The Exchange; Interview with Tom Tancredo

From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Laura Conaway and this is the exchange. For Colorado congressman and Republican presidential candidate Tom Tancredo. There is no other domestic issue more important than illegal immigration as a freshman in the U.S. House he started the Immigration Reform Caucus. His first book was titled In Mortal Danger The Battle for America's Border and Security and his presidential campaign Web site declares it's your country. Take it back whenever and wherever Tancredo meets with voters. He warns our nation is being overrun by illegal immigrants. But the congressman says the solution is simple. Existing statutes already on the books he says provide all the tools we need. If we enforce the law on our borders if we secure our borders and we can we simply choose not to. And if we go after employers who are in fact creating the magnet that pulls these people into this country. If we do those two things

simultaneously I assure you with what we will see people who are here illegally go home. They go home because the thing for which they have come the job is no longer available. If they cannot get social service benefits they go home by the millions and if they don't you must deport them because that is the law. Tancredo is home state newspaper The Denver Post calls him a one trick pony with his laser like focus on the immigration issue. But Tancredo doesn't seem to mind at least I have an issue he said. And in fairness his stump speeches do devote time to other matters especially terrorism Iraq and his opposition to abortion and gay marriage. Tancredo crowds seem enthusiastic but he's yet to make any major headway in the polls. Most put him at one percent or below. Tancredo has a chance though to make an impression on New Hampshire voters tonight as he and seven other Republicans take the stage at Unas for a presidential debate. Congressman Tancredo is with us this morning and we'll take your calls and e-mails to the exchange.

Number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 the e-mail exchange at HPR dot org. Congressman Tancredo thanks for coming in we sure appreciate your time this morning we know you've got a busy day getting ready for that debate. That's right. It's a pleasure to be here. I enjoy it. Well let's talk about him. I don't know why but everytime you're on public radio always sound so much smarter. If they had said it's all in their heads that is it. And the good microphone is this so so so important to you Congressman Tancredo. You know we were thinking about it as we got ready for the show yesterday. You're not in Arizona or California or a state that deals you know every day immediately directly with these issues. Why is immigration the number one issue. Well it's it's not just an issue it's a phenomenon. It's you cannot divide a you cannot call it an issue because inside of it are so many parts and so many things that actually affect us affect the United States in a very serious way. Of course there's the issue

of the cost of illegal immigration on our educational system the cost of educating kids in our schools of people who are here illegally and the cost of treating folks in our medical system that are here illegally and are not paying for it. The fact that our prison systems are bursting at the seams and many of the people in those systems are illegal immigrants who have committed other crimes. In fact something like 27 percent of all of the people in federal prisons are criminal aliens. The the environmental issues that are attendant to this are significant. I mean just in terms of numbers if it's 12 to 20 million no one is for sure know for sure exactly how many people are in this country illegally but certainly 20 million people additional people in this country have an environmental impact and I guarantee you on a more practical sense they have an enormous impact on the border area where they're coming across and they're

coming across and destroying the land as they do so I mean footpaths and trash. And it's it's just an enormous area of the country that has been affected by this. It's not an insignificant part of the picture here. And then there is the issue of of course national security whether or not your borders are secure and whether they are porous. Well that certainly affects the security of the nation in an overall sense. People who are coming here across those borders some of them are coming to do things other than work at the local quick way or pick fruit or vegetables. They're coming to do very bad things. And so you've got porous borders through which a lot of people are coming. And then you've got the impact on the culture itself. We are becoming a bilingual ised nation I do not think that's a good idea. By the way I think we are becoming

balkanized. I think that that is not necessarily happening because simply because of immigration but as the numbers are so huge that certainly the pressures that move us in that direction of balkanization are there. I remember reading a book when I was a much younger and but it had quite an effect on me. It was a book by Arthur Schlesinger Jr. noted liberal observer of the scene recently deceased recently deceased. And the book was and was titled the uniting of America. And the point that he was making is that we risk something by the by doing essentially what we're doing now dividing ourselves up into these ethnic groupings linguistically linguistically also dividing ourselves in the country and that it's hard to hold a country like this together. And it's true. Scuse me. It is true I think that because America is so diverse because we are a country of so many people from so

many different areas and so many different backgrounds and you know just everything imaginable. We desperately need something that holds us together. Once you get here you know. And certainly it is not race it's not background ethnicity culture religion or anything else. It should start with language and the the idea of a common language is important in the society. We are losing that we are losing that we are becoming a bilingual nation. And as I say that's not good. So when you put all of these things together and you recognize that we are as a nation we are essentially the last best hope of western civilization and that we are in a I believe a clash of civilizations with radical Islam on one side Western civilization on the other. Now if it's important and I think it's important to recognize that in any

conflict you have to know two things you have to know one who is your enemy. Exactly what makes them tick. What motivates them and to who are you. What are you all about. What motivates you. What are the principles upon which you stand. And I think that we are confused on both of those issues. Let me jump in with a bunch of follow ups for you Congressman and I know you didn't mean to say this it's a big big issue. I mean it's not just one little thing. You know immigration it's a huge issue and as you said you see it touching on education health care criminal justice national security and the very status of our culture. Lots of follow ups this one actually from an e-mail that we got this morning from Katherine right here in Concord She says Mr. Tancredo as a representative from Colorado can you deny that your state has benefited from many years of illegal immigration of Latinos especially in agriculture and construction. Doesn't this appear a trifle disingenuous to be so adamantly against immigration.

Well I would just say to Katherine and Concord congressman certainly there are businesses in my state as well as in every state in the nation that have benefited enormously from cheap labor. That is one of the reasons why we've been unable to do anything about it in the Congress for years now. I have faced two very significant problems in trying to bring about some sort of education immigration reform. One is called the Democratic party that sees massive immigration both legal and illegal as a source of voters either either now or potentially are potential voters. The other is the Republican party that sees massive immigration both legal and illegal as a source of cheap labor. And so those two forces have combined to stop any sort of immigration reform for a long long time. And when the. In this case the writer suggests that there are people who benefit from it. She's absolutely right but it's not the state in general it's not the country in general because cheap labor is

enormously expensive for the rest of us for the people who aren't the employers who benefit as a result of being low wages. We pay for it in all the ways I said earlier. I mean if you if you count the costs the infrastructural costs of illegal immigration in this country you will find it has been counted it has been. There are data available on this. And the costs are enormous and far outweigh what benefits we get from the labor itself and the taxes that are paid by the people who are employed there. You've heard businesses say. Congressman I know you've been in this issue for a long time that hey if 12 million or more illegal immigrants all of a sudden had to go home the economy would. Well certain sectors of the economy would collapse construction landscaping certainly agriculture. What do you say to those businesses who have a very deep concern about illegal immigration and their reliance upon it what they got to be concerned about is their reliance upon cheap labor.

It is a for the most part that's completely overblown the idea that any sector of the economy would actually collapse the best that we can determine from the Department of Labor that maybe 3.8 percent of the total labor force is made up of people who are here illegally. 3.8 percent that's right. So it's not that big. It's not that big a deal. And and again it's in sectors where. Let's take one example here. Have something here about all the time and that's the agricultural sector that's the biggest example. OK. And there is this desperate need for illegal labor because nobody will do the work. What nobody realizes or very few people realize anyway is this. We have something called an H-2 a program visa program and have had it for years. It's an agricultural worker visa. There are no caps you could bring in 10 million. There you go. Yeah absolutely legal aid. So why don't businesses do that. Because of course it's

you have to pay more than you would pay someone who was here illegally. You have to provide some sort of health insurance and you have to provide some sort of housing. And so your options are are to do that or hire the guy across the street who's willing to work for less and will go home at the end of the day don't bother. So we see only about 40000 of these H-2A visas out there when there are literally millions available. So no the system won't collapse. Crops will not rot in the field and we will survive this and blood will not run in the streets. If we were to actually rely on legal labor in this country. And one more question for this and then I definitely want to open it up to our callers again today in the exchange Republican presidential candidate Tom Tancredo is with us. He represents Colorado in the U.S. House the phone number on the exchange 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Email is exchange at NHP dot org. Here's an email Congressman Tancredo. This is Ted. He references a new York Times

article this morning about the movement of America's farmers operations to Mexico where they don't have to worry about illegal immigration. Not sure if you saw it or not. Basically the upshot was that large agricultural companies are moving to Mexico where labor force uncertainties don't exist. It says While there are benefits for Mexico as American farmers bring the latest technology and techniques to crop producing regions American farm state economists say thousands of middle class jobs supporting agriculture are being lost in the United States. So here you see these farm companies just going to Mexico. Well if of course this is again I think a threat that has not reached fruition. I mean some companies are doing that. But oftentimes you find and this has happened in other industries that moving to another country is not all that easy it's not all that. It's not it's cracked up to be. There are a lot of problems that are attendant to it and maybe it's better. And you know maybe it makes better economic sense to be doing that. And

that's why they are I would argue that it's a fascinating thing that even in light of all of the things we've heard about the disaster in our economy the movement of jobs and everything. We still have one of the highest manufacturing rates in the world in the United States of America. Worker productivity is higher than any other country in the world. Our standard of living of course is the idea that that the government can control this process but by granting a boon to one particular industry or not is I think it flies in the face of democratic capitalism and what really works here. The you know what will happen I think rather than moving the entire production to another country and agricultural production. I think you will see an enormous amount of optimization of the actual

Enterprise right now. Well a while back we did something called the Brasero program and we were told that if there was a program of where people came seasonally mostly from Mexico worked on the agricultural and agricultural area. And when we ended it we were told that that would be the end of the tomato growing industry in this country. Forget it. We could not possibly. They said it we're going to close down we're going move into Mexico all the same things. What we found was they simply automated and now they have machines that both plant tomatoes and harvest tomatoes. We are also seeing the growth of a tree of citrus trees that have a thicker bark and a more flexible stalk and then a machine that comes in and shakes the tree damage it so much. That's right and then return and picks the fruit in that way. Well that's what you will see I mean that's I think what will happen in

that area. But if they're saying the only way they survive is by illegal labor I think that they're being disingenuous. Let's go to our callers. Congressman the first call is Chuck from Concord. Good morning Chuck thanks for waiting you're on the air with Congressman Tancredo. Good morning sir. TANCREDO I do not believe the Republican Party will ever be a vehicle for a complete and total immigration reform. That is a 10 year moratorium on immigration stopping illegal aliens and illegal immigration. And the discontinuous thing is continuing the gravity of receiving these are asylum seekers and refugees into the United States we treat everything in American politics is the subtext of American politics. What's your question Chuck when not really getting your main point. It is a comment and a question. Here is a little bit more of a common ancestor with everything in American politics. The party leadership rich

boys who write the check understand how angry the average native born European Christian is our country turned into a multicultural world. Now we have a rich I mean George Bush laughing at people including the vigilantes to stop the destruction of our country. Well this sounds like someone who would be a supporter of yours. Someone frustrated by the Republican Party. Well and there are parties action on this. You're certainly not the only one that's frustrated at the Republican Party. Certainly I am and have been for years and have voiced it. Perhaps not quite as vociferously as you just did but I don't know I've heard some certainly voiced my displeasure with the party and with the president by the way and I don't. As you probably know I don't get along with the president and I am not invited to the White House and as a matter of fact Karl Rove once told me never to darken the doorstep of the White House. Those are his exact words and I haven't. Now he's gone. Who knows maybe I'll be able to go in. But I have absolutely no desire

to do so either because the issues I care about I don't believe there's any I agree with the caller in that respect I don't think there's no way that we're going to have a meeting of the minds. That is the president and me. So but I assure you caller that it is not just the Republican Party that's problematic here. I assure you that the Democratic Party sees this same phenomenon that we're describing here and looks at votes. They know people coming across into this country both as I say legally and illegally. The illegal eventually they think will be able to vote here. And and certainly illegal immigrants eventually getting their citizenship and can vote. They see them as replenishing the pool of voters. Tell you the party you're getting it from both. Sure. So it's not it's there. I have a difficult time with both parties. I assure you. But hey listen all we can do is all we can do.

Well get a political question for you congressman and a philosophical question on the politics of it. Some Republicans are concerned this is the other side of you and shock that you and others who are speaking out strongly against immigration are hurting the party standing. I read one quote from a top Republican official who said you know if people like Tom Tancredo keep it up there's no way the Republicans will win back Congress and will lose the White House. I would of course suggest that unless the Congress and the white red Republicans in the Congress started up just keep it up but just start it up. We won't win it back. You know there's an interesting election that we had in Arizona last time around where we actually we lost a couple of seats. One of an individual who was very supportive of our point of view on this and everybody said look this is an immigration issue immigration issue it killed him. Well in reality if you look a little closer he was killed by the fact that politically that is by the fact that he had taken about $100000 from a guy by the

name of Abramoff and it had nothing to do with immigration. And the other thing that no one wants to talk about or doesn't seem to want to understand is that in that same election there were four issues on the ballot for all of them put on by the people all of them were designed to crack down on illegal immigration. They were really tough. One was an English only thing right. They all passed with 70 percent of the vote. That was the minimum. OK. Forty seven percent of Hispanics voted for them. Now only for the English only and that was the average. As I understand it that was the average vote among Hispanics for those four four issues so I don't know which one got the most. But all I'm saying to you is that this idea that you if you talk about immigration reform you're going to lose seats. It's false. I mean most people in this country want immigration reform reform and will reward the party that provides it will punish the

ones that don't. And and maybe we're not going to get a huge majority of Hispanic votes. Maybe but we will get it. Suppose we got the 47 percent that voted that way in Arizona. Suppose that's Arizona with a very heavy percentage of the population being Hispanic right. And where the issue is is the hottest topic of the day. Well I think that we can certainly get our share of the Hispanic population in this country I mean certainly I know I get I mean anecdotally I can tell you I get literally thousands of calls and letters from people who are Hispanic and who say you know they don't speak for me meaning the people on the streets in Mayday Parades. So it's not quite as clear as people would like you to believe in terms of how this plays out politically. But I would suggest that there's empirical evidence to show that if you run on the policy of securing your borders of cracking down on illegal immigration of enforcing our immigration laws you will be rewarded at the polls if you don't if you run away from it.

You will be punished. Here's my philosophical question for you Congressman. It's often said that the US is a nation of immigrants we all take pride in the melting pot idea we're taught that is kids you taught High junior high school civics yourself. Right. And that part of our strength we're told comes from that history of many cultures and many languages and many ethnicities blending into one. How does your you know people have said Hey Tom Tancredo you know you're ignoring that rich proud history. Let me reiterate what my concerns are about present day immigration patterns both legal and illegal what we are witnessing is something quite different than what we witnessed earlier in the turn of the century of the last century turn of the last century and the periods of massive immigration into the country. Prior to that first of all we have always had a cyclical immigration pattern in this country. It's always been periods of very high immigration followed by periods of

very low immigration. We have used the periods of very low immigration to assimilate the people who came during the periods of very high. We have not had that for 40 some years. It has been a straight upward line. So are you saying we need to take a breather we need to take a breather and and we need the people coming to also want to assimilate to the extent that people want it to. And then when they came in those past waves. And that's not happening either. That's the difference. And that's a problem. Coming up after a break we'll get some personal biography of Congressman Tancredo and take more of your calls. This is the exchange on an HPR. Support for New Hampshire Public Radio comes from our members and from Cushing and sons well drilling experienced in the installation of geothermal open and close loop water heat pump wells for New Hampshire homes and businesses since 1972. From Weimann Chevrolet Pontiac and truck center in Hillsboro selling and servicing the Chevrolet commercial truck line for over

50 years. Chevrolet and American Revolution ad won in Sheffield on Kong and the Fras school at Plymouth State University offering bachelor degrees evenings weekends and online information at Plymouth dog Eddie use slash frost in. Norway Colorado congressman and Republican presidential candidate Tom Tancredo on the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. And at 10:00 on the Diane Rehm Show the latest on the race for the White House. This is New Hampshire Public Radio. This is the exchange I'm Laura Conaway. Tomorrow on the exchange we recap tonight's Republican presidential debate. And if you watch share your comments with us said exchange at HP board or of course call in tomorrow morning at 9:00. Today we're talking with Congressman Tom Tancredo of Colorado a candidate for the Republican presidential nomination. And Congressman let's go back to our callers to Langdon and Paul is on the line.

Go ahead Paul you're on the exchange. Congressman Tancredo Good morning. In almost all respects I've given money to English only programs. I wonder if perhaps you could talk rather specifically about George W. Bush's immigration proposal and if you were in the White House what would your legislation be George Bush's proposals always include some form of amnesty. They are focused on that. Sometimes he dresses them up with little to little bits of enforcement but they are at the bottom of it all. Amnesty for people who are presently here. I think that is a horrible horrible public policy. It only invites more illegal immigration. It's a slap in the face to every single person who has come into this country the right way to spend the time money and energy to go through the system. And it's sends a really weird message to

everybody waiting to come into this country the right way just tell them why don't you just sneak in. Don't worry you'll be given all of the same benefits as anyone who does it the right way. So it's lousy public policy. Therefore number one I would never propose any sort of amnesty and I don't really need any more legislation. I would simply enforce the laws that we have on the books we certainly the president has the power and the authority to go ahead and construct the barrier that's already been passed by Congress and all all objections in the bill itself. Even environmental things the secretary of Homeland Security can waive in order to get this done. We have all of the legislative tools in place. We have the ability and the president has the ability to turn to the secretary of homeland interior and to the Department of Justice and say you will enforce our laws you will go after employers who are illegally hiring people who are here without or without papers. We will secure the border and we will identify those people in this country

who don't go home and we will as I said earlier deport them. That's the law and we will devote the resources necessary to get that done but it is not. Frankly it's not that big a job when you consider that if you take care of the first part the employer part you actually cut off the ability of employers to hire illegal aliens. You will see as is happening by the way in Colorado because of a Colorado law that goes after employers. We are seeing a significant reduction of the number of illegal immigrants in the state. It's reported in the newspaper all the time. They're going home and not just different states. They're going home to Mexico to Guatemala Honduras the ones that don't go home that's the ones of course you're going to have to deal with through the legal system. But what we can do it and I definitely will. Well thanks for the call and let me just ask you real briefly Congressman about the amnesty comment. Is an editorial from USA Today. They say some amnesty under Bush's bill egal illegal immigrants would have to pay fines of fees and more than 9000 have to prove

they're working. I have no criminal record. Learn English American civics have to return home to their home country and apply for citizenship. They're taking a green card to get take eight years citizen ship at least 13 so they say amnesty. Well just because those things are that they are identified in that bill first of all it's not when you clarify them when you actually look deep read it and say What do you mean you have to go home. It means that in the bill that we had before us before. It meant a weekend trip down to Mexico. You essentially touch base put your foot over the line and there would be a place right there where you put your papers in to come back and you come back into the United States and go right back to work. That's not a penalty. You know the idea of having a job making sure they have a job for a certain period of time. That's not a penalty. The thing for which they came for the most part was a job that is not any sort of thing that that is that can be thought of as a negative because you came here illegally.

And it boils down to this. They came illegally they came illegally the you know if you allow them to stay even with a small fine or with these other little jumping a couple of hoops here you are in fact saying to the rest of the world that that's the way you come into this country. If that's the way we want to do it why don't we just simply say send us a check. Do you want to come to the United States send a check as soon as it clears you can come. Congressman I got one more question for you on this and I do want to get a biographical sketch of you because New Hampshire voters don't know you that well it has been said that your presidential campaign is less about Tom Tancredo being president and more about just pushing your party on this issue. U.S. News and World Report even quoted you as saying it's delusional to think that you could win the presidency. So what's this really about Congressman. Well this campaign it is undeniably true and I stated every time I get the opportunity that the thing that pushed me into this

decision was what we've talked about here and is the fact that I believe this issue is of overriding importance to America. Once you however take that step once you actually say I'm going to run for president then you're going to run for president then you better do everything necessary you're not going to just make a statement you know. You know do everything you can and go to Iowa and go to New Hampshire and people and go to the debates and try and see whether or not you can number one yes influence the debate and we certainly I guarantee you that if nothing else has happened if I accomplish nothing else in this process I guarantee you I have influenced the debate because now I see almost every person on that stage sounding like Tom Tancredo when it comes to immigration. But the flat tax is a bunch of years ago he influence the debate that's good and that would be good but it's not the end result I want. You know I actually

want change in policy and I believe that in order to get that I'm going to have to be president of the United. So you do want to be president. This isn't just about pushing the party on an election. Now that's a different kind of question in a way. When you say do you want to be president. That's a little different. OK. I need to be president in order to get done the things that I need to do. But I have to tell you my heart of hearts that the office itself has no great allure. It just doesn't. It's not that I don't wake up in the morning thinking oh gosh you know if only I could be president of the United States and I could do. I really don't feel that way. It is it is the place I have to go in order to do the job that needs to be done. And that's the way I feel about it. So when you say to you to me you know you really want to be president of the United States. It's hard to answer that question in the affirmative unless you understand what I'm really trying to put across here.

I want to ask you just a couple personal questions and in the interests of time I don't think I'll ask all of the ones that I had wanted to because I want to get back to callers too but just a couple biographical questions for you. Congressman Tancredo you're your lifelong Colorado resident. Yes a state I personally have never visited but I've been told it's wonderful. You're a grandson of Italian immigrants. What's there coming to America story. My grandparents my my grandfather my father's father is by far the most interesting story because his parents died in Italy when he was nine and he was left with an aunt who kept him for a couple of months and then put a tag on him that said My name is Joe Tancredo please send me to so-and-so in Iowa and then put him on a boat. And nine years old by himself 1894 by himself gets off the boat. Of course there was no one there to pick him up and he couldn't speak English and so he was telling the people in Ellis Island you know I don't know what it

had this tag on. And there we're going to send him back because there was no one there to get him and he was too young to just be just let go. They put him on. They put him in quarantine quarantine area where he met another family an Italian family who's one of their kids and had a fever and so they were in quarantine and he was telling her the Lady of the family his plight saying I don't know what I don't have no one here and I have no one back there. No one wants me and the lady said well I'll sign for you. Knowing that evidently that's all it took. And so she did in fact sign for him and got him from Ellis Island to New York City at which time she said well Joe good luck. I think Iowa is that way. And she is because the ocean this way and you know so two and one half years later he ended up in Denver Colorado age 11 or 12. At this point and he started to work of course a little bit in it in New York but then moved out across. And I remember him. I knew him. I talked to him. He died when he was 94 years old.

And I remember asking him once Grandpa what happened to Iowa. And he said to me I got here it took one look at the Rocky Mountains and I said if I was passed that the heck with it I don't know to this day whether it was you know whether he was being truthful that he just missed Iowa entirely or he got there didn't like it and kept going. I'm not sure. I don't know which. But but that that's the most interesting story of the of the four they all came from Italy. He sent for. He sent for his wife to whom he had been betrayed by the way before he left Italy at age you didn't know who she was but he knew her that knew that that's what he was supposed to marry so sent for her when she was. She was quite a bit older than than he was. And then my other grandparents came and worked on a mine in. But my grandfather mother grandfather came who worked in a mine in Leadville. I mean in Lewisville Colorado then sent for his wife same way so it was not very dramatic except for my.

And as I say my grandfather's store when and that is a great story and what strikes me about that Congressman. It was pretty easy for him to get in. It was he had to do was sign it was easy for everybody. I mean there were no it was you know remember that we only have had this thing called illegal immigration. I mean or a legal process for about well since the 1920s and early 19th maybe 1910 1920 in there when we actually established something like that before that you have to understand you got here. That was it. That's all there was to it. You just got here so you got here. There was no you know there was no illegal and you came through. You came through a port usually you were screened for health reasons. It was a very cursory screening process but that was it. Here's the devil's advocate question for you Congressman. Your grandparents had it easy came in were able to prosper land of opportunity why shouldn't people today have that same opportunity. People suffering in Guatemala or Mexico or wherever.

The I always say I've always said that. People. My grandparents came for the same reason people come today and that is for a better life a better opportunity. But my grandparents also came at least three of them did. With this other strong desire and that was to cut from cut the ties of the past and attached to the new There was this really big push always I can remember so clearly my grandparents talking about this all the time. First of all they had to learn English. My my parents were not allowed to speak Italian in our home in their home. That's unfortunate I'm not saying that's a good thing. I'm just pointing it out as an example of the strong desire they had to cut the ties from the past and connect to the new. They wanted to become Americans. They did not want to retain any political especially political I mean there was no political loyalties to anything else but the United States. When I grew up I was taught that

I was an American there was no I mean an Italian background and ethnicity but I was an American. That's what I'm talking about in terms of assimilation. We can certainly have immigration but we need assimilation to go along with it. And it's not happening. Slesinger talked about what happens when there isn't assimilation. It's a very bad thing for a country. Why is it so difficult for people to get that idea. What is it that makes me racist. Because I say that we need to assimilate people. And I am talking about people of all races of all colors of all ethnicities. You know I know people throw that term around at me all the time and or a xenophobe. But the reality is my position position I've taken steadfastly for the length of time that I've talked about this which is now a long time is that America can has assimilated people of every single

background. It's a process by which you know you have to have two things you have to have pressure on our side for that to happen and you have to have a desire for it from the people coming. They have to want to assimilate. Well Congressman I wanted to ask you about your time as a high school teacher junior high teacher and so forth. But I think I'm going to move into some other areas that are important to the presidency and also invite our callers. Again the exchange number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Today in the exchange Republican presidential candidate Tom Tancredo was with us since 99. He's represented Colorado in the U.S. House. You can join us at 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or e-mail exchange at NHP arg. Congressman we've got some callers you've been waiting patiently. Let's go back to them and Jessica is calling from Concord. Hi Jessica. Go ahead you're on the air. Thank you so much. Good morning. Good morning Jessica. Recently several former government officials including Henry Kissinger have called for the quote reassertion of the vision of a nuclear free world

of nuclear weapons. What is your vision of the role of nuclear weapons. OK. Jessica thank you. I really am a Reaganite when it comes to that. I mean I believe that you should negotiate down to zero as long as you can. The problem is that you are. It's a different world in which we now find ourselves in a different challenge toward negotiations. You can negotiate with countries and you can negotiate the amount of nuclear weapons that a country is going to have in the stockpile that they're going to maintain and you can negotiate that downwards which you can't negotiate of course is a terrorist with a terrorist who is trying to put it together someplace and get it into your country. So the the task that you have of course is to deal with that phenomenon that's much more of a of a that's a more distinct possibility. You can negotiate with a

nation state but not with the terrorists. It's a more distinct possibility that you will be on the receiving end of a terrorist weapon than you would even today from from another state. So does that mean hold on to a couple just in case or what. Well it means I think negotiate down to the extent possible with every country around but there may be and this is pretty controversial I know but there may be a continued need for the threat of a nuclear deterrent as a threat to a nuclear attack even by radical Islam. You suggested this is related to that question a few weeks back that the best way to deter such a nuclear terrorist attack on the U.S. is to threaten to bomb Islamic holy sites. You know Congressman you don't need me to tell you this. This caused quite a stir. Can you explain your remarks there. Sure. And actually it wasn't the first time I said it. I don't know if I've seen it in a couple of the the couple of years ago actually it was. There was a question to me on a radio

program and it was what would you do if a new and radical Islamist set off a nuclear device one or more nuclear devices in the United States and I said Well what we have to do is think of what would stop that. How could you stop that. And one way from happening in the events from happening in the first place and so one thing you might want to put on the table as a deterrent is the idea that if if they do that if you can trace it to them then of course then you can respond. You would respond by taking out their holy sites. This did cause quite a response you're absolutely right. And the more the more antagonistic people were about it especially in middle east and believe me there was plenty of protests. I was hung in effigy and burned in effigy in a variety of places throughout the Middle East but and in in Pakistan in particular I remember the. But the reality is that you have to find something

something that actually will deter a person from doing what we have established as a possibility. And as I always say if that's not it fine. I'm more than willing to hear what you have to say is a deterrent but just trying to get them just always trying to identify them. And you know where they are kill them where they are or stop them once they get here. We are not going to be able to do that 100 percent of the time even the president has said in the past and he's right that we have to be right 100 percent of the time. We only have to be lucky once. Well those are lousy odds. We always we're going to you know if you do not think of a deterrent then I guarantee you you will have the event I guarantee it. And so and so the the. I do not Nessus and I certainly never said by the way the use of nuclear weapons to do that I said you know to attack the holy sites because that's a I mean what you're dealing with someone who is motivated by religious reasons. You have to think about something that might

dissuade them because of those religious reasons based on the same grounds. Tensions are already so high with the Islamic world and the United States. The State Department said called your comments outrageous reprehensible. You know just basically look Congressman Tancredo things are already bad. You're making them worse by saying well if we are not facing the possibility of of some sort of nuclear attack on the United States I mean everybody knows it's true. I read the national intelligence estimates every time they come out and as a matter of fact to have one in my folder over there. And when you read them you recognize that these are there are people trying to destroy the United States of America. I know people don't like listening to that don't like thinking about the possibility but it is true that this president I would have to deal with that. And so you know your are our need to defend this nation my need as president to defend this

nation supersedes everything including making some people mad at you in the process. I am going to defend the country and if that and I am going to try my best to deter any sort of attack and a catastrophic attack on this country. Look you know I've said this and I want to say it again if someone can present to me a better deterrent and underlined deterrent then I'll happily take it. But right now it's the best thing I've heard. Let's go back to the phones to Londonderry where Emily's been waiting a long time. Emily thanks for hanging on the line. Good morning Emily. My understanding combating climate change is not one of your top priorities on the campaign but recent poll research has shown that 82 percent of Republican primary voters are taking action now to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. So my question to you is under Tancredo administration how would you rate your

overall warming pollution for the technology and conservation rather than continue on the path that we are on. EMILY Thank thank you and I absolutely agree that we have to move away and but maybe it's a little bit of a different reason than you think. The fact is we have to move away from using carbon fuels because that's a national security issue. Our reliance on those fuels on oil in particular is a national security problem for us. We end up having to import it from countries that are not very friendly. So I want to move as quickly as possible to alternative fuels certainly I want to rely I would rely heavily on on an investment in nuclear energy I believe it's clean and relatively safe. And I believe that and biofuels all the rest of it have to be explored and and promoted as much as possible because movement away from fossil fuels is a national imperative.

It's a national security issue. In turn by the way it will certainly reduce carbon. I've for the last question for you Congressman these last questions concern pure politics where the race goes from here. The major Democratic candidates have all signed a pledge as I'm sure you know promising not to campaign in states like Florida Michigan that are messing with the Democratic National Committee's calendar that sets up Iowa Nevada New Hampshire South Carolina as the first round. Are Republicans considering a similar pledge. And what do you make of this pledge. I know other Republicans maybe nobody has contacted us as sort of a hey you ought to get together and sign a pledge on this thing. Frankly my focus to tell you the truth is on two states Iowa and New Hampshire. We wish that we had a lot more time between those two states and the next ones that are coming up because when you're when you are in the second tier and you don't have $100 million you rely on the momentum that you can build in the first two states

to catapult you into that next set of events. So there is no organized effort of which I am aware on the part of the Republicans in this thing to say no we won't participate. I just know that like I say for those of us who have to press the flesh and the only way we can do it the only way we can get to know people and have the possibility of having our candidacy move ahead is to do it in states like Iowa and New Hampshire. That's why all of our focus is here. And how has your immigration message been received here in New Hampshire. Congressman given that illegal immigration let's face it is not a huge issue here in the Granite State. Well I don't know whether or not it's just just the people who come to see me because they know that you know I know how I feel about the issue. But every single event that I go to without exception I'm not saying every event when I say questions you know how many questions after I get done opening my questions inevitably the first second and third question are

about immigration related issues. And this happens by the way in every state certainly happened that way in Iowa. And so I have a feeling that it's an issue that is on the minds of a lot of people out there and it doesn't matter that you know you're not a border state. I think they see what I see in terms of the culture itself and what is the overall picture that I tried to paint here and of my kinds of seriousness. I think that we should all understand. One last question for you on this issue as you know there is a proposal a bill in the New Hampshire legislature to make New Hampshire a sanctuary state where you know local police officers are told not to go after the check the documentation of people who may be illegal. Are you going to comment about that. I am the president I'm actually going to. Well I'm going to come in at about it in about I think a couple of hours we're going to have a press conference. And on that very issue

it is a very bad idea for New Hampshire to become a sanctuary state. It is a very bad idea for any city to contemplate becoming like a sanctuary city. I just came from a city where you know a week or so ago I went to Newark where they had on a most horrible horrible crime committed three young people three young black people were killed. A fourth was seriously injured by a group three of whom were illegal aliens and those three of them are at least two of them had come in contact with the police in Newark before had not been reported to the immigration authorities because they were a sanctuary city and ended up killing other people. I'm telling you when sanctuary city status or or state status status invites a lot of problems. All right Congressman I don't have time for a follow up there but I really appreciate your time and we'll be watching you

tonight on the presidential debate starting at 9:00 on Fox. We look for the very guy on the very end as usual. Congressman thanks a lot. Pleasure. Thank you. Tom Tancredo Republican presidential candidate and congressman from Colorado. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio producer Steve Fraley The engineer Dan COLGAN But the music was composed by Bob Ward Exchange's executive producer Keith shields and I'm Laura