President Clinton/ Newt Gingrich Town Hall in Claremont

I have my own blog. Are you happy. What a moment. Only in Claremont New Hampshire. Could this happen while you're standing please. A standing round of applause for the Stevens High School Band. They've been practicing day and night. At this particular time. I would like to also recognize someone who has worked on behalf of the senior organizations for many many years has been one of our greatest supporters. Jim

Schmeling from the National Council of senior citizens would you please. Standing round of applause. Ladies and gentlemen would you please join me in welcoming the president of the United States William Jefferson Clinton. Thank. You very much. Thank you. Please. Thank you very much Lou. Mr. Speaker. Governor. Mayor please. Congressman Bass. Mrs. Gingrich Mrs. Alef. Sandy Osgood and to the Stephens high school jazz band Thank you very much for keeping everybody entertained while I

got away from Dartmouth and got over here. I am delighted to be back in Clermont again. I have spent some happy days here and I was invited to come here as you know when your folks found out. I think it was actually lose idea. Found out I was going to be at Dartmouth giving the speech. And then I was interviewed and someone said Well the speaker is gonna be here for a whole weekend. What advice would you give him. And I said well I'd give him two pieces of advice. I think he ought to he's going to be in Concord he ought to go down to Mary Hill's grocery store and talk to her because she's a wise woman and he ought to do one of these little town meetings like I did from time to time. And so he called me and said I accept. So that's that's how you became transformed into this. I'm going to talk for a couple of minutes. He's going to talk for a couple of minutes then we're going to spend most of our time just answering your questions. But let me be very brief and say that when I came here in 1992

I was running because I thought we ought to change the direction of the country. I thought that we were in danger of losing our standard of living and that we were coming apart when we ought to be coming together. I was worried about the decline in middle class incomes the growth of the underclass the high unemployment rate at the time an exploding deficit a declining level of investment. I was also worried very much about the breakdown of our families the number of children growing up in poverty and the whole breakdown of of a lot of the social factors that are very important to all of us and made us what we are. I said then and I will reiterate today that I thought what we needed then I still believe what we need is an economic strategy that focuses on creating jobs and rising incomes. A social strategy that rewards work and family in terms of welfare reform and everything else we do it reinforces responsible child rearing and responsible work that we ought to do it in a way that reduce the

size of the government and reduce the bureaucratic burden of the government but kept the government on the side of ordinary Americans. Now what I tried to do is to follow policies from whether it was reducing the deficit expanding trade increasing investment in education promoting welfare reform things that would help people to make the most of their own lives. I've also tried to do things I thought would increase security for American people whether it was the Family and Medical Leave Act or the crime bill. Are the things we tried to do in foreign policy or the anti-terrorism legislation that the speaker will take up when the Congress meets again starting tomorrow. Now we have a lot of differences and perhaps these differences will come out but we also have some areas in which we can work together. I think the most important thing is that we try to identify clearly the places where we disagree but then make our best effort our dead level best effort to work together to move this country forward. It seems to me that a lot of our problems are not particularly partisan in nature.

We do have for example as I have said from the day I became President we cannot afford not to do something about the fact that Medicare and Medicaid costs have risen at much more rapid rates and government revenues are going up so that every year we spend more and more on Medicare and Medicaid which means we have to either spend less on something else or explode the deficit. But I think how we do it and how long we take to do it in the manner in which we do it is critical. So we need to discuss these things in an open way. And one of the things that I like about New Hampshire that I don't like about modern politics generally because it's so different is that when I was running here in 92 I really felt that most people were making their decisions based on encounters like this rather than 30 second television ads are some blurred that comes across the airwaves where one politician is hitting another one and trying to use some emotional issue to divide the American people instead of to bring them together. I think that is what you have done for

presidential politics which is why I hope you'll always be able to have this first in the nation primary for both parties so we'll all have to go through this process. Of getting to know each other. So having said that I'd like to now bring the speaker or let him say a word or two and then we'll get on with your questions. Mr. Speaker. Let me say let me say first of all that I am delighted to be here and I appreciate very very much. I appreciate very much the opportunity to be here. And I want to thank both Loog anderen. And I want to thank the president for having been willing to allow me to come over I think. Despite this particular gentleman. I think that the tradition of New Hampshire for townhall meetings is exactly the right sort of thing to do. Now let me just

say if I might that I'm delighted to be here and that you ought to know this is a historic moment. The president visited you as we are told the first time since I believe Calvin Coolidge came here in the 1920s that a president has visited. Although of course many candidates have been here in the primaries. And I believe in all of American history there has never been a town hall meeting where a president and a speaker have been there at the same time so literally the city of Clermont is setting history today. Marianne and I are delighted to be here with Congressman Bass and Mrs. Alphen with Governor Merrill but I want to say two things that have happened to me today that are classically New Hampshire one I did on my own the one the president recommended. First of all we got up very early this morning and I want to report that we did see four moves. And one of them was a huge bull that stood in the middle of the road and

stared until every single photographer who was with me could get their picture. The other was I have to report Mr. President. I broke down. We stopped at the Dunkin Donuts in Harlem this morning after seeing the moose. And this is why you've done better with your figure than I have with mine. I'm just. I failed but I followed his advice. Let me say also to the band I had a chance to listen a while ago I thought you said exactly the right tone and exactly the right mood. I'm grateful that you all would allow me to come and join the president. You are invited. I hope today we can talk in a positive way about the positive things we Americans need to do and I agree with the president. The New Hampshire tradition of this kind of a discussion where we can sit you can ask questions we can both talk and we're not in nine second or 20 or clever advertisements or any of that stuff. And I just want to say one thing about where we are that I think all of you can identify with. I called my mom awhile ago and I called my mother in law and

said Gee I'm here now and what should I do. And all that. And. I also talked to my two daughters. We have all three generations involved now in this discussion. But let me tell you what I really honestly believe and I think this is pretty close to the president as most of you lived through the Depression and it was hard and you saved freedom in World War Two. And you say freedom in Korea. And you paid the taxes and you worked at the jobs to help win the Cold War. And you raised your children and you wanted them to live in a better country. And now you're helping raise your grandchild. And I believe all Americans can be told the truth and can actually watch their leaders have honest open disagreements and can talk things out and we can find common solutions. And I believe in this process working with the president with the House and the Senate with the governors I believe we can get to a balanced budget in a positive way. I believe we can save Medicare and it will not go broke despite the trustees report. I believe we can create a better future for our children and grandchildren

but it's got to be done exactly like here today so I hope with your permission the president I will now have a dialogue with you and maybe the country can learn a little bit about working together not just buying commercials and attacking each other. Thank you. Let me be here. Is it don't matter who would like to go first who's got a question. Yes sir. And I would number one like to say I'm sure Earl Borden would be so proud. But what is going on today. And I also would like to say that only in New Hampshire can it be that we can be having this conversation after the health care reform failure the very very large disappointment the last two years. One

of the things that some of us recognize is that the special interest groups really are running the country. Let me ask you both gentlemen both a question Would you be willing to have the same type commission as the base closure commission to review the reform act if the political section. It Till it would be out of the political scene somebody would just say these are the rules and this is the way it goes. Thank you. Well I would certainly be open to that. You know let me back up and say one of one of the differences we have let's talk about one of the differences we have about this. No one seriously believes that the budget can be balanced unless we can reduce the rate of increase in Medicare and Medicaid cost. We agree on that. We disagree on how much we have to reduce it and how it ought to be done. I also believe that

it would be far better if we could do it in the context of health care reform so that for example for seniors we would provide some incentives for less expensive but more widely available long term care short of nursing homes. We would have more emphasis on preventive care because one of the big problems with Medicare is there are three issues here what is the medical rate of inflation and can't we get it down to the overall rate of inflation you know health care costs have been going up more than radical costs regular cars. Second issue is how many new folks are coming on the Medicare every year. The third issue is how much more will the same people use the system because people are living longer and longer and the more you long you live the more you need to use it. And all these things are at the core of you know what we have to work out about how much we try to control this spending. It may be that the only way to do that is in the context of some sort of base closing commission like you say.

But I think we have to tell them what their mission is. That is it seems to me that the mission can't just be to save money. It has to be done only to stabilize the Medicare fund over the long run but to do it in a way that doesn't force retirees without the means to do it to shoulder much bigger increases for their own health care or run the risk of having professionals jump out of the health care system. Now that is what my problem is I just think that we have to be very careful about this. We worked hard to bring down the cost increases but to get much to go lower we're going to have to have structural changes that provide for real options in quality of health care. In my opinion without health care reform I don't think you can go dramatically lower. Let me just ask first I. I'm sorry. Let me stop and please applaud. I think this is how the president here is a good thing. Let me I think you are saying something a little different. I'll talk about Medicare in a second. But I think you are raising an issue that's very interesting. If I understood sir. You're suggesting that on this

whole issue of lobbyist and campaign finance and you know we have this whole issue about gifts in the Congress which I'm I'm frankly very uncomfortable with. I mean I just I don't know how all of you would feel but when you come down to talking about yourself you know it's very tricky sometimes and I think you were suggesting. I've never heard this proposed before. Maybe if we had sort of a blue ribbon commission of people that really had respect and integrity that would look at the whole lobbying political process. Is that what you thought you know about health care reform. Now you want to do it on lobby reform in a heartbeat. Except the problem is the president because the cause otherwise otherwise and this we cannot pass lobby reform our campaign finance reform or anything else. I would love to have a bipartisan commission on it. That's our only chance to get anything passed except let me say let's shake hands right here for everybody. That is that a pretty good deal. I I'll tell you if every question is as productive now can I just take one minute Mr. President talk about the Medicare thing because I do think the president put his

finger on something here where I think we analyze it slightly different but we both have the same commitment. And again let me say because I did talk about both to my mother in law my mother today I can report that I'm checking in pretty much of people who are immediately concerned about Medicare there are two differences one is I agree with the president that there are a number of things that have to be changed about health care in America for example. I believe if you're in the insurance system we ought to guarantee tomorrow morning that you have portability and you can change insurance and change jobs. And there are no preconditions and I feel this personally because my older daughter has a precondition and she's been through a period where she had to spend a whole year in vulnerability without any insurance so I think step by step I think where we've disagreed strategically is I think you can do those one building block at a time and get them through and get them signed. I think it's very hard as a practical matter to get a big comprehensive bill through because it seems to break down of its own weight.

Now specifically on Medicare I hope this summer that we'll be able to work with the president and with his cabinet. We're going to propose a plan. In general terms that takes current spending which is four thousand eight hundred dollars a year per senior citizen and moves it up over that seven years of the budget to six thousand four hundred dollars per senior citizen that that takes into account additional people but it'll be a $6300 or a 33 percent increase. That's less than the current projections. I'm not going to try to get anybody but it is an increase. And what we're trying to do right now is find a way first of all to guarantee that everyone who wants the current Medicare can keep it. And it may. You may have some increase in the amount you pay much along the line you had in the last six or seven years but you can keep the current system nobody is going to be forced to change. Nobody has to leave. But at the same time I'm hoping that working with the president and his administration we can find five or six additional options. Managed care for those who want it. In

some counties a lot do in other counties very few people do. Medical Savings Accounts which is a new idea that lets people have savings which could then be applied to long term care for example a voucher system where which some big companies are now using which is very effective. We can go to any doctor you want and we pay directly to the doctor your choice your control. And finally something which I think will get overwhelming support for if you look at your bills and you see waste or fraud. I'd like us to work in a system. So if you spot it and you report it you get a percentage of the savings. So every senior citizen in the country has a good sound reason to check on waste and fraud to help us get that out of the system because there's a general accounting office report that says there's about $44 billion a year in waste and fraud in both Medicare and Medicaid combined so I'm just suggesting if we can work together and get get the Senate with us we can by the end of the summer keep the current system and offer a four or five options and

move towards a system where you become a customer and you're making the choice for you about which one you like and if you prefer the current system you get to keep it. That's your choice. Here's what my concerns are. Well we will I work with them to try to work this out. Absolutely. But here's what my concerns are. If you sound like a law to increase some third over seven years but that's about 4 percent a year. And this last year we had medical inflation at about four and a half percent and that was good. We don't know whether it will stay that way. And the problem is that the Medicare population is going to get older and older and as they get older people use the system more. So I don't know that we can keep it to 4 percent a year. The Republican in the Senate Senator Packwood with the major responsibility for this says that we can stabilize the financial fund of Medicare with savings at about half the level proposed in the

speaker's budget. It's not really his buy but it is now they passed it. And my have I would prefer not to say right now we're going to cut at a level greater than I believe we have to in ways that I think will certainly require a lot of people who cannot afford it to pay more until we have explored all other alternatives because I believe we can get there without doing this. And as you know I believe. Well let me say there are going to have to be some changes. We cannot leave the system the way it is. We can't pretend that just go where to senior senator that there will be no changes. There have to be some changes. But I think these these reductions from the projected levels of spending I think are too severe and what I favor is having a smaller tax cut and a smaller Medicare reduction in Medicaid reduction. And then let's see how much we can save year by year because we have not tried a lot of these things. He and I both forget. I really believe you ought to have incentives to join managed care plans. I don't think anybody ought to make you do it

I just think you ought to have incentives to do it. Out west I know there's one managed care plan for Medicare that offers people the right to get into Medicare for 95 percent of what the per person cost is and they give him a prescription drug benefit along with health care and still make money. I think you should have the right. I think you know people ought to be able to try to talk you into doing that. But there ought to be an option not a requirement. If you want to stay in the program I think you ought to be able to stay on the program the way it works now is you don't pay for Part A. But you do pay more. As you said by about the rate of inflation for the doctor bills and things like that. So that's where I would start these negotiations that say let's cut it as little as possible till we know how much we can save. Because if we lock ourselves in to a tax cut and we lock ourselves in the other spending then we'll wind up just not funding it even if we end up hurting people and I don't think we ought to do that. I have no problem with all these experiments but let's know what we going to do.

Can I make one other comment. I'll just make one quick comment then we'll go back to a question later. But but let me just say I think in spirit we're not that far apart. The thing that is driving us is that the trustees reported that Medicare will go broke. By 2002 it starts to lose money next year and it literally runs out. This is part a this is the hospital part and all of you folks who may be watching us may not get it but every person in this room understands parte or every person out here in this plaza understands parte. We start first with with two big steps here. And I think we can talk about exactly how we make the transition. One is how do we save it for your generation. And that's very very important. We have to and the earlier we can take some changes the easier it's going to be to make that transition by 2002. But I must tell you I become 52 this coming week and I'm older than he is and you can see where the gray hair up we haven't. But I I start thinking about when the baby boomers start to retire. The weight of the current system financially is so enormous and we've seen some numbers three

trillion five hundred billion dollars a year would be the cost of Medicare alone not counting Social Security. And so part of what I hope we can do is set up a second commission to go back to the gentleman's idea and this will be a commission that would look out beyond saving Medicare in the short run and start to talk now about what do we need to do for the baby boomers and their retirement years and their health care because frankly that makes everything we're worried about the folks who replace us 20 years from now are going to have a much bigger challenge than we have in freaking out how the baby boomers retire and what happens. But I think that's something we could probably work on in a positive way together. Let me just again re-emphasize two or three points though. In general Lemon agree with it that. We need to focus on some things we know right now will work. We know we could save money long term in the system. If there were other options for long term care in addition to nursing homes that will always be people who need to be in nursing homes. But there should be other options today there aren't any.

And you've got all kinds of middle class families where the parents have to spend on all their assets to qualify for Medicaid to get into a nursing home because there's nothing else they can do. So we wind up cutting off our nose to spite our face. You know that in order to keep the family from going broke the government winds up paying more that might otherwise be necessary. But to be fair we don't know how to cost that out. We ought to get more people the option of going into a managed care program if somebody says for the same price you're playing now. We could also give you a prescription drug benefit but you'd lose a few options on who your doctors were then you should decide whether you want to do that or not. You could decide we ought to do that. We ought to do more wellness and prevention planning. My only fear is that we should be very careful about how we plan the budgets over the next five or six or seven years. When I became president the Medicare trust fund was projected to go broke in 1999. So we pushed it back to 2002. I think

we have to push it back another four or five years. We got to keep doing that. But I agree with one thing the speaker said I absolutely agree with when you think about what the baby boomers require which is what 2000 19 or Levin whenever it was. I'm trying to push it whenever I get that. That's going to require a significant long term structural adjustment. We'll have to look at what we can do there. But the main thing we can't do we can't have this thing go broke in the meanwhile and I'm just telling you that less drastic procedures in my judgment can keep it from going broke if we make some other changes in our overall budgeting without undermining our ability to balance a budget who's going to the cost this my question is for Mr. Chuen rich the problems facing our country continuously grow more serious.

And yet Congress continues to snip and snipe and they play to special interests and partisan politics. When is Congress going to get together and work for the good of the country. I think that's a very good question. Partly of course answered by this gentleman who I think has a great idea and you've now have us publicly in front of you and all these reporters saying we're going to work together and I hope we can develop a blue ribbon commission pretty fast because that's that's a part of it. Part of it is what I said I was glad the president suggested this and then agree to do it. I think just having your leaders chat rather than fight is a good thing. I think it sets a different tone. Now I want to commend the president. He sent up some very important anti-terrorism legislation. We had a meeting of all the Republican and Democratic leaders with him. We talked about it right after the Oklahoma City bombing. It then got bogged down in both houses frankly more than it

should have. Senator Dole then made an appeal to the president because the Senate has seen the house you have very strict rules and you can get something through on a day if you work at it in the Senate. If you have one or two senators who don't like something it takes forever. Now I don't think the Arkansas legislature back when the president was governor quite had a Senate that had that kind of power I think. You know this filibuster vote. So Senator Hagel appealed to the president and the president frankly rose to the occasion worked out a bipartisan agreement and I think dramatically changed the tone of that anti-terrorism debate and helped us get something through that was very very positive. So I think there are steps like this. I hope I reacted positively the other day when the president said he was going to have a budget proposal. We're in conference now. But frankly if they do submit something this week or next week we're not. I mean we're going to take a sit down and look at it all. I think this summer we ought to work on Medicare together. We shouldn't have a Republican plan and a Democratic plan in the house. We've tried that we had Mike Parker who's

a Democrat who met with our budget committee members all through the budget. We had some Democrats not a lot but some who voted with us on the budget in the Senate. Senator Kerry from the entitlement commission and Senator Nunn and one other senator voted for the budget. But we ought to when we can we ought to pick up on what you said. It's very hard though for a practical reason the founding fathers designed the Congress to be where everybody sends their representative and it's the place where everybody shows up with their ideas. And I'll tell you some days even with the best of will. Congressman Gephardt for example is and his wife Jane are good friends to Miami. Even with the best will you find yourself some days wondering how did you get into the particular mess you're in. And the founding fathers wanted an arena in the House and Senate to fight out our passions instead of having a civil war. They wanted us to send everybody from every part of the country and their idea was that they wanted a system so inefficient that no dictator could force it to work.

Now the problem with that is we and I sure did that. I was going to say they succeeded. We can barely get it together voluntarily so Mr. Prohack Well let me say I think there are a couple of things we need to be try to be candid about here one of my great frustrations since I've been president is that I have a line that I sometimes say in speeches I'll just tell you I was in Montana the other day and I said if all I knew about me was what I saw on the evening news I wouldn't be for me half the time either. I mean the truth is that that that it is so difficult for us in Washington to communicate with people out in the country with all the layers. But the point is that what often is the only way to break through is some fairly extreme statement. The speaker's feel good that he can break through like nobody said it louder. But but it will get covered. You know he can break through that the easy way for us to like this Medicare debate. The easiest way for us to

break through is for him to say they want to fix the trust fund and the Democrats have no plan. And for me to say he cuts Medicare too much you know costs you a lot. Now the truth is we both believe that but it's more complicated than that. And the problem we have is that in a difficult time like this where we're moving into a whole new era there very often are not simple answers to complex problems but simple answers very often move the electorate. So if you don't want that if you want a reasoned debate and you really want to say to the Republicans and the Democrats look get together and do something is good for the country and put party aside. Then out here in the country when the congressman and the senators come home on the weekends you need to tell them that and you did say it over and over and over again we will stay with you. We will not be spooked by this or that launch in one direction the other will give you four or five or

six months to try to work through this budget. And that's what we expect you to do. You have to send a different signal. You have to send a different signal you have to make people believe they can take complicated positions explain them to you. And if you think they make sense you'll stick with them and if you do that I think you can change the way politics works in America. Can I make one quick story before I take another question because it is so much what he just said. And I actually I wrote it in a book because it is so vivid to me. We were wanting to get to that that you got to love this now though you're going to love this Senator Dole and give me permission to read that book. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Well I thought I get your copy soon. That's good. But let me. Let me tell you because it was so vivid and it makes the president's point we had a meeting you'll remember well where Dick Armey and I were down there and the whole brand new leadership after the election and obviously the president wasn't all that thrilled to have the Republicans win the election. And we understood that and heck we wouldn't have been you know if we were in there. I wasn't all that thrilled frankly to have George Bush lose the last one so you know we understood his feelings. We

had a great meeting. It was a meeting that I almost wish could have been on C-SPAN because the country wouldn't have it we talked about a line item veto which is currently a little bit bogged down but we'll get to it. Give it back to what they talked about what we talked about unfunded mandate reform which he signed very early. We talked about passing the Shays act apply the law to the Congress that applies or else which he signed very early. You know we had things going on that were positive. Dick Armey and I walked out front were in the White House in front of the White House drive there we say to the to the White House press corps. We had a great positive meeting. We're going to be able to work a lot more than people think. And we began to list these things. The second question we were asked what do you think it'll break down over. And both of us got mad as he's right. I get too hot sometimes and so I just said to the reporter I said you just heard the leaders of the Republican Party say that the Democratic president they had a wonderful meeting on behalf of America. We're

trying to work together. Couldn't you try for 24 hours to have a positive optimistic message as though it might work and it was just it's a true story and he did it. It was a great meeting that he called the trickiest in a funny way as not to hide the differences but to get them out in a way that where those of us on opposite sides can understand the other's opinion. Now there's a way to make an argument to get them x amount of votes out of it in the shortest amount of time through a motion. And there's a way to make the same argument so that your opponent at least understands your position. And I bet it's the same way here around a gaming table where anything else you know there's two ways to talk to people when you've got a difference of opinion. More than half the time in this country this interesting little historical fact more than half of the presidents who have served have had the Congress in the hands of the opposite party at least one if not both houses. That's what

the voters seem to think. That's a good idea. And they keep doing it. So we have to try to figure out how to make it work. Yes. Mr. Peabody you're. Looking good in your navy cap. I think Mr. President Mr. Speaker that by being here today and talking the way you are to each other today you may help turn our country around and get rid of this backbiting which has prevented our country from going ahead during the past 10 years. And I congratulate you both for being here. Mr. Speaker in your introductory remarks you mentioned that US folks experienced World War II and the Korean War and we did and we fought a war with hope we'd never fight a third world war.

And our presidents President Roosevelt and President Truman with the leaders of the Republican Congress as well helped set up the United Nations and for 50 years we have prevented a world war 3. And we are worried as we move off the scene that our children will not have the peace that we have had. Even though it has been marked by interim wars and we are worried that the United Nations will not have the support in the future that it's had in the past and we are concerned Mr. Speaker with I think it's called H.R. five which was got H.R. seven which was got the United Nations and the peacekeeping effort that we've had in the past and we hope that you can resurrect that bill and provide the United Nations the strength. So we will give credit to our veterans who died in the last war and that we might have peace and keep the United Nations going. Let me say first of all and I appreciate very much your comment about the two of us being here and I I hope you're right.

I say first of all on a lot of foreign policy issues we work very closely together and we have tried very hard on Russia on the Middle East on a whole range of areas to be very supportive of the president and his senior advisers have always been open in briefing me and have always been open to my phone calls or my visits. We've tried in the House to stop some things that would have been very destructive. And I've tried in public and I've I've learned a fair amount in the last six months that is Speaker. It's very important for me to be careful and to be modulated on a number of foreign policy issues and while we can tangle on domestic politics you know there really is a great lesson to be learned from Arthur Vandenberg in World War Two. But let me tell you the two things I think where maybe you and I just disagree and I hope you won't mind my being direct first. I don't think the last 50 years the peace was kept by the United Nations over the last 50 years the peace was kept because the United States of America spent a lot of money and sent its young men and women all over the planet and we were the strongest military power in history and we built an alliance called NATO and we took enormous risks and our children my

father fought in Korea and Vietnam. We are now risking our children in Bosnia in Iraq in a whole range of play in Haiti where the French president frankly has so far and I hope it works out perfectly. Has so far had a much better policy than I thought it would. It worked better than I thought it would. And he's he deserves to be commended for having taken some risk in Haiti. But first I will say to you first I believe we have to recognize that what won the Cold War and what kept the peace was America's willingness to lead and that nothing. You're wearing a navy cap. If my choice is three U.N. secretary generals are one aircraft carrier. I can tell you which one I prefer to keep the peace in a dangerous world. But I will say secondly about the U.N. because I'm a big fan of Franklin Roosevelt's. I'm frankly a fan of Woodrow Wilson's And I think what they were trying to accomplish was terribly important. I think we have to revisit the United Nations current structure. I mentioned this to the national security adviser the other day the U.N. current system of command and

control is a nightmare. And anybody any of our military and the president knows this because he gets briefed on any of our military who looks at what's been happening in Bosnia just wants to cry. You don't send in the military to be hostages. You send in the military to rescue hostages and the U.N. system. I'm willing to take the U.N. system seriously enough to actually encourage our government to take the lead in reforming the current peacekeeping system because if it's not reformed it's going to collapse and become a joke and you'll see NATO replace it in Bosnia in the not very distant future. And I take it very seriously over the long run. Churchill once said jaw jaw jaw is better than war war war. And I think Churchill was right. But to get there we have to be strong. We have to lead our allies and together I think we have to learn the lessons of what doesn't work in the U.N.. And my hunch is frankly if this bill is going to become law there's going to be some fairly intense negotiating between Senator Dole and myself and the president because otherwise he's going to

veto it and we won't have the votes to override him so I think we're not you're not going necessarily see exactly the bill that's currently there. Let me just say very briefly. I agree that the United Nations didn't keep all the peace in the last 50 years. What I think is that the end of the Cold War gives us the opportunity to have the U.N. fulfill its promise and the United States has had before me and during my administration the serious disputes with the U.N. about the way it's managed and the way certain crises are handled. Now having said that I disagree with the foreign affairs bill going through because it ties the president's hands in too many ways. I disagree I'll say something as unpopular here. I disagree with all the cuts in foreign aid in the budget. Most people believe that we're spending 10 15 percent of your tax money on foreign aid. We're actually spending about a penny and a half. We're spending a smaller percentage of our budget on foreign aid than any advanced country in the world and yet you'd be amazed how far a little bit of money from the

United States goes in stabilizing democracy all over the world for the United Nations. A lot of their some of their peacekeeping has worked. It worked and it made a real contribution in Cambodia it's made a contribution elsewhere. The problem in Bosnia was just talk about that is that great countries France Britain the Netherlands Ukraine sent their soldiers there to be in the UN peacekeeping force under terms of engagement that the United States could never agree to because they basically agreed until just this last accident that thake that the Serbs could in effect take them hostage and they wouldn't fight back. And we could never agree to that. And having said that it's still true that 130000 people died in Bosnia civilians in 1992 and under 3000 died there last year and a lot of us made contributions to that. So sometimes as bad as in Raggatt is it is a UN is better than nothing. And

I think it is our forum and a lot of good things have happened in the US we have been able to pursue our nonproliferation agenda we've been able to pursue our action to reinforce what we're trying to do with North Korea to keep them from becoming a nuclear power we've been able to do a lot of good things. And I think we should look for ways to strengthen the UN not weaken it because I agree with him in what he said. If it is weak and if it fails it will all come back on the shoulders of the United States and another generation of young Americans will have their necks on the line. If we fail to have an effective strong United Nations which is why I think we should support it and make it work. My name is at the Parmer. And thank you. And I'd like to say that I've been my philosophy is that if people are working and getting a good wage that they will spend their money and people will be able to with that money they spend and buy things with

the people that make that product will be able to work and get a family x amount of money of that will be sent back to government and taxes which will help run our country. Now I feel that I would like to ask the question that by the money in the way I've talked for both of you to answer it if you really think that four dollars and fifty cents is too much to make per hour minimum wage. I'm talking. I'm for raising it. You know I think that let me say that I think that I'd like to see every american make as much as they can possibly make. But I also am concerned I also know I don't like it too much. I am I am very concerned. However there there's a disagreement among economists about this. I'm very concerned that if you raise the cost of the first job for the poorest

person for example in the inner city the way you tend to do is increase black male teenage unemployment which is exactly the thing you don't want to do. And and so my goal is to have a rapidly growing economy where frankly wages keep going up because people are better educated more productive and can compete in the world market. And we can tell on the Russians and the Ukraine's in the polls now Hungarians that the free market works and you've got to get out in a free market and you've got to compete in the world market. And my concern is just that as you go through this transition that if we raise the minimum wage and again you get economists to both sides this argument that the group we we don't hurt anybody who's an industrial plant that's doing well. We don't hurt anybody who's already working for the government. But if you are that marginal employee and you're out there you're the first laid off. And that makes it harder for Hispanic and black teenagers to get decent jobs and we already have too much unemployment and too much long term lack of job skills among minority teenagers. But I think that's a legitimate disagreement probably between the

two of us. Let me just tell you what the contrary view is what my view is and it is true that there are economic studies that say if you raise the minimum wage you raise you raise incomes for people who are at the minimum wage and a little above it too who get bumped up. But it costs some jobs. There are other studies that say it doesn't cost any jobs because for example people on welfare are out of the workforce. Well I think it's more worth their while to come in and compete for those jobs and they'll want to work more. The reason that I am for it is that I believe that first of all I know that that a significant percentage of people on the minimum wage are women workers raising their kids on their own. And I just believe that we shouldn't allow if we don't raise the minimum wage this year the next year after you adjust for inflation it'll be at a 40 year low. And my idea is that we ought to be trying to create a high wage high growth economy and that is what it is little regulated is possible but this is a minor amount of regulation on the bottom end.

And there are other ways to deal with this market problem. You know Barbara Jordan a former colleague of yours headed a commission for me on immigration she's recommended a modest decline in the immigration quota every year. And I think Senator Simpson the Republican senator from Wyoming has recommended the same thing if you did that you might have exactly you might still therefore have exactly the same demands for low skilled people who are already in the United States and you wouldn't therefore be any net out even if you did raise the minimum wage. I just think it is the people I guess I admire most in this country are the people that get up every day and work themselves to death for the minimum wage or just a little bit above it. Note that editing I might point out that was very well done. Self-editing and they come home with their dog pound at night and are raising their kids and they don't have enough money to live on and they don't break the law they don't cheat on our taxes. They don't do anything wrong. And it's all I can do to keep

body and soul together and I guess my instinct is that you get way more good than harm out of it. And I believe if you go back to when when they did it when the last time it was done was when 89 or something. I think on balance we did fine. As a result of doing it I think we should do it again. Can you can I add one more comment. Let me add one more comment because I think he's making a point that's that's very important in a day and thinking about the totality. You mentioned immigration. I think in addition to the recommendations of the commission which I think was a very important thing to do and I think that Barbara Jordan was a superb person to head it up. I think we've got to look very seriously at illegal immigration because I can tell you even in North Georgia we now have a very large number of illegal immigrants working for example in the chicken industry. And it is on the verge of getting out of control all over this country. And so even if we were to close down illegal immigration or slow it down if the illegal immigration just keeps pouring in the effect of driving out American workers is devastating.

Second I think we have to have welfare reform the reemphasizes work which is part of why we frankly want to get back to the governors and have Governor Merrell working on welfare reform to reestablish work because if it cost you a New York City if you lose money going to work at minimum wage then even when you raise the minimum wage you can't afford to go to work and so the president again I mean he campaigned on replacing welfare as you know it and he's committed to welfare reform that that gets us in that direction. Lastly I guess I like say and this is I don't actually know where you are on this right. I believe we both have to have much more adult education. I've suggested we try for example unemployment compensation to training so that people when they're not on a job are learning if we're giving them money they're actually getting trained and learning much more like the Swedish German model. And part of the reason we propose the $500 per child tax credit is because the day you go to work you start paying Social Security FICA taxes. It is very regressive on the poorest workers and the mothers that the president just referred to who may have say two or three children who are working at minimum wage if they could get

$1000 or fifteen hundred dollars back from their government in a child tax credit we think that helps that mother take care of those children. It's a different approach. But again it's a way of trying to get more cash into those pockets. And I agree with the president. We have got to find a way to get. I think it's now 40 percent of our children are in poverty. We have got to find a way to raise our children and get those children out of poverty very quick on illegal immigration. We've increased by about 40 percent the number of border guards we've got. And we're sending illegal immigrants back more rapidly than ever before especially if they come in contact with the criminal justice system. What we need in it we can work together on this is the capacity to go into more workplaces and find people who are taking jobs away from Americans illegally. And I think that's important. A welfare reform we don't have time to debate that today. We agree on the ends. We have big disagreements about the means. But I've given 29 of the 50 states permission to get out from under all the federal rules and to do things like take food stamp and welfare checks and give it to employers as a waste subsidy

supplement and let employers hire somebody off welfare and use that use the welfare check to cut the employer's cost to put the people to work instead. And I think that's good. I don't think I can stand up. My name is wreath at Gendron am with his wife. I'm a former Vista volunteer and that's how I got my stack. And I think my question would probably be directed to you sir. I went down to Concord. I was privileged to go down and see the opening of Americorp in Concord New Hampshire. And I can't get over the numbers of people that I saw. And when I was a Vista volunteer 14 years ago there were I think everyone that was in my group of people that worked in the state of New Hampshire have gone on to become very successful and had working in many many of those people in that group were a single parent. And that's how they got their start. And I consider myself extremely fortunate to be a Vista volunteer and support the Americorp and I'd like to know what your views are.

Sure. Let me say this is an area where I think the president has a good idea but we disagree. I think about philosophy of government and about setting priorities. But that's not a bad idea. I don't think Americorp in any way is a bad thing and in a minute since I want to go first I'm confident that he will tell you vividly how good an idea it is. But I have two concerns that I think are a different direction philosophically. One is that I believe and we have people like Congressman Colby and Congressman Knollenberg who are developing a bill that would give every taxpayer a tax credit to give the money directly to charities so the charities could do it directly. I believe we want to have less Washington based bureaucracy and fewer decisions made in Washington and we want to strengthen the private charity. So if you said to me tomorrow morning would I rather strengthen America or the Salvation Army. The truth is I happen to agree with a book more of in Alaska called the tragedy of American Compassion where he argues that the kind of transformation that you can get from a hundred black men or from

from Habitat for Humanity who's been wearing the kind of groups that aren't restricted by legitimate government restrictions but are able to go in in a much more spiritual basis in a much more directed basis and help people change. You get a stronger healthier society by getting a total head of government. That's a difference of philosophy about the size of God. There's a second difference if we're going to balance the budget I think this is a time to be very tough minded about priorities. Now the president this is one of his highest priorities and his fighting very ably fought and is going to frankly keep it if we can get to assignable recision bill it's going to contain. It's going to keep America and that's the power of the presidency. I would just suggest that when you sit down and look at what it takes to balance the budget over seven years or 10 years it's hard. And if you're setting priorities about which programs to keep and which not you can have a legitimate honest debate about how many things you can afford to do in Washington and how many things you need to get back home to New Hampshire we need to get the private sector. But it's an area where I don't fault his vision and his desire to recruit people at all. And I think it's frankly a program that's very defensive. It's just one. It's a

question of philosophy and priorities. Let me give you my side of it. The reason the reason I got the the idea of doing Americorp was basically I thought we ought to have more scholarship money available for young people who wanted to further their education or even not so young people who wanted to do it. And I thought we needed to promote the idea of service here in this country among young people at least in a symbolic way if I could fund it all. If the speaker would support me I'd get up to a couple hundred thousand people in America or in no time. But I wanted to do it especially as we bring down the size of the military because a lot of young people who otherwise would have gone into the military and gotten wonderful training and served their country and invaluable ways and changed their whole lives forever. Now we'll be able to do it because we just have we don't have a need for the same size military. And this idea intrigued me it was promoted by a lot of other people I didn't come up with it I

just thought we ought to do it and it is not organized even though it's funded by Washington and there's a general policy group in Washington or a board. Governor Merrill can tell you from what they have here in New Hampshire it is very there's very little bureaucracy people competed for the money if your project got the money you just kept it. There's almost the very few reporting requirements and no rules and regulations from the federal government. But with 20000 people in America which is what we had this year we have more people doing that than we're ever in the Peace Corps in any given year. And the other day I was down in Dallas just for example where a retired African-American general supervises our Americorp program and I saw four volunteers two girls who were teenage mothers and on welfare who got themselves off welfare got a high school equivalency and were working to help other people get off and earn the money for college. A woman who was retired from the Navy. Believe it or not who said I don't even know if I'll ever use this credit. I just wanted to serve my country again. Working in the neighborhoods

and a young woman who had a degree from the University of Florida whose mother was on welfare when she was born and she had always done very well and she just wanted to go back and give something try to change that neighborhood. I think it's important for us to find some ways for people of different racial and income backgrounds and regional backgrounds to work together for the common good in a non bureaucratic way. So I think it's a tiny cost for a big gain. And that's our difference. Questions I was asked about. Mr. President Mr. Speaker you have ladies and gentlemen we have time for one more question. Thank you. Mainly intended for our speaker if the Congress gives the president a line item veto with out any amendments.

Wouldn't that lower our budget and get help the deficit. The answer is yes I would and I support it and I'm hoping we're going to be in conference this summer and a lot of vetoes aimed specifically at appropriations bills. And he's already indicated that's how he use it. I hope we're going to get it passed and to him this summer so he can actually use it I strongly favorite I think 43 of the governors have. And you had it when you were governor of Arkansas. And I think now it's not going to be by itself a panacea but it's going to cut a couple of billion dollars a year of pork out maybe as much as 10 billion if we. Under certain circumstances. And I supported it when we had Ronald Reagan and George Bush. And just as the other night frankly we tried to repeal the war powers act to give the president back the right the legitimate power of the commander in chief. I think that any president ought to have the line of veto and I support President Clinton getting it. I want to say first of all thank you very much for that. We have some other Republicans were worried because the line item veto legislation might also permit the president to line item veto special tax bill as opposed to general tax legislation special tax

legislation. I think it shouldn't include that. But what I what I said I sent a letter I sent a statement to the speaker and to the majority leader in the Senate saying that I know that a lot of the Republicans may think they want to give tax cuts which they believe are good which I don't agree with. So I would commit that further for the remainder of this budget cycle this year if they would pass it this year. I would only use it on spending this year as a gesture of good faith so we could get it into the law and begin to see how it works. And before we leave I should say one other thing on the UN thing that I did with all the differences we've had except for the United Nations and one or two other minor things the speaker has been very supportive of me on foreign policy and one of the things we have to do together is to figure out how to make his party in the house somewhat less isolationist than it is. And I think they're only reflecting the views of their constituents that is people want us to tend to our problems here at home. They don't want us to waste any money overseas.

Nothing is more poverty than doing that now. But this is a very small world. And every time the United States walks away from problems around the world we wind up paying 10 times the price in blood and money later on. So we're going to work together on it. If I could. But let me let me say thanks and goodbye. First then let the president have the final say as is appropriate. Let me just say first of all I agree with what he said although I can tell you in both parties the difficulties and the problems of carrying the burden of America is the same with the Democrats. And so there's a real challenge for all of us to be able to go back home and explain why America. Why America has to lead. Let me finally say to Lou and everybody here who invited us I think this has been the best New Hampshire tradition and the best American tradition. Fabulous that you you'd have us come over and. All right. And I just want to say thank you to all of you and again I want to thank the president. He didn't have to do

this. It was his idea. I think it's good for America and I'm grateful for the chance to be here. Thank you. Let me let me close by thanking you. I've enjoyed this and I expect you have to and most of all I want to thank all of you for having us here for listening for asking the questions what my chops are no good. Well I'll be over there to get just what I want to say is when you all hear us debating these issues. I want you to think about some real big questions and I want you to think about the things that affect you of course. When you hear these numbers batted around it won't mean anything. I want you to think about if we propose a change in Medicare if he does do what will how will it affect you I want you to think about that

because you should and you should let us know. I also want you to think about the big issues. What do you think the federal government ought to be doing. What is the role of the federal government as we move into the 21st century. How important is it to reduce the budget deficit as opposed to dealing with let's say the needs of our people for more investment in education and training. And do you want us to do both. We have problems in America that are not just political and economic. They're are also social cultural personal problems. There's some people you can't help unless they also are willing to help themselves. On the other hand you can't just go around and point fingers at people to tell them to help themselves if they need a little help to get down the road in life. So these are these big fundamental basic questions that are now being debated all over again in Washington maybe for the first time in 50 years where we're really going back to basics and you need to be a part of that if you want us to work

together instead of figure out who's got the best 30 second attack on the other. You need to really hammer that home. You need to tell the congressmen you need to tell the governor you need to tell all of us that. Be clear about your difference but don't divide the country and let's try to do this. Let me just close by saying this. I am. I wouldn't trade places with anybody in any other country I get to represent you around the world and with all of our problems the diversity of America the power of our entrepreneurial system the resources and resolve of our people. We're still in better shape for the next century than any other major country in the world. And don't you ever forget it. And what we owe you is our best efforts not only to show you how we disagree in ways that make us look better than the other but to actually get things done that your lives and your children and your grand. I'm going to do my best to do my part. Thank you.

God bless you all. Tick. Tick tick. Tick tick tick tick tick. That's what we thought with New Hampshire Public Radio just to get some reaction to what you drink and anything you create. It's great. The prices are. What we heard. Everything about it is great here. What did you like what you got from both of these men and the fact that they're here talking about all these wonderful. I think it's good that it's great that they're both talking but I'm President Clinton fan because I like President Clinton. Why do you like President Clinton. Do you like President Clinton. I don't know.

Is it his philosophy of government or what exactly are you attracted to. It's OK. It's not like that. No I know. I know that I. Could go for I. I'm a person who watched most of the renewing American civilization course and I was very impressed by everything that I heard and I think that the thing that Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich have in common is they both love America a great deal. I don't think that they are as far apart as soundbites and front page stories might lead the average person to believe. And you come to a place like this and you listen to a dialogue like this and you realize that ultimately this is what the Founding Fathers had in mind for course corrections and making this country work. I compare this to the Lincoln-Douglas debates because it seems like we were at a crossroads right now in terms of what we think government should and should not do and how big

government should be. And for both gentlemen the opportunity to do to compare and contrast where they both are I think is a remarkable opportunity. Something I'll tell my grandkids about and my grandkids will hopefully tell their grandkids about. I think this is just it a privilege to be here and everything that I've heard today confirms and that's going to be very much like a white house ceremony. Michael Woodhouse how are you with. Actually I'm a member of the Claremont School Board. I'm the chairman of the school administrative unit here and I have been following the supporter of President Clinton from very early on and helped out his campaign in 91 and that sort of that has a lot to do.

With friends and he's doing their job. Elaborate on that when I said there are a lot of things we agree on and the places we disagree. But he is the United States it was a very gracious gesture on his part to let me be here and I think both of us said and I think both voters feel that this kind of a conversation was good for America. Do you think this kind of conversation can carry over into sitting out here. Can you do it. I think we do more of that in Washington than gets reported. I think that there are a lot of places where we try to work together and try to get things done for the country. And I think what people saw here today was an unedited example of how we interact as personalities. Now we have substantial differences in some things but there are a lot of other areas where substantial movements and now that you've been here for a while now when you think about running for president

I'm not inclined to I think is pretty name I think where can you move forward with the agenda on the peace deal with me. Well I think you'll see a number of steps going on that next week that I think I want our folks to look at the transcripts of today and see. But I I think there are clearly three or four areas where we could really put together a good agreement. Could you. Well one is the concept of a commission to really look at the whole process of lobbying and to politics and to really try to come up with a good report. I think another is the president indicated a willingness to work on Medicare together. I think that's very you know to have the president say yes it has to be changed. Yes. The. That is such a huge difference from from what could happen where you could have had a president decide to try to use it for partisan advantage. And I think that changes the whole tone of our ability to solve things this summer and to make a break. Yes there's no question in my mind this was a very healthy helpful step for America. Mr. Speaker agree or disagree the winner here is Americans not Republican.

That's absolutely right. I think the winners are Americans. And I think the president and I had a chance and a non pressured open environment surrounded by people who love their country to just talk to guys trying to do their jobs. And I think that people could see that it can be a much more positive creative non-confrontational system than you see on an edited nine second sound bite kind of news. And let me guess you'd be willing to do this whenever you well whenever we could certainly work out a schedule. Happy. Turkey. Day. We have so when you can get the reaction to what you heard and saw today. I think it's incredible. It really is I think it's something that needs to be done. When they said that it was a it

was an opportunity for them to check together as people might think. I think that's exactly what we have to do. Communication is what it's all about. Is this a turning point perhaps in politics as you perceive it's either a turning point or just an anomaly but we'll see what happens it might be a once in a lifetime thing that they'll never want to repeat again. But I mean it's certainly the right way. It may as well give it a try. I'd like to see this a turning point. It's wonderful to see. And it's probably. Going to be good. It's going to be good. Why is so refreshing so different from what you as an ordinary person here you'd normally see. Well it brings it home for one thing. I mean with this it brings the rates of the people. This is a great group of people this is a wonderful building and it's a. Lot of good comes out here. I worked for a community action programs I work with nonprofit and I work really hard to try to help. The people who need it the most. And I think this shows that I think to some degree these guys care. OK. Last question. I know that it's all a love fest right now. Let me ask you if one of them persuaded you that you would them more than the other one. You know about the political

differences that were you heard well as appreciating the cooperation you saw. I think I'm a Democrat I'm a supporter. Bill Clinton I think he's has done a lot of good things. Mr. Gingrich even alluded to that today and actually stated that he has done some things. And so I think let's just continue it bring it in 96 Clinton in 96. Take your argument. Thanks. Yes mine is Keith people from New Hampshire to keep this lead on with New Hampshire. Oh wonderful. That's the reason why I'm here on the radio. Yes. You know. You know you don't really. REMEMBER THAT. I did ask you what you thought about what you heard just real informal reactions. I think it was wonderful. Really wonderful. I just hope that it

all rings true. I'd like to see them keep on working together. I'd like to see more of this type of conversation. It's different because. You. Have the chance to observe politics for. Certainly longer than I had. Quite a while longer. Right on. Where have you seen this kind of more practical or cooperative spirit before in politics. Have you I never have I never had 50 years of watching. No I never have. No it's not. Not even at a town meeting. Oh certainly not. I mean even before allegedly things got so now no part. No I didn't. The only thing that I ever saw when things were real cooperative was during the Second World War when there was a complete different search and everybody no matter who we were we all pulled away. And you didn't mind you sacrificing it and it didn't make any difference who you were. Everybody did it. Everybody pitched in. And

that was wonderful. That is true today. I would think. Because with the crime and the terrorism and the hard times that people are having with the wages in our neighbors today we can work together. It's the same it's the same thing you don't accomplish anything much so sincere and he really is so caring. Yes yes. And what about Mr. Gingrich what's your impression. My impression of him was that I was very negative about Newt Gingrich hearing me on television seeing him before the Congress very negative. I feel much differently about him today. How do you feel about him today. I feel much differently. I'm guarded. I think it's a step in the right direction. Two years he or she will cooperate and won't cooperate we'll try to reach compromises to make things work. Because as she

just said we're all in this together. Really nice talking with you ladies. Can I just get your names and where you're from I assume you're from Claremont from here. No I'm from out in Croydon Newport. I was invited over here. Shirley Andrews and you from crying. Right. OK first time and I'm from Newport. Great. I've been there expediter. I'm probably Anderson from Newport and I had the senior citizen. Last twins for a long time and I had no say in your head on time. You certainly have. I keep thinking everything's a little bit of that. You always find that in the town meeting where you can find it in the town meeting forum. If people are in. In the mood to find to get information to listen to other people's opinions. Of course some of the things that Mr. Gingrich talks about this scare me some of the things that Bob Smith hormones are the fact in this country not at the center.

That's right. That's great. Thank you very much. And this time. It's