1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-11-07; Part 3 of 6

the pope in these projects to try to get land for these minority organizations i believe it was about the latter part of seven months and how many lands would you say you knew that throughout your organization at the white house for these minority groups senators can tell you how many months they were in the nineteen seventies i notice an opening statement that on page do you make a statement to president nixon set out to do something about meeting the needs of the spanish speaking he created a statutory cabinet committee and opportunities for spanish speaking

people in the president do this you do that the legislation a sign that was in nineteen sixty nine you recommended initially when they recommended initially believed there was a another organization under president johnson called the inner agency it was an uneven job and then i introduced a bill in the senate on my own initiative that recommendation from the president and that's how this was created was not a word yet for the record here can you tell us what the committee has done for the people i ran into a concentrated on getting wet ones and nobody is given to three cabinet level committee

people i think self senator like the offices there were also we work together but it's a very closely and that any of these things it's a place they were also very actively involved give an example we wanted to find a qualified individuals for any positions members of that committee will stanton advisory council were notified of these opportunities and they were a number of other things that were given and many ways we one i do know in the treme has won over the country campaigning seasons i did it but i do know that literally as when all over the country campaigning for president nixon so we did

launch having mastered to have to convey to achievements in his vision is but what you do about a law they are scientists did you were sitting down in debt tell him just how grateful he should be to the administration for early last week he had received i'm sure you didn't tear them down with me that people in one of labour and tell about these things and get that also saw him to show his appreciation at the real contribution was that these states that in subsequent testimony would you deny this so now you remember a meeting that you had with him and india puppy and the contributions one season and with that mr wimmer of the department of labor it is simple and that was that the day before you submit the memorandum of

july i don't recall exactly and in that band that day you to a sudden they suggested to him that he should make a contribution he refused no we didn't to the best of my recollection senator there was no discussion whatsoever in terms of a political contribution to the campaign what made you suggest in the memorandum that he was at it is that it was not very considerate or appreciated i don't think i work well that's very important would you say this is a classic example of a firm not necessarily an odd thing which is making a comfortable living all those events that were well which indicates they may have a few others and what i mean by that is doing extremely well and it will be jimmy and then allen you

said that he was making a comfortable living off the horse again is a volume business is doing well now are on july the twenty four third there was another memorandum from alex sherman that asset presumably he was investigating as for you and the memorandum indicates says follows oh we haven't whined about development associates never learned of their close ties with the dnc and says are we fully comply with bill maher model is no mob july nineteen what inner connection does the observation of mr almond eyes with their your miranda july the nineteenth and we both made the same aspirations of those instances you know adjoined and they were pleased with is a lobbyist great are actual operation with respect of the reelection campaign of president nixon no sir no

i did not discuss any cooperation nestle or any contributions witnesses sciences i think what came up with his background in terms of his activities in the democratic party not only about anything away at why were some people anxious to impact it was just vocally expressing anti administration on settlements are quite hostile policy of doing that every employee in common with the president also what became his thing because he was the most are visible and in the latest opinion poll even the white house appears to be fired by the new eeoc chairman mao said and leave the matter is you know in laos says

you know it was always said that you know his the moments i don't recall a review of records in the albert diaz you know they've been so i don't know i mean even tell you the year sen whitehouse it's november november of last year last year i don't recall said you mean you forgot since november about what writing these people and listened did you make any effort to rein in the media just explained it the day after the election i went back in to fred mallek celebration in terms of recruiting for high level positions so i was out of the responsibility for spanish

speaking with a cat they're going my responsibilities and the defense's possibilities then were transferred to an armstrong was not cause for the president so i was really a part of that responsibility and their image to more responsive the thing that you hadn't you have the assurances that these people were given to file applications and that that would be considered and this is on strong i came on the staff was somewhat settled gave are raising and what we were doing in the spanish speaking area and gave her all of our files yellow is no nonsense most of malibu you mentioned that the national hispanic finance committee had to solicit some campaign funds and that you had and that it had realized collection of contributions in the total amount of four hundred thousand dollars no what happened to these contributions

those contributions were recorded with national finance committee contractors would see benefits from the administration i'm sure that there are some of them are included on the other hand there are a number of other individuals who were able to make a contribution in that sort of that committee now you mentioned in the testimony wednesday you prevented in executive session to the committee staff at the responsiveness group that such voter group wouldn't know that was not a principle which was the responsiveness who they were another part of the white house operation that was a nationalist now i can and undeniably ben kingsley by four or five individuals or whether it's an emotion

frank a rancher rob davison jerry jones and ben kingsley now i also mentioned that assertion the other day that i wasn't quite sure what that overlap there and i could've left out to be we get some changes because some of them went over to the campaign staff on the gym intended to mention the names of contractors are meant to use to any particular financed group yourself from time to time i had discussions with optically mr fernandez was chairman of the committee in terms of high level appointments in terms of some of the contractors that was no formal arrangement doing he never asked me for most of that i give him one there were also discussions of other areas effect in spanish speaking although there was a desire on the part of people in the white house including those in the responsiveness group to try to get some are contributions from these people who have received a contractor alliance was in the white

house and one of the responsiveness of who in the white house and to testify in executive session to the committee's their stalls and responsiveness group would encourage the person's buying program or contract to give political contributions directly to the national hispanic finance committee sir i don't recall making that statement but i don't believe that any the responsiveness to people knew any these contractors to exploit that enjoys think that in addition they were encouraged to contact friends and solicit other competitions i don't think on this sunday were falling just at the today in your health testimony in front and that is a decision with

know is that we made and perhaps we can be more responsive directly responsive to those questions by yourself also is it possible that we can have a staff a copy of that summary as an eight one and i was quoting verbatim from some way it's b ms rhonda

pays by the pittsburgh cause we're going to call this morning in this last few seconds at the last paragraph on page intense possums who would encourage person's plan for granted contract give political contributions directly to the nation's finest in addition to increased content francis was other contributions i don't recall saying that an executive session first applause and kicking very irresponsible school staff members did not have any direct contact with the applicant as

david i can't get this in proper perspective because you're talking about the two or three things here when we have a new orleans based on the web mar mar mobile's day but when a spanish speaking from received a grant or contract must abandon fernandez chairman of the national hispanic finance committee was then notified so that this company could be solicited for political contributions dedicate all your previous report made these activities with mr fernandez and you make a statement to the committee i think that statement so strong senator and i did not say that we notify those state as i indicated that it's not available

well let's not forget that slices so many of the contacts in terms of these last question just what is your version of it well as i had periodic content that decision on this on a number of matters in spanish speaking but i did not officially notified him of india countries beginning suggests the amounts principal another country it is david i just wrote this memorandum according to my model his activities in the white house for nineteen seventy two were approximately seventy five percent campaign related rodriguez according to my

mortal spend even more time in relation to campaign activities gave a twirl why are very rev twenty three or praise or previous meeting with potential contributors from miami the same exhibit that repartee indicates contact with rain and my model and been tremendous gemini ms bening finance committee as a great statement our summer as the general thrust of what the students are well you did discuss earth contributions with them has been engaged and at the role of the discus contributions and did you see complex events time time that we have that kind of discussion is one of those names at two mosques bananas whatever lying in

anything in mine except keep him abreast of some the accomplishments that we were making an illustration all i am thinking this well this is so interesting this statement is much stronger than what we recollect having said a witness having said in executive session and is not consistent with notes that i made at the top of that session i have sixteen pages of notes here and you know one or two instances of disagreement i find nothing in my notes to support this summary statement furthermore i like to say that we requested in writing a letter to mr hirschmann of the staff and also oregon mr lorson that we receive a copy of the summary and we probably could have objected

the main opposition clear out at that time and eliminated this confusion but i can see that there is some disagreement over this and we just like to make or position on the chair would say that it is very understanding that the interview was not taken verbatim transcript and then you say no question is an informal interview that it was the summer by the way is not a matter of record has not introduced the netherlands and has used this as a team especially if it was not taken under oath was not a verbatim transcript of the nature of the executive sessions memorandum really is really use the committee yes it is a memorandum and the sheer would point out that the testimony the witnesses the evidence on which the new regime and now the un's warm summer here step to know when criticism is that there are

just disagreements soundbite of interview that is not evidence and will not be perceived as evidence that the committee but rather the sworn testimony was witness before the committee i may be dramatic to say it is you they were developed a recollection on the part of the way that your has not tried to exclude the questions senator montoya put the mess into question based on the past there were issues in this statement here megan know i've strived excluded from until you were a part of my remarks were to the effect that the sworn testimony as distinguished from the staffs are the record on which the committee well basics future findings of fact and a date general for the remittances

that and you only yeah and that movement of this nation and the testimony of a witness i feel very much obligated to comment on the incredible insult that the administration has perpetrated on the spanish speaking people of this country by this blatant attempt by the spanish speaking voters they're not for sale in this country and there was a concerted effort to try to convince them that there was money in the draw if they just lined up and the people of this country are not that kind of order military tank the center of the state mountains and suspect that there may be very interpretation same fact checker what for a few reasons

do i understand i ride lately hearings on this morning as tamara moore that you read your statement which i haven't been informed hear that because they've been under oath before the committee and that statement you have therefore the more analysis to a category three and clearly here a noun for public records hamas government illegal or unethical activities or even days were to be called little dirty tricks that you write that state to the hassle now as chairman of the sadder this morning in and tried to assimilate the lines of questioning responses to a question i've got a great deal of difficulty and understand exactly what it is that's going on in relation to the men of this committee on it if i didn't feel that when danger achieving our goals

but i think there's a great danger here were in effect what you're doing is you're blinding your blending legitimate actions on the part of the illegal and unconstitutional and were almost considered gross i mean it's important point out that i was as a political system was ever trod advertises anything other than medicine in the political goals or necessarily a similar financial built the fact is that it's because the way that the nation as a whole and individuals and groups with immigration achieve their aspirations is through the political process pays attention

vaccines which no political party has no point in and citing a long list of wrongdoing which reformed anyone the counterterrorism mission for have no place on the emergency but i thought of connotations in the case is akin to illegally i would point out that the more politics we have the better in so far as politics standing for accountability and that something is done right by the republicans that's fine something's done wrong by the republicans some republicans some individuals

improve the delivery of course the series and we were to be held accountable for there to be held accountable so i want to hear about the legitimate functions were government been thrown into the same pot with has been brought before this committee here for he's not at all doesn't serve them onto of surrogate fathers members of the united states on tuesday is this further a lot of the spanish american in this country the fact this plane called our political fact the spanish americans left out the call and have been for a long time and so far as the national scene is concerned and if anything else pull that should be standing up and cheering because i'm one of

them neatly my party for your period please we please try to get the blacks and the republican party we try to get the urban dwellers and the republican party we try to get labor in the republican foreign minister there's a reason why feldman of armor population who have been shortchanged like a test of that up and the police in my own state of connecticut were much richer he was in the question is what we've heard prior to this hearing and try to tear down some segment of our population here we were through the political process trying to recognize a group of them left out and very frankly that type of plus effort is entirely different from the effort which are categorized certain peoples as enemies and more

you must be a specific allegations illegal activity and constitutional activity was actively all the alleged here is what goes on and has gone on and legitimately gone on or that why in heaven's name you think that the democratic party became the majority party is just these types of efforts that we're talking about right here being applied to other disadvantaged groups throughout her work i see yours has the committee on an example of pulling him out to a particular group but i think there still needs are or are very special care no no quite frankly that maybe would score some points and in a political sense just as we lose points when you're matters of the reason for the committee

company attention of the american people all things being equal i think there's no question about the fact that the administration any administration democrat or republican house right to take its concentration of efforts and its attitudes toward any segment of our national life and certainly i think any administration isn't entitled to that song to me so i think it important to lay out of that we don't try to establish new ideas and people look to us to this committee to give in picture of american hawks what a sister and i'm like this is the legitimate type of activity it's been going on for a long time in this country and it is responsible for many you would still be standing outside the door to having been brought into the system and sharing and in political power to that i think is so

important to give to each one of us and none that i think that what i want made so again murder people of agriculture politics are also want the point maybe because then no was in my mind of the nominee one man's committees this fall into the same trap that matters which we have heretofore barred the review say it doesn't diminish the importance in the minds of the people of this country illegal and unconstitutional act to deliver they're that they're all and we throw business like this in an interview so maybe all it really wasn't so bad it wasn't for what i've heard up to this point anyway was very poor and that hopefully will register in people's minds and such

and on the other hand to go ahead in what i consider to be a strictly political actions and condemn these types of that coal miner on the testimony of this what he has sworn under oath did not engage in illegal or unethical activities he understands what it is to go ahead and promise governmental positions or governmental contracts for whatever from my flat in london the surgery raises uncertainty of testimony and a proper context and french words and says the effect this will have on what we've heard and so forth has gone on before and also i think the american people should have an accurate picture of what goes on in politics i think the people of this country the chilies or aspirations

i would hope the republican party would make more effort directions of many more people in groups throughout this country jury chose to china like just thinking religion in order before i recognize she counts of the committee i want to announce two things one that the article thirty has arrived in short they will recess lunch second to say speaking as a member of the committee i'm not in my guest is vice chairman i want to command center worker more receptive than i think very very useful analysis out the essence of politics often taken the position that there is an obligation to seek the vote and the support of every segment of society no matter how small the prospects of success maybe as often been the situation and politics in my state where the case of the black votes on say

well they're beyond the reach of the republican party they are we received a great number of black votes but the important thing here is the prospect of success they're not getting factor the responsibility of a political party is to try to speak for all the people and to exclude know i'm so in that philosophical plane i especially want to commend senator walker for his contribution to associate myself awake with his appraisal chairman i dont it's appropriate for me at this time to interpret the evidence as i think we've said from time to time you'll be the duty the committee to listen to the evidence read the documents violate them i just wanna make an observation that senate doesn't like or year old testimony reductions be he was not the

administration sought to give grants to a minority group at whether or not certain members of that minority who were made enemies of justice and white and if you were not unfettered imagination a trickle are getting grants you dismiss that as a potential twenty year graduated out of a program which was meant to you before you as a disadvantage person you support the administration in a fight financial contributions or systems were you in the program and therefore this was not some of the wider the program as we brought up the documents and evidence one between minorities against non minorities but discrimination within a minority group within spanish speaking american people and that had become part of witnesses testified perfectly competent spanish speaking contractors were dropped from grants because they would not support the administration gave contributions and those who were supporting the question whether or not that is

you're making an allegation that an illegal is this is this seen as the money has testified under oath that sounds shows that he has previously served contributions united nations of the sanctions and the drop from or grants because it was not supportive than inspiration and because my recollection my mind and the body is so unsteady also answers to other that's the politics and i couldn't believe some of what humans american politics guy controls how are in the federal agencies that received appropriations national committees spent in his people that there will be at those monies are going to be given a grant sees who place themselves for the administration of the company or persons who are from the same minority group who refused to let them sell for the administration are dropped and a drug problem and this is this is the

evidence that i believe it is appropriate for council to confirm and five but i do not think it's appropriate to get into law an extended area about their intended of the testimony that record will speak for sale i thank thee counselor to counsel for making his remarks i think the time has come the recession the committee were sessions as the senators research for lunch we're going to take a short break our selves public television coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after station identification unabridged coverage of their hearings as being broadcast as a public service where local public television station this is pbs public broadcasting service it's

been terry

and ride continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities it again and black correspondent peter carey as the hearings resume senator baker called the committee to order is about to turn the questioning of william amato former white house aide to senator in a way and they will come to order the chairman is occupied with an executive session of the government operations committee man will return to these hearings surely senator no ms tamara moreland i recall in your responses that he's in korea on the s e r and b vocal body field twenty million dollars is you respond the department of labor that provide

whisker is out and this i believe it was the national presence of latin american gi forum the most prominent politicians of spanish speaking people were invited to san clemente or special complex signing ceremony and reception with the secretary of labor the correct i believe that is certain was not there but if i recall there was a ceremony there was just separate out the president was not for can you tell us what happened with his reich says the election day that i don't know as i indicated just before ray i changed over from when my spanish speaking have to it's a grain

responsibility for this election so that he was out of the mainstream of his speaking responsibilities oh i believe the bs er patients receive the notification in early january i believe the first week of gender that the fonz a frozen we'll wear that this was about the nasa the president i think most of the funds have been frozen and just want to know if you were aware of this possibility of the freeze there could be is a 30 that it i do not recall i was not involved in that aspect or really get completely out of the spanish speaking that i did not keep up with the activities that were going on at the time as the us on good faith definitely the freeze was not does not to my knowledge so

just for publications are you personally don't want us to know why he resigned the end of august and now i'm president of the firm that's echoed here in washington with offices in los angeles and more specialized an east west street the ap at the time of the resignation or do cover that was doing what the statement were you or i think that the epa released about the fiercest under senator and there that reporter for many other contexts although i thought we better understanding that what i said this morning is how i feel about what the president did in spanish speaking area during the past four

years deportation deferred that you're disappointed black women often those not a proper quotations right id say i was disappointed that things had slowed down temporarily because we were having to change their thoughts in there mr janszen i really getting out of the spanish announcements coming on and there was some slight time their summit there was a period when things slow but i did not approach their an infection a final question section three and section four of the project section three a laser them is the militant hamas won or the consideration for political activity all for the support or opposition

to any candidate won a political party in connection with any primer general's special election do you believe that any one of you and the special task force may have been violating this section four makes it a misdemeanor to deprive another one position were a lot of photo really benefit on account of race creed color any political activity or opposition candidate when a political party in any election the way that only one of the members of the special task force may have been operating in violation of the section i don't like coal don't think so i mean that typically you would be exempt from the white house

if i recall a testimony though those in europe this taskforce a rueful other departments know well mr miller is chairman kevin comedian is exempt internet checkers a pointy the president confirmed by the senate on dozens of staff at the un campaign committee and it was on the white house rules and i think that that likely this was the deal to us from the state department excuse me regimes are all proceeding i don't recall discussions there except that i recall was then cancelled for presidents sent a memorandum to

colson saying that i was exempt section five of the hatch act makes it unlawful to solicit funds for political purposes from any person known to be receiving any benefit provided for made possible by an act of congress appropriated funds the way that any one of you in the spanish speaking endeavor that been in violation of perception nelson and it is your testimony that you have not to involve yourself in on raising activities i was involved in farming activities in terms of speaking at various dimensions backwards but not in terms of actually soliciting funds from any individual organization it

was actors of apology office to immediately in order for members of the sputnik finance committee often grappled some portion of appointments so that this committee can then solicit funds pointing out that i don't think that the prison transcribe that quite capture what i was trying to clear that any history i did have discussions with members from time to time in terms of those they've gotten contracts of those life so were upset that the mentally ill but we're doing quite well and that they can display his program we were there fernandez was going to seek contributions from these people i would assume that he was going to listen and it was on this assumption that you said that these may have been some of the names these bridges and our discussions on the

telephone on one of my decision also i'm a visual testimony the best of their knowledge of bees not knowing where richard walden so many active duty to be in violation of the law is not just a threat it was on local that gray who is a pleasant director of omb is what was its full message you as director was speaking to vision of the twenty fourteen election the president so the president director of omb program running and pressures on that same office

visit or he was heading up the effort in a campaign yes what was just chalk ocean rolling he was my immediate supervisor because he was in charge of paul's special interest efforts nineteen seventy two marni you express it you know that this administration set out something about meeting it means that the spanish speaking people it's very commendable saying this is an easy day the administration was more interested in making the names of the spanish speaking people in position to really reelect it does show that support the considerations enter into and i feel very strongly isn't sure those who are also

involved in this effort that this was a sincere effort on the park administration could do some for the spanish speaking it's never been done before with the holy season cooperation with the sunday goes and the election nelson is into those who get an election and then there's the law i'm sure there were some who got some assistance but i don't think we can generalize says there are dangers in this campaign contributions and also he knows someone else did it well the finance committee have you know informal arrangements to be careful about

i don't think so again you take a look at that the children are actually mentions needs a big auto loans do you know about that and said that matter of the first time i saw that senator was last night mr burgess committee prison does not familiar with what would transpire and i don't

recall us i don't recall discussions about this with anybody you could've been used to low seven and he explained some ireland why i can record some of these things i used to get into the office about sincerity every morning and probably put in fourteen sixteen hours a day made over a major received probably over a hundred phone calls and they saw a number of people even in meetings or in just the formal discussions so that i had to dedicate a lot of my work out to mr rodrigues was to convey the light on it it's not only night has forced the day throughout the white house in government other government agencies so that even though it might come up they have a responsibility to get what ever had to be accomplished the

idea for did not always know the details you're welcome as mentioned this morning in nineteen seventy two those who lived long ago let me see anyone where you are now tension though an exam that left thirteen year it will be

doing i know you also want to have mentioned to me you ought to concern in a probation rule the possibility of believe that any thought daniels and you're right you mean nathan whatever about just now some testimony as the group's spanish became cabinet comedian spanish american appointed which were used in conjunction with hispanic finance committee that rang in campaign funds religion but also

that is not true defends certain responsibilities here and the only people that were raising funds for the president's reelection was a national senate finance committee as it applies to the spanish speaking in spanish speaking persons and corporations which did not know that is the administration walked out of those who did and that's another benefit saint germain as india testimony administration spent a lot of money in terms of campaign funds compliments which didn't necessarily serve in life go up again as they weren't necessarily the best qualified possible recipients were faddis grievances of the points that the products are you gonna find a system on

internet governance and interrogating you bought in got that except that those people who were active in the campaign and did not benefit to an active in the campaign was that not correct answer there were a few of those that were active in the campaign there were other firms were not most are active in the campaign they were fully qualified to see any government contract a grant to do some work for them we get to watch and which ones that seriously are they contribute to a campaign not that i know of i don't think people are that it's organization that were flown enough to do it in the first place or nonprofit organization that causes itself men are training you

testified on stage at opening statement that you did nothing illegal unethical am pro union activities at the white house in nineteen seventy two cab for people to look at it shows a series of letters and cars on that front of judge and then that you wrote let on june twelve nineteen seventy two dead and then there is a baby oh jesus a month later your taxes and operating like to see judges and then disappoint you for the state and that it would be a real coup if we could have

one disney's and then there's also a federal judgeship but some opposition in the administration and return to his executive position as chairman of the spanish speaking democrat senators i recall discussions that we had a dozen and this at that time we explore the possibilities of salinas nation because he was so well known let's go american community had no timeline recall anyone promising or offering mr objection on this position whether doing some time after the election there was a vacancy on the consumer safety products commission were present wanted to appoint someone was best to get a tour of extraction and his name came up and i believe he was in one of two interviews and offered a position to

go can you then five foot two and political one as a memorandum to john traub eighteen of the state eighteen nineteen seventy two romney you said the judge then there's a lot of followers on june eight nineteen seventy two the letter dated june twelve nineteen seventy two from you don't have a mandate you'd make the authenticity of these properties yes sir and of them and inserted into record than i had unanimous consent may be appropriately identified and serving all documents have not savory will be received pronunciation alan weil well you know i have the visions title eighteen section six

hundred years ago ka wah other benefits under consideration for political candidate a political pawn you sir is that engaging with these documents and i think there's concern even that one will likely emphasize that there was no promise or no after what celebrities and on this about a federal judge let alone is the latest pacific players you'd be appropriately reading that you're recommending it's both now you didn't get any of the money

is made available in the ad campaign august what did not campaign did not sign the reason that the number thirty six in nineteen seventy two ray davis then friday said is no i read further development associate at that i'll leave los angeles is a washington based consultant firm have been punted on one to two million dollars tower going straight you know under

saddam for our friday musical oregon must fight man who ate one of mcgovern's campaign called famine inject all most recently he was awarded a five year grant seven hundred and twenty two thousand three hundred and eighty three dollars at that they had to evaluate an experimental screwball and he also received an eighty eight as the contract over two hundred thousand dollars evaluate bilingual education programs in the us and also appears he will be again in may the region and it is under consideration fb fb