1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-31; Part 5 of 7

the pope communication with you know specific i'm disgusted that this was an area i was injured mm hmm we do i understand that it is

oh yeah i mean as you know and i got on civil rights that was the warnings then they wouldn't let us through these tapes discussing what now they would be able borrow and soul cause i know yesterday the white house they like that

no way money he's right and in races he's right you know sir i think that that it's quite clear that because the white house had made that statement the president made that statement i was faced with the question as to what i was to do with knowledge that i have and the desire

as best i can and i faced with that dilemma asked my attorneys how to deal with that in the end the terms of what i was permitted to testify do and what i was restricted from testifying and in that regard the white house's response as i understand it and as this i can't give you a legal analysis of a layman's viewpoint it would appear to me that the white house's response to my question as to what what i'm supposed to do was that they obviously could not restrict me from testifying as to acknowledge i had as a result of my having been in attendance seventy but they didn't place upon me the restrictions and i must not testify to information which i've been so lonely in the process of listening to your gut those are

that that was not the point i want to re remember why you picked up as mr wilson because i really was a major western nation and now what do you see and well what they said finally when my son he took the song to

you is among those are now to pass bauer german i don't understand the legal process we get the same thing that i think you would have is you say there's a

lot on not but it's a duty no no no and so as a wave of law and that would be as joe no

it's true the zionist agent assigned to stage in the last year examines investor may just this one has seen all of them that's an easy one i played with him at length and i think that

at least eight ms gemma if i can if i can simply say that that it's anything that i have discussed regarding information again solely from the tapes i have i have so spoken here after the chair overall the objection of the white house to my doing so effortless know this was not on our op op op they won the money thank you the poems by

his preamble yes just preamble no one of my actors and we're going to get to the finals and we're going to insist on wednesday conclusions and finally on weekend edition major calamity you understand your own on your testimony today that you prepared to stay together with your counsel and nonproliferation what the white house has absolutely correct senator baker well that all a matter of a legal issue that might or might not be of interest of this committee relative to the

admissibility are certain information used by movement takes to refer to a collection action all that is a separate spending now costs on one hand and this committee preparing to la i'm a considerable sensitivity i'm your attorney on stretchers or restrictions would be placed on that respect now is that society mr wilson years here either but i would say that your hero description is correct and the reason

is because i as my counsel what they're doing is what i consider to be a very sensitive and difficult situation and i saw the ice and saw the gods as a result of fascination about it and your description unless the piazza that they didn't answer is christian scriptures read anna lee they gave you a letter dated july thirteenth address where is our president and readers often ask that would see lorenzo velez for president but for many

mr calderon has instructed by the president at the present and so is still pursuing jews are to see that letter addressed to do the responsible question but i guess you can on the state has committed seventeen years her testimony thirty nine is to make sure we

respect as character no sir did you have these areas today so the information that's correct just to be absolutely correct i have reported to the president on the content of the tapes that i listened to as a report to the president not in the context of getting an and not in the time of the preparation my statement indicated that all of that content would be in my state

oh no situation i was a personal observation next tuesday subject thank you i'm still working security

material or something and there's new information on my part i don't believe just because there's no intimation of my part that i didn't suspect that something had gone on i knew that something had gone i didn't know what i still don't know what exactly what when it was very clear statement on what you learned when you were and the state department the circumstances i know

you're right you're welcome and mia returning my state what the president knew about the watergate again if we can divide the region seventy been posted seventy one he knew it was basically what contention about wanting to have when on the region's seventeen activities as i see it through the normal channels that you knew as

ongoing the violence in the course of the investigation and prosecution took place that specific individuals were charged dr victor and he was going for an acted on the basis of the information given him that the information that was was made known was a complete information he was told us i think has been recounted here several times the only one in which i believe i was present was an occasion which are pressing questions also present which was the blackest of the cabinet and the southern republican leadership conference and the senior members of the white house staff in september going on september twelve nineteen seventy two disney

has a review upcoming campaign and a number of these people would be out campaigning for the silent and the course of the meeting cover campaign issues and the questions and answers on various things at the speed of one are now in the process of the attorney general of the united states spoke on the subject of the war and reported to this group that the facts of the investigation of the watergate including the statistics of numbers of interviews and then all of thousands of gallons of oil and then reported to this program the president as he had reported earlier that the indictments would be brought down in the next few days and that they would complete the investigation the investigation and that there it was clear to him and to the video investigators and prosecutors that that the delta for the condition of the democratic national committee was limited to those people who would be

indicted it did not rise further in that the membership of the staff of the committee to relive the president or the white house you mentioned money what are other rhetorical question which are you know equivalent or it's pretty well melissa much information sometimes two or three things what did the president say when he found out that living a month or two of issues this year at an important officials were caught in the watergate imagine water situation can you tell us though he expressed and anytime that you got into the discussion turned to

the question of the break in at the democratic committee just utter in comprehension as to how such a thing could have happened and why such a thing would have gone on originally the oil that was never discussed not not to my knowledge that anyone ever suggest that you ever talk or are leaving those are icy senator acknowledged the turnout estimate one more question for you another state situation has got to be a pretty celebrate their servers don't you understand that i made a motion and i feel very strongly about seventy

eight he's even still can't continue analysts point out to you is that it was safe to me to be an extraordinary sort of test the accuracy of your recollection inequality and are making from those tapes remember until the last last second page to the president said there is no problem in raising a million jobs we can do that but it would be wrong now that period were to follow after week and then it would be emotional branding state clearly what it would be wrong

for all those tapes and say i'm absolutely positive that can take to a very literal with five years there's a distortion inequality the local police a restaurant and my final question is are you have any idea whether or not other witnesses who were present another presidential power stations and then there's commitment miles says they really took their conversations i dont know senator that guy is my understanding that no one would first was almost i don't think anybody that says that has appeared or will appear before this committee a new existence of thing joining us now with the committee

the search my understanding that that no one has been or wilkie is the rationale for normalization of the medicine at an impression and your recollection for recording president as a former staff member yes precisely exact same situation where virtually not at this one time would you be agreeable must call it that could be negotiated otherwise would to be agreeable course are your concerns were to be agreeable to righting those tapes appear those two dates and playing them senator you're asking me to take a position on not a legal issue under the position of the rebels which are not asking when you asked the president to go notice i'm simply saying wow a witness before this committee be agreeable as an individual is weak and otherwise her characters to them they

will having that advised by counsel at the american i'm not creating a legal problem by the answer that i would give that i would want to give without even well that opportunity because they would confirm one of those before senator thomas continues the questions about that money for watergate defendants were going to take a short break for the television coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after a pause for station identification unabridged coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs of public broadcasting service the it's

b and that continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities

here again correspondent jim lehrer as we go back to the hearings president nixon's for cheapest that they care of all of mama's still answering the questions and so her town which is asking them just because a new law unfortunately i wasn't permitted to listen in my capacity as a witness before this committee i was asked to listen and learn my capacity reformer capacity as a staff assistant to the president and as the assistant to the president who knew about the existence of the tapes mr drutman i don't believe was aware of the existence of now you listen that leave once in april those

four letter word that's correct i was the one of the tapes that time subsequent than two in july after you can practice that's correct private citizen be more in violation of a senate committee that's a question that i can't answer senator accepted it good as a means of reporting to the president and you where the president has stated that he himself has listened to a comedy satisfy nations spain it's one of the only state to get someone that might get a different interpretations and you listen to the tapes in your judgment is in a way you can get a different interpretation of the united states senate senator talent i think that the president's statement was that the states would sustain the position that he's taken with

regard to matters here i don't believe that and i may be wrong but i don't believe that he said that that would be subject to interpretation by other people have you know he said that that the tapes contain commentary him and that discussion that would be or could be susceptible to interpretation in my opinion if you're asking my opinion it would be that any reasonable person who listened to the tape as i did we come up with the same conclusion that i have and the president has gone on over almost as i recollect that maybe he himself had listened to satisfy this day in libya but that day could be subject to letter from the right that i personally as a giant got a consistent with what i know to be the truth

of what i have to add that i wasn't in a verbatim report and all conversations they contain cow's that persons with different perspectives and motivations would inevitably in arabic and wait and i believe that's consistent with with my answer your question senator which i would take to say that his conclusion and his belief is that the conclusion would be as he stated but that there were also comments on the date subject to various interpretations let's get into another area very fluid please just talking and leave you requested three hundred and fifty thousand dollars apiece and they should be made available to your discretion in quite sick this or that money was often as it was not in the white house that was available they led to a discussion that's right and that was my left over from the

nineteen sixty eight campaign yes sir that was my understanding been that money ultimately won that in the hands of lawyers to defend downloads and the commonwealth i play along as poor man's i don't know that it did senator i only know that it ended up being delivered to <unk> of the committee to re elect the president mr lewis testified before this committee that money most of it i think and lawyers family is to sustain that and have unveiled an been prosecuted from my question is this a contribution made confronting president will propose elect their own to thank and a violation of speech spend

that money to pay these four prominent lawyers prominent i don't attempt to judge dee a the reason for the defense funds that were set up i didn't attempt to judge it at the time they were set up and i i don't know now what they have now is for those or it was not under my control that was my it was moved from my control to the control of the committee senate re election race and not their requested by senate by your by request you know what the number was i did not know for sure what they're going to do with it that they didn't do anything i do the same time we need for these funds for defense cuts supposed to a candidate for public office hours one of you admire someone else elected i wrote out a chain mail the new

york campaign efforts to get like the recall is wouldn't you think he'd be a violation of the public trust that mining accident you ultimately wound to defend them it would depend i have to say senator other circumstances the individual situation with which the hypothetical case or the actual case i'm not fully familiar and i'm not able to make the judgment well let's get an age of twenty five he was dating committee i requested all approved use of the bomb was such purposes as the thing in poland that we did during that period both campaigns or a candidate you know about and skip over the eighth twenty six alabama campaign funds wins or candidate for the democratic nomination for governor was opposing vault of a

lot and that also wanting contributing to vote for the political efforts of the president was a lot i assume it was sen obama made in violation of trust to take that private living collections banded in the democratic primary no i don't believe so at the media as i said here was the belief of the president's advisors on the southern political scene that this was a sound political move on behalf of the president i'm not sure the testimony has been i believe i don't know ms tomei as five in september to seek funds difficult elements was giving the people on long to hand total of about four hundred thousand dollars dionne wrote for political purpose

i can't analyst juan enriquez to add you know one of a place in alabama that's right why i requested that the money our team for this purpose i did not it was not directly involved in the process of making the transfer of the funds and in this so called investigation the entire investigation has leapt on beans on the investigation of a cover up what was taking place and why john bain was making an investigation ongoing but and this is an investigation of the watergate yes or whatever or no one else was involved in

the investigation that time there were hundreds of other people involved in the investigation the demonstrations that this was a mad at west pacific charges have been made almost daily in the news media the surf was with knowing that frequency but there were indeed charities may provide the time and that even use in right in the beginning and organized facilities around the state you could mail in those median country i don't believe any charges against i don't believe there were charges made that the president abbas and my question is this while considering the serious nature of those charges reviewed the presidents closest confidants this development mexico says he and the bread was that let's all at the

discretion of methane in the water what was not in any way whatsoever this person mr bean it was under the supervision of the justice department the federal investigation and it was an investigation of unprecedented scale no sir yes indeed the fbi investigation start of the year unless they know there's a saying that army units to be more investigation saying i was not doing any investigation at all you finally got injured athlete again yeah mr obama was asked by the president in march thirtieth this year to have they can ever to assemble what facts were available and at any other information he could get at that time and this morning they demand morning

that caused trouble for the white house have any of the war and the defendants that caused trouble anyone at the white house and i don't know you know they get into the area you know then won again not until march of this year when it was raised in yesterday's report for the president on april seventeenth this year the president announced on march twenty first he began an extensive new investigation and the watergate as a result of a sparkling new information would he be achieved on that day who conducted that investigation at the outset yesterday subsequently well it's a you're talking about a statement he made on what may seventeen we had discovered a problem no information that he had discovered information on march twenty first and

that from the time of march twenty first through through yeah oh for about a week it was mr dean was supposed to be getting a full report and then starting march thirtieth yes to german to assemble a fact foreign and try to get a full report one is these are the same time it's my impression like to avoid impressions as much as possible but that i think this one is is very much to the point that you're you're raising i think the president was investigating the thing itself also he spent considerable time on this he asked me from time to time to make phone calls as i testified this morning he talked with people and he asked questions that i think were a part of his upper saw her on his part to get information first

hand oh no attempt to make an overt personal investigation because at that was something i just would be possible and olives pitted president believes you an awful lot of second nineteen seventy three and has been amputated due on march second it was going for march twenty first believe that mr dean implicated the march twenty first except to say that there was a whole apollo ten show probably could develop in connection with the transfers of three and thirty thousand dollars question about it extensively president the president yesterday about that three hundred fifty thousand dollar nest ehrlichman testify mr peterson that prize surprised to find you or fifteen cause of amputations in that statement said that

he voluntarily resigned under no pressure right about to be pregnant and you know those are the president and i discussed doesn't justify this morning to be on tuesday that that at that time it became apparent to me and i'm sure it was apparent to the present that i was not in a position to carry out my duties effectively prop up and the question was discussed in terms during the period of the last couple weeks of april in terms of a leave of absence for the resignation and ultimately decided on my part that resignation was the proper course president reagan david beckham at boutwell last name and this is to drive them all with the testimony that i don't believe the end of

that others have said this about the nation's oldest climbs family says the pentagon will finally be you know i'm not that you're basing that as i understand it now on just avoiding my recollection is slightly different they're like to explain like no it's my recollection is slightly different perhaps not substantially different in that it was my understanding that mr peterson's recommendation was that the president plays assad leaves of absence because the testimony of information that you have was deeply concerned are contained in matters that would be embarrassing to us in terms of our continuing in a position he specifically as i understand it informed the president that he did not have anything that legally implicated us on that basis on the president it's my understanding asked him said that he would not take action to put

place assad leaves of absence in the absence of specific charges or information that didn't implicate us which mr peterson as i understand it never produced thank you mr harmon not time to buy new podcast co optional dominoes question pieces of information and his motive i think that's true do

you recall the sirs i said i don't recall a report from him i don't recall requesting and due to cleanup the final report of the events you have a sister lately after the discussions what there were discussions regarding the break in and the ongoing developments in the watergate case and i'm certain that mr vigil is in some of the discussions with cancer regarding the reagan would be yes i showed up for a similar question about are legitimate discuss any manager indicated to you no sir i think that in my state to try to draw

a distinction between what now is for cover up which i feel is a loose term that is not be a defining each person's mind would say that in each other persons in it so generally come to being really relaxed laid for fear that when you say cover up my cover up to me any of the illegal actions that were taken mr mcgrew works for you that's of staff white house he did for a short period of time he came into the white house as a special assistant under my responsibility is and continued a natural for the four months i believe which

it moved over to her client's office as deputy director of communications over here were you also in greensburg i was now he was we were he was a member of my staff during the time he was a member of my staff that i saw in tripoli and on a business basis you're going to do when he was in his first year so yes that is the visual of it nineteen seventeen to

discuss o'neill realistic questions this is a state where you did not call issues discussed as is that i have no recollection of the discussion we are of course out of that meeting in rules this veterans' the war on the mission to your team mr mitchell right the general election battle what it's my understanding from his divorce testimony that he went to be a part of his financial bottom number was the question of raising money

the a i i have no recollection of that having been brought up as i said this morning i was in i believe most of the these are going to be in the room most of the time reading this particular way discussion of money as i said in my statement if there was one time virtually certain that it would have that in the context of the type of his dream or described which was very incidental libya the event was not a principal subject under discussion at that time that may be in a matter that you know for most of the state either as a testimony are involved there's also been discussions in a surprise appearance here that he went to several

areas after day levine reporting i don't know of the instance of his reporting that to me i have a general recollection of his telling me that there had been such an occasion and i have a very clear equality of installing event and last summer some time and a very clear recollection of his telling me in march of this year in considerable detail and several times certainly also mentioned earlier that there's a big questionnaire which raises of puzzlement in my mind is too low what actually happened that i had been willing to accept their skivvies

recollection recounting julio this meeting on the basis of the joke that indicated that at a meeting yesterday that was in march to planning meetings were not in december january is being told me but we're tracking on january twenty seven and there were four i now find they have a question to you i have to admit that i don't recall is doing so he's balding about it so many times that i have heard the story did you

want to have a meeting with me and for my law does show that i did have a meeting with the war at first but that was the only meeting i've ever be either far more important you report june july my recollection is absolutely clear that totally unequivocal and without any shade of doubt in any way shape or form and that is this truly was conducting an investigation that everybody who would be in a position to be interested or concern with a bill that he was an investor be nudity was it

included in my my statements about elizabeth thirty nine which in my view at least and he knew he was in a fight to take just a second because i didn't put it in there i'd like to read i think it's two sentences from exhibit i believe thirty five they would also put into evidence before this committee and nine in which this is delhi thirty five days the draft of a proposal letter words affidavit to be submitted by mr dean to work the senate judiciary committee in response to its request that he appear before the committee with regard to have a connection with the great affirmations and that this draft which is pretty good evidence that shows on its last page i'm sorry which would

indicate that it was his intention to make this a sworn statement that the us i suppose was contemplated in response to the judiciary committee wanting team become for direct connection that is the fbi reports that he obtained from the justice that's right and that india process of that on page three that's that that he would like to get to that very concerning the murders which event publicly raped and the second of those facts when he says he went into the committee i would like to go second it has been suggested that the fact that i conducted an investigation of this murder at the direction of the president may be inappropriate for me to obtain fbi information relevant to their investigation to the contrary in an investigation of this importance it was incumbent upon me to obtain all available information from every appropriate

investigative resource and i would be if i had not requested information from the fbi in this episode say that one of the major puzzles in my mind in this whole case at this point in time this is done oh john dean possibly could contend or feel that he did not and that the investigation that was not true for conducting an investigation in the sense of being a white house involvement have been aware of all the facets of the ongoing investigation by other agencies it was certainly not called an information sheet special investigator for watergate and put in charge of all investigating activities were being conducted but he was the

man in the white house was investigating white house for potential white house all day and who was maintaining whitehouse coordination with the other governmental agencies that were conducting over all that's it mr hazan oh i accept that this is something that the committee is just one of the question you know i think there's been a very viable date in the gene test is to me even with the president and he said in that meeting of course the president brought up

diplomacy as well as thirty one million dollars or i'm curious why wasn't that they listen to you have any idea why the president didn't instruct you do listen to that tape as well as on the twenty first of september the fifteenth and i don't know yet for one thing there was a meeting in which it was and one of these the cell service is the president and he has this is so thank you and so you're seeing the little present dated july

nineteen seventy three abreast to the chairman of this committee so that was really are he's visible why will be even greater than last place of private residential conversations then two presidential papers at ano opening statement on page ninety i said i got access under the supervision of us secret service agent of mine had written a lot about in conversations with the president which president while i presume from that is that the secret service agent was with you at all times when i was in the files mr robinson okay

yes i'm certain you'll recall that in response to an injury mr bovee you justify but these days we're in the exclusive custody of a secret service agent of all time i don't recall services understand how to explain was in your custody is it in your living room yes i'm sure it was well the president said the page so much more than all the presidential papers you're going to get them when you interview

of all time and yet you were permitted to take this deep hole and crack first of all i believe you said september twenty first thought was no escape of september fifteenth so i just want to be sure we are tied at the right at the idea at the time that it took to take all listen to the existence of the tapes was not known people identify and it was not contemplated i don't believe that that its existence would ever be known people and it was a request to review material for the president which he knew i was familiar with and concerning a meeting in which i've been in attendance but he also stages so that the writer has completely on this that i also

had several other tapes in my possession at that time of other meetings which it had also been suggested requested it i did not listen to because i believe that involved but i think all of the bombings that which i had not been in attendance at any time in any arbitrary september fifteenth meeting i had been in a tennis rally entirety and decided not to listen to the tapes of the meetings to which i had not the average had not been present and i return them without listening to are you suggesting that especially well