you and say that he wanted to do well and one answer this question in any way that might seem to a doubling the preamble to just live i have i testified a couple of times about the conversation and actually have witnessed the end this connection very simply a fireball was a phone caller made out of one of these information meetings he said i wish you'd back me up john mitchell feels very strongly defense fund raising now that allow it allowed to come back at least the comeback and then allow anybody to do anything

that was enough to make to commission anybody to do anything and those are un toll that's one comeback by that i never used to chant their interview that you wrestled a lot going to come back and i think that testimony is that in order to protect us to come back from being imposed upon that you would so to get it done is original art and they can come and do other thoughts on racing without getting any approval to you mr fisher so many things wrong what what actually happened is a big investment couple times is that when the april seventh campaign financing law doesn't was coming into effect the comet let us know or let me know that that he didn't want to do any more farmers in the campaign were stands was pressing in bar to help him very tough job or

wanting to be relieved that that anyone would be some other kinds of shorts and again by more interesting and so we agreed that if either instrumental or four by then i think it was a seamless was instrumental still in an amnesty stands approached her with her good news the volunteers excuse he was working for us and we were backing them with their estimate my question was that i said that you know i think that when no way of questioning your questions to date with thanks a lot now you know on how much money we women would be a law no you

know if you think you know direct no no no you know we're speaking now i'm in my conversation that they would have if you were you know at the time or were among the ioc until i'm an observer since i think the public record well i tried to i can't really get into it again did you have a special purpose two fifth and the thought of having perverse jour scott we are here saying they're involved in honor of activity and they are now being involved

here were you concerned that unless they were filthy they might well now as i recall may be a context in which this was discussed was primarily a cuban emigre stimulated defense fund which john been told about that was being created in florida and will be the vehicle for that so and so if anything my focus would have been on those criticisms innocent that particular conversation and one of my money so there's no question this at all it was something that that was just left over less than human thank you as a time of his mind would be on the city that it just was not a question that i've asked myself and one where the other you are really weird it was that kind of thing

the pieces but no right now you get the one point six nine others at the meeting mr with combat have testified here and he testified that because of a clandestine manner in which he was being asked to have this miners were you really became concerned and that he really wanted to check on this to be his apartment his testimony was dramatic confrontation with you which to my eyes

an hour later or which spoke today spoke about that meeting is that still your testimony has to come back to that did not come to you and express thanks renee i wanted to ask you would you respect question was twenty one a point that it has to come back and you and as he expresses it is continuing and raising this money there's i have no recollection of any conversation with mr

cromartie and on this day or on the fourteenth when we met and i believe discuss the science of in which he asked me to vote for the propriety of what he was doing as i explained before to senator mccain i would be very very slow to assure her company proprietor of any undertaking analysts i myself was satisfied either because herb is the last poll in the world i would want you involved in something that was improper so i just don't recall that happening and i doubt very seriously that never did happen in those kinds of terms your previous question can add something in it about john dean's of war that's the reason i wanted to repeat the question i'm not aware any possible question of

john green's authority to ask mr camargo to do so as as being an issue between us at any time it doesn't make sense it doesn't it's not related to awkward part for relationship in any way for someone to come in is it is not john dean have already asked me to do this it's out of whack with what was our real relationship which was a republican when he wanted to do but that if we want an excuse we'd be his excuse not to vote and it is to develop the grievances and he was well mama rose city is starting back in gentlemen here we're talking about the third week in july and he's been doing this all this time that is more character is it seems to me apart relationship which was that he was a free agent could do anything you wanted but it was looking for an excuse we've

is excuse not to obesity specialist visits the john be an authority is what really got me and because of that he had come here to check on the farm that when most of the news that ask them to do something or you that he felt that people saw at the white house that was like coming from the president and that he would follow these instructions because he wanted to be of service or the prime minister that our relationship with her drama was never one of the principal an agent or recently issued instructions to him when we wanted him to help it was also very much on the peer relationship where if there were a project we're it's been having and how one kind or another big legal work or anything else we requested and he didn't feel comfortable with that or he

hadn't had this relationship in the office as iraqis or he just didn't like the sound of that he felt very free to say no thank you and this business of marching orders from the white house just doesn't ring true i refer you to your telephone conversation with his to come back on april nineteen nineteen seventy three and as you look at the page for page for that i'll agree with you but i think the point at which i will make in the future given the chance that you are not under our control any sort of slavery sense but that we agree that you would not be able to combat and through that i only on whether

and you know on the record and this is something that you know potentially important and that you were assured that will get the proper i would take it on that and you about the president and you're like yeah well i think we are relying entirely on the i mean no no really us who really you know i mean are they still going they were usually are now you've got to find one that it was not our it didn't act and to do that the question of propriety never came out right here that the comeback talking to you and yours but he's stating that i actually on order and you know on the record and this is

something that you felt sufficiently important and that you're looking at a proper i would think about going now at that point that the propriety issue you based on the you know independent judgment and knew that bob hola make an independent judgment i take it that's where the testimony that we're hearing and it is reminding that he acted on orders what i remind him your money back to your money that you rely on winning iowa are reminding him is that you were not it

didn't taste like now so much robert yes it was important to do it and that it was it was that's the cypriot and that if they didn't do it that way it might have in my recollection before he testifies to sign this is not now in august nineteen seventy two it's been it's been