1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-12; Part 5 of 5

today as lunar and financial sense you may have given false testimony under oath on our nation's israelis and has committed to believe your testimony before this committee and especially on an issue whether he appeared in awe final approval of the key biscayne illegally whether or not you read about the president of a cover up for the suspension in the cover up and an active part in the playoffs for cover up or a case or any other part of the white house mr daschle oh i disagree with your interpretation of those mothers who have spread as far as they determinations of this committee i think they can judge their testimony by testimony make their own conclusions after my

parents here for four days three and a half days whether i think that's true mr mitchell and anything else i would say would be self serving was in the senate of the united states a resolution to establish a select committee of the senate to conduct an investigation and study the extent any illegal improper or unethical activities were engaged in by any person he's acting individually or in combination with others in the presidential election of nineteen seventy two there any campaign counters are other activity related to and from washington and black brings you gavel to gavel videotape of today's hearing of the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities years and black senior correspondent robert might name reading john mitchell left the watergate committee today after doggedly maintaining his innocence for three days but leaving a trail of conflicting testimony behind him in the final moments of his appearance chief committee counsel center of that has

raised serious questions and i squirmed that's boring in instances where mitchell had given evidence on previous occasions which differed sharply from what he's told the urban committee after mitchell the committee heard from richard moore still special counsel on the white house staff did in john dean's account of his grand jury decision to end his part in the watergate cover up more strongly supported president nixon's convention but he discovered the full depth of watergate only on march twenty first of this year a subsequent cross examination revealed serious alexis and moore's ability to remember that controversy over the release of white house documents gould a few degrees today as president nixon agreed to meet with german are going to discuss the proper indicator he says the move that resulted in that invitation today two executive sessions of the watergate committee a phone call to levenson a resolution similar

sentiment is unavoidable white house then they get to be said he will meet with president nixon discuss a problem that's plagued the republic of recent surveys of thomas jefferson john marshall the doctrine of separation of powers at first glance the issue would appear to be a simple one in this resolution the committee said it was a unanimous opinion they should have access to every document in the white house and the executive branch but verizon the watergate investigation the white house on the other hand every few such accidents it may be that another round of compromise can be reached such as i discussed yesterday byron and john mitchell perhaps documents pertaining to criminal acts or political activities but of course that raises a point of who was to be the judge of what should be made available the committee said is anxious to avoid any confrontation with the white house but if it is unsuccessful of that confrontation comes then this matter will be on its way to the supreme court for a final resolution senator howard baker was not going to the meeting is an eternal optimist he believes it can be workout i think there's still a chance that we can find a middle

ground i'm not sure what that is but think back on the fact that a few months ago we were confronted apparently with the prohibition against the testimony of white house agency an unnamed former agent can remember chesnutt with this anymore for a while we were confronted with the paradoxical of the attorney client privilege has to be claimed against mr james testimony that's probably more track records that they hadn't i persist in hope not hopeless optimism that we confront awareness when the president made in this case then back away from his letter of the sixth now i think that the letter of the six states that he will not come up here and just you're not give us access to presidential documents it does not say we can't talk to him someplace else and it doesn't say all presidential documents so maybe a manufacturing optimism but i think there is down for a command than a persistent believing there somewhere around this dilemma to look

and jerry is regularly to fit in despite interest in a continuing dispute over documents into committee executive sessions today the major interest was in the witnesses and what they had to say to help you saw things up and plan your evenings doing we once again percent and that hour by hour program of the high points of the testimony as hearing opens former attorney general mitchell has been questioned by senator daniel inouye a synagogue years that not as much happened to those involved with watergate after the election as mitchell had anticipated but mitchell who earlier insisted the president would want a thorough housecleaning one senior work was happening in says that the boom was lowered and mitchell rejects dean's testimony that there was a plan during the fall of nineteen seventy two to influence judge charles ritchie was handling the watergate several cents an hour is followed by committee counsel stand there it tries to determine how far major would go to keep from jeopardizing the

presidential election mitchell says he would've laid out chapter and verse if the president had ever asked him exactly what he knew about watergate but mitchell emphasizes the president never asked under close questioning mitchell admits that he approved the firing of watergate conspirators you gordon liddy he refused a request in march of this year but he raised money to pay off the watergate conspirators he was followed by a series of announcements by chairman levin about his continuing efforts to get the white house documents and says he talked to the president at midnight and arranged a meeting for the two of them his announcement was followed by the appearance of white house special counsel richard a more who says he told john dean at howard fans demand for more money in march of this year was pure black male at that point was in college deemed to tell the president all in the fourth are more admits that he conducted the white house probe into the clandestine election activities of journalists regret it and he

relates how being said john ehrlichman could be indicted for his role otherwise unexplained in the ellsberg affair more wasn't surprised or confused he says because the most often cryptic when he made such remarks another senator evan roosevelt deliberations of chinese education and then there's one question on the

question quote unquote twenty first the president of being with sean wess living for which that mr dean as dust fight that he never thought the president of susan lehrman molly you regulate derivatives on the following day we have testimony indicated that the president met with a high officials staff members of the white house including the city not trying to argue is that we would expect that president to have on john wesley being the third one the twenty second of march two testimony indicates that the postman designated as israel's on what this

committee is this facts were that there was a discussion of mr dean baim really is on what the committee to get certain areas for about what actually the president was doing to quote lower the boom quote i'm not quite sure that as we all know things happen for months for him in iowa i don't believe the steps were taken to the point where you could call lowering boon for the record could you tell us where the president has really low special prosecutor removing people from the

white house were involved in activities that was an appointment of a special prosecutor brought about because of intensive the show the vision in the united states resisted those who was the president's determination it was a long and made that determination what were the cause of that i think we can all have different opinions upon that it was his actions provide for the special prosecutor and in the case of all removals of those the record's mr erlichman submitted letters of resignation and the president bush reluctantly accepted this and said publicly that these you have to find as many seven know as this morning but it shows the street in the president the kindest most people haven't tried the job

before i think would be considered reasonable given the united states because you live in this country let's try to find where the president has said is learning all these activities low as louis and smile and says typically <unk> of maple and succeeding intervening period of time is done exactly what it should have done and lowering the boom by providing for the special prosecutor within our system of

government that's what chief executives that is the opposite of the one he advised the president is gone onto some parking near the outcome was removed but was anyone else remove mr hall literally word although about the moves they were not removed from the white house who reviewed public statement i submitted their resignations and the press and most reluctantly accepted this and im so accepting the resignations praise them for the highest proportion of saddam's to holman mr erlichman that anyone else up on the lawler noticeable nests are jobless i don't know whether other people that don't

come to mind in a moment but those who had been participants in the information the president were removed in the boom was lower mainly judicial processes going on under an independent special prosecutor there's plenty of disagreement but i have and whatever reason the lads find evidence of the moral of this moment i regret very much or that i just could not see much evidence of that's right well in the matters that are discussed we discussed never morning is a long room in the area of the prerogatives of the executive and you believe that with the soft or not the boom the lead would have blown all

their ads and i don't think it was necessarily so but that was brought by the socal remove it but two men in the washington post well it has and what areas you're talking about senator if you go back to our white house are stories i think they came out from other sources and the other times that i think very much a factor and the question

is and i'm convinced that if you know that without the color white house president obama taken to see that it also made life so it's an inescapable conclusion that's right i think that's a reasonable interpretations of hers and reflection it's a very serious one

but the wedding is a party in the nineteen seventies for ten minutes and that i have talked with findings that a number of times during this area we have never discuss the watergate matter or circumstance and answer your

question specifically with respect and that they that conversation are we did not discuss mr reporters just them on the seventeenth eighteenth at fourteen was that i don't have the elections no sir and murders image just a moment specifically because of that and we met with him

be consistent with this i think most the vast those conversations took place much earlier than they do in august that you've made reference to you let the jewels is the same specifically you know i'm scott simon

and so so much and testified before the commission would you not happened in on this testimony with one analyst and that's a sequence of events go that julie time on <unk> reporter owen to most departments of office and put together proposals testimony with that time they thought was going to be submitted to the grand jury in the position for him i think you know that was the middle of july and that was in that timeframe and then shortly thereafter the recitation of the smugglers testimony of the nature of his

testimony was given forty one i see i believe that what i believe most version of my memory serves me right that he was the parade by lawyers who advise me as doing just fine oh no now on september thirty

at just thought i really don't monitor the specter of the fact that mr dean the law rather briefly discuss the recollection of worry meetings that had taken place and that the system for years now number two that there were discussions of election laws which personable testified that were those were the essential parts viewers and after that

you made it it's quite conceivable is as i customarily the information would come to us from lawyers by way of the briefing rather than talking to the individuals and all we win mr many meanings

you know i do we are not eliminate the subpoena individuals members for many years the chain that there are not enough votes and of course there was as i think

has been put in evidence here through mr deans exhibit a letter from the justice department in which the preferred not to have such parents help us criminal case that was you at any time no sir and activities surely we discuss the impact that a letter from the justice department on the subject matter would necessarily have on the committee and its membership

you are think about activities that's right democratic national committee things that you wanted it was to limit the progress of the civil suits as much as possible certainly before the election we knew that

they would come afterwards and there's data civil suits occurs related to criminal trial which was subsequently i believe determined by the judge handling of and there wasn't a strategy to keep the cells of scenes from proceeding yes sir similar well listen whenever either let others in the majors in vegas in what strategies should be incentives that was the testimony beginning that the positions lawyers with the individuals

thank you you're right suggesting that the cia has the cia used to be going to the meeting that the cia might be a lot of person i think mr dean testified as testimonies ackerman i started out placing that my lips and wound up with a witness to my idea now this may be a perfectly honest mistake in his car there were discussions of course is that justified i think on the first day here about the questions was the cia involved in newspapers the individuals that were involved worked

for the cia or a number of such matters with the concept of the cia's supporting we're providing friends in connection with this activity was that discussed in my presence to my best recollection and that's given this version i might answer that because i think we discussed it on monday they meeting which most of being in places this conversation having me i never took place because i wasn't cities and none of those discussions about cia's that no surprise

the cia the cia assassins are many for baylor discussions are questions really about syria no you didn't testimony before this committee between you and the white house people and that it was not making any investigation of the worrisome present yet on august twenty nine the president did make an announcement

what was your reaction most of that sharp your question and provides an assumption that i am not willing to accept perfectly conceivable in my mind so far as the environment there's concern as jillian problem of people in the white house and i think that was the context of a statement of august whatever day it was alive disgust you i think this deal was making an investigation with respect to involve a potential involvement of individuals in the white house in the knowledge of the watergate break in a test patients

are they live here now the cover up was an entirely different family statement made by the president with respect to the involvement individuals in the watergate affair on the prior to june seventeenth that the conservative activists and i think that was the thrust of the state speech june seventeen nineteen ninety nine yes sir i can't say that for sure most of those needed

somewhere along the annual prime minister jean wilson the one what i think i would've been quite surprised that it come out that really made a report to the president you know most of the big lots of jobs in the us and after the president's statement an outlaw image that report yes it discussion naturally quiet informal what type of questions we did have discussions of that in the tournament he first had been discussing a matter that he had not specifically made a direct report to us but whatever information he was providing was going through haldeman ehrlichman for that wage is

being busy day that won't just as you are misleading the president after you're not a wave of them certainly they were the impression because mr dean was not talking directly to the pros and the president making that the united states and he made a statement as i recall having to do with the involvement people in the white house with respect to the prior knowledge or because they should in the wake of the democratic national committee and that statement it was factually true at the time that

he made that statement so far as the information that he had and i think possibly so far as the information i'm here because i believe in a strong man or roosevelt much later date she does i was a little white house that the white house more information about the state of your designated a white house this is not a religion

i'm a dozen decision back and schumer has nothing to do if you consider it so special the white house mr bess that had become quite widely known publicly or more people in jail early into an indictment there was a grand jury investigation in connection with the lincoln well i don't believe that that would necessarily be the case because it would come out but for the other stories have not come out

and we're not been discussed we're not alone and of course as i mentioned earlier it was directly in the white house is back at the campaign director of the president's re election committee yes rain certainly the activities that we just that was there and the second is quite different from i mean i didn't have that i only record an enemy of the fact that there had been a break in at the democratic national committee and with that says david and by some of the people from where the finance committee the president of the committee generally listen to many it's an entirely different

circumstance in your testimony ms niemann thank you you are as a teenager

and quite frequently there's no discussion yet any specific directions and examples no i would have to go back and refresh my recollection and so most of the murders or disgust over the specifics of the people you were just sitting and i was just going to move those fashions at a question and also in the decision making process i'm sure that there is a census would come out of the discussions in the

room and i would be a part of that consensus now thank you i think it says we need some money now it is the white house you did that distinction

well it isn't in the nineteen seventies and eighties factories the problems that arise if the big parties that have been involved in those activities in the white house were to come forward with all the conversations in all discussions and all the information that they had really i'm specifically in the parties that are the defendants and indictments there were participants yes roles

money money they're just bows and the implementation mr demas was reporting that mr dean as ive mentioned before its reporting but certain things but mr dean and i think quite appropriately was not telling me of everything that was happening in these conversations between he and the people in the white wine was this oh really i know

those customers on a need to know basis and not go through all of that which you would consider probably an attorney client relationship at all i don't think so he was alive as council president prepares to leave the work in a legal advice to other people i guess but you know what is that oil and workers are the losers has very little work of the local tribal council president white house counsel the wreck represents atlanta well that was his character a physician of the fact that matter isn't to my experience our research council over in the white house there's a

tremendous amount we were just interviewing the documents that come through there that have to be acted upon by the president of the people ms vivian a that timeless version for marketwatch and it was ninety and it was one of these other gentlemen have appeared on the scene through newspaper accounts and testimony they were not discussed

at that particular time there is hallelujah newspapers of the media when a connection with a affidavit that were falling ellsberg the plumbers i mean but the specific activities of mr crowell and others in connection with them were not known to me and later on his essay from me you know the quote i knew that i knew that he was one

particular activities i didn't learn well if in fact white house but i think the question came out yesterday it likely that he will limit incentive even the president of naral about the matter of that you know that this might take the lid off and a migrant reelection and he answered like his wife that you didn't do and i think that people are little awkward promo doing so

responsiveness and to walk into the effect that i believe folly those americans has participants that they would follow that course will lead and the necessity of any urgent now recent years singing the problem with that its contents that i recall the discussions have to do with respect to the facts of what happened or not because of that

fascinating as you remember all right a number of the employees of the president before the grand jury testimony or the fbi for this is always nice it was a combination of a sudden that a civil suit and yes in most common cause an

artist mother i know you're welcome along with that who was introduced him a buyer at mr marley stands and apparently mr mcfate has advised mr stenzel concert matters over a number of years and he was the only view is every chain byron assistance i'm not sure that mr spencer requested discussed with this group and with me a number of the problems it was

just fans was having in connection with the financial aspects of the campaign and litigation related to an allegation well at common cause the new factor to the civil litigation went very heavily into the question of course is where these checks came from and why they were in a look back in miami and la happened they for mexico yesterday us to hear more rapidly than we need you mr anwar a completely and one for the team and then there's a series of august twenty eight

the port the queen that's right now that's right

we need money money the plan the polls whitney

time on domestic battery and made his demands and medi with respect to disclose contributions which resulted in and later dave carlson the committee that's right mr solberg edition

i haven't to my ears that retained a theme that was just stands at great faith in him and frequently happens that and some of the discussions i believe that he would be doing that is frozen out winners asay that was about a relationship with this committee and mr stanza to go back over time mm hmm he

does you want to be it is lance

mccullers and on the line and people in the civil litigation especially the effort to get non discussions were now i mean alan smithee so steve is

that none of the thirty three tribune confirm the chair of the intelligence as too that's right these days special significance in the meetings so activities the major reason why mr mcveigh was an enemy

he was attending meetings of an umbrella over a cause mr stanton's you had been brought in by mr spencer is worried and i think he was sending in helping on the head first to stand centers on now you testified before the committee have at present several senators questions that you would've engaged in practically anything into well those to assure the president elect and wood wood would really the region by mail volume it limited too well i it was impeachment and the constitution perhaps i take it that

you also scoot merle although you have indicated they want to see in the summer people shot of the white house like this whether they actually do everything necessary to protect the president on his re election a bit to work a seat so that you did get favorable consideration of the civil servants diverged i don't think the fall ever heard that interview just put the question mark an answer in my opinion quickest way to get the opposite results says that while in some cases not saying that they're never been successful cases

his books in the criminal laws are filled with such activities it would have been my opinion it would've been absolutely non productive thank you he says that he's going to be with you but it was for fixing new jersey well i came into the midst of the current preferred use the word influence with just iowa there was never any civil litigation hamel of the first homeowners with the other two cases that were fall did you ever at any time on a wild representative his report on it whatever you know i've read that story in the

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