The Exchange; Interview with Mike Huckabee

From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Laura Conaway and this is the exchange. As the Republican presidential field begins to take shape. Many conservative voters are asking will the real conservative please stand up. Longtime Republican activist Phyllis Schlafly summed up the feeling in a recent visit to New Hampshire saying she resents being told Giuliani McCain and Romney are her party's only choices. None she said are acceptable to conservatives but now to answer the lament of slackly and others. Enter stage right. Mike Huckabee the former Arkansas governor who is seriously exploring a run for president. I think America needs positive optimistic leadership to kind of turn this country around to see a revival of our national soul and to reclaim a sense of the greatness of this country that we love and also to help bring people together to find a practical solution to a lot of the issues that people really worry about when they sit around the dinner table and talk at night with Huckabee.

Conservatives won't have to question his opposition to abortion or gay marriage and the find a man of strong religious faith called the Reverend Governor by some because he began his career as a Baptist preacher still even with these credentials. Huckabee is at this time considered a second tier Republican candidate without the name recognition or the money of the others. But in this way Huckabee says he identifies with another Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton who also battled difficult odds and ended up in the Oval Office today in exchange Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee of Arkansas. He's in New Hampshire this week doing media interviews attending a house party and meeting local Republicans. We want your comments and questions for Governor Huckabee give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 808 9 2 and HPR. Governor Huckabee welcome to the exchange. Nice to meet you. Well thank you Laura. We've had a great time talking about important things like running and fitness and all of those other issues so I'm sure we're going to talk about politics along the way today. Well move talk about the presidential primary and I want to ask you about that in a couple of minutes. But Governor Huckabee about that tape that we played from a recent interview with NBC's Tim Russert. The use of the words that you used

revival of our soul reclaim our greatness turn this country around. What do those words imply about what kind of shape our country is in right now. Americas I think in a position where there's a lot of division people have lined up on one or the other sides of left right Democrat Republican. I think that's where punditry and politicians have lined up. They tend to think horizontally. I think the average American thinks vertically and so much of the problem is that politicians live in this horizontal world where they want everything to line up on the continuum of saying Are you a left of me are you right of me. Are you a conservative are you a liberal. But when people sit around at night in their homes and they are having dinner and the husband and wife are talking about paying their bills you know they're really not arguing over left and right and conservative and liberal. What they're really wanting to know is are we going up. Are we going down. Will our children's future be better or will it be worse. Those are vertical issues. So I believe that the

candidates who are going to be able to lead this country vertically not horizontally are the ones that the American people are going to resonate with and that's where the election's going to end up going. And if I didn't believe that I wouldn't even be in this race. Well and I've heard you describe these vertical politics. How do you then in your actions in ten and a half years as Arkansas governor embody those vertical politics in terms of the issues education for example. That's an issue that is really not a horizontal issue it's a vertical issue. You're either improving or you're not. You're either becoming more competitive or you're not. Infrastructure highways are getting better or they aren't health care. You're either becoming a healthier nation or you're becoming an unhealthy nation. Health care is either more accessible or less accessible more affordable less affordable. And those are vertical issues. People either have an optimistic view of their job or a pessimistic view they either think they're going to keep their job or lose their job it's going to be outsourced or shipped overseas or lost somehow or maybe that's going to be lost by some white collar crook who takes all the company

profits including the person's pension plans that they've worked for over 20 years and squander it. Those are vertical issues because it's not about are you a Democrat or you are Republican. It's are you honest are you fair do you have character are you going to lead. And those are the vertical issues that really drive the average Americans concerns. You sound sort of like the compassionate conservative that George Bush campaigned as six years ago. I tend to think that if a person is truly conservative then you don't have to put the adjective compassionate in front of it because compassion is a matter of your spirit. Conservative as a matter of maybe your perspective. But for me the compassion part comes from my faith. I'm a person of faith should never apologize for that. Happy to talk about it. Enjoy talking about it because it helps people to understand what makes me tick and I think it also is what sometimes perplexes people because they have a perception that if you're a Republican you're going to sort of be hard nosed about some issues.

When I talk about for example music and art I do it with great passion because those are issues of great importance to me. You're the bass guitarist in a rock behind him. And as a governor I led our state to have music and art as part of the required mandated curriculum for every student is taught by a certified teacher because I think it's an important part of instilling creativity in the student understanding that the future economy is a creative economy. Those issues sort of make people scratch their heads and say But wait I thought he's a Republican and they say Republicans like music to children's health we innovate to the health care program for children that really made it so that we had coverage for kids of working moms and dads and a lot of people thought well that's not something you would have expected a Republican to do and I say you know Republicans like kids too. My point is though that it's about solving problems finding out what the problems are what it is that that is creating anxiety. What is it that is an impediment to people being their best and being empowered to doing their best. And Republicans at their heart are really

about empowering individuals to be their best to do their best. It's not about hating government it's about making government efficient and making it functional. That's really where we ought to be headed. Governor Huckabee when you talk about improving children's health or adding music education sometimes those initiatives require raising taxes and that's where it gets horizontal again that's where people get political. You've been criticized for raising taxes as governor of Arkansas. So as a vertical person to continue the analogy how do you get around that. The record is that I cut 90 taxes in Arkansas during two and a half years as governor. We cut the income tax for the first time in 160 years. Never had there been a broad based general tax cut in Arkansas until I became governor. And in addition to that we eliminated the marriage penalty we index the income tax for inflation so that people wouldn't be caught in bracket creep and you have really low income earners paying higher brackets. So we change that we lifted the threshold in which people pay. We cut capital gains taxes. We made a lot of

changes so that it was more family friendly. I always say they're for office of tax policy that ought to be in place. They ought to be flatter fair finite and family friendly. The tax structure does not really reflect the best for America's families and that's something we really do need to address. And I tried to do that as a governor of Arkansas. When people say you raise taxes we raised fuel tax for highways but it was on the ballot in 80 percent of our people voted for it and we rebuilt our highway system which was desperately needed. No apologies for that. Our phone number here in the exchange is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Our guest Governor Mike Huckabee. He's in New Hampshire today introducing himself to Granite State voters. The former Arkansas governor is eyeing a run for the White House trying to distinguish himself as the conservative candidate in the Republican field. He served as Arkansas governor from 1996 to January 2007 calling today at 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 it's your chance to talk with one of the Republican presidential hopefuls Mike Huckabee. Again 1 800

8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 808 9 2 and HPR. Governor Huckabee let's go to the phones and go to Concord where Melissa is on the line. Hi Melissa. Go ahead you're on the air with Governor Huckabee. Good morning Governor. Hi Melissa. I applaud you for signing legislation to increase health care coverage for children in Arkansas. And my question for you is in order to pay for health care insurance for all of American children would you commit to shifting some of the billions of our tax dollars that are wasted each year on obsolete cold war weapons and the Pentagon budget. You know one of the real challenges is to look at the budget the federal budget right now is about 3.8 percent of our GDP that's spent on defense. We spend between 16 and 17 percent of our GDP on health care. Our real problem in the health care crisis is not that it's a health care crisis. Melissa we've got a health crisis until we start focusing on healthier populations healthier behaviors. We're going to have an unsustainable health care cost. Chronic disease now accounts for almost 80 percent of our health care expenditures in America. And the

real focus has to be on moving us toward preventing disease rather than treating it and paying for the incredible cost. I was in New York yesterday and on a panel with former President Bill Clinton we've co-chaired the Alliance for a healthier future for children in trying to combat childhood obesity is one of those areas where I would say is very vertical is not a horizontal issue because you have Democrats and Republicans. Newt Gingrich was there the point is that diabetes is now becoming this overwhelming expensive disease and it is a true pandemic. So the question is would I reallocate expenses from the Defense Department. The bigger question is why don't we do what really needs to be done and that is let's start focusing on helping our population to make healthier choices become a healthier population so that healthcare can be affordable for everybody because we're not going to be having to access so much for the preventable and curable chronic diseases that really are accounting for the crisis. And that's an important personal issue for you.

I know you're one of your latest books was eating your cell quit leaving your grave with a knife and fork. The name of the book and you lost 100 pounds and still governing marathons. But the question remains you know healthy or not. I mean I'm very healthy but I still need to go to the doctor I still need my insurance. And Melissa's right I mean health care is becoming a major issue as I see it in this coming presidential campaign. People want to know that Americans will be covered and Americans should be covered. But one of the things we miss sometimes is that if you have an accident or you have an acute illness or X or some type of debilitating illness that happens very suddenly you're going to access the system. The question is who's going to pay for it. That's really the issue. You go to the emergency room or you can you're going to get the health care system you've got excellent health care system but it's upside down it's upside down from start to finish we train doctors not to prevent disease. We train them to treat them. We don't insure people so that we help to make them well we insure people so that we treat their worst diseases. Let me give an example Laura today if I want to go see a nutrition counselor. I've got to pay for that if I want to go to the

gym. I got to pay for it. Those are measures that might prevent me from having a heart attack. But if I have a heart attack and have to have bypass surgery and months of rehabilitation and it cost a couple hundred thousand dollars the insurance will pay for that. Now what doesn't make sense is why don't we put some of the focus on preventing the illnesses as opposed to paying for the consequences of them. It doesn't make sense. Look at our employment situation. We have sick leave which means that you get paid if you're sick. What if you're never sick. You know what you get. You get to work extra for the people who are around you who are sick all the time. So the system does not lend itself to incentives to say we're going to reward you for healthy behavior and you're going to have incentives to do it. In Arkansas we started making changes in our system. We started rewarding employees with walking breaks. People got to go smoke if they wanted to go outside the building. You know during their time on the clock which you know was counterproductive. But if they wanted to walk we'd say do it on your lunch hour. We said you know what if you're going to go walk you're going to actually improve your productivity improve your health so we'll let you do that.

So that if the smokers can go hurt themselves you can go help yourself. We started saying we'll give incentives and up to $500 a year often your health insurance for doing a health risk assessment and not smoking. And if you'll get off tobacco we will even cover the cost of the nicotine patches are the gum or whatever it takes the counseling 24 hour a day toll free numbers to call to get you out of that habit because it's costing us as an employer an extraordinary amount of money whatever we spend to get you off back and is worth it to us in the long term work. Yes it's worked. That's the beautiful thing. Money that you spend in preventing is money that you save in delivering a system. Well and Governor Huckabee next time you come on maybe we will focus completely on care because I can tell that that's an important issue for you. But I want to go back to our callers. Lots of questions let's go to E.J. He's calling from Woodstock Vermont. Hi E.J. go ahead E.J. you're on the air. Hi how are you doing. Good. Go ahead E.J..

Yeah you know I it says in the Bible that thou shall not kill. If you're elected president so are you going to be sending people to go kill you go murder and drop bombs and kill innocent civilians. So obviously you know will be toward the more Godlike and more like Jesus and be forgiving and being a pacifist. Obviously your views toward the war must be like to get out immediately. So let's get let's get his views on the war. Well know I was a theology student so I understand a little bit about what the text says. And thou shalt not kill is literally from the Hebrew Thou shalt not do murder Thou shall not do murder does not mean there's never a time in which war is is ever call far. There are some times when that may be the only option but it ought to be the last option. I'll be the first to tell you that. But thou shalt not murder you said we are going to go murder people murder is a an act of cold blooded killing toward people who are completely innocent of a crime. War is a horrible horrible thing that we should never have to do unless it's essential to our own

survival. But I think to say that our soldiers are committing murder is an insult to the soldiers and I would highly disagree with the characterization of someone being shot at and returning fire and protecting liberties and life that they are actually murdering people. I think that that would be a very unfair characterization of our military. What is your position Governor Huckabee on President Bush's surge in twenty more so to excuse me 21000 more soldiers to Iraq to stabilize the situation there. He's the commander in chief. He's looking at information that most of us don't have an he and the military advisers who are on the field believe that this will lead to a more stable Iraq. Let's hope that's the case. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt and have to respect that's his decision. Interestingly the United States Senate gave a unanimous confirmation to send General Petraeus to Iraq with that plan and then they turned around from having voted on the confirmation to send him with that plan and turn around to the television cameras and said they don't believe it is going to work. I think that's disingenuous on their part. They either have to

say it's not going to work and we're not going to confirm him or we're going to confirm it and we're going to have to respect and hope it works. If it doesn't then I think the president's got a lot of answering to do. But if it does then let's hope it doesn't. Let's get this thing stable and get out of Iraq and bring our guys home. How long do you wait to see if it's going to work. The problem with any type of timetable is that there's an assumption that war is like a football game but it's more like a baseball game you can't really put it on a clock and say we're ticking it off at this point. There are certain objectives that we certainly ought to meet. But I think the critical issue right now is what happened this weekend is long overdue and that's getting other nations in that region that include Iran Syria Jordan Kuwait Saudi United Arab Emirates all of those neighbors in that region to realize that they're going to have to exercise some responsibility to bring stability to Iraq because if it goes up in flames they're going to get burnt first. It was that meeting over the weekend. Yes 30 nations

coming together in Baghdad and I thought that was a very important meeting not that they accomplished anything of great substance that weekend but the meeting was in itself incredibly important and a big step forward. Can the U.S. Governor Huckabee still influence events on the ground in Iraq to hear some in Congress talk about it. It's out of control. It's a civil war. The U.S. can't fix it. Let's go. Well we can't fix it. And certainly singularly we can't fix it and I think one of the realities. Democracy in Iraq is not going to look like democracy in the United States. They don't have the history the culture is different. We're kidding ourselves if we think that we're going to implant this very American looking system in Iraq and it's all going to work and people will build a campfire join hands and sing Kumbaya on toast marshmallows. That's not likely to happen any time soon. But what we also have to realize is that a stable Iraq that is more controlled by the people and less control by a tyrannical despot is certainly an

improvement and will it be like our system. No but hopefully they will realize that they have to resolve their own civil conflicts between the Shia and the Sunnis. They're going to have to. And let me when I say resolve it. Look let's not kid ourselves this been going on for 1800 years. But I've got to solve this. We're not going to make them all sit down at peace with each other. But they're going to have to quit killing each other at this kind of just brutal and just completely unfettered untethered war and and live and build a nation where there's some possibilities for prosperity. That's what will also have to involve the other Muslim nations who want to bring some moderation to that region. So is this an open ended commitment. The U.S. will stay under a Huckabee administration stay until things are calm. I don't think we have to stay indefinitely and certainly not in a military capacity so that we're the ones who are responsible for bringing security to the

streets that that can't be. That has to have some point of conclusion. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 is the exchange number. Join us the guest today on the exchange. Governor Mike Huckabee a Republican from Arkansas he just left office in January of 0 7. He is eyeing a run for president. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Back to conquer Governor Huckabee where Neil is on the phone. Hi Neal thanks for waiting. Go ahead you're on the air. Hi Governor welcome back to New Hampshire. Thank you for doing on New Hampshire's preeminent public policy show. Well thank you Laura appreciates the kind words there. So I know from reading my NRA publications that you're an avid hunter. Yes I am a defender of the Second Amendment. I am. But last week certainly surprised to see you commenting on ESPN about the Bassmaster Classic. So my question is how did you love the outdoors for things like hunting and fishing. Influence your work in public policy. It means that I'm a very avid conservationist. I believe that we have

a responsibility to take good care of the Earth First of all. I believe it because as a person of faith I believe God created this world in which we live and we have a responsibility to him. To me it's a matter of of spiritual stewardship that if this is his world and he made it I don't own it. I just get to use it and I can't abuse it. So I've got to be a good responsible guest while I'm here on this planet. It's the old Boy Scout rule. Leave your campsite in better shape than you found it. That's just the way it's supposed to work. It's a matter of courtesy. So we should be conservationist. I think that's a very consistent conservative view. I don't think Republicans frankly have done a very adequate job in being concerned enough about conservation clean water clean air we've done some things but we need to be leaders in conservation because frankly as an avid fisherman and one who loves to hunt and loves the outdoors I know that the habitat for wildlife I know that the water quality is all a part of

maintaining an eco system that I'm going to get to enjoy and pass on to my children so that they will have even more bountiful resources to appreciate and enjoy. When you talk about clean water and clean air again that sometimes means more regulation on businesses. It doesn't say what it really means it means that businesses come to realize that good business practices are consistent with good environmental practices. The best most profitable businesses in America are the ones who are also responsible and they realize that if they wreck the planet on which they make their profits that there won't be profits for the future generations good businesses realize that being good stewards of their world and environment means they have a long term capacity for profitability as opposed to a short term. So I don't think it's a matter of government coming in and saying OK we're going to put our foot on your neck and force you to do something. It's a matter if you look at companies that do well they are companies that look at things from the long term not the short term. And one can't look at

long term without thinking about responsible management of the resources. There's a lawsuit now going on I'm sure you're aware of of northeastern states suing Midwestern states where their power plant emissions that are coming the northeastern states New Hampshire being party to this would say look they're never going to clean up unless we put our foot on their necks. Well there is a transition going on in the energy world a clean coal is becoming increasingly a part of our energy process. Conservation needs to be more a part of it but we're also I think realizing that we need to be self-sustaining and our energy needs. The whole idea that we are dependent upon foreign nations for fossil fuels is absurd. And this country needs to accelerate an aggressive program to say that we're going to have domestically produced sustainable energy sources that would include solar wind clean coal the domestic oil that we have but not to the point of depletion of nuclear as well as hydrogen cells. And then of course one of the things that's close to my heart because I come from an agricultural

state and that's biofuels not just ethanol but all types of biofuels where we actually can stabilize our agricultural community and at the same time provide a safe Sustainable Energy Forum. We'll talk more after a short break and take a lot more of your calls for Governor Mike Huckabee the number on the exchanges 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. This is the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. Support for New Hampshire Public Radio comes from our members and from the U.P.S. store locations across Greater Boston where mailbox customers can get a real street address. Packages can be accepted from any carrier and mail packages are kept secure from Random House Publishers. Thank you for arguing with Aristotle Lincoln and Homer Simpson can teach us about the art of persuasion by Jay Heinrichs available at. Thank you for arguing Dawn com. And from Trese bang solving Corkery to

sales service satisfaction the family tradition since 1957 1 800 new Saab online. Traci Banks saw the dotcom saw a born from jets. With Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee on the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. Then at 10:00 on the Diane Rehm Show political fallout at the Justice Department. This is New Hampshire Public Radio. This is the exchange. I'm Laura Canobie tomorrow on the exchange we look at how different states are independently tackling health care reform. Find out more at our Web site and HPI. E-mail us your comments before the show. Governor Mike Huckabee of Arkansas is with us today. And Governor Huckabee let's turn now again to our callers 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 800 8 to HPR. And over to Chester Vermont where Ron has been waiting. Hi Ron. Go ahead you're on the exchange. Yeah good morning Governor. I've been watching you on C-SPAN for quite a bit. I'm an

independent voter and I've been kind of interested in your campaign and I just you know I didn't vote either time for Clinton I didn't vote either time for President Bush. And I'm looking for somebody that the American people can trust. And I I really like a lot of your comments but I did see a couple of weeks ago and I think it was the Conservative Union speech. And I realize you're speaking sort of to the conservative base but it almost seemed like you flipped from your vertical hat to your horizontal hat. That's just my comment. But you can answer if you want. My question is I live here in Vermont I'm originally from Michigan but I've been here for 12 years and since I've been here an American president has not stepped foot in our state. They always go to next door to New Hampshire because of the primaries but once they get elected even they don't even come here. President Bush hasn't been here since at least 95 President Clinton never set foot in the state of Vermont. So I'm wondering in the primary you can at least cross the Connecticut river one day when you're president here will you come here and speak to the Vermont people. Two great questions Ron. Go ahead.

OK Ron I tell you what you get me a big Gallivan that Vermont maple syrup and and a nice welcome and I'll do my best to come to Vermont also to come see my friend Jim Douglas the governor over there who I'm very fond of and work together a lot in the National Governors Association as well as in council of state governments and talk to them regularly and a big fan of his so maybe I'll get a chance to do that. It's a fair question too and I know how you feel. You know until Bill Clinton ran Arkansas was one of those fly over states. Nobody ever came to. And then Arkansas two things happened. He ran for president so that put us in play. Then later Arkansas became really a sort of a a pivotal state it became like West Virginia and Ohio and you know had it not been for Arkansas. And in fact Tennessee Florida wouldn't matter in 2000 so only one state sort of is unpredictable politically. So Ron one thing that might happen in Vermont right now I think a lot of people just say well it's a Democrat state is sort of done deal for the presidential candidate. So you go out there and get a guy like me to be in play make sure that you know I'm possibly going to capture the Vermont vote. It forces every candidate to show

up. That's how we'll make it work. Well and Ron said he saw you on C-SPAN I want to let the audience know that C-SPAN is also taping this interview today. But he also said when he saw you on C-SPAN you quote put on your conservative hat. How are you Governor Huckabee positioning yourself in this Republican field of candidates. I've seen many quotes from you saying I'm the real conservative in this race. Well I'm a conservative and I don't make any apologies for that I mean I've always been a conservative it's not something I just sort of come to recently I haven't had an adult epiphany and said I think I'll be a conservative this election cycle because that's how it will better play. I am who I am but who I am today is who I was 10 15 20 years ago who I was 30 years ago. I think that's that's the point. I didn't say anything at that speech that I haven't been saying for many many years. When I talk about vertical politics I'm saying that I have an ideology that is clear and pure and deep within me. But as a person who has to govern one must govern so that what you're really dealing with this problem solving. You're not

governing so that you implement a particular ideology with the strictest of notion that everybody else's ideology is totally 100 percent wrong. I've often said I'm a conservative but I'm not mad at everybody over it. I'm a conservative but I don't think I'm right all the time. I don't think Republicans have all the good ideas and the Democrats never have a good idea. And I think that sometimes even if we have a good idea it's important to allow the exchange of those on the other side to participate. They might improve it. They might not improve it but they might at least participate so that it can get done so that something can happen. And that's what I do believe government ought to do is to accomplish and to repair things as opposed to simply just get into this gridlock which is what we see in Washington where they don't address health care issues they don't address the infrastructure they're not improving education. They're not really bringing the country together to solve the issues of how do we quit exporting so many jobs away from our own people. And that's what American people want us to do. That's a pretty strong criticism Governor Huckabee of

your own kind. It's a criticism I think of conservatives and liberals alike when they stand on either side of the room and they will not meet each other somewhere to get something accomplished. Then it's not a failure of their conservative liberal principles. It's a failure of their duty to their constitution. You don't take an oath to a party you don't take an oath to an ideology. You take an oath to the Constitution of the United States to govern to lead to uphold that constitution which is for all people even the ones who disagree with you. When I became governor of Arkansas I inherited the most lopsided legislature in the entire nation. 86 percent of Arkansas elected officials are still Democrats. I was only the fourth Republican elected to office in 150 years. I tell people a Republican in Arkansas is like being a fire hydrant a neighborhood full of dogs. So I understand something about you know being in the minority but I also knew that I couldn't go into the state capitol and say OK guys I'm a Republican governor So here's the Republican way of doing everything. What I need to do is saying

what's the best way of doing things that we can agree on that will improve education that will make it so that a kid can break his arm in the playground and know he can get to the doctor and his mom won't have to worry about paying the rent. What can we do to improve this terrible road system that we had and we did and made it one of the best in the country. Those are issues that that I think can transcend our ideology. I never lost my ideology. I'm still pro-life still pro-Second Amendment still for lower taxes still for less government regulation. But at the same time I wanted to improve the environment. I don't think that's inconsistent at all. Well even if a strong conservative won the Republican primary could he or she win the general election. There's always that you know old adage run to your base in the primary and run to the middle for the general. But Ronald Reagan was a strong conservative but he also was an optimistic one. I think what people are looking for in their leaders is not just do I agree with their ideology but do I agree that this person will lead us

forward and upward that goes back to the vertical concept there were a lot of people that didn't agree with Ronald Reagan but they liked him and they voted for him. I'm convinced that there were people who voted for Bill Clinton who maybe didn't always agree with him but they felt that he listened and he understood the life they lived. And that's one of the strengths that he had from the Democrat perspective that's what America longs far looks for. And I think we'll eventually vote for in this presidential cycle. One more question on you on this for you Governor Huckabee and then back to our callers. You're well aware that every single poll puts McCain Giuliani and Romney at the top and you and a couple of others in the second tier. How do you feel about that. And B how do you break out of that. Well right now a lot of the race is being sort of looked at in terms of money and celebrity. But if those were the only two criteria by which we would elect a president then we would elect Paris Hilton as our next president if she could just get to the age of 35. This is not going to be about just money and just celebrity and you know one of the reasons is because a state like New Hampshire is a great filter.

And New Hampshire has the opportunity to tell America punditry that you're not going to decide who the next president is. We the ordinary people who sit around and have to go to work every day and pay taxes. We're going to make that decision because we're going to filter these candidates we're going to ask them tough questions. We're going to make them come up here and talk to us. Two and three at a time and we're not going to let them just raise money and do TV spots and sort of bolus over with with our experts. We're going to make them walk our streets and knock on our doors. That's what I love about the system and frankly what frightens me most about a system that becomes very front loaded is what we're seeing now. Yeah and I think it could be a the end of the American presidential process as we know it and it would be a great detriment to the selection process. Well already Governor Huckabee and you don't need me to tell you this with the compression candidates have had to spend time in California and Illinois. And we don't seem to see as much of them walking our streets and knocking on doors.

I still believe that for a candidate like me to win I've got to do well in New Hampshire in Iowa in South Carolina and if I do and do better than expected then I'm going to be in the game. And it doesn't matter whether you know that you have been in California because I may not have the money to compete there on the front end but it'll come when suddenly New Hampshire says we like this guy and that's what I have to believe in and that's why I'm here. Let's go back to the phones to Portsmouth where Toby is waiting. Hi Toby Go ahead you're on the air. Hi Governor Huckabee how are you. Great Toby thanks for calling. I am a lifelong Republican of a libertarian. I have to admit I find myself less and less able to support some of the national Republican candidates. I guess I'm curious about what your opinion is of the direction the Republican Party on really two issues. The first is sort of the complete loss of fiscal restraint. And second is the apparent willingness to attempt to impose personal values on on

really the general population through legislation. I'm curious as to what your thoughts of the past 12 years under under this Republican Congress sort of how you feel it's gone. Well the spending habits are completely unacceptable and out of control. And the fact is Republican spending is one of the reasons that Republicans lost the Congress in the 2006 election cycle. People were angry at spending they were angry at the war in Iraq and they were angry. I think what they saw is incompetence of government spending a lot of money on things that didn't work and then when government was needed to step in and actually provide some relief on the Gulf Coast after Katrina there was complete meltdown. And I think all of those things combined. And then you saw the corruption of K Street where there was just this incredible sense of avarice that went on. Republicans did not show strong moral leadership had him preached into. Yeah it was just horrible. And frankly Republicans deserve to get a spanking. Now sadly there were a lot of good people that got caught sort of in the waves of the tsunami that washed down to the local levels that were honorable

good decent people that shouldn't have been thrown out of either Congress or the governorships. But it happened anyway and that's the sad part. But the good thing was that was a wakeup call. It was a challenge to the process that just said we're just going to keep voting for you anyway. There's an area Toby that I think is probably the one of the most dangerous ones that I'm very disappointed. The Republican Party far and that is that we have abandoned the idea that Jefferson put forth that we are a nation of strong states and a less centralized overwhelming federal government. Frankly this Congress and this administration has been horrible at trying to centralize more authority at the federal level to the complete ignoring of the tenth amendment the constitution. It's as if the ghost of Alexander Hamilton has come out of the grave and has taken over the Congress and taken over the White House and abandon the principles really of both. I think the Republican and Democrat parties for that matter. But the concept in this country that we are a United States where states have power they loan to the federal

government federal government does limited things that it only can do. But for the most part you let states become these laboratories of of individual government to do those things which the federal government should never be doing such as well like a longtime governor by the way. Absolutely and I'm very frustrated as a governor because you see Congress passing real I.D. which makes a frontline DMV worker our border security. That's absurd. You have preemption of taxation and regulation authority where Congress is wanting to in essence control the commerce that really should be at the helm of the states. You have the president wanting to have total control over the National Guard which is a real defiance of the origin and the purpose of the National Guard being first and foremost a state militia and to deal with domestic issues. And those areas under the control of the governor as commander in chief. Those are just some of the examples that really kind of set my hair on fire when I think about how we've almost ignored our our founding fathers we've ignored our history.

We've acted like it doesn't matter. And I think it matters a great deal. I want to ask you about something else Toby said. Governor Huckabee it's a concern that we hear in New Hampshire hear often from our libertarian minded voters like Toby and that is a concern that your strong religious faith would encourage you to impose those values on others. I'm not quoting Toby quite correctly but that's the sense that you get that's the concern that some people have about politicians who have such strong religious values such as yourself. Well I would never want to impose them because if you impose your faith on somebody it's no longer a faith then it really is a matter of anything but faith faith. If it's not accepted by one's own volition is not faith at all. Then it's like a spiritual dictatorship. And that defies the heart of faith. Faith always at its essence says I embrace something out of my choice. I choose

to follow this view. So that would be to me an anathema and the antithesis of true faith. Should we uphold the idea that marriage means something. I think we should. Doesn't mean you restrict individual behavior but you don't redefine the definitions of family or marriage just to accommodate every worldview that may exist. So in other words no gay marriage. I don't think that's an appropriate thing to redefine marriage. Marriage has always meant one thing. It meant a man and a woman in a relationship for life. Frankly the fact that we are doing a pretty poor job with heterosexual marriage as it traditionally exists 50 percent of the marriage is now ending in divorce rather than sort of coming up with new forms. We need to be working on the form that we've got in improving the success rate of it. Should there be a constitutional amendment against gay marriage. This has been debated in Congress or should it be up to the individual states to decide how to go on this.

Individual states and mine included have made a constitutional amendment to redefine marriage. I'd rather put it in terms of codifying our Maybe solidifying the view of what marriage is rather than what marriage is not. And when people say a ban on gay marriage I think that may be is the misnomer. What we're really doing is affirming Here's what marriage means. This is simply what it means and we're not. We're not making a statement against something we're making a statement for something. And again your ram your opposition to abortion inspired by your religious faith. How does that translate into policy. I think it's bigger than even my faith. I think it's a our culture as a nation. We are a nation that celebrates life. When the Sago Mine disaster happened we had 13 miners lost in West Virginia. And you know what we would spare no expense and we moved heaven and earth to try to get to those miners because we value life. When three hikers get lost at Mt. Hood what do we do we turn loose every dog every plane every helicopter we can muster to find three people who are hiking in the snow and got lost because we value and celebrate

life. It's consistent with who we are to say that life is precious and that we don't take it cash callously or casually that we really do value it and we celebrate it and we elevate it. Compare that to the culture of death that we fight with Islamic fascism where people would strap a bomb to the belly of their own child and send it into a crowded room of innocent people and then feel a great sense of pride that they have participated in their own child's death in order to avenge their God. What an incredible contrast. But my pro-life position comes from not only that sense of who we are as a culture but it also says that and I think this is where those of us in the pro-life movement have to be much more extensive as a pro-life person. I've said that I care about life that it begins at conception but it doesn't end at birth and a life has to be more than simply caring about a child in the gestation period. It means also the child's education does that child live in the back of a car under a bridge

does that kid have access to a decent drinking water. Is he going to go to a school that's going to help prepare him for the future will he live in a safe neighborhood. That to me is also a passion of my pro-life position because I don't think life ends at birth. It just begins at conception. Well lots more to follow up on there with the next interview. So let's go back to our calls at this point and go to Norwich where Tom is on the line. Welcome Tom. Go ahead you're on the air. Hi Governor Huckabee. I'd like to first of all thank you for your public service. I think it's important to recognize that politics is a sacrifice as well as a privilege. And without further ado However I would like to ask you what I think is one of the hard questions you're talking about getting asked as you go around in the various primary states. You say you think that environmental conservation it is literally a calling from your religious beliefs and therefore obviously very important to you. Yet you often say government regulation is not the answer that you want businesses to come to their own

realization that the best environmental practices are often the best for their long term profitability. I find this position either cynically vague or hopelessly naive. As a businessman and history proves this you are in your business care very much about long term profits they care about short term increases in shareholder value. Exxon is perhaps the most profitable business in the world making just staggering amounts of money right now and yet one of the most destructive environmentally. Which is really more important to you I'd like an answer or is it the environment or is it your dislike of government regulation. Tom I think that's a fair question and I appreciate your asking and I hope I didn't leave the impression and obviously I did that government doesn't have any regulatory role. No they do. I mean when businesses don't operate consistently with good practices that are the old boy scout rule of leaving the campsite in better shape then yes I think government ought to come in and say you know we do have a right to protect future generations. So absolutely there is a role for

government regulatory authority what government ought to do though is facilitate free enterprise. It shouldn't complicate it. What government should do is to do everything it can to allow businesses to thrive. But when businesses try to thrive outside the law outside the law not just of some statute but the law. What I would call responsible citizenship and decent behavior and responsible stewardship of the environment then government has not just a responsibility they've got a right and a responsibility to ensure that other businesses who are trying to be responsible aren't the only ones carrying the ball. Thanks Tom for that call and a lot of e-mail questions too for you Governor Huckabee and I want to let everybody know we won't get to all of them today but I'll keep them for the next time Governor Huckabee comes on but here's one from Charles. He's from Bello's falls. He says you speak about good roads. How about passenger rail and national system rather than just the short haul system.

Charles also says by the way it's the Democratic Party not the Democrat Party. OK I stand corrected on that one Charles. Charles if I've written a book called From Hope to higher ground if you read it you'll read that I spend a lot of time talking about infrastructure which includes not just roads but airports bridges water systems sewer systems and rail systems and here's why. It's a matter of we're wasting an extraordinary amount of energy with people stalled in traffic with people driving long distances single people to a car sometimes that is stuck in traffic. I was stuck at the airport in New York last night waiting to get here. You know there's fuel burning up in the environment. There's a loss of productivity. I think there's another issue that never even talked about. Has anyone ever thought about how many moms and dads never get home to their daughter's dance recital or their son's soccer game because they're stuck in traffic because they're waiting on an airport tarmac for the plane to take off. I don't think we've ever really been able to calculate the incredible impact it's having on

families. The fact that we have a gridlocked and a choked infrastructure system it's completely outdated and antiquated and it hasn't been addressed and it has to be. Does that mean as president you would boost Amtrak funding whether it was specifically Amtrak or beginning to look at ways in which we could have cost efficient mass transit. You know I go to Japan I ride the bullet trains I'm thinking gosh this is great you can get there as quick as you can in an airliner. You go to Europe you're on a train that's on time. It's really something to be I think envious of and you come here and if you get on a train you know you may be hours or even days late and that's unacceptable. But gosh the airlines Anyone who's flown lately if you've had a great experience please write me a letter and tell me because I don't know of anybody that's enjoying travel these days. Let's go to Conway and talk to Eric. Go ahead Eric. You're on the Exchange. Thank you. I'm interested in election reform. Your views on that it seems

like we've gotten into a perennial industry here now with the national elections with huge amounts of money special interests including the media being that in big money in politics and there never seems to be any election reform and election reform. Erick you mean campaign finance reform or what. Yes. The idea that dollars are free speech and that special interests now have made it so it's a perennial industry just like big box stores coming to town or at auction or something like that. And how do we get this money out of the national elections. Well I think the process has almost become to the highest bidder I've said that we might as well put the presidency up on eBay and just let somebody bid it out. There are several things every attempt to quote reform the process usually reforms it because what you do you drive money to special interest and 527 independent groups. This whole idea that you're going to have an election process. Look what happened with McCain-Feingold what a disaster what you ended up with is that federal office holders can transfer the money they raise

for their Senate race into their presidential race which creates a wonderful loophole of advantage for them and a great disadvantage for guys who have been governors and other office holders. It's just part of the symptoms of a very sick system. And you know when you say you're only going to have this many contributions it's a problem maybe to say there's a start date. You can't start before it. I don't know what all the answers are using money before. Yes. And it's it's frustrating then you get into the free speech question but ultimately I'll tell you who could fix it if the American people said we're not going to let a candidate buy the election. We're not going to be told that just because this guy's raised more money that's how we're going to vote. That'll fix it. The quickest way possible. Well it's tough though because people like you with less money have a harder time getting your message out. It is. But you know we have a Web site Explora Huckabee dot com people can go there. You know I won my first election Laura on a average contribution of $9 $9 because I went after the people that nobody else wanted. Big money people wouldn't

support me. Never really have I believe that if a lot of Americans if all the hunters and the fishermen the runners the people who play musical instruments those are some of my passions and hobbies. If all the people in those arenas gave 25 to 50 dollars I'd win the election and I'd win it with not one single big sugar daddy out there making it happen. I have to ask you Governor Huckabee How odd a coincidence do you think it is that both you and Bill Clinton are from Hope Arkansas a town of less than 11000 people. Well it's probably quite unusual but in another way I tell people hope is not just a geographical place it also was a spirit. It was an attitude. It was ingrained into us that the possibilities in this country were unlimited. And I've lived my whole life as a kid who's been an underdog. You know I didn't grow up in a privilege family first kid in my entire energy even graduate high school. Then to go into college and graduate school I mean you know those are those are dreams come true. I've lived the American dream and I think it's indicative of what

we need in this country is a rekindling of that idea that in this country anything is possible and anybody can get there. What have you learned from Bill Clinton despite your political differences. You have a lot of differences but it's not uncommon to. What I respect about him and I know this just rankles a lot of Republicans. But don't take this away from him. Here's a guy who grew up in a dysfunctional family in an obscure small state who wanted to be president and he got there. It's an affirmation that America is still a country of dreams and opportunities for anybody. Well Governor Huckabee next time I hope we get a chance to dive into some more of the tax issues the more the social issues. A little bit more on Iraq. Thank you very much for your time tonight. Pleasure. Governor Mike Huckabee 2008 Republican presidential hopeful. He served as Arkansas's governor from 1996 to January 2007. The exchange is a production of new Hampshire Public Radio the producers Ty Fraley The engineer Dan Colgan in turn is Ellen Ratner. Theme music was composed by Bob Lord and performed by the Cabret not the exchange his executive

producer Keith shields and I'm Lorcan. In