The Exchange; Interview with Bob Smith on his Presidential candidacy for the U.S. Taxpayer's Party

He's been called a quitter selfish or a failed messenger. But New Hampshire Senator Bob Smith says he's also received thousands of letters phone calls and e-mails in support of his recent defection from the Republican Party. I'm Laura. And coming up next an the exchange Senator Smith is our guest. His presidential campaign continues. He's expected to win the U.S. taxpayers party nomination in September. Smith says his message will be simple conservatives come home. You know you're pro-life pro-Second Amendment and you support the sovereignty of the United States. You don't like all of your tax dollars going to the IMF and other groups if you'd like to see the elimination of the income tax. Then join me. Stay with us for the exchange. Right after the news on New Hampshire Public Radio. From National Public Radio News in Washington I'm Carl Kasell. The massive earthquake in western Turkey has struck in the middle of the night. It measured seven point eight on the Richter scale. The death toll now stands at at least 500 with

some 2500 people injured. Rescuers have been digging frantically to free people trapped in the rubble. Reporter Chris Morris is in Ankara one of several major cities hit. There is a lot of chaos in some areas particularly when the off the shelf. That being some pretty strong aftershocks already and that's making people yet more nervous. The prime minister has that of people to be calm and said this The state will provide. But people clearly are feeling extremely disoriented. People who rushed from their homes in panic at 3:00 o'clock in the morning and don't know when they will be able to go back. Some of course don't know when or if they'll ever see. Friends and relatives again the hardest hit area appeared to be the industrial city of Izmit where an oil refinery is in flames. Dozens of buildings collapsed in Istanbul where Energy Secretary Bill Richardson was holding talks on gas and oil pipeline projects. The U.S. embassy says he was not hurt nor was joint chiefs chairman Henry Shelton who was visiting Ankara. International relief

agencies say they're ready to help but they're awaiting a request from the government. Consumer prices rose last month by three tenths percent. The Labor Department says that the moderate increase came about despite a sharp rise in gasoline prices and the fast rise of airline fares the fastest in six years. The July increase followed two straight months in which prices remain frozen. July's inflation report was in line with many analysts expectations and was expected to further ease inflation concerns the three tenths per cent increase in the Consumer Price Index was the biggest since a 17 percent increase back in April. The governor of Pennsylvania has ordered the lockdown of the entire state prison system following the second escape of a convicted murderer in as many weeks. From member station w h y y. MARTIN Wells has this report on August 2nd four time convicted murderer Norman Johnston put a makeshift dummy in his bunk crawled across the prison yard and then cut his way through chain link and barbed wire fences to freedom. He's still at large.

Yesterday two more inmates another convicted murderer and an arsonist broke out of a different Pennsylvania prison. They also remain on the loose saying he needs to be assured the integrity of the prison system has not been compromised. Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge ordered a lockdown and search of all 25 state prisons inmates who remain locked in their cells indefinitely. In addition state police will conduct round the clock patrols outside each prison perimeter. The governor says the patrols will continue until he's convinced security systems are operating the way they should. For NPR News I'm Martin wells in Philadelphia. This is NPR News. Republican Lamar Alexander yesterday became the first candidate to drop out of the upcoming presidential race. I need a bug. Member station W.P. and reports still smiling and shaking hands Alexander looked like he was still running yesterday but the former Tennessee governor said it was time to face the facts at this stage in the campaign. As much as my heart tells me I'd like to go on I realistically can't do it. And the primary

reason is is money at the beginning of July. Alexander had only $90000 on hand versus George W. Bush's more than 37 million. To save money Alexander cut staff and placed all his resources in Iowa. When he finished sixth in Saturday's straw poll his run was over. Alexander told the few supporters present yesterday that the focus on money in the early rush to judgment forced him out of the race. Alexander says he will not endorse another candidate at least not yet. For NPR News I'm a to bug in Nashville. The U.S. Senate Democratic leader and fellow farm state Senator Webb just returned from a visit to Cuba. Both say Americans and Cubans could benefit from an easing of barriers to the sale of food and drugs to the island. Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle of South Dakota is the highest ranking elected U.S. official to visit Cuba in years. He and Senator Byron Dorgan of North Dakota began their three day visit on Friday nine days after the Senate voted to allow essentially unrestricted food and drug sales to the island. The fate of the amendment will be decided by House

Senate conferees. Daschle and Dorgan say Cuban officials called them the country imports almost a billion dollars in food and medicine and that food imports could almost double in five years. I'm Carl Kasell. NPR News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from the state of Michigan featuring 11 Tax-Free Renaissance zones 1 800 9 4 6 6 8 2 9 or w w w dot M-I dash smart dot com. Support for the exchange comes from our contributing listeners at AG Edwards Sons with offices in Claremont Concord Hanover County Nashua New London and Portsmouth investments since 1887 members NYSE and SIPC Una Manchester University's urban campus offering a degree and professional programs for people who live and work in the Merrimack Valley. Classes begin September 2nd and Angelas pasta and cheese shop Manchester now offering catering at home or office pick up available information at 6 2 5 9 5 4 4 from New Hampshire Public Radio.

I'm Laura Conaway and this is the exchange. New Hampshire Senator Bob Smith has a new political home. The U.S. taxpayers party in September he'll seek the party's nomination for president and is pretty much guaranteed to get it. Smith left the Republican party last month and recently announced his new affiliation. In many ways the U.S. taxpayers party seems a good fit for Smith. It would ban abortion dramatically cut government strengthen the military and oppose gun control. All is Shoesmith promoted as a conservative Republican in some areas though the U.S. taxpayers party is different from the GOP calling for an end of the income tax for example and for U.S. withdrawal from the United Nations. Smith says he supports those principles but there are other pieces of the taxpayer's party he might like to change. New Hampshire Senator Bob Smith is our guest today in exchange and we'll talk about the U.S. taxpayers party and why he's decided to join it. We'll also discuss his work in the Senate on the issues of the day and whether the change of party affects what he can do for New Hampshire

in Congress. We want your questions and comments to of course join us at 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. And Senator Smith Welcome back to the Exchange. Thank you for having me. Laura it's always a pleasure. How has life been in the Senate since you switch parties. How are people treating you. Former colleagues friends well you know I've had better better months. But you know it's the same Bob Smith the same guy as I said on the Senate floor the I'm still a classic Coke labels different but it's it's interesting most. Most people have been real nice about it on a personal level. The leadership is they're not happy. But you know it's I think they need to understand that all I've done is is put an eye next to my name. I'm not. I'm not voting any differently. As a matter of fact as you probably read last

week or just before we went out for the recess about two weeks ago I guess now the there was a vote on the Republican tax cut proposal put proposal which passed 50 to 49. Well I voted with the Republicans not because they were Republicans but because it was a tax cut and I support tax cuts. But it's interesting that for Republicans quote unquote voted with the Democrats. I've not heard one criticism from any of the people that have been laying on me pretty hard here in this state and nationally no criticism of the Republicans who voted against the Republican plan and it passed by one vote and I voted for it. And yet you know for Republicans deserted and voted the other way. So you know the whole idea that somehow you have to have a party label is really ridiculous. It's exactly why I left. It's petty it's it's non-productive and I hold no animosity. I say I'm the same person but I could not continue to participate in a process which is a sham.

I'll say it bluntly as I can. You have consultants and pollsters who who tell you what to say they even give you the lexicon. I can tell you there's a pamphlet that they gave out to us a year or so ago saying when you're talking to Laura annoy and you know NPR New Hampshire Public Radio they would say NPR there are certain types of listeners here and because you've got a lot of the perhaps liberal listeners you better make sure that you use these words and use these words these are less offensive you know come on. I mean leadership is taking a position. I know there are a lot of listeners out here who will disagree with me on most of the issues that you mentioned and some will agree but that's ok. I mean that's America that's politics that's what it's about. But it shouldn't be about not talking about these issues or ignoring them or hiding from them an issue like abortion which is very controversial of course it is. But so was slavery controversial. And Lincoln didn't hide from it. Supposing Lincoln had said well you know I don't I'm opposed

to slavery personally but if people want to own a few That's OK with me but I didn't say that. So he led he took a he took a position and I respect people's I'll respect to the death the right people to disagree with me. But I also believe that you should in politics talk to people let them know how you feel. That's why I've always been and I don't I don't think a party that says that takes polls and hires consultants to tell you what to do and what to think and what to say. And we're leading we're being led by polls not by leaders. And that's in my view not good for the country. When you say it's a sham do you mean specifically the presidential process or more just the way politics in Congress and everything works in general in general. It's not. I mean a lot of I want to clarify one thing because it's been reported inaccurately as you know I when I gave my speech on the Senate floor in mid-July and resigned from the Republican Party a lot of people thought at the time that I was doing it to run for president that was not true.

I made the decision independently of that. I had no intentions whatsoever of running for the presidency at the time. I was a candidate. But I mean obviously once I leave the Republican Party I can't run in the Republican primaries. I had no at that time any plans to run for any nomination and third party or otherwise. But subsequent to that I've been you know I've been talking to the delegates many delegates and leaders of the taxpayers party have come to me and asked me to do this and I've agreed to go to St. Louis and that's where they're are their nominating convention is. But I also want to say I have not become a member of that party. You know I've been a member of Republican Party for 50 years. I'm not about to jump into another party as a member. I'm an independent. I want to stay an independent for a while. I've indicated to that party that I would be willing to accept their nomination if they want maybe as an independent but not not as a formal member of any particular party right now. But I do support their platform for the most part. There are some differences but

but I you know and that's pretty much the way I want it right now because I want some time to just think it through. I think George Washington when he warned us in his farewell address about political parties he said sometimes they'd be coming in of themselves and that they become self-sustaining they forget what principles they were organized for. And it becomes a game of winning over principle. He didn't say it exactly that way but that's in essence what he meant. And I I agree and I think that we've got to stand up for principle. And I'm not saying that many people in the party don't. Many do but I find it pretty interesting that you can be criticized for changing the are two and I and as you well know in this state. Laura you've been a long time political observer. No Republican wins any election in New Hampshire unless he has independent votes. So when you attack Bob Smith for being an independent you attack every voter out there. When I'm told I can't go to this event or that event then every independent in the state of New Hampshire who attends a

Republican event is also disinvited. In my view and therefore I think the whole argument is bogus and frankly not good for the Republican Party if that's what they're worried about. I want to ask you about the U.S. taxpayers party and their platform and your interest in it but just a couple more questions about time about leaving the Republican Party because it's a big deal. You know you remember that party for a long time a few years you said when your shot out of events or not invited to events that's an insult to other independents. Has that happened a lot. Have you been you know left out of party caucuses or party events or strategy sessions in Congress. I haven't I haven't been asked to go to any any party event any any caucus any strategy session. How is that for you. Well you know I I knew I expected there would be some pettiness after this. I made it very clear to the leaders in Congress that I would be willing to caucus with them and willing to

participate in their caucuses and in their strategy sessions that I wasn't planning to change any votes. I'm certainly not going to join the Democratic Party and that I felt that. It's interesting my voting record with the Republican Party was ninety nine point nine percent which was higher than any Republican senator. And again using the other example that I just gave where Republicans all of the time. I mean we had 10 Republicans go with the Democrats on the impeachment vote. I wasn't one of them. We had five four Republicans go with the Democrats on the vote on the tax cuts. I wasn't one of them. We had many Republicans go with the Democrats on the gun control. I wasn't one of them. So I'm not sure what the point is. So why go after you. Well I mean I don't care. I mean I don't want to. I'm not complaining. I just want to know you asked me the question and I'm answering it but I am not complaining. I just think it shows to me what's wrong with the two party system and the fact that somebody has to have an R already next to their name to

run for political office. It's an outrage. I mean that is not democracy. You should be able to a person. I mean Jesse Ventura who I don't agree with on the issues for the most part but I give him a lot of credit. He said look you know there's not just two. I mean two parties to two and I'm a third guy. I'm an independent I want to run and he does and they said well they laugh ha ha ha. Jesse Ventura 1 percent but they call him governor right now because and he's right about that. You should vote he said and he's absolutely right. When you vote if you vote for somebody you believe in because that person represents what you believe in your vote is never wasted. And don't let anybody ever tell you that it is. So I think it's wrong to say that the only way anybody should have a chance to run for political office is if you're locked into one of the two major parties. I don't think that's true. The Republican Party was not a major party in 1856 when John C. Fremont was the first Republican candidate he lost. And then along came Lincoln.

And why did the Republican Party emerge because the Whig party refused to speak out against slavery and they decided it was more important to win elections rather than antagonize the the pro slavery forces and they became they went onto the Ashbourne of history. And I think a great party and the Republican Party I believe has been a great party as has the Democrat Party been a great party but to remain a great party. You cannot walk away from the core issues of your platform. And that's in my view what's happening I don't want to be too long winded here let me quickly say the issue of all of these federal agencies the Department of Education Department of Commerce HUD Department of Energy all of these national endowment of the arts which I know creates controversy here. But all of those entities are in the Republican platform as being non governmental functions they should not be part of this. They say in their plan the platform they're unconstitutional and they ought not to be continued. Every one of them has grown under the Republican Congress not only have they not been eliminated. They've grown. I had an amendment to eliminate the the

funding for the national down to the arts. Ninety nine million dollars it was defeated by 84 to 16. So the Republicans obviously didn't vote for it. So they're not staying true to their platform and that's fine. Don't don't take it out of the platform then. And it's the same thing with abortion. It's gun control you name it it's in the platform but it's not in the voting records of the majority of Republicans. And frankly we were encouraged not to talk about controversial issues because we may lose. That's not my style of leadership. What reassurance Senator Smith Can you give the people of New Hampshire that you're leaving the majority will not hurt their interests and in Congress and your effectiveness as their U.S. senator in Congress. Well I think the people of this state know me and if it means that you have to be a member of a political let's use this let's take that that's a very good question. Let's use it let's let's fast forward to an election in 2002. If Bob Smith is running let's assume I'm still in the Republican Party and just for the sake of argument it's just Smith versus

shaking. And if you win a Senate race just just for the sake of argument. So if we use that argument that effectiveness as a Republican in the Republican Party is is the main issue then we shouldn't vote for shame because she knew she'd be in the minority party likely never. Not necessarily. But let's just assume the Democrats are a minority. So then why vote for Shaheen because Smith's in the majority he's effective he can do this. The truth of the matter is that's a bogus argument. You should not refuse to vote for Shaheen or anybody else because of that you would vote for the person you believe best represents your views. And I think that seniority in the Senate does have an impact. There's no question about it but it doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be in any particular party. I'm still on the Armed Services Committee. I'm a senior member of that committee and I think anybody will tell you that the last three days Monday. Yesterday Today and tomorrow I'm traveling all over the state talking about monies that we've gotten money in Manchester for the combined sewage overflow $20 billion

in the authorization bill. We've got money for. And Millford for a pond that's full of full of milfoil millions or hundreds of millions of dollars for the highway trust fund money for defense contractors. This is not going to stop because Bob Smith is still a very senior member of the of the of the Senate and I still have relationships and friends that in the various committees that's not going to stop people are not going to punish the state of New Hampshire for that. Where am I. And you've been able to keep your committee chairmanships and said so far so far. And I could lose those. But I think it's a mistake for the Republicans to do that because but if they do it so be it. I mean I'm prepared for that. If they want to be that petty about it I'm prepared for it. But I I'm proud of the fact that I can say with a straight face and keep my head up that that I've done when I entered the Republican Party on principle and I left it on principle. And I I'm I'm not.

I think it left me it hasn't been a happy month. But you know you know you having terms like when you're a state chairman we're a party that I've served in this state for 15 years actually longer but 15 as an elected official says that I should be hung. I'm not sure those are appropriate words but I don't care. I mean because it's more important than the party chairman the party chairman. In my view irrelevant to the process. What's more important is what's more important are the issues what we're going to do as a party are we going to end abortion in this country are we going to end gun control in this country. Are we going to stop the the loss of the sovereignty of the United States with tens of billions of dollars flowing into China most favored nation status. All of these things are being supported. Unfortunately M.F. and IMF all buy by Republicans and that's a mistake. That's what we should be talking about not the fact that Bob Smith chooses to have an eye next to his name rather than an R who votes the same way and who frankly there isn't any Republican

critic in this state that could hold a candle to me on the on the votes for the Republican platform. And they know it and we'll talk about those issues in just a moment. You're listening to the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. I'm Laura Conroy our guest today New Hampshire Senator Bob Smith. Senator Smith recently announced he's seeking the presidential nomination of the U.S. taxpayers party and he's widely expected to get it. Smith left the Republican party last month. Today we're talking about that and also about issues before the U.S. Senate including health care gun control the budget surplus and so on. We'd like your phone calls your questions and comments for Senator Smith. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. BOB SMITH By the way is in the middle of his second term. He was first elected to the Senate in 1990. Before that he was a U.S. congressman representing New Hampshire's first district and was a high school teacher. Again the exchange phone number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. It's your chance to talk with New Hampshire Senator Bob Smith.

Senator Smith let's talk about the U.S. taxpayer part in some of those issues that you say the Republican Party has abandoned. Why are the U.S. taxpayers party. Well first first of all you have. If I'm going to run for president again this was they came to me and asked me if I would consider it. I read their platform. I don't agree with everything. But there are some things that I think we can remove from the platform that I don't agree with but for the most part in general I do agree with it. And so I have an affinity with the platform number one. Number two the fact that it's so difficult to get ballot access. I mean it costs millions and millions of dollars to get it on the ballot in 50 states. You don't have a lot of options you have the Reform Party Libertarians Republicans Democrats and the taxpayers party for the most part the taxpayer party in 1996 had access had ballot access in 39 states. I believe we can get to 50. There are some tough states though California for example

which they have the ballot line on requires almost 200000 notarized signatures. That's a huge endeavor to do New Hampshire on the contrary to get my name on the ballot requires 15 hundred signatures to get a party on the ballot requires I think 10000 signatures. I'm not certain of that but I believe it's 10. And so it's it's a tremendous effort to get on the ballot. So where you start off with about 12 to 15 states on the ballot and you have a good opportunity because having been on the ballot in other states before you know the process the chances of getting on the ballot are much better. So the answer to your question is one ballot access into infinity with the platform. How and when did this party get started anyway. I think it started and I believe it was 92. It's I think it's eight years old but I'm not 100 percent sure I think it's eight years old. And why why did they decide to form a separate party instead of going with one of the major. I think there's a there's a lot of frustration out there about the major part as I hear it everywhere I mean every time I would speak to a Republican audience as I campaigned around the country

you know there's a lot of frustration that conservatives are shut out. I always use the analogy of rather than a third party I think there's one political party in this country today and you may be shocked to hear me say that but I believe that and I would coin of term and call it the model Krach which is basically moderate Republicans and Democrats they tend to stick together on the votes in the Senate and the House. And when they want to defeat something they can gang up and defeat it. And when they want to win they can gang up and win. If those two forces combine the moderate Republicans and the Democrats now locked into that party or the conservatives were kind of they keep us in a little and a little fence you know a little corral down and down in a corner and every four years is you ok conservatives you guys come on out now and we go out there or ring the doorbell. Help us raise the money help us elect some moderate somewhere and then we'll put you back in. And we don't want you to talk about abortion for the next four years. Don't talk about gun control because you know all these shootings and people you know that we might lose votes will definitely lose votes on abortion. Don't talk about the most favored nation status for China because too many Republicans support

that and that's divisive. And so they round this up put us back in the corral throw us a little food and then let us out again every four years to help. You know we did it for Bob Dole we did it for George Bush. The conservative Reagan revolution ended with the election of George Bush. I voted for George Bush Sr. with enthusiasm because he was loyal to Ronald Reagan and I believed that he deserved the shot because he had been loyal to President Reagan and I'd hope that he would continue that revolution. But when he broke his promise on the tax cuts everything went downhill from there. And we win and we're at our best when we when we run on principle. Gingrich in 94 where with the Contract With America 10 or 12 very clearly enunciated items we ran on principle we won on principle Reagan. We ran on principle in eighty one we ran on principle and in 84 with Reagan we won. We went out of a way from principle in 92 we lost. We went away from principle 96 we lost. And if we go away from principles in the year 2000 a lot of experts are

saying that we'll lose again. And because a lot of people would not participate. You know one of the most deceptive figures is when you hear that. I don't know 75 percent of such and such a group votes for somebody. But what they don't tell you is only 25 percent of that group are actually voting. And the voter turnout in this country is very low. And and conservatives were not enthusiastic about Bob though and frankly most of them didn't vote. It depends on the state. I think a lot of moated here because I was on the ticket and they came out thank God and help me. Otherwise I wouldn't have won. But I think around the country if they didn't have a conservative on the ballot as a Republican or you know as a senator or rather or a congressman I think a lot of them stayed home. Again you're listening to the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. I'm Laura Conaway our guest today New Hampshire Senator Bob Smith. We're taking your questions and comments at 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. New Hampshire Republicans. How do you feel about Bob Smith leaving the party or in general. How do you feel about the U.S.

taxpayers party maybe have some questions about it and what it stands for. Later on we will be talking about Senate business including the budget surplus tax cuts health care reform and so forth and we'll take your questions and comments on those issues too. Again 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. The concord number 2 2 4 8 9 8 9 and our first calls from Loudon dicks on the air. Hi Dick. Hi. Go ahead. Well I don't know if you've got guts. I'm the former Republican town chairman. And for you to leave the party. To me it took an awful lot of guts and I commend you for it. The only vote that's wasted is a vote that's not cast. I agree with you Dick and I appreciate your comments very much. It was not an easy decision as I said and you're absolutely right. I've always said that if you don't like somebody on the ballot then vote for yourself or vote for someone that you do like because you

can always write their names. And I agree. I think that we need to encourage more people to participate in the process. And as I said you know I you know it's interesting I'm having I'm hosting an event tomorrow night in Bedford for John Ashcroft a conservative Republican senator and a good friend of mine. I'm certainly going to help him if I can raise some money and get re-elected. I haven't I haven't turned my back on on on Republicans that I care about who and I'm more than happy to help them. But it is interesting that's not true at the at the party level where where they've made me person and non-grata. So any time I can help people who are of like mind and principles with me I'm delighted. Delighted to do it. Now Dick you said that Senator Smith has guts to leave the Republican Party. Do you think that it was a good idea. Frankly yes. Yeah I do. Because the party seems to be going off on the wrong direction. I happen to be a Vietnam

veteran and I'm very concerned with how the Vietnam vets are going to be taken care of in the future. You know I don't have much faith in this current administration and I really frankly worry that a matter of fact all veterans are going to take second seat to somebody else that may or may not think their way. All right Bob. I mean Dick excuse me well I appreciate the call. I'm a Vietnam vet too Dick and I agree with you. I think that we can do a lot more for veterans. One of the things that I've said we need to take a break Lou are you. One of the one of the things that I that frustrates me Dick I ride to work in the morning in the wintertime is I sit in the summer too. But in the winter to see veterans a lot of Vietnam veterans for the most part some Korean veterans lying on grates in Washington D.C. freezing to death while we spend $18 billion to the International Monetary Fund.

Some of that money goes to Russia and Russia sends it to Iran. Iran buys nuclear weapons and then trades those weapons to Libya and North Korea with your money. So there are a lot of things you talk about compassionate conservatism that's not compassionate conservatism and I'd like to stop it. And if I'm president on the first day I'm rounding up every one of those veterans on the great and not bring them into the White House I have to get them warm but they're not going to be on the grates anymore. Under a smith administration and in a moment we'll take a lot more of your phone calls for Senator Smith. So stay right with us. This is the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. Wednesday on the exchange your turn to talk with one of New Hampshire's U.S. representatives a second district Congressman Charlie Bass join us Wednesday for the exchange. The. Board for the exchange comes from our contributing listeners and the Brattleboro retreat helping families and communities care for people with psychiatric and addictive illness throughout the England 1 800 retreat or call it to Microsoft authorized academic training

provider offering information technology programs at five locations next term begins August 30th. Information that has served you. And the people of all techs providing custom Garmin programs for New England business using traditional and non-traditional apparel and apparel services to achieve their customers objectives. If. This is the exchange and Hampshire Public Radio I'm Laura Conaway and our guests today New Hampshire Senator Bob Smith. We're talking about Senator Smith's recent defection from the Republican Party and his decision to run for president with the U.S. taxpayers party. We'll also discuss some of the business of the Senate including health care taxes and the budget surplus. And we'd like your questions and comments. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. How do you feel about Senator Smith leaving the Republican Party. Do you have any questions about the U.S. taxpayers party and what it stands for. You may have questions about Senate business the

budget surplus the tax cut plan or health care reform. Again 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9 and Sunday Smith Let's go right back to the phones our next calls from Barrington Maynard. Hi Maynard you're up next. Thanks Laura. Sure. One question for the senator. How do you rationalize extreme cuts in budget and cut in taxes and yet seem to take a good deal of satisfaction in bringing federal funds to the state. Not that these are not all good causes but all of these efforts to draw federal funds require income as well as expenditure. There's a saying Maynard one man's pork is another man's bacon. Yeah. Well you know that's a that's a great point and I'm glad you asked it. I think it all gets down to prioritization. Some of the money that we came into the state that came into the state on the highway trust fund for

example was money that was collected at the tank by all of us when we buy our gas. That money was put into a trust fund it and it got into an allocation process. I just wanted to make sure that that money that was collected that New Hampshire got its fair share and we did some $825 billion worth for our roads. And so it was money that was collected specifically for the highways. And so my job as a member of that committee was to see to it that New Hampshire got its fair share. In addition on items there are a lot of contractors defense contractors here in the state Sanders some Raytheon work and some other smaller companies who do a lot of government work throughout most of southern New Hampshire. I always looked at the the defense needs if the if the defense needs were legitimate in the interest of national security I would support those those contractors I've supported by contractors I mean I support it not the contractor but the concept whatever it was that they were building. If it was justified for national security I

supported it. And so I tried to balance this out. I've always had the highest rating in the Congress on on on cutting the budget. And so I can't be doing too much wrong in terms of that. And you know actually over the years I've been criticized at times for voting against measures that had a lot of pork in it including pork for New Hampshire. I don't vote for what I construe pork and I voted against some projects in New Hampshire in the past because I didn't think it was justified. But I think that what we have money for the shipyard money for some of the defense work that our contractors do here money for the Highway Trust Fund. I think that's legitimate. And that's why I supported it. It's a good question though maybe it wasn't a question. Thanks. Thank you. And 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 is the 800 number for your questions for Senator Smith or in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. We're going next to Center Harbor Dennis up next time Dennis.

How are you. Good morning. Go ahead. Question for the senator. I'm not a native New Hampshire right. But we have vacation time up here. I was one of the military and we're very concerned about the present administration is cutting back on the military expenditures. And I'm very concerned about our shipping possible importance. I'd like to go to China what are you going to say about this. I agree with you on on both counts. We've cut too deeply in the military. We've we've reduced our manpower from 2.2 million to about 1.2 million. That's too deep in my view we would not be able to handle two regional conflicts in two different areas of the world at the same time most defense experts tell me that our readiness is a mess. Our operation tempo where we've sent our forces into Bosnia and Kosovo into Haiti Korea they're spread all over the world they're spread too thin. Many people in the military I'm not sure the circumstances with your son Dennis but I've had some fathers tell me that their sons have been in the military for four years and have

been for home for Christmas yet and we're not at war. So I think we have serious serious problems in the military that have to be rectified. There is talk now of reinstituting the draft because our recruiting is down our pilot recruitment is down. Navy recruiting in general is down Air Force recruiting is down. Army recruits are down because of what's happening in the military. This president I don't believe has been a good military leader. And I think that's has a lot to do with it. On the second part of your question about about the technology transfer of satellite technology to transfer we're not going to know for 20 years how serious it is. But it is serious. They they they basically received in that Los Alamos theft all of the nuclear secrets of all of the nuclear weapons in the U.S. arsenal every one of them were sent to China. And and in addition we know that President Clinton allowed certain technology to be sold through the local company to China which I think was a mistake. And what that was the technology that was

targeting. So now the communist Chinese now have the rockets to launch the warhead that they've now stolen. And now they have the targeting because we sold it to them. The targeting to be able to aim that right at United States cities. It's a disaster in the making and I am deeply concerned about and very upset about it but it happened and now we have to try to recover as best we can. What's Congress doing isn't there committee investigating what happened not doing enough. It's one of my frustrations with the Republican leadership. I wanted to have a select committee to investigate this. We've got five or six committees looking into it. But there's a lot of redundancy duplication and I don't think we're getting to the bottom of this. I mean we clearly have to get some answers here. I mean this guy was allowed to spy for three or four years after they knew he was spying. I don't know. And then you know when you couple that with the money that came from China into the democrat party you know I don't know. There's a lot of stuff going on here. There was a lot more serious than Monica Lewinsky and I don't think we've gotten to the bottom of it. But I think the

Republicans are gun shy they're afraid to take this president on because every time they do they lose. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to find out the truth of what happened. Dennis good question thank you. Thank you Senator. Thank you. Speaking of increasing defense spending I'm sure you know that to increase. If you want to increase defense spending which there seems to be bipartisan support for that in order to stay within the budget caps you have to reduce spending elsewhere. So where do you reduce that. Where do you cut to make up for that increase in defense. Well because of the good economy the surpluses have allowed them to to increase it without making alternative cuts. But I think that I agree with the premise of your question. I think we should be cutting somewhere else. I think are plenty of places to cut. I would rather cut elsewhere if I could and increase defense where we need to to stay on par where we are most military experts say it should be $25 billion a year for the next five years just to get back where we were. But we've the increase this year in the budget was 13 so we're only half way

where we need to be. And there are other increases in spending that are taking place in programs that I don't believe are justified. So I would I would cut in other areas and I mentioned some of the departments that I think could be education housing because I don't think there are legitimate federal government functions. I'm certainly supportive of education but I think the best education is at the local level. So you know I wish that we would look harder at that. But these surpluses although we're running big surpluses we're not really putting much on the debt. And we should be putting money on the debt and we're not doing that. And we've got Social Security that's a mess that's going to be bankrupt in the year 2030 if we don't do something. Medicare is in trouble. We need dramatic reforms in these programs to get more private involvement so that people can take care of their own health care of their own retirement and get that as much as possible off the federal government's payroll. But we're not we're not dealing with these problems we're we're still playing politics down there. Well what you're saying seems to almost go against the tax cut

bill that recently passed because some people have criticized it in saying you know yes it doesn't do enough towards the debt. Well that's a that's a very powerful argument and it's it's difficult to explain it. The the truth of the matter is if you go back though historically and look at tax cuts Kennedy cut taxes in the 60s. Reagan cut taxes in the 80s when you cut taxes you increase revenues. Believe it or not because it expands the economy when you put more money in the pockets of the Loric annoying Bob Smith will go buy a refrigerator or a new car or will do something maybe we'll use it for our college expenses and I know you're going to need those. Lauren about 18 years. But I think that you know money in the pockets of the American people is better spent than in the federal government because I think it tends to be wasted there. So ultimately tax cuts produce more revenue. But that's hard to explain because it seems like if you cut taxes and then you increase the debt. Now people say in the Reagan years well the debt went up went up because we increased spending at a greater level than we

cut. Then we cut taxes. But I would I'd like to then the growth of the economy. So I'd like to see us cut spending cut taxes keep the economy stimulated and at the same time because we're running surpluses we can cut taxes give money back the American people and apply money to the debt because once those tax cuts take effect usually it takes about two years to get the the the effect of the money coming back to the treasury because it went into the economy. Then you'll be you'll you'll propel the debt retirement quicker. It does seem counterintuitive if you cut taxes. It does. It does but it isn't and historically it's always proven to be the opposite that when taxes were cut the economy grew and more money came ultimately to the Treasury. As we as we got more and more employment let's go back to the phones again 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. If you're in Concord join us at 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. We're talking today with New Hampshire Senator Bob Smith. He's in the middle of his second term. Smith was first

elected to the Senate in 1990. Senator Smith was the first candidate to officially enter the Republican race in February of this year. Last month though he left the GOP saying the party had abandoned its conservative principles and recently Smith announced he'll seek the presidency under the banner of the U.S. taxpayers party. Again we'd like to hear from you. We have about 15 minutes left with Senator Smith. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. How do you feel about New Hampshire's senator leaving the Republican Party. Do you care. Do you think it's an issue. Also what do you think about the budget surplus. Well the projected budget surplus is some would say and the tax cut plan. We've also talked about the China issue and the technology trade and also veterans issues. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. Up next is Russ he's calling from Hanover. Hi Ross you're on the air. Good morning Bob. Good morning sir. I was reading a comment some transportation assistance from the U.S. government on funds to improve roads.

That was one project that just took place here in the last couple of years on the road between Newport New Hampshire and Claremont New Hampshire ready to go out on a bridge and build a whole brand new structure of a new bridge in the road. But the speed limit is still at 35 miles an hour and has become a speed trap and sort of turn your attention to a lot of people who are traveling a road especially turf. And I was upset by the fact that the government gives the states money and they just seem to use it where they have to have their pet projects for the time but it doesn't seem to help the general public in the sense that to the point where somebody ought to sue the state for misappropriation of government funds for the road project. Well well I'm not. Is that a town road or a state rather state run state run. It was done by the state. Well from from my perspective as a federal official Our job is to see

to it that the highway the federal gasoline tax for the highways is my job is to see that I get it back to the states. I have other than a few projects where there have been some specific projects earmarks. I it's really the state's role to to decide where that money is spent and what they what they do with it. So it would not be my job as a senator I don't believe to dictate to the state what that speed limit would be or what or anything about whether or not that project was worthy or not that's up to the states to make that determination. That seems to be one of the things that sort of gets lost in the shuffle. The government comes up with the money and the state just seems to do whatever they want with it. Yeah Russ I don't think we can help you with that one but I hear you. Thanks for your call. All right bye bye. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. Bill's up next he's calling from Rhye. Hi Bill. Hi good morning how are you. OK good. Listen I have a point that I was wanted to bring up

to the senator and I don't know if it's been mentioned before or not because I was kind of late getting onto the program this morning and the impact of third party candidates as it relates to national elections clearly the third party candidate candidacy of Ross Perot the last last election we had cost George Bush the election. If it hadn't been for him clearly George Bush would be president today. And I'm just wondering you know what the what the impact of that might be in your own minds that it is about. Well it's a very fair question Bill and it's one that I know absolutely. Obviously you have to weigh very carefully. My goal is not to deny necessarily anybody the presidency. My goal would be to win. I know that that argument is made about the Ross Perot in fact my wife makes the same argument so I've heard it many times. I personally disagree though I think that you have to say that the American people elected Bill Clinton and yes Perot

in the election siphoning off 20 percent of the vote. But the point is people have a right to vote for the candidate of their choice. And in doing that if that means somebody else wins and that's a democratic process I would not want to deny the people who voted for Ross Perot the right for one minute to vote for Ross Perot. I mean I think that's their decision. And if you feel strongly that you shouldn't support Bob Smith or anybody else who might be a candidate other than a Republican or a Democrat because you feel that it might deny George Bush the election or might give the election now Gore then if that's your motivation then you should vote not vote for me and I respect that. But I would just say to you that I'm trying to give the election to the American people I'm not trying to give it to Al Gore or anybody else that I know for a fact that if the people who believe what I believe if the people who are pro-life and pro-Second Amendment and pro sovereignty pro military pro veteran if they all voted for me I'd win and I don't think that we should say that any candidate has a lock on on being president because they're either a Republican or a Democrat. I believe that

we should be allowed to vote for the candidate of our choice. We of course are allowed to but I believe that we should. I think we should vote our conscience and let the chips fall where they may. I think we're assuming by saying that we're going to quote unquote give the election somebody else that it has to be a Republican or a Democrat. Democrats opposing the third party candidate whoever it is is a better person. You believe that person is a better candidate a better person would make a better president. Why should you deny that. Because a person doesn't have an R or a D next to their name. It's a very fair question though Bill Oh. Let me just follow up on that. I agree with Senator Smith and I agree with the vast majority of the of the of the of your positions that I respect the fact that you have left the party for philosophical reasons and that's to be admired. However there is another aspect to this that I think needs to be talked about too. I mean there were a lot of people in the Republican Party who feel the same way that you do. RYAN Have you been accused and I'm not saying this in a detrimental way believe me because I do agree with you have you been accused of cutting and running so to speak from the Republican Party as opposed to

working within the party to gain consensus to get your platform carried forward. All right Bill good question and I'm going to let Senator Smith answer. And Bill Yeah I mean I have been accused of that. I don't think that's true though because I have worked for years within the party to make these changes I've fought the fight every year here in the state where every year they try to take out the pro-life plank or or some other plank that's in our platform that's true at the national level. I've watched I watched the way Buchanan was treated in 96 where he was almost denied the opportunity to even speak at the convention. There's a lot of frankly contempt by some of the party people with us as conservatives we tend to be a problem viewed as a problem rather than as part of our party. And I know but I if I thought for one minute that I could make these changes within I would do it. There's a lot of calls here but I don't want to be long but let me let me just say this. I just look at the facts going out and I'll be very brief here. But just historically let me ask you to consider this.

In 1973 the Roe v. Wade abortion decision was given to us by Republican appointments to the court Republican judges voted for Roe v. Wade they were appointed by Republican presidents in the Casey case where Roe v. Wade was upheld. It was upheld with Republican appointments. Bush gave us David Souter who has been not a conservative judge. You also gave us Clarence Thomas but I mean the point is it's an offset. Republican senators denied Robert Bork a seat on the Supreme Court. Republican senators gave up the seat on the court to Ruth Bader Ginsburg. It wasn't the Democrats that denied Bork. It wasn't the Democrats who gave the seat to Ginsburg. And so it's Republicans who voted for him. And to China it's Republicans who voted the $18 billion for the IMF. And so I'm just having trouble understanding what we gain by quote unquote electing Republicans. So you know that's my view and I think I would rather see conservatives come together and if it's the Republican Party fine or if some

other party so what. Let's just come together and vote together so that we can make these changes that we believe in. And if you don't agree with me I mean people out there who don't agree with those issues then of course they would vote against us and that's the way it should be. Let's go next to Concord and Miriam is calling from Concord Hi Miriam. Hi how are you. I'm fine. OK. I just wanted to say that I'm a lifelong Democrat but I do admire Smith's stand. I simply agree with the way the political system works. I also think it's interesting that the only other person in the legislature is the fellow from Vermont it's a socialist who's Dr. Bernie Sanders. Yes. With the with the Democrats but I think he's an effective voice because he's not a part of the party. Well I guess what I wanted to ask the senator I know the tax vote. Senator McCain said that a lot of it was really pure politics that the money isn't even really there and that when the House and Senate come back from recess they really need to

take a good hard look at you know where the money's coming from and whether they shouldn't be paying down the debt first. And I just wondered how Senator Smith felt about that issue. I mean is that is the money there is this a real tax cut in what should happen when the Senate and House come back. A lot of questions. But but but good ones first of all I think that the tax cut bill that was passed by one vote in the Senate will be vetoed by President Clinton because he's told us that he's going to veto it because he feels that the tax cuts are too big. I disagree with that. I think that I think that you can cut taxes and can reduce the debt because we do we are running surpluses so if we could reform Social Security put the money in the lockbox so to speak where the money that goes in that people pay into Social Security if that stays in the Social Security trust fund and it is not borrowed out. That won't affect pay down the debt. If we reform Social

Security if we don't put any Social Security reforms in we're just postponing the debt because in the year 2030 or so we're going to have a huge balloon in the debt. So. So I you know I support reducing the debt and I also support the tax cuts because I think putting money back in the pockets of the American people will create more jobs and ultimately more revenue to the Treasury to pay the debt down. Miriam you can. Yeah. Well I guess my concern is that that really happened because frankly you know that with the income that my husband and I make We're talking probably less than $2000 a year tax cut much more worried about whether or not in five years when we retire whether the Social Security is there. I guess I'm curious how you would do that. Because I would rather see them pay back Social Security and keep that money there and make it solvent for they give me back a thousand dollars a year.

You're right on that point I must say I've had people tell me the same thing over and over again I'm willing to give up my thousand. It's not that much. As a matter of fact the tax cuts are over a 10 year period. So the amount of money I think it amounts to the average person six or seven dollars a month. I mean it's not a lot of money that's for sure. But collectively when you take your thousand and my thousand and everybody salary you put it all together. It's billions and that of course has an impact on the economy collectively but individually I would agree with you it's not a lot of money although to some people a thousand would be a lot of money but if you're question your second question about the Social Security is what I tried to address before you're right. We need to lock up that money so that those people who are in the Social Security system now will get those benefits because they've been promised those benefits. But what I would like to see are the young people who go into the work who go into the system to work at say 16 17 18 years old and begin paying Social Security. I'd rather have them pay into an IRA or a 401k so that they

will not need federal monies that they will have their own retirement upon retirement when they leave work. And in the meantime we can protect the people who are in the system now. But at the same time bring the younger people in as not part of Social Security but taking care of their own security so that we protect both. And that will ultimately reduce the debt because the liability for Social Security right now is that is if every single person who is entitled to Social Security from the 16 year old kid who just started today working to that you know 110 year old who's still collecting if you put all of it paid all of it it's $12 billion and that's far above the current debt of the United States. Sounds like you've heard similar comments though from Myriad. People want to get rid of the tax credit for that she said. What she's basically saying is I'm willing to sacrifice the thousand dollars to pay down the debt. And my view is though we'll pay it down faster by providing those cuts because it will produce more revenue to the Treasury. Let's squeeze one more phone call in Chris is calling from Manchester. Chris you're up next. We've got just a little

bit of time. Thank you. I love your show. Senator Smith It's a real honor. I've also left the Republic Republican Party. Basically my my leaving them had to do with the fact that I felt that they were moving away from the line that they had stood by for many years I think they're willing to trade in some of their moral virtue for an election and that really bothers me. But the thing I wanted to talk to you about was going with the tax party like you have. I totally agree with you on this. We're running out of time. Can you wrap it up. Well my hope is is that you will discuss the tax structure in this country and give alternate plans other ideas that we might be able to use and I really hope that's the case. How about repealing the income tax. That's what I'm for and replacing it with an excise tax on a tariff and perhaps a state assessment would save money all of us. Chris thanks for the phone call. All right. I didn't even have a chance to ask you about that. That's another part of the U.S.

taxpayer party platform. All right. Well we'll talk again as this campaign continues. Thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Senator Bob Smith of New Hampshire. He's in the middle of his second term. He was first elected to the Senate in 1990. Smith has announced his plans to run for president under the banner of the U.S. taxpayers party. The exchange is a production of new Hampshire Public Radio. The producers are Eric Erickson and Mary Krueger the engineers Shane Zoller and I'm Laura Conaway. The views expressed on this program were those of the individuals and not necessarily those of New Hampshire Public Radio or its underwriters. If you missed part of today's program listen any time at w w w dot and HPR dot org or listen to the exchange tonight at 8:00 p.m. following fresh air cassette copies of the exchange are available by calling 6 0 3 2 2 8 8 9 1 0. Change comes from our contributing listeners and from Gary Blake's sub Portsmouth ave Exeter.

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