The Exchange; Interview with Dennis Kucinich on Second Presidential Bid

From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Laura convoy and this is the exchange. In a presidential campaign where both Republican and Democratic candidates are accused of waffling flip flopping and pandering to all sides. You can say this about Dennis Kucinich. It's clear where he stands for more than a decade. A Democratic congressman from Ohio and two time presidential candidate has steadfastly promoted a liberal agenda. He'd like to establish a Department of Peace and the federal government he's for single payer universal health care. He supports full gay marriage rights and in his most recent campaign swing through New Hampshire this week is reviving his earlier calls for the impeachment of President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. This 0 8 presidential bid is Kucinich is second in the 2004 New Hampshire primary. He received less than two percent of the vote and polls put him in the low single digits this time around too. But Kucinich doesn't let the numbers bother him. A deeply spiritual man. He has faith in

the power of his ideas and the possibility of an upset. Here in New Hampshire today in eastern Ohio Congressman and Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich returns to our studios. We'll take your calls too of course the exchange number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. E-mails are welcome at exchange. NHP York please try your best to keep those e-mails brief. Congressman Kucinich we last talked in April Welcome back to the Exchange. Good to see you. Good to be here with you. In addition to what you read and I appreciate the introduction I'm also focusing on a full employment economy and jobs were all education for all. And health care for all and not for profit system. I mean these are things as I go around New Hampshire starting to get a lot of excitement about not just the message of this campaign but the possibility that the people of New Hampshire could really cause America to take a totally new direction by voting for me in the January 8th primary.

Well and maybe we'll have time to get into the details of jobs for all education for all health care for all. I do want to ask you about your campaign itself though. The New Republic Magazine profiled in July was pretty critical congressman of your efforts this time saying your fundraising is less than last time and that beyond the debates you know they said you haven't been campaigning as a national candidate you're kind of preaching to the choir and being being. What do you make of that criticism that this is not a serious all out effort Gloria in July. He probably wrote it in May. It's near December. We've been campaigning continuously the people of New Hampshire have seen me. And so you know they that snide article means zero you've got to look to where we are now. I mean just I know this November I just spent nine continuous days in this state we have headquarters here in Manchester in Dover and cane. We're opening one up in Concord. We may be opening one up in Nashua. We are on the move. And you know whatever somebody wrote half a year ago is irrelevant.

I have an email actually from someone in Iowa the first in the nation caucuses you know this is from Dan Clark in Muscatine Iowa. He says Dennis will remember I told him a couple of weeks ago that I consider him the best on many issues. Sadly however he has no organization in our state and must be declared missing in action as a contender for any showing whatsoever in the January 3rd caucuses. Iowans are asking how Dennis can be considered credible as a candidate unless his campaign has a chance of catching fire in New Hampshire. So were you. Well it's great to be here on Iowa Public Radio. I mean you know I'm in New Hampshire and I'm telling you that we are making a concerted effort in this state Iowa. I think that New Hampshire and the people of this state are key to what's going to happen in America in the next eight years. And so our campaign is making a concerted effort and we feel there is a chance for a breakthrough here. When people hear this message jobs for all health care for all education for all people save our Constitution. People are responding.

You're so far at about 3 percent in the polls here in New Hampshire. Well you know what. There's plenty of time. You know a lot of people haven't decided which way they're going to go. And I don't take for granted anything. I'm out there working. You've been here for nine days and you're hamstrung. And you said campaigning. So sounds like New Hampshire is pretty critical to the success of your campaign. I'm just I'm just curious you know why don't I stand here. Why not. I I'm here to talk about New Hampshire. OK. All right. We'll talk about. I'm glad that every one from New Hampshire is listening and if you're listening from Iowa I love you too. Well I want to ask you another question now Congressman some commentators have cheered John saying that even if you don't when you're playing an important role that you're nudging the Democratic candidates in a way they need to be nudged on the Iraq war on Iran on health insurance what do you think of that assessment of your campaign that you even if you're still low in the polls that you were performing talking about. You keep talking about polls and I would hope that someone with the depth that you have

we could get into issues and we will instead of just talking about polls. We will. Polls don't vote people vote. Now I just want to go to this point about where I am with respect to the other Democratic candidates. An issue of the war I'd be nice to think that the candidates are moving in the right direction. But Senators Clinton Obama and Edwards have all said a nationally televised debate that they can see a role for America in Iraq through 2013 and perhaps beyond. I say we have to end the war and end the occupation close the bases and bring our troops home. And I'm ready to do that with a plan embodied in nature and one two three four plan to end the Iraq war which can be ended 90 days from the time that I take office and I work with the U.N. with people at the U.N. in developing this plan. And so I'm you know I'm the one who's ready to take us in a new direction. They're not being pushed in any direction. They're ready to continue to stay in Iraq. And all of them have said with respect to Iran all options are on the table I say we can not have a military option at this point because it's actually planning an

aggressive war which is illegal. I want to talk to you about Iraq in just a moment but also remind our audience that you can join us 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 800 8 9 2 and HPR. E-mails are welcome to exchange at NHP yard. Today any exchange. Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich a Democratic presidential candidate returns to our studios one more time that exchange number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Let's talk about Iraq Congressman. A lot has changed since you were here in April. Some of the headlines indicate the violence is down. Community life returning to normal political reconciliation at least at the local level. Republicans say hey look the U.S. strategy is working. Let's not mess up. Let's let's let's stay the course. We've heard those stories for four weeks now and America doesn't torture people. I mean the fact of the matter is that this administration took us into a war based on lies that we have an illegal occupation we need to leave Iraq and all of this public relations

belies the fact that Iraq continues to be a dangerous place because of our occupation. Yesterday the New York Times had a story where journalists described the danger of covering Iraq. And they talked about how they can't even go and cover places how their sources are in trouble how they can't trust their sources. We're in a situation where we have to get out of Iraq and I'm the one candidate who is dedicated to a plan to get us out of there and frankly I'm the only Democrat running who's been right about Iraq all along. And so. Well Barack Obama also said that he is against the war in don't 2. Well let's let's look at that a moment. Senator Obama claimed that he opposed the war. You know from the beginning when he got to the Senate he voted each and every time to fund the war and I don't know what's worse with Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton's position which is to vote for the war and John Edwards who vote for the war and then vote to fund the war or to or to say that you're against the war and then vote to fund the war. And so Senator Obama who claims that he was opposed to the war has a

record that is the same as Senator Clinton when it comes to funding the war. And so I have been unambiguous about this. I've given hundreds of speeches not just one speech before the war hundreds of speeches on the floor of the house challenging this administration's policy saying why it's important for us to take a new direction and describing that direction. To me this isn't a this isn't politics this is about what's right for our nation. And I've done what's right for our nation and people want leadership that now that was just right from the beginning but showed the maturity the judgment and the leadership all along the path the United States should take. Well I'm ready to fit that bill. The arguments for funding the war were that you can't leave the troops high and dry. Fake phony arguments designed to keep the war going. You want to support the troops you bring them home. And these candidates who have who have perpetuated that including by the way are Democratic leaders who promised the American people if you vote Democrat give us control of the House and the Senate will get out of Iraq soon as they took office they said we're going to keep funding the war to support our troops. Balderdash. We

have an obligation to the troops to bring them home to bring this war to an end to have an international security and peacekeeping force that moves in as our troops leave. We can stabilize Iraq and be out of there at the same time and I'm the only one running for president who is calling who has the credibility on this issue and who's calling for America to get out of Iraq and to get out now. And three months later after taking the oath of office I'll have our troops home. They have said that they have tried but they keep bumping up into Republican opposition and President Bush is a phony again and it's time that somebody called it what it is. Here's what you do. You go to President Bush and you say we're just not going to give you a bill. If there's no vote there's no the money is not there. The president has the money right now to bring the troops home. And if we wanted to end the war we just would not offer a bill and tell the president that he has to use the money he has now to bring the troops home and force him to move towards an international security and peacekeeping organization to defend or secure Iraq. But the Democratic leadership would prefer to go through this Gandy

dance about how oh gee we just don't have the votes. So the war keeps going under that weren't good enough. But what would you have to have 435 Democrats in the House to end the war. I mean please. The Democrats made a commitment to end the war we took over the house. We should be doing it. And we don't need a vote to do it just tell the president we're not going to give him any money. I have another question about Iraq itself beyond the Congressional discussion of it. If the U.S. were to begin pulling out troops quickly how likely do you think Congressman it is that security in Iraq would deteriorate again the Iraqi people could face a civil war or even a genocide. This is a scenario that not just Republicans paint neutral analysts worry about those who call those neutral analyst haven't read my plan which is that you can secure Iraq and the U.S. believes at the same time it's a matter of fact if you understand that the occupation is fueling the insurgency then you know that only the U.S. leaving Iraq can set the stage for Iraq being secure. But as we

leave we have to have an international security and peacekeeping force that moves in. Now how do you do that. Right now we are not going to get an album that was going to be my question. How do you do that. Because we're occupying. But when you indicate you are ready to end the occupation then you go to Syria to Iran and the nations in the region and put together a security and peacekeeping force that would move it as we leave. Now obviously we have to open up diplomatic relations with Iran. Obviously we have to have stronger diplomatic relations with Syria. I'm clearly talking about a shift in policy in the region. And again I'll state it every other one of these Democrats has been wrong in their choices that they've made about this region and I'm the one candidate who is right from the start and is ready to take this country in a direction to bring our troops home and stabilize Iraq. I have two more follow ups for you on that Congressman Kucinich and then we've got to pull back a line so we'll go to them again the exchange number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. You're listening to the exchange on HPR. It is now 19. Good morning. Support for New Hampshire Public Radio comes from our

members and from Doucette survey serving professional and surveying and mapping needs in New Hampshire Maine Massachusetts and Vermont. Information at D.O. you surveyed on gone from Cambridge trons company of New Hampshire where there is more to managing a wealth than simply managing your investments. Offices in Concord and Exeter online at Cambridge Trost on Cong and Comolli office products Conroy stands behind its quality Konica copiers printers and faxes and supports New Hampshire Public Radio 8 8 9 1 6 6 5. More with Ohio Congressman and Democratic presidential hopeful Dennis Kucinich on the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. At 10:00 on the Diane Rehm Show ongoing signs of trouble in the U.S. economy and what some believe should be done to avert a recession. This is an HPR. This is the exchange on Laura Conaway. Today an exchange We're talking with Ohio Congressman and Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich about his second campaign for the White House.

We're taking your calls at 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 and your e-mails at exchange and H-P York congressman. Two very quick follow ups for you please on Iraq and then we will go to our callers. You mentioned as the U.S. pulls out the U.S. could help secure Iraq by inviting other countries to put in a force their security force in the region. And you mentioned Syria and Iran. Now you know as well as I do they have not always been very positive actors in the Middle East trying to take over the Lebanese government funding terrorist groups so why would we trust them to do the right thing in Iraq. Well look we know that the United States government actually encouraged Israel to attack southern Lebanon in kind of a proxy war against Iran. I'm saying that we did not know that. Well then check it out. I'm saying that it is important for the United States to engage Iran stop the aggression aggressive intent towards Iran get Iran to work to cooperate to help stabilize instead of any efforts that may be being made and very few of

those have been documented that assert that Iran's been working to destabilize things in Iraq. That may be being made against Iraq. We need to bring in Iran. We need to bring in Syria. We need to stop any aggression out there we need to take a new direction and I'm the one candidate running for president has consistently indicated that it's important to engage Iran in discussions that it's wrong for us to play in a war against Iran. It's actually a war crime to prepare to drop 30000 pound bombs bunker busters nuclear research labs which is really the plan of this administration. It is a war crime right now. We are we have to engage this country in discussions. Every nation in the region is being destabilized by our actions. Do you think the Iraqis want Iran and Syria playing a role in their future. They want stability in Iraq. Iran is not not as not as Iran and Syria separately but as part of an international security and peacekeeping force. We have to shift the direction of their of their

position in the region. But the United States has had its policy all wrong and our policy and dangers is real. You talk about a strike against Iran that endangers Israel and endangers our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq and it sets us once again in a position where we're less secure as a nation. Now I want America to be secure and our policies has made it even made us less secure. And I've been the one person right from the beginning has pointed towards a path of being able to settle differences without war. The war against Iraq was wrong. A war against Iran would be wrong and I'm the only one running for president has any credibility on this. To say that if the US public is still sour on Iraq as we're told in the media why aren't voters flocking to your campaign. Congressman Kucinich given this consistent and longtime opposition to the war because because you know number one or number two because so much of a of a presidential campaign occurs in a fog where you have candidates who who like to pretend

that they're for getting out of Iraq. They talk about a withdrawal. What they're talking about 2013 Senators Clinton Obama and Edwards are a prime example. Now that 2013 in fairness is not. We'll have this ginormous presence in Iraq but there may be some troops there protecting the embassy and so Laura in fairness if you keep troops in an embassy troops are counterinsurgency and troops would be involved in training the Iraqis that is the formula that got us into the war against Vietnam. And so I'm saying that it is wrongheaded that that and you would you've confirmed is that Senators Clinton Obama and Edwards are talking about continuing to stay in Iraq and I'm saying no we must get out of there in 90 days from the time that I take office. We'll be out of there. The people who are looking for a Democratic version of the war as compared to the Republican version of the war who protects the embassy I'm sorry to get so picky detail always of you but close to the embassy close the embassy. Why. Because because we we put an embassy there as an occupying army. That's why we weren't invited and we forced our way and that embassy is the size of Vatican City. You think

we intend to leave this Iraq. We don't. But under a President Kucinich will be out of Iraq. Iraq will be stabilized and will lead towards a new era of peace in the region with an American government that isn't on the on an aggressive A10 intent and will work with the world community to stabilize the region and to affirm the covenants of international law. Congressman let's go to our callers again the exchange number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 2. Temple first Dan is on the you're welcome Dan. You're on the air with Congressman Kucinich. Thank you. Thank goodness. Dennis Kucinich running for president. It looks to me like he is the only true Democrat. The others remind me a lot of Lyndon Johnson during Vietnam. I don't see any real plans to get out of the mess of Iraq. Everything we've done there is wrong from the beginning. And I was wondering if Dennis might comment on the big money elite

and how they are controlling the polls and the candidacy of all the other candidates except for himself and Ron Paul from what I can see. OK Dan thanks for the call. You know there's no question who's making money off of this war oil companies and arms manufacturers. Now you know I believe that we have to take a new direction with respect to our energy policy. I advocate a carbon free and nuclear free energy policy. I also believe that we have to end war as an instrument of policy and the standard of our campaign is strength through peace. And so I'm determined to take that new direction. Now these these other candidates are arguing with each other about who's getting funded from whom. I mean John Edwards claims that Hillary Clinton is taking money from Washington lobbyists. But John Edwards is taking money from Wall Street hedge funds. I don't know which is worse. And so what I'm talking about is reclaiming our government. One idea I have long about a way to do that is that we need to

have a constitutional amendment that would provide for public financing only of our. You can't take private money right. I mean Buckley versus Valeo actually open the door for money is free speech private money involved in elections and actually private money private control of the political process. Public money public control of the political process the 1976 Supreme Court that said we need it we need a new we need a new approach and I advocate a constitutional amendment to do it. So you would have to change the Constitution to do it. Right but when you look at the appeal because of the free speech absolutely when you look at that how we came close to creating a change with equal rights amendment years ago how people got involved. I think there's even more awareness across the country as with this caller of the corrupting influence of money in our political process. Let me say this to people who are running they're all good people. But our system is corrupt it's being undermined by these interest groups. And so if we're going to help good people do good work change the system as far as where it's financed. Let's go next to Dover and Mackell is on the air. Go ahead.

Hi. This is Michaela. I wanted to make two comments in the first of those is that Brooke Gladstone from NYC is on the media has been talking quite a bit. She'll be in Concord next week quite a bit about how polling in the discussion of pooling on the air it's getting really it's not really helpful discussion of who should be president. It's not really addressing any of the issues. I know Senator Kucinich you mentioned that earlier on in the interview I also wanted to say that I think there's a kind of sickness in our democracy and part of that sickness is speculation on who's going to win before all of the issues. All right Kelly thanks for the call. I think it's a good call. I'd like to turn the tables. Laura why did you mention polling at the beginning of the interview because I want to say I've done it with everybody. OK. In fairness I've started all these candidate in here why do they with. But let me finish with a broad look at their campaign and where it seems to be standing now.

Clearly you don't like that your callers don't like it. No. But as somebody called. I just wondered you know in terms of the media you know maybe you could explain why you think that's important to discuss poll. Well and in fact on Monday and I want to let McKayla know this too. On Monday we're aware of you know the problems with polling and how a lot of people really don't like it. And on Monday we are going to be looking more closely at that. So Michaela I appreciate the call. And Congressman other thoughts from you too. So I think that it's good to know that we have a conversation or it's great. Thank you McKayla. Let's go to Manchester next. Mary is on the exchange. I'm sorry go ahead. Hi good morning. I know a lot of political pundits anyway say that impeaching Bush and Cheney justice will never happen. And I believe it should happen. I believe even more so since I just saw the movie. I think it's a newly released movie called no way out. And I see Bush Cheney Rumsfeld Wolfowitz and

Bremer as a war criminal. So I'm wondering why Dennis Kucinich thinks it is possible. Thanks Mary. I think it's really important to be able to save this constitution. You know I think everyone listening if you've been watching the developments in Washington you have to be concerned that our Constitution is being shredded and that Congress has no right not to accept responsibility to be a co-equal branch of government to hold this administration accountable. Laura one of the things that I'm concerned about is that if if the leaders of our Congress take impeachment off the table we are told they did. But but as they have they have given this president carte blanche. They have essentially made him into a monarch who is above any kind of accountability. And I think that is very dangerous to a democracy. Our government was structured in a way so that we would have a balance of power and a co-equal branch of government accountability

and all those principles are being discarded by a Democratic leadership which will not hold the vice president or the president accountable for taking us into a war based on lies. Could you say that the voters held Mr. Bush accountable by sending Democrats to Congress in 0 6. You could say the Democrats running on a platform to end the war. Need to keep faith with the American people and end that war. In addition to that the ongoing evidence makes it abundantly clear that the vice president lied repeatedly to take us to try to create the justification for the war. He has to have responsibility for that. I have one more question on this and this is from a purely political standpoint congressman. This is about impeachment again. Even some liberal columnists say hey Dennis Kucinich you're barking up the wrong tree. One in the Chicago Tribune said no to protesters Bush presidency soon to be a thing of the past let it go. Here's another one. Congress by Michael Tomasky of the American Prospect a progressive magazine. It says he says impeachment is not merely a bad idea but the single worst course of action Democrats

could possibly undertake. The only thing they could do that might in one stroke convert Bush from the figure of contempt and mockery he is now into one vague sympathy. So in other words you do this and you're really harming the Democrats what he calls otherwise excellent chances for winning congressional seats and the White House in 2008. From a pure political standpoint what do you think about that that impeachment is just a bad idea. My responsibility to my country is above that of my responsibility to my party and for those who are the pundits who look at this. They don't have the responsibility that I have. I took an oath to protect the Constitution as well. Our Constitution is being shredded in tatters as a result of this administration's refusal to adhere to international law and refusal to tell the truth about what's happened in Iraq. And I'm saying they have to be held accountable you know. To me this is very clear. This is what America is supposed to be about the rule of law and truth. And that's not what we're about right

now. And the Congress has a responsibility to impeach this vice president and I'm preparing articles with respect to the president as well. There must be accountability. Think about this we're lowering the bar for future presidents. If someone cannot be impeached for sending us into a war based on lies then what offense would be necessary in order for someone to meet the test of a high crime. I think that the test has already been met in Congress. It's mandatory that Congress take this up. It's not optional. Or else what we're doing is we're essentially abolishing our own power as the people's house and we don't have a right to do that sending us to war based on lies and I know that you and others have said that there was a concern at the time that Saddam Hussein was not letting inspectors go in and that he might be holding something nasty that could hurt us. Well excuse me it was very clear that there was a point at which the inspections were being used for surveillance and not for inspection. And so the preconditions were made to cause him to reject it. At the same time we knew from the inspections that

95 percent of what was said to be there was gone and that the other 5 percent was destroyed in the in the bombings that took place previously. So look there is no question that there were no weapons of mass destruction. Anyone who maintains that right now everybody pretty much says they were. But you know what but the why. There was a fear that there might be one. But but when you're president of the United States or vice president of the United States you can't act upon fear you must act upon facts. They had facts to the contrary and they lied and they have to be held accountable. And I'm the one person running for president who's saying that the standard of the office ought to be the highest with respect to morality adherence to the law and justice. Again the phone number here in the exchange is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 and our guest is Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich. He's a Democratic presidential candidate. He's running again he ran for the first time in the New Hampshire primary in 0 4. You can ask your questions at 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or

e-mail exchange at and HPR dot org. Let's go next to Dana. She is calling from Hillsboro. Hi Dana go ahead. Hi Mr. Gissin it is an honor to be speaking with you. My question is this time in the discussion regarding your plans to get out of Iraq and also discussion about abuse of presidential powers by the current administration. If your plan is to take effect what kind of support would you be looking for from the Senate and also how would your actions be impacted by that support or not support then. Thanks a lot. Well there's two there's two scenarios one. What Congress can do now we can tell the president no more money. The war is over he has to put together a peacekeeping plan we force him into it. The other one is your way to a new president takes office. And I'm saying within 90 days from the time of taking office I'll have our troops on the way home because I'll work to establish a parallel process of international peacekeepers and security

and security forces now in order to do that. You can do that without without the participation of Congress. I don't need Congress as president I don't need Congress's approval to bring the troops home. I can bring the troops home. Congress can't keep the troops there. This is what it means to be commander in chief. And so I would I would enlist certainly the support of Congress for this new direction. And I think that most people in Congress would be relieved to have a president who took a stand and said we're going to bring our troops home and have a plan to stabilize Iraq as our troops leave. We're not going to stay. Make it clear I mean I'll make this clear as president. I'm not going to keep our troops there. They're coming home. These other candidates. Clinton Edwards and Obama are talking about our troops staying there. I'm not. What if you said I'm bringing the troops home. And you couldn't put together that international force to keep Iraq secure. Well I've talked to dozens of ambassadors in the does that leave the Iraqis open in I. I've talked to dozens of ambassadors in approximate Andy in the fire region and every country is concerned about the

destabilization that the continuation of the Iraq war causes. They're also concerned that the American occupation fuels the insurgency. So there is an interest in participating but only if the U.S. makes the first move. We can't get help if we stay there. Now those who want us to stay there have to keep in mind we're borrowing money from China to continue this war in terms of going into debt. We are going deep into debt over this war. We're losing more and more troops more innocent Iraqis are being killed. I'm talking about by the way a peacekeeping plan that includes reconciliation between the Shiites Sunnis and Kurds. An honest reconstruction program where these mercenaries and corrupt contractors have to leave Iraq and a program of reparations where we recognize one million at least one million innocent Iraqis have died in this war. If we're ever going to be secure as a nation we need a president who's compassionate and open hearted and knows that the breach has to be repaired and that not only monetary but other means have to be used to try to console and repair the relationship with the Iraqi people.

Let's take another one this is Andrea in Portsmouth. Go ahead Andrew. You're on the air. Thank you so much for coming on this program I really appreciate your ideas. I do want to say though that my concern is that as far as your visibility in New Hampshire and in my family and I are pretty much political junkies here I'm not really relevant with New Hampshire voters and I wanted to know physically what you were thinking. You try to get your message out in such a way that it would connect with people. I mean I listened to you and your ideas are truly wonderful and brilliant actually. Andrew I can't cut you off there because we're entering into a break. Congressman Kucinich we'll pick up with Andrea's question after the break and take a lot more of your calls. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7.

You're listening to the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. This is New Hampshire Public Radio whereas a more comes from you our members and from harvest capital of Concord. Retirement investment specialist committed to helping New-England families achieve life goals. Information at harvest c.a.p Kong and the parish players of that for Vermont presenting Arthur Miller is classic A view from the bridge through December 9th information parish players daughter. Good morning it's nine thirty nine and this is New Hampshire Public Radio. Whether it's an old beater that's been sitting on blocks in your front yard for years or the family car you've been looking to upgrade. Put it to good use by donating it to HPR. We'll arrange to pick up and take care of the paperwork. You'll get to deduct the value of the car in your 0 7 tax return and you'll be supporting the station you've tuned into during so many commutes. Call 8 7 7 3 9 3 and HPR by December 30 first to claim the

deduction for 2007. Or visit us at an HP Yarg. This is the exchange I'm Laura Conaway tomorrow on the exchange our twenty five and twenty five series continues with Gary Hirshberg CEO of Stonyfield Farm yogurt and an organic food pioneer. E-mail us your questions for Mr. Hirschberg at HP in advance and join us tomorrow morning at 9:00. Today we're talking with Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich he's a Democratic presidential candidate. We're talking about a wide variety of topics. As Congressman Kucinich makes his second bid for the White House the number here in the exchange is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And Congressman before the break we heard from Andrea in Portsmouth she says you know she likes what you have to say but she is not seeing you resonate with New Hampshire voters. Well she said two things. She likes hearing what I have to say and as more people in New Hampshire hear what I have to say. They're liking it as well.

Full employment economy jobs are all health care for all education for all. Get out of Iraq a new role for American a world strength through peace new environmental policies that address the issue of global warming as people hear these town hall meetings. I'm getting great response. And you know we have a nine day swing through New Hampshire that's ending today. And the way you connect with people is to go see them. And we're doing that. Andrea thanks very much. And I look forward to seeing you in Portsmouth. All right Andrea thanks a lot for the call. Again our number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. I have an e-mail here. And unfortunate the person did not give their name just a bad e-mail address belly penny. So we'll take that for what it is. But he says despite his good ideas one reason the congressman has had some trouble bringing people into his camp is that he has a very confrontational tone even with those who help him seek to express his ideas. It's not only about issues issues issues but it's also about being open available and calm. He says people are not attracted to people who are perpetually irritated or angry.

Let you think about this Congressman. You know hello I love you. You know I don't I don't I'm I'm open to criticism but I think that there's times when you tell the truth that it does irritate people and you can tell the truth in a soft voice which is always preferable. And I think thank him for communicating with us. But you know I can say that in this campaign being the only one who consistently challenge the war and the only one he's standing for not for profit health care system those two issues alone cause a lot of consternation among people. Do you feel angry or this time than last time in 0 4. I'm not angry Well more frustrated. No I'm not frustrated. I'm a happy guy. Welcome go back to our callers. Let's go to melody. She's waiting in Handcock. Melody thanks for hanging on there. Go ahead.

Oh thank you. You know what this is the perfect moment because I started reading Dennis's words before the last campaign. And I made 50 copies and sent them around to friends who are all leaders in the community. I don't think this is angry. I really admire his kindness his original voice. I like hearing a person's true thoughts and I missed that. Other politicians have a question for the congressman melody. I want to know if he gets elected how he'll engage as many people as possible to help. Because I really think all of the programs he's talking about are worthwhile and good. But we're going to need just as many courageous people to work. And I don't want him to give up if he misses it this time. Give up in terms of run for president again or just keep up with the issues for our government and our our whole personality is a world team player is so much what we need.

OK. Many thanks for the call. Yeah go ahead Congressman. Well you know this election's never been about me it's about the people in New Hampshire it's about the people of New Hampshire their aspirations for housing for jobs for health care for a fair fair energy prices for education for their children for retirement security. And so in order to be a successful president I'll take a page out of Franklin Roosevelt when he was campaigning in 1932. He called out to the American people you give me a Congress I can work with I'll give you a new deal and the New Deal was actually created not only by FDR but by the people of the United States who working with FDR created the condition for the Congress to pass his initiatives. And so I will go to the people and say Give me a Congress that will give you a not for profit health care system. Give me a Congress that will provide that we can have college for our children in any public college university tuition free. Give me a Congress that will give you a full employment economy to rebuild America's infrastructure to have a new approach to our energy infrastructure with

wind and solar micro technologies introduced into our homes. Give me a Congress that will take us in a direction of strength through peace. I mean so I realize that this isn't about one person. This is about the American people and engaging their concerns and calling forward their passions and their commitments. And that's the way we take a new direction. How do you pay for all those broad programs that you talk about are the American people willing to put up with possibly higher taxes. No I'm not talking about new taxes. We're already paying for a universal standard of health care we're just not getting it because one out of every three dollars goes for the for profit system. You take the $700 billion a year that goes to the for profit system you put it into not for profit and suddenly we have enough money to cover everything for everyone with no more premiums co-pays and deductibles. I'm the only candidate running for president who says it's time to end the for profit system. There's a fake debate going on between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama about which form of a for profit health care system D-1. Either way you're stuck with higher premiums co-pays and deductibles. I'm

talking about a new approach. I'm also talking about a new approach to education. Government would spend the money into circulation why borrowed from banks at an interest when we know in terms of paying for college. Absolutely. Every young person should have a chance to go to college tuition free a public college university in exchange for two years of service to our country. You know either they're working in hospitals or are as tutors or mentors or environmental projects or in the military would give two years back. This way we prime the pump of our economy we enhance our children's ability to be productive citizens. We create a condition where we have a better educated public. And America is more confident in its standing in the world. I mean this is a way that we start to move America in a new direction. Those are those are just into areas and a jobs program again just like during the Depression you prime the pump of the economy put people back to work. Everyone is able to work and have a job. And you say that you can do all this congressman without raising any new taxes absolutely no new taxes no taxes you can do this you can it's a change it's a change in economic

policy. Instead of letting the banks run the country the government spends the money into circulation and we can do that and it's time that we started to realize that the only way that we're going to dig out of the hole that we're in is to start taking care of people's basic needs for jobs for health care and education. And when you do that you have a country that is more stable that's real security. That's the real way to protect America. How do you address the broad feeling Congressman Moore heard on the Republican side that Americans like a privately run economy they don't want to be sweetened they like market incentives and this sort of energetic capitalism that we have less fettered by government intrusion. I know there's 47 million 47 million Americans don't have any health care. I don't know what they say about it. There's another 50 million Americans who are under insured. We see what's happened with the unregulated economy with hedge funds driving up the cost of of well with hedge funds having taken in investments that proved to be unsecured and causing a kind of a collapse on Wall

Street with people losing their homes because the regulators walked off the beat. I mean I'm talking about an American government which plays a constructive role in the life of people. You know I'm opposed to the privatization of Social Security privatization of the post office or the privatization of our energy policies or the privatization of the Department of Defense. Remember I saved the electric system in Cleveland years ago. I understand wanting to be privatized and you said no and you must often be kind of right. But I took a position that 15 years later was allocated guaranteed that the people of Cleveland save hundreds of millions of dollars so I understand that government has a purpose in people's life and I'm not going to see it privatized. I'm the one Democrat who can be counted on to take a stand against the auctioning off of the people's government. Let's go back to the phones again 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 is the number. The guest today in the exchange. Democratic presidential candidate and Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich It's our second interview with Congressman Kucinich this election cycle. Let's go to Mass. Richard's on the air. Welcome. Richard go ahead.

Yes thank you. Hello again Dennis. Just fantastic on everything you're saying. So rational about our outlook in the world and in relation to other countries but we're in a minority I think that's. Most Americans are really living in a bubble. They don't really know what Basically what's going on. And most of the rest of the world. And and I find it very now with the middle sort of a certain And you know we've had 150 bases all over the world. And I wish we could really talk about. We want to be a global empire and in this world. Or do we want to just be the United States of America and not try to impose our way and try to be united states of the world. So Richard your question for Dennis Kucinich is what. Well I just want him. I mean I don't think he has a. Even if he got nominated I don't think the American people would vote for somebody like Donna if unfortunately they didn't vote for

McGovern. And you know so I just don't think that the country is not ready. Not not the country isn't as liberal as you might like. Congressman Kucinich Well it's not about liberal or conservative it's about right or wrong and it's about the economic opportunities for all Americans I think Americans are ready for a full employment economy for jobs or for health care for all for education for all. I think they're ready for the end of NAFTA and getting out of the WTO and trade that's based on workers rights human rights environmental quality principles. I think they're ready for strength through peace. I think they're ready for someone who's going to address the issue of severe climate change and someone who will stop nuclear weapons proliferation. So yes I think the country is ready for me and I'm the mainstream candidate remember I was the one who opposed the war from the start. I proved to be right right from the beginning. People can look at my stance and see that I've never equivocated. I've been there right from the beginning on all these issues that are important to the American people. And so for health care for all. No other candidate is standing for a not for profit system. I think the American people are ready for that. So we have to have confidence in the strength

of our own convictions and we have to believe as Emerson once wrote trust myself every heart vibrates to that iron string. If Americans are ready for single payer universal health care why are most Democratic candidates and all the Republican candidates saying this is a bad idea. Hillary Clinton the number two recipient according to Michael Moore of money from insurance company interests. You know you get people who are locked into an approach that says there's no other way but private insurance and frankly why is it that we have 47 million Americans who don't have any health insurance they can't afford it. Why is half that why or have two bankruptcies in the United States connected directly to people not being able to pay hospital bills because insurance companies make money not providing health care. They keep raising the premiums the co-pays and deductibles. You know what every other industrialized nation in the world sees health care is a basic right in our society. Only in the United States is is it a privilege based on ability to pay. I'm the one candidate for president who's ready to reclaim our democracy and make America consistent with the preamble of

the Constitution which says a founding foundational purpose of government should be to promote the common welfare. The Republican candidates for the general welfare say that under a universal healthcare system like in other industrialized nations the quality goes down and that you've got to wait in line you got to wait three months for your you know your chemotherapy and so forth. Forty seven million Americans don't have any coverage at all 50 million Americans. Maybe we should that cost. We already have rationing in Canada. Laura We already have rationing based on ability to pay. I'm saying that that's not American we should take care of our people. Health care shouldn't be based on ability to pay it should be a basic right in a democratic society and we'll protect the businesses that the Republicans are concerned about and the industries that are in trouble because they can't meet their health care expenses. So I'm looking at a new direction and frankly there's only one Democratic candidate who's really talking about basic democratic principles. Thanks for the call Richard. We'll take one more. This is Heather in Glen New Hampshire.

Welcome Heather. Go ahead you're on the air with Congressman Kucinich. Good morning Congressman thanks for taking my call. My question for you concerns the discrepancy that may be generally unaddressed between American policies towards food and genetically modified organisms and how different our policies could be from other industrialized countries. Recognize the danger in these very end research and unproven to be very widely read in our market. Heather thanks for the call. I'm the one person in government who recognize exactly what you recognize. And years ago after hearing a report on NPR about how monarch butterflies feeding on the pollen of genetically engineered corn were experiencing either a fatality or severely injured and so that got me into looking at this issue and it's true the food and drug administration in 1990 to before

you know before the administration left office declared that genetically modified organisms were the functional equivalent of conventional food they did that without safety testing without testing for antibiotic resistance functional characteristics. And I say that the people of the United States are largely unaware of the degree to which our food supply has been transformed by Monsanto and those interests that are taking us into a kind of a brave new world of biotech combined with agriculture. So as president of the United States I will go back to the issue of safety testing. You know we can't be in a position as we were in with the tobacco industry years ago where everyone said don't worry about this and later on we find about the human health effects of the use of tobacco. So I want to make sure the American people can be confident in their food supply and to make sure that the food that we're consuming is safe. Now if we are what we eat then we certainly should be careful about what what's the food we consume is being made so we'll know what we are to become.

Real quick follow up to Heather and thank you for the call she was from Glen which as you know is up north. I have another e-mail here from let's see from Andy in Jackson New Hampshire. He says Congressman I noticed your campaign offices are all located in southern NH with none mentioned in northern New Hampshire. Are you planning on having a presence up here or at least when will you be visiting. Thank you. Well I was in Jackson a couple days ago we had a town hall meeting and packed that. That little town hall up there on a hill it's pretty it's a lovely community. And we are working in Jackson the woman who is my state coordinator Susan Bruce is from Jackson so Jackson is on my mind. All right. And one last question for you Congressman. Other candidates such as Connecticut Senator Chris Dodd have complained bitterly about their treatment by the media outlets who have sponsored the debates. You know the way the candidates who aren't as high in those polls that I mentioned before get kind of shunted to the side rarely ask questions. How do you feel about being consistently put on the far end of the debating stage and how do you adapt to this reality and try and get a word in

edgewise. Well I don't need as much time as the others you know when these other candidates keep changing their positions they need 15 minutes I only need five I can get my message across in few words. Congressman thank you very much. I sure appreciate your time. KUCINICH that you ass. Come on New Hampshire. Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich again a Democratic presidential candidate in his second bid for the White House he last ran in New Hampshire in 2004. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio friendly. The engineer engineers Dan COLGAN our internist Steve Jordan. The music was composed by Bob Lord the exchanges executive producer is Keith shields and I'm Laura. In