1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-05-22; Part 8 of 8

now move says and see was a sincere and believable walker coming from not very highest levels of the white house and among the reasons why i believe the commitment would be cut word that the white house officials with whom i was in contact or truly concerned concerned about the watergate burglary developing into a major scandal affecting the president and therefore such a promise would not be given lightly i told him at the white house

officials with whom i was talking were complaining because they felt that this was the only one of the watergate burglary defendants who was refusing to cooperate at no time on this occasion on any other occasional i recall telling us to keep silent the committee is taking a break for a floor vote on a pending banking bill what does john caulfield will still be tested on the committee members return and that's continuing coverage of the campaign activity series resumes up through this station identification on a bridge to coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member

stations of pbs the public broadcasting service it's

been crazy and pike continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent jim lehrer treasury department official john garfield now continues reading as prepared statement he's been visible actually that's one message that

a person's age and i told him that the white house officials with whom i was talking what point were complaining because they felt that was the only one of the watergate defendants was refusing to cooperate but not an investigation to keep silence in a grand jury or any congressional committees his response to my conversation with that he's the one of his immediate freedom and have felt strongly that if the white house have any interest in helping him secure that freedom that they could do something about that through calls which she was sure had been intercepted i told him i would check on this matter again

and get back to him i was not attempting to exert pressure on them or by telling him of comments i was hearing from the white house really i was attempting to let him know the kinds of things i was hearing from a spitting and signing the white house's attitude towards him if that would be of any assistance too later on sunday i telephoned must've been a report of my meeting with mr mccourt i told him that my opinion mr mccourt had absolutely no interest in the author of executive clemency i thomas tobin that this report was still adamant in his belief that the white house had the power to have the charges against him dismissed it would really pursue the wiretaps which he had mentioned the city

said that i should tell him that there was a much likelihood that anything would be done about the wiretaps situation and in response to my comments about the court's refusal to consider executive clemency he said something like well what the hell was you know anyway as the beans a native of optimism accord again and commiserate with him what he did not ask me to renew the author of executive clemency i guess but the reason why he wanted me to say mr mccourt again was simply to maintain a friendly relationship with him in case there was a need for any further conversation with him for me i probably would've met with him again anyway since i felt badly about his predicament and i consider him a good friend in any event on monday january fifteen a color code to report that nothing seems to be happening in a part of the wiretap

situation it became quite angry over the telephone and reaffirmed his belief that the white house really wanted to help them they could do so by using a method he had suggested and that he knew i wasn't going to be a government witness was going to perjure himself i also mention getting together with him but he said he had no interest in seeing the less than something more to talk to him about it was quite upset so i did not pursue the murder further on tuesday january sixteen bag and calls him an attempt to meet with him and he again was highly irritated about the white house's failure to do something about the wiretaps situation again mention as i said i would inquire further about the wiretaps and i might have something for him get weaker so subsequently i call them and arrange to meet with them again exact date of this

meeting being unsure my mind we've done that the outlook on the george washington parkway he got into my car and we drove out the parkway pursuing across in the general direction of warrenton virginia i have no specific recollection i would say that it was in iraq i would characterize this conversation as a very friendly one in which a large portion of that time was spent discussing their respective families how my job or the treasury department's going and various other purely personal matters i give him my private telephone number of the treasury department ansel him and i feel his wife never wants it wanted me to do anything for them they should feel free to call so mccormick that he gave he and his wife should decide to call me simply use the name watson and i would know what was frankly this was merely a device to save me from any

possible embarrassment i do not have a specific recollection i believe yesterday if he was really only one of the watergate defendants that the white house was concerned about i said that i thought it was but that i had no knowledge of what relationship existed between the white house and yet the watergate defendants he said that the cuban defendants were quite nervous and in his opinion might make a statement at any time and that i could pass them along for that was worth the pain but that was actually the white house doing anything about the situation and i asked him what he thought he might make a statement he said that he had not decided that yet but that he had spoken to his

wife and family and that he felt free to make a statement whenever he thought the time was right i get asked if there was anything i could do for him he said one thing that i could do was to see whether that money could be raised for him pending an appeal in his case i said i would check into this for the end of our conversation realizing that it definitely was going to make a statement on watergate burglary at a time of his choosing and that such a statement would in all probability involved allegations against people in the white house and other high administration officials i gave him what i consider to be a small piece of friendly advice i said was in effect jim i have worked with these people and i know them to be as tough minded as you're not when you're making a statement i would probably

do the same thing i later called mr bean and advised him an estimate puts request to bill funding and he said words to the effect that maybe we can handle up through all sometime later years of being called me and asked me but the bill moyers it that so many problems and that maybe consideration could be given to paying premiums i later called a part of the point of this his reaction was a negotiating with the new attorney and maybe he can get it handled this is the last conversation i had to date with james in court although this is a lengthy statement i wish to make too far the point that not timon any conversations with mr mccourt when i

apply pressure or threaten him and that tends to make him accept the offer it is one of the passenger pigeon but what was going on at both ends of this message transacting process i actively refrained from injecting myself into the process at either end i realize that the time of my first conversation in january that i was involved in questionable activity but i felt that it was important for me to carry this message for the good of the president i had previously testified before the grand jury announcement that on two other occasions with the united states attorney's office as open on two occasions as well with senate investigators although i discuss the matter of whether any of my actions could be viewed as violations of the criminal law with my attorney and have been advised that the availability of privileges

and possible terms of securing immunity from prosecution at no time have i refuse to answer any question and that's my plan that i have about that is more important that i be able to speak freely about my involvement in actions here an answer about what other protection might be rightfully mine under my constitutional and executive producers i hope that when i have to say here today will assist the committee in its investigations and if it is guilty of some wrongdoing i will still feel all the likely areas smell or expand chairman has been called for the senate because they didn't

pay on the matter now and then went to vote before he left the committee suggested that we conclude you're prepared statement today on the condition that you and you're turning overturning in the morning edition of loss of the committee and step can receive the interrogations et cetera committee will stand in recess until that includes john caulfield opening statement that history that begins with his birth and ends with his involvement in trying to convince james mccord to join the watergate team and go to jail quietly please other copies staple was filled with details there's no doubt that the committee will have questions for him particularly over the precise instructions white house counsel john dean gave him about approaching record caulfield returns to the witness stand hot city tomorrow with each new day of hearings

no departments of the government that poll and a widening investigation the one that appears to be found are in at this point and was the justice department the nomination of elliot richardson as attorney general are still awaiting confirmation tonight at the federal court house earlier today the reports of a prosecutor in the watergate case are also work might be stepping down to let the new special prosecutor rudy archibald cox takeover one is tonight as a man of a certain us attorneys office working with a grand jury here in washington delivering hall is now professor george town university law school no other problems that justice is as bad as they appear to be at this point after a member station there were nineteen sixty three attorney generals allen has been indicted no one has resigned and one is having a heck of a time getting confirmed so in that short space of four years and i would say so goes the head of the department

which you know it can affect the main thing on the very day operations of the main justice department and especially on the problems exist in the us attorney's office on the us attorney's office an industry is a lobbyist commissioner and forty warriors and the rovers mr silbert is the principal source of cement his number two of the two hundred and forty american during this to miami it would be a big mistake for him to do something with this time without prior consultation facts yet to understand one senator said it's been working behind closed doors and twenty three seasons and a federal grand jury in anonymous rolling over and watch what's going on and it was an interview with him and just trying to possible to discussions of grants immunity certainty what this is an all out and so i am of doors is as an awful lot of explosive material which are ultimately will come forth

it should the issue of that weight obviously and talk to mr cotton for him expect way no video the problems between the committee and mr silber in the prosecuting team of the federal grand jury have been developing for some timing for the hearings began there were stable step further calling of witnesses and that that they pulled an appearance at this point might work to the detriment of prosecutor the prosecution of people later there were also off this whole business community involving john dean which still has not been resolved sam dash of course who has the maturity council that saturday out in various interviews that they got the justice department was not cooperating by waving their their right what is a bill ten days plus twenty days and there's no reason for any different are as that means that you don't think about appear and logical sequence as it is with me should follow if your construction story carries you should

follow the testimony john caulfield that maybe the middle of a budget and before that can happen now what about this whole relationship between the special prosecutor and the existing prosecutor jane doesn't sound plausible to you that mr cox would go walk the existing prosecuting to step aside and let him step i think there has to be some sort of a meeting for ascertained from first an appraisal of where the three team prosecutors are right now are mr sommer mr lanzer mr campbell where they come from is not to say that a lot of this could not have been the route there they do more fairness in proper care since the break in on june seventeenth after row of had jurisdiction over this matter sends for almost almost eleven months and so i'm not i'm not saying the us attorney's office has been the circumstances certainly

i think the record lawyer abortion on march nineteenth to judge the record on the idea that they really begin to begin to understand that the ramifications of love with this what this cover up operations on a mask a quirky about john caulfield at incriminate himself today in any other well christie has an image are doing at this point in his testimony today liberating of a messenger boy and four and offer something of value to what those regarding his testimony and of course he alleges today for the first time in his own personal knowledge primary evidence of this can offer would be a possible violation of title a canine states code section two the one age which is i really was a federal district court now we do have to understand nobody yet has testified up there as i've been granted immunity or taken the fifth amendment

regarding religion self incrimination everybody who has ms testifies them family council and has been an involuntary long term or my opinion as a messenger i will for large what was being done that he could be charged as a major donors are not part of the prosecution or possible a possible co conspirator maybe any conspiracy case but i would think they'd be more interested in his testimony very well and the rain off like uber much like the first three days of testimony before senator ervin's committee have uncovered a trail of involvement at least to the top levels of the white house for a look at what the midterms may be revealed tomorrow we turn right after harry's vampire correspondent peter kay he was on duty in the senate caucus room all day here what's next will come my

backyard amount gm and mr caulfield will be back on the witness stand this time to answer questions from the committee counsel from the senators and so it's actually good for testifying and i suspect you'll be three by tomorrow we get to the man that he had to do the investigations and other former new york policeman anthony he loves the woods we're still find some pretty small fish here now we are still at the very beginning ran a low level of non policymaking level actually take the next big step up the line in that particular inquiry you listen to middle and higher level people at the white house and the committee and that's what it's really going to be interesting to see if people can balance her own personal involvement with what the committee is trying to go after so in your case of protection will say out turns out as you know and it erodes your reaction to our interactive are delivering stop us a line if you're so moved to do so what you say will influence what we do next time our address is an impact post office box

three hundred washington dc to a loaf or four that's ambac bach's three hundred washington two or all four four i will be back tomorrow night when our unedited hearings so much has happened that it is understandably difficult to summarize but one thing we did learn today as the president nixon is that an impossible the whole thing is resolved but the watergate behind me and concentrate on other aspects of government as you know that's what he said he would do in his april thirteen speech and that's what he's now finding difficult if not impossible john caulfield returns to the very small and so was robert macneil for peter kay an impact on joe moore thank you and goodnight from washington you've been watching gavel to gavel videotape coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities as coverage is made possible by grants for special events coverage from the corporation for public broadcasting and the ford foundation

and has been a production of unpacked and a vision of a greater washington educational telecommunications association so you really are only noon when is