The Exchange; Interview with Republican Presidential Candidate, Gary Bauer

From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Jill Kaufman. This is the exchange. Republican presidential candidate Gary Bauer describes himself as the son of a janitor from Newport Kentucky running against the son of a former president and the son of a tycoon. He's the former head of the conservative public policy think tank the Family Research Council and he served as an undersecretary of education in the Reagan administration. Gary Bauer in fact describes himself as a Reagan man. Reagan had the Soviet Union power has China and he has spent considerable time during this campaign rallying against China's membership in the World Trade Organization along the campaign trail. He has called on his GOP rivals to make a pledge to appoint only pro-life judges to the Supreme Court. If he's elected president Gary Bauer pledges to lower taxes spend more on defense and give parents the choice of where to send their kids to school despite the fact that he is somewhere at the bottom of the polls. Gary Bauer says he's hanging in there through the primary and with a change in the wind. Maybe after

Gary Bauer is our guest today what do you make of his agenda. You can read candidate Bauer at 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 8 hundred 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or in Concord the number is 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. Welcome Gary Bauer. Thank you. Good to be with you. Why are you running for president. What do you hope to accomplish if you get there. Well I I think like many people in my party I sort of ran out of shoes to throw at the television set in 1992 and 1996. There's a strong feeling in our party that we lost two elections not because our ideas were inferior but because we had two nominees in a row that seemed hesitant ashamed and embarrassed to make the case for conservative values and we sort of lost by default. I began to look around for politicians that I would feel better about as the nominee in 2000. And quite frankly I groet grew weary of searching. So after being urged on by some of our friends around the country and sort of testing the idea out and having some long family conversations over the dinner table I decided

to give it a try myself. So what are some of those conservative values that you think got lost in the message of the other Republican nominees back in 92 and 96. Well I mean certainly on an economic front or a governing front the idea that by and large the American people are better off when they are able to make decisions on their own about their jobs about economic issues rather than have government bureaucrats doing those things and that would be true also of education where we tend to trust parents and local school boards before we trust the bureaucracy in Washington on the social front. As you mentioned in your introduction I feel very strongly that we need to welcome all of our children into the world and protect them under the law. And I think that both Bush and Dole could have made that case much more eloquently than they did. They seemed hesitant they seemed embarrassed whereas Clinton and Gore seemed bold in their defense of one and a half million abortions a year on defense would be the

idea that the world is still a dangerous place and that we need to be strong and need to keep up our guard particularly with the spread of nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction. And then finally I'd like to see my party become more of the party of the little guy you mentioned and I emphasize I'm the son of a janitor. I think the thing that hurts my party are not issues like abortion and social issues but rather the perception that we we aren't really relevant to the rich working class or middle class family as they try to struggle with health care job insecurity housing costs social security whatever the issue is. And I believe that I've got a way of talking about those issues that will draw those voters to the party much the way Ronald Reagan did. You know yesterday we we had a conversation about centrism and talked a little bit about a recent Pew study that is citing politicians in both parties and independents are leading from the middle of the road and that citizens are content with that as well. I don't think you would

categorize yourself essentially as a centrist. I wonder how you do describe yourself and in the terms of the political spectrum and also in terms of the Republican Party as it is. Well I consider myself a Reagan conservative. I must admit that I'm not as fascinated with polls as many people are now and that that's actually something that that Reagan instilled in me too when I was in government he generally ignore polls. I don't know what most Americans would think about where I am I find on most of these issues in most audiences heads are nodding up and down when I talk about them so I'm not sure. I think the political spectrum is a little odd these days. You know what. What is the conservative position or the liberal position on health care. Some of my party tried to suggest the conservative position was that you shouldn't have the right to sue your HMO. I've been a conservative all my adult life and I can't find any conservative

principle that would require making my 76 year old mother powerless to deal with the health care bureaucracy. Well let's let's take some of the issue at a time let's talk about health care since since we're there you describe yourself as somebody who is quite pro-family. How do you propose to then keep American families healthy. How do you propose to provide them with health care. Right. Well make first of all there's a fundamental question. I don't believe that it is government's job to provide everybody with health care. I do think that government can play a role in helping low income and other at risk populations have more of an opportunity for decent health care than they would otherwise. There are a number of things we can do. I do support a patients bill of rights when it comes to dealing with HMO. I support the right to sue an HMO if they're guilty of malpractice. I think that health insurance premiums ought to be deductible for the individual. We allow the big corporations to deduct them but we don't allow individuals to so many people that can't afford health insurance now would

be able to if they could deduct the costs of the premium. I'd like to see in the case of Medicare and allowing older Americans to buy in to the federal health care system. Not surprisingly the politicians in Washington took care of themselves and the bureaucrats there. They've got a great health care system that covers over three million people and they get to choose from about 25 or 30 different policies maybe one policy will guarantee coverage for prescription drugs perhaps and other men will emphasize long in long term care. And each government employee gets to choose the one they like the best. I'd like to let elderly Americans buy into that same system. And I think we can save a lot of money and Medicare by subsidizing to some extent those elderly that would want to buy into that sort of cafeteria of plans. What do you make so far of the proposals from Mr. Bradley and Mr. Gore they're sweeping health care proposals that would be using the budget surplus. Right. Well I think you hit an important word when you said sweeping. I think what they're

proposing looks a lot like things that we did in the 60s that had a cost analysis attached to them that was inaccurate. And then we found out 10 or 15 years down the road that a very well-meaning and good sounding program had exploded into a budget monster that nobody can get control of. And I think we've got to be very careful that we don't in the effort to make things better provide incentives for businesses to drop the health insurance. We're already offering employees and thus make this a federal entitlement that would end up busting the budget. This is the exchange from New Hampshire Public Radio the Republican presidential candidate Gary Bauer is our guest today. Join us at 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 8 8 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. I clearly hear a theme coming through that there is too much big government. I hear it when you hear it when you speak about health care. I hear it when you mentioned education. Let's talk a little further about education. During a recent

Q&A somewhere in New Hampshire along the campaign trail you said something along the lines of them hoping to abolish the education department if you had the opportunity. I realize it's a long process to get there. What to what end. Well first of all we've only had a Federal Education Department since 1980. People think it's something we've had for you know a hundred years or whatever. All the way up until 1980 American education did quite well without having a specific federal bureaucracy that dealt with it. I think the the problem with the department is that once you concentrate in one place that kind of an organization you give the impression that Washington D.C. is somehow going to save American education. I don't believe that's going to happen. We've got 17000 school districts the problems in Manchester New Hampshire are going to be very different than what the school board in Queens New York is going to be dealing with the problems in a rural area in Iowa is going to be quite different than what's happening in Los

Angeles. And when bureaucrats from Washington try to fashion one solution for 17000 school districts they end up inevitably making things worse. I would block grant money use tax credits vouchers and so forth. Right now only $1 out of four is getting from Washington D.C. into the classroom. I would try to make sure that all that money got to the parents the teachers and the students for whom it was intended. The debate about school choice comes back again and again and that vouchers and some say charter schools are the undoing of public schools. Even the charter schools are public schools. How do you defend supporting vouchers if they could or could they hurt the public school system. Well I think what critics are arguing whether they realize it or not is that if we allow captive parents any opportunity the result will be that public education will fail. Well that's saying that the only reason public schools have people in them is

because they're trapped with no options that would be a horrible statement to make about public schools. I think competition is always good. People complained when the auto industry in Detroit had to deal with competition. But we ended up with a better American car as a result. And I think that schools in which everybody would leave if they got a voucher are schools that probably ought to be empty anyway because they're not doing what a school supposed to do. If the school is doing its job a voucher or a tax credit won't be of any harm to it. I have one more question to ask before we go to the culture and they're definitely coming in. You speak about a breakdown and the American family. Do you think as a president you can really do anything to influence the culture of American families. Well the what we've experienced in the last 30 years is the result of millions and millions of individual decisions that Americans make about their own families their own priorities. What's going to be number one in their lives

and a president obviously can do very little about that. But I think that a president does have moral authority and whether the issue is racial reconciliation or how we treat the poor or calling Americans to a higher standard as far as the value we put on families and on children. I do think there are things that a president can do in those areas that can be use when there are some policy things too. Let's send the marriage penalty and you find a world where we want to tax people and additional $8300 just because it's an air bridge just because they get married. Let's not have a welfare system that says young women if you drop out of school get pregnant and don't marry the man will send you a check. But if you stay in school wait until you get married to have a child and take a job you're on your own. I mean we we provide incentives for bad behavior and penalties for good behavior. So as president I would want to clean up public policy in that area and then I would want to use the bully pulpit of the office to call

people to a higher standard. And what is what would you be saying from that bully pulpit. What is the higher standard of that message that that you know in speeches and in ceremonies and so forth to elevate the jobs of mother and father to remind Americans of all the things they accomplish in their lives. Few will likely be as important as the job they do in raising the next generation of young Americans. And to remind them that the research is overwhelming that every child has to have somebody that's crazy about him that puts that child in front of anything else in front of the prospect of a raise or a career advancement before the prospect of a new spouse before anything that somebody has got to say that child is my number one priority. Now there's a fine line here you don't want to hector the American people you don't want to wag your finger at them or act as if you've got your life all straightened out and everybody else is messed up. But I think a president can

call us to the better angels of our nature. Do you think you're campaigning against the Clinton administration's moral stance than what we've seen in the last year or two. You know I don't really look at it that way. I mean I think Bill Clinton is yesterday's man and my party makes a mistake if it concentrates too much on the payoffs. Instead we ought to be offering a governing vision for the future and what kind of America we'd like to see in the next century. We're talking to Gary Bauer today a Republican presidential candidate. Join us at 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 8 hundred 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. In Concord that number is 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. William in Putney Vermont you're on the exchange Good morning William. Good morning. Yes. I haven't heard anything about them in general during this campaign I haven't heard as much environmental conversations and maybe other people would like. And usually I mean we're talking about the new morality and

I wonder how protecting the environment and in general conservatives seem to be quite interested in protecting business or in people's incomes and I wonder if protecting the environment is also somewhere in his concerns. What kind of environmental legislation or support. Thanks for the call William. The environment is important. I don't call myself an environmentalist but I do wear easily the label conservationists. Teddy Roosevelt was one of my favorite presidents. And and I think he had in many ways the right balance Sunday. So I think it is a matter of balance. We obviously want to have economic opportunity. We want Americans particularly working class and lower middle class Americans to have the chance for a better way of life. But we want to do things in such a way that for our children and grandchildren they will still be able to enjoy the great bounty that God has

provided in this country. I think we look at each issue with that balance. I'm not one that believes that the government has nothing to do in this area I think there are things we can do. On the other hand I tend to resist putting environmental concerns in front of everything else including economic growth. So as president I would I would look at each issue separately and weigh this balance between the need to conserve for the future and the need to provide an opportunity for people to better themselves economically. So what for instance would you favor. I mean what kind of legislation to improve our water improve our air do you. Well you know William I think the legislation we've got on the books in those two areas are having a tremendous positive impact. I'm not sure there is a major need to have new legislation in those areas. We've got a lot fewer cities the day that have unacceptable air quality than we did before.

Water quality is much better than it was in the past. And I think we just need to continue to build on the successes that we've already had. William thanks for coming in today. Join us today at 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 8 8 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Over in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. The Republican candidate Gary Bauer is our guest today. He says he represents the party of the little guys he's not so sure he is in agreement with the rest of the Republican Party and the message that they're trying to get through. He believes there should be less government in education and health care at least to begin with in those two areas. Join us today questions for the candidate welcomed. Again 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. Let's go to Nick next Nick in Bedford Welcome to the Exchange. Thank you. Mr. Barr pleasure here you on the air again. Thank you. Good to talk to and be putting it very simply the Democrats are very successful in portraying the Republicans as extreme. And I have not seen anything on the part of the Republicans as a general strategy to in fact show that

extreme left wing faction controls the existing Democratic Party like most of the lies emanating from the Democratic side. Are you convinced the old time Democratic supporters that this is the old party of Harry Truman. And I'd like Stevenson whereas in fact it's not. What would you suggest well if you or any other candidate running for office. Do we even the playing field and to point to the public who is woefully unaware of what liberal and conservative is that in fact they have more to fear in certain areas from the Democrats than any so-called extremism from the right. Well that's a great question. You know words are important and I think that generally the left in American politics has controlled the high ground with words. They've been able to use labeling very effectively. But I think your analysis is correct and I think it's important for a presidential nominee to speak as truthfully as he can in debates in other forums to try to make the point that you're making. I think the candidates are afraid to speak because when they speak out they are scared. People

are scared because they've been conditioned to be scared of anyone who speaks clearly and speaks his mind. Well Gary Bauer and Nick what is it that you think the Democrats are not saying that you want to hear them be specific about. Well I mean I think when next trying to say is that is that the National Democratic Party is generally way out of step with the values of most Americans but because the Republicans are not very aggressive in pointing that out for most Americans they're oblivious to how far out of step to national Democratic Party is. Let me give you an example that will probably be very controversial in New Hampshire. The polls are overwhelming that Americans would prefer voluntary school prayer to be back. Bill Clinton is against that. Al Gore is against that. They put judges on the court that are against that. And yet they get the votes of millions and millions of Americans that very much would like prayer back in schools. I think they get away with that because the Republicans virtually never talk about it. They never bring it up in the debates they never really make it a serious issue. I think there's a number of issues like that that lead people like my parents and the people I grew

up with back in Newport Kentucky you know blue collar neighborhood in the 80s to abandon the Democratic Party after a lifetime of voting Democratic and vote for Ronald Reagan twice. Now Mr. Barr earlier you said you don't put much weight into polls but how do you how do we know that the American people many of them as you said would like school prayer. Well I would I would I said I don't put much weight in polls what I meant was I don't allow polls to determine my position. But no matter who's polled on whether it's Gallup or whoever. They always show about 75 to 80 percent of the public favors voluntary school prayer. In fact the irony is that when these issues come up in Congress the Democrats usually rail against any legislation in this area and usually prevent it from coming up for a vote. But if it actually comes up to a vote. Dozens and dozens of Democrats vote in favor of it because they know they're in districts where if it looked like they were against voluntary school prayer or if it looked like they were really in favor of abortion in all nine months of the pregnancy they would lose their seats. So

I think these social issues are are very important issues and I think Nick is hitting on an important point that the National Democratic Party is out of step with where most Americans are. They are religious issues as well. Well no. You know I think there is. If there are religious issues then so is civil rights so is fighting poverty. I mean most of the major issues we deal with end up having a moral core to them. The question of whether we should treat all men and women alike regardless of the color of their skin is essentially a moral argument about the quality of men created by God. The obligation we have to help somebody that's down on their luck is ultimately a moral issue or a religious issue about what our obligations are to each other. So I don't think we would want to say that because they have a moral component to them that they're inappropriate to be discussed in the public square. You do have a great following of religious conservative population. Let me ask you what you see as the future of the religious conservative movement in the U.S.. I

don't know. I think Prus analysis of the movement has been a little off center you want for years ignoring these kinds of voters and then all of a sudden they became fascinated with one or two organizations like the Christian Coalition and so forth. I think the bottom line is that there are millions of Americans and always have been who are conservative politically and and who either go to church synagogue or to Catholic mass or whatever on the weekends and that's going to be a factor in American politics for a long long time. That is a accurate description of a good segment of the population people in church on Sunday of work on Monday and in the voting booth on Tuesday. And I think they'll continue to be a powerful force in American politics and quite frankly if they were not a force the country would be in deep trouble. Your campaign manager said that there are two primaries going on in fact that there's a conservative primary and there's a moderate primary. Is the race for the conservative vote uniquely between you and Steve

Forbes. Well I don't know. I mean there were times when I was told it was between me and Dan Quayle. And then and then he laughed and then I was told it was between me him and Senator Bob Smith a great guy but he dropped out and then I was told it was between me and Pat Buchanan. And I guess he's spending the day with you're going to draw from this. And so if this pattern continues let me say yes it's between me and Steve Forbes and I expect him to be gone any day now. Candidate and your best for that candidate Gary Bauer is our guest join us today at 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord. The number is 2 2 4 8 9 8 9 more of your questions for the candidate coming up when we get back from the break. You're listening to the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. Tomorrow on the exchange. Wendy Kaminer on what she says is a rational approach to religious and spiritual beliefs at the end of the century. Join us tomorrow for the exchange. Support for the exchange comes from our contributing listeners and James Taylor and company

furniture makers creators of fine handcrafted mission in Shaker furniture now in their new more spacious gallery on Hampton. Merrimac street Valvo in Manchester offering a test drive the certified Volvo with a Volvo certified 12000 mile limited warranty. Information at 18:00 2 8 1 8 0 1 Buy and from BlueCross BlueShield of New Hampshire know from BlueCross BlueShield. Looking forward to keeping members in a healthy state an independent licensee of the BlueCross BlueShield Association. This is the exchange from New Hampshire Public Radio. I'm Jill Kaufman. Republican presidential candidate Gary Bauer is our guest today. You've been hearing about his position on taxes and health care and education in the media. We're talking about THEM TODAY here on the exchange. Join us join him at 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 and conquered the number is 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. Again it's 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in

Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. But let's get back to some of the issues that you are forming in your platform. Social Security is as you described the most pro-family federal program how do you propose saving it. Well where I grew up back in Kentucky the elderly would have been living in poverty if it weren't for social security. And I think one of the problems my party has had is that they have sounded over the years as being hostile to Social Security as if it were some sort of mistake. And even today you know I've I've noted with with interest that Steve Forbes has a plan on the table that that makes it clear he intends to face social security out. Now he's juggling with the figures and I don't think he's telling the truth. But the bottom line is the saying he wants to phase it out. I want to preserve it. I think we made promises to our parents and grandparents we ought to keep those promises. The politicians in Washington are getting ready to sign a budget deal that will take another $17 billion out of the Social Security surplus. They told us they were putting that money in a lockbox and zapped of Washington for safe crackers.

Had they've gotten their hands on it again. I want to preserve the system. I'm I'm proposing a 20 percent payroll tax cut for current workers. That will mean that when they retire in 30 or 40 years their social security check would be a little bit smaller than it would be otherwise. But in the meantime they're going to get 20 percent of their money now. Now Forbes would require them to put that money on Wall Street. I let them do with the money whatever they want. They can use it for health care they can use it for a down payment on a home that can pay for tuition for their child. They can invest it in their future. However they would like. And more importantly my plan still keeps a social security system there as a safety net that that 20 percent cut is is cut onto the existing deduction or that existing that the existing payroll tax that you pay the Fika taxes that's a call that you and your employer both pay. And then what to you. But in terms of saving what is out there now in terms of maybe it is railing against what's happening in Washington as you see it how do you propose to rescue the

pot of money that is swiftly dwindling. As president I will stop the practice of dipping into that surplus to pay for everybody's pet schemes and both parties have been guilty of this. My father worked for 50 years. And every week he had a portion of his check go into the Social Security system and he believed in it with all of his heart that somebody in Washington got that money and invested it for he said that after he passed away which he did about 10 years ago. My mother would get back what he had worked so hard for. We now know that for 30 years the politicians have spent the money that men like my father sent in and that there's nothing in those accounts right now but IOUs. I'm going to stop that practice I can do it unilaterally as president of allowing that money to be dipped into. We're going to let that surplus build back up and as a result we'll be able to continue the program for many many decades.

How do you balance your vision of getting getting big government out of people's lives giving back local control and vowing to take care of people after retirement with a program like Social Security. Well I mean I think as I said to an earlier caller about the environment I think everything is a balance. I'm not a I'm not a sink or swim conservative that says you know you either make it or you know tough life's for bad breaks. I do think we have an obligation to people that are going through trouble I think as a community. We want to reach out to those that are in need. And I think in the case of Social Security you know this isn't welfare. I mean this is the money that people did work for and contributed. And they've got a right to get it back. Eight hundred eight 9 2 6 4 7 7 8 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 and conquer the number 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. Republican presidential candidate Gary Bauer is our guest join us today on the exchange. Dick in Auburn you're on the exchange Hello. Good morning Joe. Good morning Mr. Boehner. Hi Dick. Glad you're running for president. I like your ideas. However you open the shows stating that the government

should stay out of the family and family should have more control of what they do. Then you said the child should be number one priority of a family and be loved on both sides. Yet you want to stop abortion which these people that have these abortions don't want these children. And I feel that you know America is the land of the free the home of the brave. Somebody whose right to have an abortion. How can the government tell someone you can't do that. And on the other hand tells you you need more family input. Well Dick it gets down to a really basic question of whether we're dealing with one life when we talk about abortion or two lives I believe that the medical evidence is overwhelming that we're talking about two individuals the mother and her unborn child. And I think when a nation goes down the road we've gone down in the last 30 years of saying that this one defenseless

human life can be eliminated at a whim for any reason at any time that we pay a terrible price for that. We undermine the sanctity of life all across our culture. The interesting thing is that once abortion on demand became the law of the land 26 years ago child abuse went up out of wedlock births went up. We've got we've had more of those things every year since abortion on demand became legal the exact opposite of what the pro-abortion people said. Now we're going even further we've got the horrible procedure known as partial birth abortion where a baby that could clearly live outside the womb is destroyed in the process of being born. And we also have now a professor at Dartmouth is arguing that even in the first six months after birth a newborn is not really a human being and that the mother if she doesn't want it ought to have the right to take its life. This is a slippery slope and we need to get away from it.

Mr. Barr do you see any middle ground any any room for discussion on abortion rights. Well you know we had room for discussion up until 26 years ago up until 26 years ago. Each of the States dealt with this issue and they came out with different results some of them banned it altogether. Others allowed it in the first trimester that the conversation ended when five justices in Washington D.C. struck down every state law in all 50 states and tried to say that this could no longer be settled in the political process. And I think that's created a pressure cooker that has terribly split American society my judges are going to believe that our children ought to be protected by the law. I believe the words in the Declaration of Independence are very clear about this. I can't find the word abortion anywhere in the Constitution or declaration but in the declaration it does or does say all men are created equal not born equal are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights among these the right to life.

It's the first right listed that me back pedal a little bit. Do you think that states should have their own control over this law or should it be. Should abortion whichever way is a federal mandate. I believe the Constitution has a right to life that has not yet been recognized. If I had my druthers I would want to court to recognize this fundamental right to life. I think what's more likely to happen however is that a future Supreme Court will strike down Roe versus Wade and turn the issue back over to the states abortion and gun control and a few other areas are those hot hot buttons in everyone's campaign. Yes. Let me take you to another one. I want to keep you right where you are. Jerry Falwell is a well known member of the religious right and he one can almost say seems to be softening on his position on homosexuality. Let me be clear that he says that he's now open to having discussions at least about gay rights in church. What is your reaction to that. Well I mean Jerry Falwell has never asked me for advice either when he had a hard line

or when he's taken the tact that he's taken in recent days. For me the issue is relevant in politics only and in one sort of basic sense and that is that there is an organized homosexual rights movement in America and they have a very clear political agenda. And as it ends up I disagree with virtually every item on their political agenda. I do not believe the marriage laws should be changed. I think that marriage is between a man and a woman. I don't think that the law ought to be used to browbeat the Boy Scouts or the Salvation Army to change their traditional rules on homosexual counsellors and so forth. And finally I don't think public schools ought to be used to propagandize to children about the value of that particular way of living beyond that the issue from a political standpoint is irrelevant. But if a group comes into the public square with a legislative agenda and you know particularly one that's as radical as this one. I think they ought to expect opposition and they're going to get opposition and I'm certainly not going to be deterred

by their reaction to my position to back out of this debate. I think it's very important that marriage stay between a man and a woman. Let me in a parallel with big government versus little government or local control. Let me ask you Does a personal Does your personal feeling on individuals who are homosexual have any weight into to how you make public policy decisions and rally against these homosexual forms. Well I mean I think all of us are are a product of of our faith beliefs of our cultural beliefs of the values we learned their home. But in this case I think you know you don't have to rely on any of those things you can just rely on about 4000 years of Western civilization. We've never said that marriage is anything other than a man or a woman. I can't imagine a more radical change that could be made in American society. One of the fears I have concerns that I have is that this change will be made once again

not by voters. They will never vote to do this. They wouldn't vote to do it in San Francisco but that unelected judges might try to force a sonnet force this on us. I think that's a possibility in Vermont right now with the state Supreme Court I think it would be a devastating thing to do to the institution of marriage and Vermont. The Republican presidential candidate Gary Bauer is our guest join us today at 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 8 8 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. In Concord the number is 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. Sheila in Manchester you're on the exchange Sheila thanks for calling in. Hi. Thank you. I just wanted to say that I was really impressed with so much of what you said and he's somebody who has grown up pretty much in a Democratic family and voted Republican for the past two years. It was so refreshing to hear your stances to hear somebody actually a candidate actually talk about very controversial issues in detail. Oh shit like that. And yet you know I totally agree with your stance on abortion and

then when you say things about education and also prayer in school I've always felt like so many people that I've spoken to have felt very positively about those things. And in addition to that I've been somebody who has worked in human services for about 10 years. One of the things that I've noted is that Republicans often do take a very negative stance towards the security system and some of the things that you said both about unwed mothers who basically are dealing with a lot of disincentive it is actually a reality truth that we need to build more incentive for these people to help them to be more self-sufficient and also with the Social Security system. I am a specialist right now. I work as a benefits specialist for community mental health center. One of the realities is our elders have put so much money into that system and many of them are living in poverty right. And that is not well see and that is an insurance program that absolute They are not reaping the benefit of that. And for a Republican candidate

then I will vote Republican even if somebody is not clear on that issue only because of how strongly I believe about the pro-life issue. But you're a Republican candidate really hit the nail on the head. The reality is this is something that people have invested in for decades that they might my show. I really appreciate your call. You know you agree with me on almost everything I do and I'm going to count on you as you vote for me in the primary. That's my right. And I can you know I can pretty much speak for my family because almost every one of my family members of voting Republican or Democrat. Thanks for the call Sheila it means a great deal to me. And keep up your great work for your community and for the people in the community that are on hard times. Sheila thanks a lot for calling in today. Gary Bauer is our guest join us today at 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 8 hundred 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. Bob in Concord you're on the Exchange. Good morning. Hi Mr. Bauer. I wanted to ask you a question of where do

you fit your principles with respect to government and how do you reconcile that with your participation with the Republican party sir. Well gosh it's kind of a broad question. I think every candidate ought to have principles if they're going to be running for governmental offshore. You know I'm just saying that in a little time that we have it's hard to describe to me I believe I believe in the founding fathers did. First of all that only a virtuous people can remain free. You know that it is important that we regulate ourselves by our own conscience and so forth and not do some of the things that the law may permit us to do. I think government is best when it's closest to the people. If the school board in Manchester makes a mistake their neighbors know where they live. They could just walk down the block and talk to somebody or vote them out in the next election when a bureaucrat in Washington makes a mistake. The average citizen can't reach that individual except under the most extraordinary circumstances. Another principle I follow is that when a person works and makes money the money

belongs to them not to Washington. The the bias here has to be that the people who labor have the right to the resources and then through their elected officials they can decide how much they want to invest in government to help others. I think in Washington there's an attitude that all money belongs to government and they get to decide how much of a week we can keep. I believe in in responsibility and accountability. I think one of the worst things that's happened in the last decade or so in Washington is that there's no accountability. We've just gone through the worst spy scandal according to some in the history of the country or at least since the Rosenbergs. And yet nobody has been fired. Nobody's on trial nobody's in the docket. If there isn't any accountability for that. Speaking of China. Right. If there is no accountability for the widespread stealing of our of our national security and our secrets I don't know what there is accountability for. So those things local control responsibility accountability freedom being tempered by virtue those are sort of the philosophical

framework that I use and I think does fit very well into the Republican Party. Bob thanks for coming in. You did a nice job. Mr. surprise. Let's let's stay on China for a moment. The proposed trade accord with China that was announced this week is a huge event. Well you say that you want to open the door to new trade and to export markets everywhere in the world. You're quite opposed to having China in the World Trade Organization. How is that. Well a couple reasons. First of all I think that China has played us for suckers for 10 years. We give them most favored nation status every year and then we sit down and negotiate with them and we get virtually nothing in return. So I think we need to have a more realistic policy toward them. Second of all I think that the evidence is now overwhelming that China is in the middle of a massive arms build up their own internal documents indicate they want to replace the United States as the premier power in the Pacific. I don't think the policy makers in Washington have dealt with that yet. I don't think they have the faintest idea how to deal with it. And they think that trade will somehow make it all right. I

think actually trade could make it worse. That is that trade with China is not changing China nearly as much as it's changing us. It's making us forget what our most deeply held values are. And it's turned a bunch of large corporations that ought to know better and to apologise for China's actions whether it's the crackdown on human rights the abridgement of religious liberty the things that we've seen in Tiananmen Square or the arrests of people but only because of their faith. But couldn't a business relationship make for a less antagonistic culture between the two countries. Well would we argue that with anything else. I mean we certainly didn't argue that when it came to South Africa we all knew that the nature of apartheid was so evil that doing business with it was unacceptable and we ended up bringing the South African government to its knees. How can we want to do business with a country that literally takes its women away if they have a second child without government permission and forcibly aborts them how can we do business with a country that if it catches you doing a Bible study

it will take you off to prison. Basic fundamental human rights are being routinely violated there and unlike our history where we've always spoken up elements in both parties seem to be turning a blind eye to it I think it's a matter of great shame and embarrassment to us. And I think the policy is very close to if not actually appeasement at this point. If you become president do you propose to build up the defense system even more. How is that is that is that connected to what you see in China. Well we we've allowed America's defenses to really decline. We've gone from a 600 ship Navy down to 325 ships from 18 Army divisions to 10. Seven of them are already deployed abroad. Three that are remaining two of them are not combat ready. And during the same period of time of decline we've had the spread of weapons of nuclear of mass destruction to countries like North Korea. I think we need to deploy a missile defense system to protect the families of New England New

Hampshire the rest of the country. And I think we need with the lessons of this century are that the way to avoid a horrible war is to be strong. And I think that we have forgotten once again as we have a number of times in this century that the best way to maintain the peace is to be strong and we need to build our defenses back up to an acceptable level before we get back to the colors. Let me just take you to another part of the world for a moment. Are you at all concerned about U.S. security with the upcoming transfer of the Panama Canal. I am. When the treaty was signed there was a provision put in it very intentionally that if there was anything going on that would affect American security the transfer of the canal could be delayed. And we now know that a Chinese company that is actually owned by the People's Liberation Army has purchased the land on both ends of the canal. I think that's a very disturbing development and I think it calls for a slowdown in the transfer and a reexamination of whether something's going on there that might come back to haunt us. Is your desire to bolster the defense system a desire just to be a threat or do you

believe that you would you would act if if if called to as president. Well I the first requirement of any president has is that he protects the national security of the United States. And as president I would do everything that I had to do to make sure that America maintained its liberty and that we were safe from foreign threats. Gary Bauer is our guest today. He's running for president. He's a Republican presidential candidate. Join us today at 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 8 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 and conquered the numbers 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. Tom in North Conway you're on the Exchange. Hello. Hello good morning and how are you. Mr. Bauer good Tom how are you. Very good. Pleasure to talk to you. First of all I want to say I would be inclined to vote for you because of your your stance on the issues particularly abortion and your opposition to the gay rights agenda. But I have a concern. OK. And this is the concern you come out of a base of Evans helical Christians the family research council which I support most of those views and I've heard you numerous times on Dr. Dobson's Focus on the

family and my concern is this from that base. I have never ever and I'm sure that I'm wrong on this but I have never heard a Catholic voice at any of these forums. And one of your comments earlier kind of pointed this out you said if people go to church they go to synagogue and go to Catholic mass. That's separate from you know Christian church. Two questions Do you consider Catholics Christians number one and number two why are there no discernible Catholic voices in your in your campaign addressing the sensibilities the cultural sensitivities of not just Catholics but non-evangelical fundamentalist Protestant Christians. Well Tom first of all thanks for saying that you're close to wanting to vote for me and maybe I can bring you the rest of the way. First of all I said Catholic Church sure because I was trying to be inclusive. I wanted to very specifically include Catholics and in my vision. Second of all about half of my Washington campaign

is is are made up of Catholics. I've been very proud over the years both of the family research council and in this campaign to have a strong Catholic presence on my campaign manager is Catholic. About a third of the staff at the Family Research Council was Catholic. Last week I went to St. Anselm's here in New Hampshire and gave a speech on what I think is one of the last bigotries tolerated in America and it's anti-Catholic bigotry I think in the arts. And then among the cultural elites we permit things to be said about Catholicism that we would not permit. About any other religious faith in America. So I'm going to continue and I promised at St. Anselm's to speak out forcibly about anti-Catholic bigotry and I don't believe this campaign has any chance of success and less. It brings to its banner a large numbers of Catholic voters and I'm going to do everything I can to accomplish that. And I'm voting for you. Thanks Tom. Thank you. Thanks for coming in today. We've just got a few minutes left so I'm going to try to get a few a few more of your potential voters in there and and others who may want to

challenge you as well. Ken in Hinsdale you're on the exchange Good morning Ken. Yes Mr. Bauer. Yes sir. I was wondering if you think about what you think about individual rights on the decline in this country. That individual rights are declining in the country. Yes. Well I do think that in some areas that's true I think government has become too powerful in a number of areas and that individual rights are declining because of that. But I I also it's kind of ironic there's other parts of our culture in society where sort of radical individualism is being elevated above everything else. In other words we'll say to many of our young people for example look you've got a right to do anything if it feels good. So it's sort of a mixed picture. I don't want our rights to free speech and other things to be a bridge and I'll fight against that. But I also want to teach our young people that there is a something bigger than their own individual pleasure at any given moment and that there are things that we ought to sacrifice for and recognize in our communities and in our

families. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me again Mr. Bauer. I want to bring up probably something that's not not easy to face. You're not necessarily a household word yet. You've noticed that you but I think you you this morning you know at least among our listeners you know did you hear Gary Bauer on the exchange today. How are you planning to become more visible in the next couple of months. Well I'm my father taught me that if you want something you've got to work harder than everybody else. And you know if you go back seven months ago when we started all this there were 15 of us either in this race or ready to get in the race. And there's only six of us left. You know where I grew up if you're the last guy standing at the end of the fight that means you won. So I intend to be the last guy standing. I'm going to talk as much as I can about these issues try to touch as many hearts as I can and urge people to ignore the polls and ignore the conventional wisdom and do what New Hampshire has done so many times in the past which is score a tremendous political surprise that upsets the political establishment if you want to do that.

I'm the guy for you. Hypothetically speaking if you don't win the presidency. Are you hoping to accomplish something with this campaign with being you know representing the Republicans as the party of the little guy. Are you trying to do anything. Well you know being in this debate is important and I do hope I make my party more sensitive to the concerns of Main Street and rich American families. But I want to make it clear I'm in this to go all the way. I think we've surprised people already we're third in fund raising second and the total number of donors first and the number of women that have donated to our campaign which I'm very proud about. So I think we've already surprised people and I think the biggest surprise of all is going to be when I'm inaugurated in 2001. Let's try to get one more call in in the next couple of minutes. Peter in Bridgewater you're on the Exchange. Hello Peter. Hi. Hi Peter how are you doing. Good. How are you. Earlier in your show you made reference to voluntary school prayer. Yes sir. It's my understanding that voluntary school prayer is already legal in this

country and that there are a fair number of court decisions in support of this. And in my research on this I've found that the phrase voluntary school prayer is a code word for community and for school prayer. And so I would like you if you would to explain your view on this and you had also made some statements regarding correlations between lack of school prayer and various social ills. Without any evidence of a linkage between them and you could similarly make an argument that there's a relationship between lack of school prayer and a global warming or depleted fisheries for that matter arise. Right. You can't in the living of the Third World. Let's get an answer from Gary. We have him in. You could make that correlation but it would be silly. Look a voluntary school prayer means the right of students if they want to band together to offer a prayer in a classroom or at a football game. And in fact the

efforts to do that have been met with incredible resistance by local school boards. And there's a case going all the way to the Supreme Court about that right now out of Texas on whether students can pray at a football game which is a common practice throughout the south as far as there being a correlation between social breakdown and a lack of school prayer. I think the fact that we took prayer out back in the 60s and then a lot of other things also happened the breakdown of the family the coarsening of our culture that all those things together have contributed to the terrible headlines we see today school shootings newborn babies being thrown in trash cans. Unspeakable crimes like the dragging to death of a black man in Texas. Values do matter. And I think it would be a great thing if kids could read the Ten Commandments again and wouldn't think that that was a challenge against the constitution. Well we leave it with the Ten Commandments. OK Gary Bauer I want to thank you very much for joining us. Great to be with you. Great cause. Yes great listeners we always we always are happy for them. Thank you.

Listeners out there the exchange is a prediction of New Hampshire Public Radio. The producers are Eric Erickson and Mary Krueger the assistant producer is Laura Colbert. Our engineer is she Ziller. I'm Jill Kaufman