The Exchange; Interview with Christopher Dodd

From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Laura convoy and this is the exchange. As Connecticut's senior U.S. senator. Our guest today Christopher Dodd is a veteran of Washington political battles but the current showdown over how and when to end U.S. involvement in Iraq could be the biggest and most difficult yet. Yesterday at a White House press conference President Bush called congressional Democrats irresponsible for their recent approval of bills that attach timetables and requirements to war spending. He said Congress knew full well he would veto these measures and that the resulting delay would harm U.S. troops. The president's strong opposition and veto threat show how handily the war has become a tricky and potentially dangerous path for Democrats. And Senator Dodd will be deeply involved in determining how his party walks that path as a senior member of the Foreign Relations Committee. But Dodd would like to shape U.S. foreign policy from an even bigger post than a Senate committee that is running for president. And in that quest has spent a lot of time here in the Granite State.

Right now he is considered a classic dark horse candidate no where near as well known or well-funded as the top three candidates have. Clinton Obama and Edwards. But as he told a New Hampshire audience recently the granite state has proved the conventional wisdom wrong before and it's his job now to prove it wrong again. Today in the exchange Connecticut Senator Christopher Dodd is here we'll take your calls is always 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 800 8 9 2 and HPR. Senator Dodd Welcome to New Hampshire welcome to the Exchange. Good morning. Good to have you. Nice to be with you. Thank you for having me on. Well and I want to just start right off the bat with your response to President Bush's criticism of Congress yesterday. He came full out. He said Democrats actions will quote delay funds for months on end war. Troops in combat in harm's way are waiting. Well nothing could be further from the truth. First of all before you get to the policy debate all of us understand and strongly support this administration's had a rather weak record when it comes to supporting our troops in the

field. I offered four different amendments over the last four years to make sure they get body armor in the field. However Don Rumsfeld telling the troops in Iraq you don't get the army you deserve you get the army you have. And certainly the treatment of veterans we've seen over and over again with reports of how people coming back from these theaters of war are not being treated as well as they should be in my view and that's responsible. The administration has not handled very well. So we're going to do everything we need to do to support our troops but many of us believe we should start redeploying our forces out of Iraq. I would do it this evening. We could start doing it. I think it's a mistake that we stay this no one who believes has been there for any length of time at all that there's going to be a military solution in Iraq. The Baker-Hamilton report drew that conclusion. Our military commanders have drawn those conclusions over the last several years. And the president seems to be the only guy left in town who still believes that there's a military solution to Iraq and the sooner he comes to the conclusion that the American people have and everyone else has looked at this the better off we'll all be. So I wish we were stronger on the issue in Congress quite candidly and the president is going to have to come to terms with this sooner rather than later in

my view in order to protect our troops and move on to the post Iraq phase and how we have a surge maybe in diplomacy and politics that will offer Iraq some stability and an alternative to what they presently are going through. Well and I want to pick up in a moment on what you said about you would have liked to have seen stronger measure but the issue at hand. Again President Bush is saying this delay is going to hurt the men and women in uniform who are on the ground now. Is that true. No it is not true at all. The fact is there's plenty of money in the pipeline that they take care of our troops on the ground. The president needs to come to terms with the fact that this policy is not working and it's not just Democrats who are saying this. The American people are saying it. I can tell you that many Republicans in Congress feel strongly that this is the wrong track to be on gave the president a vote this last time but will not continue to do so over the coming months. So the sooner there's an accommodation reached here as I say if I had if I were sitting in the Oval Office today I'd begin redeploying those troops out of Baghdad these densely populated urban areas we have literally dozens of militias operating the civil conflict raging in this

country that apparently they don't want to resolve and that we shouldn't be trying to be a referee over this. So the president I think will eventually come to this conclusion. But blaming the Congress for this is hardly the way to be going in my view. You ought to be sitting down trying to work this out so we can move beyond the military solution in Iraq which no one believes can happen. Are you saying Senator Dodd that President Bush is lying then. No because he keeps saying you know I believe he believes what he's saying. I don't want to believe otherwise but certainly he's wrong in those beliefs. His military commanders have told him that when I was in Iraq and this money will be there the money is there. And that's this. That's foolishness with they're talking about here the money is there there's no question about it. And no one in Congress is going to deprive anyone of our troops the necessary resources in order to conduct a proper redeployment of them without put them in jeopardy. I was at Walter Reed Hospital yesterday talking to two wounded soldiers there listen to what they're saying. When I asked them the question you know how are we doing here. The Iraqi people don't want us there. These these young men who are wounded lying there say we've done what we can do for them. They have to decide what they want as a future now. And that really is the

truth. They understand this. We've given them a great opportunity now. It's their decision to sense to decide whether or not they want to be a country be united as a nation or not. And then when you have 60 percent of the Iraqi people in a recent survey saying it's appropriate to shoot Americans and 80 percent blame us for the chaos in their country then I think it's time we recognize that this is no longer a role we can play in a very constructive way militarily if the United States does pull out Iraq falls into even worse chaos. What sort of message does that send or an image does that give of the United States to the rest of the world. The idea being that the United States sort of lit this fire didn't go well. So we're out and you guys are on your own and oh well if you end up killing each other even more it's hard to imagine how much more chaotic it could be. You've had two million people leave the country of some refugees refugees another million I think are sold less than that are displaced within Iraq itself. So it's hard to imagine things being much worse. And I think many believe

and I certainly subscribe to this that that our presence our continued military presence probably contributes to that chaos here and that the chance of them pulling things together are going to increase. It seems to me when they face the reality that they're going to have to work together. And if they decide not to do that then there was no military no Treasury big enough to bear guarantee them that we're spending $2 billion every week 2 billion dollars every week $8 billion a month in order to sustain this effort in Iraq. And one has to ask yourself where is the support. Where does anyone believe that this is working again. A year ago Jim Baker and Lee Hamilton and eight other distinguished Americans four Democrats four Republicans with serious backgrounds in this area said to all of us this isn't working. This is a mistake. Don't go this direction in December when the surge was being debated this military surge. When I met with every senior military officer in Iraq all the junior officers I talked to the non-coms there everyone almost without exception said this is a mistake that even the senior military experts said this is a mistake.

They thought it was wrong that they thought was a bad decision the surge. They thought that that was something that General Petraeus before he went over said more troops on the ground don't get you more security in Iraq. Now he changed his tune a bit when he took over the command of the place. But anyone who's been there for any length of time looking at this has drawn a very different conclusion so this isn't about Democrats and Republicans. This is about people who are knowledgeable who've been there who understand it and have told us over and over again over the last several years not in the last few days this isn't working. When you're told you would you complain to Nancy Pelosi because she's talking to Syria about possibly working out some accommodation where we might eliminate some of the problems that exist in Iraq. She's accused of talking with the enemy. And what kind of mentality is in control here today when you don't negotiate or sit down and talk with people who have a disagreement with. So it seems to me this administration is getting further and further isolated from the political community from the diplomatic efforts all the things that ought to be done in order to bring some stability some hope that you might have a better situation in Iraq.

I have a couple more follow ups for you Senator Dodd and I want our audience to join you too. They've got lots of feelings about this phone number here in the exchange. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 800 8 9 2 and HPR. Our guest did an exchange. U.S. Democratic Senator Christopher Dodd first elected to Congress in 1974 served in the Senate since 1980. He is running for president and in that effort spending a lot of time here in New Hampshire. Chime in today. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Let's hear from you your questions about what Senator Dodd is saying your comments about what the Democrats are doing in terms of the Iraq war. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Just a couple more questions about this Senator Dodd. Several conservative commentators and you know this as well as I do. I have just recently said that the debate in Washington hasn't caught up to the realities in Baghdad that things are starting to turn around and that the country is getting more serious about political reconciliation. Senator John McCain was in Baghdad this week. He said the surge is working. Things have gotten slightly better. What about that comment that the debate in Washington

hasn't caught up to a slightly improving reality in Baghdad. Well I don't know if you saw the follow up stories to my colleague and friend John McCain's visit to Baghdad when they went to that shopping center or the market. They had literally I think it was a company at least a company of troops I don't know how many Humvees helicopters hovering over them. The merchants when they left said this is what do you mean normal. They said there was no casual shopping. Yeah this was no casual shopping trip was it. You know we have these photo ops and these efforts to kind of paint a different picture. And the reality is of course that there are certainly pockets I'm sure in Iraq where there is some normalcy but when you have 2 million people who have left the country a million more who've been displaced. When you literally lead on an average 100 people are dying a day because of roadside bombs and suicide bombers in the country. Not to mention of course the casualties we've suffered and others with little or no hope when you realize that she is a killing she is in some cases and Suni's back and forth tearing each other apart here neighborhoods are just been decimated. They're ghost towns

because people had to leave over the violence that's occurring there. How can anyone possibly suggest that this is sort of getting better somehow here. There's no evidence whatsoever that that's the case and I'm not suggesting that our departure is miraculously going to create a different situation but it might just be a bit different. I know the continued presence of our military in those situations is not helping. We've done what we can do. I still believe there's a role if you wanted to some border security some training functions you could probably maybe help with remember they have 300000 people now in uniform in that country. And these young men I talked to at Walter Reed yesterday said that the actually the military guys aren't bad and they're getting better all the time. The Iraqi military they were very. One fellow said to me I wouldn't trust the Iraqi police he said as far as I could throw them. But the military they said they're getting better. So you've got you've got to have 10 divisions thirty six battalions 118 excuse me battalions in this. This to me it seems to me they ought to be enough people to begin to provide that kind of security in Baghdad and elsewhere for their own people and our presence there I think again I'm just repeating myself but our

presence there I think creates more problems and obstacles to achieving that stability. Let's go to the phones set up or down 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 Our first caller actually from Massachusetts. Richard's calling from havior Hi Richard go ahead you're on the exchange. Laura thanks so much. Senator Dodd thanks for speaking out. Five Guantanamo prisoners down there and it an hour a day in court and having a baby of course number one I wanted to thank you for that but so far as the troops in Iraq drucken me for a long night you might just mention what what I believe maybe is our issue. But Dennis Kucinich I think is the only one that wants to take the troops out of Iraq not just redeploy them to borders and keep stay in day or and training the Iraqi military and police. And also I believe he believes he wants to shut down all the military bases there and not have permanent bases and I think that's what the Iraqis want. They don't want to be occupied by. So I like to have you comment on that and I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Clear clear outline of what about the troops by the way Richard Dennis Kucinich is here tomorrow. Go ahead Senator Dodd. Well as I say if I start redeploying out of out of Iraq this evening I think we shouldn't be wasting time particularly in these large urban areas. I haven't heard what Dennis said specifically on this but my view is if they're certainly having some support for training I don't mind that either. The idea that that's the idea when talking about a few thousand troops will they be talking about to engage in some of those activities so that the total elimination I mean others may take that purist totally purist view but I think certainly our ability to help train people even provide some support in border areas where there are problems is a function I don't have that much difficulty with so I may differ with Mr. Kucinich. Congressman Kucinich on that point I appreciate Richard talking about the rule of law issue regarding habeas corpus. Let me just jump to that quickly here. Habeas corpus for the non-lawyer So the habeas corpus basically says that you have to be habeas corpus allows you to know what you're being charged with. You can't be held indefinitely by the

United States without knowing what you've been charged with and then have a chance to then have your matter heard. In the sense so we're holding people indefinitely without charging them with anything necessarily. And under a new U.S. court that's a complete you know we did it once back in the civil war. But other than that the denial of habeas corpus when you're being held by the United States is something that really moves away from the rule of law and this has been our distinguishing feature over the years we're a nation of laws and the idea that the United States would move away from that deprive habeas corpus to people as well as of course allow the reintroduction of torture as a way of soliciting information we want and moving away from the Geneva Conventions I think are major mistakes for very practical reasons aside from the ethical issues that are raised by those decisions. And that was part of the Military Commissions Act that was voted by Congress last fall and the problem practically the following Well you eliminate habeas corpus. Assume for a second people are actually involved in terrorist activities or plotting to do so. You want those

people apprehended tried and punished when you're going to spend two years in the courts now arguing about habeas corpus you'll never reach any conclusions with them using torture is a dreadful way to get accurate information. Anyone who's ever been involved in the process of interrogation will tell you torture doesn't work. Thirdly you put your own soldiers at risk. In this case if you're torturing them they may feel they have the right to torture your own troops. And lastly at a time we need to be building international cooperation to deal with the problems such as have in Iran today with British soldiers being held. It seems to me the world is walking away from you not joining you. And so for very practical reasons those decisions were very very bad ones. My father was the executive trial counsel at Nuremberg in 1945 and it's very interesting. And you know there were people like Winston Churchill and the Soviets who wanted to summarily execute the 22 defendants at Nuremberg and many ways you understand why these people are responsible. 50 million deaths incinerated 6 million Jews because of their religion. Why would you give these people a trial. Why would you give them a lawyer. But people like my father and Robert Jackson and Secretary Stimpson the Secretary of War argued

strenuously. No this was a moment when we can show how we are different than these people who brutalized human beings. And so instead of assembling a team of executioners they gave them the right to be heard at Nuremberg and it was very different it was unprecedented in many ways and yet it separated us apart from the brutality of the Nazi regime. That's clearly something that stuck with you. Very much so and it's it's a it's a moment of great of the world will be tremendously proud of the fact that we distinguished ourselves in that regard and to watch the United States in this remarkable group of people conservatives Republicans Democrats George Marshall others that constructed those international institutions in the post World War II period that have served us so well over the years and advance the cause of democracy and freedom in the world. Things like NATO and the United Nations system of the World Bank and the IMF. That really helped stabilize the situation. We're now walking away from we're tearing them apart. We will moved away from the Kyoto international global warming. We moved away from the International Criminal Court. Not that I'm suggesting we should have adopted everything they wanted to do. But when the United

States after building the international institutions walks away from the very things we constructed that's dangerous for our country in the 21st century. Senator Dodd I want to ask you another question about Iraq and then go back to our callers. Democratic Senate leader Harry Reid yesterday said he was going to offer a bill after the president's aventure expected veto offer a bill that would plain and simple and funding for combat operations after March 2008. As I understand you are the first presidential candidate to sign on to that. What is the what's the idea behind that bill. And is it going out a little too far on a limb there saying no more funds. Now you've got this is the only way I know to get the attention. I was disappointed last earlier this winter when we were offered what they call sense of the Senate resolution. There were message amendments. Elections have to be about something in the end and if it's only about messages then I don't think we heard very clearly what the American people were saying last fall when Iraq was the dominant issue. Not the only issue but the dominant issue in that debate. And again the American people are so far ahead of people in public life on

this question where they really felt after four years more than four years now we have done a great deal put aside the rationale for going in which was a mistake no question about it which you voted for. I did. And he said it was a mistake. You know I don't you know I made them before I'll make them again and I and I wish I could have the vote back. I can't. But you move on. I mean I had a sense that the more important debate. But that's not an insignificant one. And I respect people who want to make it a significant one. It's a question of what do we do from here. And my point here is that I think we've done what we can do every now and then you have to draw a conclusion that you're not contributing to a very good result. I think but what Russ Feingold and Harry Reid have suggested is going to force people to have to make a decision. You can't just continue to sort of baloney your constituents along here where you're giving speeches one thing and not being clear in your votes about another. This is going to make it a very clear line on whether you believe we ought to perpetuate this conflict and our presence in Iraq or ought to come to a conclusion a conclusion. So I respect this and have signed on to the bill.

All right let's go back to our callers. Again the number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Senator we're hearing from all around New England today. Our next caller is from Hartland Vermont derricks on the air. Go ahead Derrick. Hi. I haven't completely formulated this. We're going to introduce it really quickly by saying I've been against this war from the beginning. I think we ought to get out as soon as possible. But I also see the stalemate that we seem to have reached in the you're in between the Congress and the president. And I'm wondering if maybe it's some way out of this is to include in the bill something that I'm just making up called reverse benchmarks because right now what we've got is benchmarks which say unless the Iraqi government meets this criteria and we leave what happens if we were to say if it can be demonstrated that we were first we started off with a date certain when we would leave if it can be demonstrated that we're making progress. And this would be included in the bill and specific criteria then we would stay longer.

What do you think Senator Dodd. Well the problem with that and saying that I appreciate the creative thinking the problem with it is that I think every time we say to the Iraqis we're leaving and we don't I think they delay doing what they need to be doing. You know there was a wonderful analogy historically in 1789 Benjamin Franklin as the story goes was walking outside of Independence Hall in Philadelphia and a woman apparently apparently Mrs. Powell as the story walked up to Ben Franklin said what have you given us. Pointing to the building. And he said we've given you a republic if you can keep it in a sense. The analogy is obviously what we've done here is to give them an opportunity to be a to be a nation if they can keep it if they can do it. And so I'm worried that if we look like we're going to stay around even longer they delay in fact doing what they need to be doing and pulling it together. But Derek it's an interesting suggestion. Well Senator Dodd is it and I've heard many other Democrats say what you just said. Is it reasonable to expect the Iraqis to quote unquote do it given the violence. Given that the economy is shattered given that they were under Saddam Hussein

for 30 years is it really reasonable to you know kick the bird out of the nest. Well I expect it to fly in a sense the assumption that we can make it fly with our military presence there indefinitely is even more foolish. In my view if there's any hope of them doing this it's going to come because they realize they're going to have to do this in order to be a nation. And I think there's that concern. I don't believe that most Iraqis want to be dominated by the Shia government in Iran a Persian government here they've had a longstanding history of animosity toward each other going back to the conflicts they've had with each other moderate Arab states can play a significant role here they're going to need support doing to get back on their feet again. I just believe that our continued military presence there is posing serious obstacles to achieving those goals. I can't guarantee it's going to happen but I almost guarantee if we stay there indefinitely will never happen. Well and a political question for you Senator Dodd again we talked about this Harry Reid bill to say no more funding after March 2008. How many other senators do you think are going to sign on to

this thing again given the deep concern that we don't want to look like we're abandoning our men and women in uniform. But we're not going to abandon them again. I make this point over and over again I guarantee you that what we're talking about here is changing the policy. No one is going to leave a soldier sailor Marine and airman in jeopardy in harm's way in a theater of war that's not going to happen. You can walk and chew gum here. You can oppose and stop the policy the funding of the policy and guarantee that your troops as they're being redeployed are going to get all the protection all the support they'll need. So they're just going to be pulled out. And then you won't have to worry about them being harmed on the ground because they won't be on the ground anymore. And obviously it takes time to pull out you've got 130000 people on the ground here. So it's going to take some time to do it. The bill lays out a year for this to begin and to conclude at a certain date. And that's going to make people have to make a choice. I know people don't like to have to do this but you have to vote yes or no on this and we'll soon find out where people really are on this issue. All right. Our number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 889 to

NH. That's the number for you to join us today. Our guest is U.S. Democratic Senator Christopher Dodd. We'll be back after a short break so stay with us and stay on the line. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 is the number for you to call in. This is the exchange on an HP. Support for New Hampshire Public Radio comes from you our members from Trumble Nelson construction company of Hanover building a managing successful commercial residential and institutional projects for northern New England clients for 90 years. Te dash and dot com from northeast Delta Danto providing dental benefits to businesses of all sizes and individuals throughout New Hampshire Maine and Vermont. Information at 805 3 7 1 7 1 5 and Birken associates in Manchester. Intellectual property lawyers protecting

ideas that make business grow and New-England hand around the world online at an age patent law dot com. More with Connecticut Senator Christopher Dodd on the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. Then at 10:00 on the Diane Rehm Show on reporter Martha Raddatz talks about her recent trip to Iraq. Winter storm watch in effect from about 2:00 this afternoon through late tonight for most of the state to remains in effect till 10:00 tomorrow morning in the north country this is the exchange on Laura Conaway tomorrow on the exchange presidential hopeful in Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich. We can find out more on our Web site and HPR. E-mail us your thoughts before the program to NHP yard. Today we're talking with Connecticut's senior senator Christopher Dodd. Again running for president as well and Senator Dodd. I want to turn now briefly before we go back to our callers to your own campaign. People here are just getting to know you. Give us a sense Senator Dodd of your politics. You told Bloomberg News that you were a Sam Rayburn Democrat without prefix suffix or

apology. Well yeah look I've been almost any election cycle if I started the conversation by telling you I had 26 years of service in the United States Senate that would be a disqualifier this time around. I think people want experience. We've been through six years of on the job training with George Bush. I think people realize what a mistake and a disaster this has been. I've spent 26 years in the Senate building coalitions taking democratic principles and making them national policies. I authored the first child care legislation with Orrin Hatch of Utah a very conservative Republican. I wrote the Family Medical Leave Act. Fifty million Americans have taken advantage of that where you can actually keep your job while being with your family during the joyous arrival of a birth adoption or during a family stress of an illness. Did that with Kit Bond and Dan Coats conservative Republicans. But it was a democratic principle made it national policy have done that all across the board on various pieces of legislation whether it was El Salvador and Central American issues back in the 80s. Election reform issues dealing with financial institutions right

here the Banking Committee dealing with credit cards and subprime lending. My point being that I think we need experience that not only has a strong set of principles but knows how to bring people together. We are so tired and cannot survive 51 49. We're divided as a people and we all know as Americans this is unhealthy. We need national leadership that's not going to divide but really do bring us together many of us hoped at the outset that George Bush might do that he called himself a night or not a divider. And yet I've never seen anyone as divisive during my public life and over the last 25 30 years as this president has been where he really has been the sense said you know we won. It's our side versus your side. And I think that hurts in this country terribly. We need to have national leadership that can bring us together give us hope give us competence and understand that an awful lot is at stake. We've squandered so much over the last six years terms of our national wealth and treasury our reputation globally is suffering terribly. I was in the Peace Corps back in the 1960s and that was in the National Guard and Latin American the Dominican Republic. And I remember I'm old enough to remember when Richard Nixon's car was

stoned in Caracas Venezuela in the late 50s and then watching 24 months later when we elected a president whose picture still hangs in huts and hovels all through Latin America today. So I believe it is reversible. This reputation I was saddened to see how an American president was received in Latin America two weeks ago three weeks ago where he almost had to hide out in Latin America losing a public relations battle. Hugo Chavez in Venezuela came back to you. Senator Dodd. Again we don't know your or you if you put your politics on a bumper sticker What would you be would you be progressive Democrat in America. The true blue an American first and foremost I'm a Democrat but people will wake up in the morning saying I'm a Democrat or Republican I'm a conservative I'm a liberal they get up in the morning and they wonder whether I got a job. Imagine if you'd worked at Circuit City over the last couple of weeks with 3400 people were told they were no longer needed there because they didn't like their salaries they were getting That's 70000 people that's happened to so I am a Democrat. And historically one has been a pro working family pro working individual pro union over

the years. Care about those children senator in the Senate. Often every major piece of legislation on Children and Families. And so I don't like to get branded by people I know they want to do that it's easier for people. But I but I when I when I'm for a pay as you go budget is that a liberal or conservative because I believe we ought to be doing that when I stand up and fight for veterans is that a liberal or conservative I fight for children what what box do you put me in in that category. I only liberals who fight for children I don't think so. Only conservatives I don't believe so. So I don't like the branding and the labeling the two people want if you want to gauge it they want to know whether or can you get the job done. Can you bring us together can you lead. Can you actually do something about health care and education environmental policy that people have only talked about for the last 30 or 40 years. Let's get something done in this country. I've got two young daughters a two year old and a 5 year old that more than anything else has motivated me about wanting them to grow up in a country in the world a lot safer than the one we're going to leave them if our generation doesn't get to work and we need to get to work today. Senator Dodd How are you going to make yourself stand out when

the so-called rock star candidates Hillary Clinton Barack Obama gets so much press so much attention drawing thousands of people to their events here in New Hampshire. How do you stand out in New Hampshire give someone like me a chance. This is a state that is historically like to prove the national pundits wrong. And I go back and look at races in the past here where someone who was hardly on the radar screen even a few weeks out not to mention 10 months away from the first caucus or primary. Someone was pointing out to me that in 1991 late September early October Bill Clinton in New Hampshire I think was at 2 percent in the polls ranked 6 among likely nominees and ended up winning of course the nomination didn't win here came in second to Paul Tsongas in 1992. John Kerry who I served with mentioned we just traveled to. I traveled in December to the Middle East with I think in December of 2003 was at 4 percent in the polls a point behind Al Sharpton. Many thought his race was over with in New Hampshire in fact he was 22 points behind. I think in December Howard Dean went out and won in

Iowa the caucuses and came here and swept and won the primary. So when people tell me in March or April you have no chance. They have no memory. I believe this state will give me a chance to be heard. People are showing up there listening. I understand the distinction between a courtesy and a and an interest in a candidacy. So while other people have better name recognition today and I understand that I believe I have a very good chance of winning. We've raised $9 billion in the last 21 weeks. We have seven and a half million on hand that can help me raise and I'll raise I think another roughly 20 million over the next next eight or 10 months. And that will allow us to be very competitive in this state and in Iowa in South Carolina Nevada we have very good people on the ground. And Joe are very involved in our campaign and others in this state. We have a total operation working in in Iowa with a full complement of staff there as well as in South Carolina. I want a straw poll in South Carolina the other night in New York County in that state. Now I'd like to suggest it was an overwhelming

number of people but nonetheless all the candidates have been there. And the guy from Connecticut New England did pretty well in South Carolina. He briefly briefly ask you about the guy from Connecticut. Before we go to our callers. I read a quote from somebody here in New Hampshire who said Senator Dodd you know you've got all sorts of good things going for you. The problem is you are quote yet another New England Democrat. In other words we're remembering John Kerry who didn't win. And we're remembering according to this man Dukakis excuse me Dukakis you didn't win I mean how do you get are you going to deal with that. Oh gosh another New England liberal. Well why do people say that about Southerners. Jimmy Carter couldn't win reelection or that Al Gore didn't win or we won a popular vote but didn't win the national election. This is not about where you're from it's about where you stand and what you believe in. People want to know whether or not you're listening to them. Are you paying attention. The most important question Laura you'll ever ask me or any other candidate who seeks your vote is a question you won't even articulate directly because we don't know quite how to ask it. But

the question is the following. Mr. Mrs. candidate whether you're running for the city council the presidency. Are you listening to me. Do you have any idea what I'm going through. You know what it's like to raise a family today or worry about losing your job or not having health care. I want to know whether or not you understand that. Are you listening to me I know you want me to listen to you but I want to know when you're listening to me and if I get a sense you are then I'm going to listen to your other ideas on how to solve problems if you don't connect with me on that first primal level that I'm never going to be for you. And that's really what people talk about they disguise this by saying well he was from a part of the country had the wrong accent or had the wrong branding. What they really want to know is are you listening. Are you paying attention to me. There's a great story about Franklin Roosevelt at his funeral procession that I've told a number of times and a reporter is covering it interviewing people and there's one guy more grief stricken at the funeral procession than others he assumes the guy knew Franklin Roosevelt. He says How well did you know. He said I didn't know him at all. He said Why. Why assume grief stricken he said I didn't know Franklin Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt knew me. And I've always said to myself at the end of my public life that could be said about me that my

constituents felt I knew them I was paying attention to them. And that's the best monument that could ever be erected in your name. So I believe that very strongly about understanding who people are. That's what I've done through eight elections in my state been elected five times by the people of Connecticut to be their senator. And I hope the people in New Hampshire will give me a chance to be heard. Let's go back to our callers to Wolf. Chris is on the line. Welcome. Chris go ahead. Yeah I just said first and foremost you know you are an American and that's kind of what's really important to you. Yup. I'm just kind of curious how you you know say you were elected president as well how would you establish something where people would feel proud to be an American. Because I know that all over the globe people do not like us anymore. And I think that's a real big problem. I think Senator Dodd Well it is a huge problem and it's you know I think the same time people also will tell you that they want to see us lead again. They realize that we're the only country today. Maybe others will emerge and some future century but today the one country that can make a

difference that has made a difference is the United States. And so while they're disappointed in our leadership today because we seem to be walking away from them not respecting them not listening to them that we're suffering as a result of that at a time when we need more cooperation than ever before. If we're truly going to defeat the threat of terrorism which we must it's going to require global cooperation. We can't do this alone. So they need to do things like listening to people getting back to that table even though we disagree with some of the things they want to do. People want to know that you that you're being respected by other people paying attention in the sense of inviting people to be a part of an issue larger of themselves. I've been asked a million times why did I join the Peace Corps back in the 60s. Very simple answer I've given over the years because someone asked me to. There was a national leadership in the country that invited us to be a part of something larger than ourselves. So many of my friends would often join Vista. I went to the Justice Department. Got it right in the civil rights movement or worked with at church groups in the community but you had a sense that we all part of a team working to make this a better place. And it was very exciting to feel a part of that. I can still remember it as if it

were yesterday was 40 years ago. I don't think we've changed as a people I think our leadership has. When was the last time any one of us were really asked to be a part of something larger than ourselves. And I believe that's what I thought that's what I would do as a president to invite the country on energy policy environmental issues to reach out to world leaders to talk to them not just I want their vote at the U.N. but to get to know them get to know who we are. Invite people to join the Peace Corps and visit again get people to join the diplomatic corps to be engaged in the world in which we live a bold engagement in the 21st century. That's what's needed here. We're going to have success in developing these these these levels of cooperation on world economics on world peace on disarming from the proliferation of weapons that exist all over the world. That kind of leadership I think could bring us together as a people. Senator Dodd I know you have to go and I'm going to get in trouble with Concord High School if I don't let you go and ask you one last question. Yes. New Hampshire Democrats have seen several promising candidates drop out long before any votes have been cast. Mark Warner of Virginia Evan Bayh of Indiana Tom Vilsack of Iowa. How do you Senator Dodd approach the decision

of when to stick it out and when to call it quits How do you weigh that. Well we're sticking it out. I've come up headquarters here in New Hampshire the next few days got headquarters that I would pay the rent for a year here and we've raised the money in the first two quarters people didn't think we could do that. Seven and a half million dollars on hand. I know it doesn't equal large amount says but nobody has done nothing but money is going to decide this race. I mean look you've got to have a certain amount to compete. But after that people in New Hampshire want to know where have you been. What can you do. Give a great speech is one thing. Are you listening to me. Do I hear you say what you want to do tell me what you've done is well I want to know this experience behind this. Why don't we can bring people together to get the job done. This is a state I think will listen to me over the coming 10 months. I'm going to live here. Basically people are going to get to know me and at the end I believe I'm going to win New Hampshire because what I want to bring to this campaign is experience is committed leadership is proven ability to forge those relationships. People will ask me is this campaign about hope or experience. I think it's about both. I think we want to be hopeful again. But one hopeful

that something can get done not based on a speech you're going to give but demonstrated to proof that you know how to do this. So I'm going to be here for the duration. We're going to be in New Hampshire. I'm going to win that when that primary in this state. And I think New Hampshire if you give me the chance to do so well I guess we'll see you again. You'll see I'm going to be here a lot on and I'll be back. All right. Well I know you have an event at Concord High School. I appreciate you joining us this morning. Thank you very much for your time. All right. We turn now briefly to a new development in the presidential campaign the release of candidates fundraising reports. And joining us now with that information and some thoughts on what it means is Jennifer Donahue senior adviser for political affairs at St. Anselm college's New Hampshire Institute of Politics. John Donahue always good to have you. Thanks for your time. Thank you Laura. Good to be with you. Well before we get into specifics I want to just follow up on something that Senator Dodd just said he said Look Lord this money isn't going to decide this thing. What do you think about that. Well I think to some extent he's right. It won't decide it. And we know

from the past that it doesn't how. MCCAIN The now President George Bush by 19 points in New Hampshire in 2000 with $17 million roughly to President Bush's hundred million. So you know money doesn't buy a nomination. It does though buy you the ability to stay in the game. Hire staff advertise on television some of the bigger states and also in New Hampshire where Boston Market is also expensive and gets used and it buys you the ability to events have ground operations and staff. So it helps but it's not the whole thing. It helps but it's not the whole thing. I mean I think what was significant in the other numbers that came down a lot of that was the numbers that came down on the Republican side with Governor Romney coming out with $23 million for the first quarter. Giuliani with 15 million.

McCain was twelve point five million. And now news that he's reshuffled his fundraising staff. Those numbers are pretty astounding. And I think show vulnerability in the McCain camp. Now again that's not something that can't be corrected or changed. It doesn't mean Romney is going to get the primary or the nomination. It means that he has enough money to go forward confidently and he got some earned media out of that success that was somewhat unexpected. Well and you're getting into what I wanted to ask you John is just how important then are these numbers the candidates certainly seem to think they're important. They've been trumpeting their fundraising results all week they share a house and it can that it's you know Romney gets a boost out of this. He showed unexpected strength. And that's always good when you can instead of having to meet expectations the way frontrunners like McCain and Hillary Rodham Clinton have to do. If you don't have to meet a really high bar to look like he

succeeded then you surprise people and he's surprised the voters in the press. And you look like you pulled something phenomenal last. And so it's Romney's number that's making Giuliani and McCain look bad on the Democratic side. Hillary Rodham Clinton as you know a respectable 26 million dollars. And I guess with Obama indicating his campaign that he's made upwards of 20 million. You know that reflects what we're seeing which is a competitive race on the Democratic side with donors and activists picking and choosing making decisions about who they're going to support especially in the early kings of the primaries. And then you see Senator Edwards you know holding his own at $14 million. And also in the polls with the WMUR poll that came out yesterday it's showing a very fluid and competitive race on the Democratic side of the aisle particularly how do the new financial numbers affect the way that the candidates campaign from here on out.

Do they discourage some people from continuing Do they add fuel to those who seem to do well in this so-called money primary. I think it's hard to separate the money and the activists. One of the things that early activists look for people up here who might be looking at on the Republican side for example Romney versus Giuliani versus McCain. I think that if an activist and an early organizer liked Romney this may make them say you know what he can he can actually execute. So it might encourage some of the candidates to get people like that now on the other hand. There's another aspect which is Senator McCain now comes to New Hampshire more because he has not been here as much as Romney he's only been here a couple of times now. If he starts focusing more on the state you know he may get back some traction. But I think also underlying this is the fact that if you look at who made the unexpected amounts of

money they are people who didn't vote on the Iraq war. And I think that candidates who did vote on the Iraq war. Right. It's the non Senate candidates or Senator Obama who didn't wasn't in the Senate in time to vote on that war. So I think one thing you might look at and especially in relation to the poll numbers where the Iraq war is still you know topping the charts in people's minds at 69 percent in terms of what they care about. I think that could be a relationship between candidates who are independent of that vote and who people are looking at through fresh eyes and other candidates did take votes and have had to take positions because look at whose numbers are somewhat surprising. Well it's surprising that Senator McCain has lost some we thought he would. It's surprising that Hillary Clinton is so close in fundraising numbers to Obama. So I think that may well be a factor.

1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 is our number we've turned from Connecticut Senator Christopher Dodd to the broader numbers that were just released this week on how well the presidential candidates are doing in terms of fundraising. Jennifer Donahue would say in some colleges New Hampshire Institute of Politics is with us and if you have questions about this primary fundraising it's impact on the race you can call in at 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 800 8 9 2 and HPR. John I wanted to ask you about Senator Dodd's fundraising since he was just with us today. There was a note an article on Political Wire dot com considered a relatively reliable reliable political source says that Senator Dodd and his inner circle advisers are disappointed at their fundraising goals and that they had hoped to emerge as the leader of the so-called second tier Democratic presidential candidates. What's going on with that so-called second tier Senator Dodd's Governor Richardson Dennis Kucinich

and others. That's a great question. I mean the truth is I think Senator Dodd has actually done pretty well in getting early activists in endorsements. He has chokey on his side and the former New Hampshire Democratic Party chair who ran who's run for office himself and it's really a very very not after adviser that that's a big get. Yeah you have Richardson and Dodd you know and it's not having that much money but look at what's happening Senator Dodd and Governor Richardson are here this week. Senator Dodd on your show today traveling the state Richardsons here today will be here tomorrow. And if you look at the calendar going forward as much information as you can get you see Rituximab dad of all the candidates in the race and even two Senate seats up here this trying to use the state as a place to kind of camp out and do the

traditional grassroots campaigning in New Hampshire. That doesn't necessarily require a large expenditure of money. As you know no one's going to buy in New Hampshire. And actually a lot of fund raising doesn't help you get that grassroots support that these guys clearly want to tap into and that that is more effective spending time here. So it almost seems like there's two strategies. One is the Hillary Clinton Obama Edwards strategy raise lots of money cover the country and the other is you don't have as much money so focus on New Hampshire and Iowa and cross your fingers. Exactly. And neither one works in its entirety. You have I mean if you're the candidate with a lot of money in here Hillary Clinton or you're Obama. Yes you'd better stop in New Hampshire and make sure you have a lot of friends there and they're doing that. And Romney and Giuliani as well. But you know as we know many people have made a strategy of camping

out in Iowa or New Hampshire pulling a surprise calling an upset. We've seen that time and time again from Pat Buchanan beating Bob Dole in New Hampshire in 1996 to McCain in 2000 beating George W. Bush numerous numerous numerous examples. The state still works that way and the states still open to people without a lot of money. You know after all it wasn't long ago that Dean built a base here before he got the money and then the money came in. But John McCain and Buchanan both lost the Republican nomination ultimately. That's a very good point and that's why if you do cherry pick and only focus on the early states especially with February 5th looming very very large this race may be different from others. And the reality may be that if you're too underfunded there's nothing you can do between our primary and February 5th. There may be a tighter window than we've ever seen before and that really does hurt the second tier. There's no way to dress that up.

You mentioned second tier Democrats what about the second tier Republican candidates Mike Huckabee of Arkansas Tom Tancredo Colorado Tommy Thompson of Wisconsin. How about them. How are they doing fundraising wise and campaign wise. Well it was interesting. I mean Huckabee who's been here and has been a presence in Iowa as well on the race 500000. Well it's not much not a lot at all. Must have been a disappointment to them. And I think you know a lot of suffering going on on the Republican side. And I think it's really not clear how it's going to shake out. You know and Thompson getting in sort of the old school Republican. And clearly there may be some room for that in the field. But you know the one who really got a boost is Romney. And I think it's too soon to say where that's where the lesser known candidates are going to shake out. It could be that so much money goes to the top so quickly and now with aggressive pushing to get the rest of that money that you know that it makes it even harder for the lesser known candidates to get

traction. One last post topics inside I'm sorry and one last question for you Jen. Pretty much everybody came out with their numbers this week. But Senator Obama how come he didn't release his numbers isn't there a deadline where you have to give your numbers. Yes. Yes. But he's going up to the deadline because he's shown us both and the way he announced that he was running for president and pretended to announce it at the Chicago game where he said I announce that no I'm not running for president. This is definitely a candidate who knows how to build suspense and you can bet that means he's got a good number to report. Or they wouldn't be trying to get people to focus and wonder and wait. And so that's you know basically I think a sign that you really can't call right now on the Democratic side a front runner on the Republican side either on the money race nor in the message

race. I think that things are really going to continue to shake out and there's a lot of movement. All right well John Donahue good to have you and thanks for your time and your words today we appreciate it. Thank you Laura. Jennifer Donahue senior adviser for political affairs at Saint Anselm colleges New Hampshire Institute of Politics and the primary politicking continues tomorrow in the exchange when Ohio Democratic Congressman Dennis Kucinich is in our studios. And I would like to know what issues are most important to you during the presidential primary campaign. We invite you to visit our Web site and HPR dot org and click on the public insight link to share what you know your insights will help inform our primary coverage as candidates like Senator Dodd like Mike Huckabee and the others that have been on this program come to the Granite State and HPR work. Click on the public insight link. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. The producer tied for the TV engineer Dan COLGAN or in turn is Ellen Ratner. Theme music was composed by Bob Lord and performed by the

group dreadnaught the exchanges executive producer Keith shields and Laura Conaway. Yes. Yes. Yes.