1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-06-06; Part 3 of 5

fans reporting that long public television's coverage of the watergate hearings will continue after station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs a public broadcasting service fb the point

of it and pride continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities

you again correspondent jim lehrer at this point to enter his resume after lunch was senator baker beginning his questioning of former campaign treasurer hugh sloan here so open and forthcoming in your testimony and where great depression that from your description of description of others your cooperation similar harmony with those who have undertaken to gauge the effect and i believe that's michael porter would you tell me and many inquiries into the watergate situation

yeah raw produce an interviewer inquiry as to recall situations the us attorney's office intervenes russo and others for the committee to reelect president intervenes you have more than one enemy is there anyone else have been growing for years many insurance is different rumors that decision to the very civil cases only going to moscow center of the time on a number of occasions before she went oh well i don't mean to burn the record with the necessary protection but could you briefly

describe it the subject matter of several inquiries might be particularly interested in the scope of the interrogation again if you always the worst the investigation what was the first one through the early morning hours of june seventeen nineteen seventy two i considered an issue in this investigation began as an internal investigation my understanding was it was the room at that function within the campaign committee to receive that information the situation in general and this was as early as during the day on june seventeenth nineteen seventy two a move that that's listener it is not early part of

her week of that week following the break was that the first interview at relevant to the watergate affair would you tell us at this point on it was a very gentle as they would say he was restrict these inquiries into the air the looting murder and within the committee in a very early period at it was quite obvious i think everyone that the focus was on mr liddy and as far as any knowledge i had retained that would be in the area and wanted a turnover that you know whether mr rueda the previous information of his own about leviticus patient and it is there's an inmate is in part what was the nature of the inquiry that needs to ruminate on that he's jewish since it was seeking information from me and sort of a darkly

what they wanted the dimensions of that doesn't believe a mention this morning he came back and they said this is a very politically sensitive as you need to come in with a fork mr martinez that's going to continue mr martin right they acquire argue about yesterday's functions responsibilities in the committee i was a limit it just to the payments to mr levi i think there was a total awareness of mr libby's function at least as it was supposed to be at ueno inquiries or not the artist for the arcane financial payments to him but no question to put to you about yesterday's functions his involvement his responsibility for the watergate episode notes or what was the next interview

following martin interview which was the head was on the twenty four of june was prior to my departed bermuda this is from our interview america you again melissa i'm concentrating payments are also was the worst thing i think far more comprehensive approach to the gentle financial dealings that have been the case with history of what was the next episode one i sought out the mr parkinson and mr o'brien the evening of july sixth and that was the essence of their membership of the conversation that was approach where i need to advise them of the fact finding because they had not sought me out at that point it was in the face of a nine of a personal finance or having already been subpoenaed before the grand jury as a candidate this morning i felt was a

very severe problem that needed to be addressed and i sought them out in a park that information to what was the next time you were interviewed or have a conversation about the watergate affair i think that skip over the fbi and police or would you go to find that they couldn't tell us this point the extent of the year i believe that was in mid week in probably mid twenty first twenty seconds of june and that was a interview julian a question of whether i knew mr alfred galvan was here an employee of the committee they asked to have our records made available to them to check out those factors very brief and korean accent or any questions asked of view of mr mcgregor oh mr dino mr mr livingston for workers or anyone else except those people the survey it's also good that interview is whether we could identify mr vaughn as having been an employee of the night

no sir i never get any idea why the elements and pari mr ball oh no sir i didn't seem to be i limited to particular purpose they express a reason for wanting know particularly about mr mo they indicated the agents were there at that time that they had information minister baldwin had been involved in the demonstration i'm not sure they did identify where it was forgotten you know i ask you about the watergate break in the course of that fbi are not unreasonable much about as devout mr levy mr mccourt no money to accounting and i want ask about the hundred dollar bills or whether all defendants in the watergate trials were involved in the

illegal entry and the democratic national committee headquarters no sir it is a member of the fbi after they just were ever discussed any of this review of the the next occasion i had needlessly had with the fbi was following my resignation which i believe was on a friday july fourteenth of that and recognize that they were president my home on monday morning and every morning america when when did you resign on the friday july fourteen and the following monday which would've and the seventy five year term homelike more and each morning after the problem is senator was it a medication they were very much interested in the watergate matter i indicated to them that i sang i felt because there was a possibility of my for technical violations the campaign

or that i wish to be represented by an attorney for i talk with that i would be happy to cooperate with him at that point i was in the process of receiving a refusal than one attorney and it took me a day or two to get another and the league on the very heavily during that period until i did have an affair when you're an attorney when did you can talk about that are arranged like a picture it only it was never an independent discussion with the fbi they were president of the first time i talked to the us prosecutors' mr silver with a glance or when was that the pittsburgh this july twentieth july twentieth yes and tell us briefly what transpired in that interview with president roosevelt they are the substance of it was

in mr silvers awful president or myself of my turning mr stoner mr glanz mr campbell and i believe on corrective two agents from the federal bureau of the entire watergate matter what they could tell what i thought and when we we had going into session which we did not cover all the material and on one occasion i believe for instance the discussions about the road and so forth were recovered in a session with a day or two later we talk about the indication that mr mcgregor that huge girders that was covered in the second interview with us attorney and this was a matter for all the watergate defendants

there's never discussed before the grand jury service or you ask those questions to the us attorney's office yes sir i would i would say with regard to my grand jury testimony that i believe i spent about an hour before the grand jury have my best recollection is a proximate half of that time was devoted to the request that's shown how would you characterize it you can characterize the interviews you have with me us attorney's office and the fbi with a girl and searching the fbi in terms of the interviews i had with the us attorney's office they were there as observers i really have never been questioned by the fbi finding information that was available what are the responsibilities of

this committee if the final report ultimately on its findings and recommend if it chooses to do so provisions in the campaign expenditure electoral reform and a law and were to make recommendations on how such situations might be avoided in future presidential campaigns ask a few questions about that because in a strange way and i'm sure an unwelcome where you have become the nation's leading on this particular situation at least from the standpoint of firsthand knowledge wouldn't seriously or wanted to interfere at all with the conduct of presidential election of their own absolute statutory bar guest receiving contributions from a contentious portions nasr i think for individuals and the tactical implementation of

the law like myself oh it's certainly counts what we know here to do something at the internal workings of the financial side of an actual campaign do you foresee any difficulty that bridge you see any way that would hamper impede the orderly operation of presidential campaigns require that all received knowledge verses b gender other than yours as my understanding and i think of animators much without saying so it's my understanding that in the last several weeks before it will sell their virtual cart i've got many of a mortgage modification and it's been my experience for my own campaigns and another suspect that others had the same experience that maximum contributions verbalize two or three weeks before an election there isn't a presidential election yesterday tell us what

an accounting for less money this year long answer i think a person i handled six million dollars in a two day period was that before there were like i know this was just the article so i think that the the change of the campaign law and that produced a kind of deadline similar to an option before the election just before the election i was not there in this election center but in nineteen sixty eight years i would agree with that as a minister from your vantage point is one who has participated in two presidential elections are intimately involved detail you see any difficulty that might drag promised that after a moratorium on any contributions say for two weeks before the election

a natural it is difficult but not impossible to account for last minute money in time for last minute account is campaign disclosure legislation is heading to beneficial effect in the sense that the public knows that the public knows what the candidate spends money seems to me sometimes especially prior to the election if that will totally us an expert says because you think that would seriously jeopardize the operations no sir i think if any dataset is the final day would be looked on by contributor and i think what is producer of altar never ever i think that's true but it would be a better opportunity to report haven't disclosed didn't take into account where the election oh yes sir i would agree with that particular the new law where you have these detailed accounting procedure says you

do things almost essential under the campaign expenditures which went into effect on april seventh nineteen seventy two hundred which we presently are there is limitations as you know radio television on certain other categories categories of expenditure but there is not a total moral imitation of expenditures and presidents or other federal elections if that were to be the case if the united states were just that question maximum limitation on expenditures are the status requirements expenditures that the expenditures that not only documented encountered while they could not be incorrect there's the contributions could not be there's requirement that activision could not be received or expanding mr observations like male candidates say or two weeks before the election and there are limitations the total amount you can spend

unlimited to say you know three thousand dollars on an individual can give the fact that combination of circumstances would produce an unworkable situation on from the standpoint of financing of presidential or that are a lot of most effective curve might be a time when you look at the seventy two campaign started back in march of nineteen seventy one the two year period of activity a total spending ceiling is as could be working but i suspect if i find this kind of a situation that is unfolding here that may very well get to the point where the only way to fund a presidential campaign is through public funding and i think today in today's world the intertwining of the business sector with government with disclosure is going to make it in

no one's interest in business to contribute because every action after that will be looked at in my wildest imaginations and ever dream that i would sit here and have an argument with you about federal am and as my friends down barriers president can talk about from time to time there is the trial there's a question of financing political campaigns but just for the three producers of the small i have a great fear not only of the abuse of money especially a great fear of the federal bureaucracy taking over the electoral system we go next to my chair talking and alternative possibilities are tunes you have any other suggestions mr sloan on how we do it i'll provide more reasonable minds

can open and accountability on the financial side are certain what it did more than a great tragedies of this particular campaign is the situation of having one law in effect for a part of the campaign and the new law in effect and about it i think the whole campaign financing law is being judged in terms of aid but the conduct in this transition period i do it not believers in city the present law has been given a fair chance a professional fundraiser it's a great how and waited so it takes all the temptations the pressure i think most of us were glad to see it but having come in the middle of the campaign we still have to deal with the only rules exist at the time in your career i would like to see at least one more presidential campaign was

that now spans given a fair chance but i don't think it's that i think there's an absolute in its present form i think of all the abuses at least in terms of the campaign which i can address myself to a few local abuses are clearly related to the earlier career or this transition period i think it was made of abusing it was understood to be a contribution the post april seventh period and i'm not talking about these funds hear him talk about the general received i think our campaign didn't nine years ago i think i think it's a workable lot of like i would really i rather see an overall ceiling campaign and justin and here includes restricting to its are alike to see the chemical campaign restrictive but i think the great tragedies of the situation

the inability to look at the new law and it's working in a dispassionate sent one other line of questions that will take very long cover material in general and yesterday's council committee i'd like to know a little more about its expansion go of the knowledge of mr spanton mr mitchell the watergate operation him so for him to have that information so her aside from what i've read and there's been no direct knowledge mr spencer mr mitchell about the larger situation not to mr mitchell i met with mr mitchell only and on one occasion thats been referred to earlier during that week i traveled with secretary stand he had numerous conversations with as i understood it from what i could hear his end of the conversation presumably with bob marley and for the people who were understood the handling the

problem from the political campaign stands mr stanton was extremely defensive and all the conversations i heard it and says that and the conversation i heard he said to them that this is not the finance bar you guys have to handle it and you got to keep them away from sloan myself because we have nothing to do it you know i was talking about it making an assumption listener like a pretty obvious one and this was about the only issue being discussed to this point about arab tourism stands attitude our demeanor at that time i think he was angry he was upset with the political and the political side did you ask him what he meant as you can see the senators are hoping that you

slowly is going to lead them deep inside the operations of the nixon reelection committee and senator baker has shown that the committee is looking for ways to reform campaign spending was senator obama's turn if it happens to be as heart where you are tonight as it is here in washington you might like a chance to go to right now to get a refrigerator and back and while you're doing that we'd like to thank you for the overwhelming support you've expressed for this kind of coverage for your cards and letters to date we have had seventy thousand of them and they're running ninety nine percent in favor of this kind of gavel to gavel coverage in primetime if any of you would still want to express an opinion we suggested are to your local station when you're watching right now so drop the mccarter letter or if you feel like a check because local stations depend on you the viewer to keep them in business and on the air they're interested in your response as well as your health public television's coverage of the hearings will continue after this was a station identification

on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs the public broadcasting service the the

point from washington and it continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent

robert reich new hearings continue senator ervin's going every few slogans activities point by point seems to be looking for information about possible white house involvement in the watergate cover up with the sea wall we have an immigration law yes or no animal as their debate about the way the receipt of this

thing is they're in this transition period in certain areas but not in new york city right as a member of the budget committee they consider total expenditure of a campaign finance committee role in absentia to be to say this is all the money we can raise you have to set your priorities within those limits we were restrained factor on the political spending and you and you know anyway yes it

was really really really only yesterday was at the times like the one now many settlers over seven thousand dollars available to the committee to reelect the press which we're not all of that figures center approximately half a million was in terms of direct payments to individuals the balance at seven hundred and fifty thousand are was the positive impact you're welcome it's a question of timing center in a pre april seventh period of i kept all the funds in the state where my office some point after april seventh is the one we discussed your

movie of satan aren't chambers offers the reason for this being that in pulling together are records for the creative seventh period there was a need for access to my state which all these records by a great number of people so as purely mechanical transfer to another sacred as more secure and not as many people had access to you don't commit a message to the patient with the only because of the committee to reelect president over this entire period as four million seven i would say that my best recollection would be that probably never got above six or seven hundred thousand at any one point and i would suspect that would be just prior to april seventh because of the influx of cash want that look because it made only the nineteen seventy two hours that tepco are unsafe so positive by that would've made money

came in that made up that it was it would have been in the safe an article that work recording in excess of a million dollars it's a safe deposit box it was really funny he had general control over the authorization of funds whether he specifically authorized to make a cash dispersed when i'm not sure because the he delegated authority had moved mr mcgregor by the time mr levine and mr porter had just want to write to draw yourself on

how yes or the script to mexico yes sir mr comments instructions to be aware that mr michel would control all persons including own and the question arose interrogate you about and for oil do you follow sir it was dispensed with was kept advice on as i reviewed it with him when he assumed the chairmanship i reviewed all of the outlays of an ad that would probably be called roswell park maybe you

he acquiesced in the authority of others to draw it did not clear the individual items each got to make a bunch of money yeah maybe even a pro yes sir so i kept working book with me in the safe which reflected all the payments and they received contributions or cash contributions that they didn't receive any a distribution of those funds to whom and on what date june twenty thirteen

this was the eighties preparing the final record of the creators of the theory secretary stanton requested of me a single final copy recording these transactions that is one reason this nick apple would be for instance they would be i think that would probably would be less is a total one hundred ninety nine it would not list the individual states oversee it came to me that that would be permanent record of this particular in preparing that i was witness to come back to verify that the two hundred and fifty thousand figure whatever it was with him and i asked him what do you think is the appropriate distribution of these records and he asked me what were secretaries dance instructions that said he asked for a single copy final copy of it would be the permanent record they said fine i said i'm going to destroy the records i have i would suggest you do the same and just provide him with a

single copy request mr koc amo contacted by cnn and a with the exceptions so i do not know what yet another topic of records in the case the figures i have i did not feel i was destroyed any original information because i was in a report to contain that information sectors you have made a compilation of an eye on what your race records show that anybody else except those to help you on your resume records no sir they were destroyed on when thirteen years as ricky yes how do you know i know sir i have no

knowledge of what that he would use those funds or i would think that if there is a record you tap the source and it's a strong market he was in the white house working as a political a liaison from the debacle so all along and the committee was not used to that and he got you got was good but the three hundred and fifty thousand dollars a week at the character the white house it is certain that was taking the white house in an age of my understanding is that once the white house and will transmit the message but that money will be sent to the white house you were do you have any knowledge of how they interact with nato while they interact with and respect not only the two hundred

thousand and three hundred dollars carrot between pro and respectfully hundred thousand dollars four hundred thousand dollars give an estimated twenty thousand dollars to give mr mcgrew fifty thousand dollars i really did actually fifteen thousand dollars it is a record of an existence but in the process of preparing his final report secretary stands have instructed me to sit down with each one of these individuals where there have been multiple distribution to verify that figure i hadn't

existence in the hands of these individuals and the committee mckay most concerned about though that this was something that involves user and fall when you got all to continue these honest questions recently that with events and with you feel worse i'm enjoying it and you argue that almost and the cultural conversation within that out you had misgivings about given so much my disability without

knowing what the month would be useful the key three thousand would really trigger an entree restricted in my conversation sector is definitely a period of tremendous sum of money but this committee has no control over or accountability i did express the general concern that was what you will all right and when you make a statement i don't know as a matter fact made it made it not all about the mortal are grizzly of the libyans

i know well what about insects and how they were considered even pre april seventh ones and where things are not be covered under the new legislation but now yes i am yes sir and you try the problem was also a bit of a review committee offers an evening of april third album together an asteroid winchester brought into my office at an mr winchester i believe is the vice president and so corporations and you're wrong

government to government ms banks big if beak yes certainly these are accurate copies of the checks that the model is a lot of numbers and said his sleeve as well mr winchester this area

came in with a briefcase that to the best of my recollection terms of checks cache of these measures checks so somewhere in the neighborhood seven hundred thousand dollars and you know he said that from my understanding was that these were the result of a fundraising effort in the southwest and i know that's what it was politicians as an individual you catch one liners at a listing in the briefcase the total amount we get people the total amount in the previous individual named for associated with with one exception and now i'm oh

yes sir i think a lot of important wasn't personal checks from contributors you are to be wrong it's been there's a lot of

really committed religious beliefs and i do it nonetheless of interest and leave turned over to me and this was not they get the lowest prices that was not they did label in nineteen seventy two three days after the el nino you all into a secretary stands in giving out threatening only that it represented pretty simple you can make money at all one project so

excuse me in response to a presumably mr libby gave his advice to secure is that he did not specifically give advice to me it was represented to me that way by sectors the suspenseful you that there's now we're checking to see someone out on some circumstances by somebody or april seven map or even though it had we made it what was it circumstances positive that's what i understand that happened in center that they are certain it was not my view on the banking committee why maybe someone

from iran and the possibility of my humanity to tell markel i have no idea what do you do with it seventy four i didn't really get it can you the reason for the conversion of those jokes

attempts to comply with the spirit of the oval office for being in an individual's contribution and three thousand dollar and comments oh cripple senate committees but as those bank accounts had been closed out the only way to do this is by comparing it to catch and counting that catches a transfer as cash on hand me that he relied the press reported and i think i'm almost no actually now the summer i do not know any of the circumstances surrounding a positive id checks mr vargas account that was not my intent entering those checks over the lady who delivered it in response two

years i told i did not know i would check with our counsel is recommended way of handling this was a conversion to catch you offer at that time to handle the transaction for me it took until mid may to return those once to me in cash for wine is roughly twenty five hundred dollars penelope it represented mr mark mcclellan thank you and i believe you're

not that specific reference but the fact that these men have been found with a hundred dollar bills in their possession came out probably within three days of the first week i do not have a direct recollection of when that connection specifically was made to the bank you're welcome i don't think we do ah i don't remember that question to make an impression on new book was that you have all of your testimonial about new them up at

work the ball it's been enough but it was reported i do yes sir yes sir

and actually won well you do it very well up is not until after i read the newspapers or he made that comment to me before i knew of breaking bad in a conversation with about this was blue precisely the sequence when i was in the conversation below conversation and that week it could leave you on this will go and he is and that's true

when awake and you and only was investigating this now at western estimates and at that we are all sea and us and you're very welcome assessing risk of that situation no no oh yeah

fb the point right now if belgium thank you i'm not sure in all

fairness is not specifically have to see him i saw people out of feeling that he personally should know certain information whether it within limits not another one tokyo concern was so great that you wanted an opportunity to communicate with someone in the white house you'll miss it is a business at this point was it i commanded yes sir and you write that you were

i'm steve inskeep information did you think it was going to be your world seventy and

there's a tremendous oh really there was a major problem that specific area of money i think so suggested to me that since i work at the white house hasn't had a special relationship with a white house but personal problems he'd be glad to arrange a lawyer for me or c that i am a lawyer with regard to

his hearing anybody further information as far as he was concerned they didn't know the details and he is position personally would be to take executive privilege on this matter until after the levees that keep that was yesterday what people there think about that there should be an investigation this about the thank you assessors used the word investigation mr how

are you diminishing the bottom of a cave home of homeland and the thing with the ball somewhere because of la the same day that you had a conversation with mr robert martin and that they have the political ideas are and i'll give you don't question on behalf of the committee it was thank you among

others when you fb the poop was

you ready to do it they

need