The Exchange; Interview with Mitt Romney

From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Laura Conaway and this is the exchange. Former Massachusetts governor and Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney finds himself in an increasingly tight race in New Hampshire's presidential primary since he jumped into the campaign back in February. A good number of granite state Republicans were drawn to his effective leadership in business and in politics and in the 2002 Olympic Games. But Romney's reputation as a politician whose views on issues changed depending on his audience has been a trouble spot for him as well as a discomfort some Americans feel about his Mormon faith. Today in exchange Mitt Romney is here to take your questions. The exchange number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 is the number. E-mail is or Welcome to the address exchange at HPR.

Oregon Governor Romney Merry Christmas and thanks for coming on so close to the holiday. We sure appreciate it. Thanks Laura. Merry Christmas to you. It's been a wonderful holiday so far. Good to have you here. And I wanted to start off with a little bit of biographical information for you before we dig into all the hard stuff that we need to talk about and that is that when many Americans hear your name they might think Massachusetts governor might think savior of the Olympics but what a lot of people don't know is you have a very deep political resume your dad George Romney Michigan governor presidential candidate. There's a story about Ike coming to have dinner at your house. I want to learn Governor Romney from watching your own father's political career as you apply it to your presidential race now. Well my dad spent his life in business as I did 56 years he was in the business world. And so that's really what I grew up with and then I saw at some point in his life he said you know I think I can make a difference for the country. And first of course for his state the state of Michigan they were losing jobs losing automobile manufacturers and he thought he could go in and make things turnaround around. I think he was able to make a real contribution.

But he he got in not as a career but instead to make a difference I had a friend in New York say to me one day you know what concerns me about America today is that politics has become a profession not a duty. And for my dad politics was a duty. It was out of a sense of obligation a concern for his country for his family that he got involved and so it was not for him a personal thing. He didn't he didn't anguish over whether he was going to win or lose an election. He went out there talked about the things he believed in. He was successful in his races for governor was not successful in beating Richard Nixon in the Republican primary. And he didn't look back and worry about that and wring his hands unsteady. He just went forward and I think I think if you if you look at public service as exactly that service of the public it gives you a much better perspective on what you ought to do and how you could leave your political life. Now what happened in that I think it was 19 16. Yeah. What happened in the primary. Well he did quite well in the in the early days and had great support

but he became convinced that his that we as a nation had been misled about Vietnam that the generals had lied to us that that Lyndon Johnson had lied to us and he said quite famously he said he said I was over in Vietnam got a real brainwashing from the generals over there. America has gotten a brainwashing Now that's pretty strong language and the term brainwashing was was used to make fun of him and it turned out pretty much. Public support against him and he dropped out of the race. Now how do you apply that. I have to ask this to Iraq today I mean you know there were no weapons of mass destruction I don't apply it to Iraq. I wasn't ready to you know kill us as we were told. Well I think everybody virtually everybody agrees on the failure failures failures rather in Iraq and and the shortcomings in our management of the conflict after the collapse of Saddam Hussein. And so now we face a circumstance where we say what should we do going forward. And there's some there's some gap between

Republicans and Democrats on this Republican saying we're making progress. Don't pull out if it's going to leave a safe haven for al Qaeda or Hezbollah or the like. Democrats like Barack Obama say you know just get out. Period. And I think that's. Well obviously I think that's the wrong approach. But were we brainwashed. Governor Romney No certainly not. Do you think that they had WMD. Sorry not brainwash. No but. But did we have faulty intelligence information. And on the basis of that faulty information Congress and the president came together and by the way sort of the United Nations I mean many many people looked at the same the same kind of information and concluded as we did that this was a regime that had the potential for weapons of mass destruction. All right. Well given our limited time I'm going to close Iraq out of that. But if you want to call and ask questions about Iraq or many other issues again you can call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 I'm Laura Conaway. This is the exchange on HPR and our

guest today is Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney. Again the number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 emails are welcome. Keep them short exchange and HPR dot org. Governor Romney I want to just start off with the biggest critique that I always read about your presidential campaign and that is if you're the GOP nominee Democrats are going to get out a pair of flip flops. They'll use that campaign slogan they'll tell voters you can't be trusted because you've changed your position on key issues like abortion. How will you if you're the nominee respond convincingly enough so that you don't cast your party the White House well certainly my opponents in this race have worked very hard to push that image and some have picked it up some of the media picked that up and gone with it. But the truth is that you can look at my record you can look at what I did as governor and I served as governor for four years. People in New Hampshire have had a good chance to look across the border and say OK what did he do well what didn't he do so well and my record as governor. I'm happy to stand on that record and the

positions I took as governor are the positions I have in this campaign. And so if you go back to 1994 and say gosh when you first get into politics you said this to Ted Kennedy. Those things are being in my view taken out of context. And in some ways much more made of them than than that I think is is appropriate given my record. But take a look at my record and I think that'll give you the confidence that that you'd need to see that I can be trusted with regards to family issues with regards to life with regards to taxation and spending. I got health care for all of our citizens along with the Democrats. We worked together Republican and Democrat made a real difference. So you've got a record to look at. And by virtue of that record you're going to be able to assess is this the kind of guy who ought to lead our nation. Well and I really do want to talk about health care but I got to ask you about abortion because I do have lots of e-mails on this and this comes up a lot. Here's an email from John in Peterborough governor it says it is difficult to ascertain the foundations of Romney's shifting

convictions. Many of us suspect his ideals are derived from polls. He was quoted last week in The Globe saying that he changed his stance from favoring a woman's right to choose in the 90s to opposing abortion today because he's learned more about the issue. I've heard you say that too. Does Romney believe that he has finished learning everything he needs to know. And if so how can he be certain that his current stances are the right ones and that he does not have more to learn. In other words could you change your mind again on this issue. You know well let's step back. If someone says you have nothing more to learn they probably ought to be retired. All right I'm sorry. You don't want to have somebody who doesn't doesn't think they could learn. As as life goes on and from experience and and with regards to abortion that is a position I took and changed when I was governor. That was years ago. Now I know it's 2004 2013 2005 2008. What made you change your mind cause that's a pretty fundamental shift. Well that's I'm happy to tell you it's been. I tell the story a lot. I really have. So you want to hear it again. OK we'll tell you when we

get our vote. Our listeners are 70000 listeners probably haven't heard from you before so well you know when I ran for office my view was that I personally opposed to abortion and I do but I felt that the government should stay out of the decision we'd let other people make their own mind up. Then I became governor and the bill was brought to my desk which if I signed would mean that I had participated in the if you will the destruction of human life. It was not related to stem cell research. It was you know it's a misnomer to call it stem cell research. It was in this case it was cloning embryos creating new embryos and then destroying them at 14 days. And I said I simply cannot be party to creating new human life and then destroying it. And so it was something that had been if you will theoretical let the government stay out of this became very personal and because now I was going to be putting my name on a bill that would actually determine matters of life and death.

And I simply could not come down on the side of death. And so I wrote an op ed piece in the Boston papers and said look I was wrong. I simply cannot separate my feelings for life from from being governor. And I will come down on the side of life. I vetoed that bill and consistently as governor came down on the side of life and was awarded by the Massachusetts Citizens for Life. Their leadership award and and I'm I'm not going to apologize for becoming pro-life. I can tell you this is the same course Ronald Reagan took and Henry Hyde and George Herbert Walker Bush. No one seems to have any difficulty by the way. If you go from pro-life to pro-choice that's seen as very normal and everybody accepts it willingly applauds it. If on the other hand you were effectively pro-choice as I was and you become pro-life then it's something which receives great scrutiny and attention particularly from the media that tends more often than not to be pro-choice.

But the truth of the matter is this is something I looked at with great attention and detail and concluded I simply could not come down except on the side of life stem cells and creating embryos to destroy life is different from you know a teenager who finds herself pregnant or a woman who finds out that she has a pregnancy where the baby has a horrible disease and may die. You know one or two months after being born so make the leap for us from that stem cell story that you tell to a position where you would like to restrict if not ban abortions. Well they do flow together which is do you believe in the sanctity of life and you believe that a civilized society should protect life or not. And in my view they are very much the same they flow from the same fountain which is that you respect life and if you come out of the side of life you're going to say I'm going to respect that and all of it's in all of it's stages. I do believe that abortion is not the right choice except in cases of rape and incest and when the life of the mother is at risk. So those are the three exceptions that you would carve out. Yeah. And Supreme Court justices last

question for you on this issue. Governor Romney will move on Supreme Court justices would that be very important for you that they hew to that line on abortion. Well I think we all recognize that no one can give a litmus test or a Supreme Court justice on a topic like this and then expect expected to be confirmed and the Senate. And so we will instead. I think on both sides of the aisle choose individuals based upon their judicial philosophy and then see where it leads them. Well and even when you try and figure out where they stand they usually don't tell you. That's true in some cases. I'm sure that's right. But it takes someone like Justice Roberts and Justice Alito you have two jurists who are the very type of jurist I would like to appoint to the Supreme Court people who are intelligent brilliant legal minds but who believe that their job is to follow the Constitution not create new law springing away from the constitution. We'll talk more after a short break. Move on from this topic and encourage your calls at 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 we'll talk a lot about health care and immigration coming up. And again take your

calls 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. More with Mitt Romney coming up after a short break. Support for New Hampshire Public Radio comes from our members and from the Mosiello group extending holiday greetings from over 500 real estate professionals proudly serving the residential commercial and relocation needs of New Hampshire's Southern Maine and Vermont and in my savings bank serving the people in needs of the Connecticut River Valley since 1899. Online at Masco my bank don't call. More with former Massachusetts governor and Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney on the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. Then again on the Diane Rehm Show an Irish writer presents his new collection of short stories about the bonds between mothers and sons. That's the Diane Rehm Show at 10 New Hampshire weather for this afternoon a mix of sunshine and clouds highs today mid-thirties to low 40s that

will be clouding up tonight chance of freezing rain and sleet after midnight tonight up teens to mid-twenties. This is an HPR. This is the exchange I'm Laura Conaway. Today we're talking with former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney a Republican about his run for the White House. And we invite your calls at 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 808 9 2 and HPR e-mails are welcome to the address exchange at HPR dot org. Governor Romney we have received just piles of e-mails and I want to thank everyone who e-mailed and let you know that I will try to get to as many as possible but may not be able to do that. Here's one on immigration. This is from Steven in Grantham. He says Mr. Romney I understand that anyone born in this country is granted US citizenship. The child's parents need not be U.S. citizens and they may even be here illegally. Would you support a constitutional amendment to stop this practice which Stephen says may have seemed appropriate 200 years ago but strikes me as absurd.

Well the real problem with this problem this issue of what's called anchor babies is that we have a policy that if a child is born in this country from illegal parents let's say we're happy to have it just to have come across the border or have overstayed their visa and they're here illegally that then then because the child is a U.S. citizen they're able to bring in other members of their family something known as chain migration. And we can stop chain migration without having to put in place an amendment to the Constitution that the process of amendment or the Constitution is an extraordinarily laborious and lengthy process. We can however quite immediately change the policy to say that if a child is born here of illegal parent or parents that that does not mean that they can then bring in all the rest of their family through chain migration. That's a policy we can change without having to change the Constitution. And I would propose changing that policy so that the chain migration problem does not continue to confront us.

But in terms of Steven's question no you would keep that. It's called the birthright. I don't. Well we'll take a look and see whether it continues to be an issue of significance. My view is if you stop the policy of chain migration you would effectively stop the practice of people coming across the border or overstayed their visa to have a child and not a legal parent to have a child here because they no longer have the benefit of child migration. It's a lot easier way to accomplish the same thing without trying to go through the amendment process. Well let's talk a little bit more about immigration Governor a dominant topic in the Republican race for sure and you've criticized the so-called sanctuary city policy of New York and others meaning communities that encourage illegal immigrants to come in you services and report crimes. Here's what former New York Mayor Ed Koch said about this policy and I want to ask you what you think about it. Koch said it hurts all city residents. I mean in New York in this case if there are some who live in the city who are educated in adequately protected from crime or untreated for illness could you just tell us how you feel about that broad philosophy that there is a reason for this so-called sanctuary city policy.

Well it's an absurd response on his part. Of course we treat people with care. Of course we welcome illegals to report crime. Of course we educate the children of illegals. All of those things are required by law. So what that is not something unusual what New York did that was unusual is they said in addition to those things which are required We're going to put in place a sanctuary city policy saying that city workers cannot report people that are here illegally will provide benefits to people who are here illegally. Those things are not required by federal law. Instead they created special welcome for illegals. Mayor Giuliani said For instance if you happened to be here in undocumented status that means if you're illegal we welcome you to New York. We will protect you in New York. That's very different than saying we're going to provide health care and we're going to provide education. By the way like every other city in America does that's required by law. So they went well beyond what is required by law and that is one of the features that draws people to this country. They hear

elected officials welcoming illegals to their cities and that's simply inconsistent with the rule of law. What we should do is say of course we follow our own laws. Of course we say to sanctuary cities we're going to cut back on funding to you from the federal government if you continue not to enforce federal law. Now did you go after the sanctuary cities as governor of Massachusetts because as I said they were half a dozen of them. The number keeps getting larger as time goes on. I don't think it was that large. But the answer is I did in power. Our state police to go anywhere in the state to enforce federal immigration laws. So I specifically applied for the federal government to train our state police and then authorize them to go anywhere including so-called sanctuary cities to enforce the federal law. Now that came right at the end of your term and then Deval Patrick overturned it. That came in May my term ended in December. I applied to the federal government in May and then Deval Patrick indeed overturned it. You can be sure that more liberal oriented folks with regards to illegal immigration are going

to change policies and and try and welcome illegal immigrants. You know it's a great touchstone issue. Do we believe that people should be able to come to this country any way they want and just get to stay here and then ultimately be able to live here the rest of their life or do we believe instead that people should apply and those at the front of the line for instance people who want to come here with skill and education people who want to get reunited with family members that they should come through first. Because frankly we can't take in as a nation the billion or so people who all want to come here. We're going to have to decide do we just let them fight their way in or do we have some say about following the rule of law. I follow I fall in the latter category. I believe we should follow the rule of law welcoming people here. I love legal immigration. It's great for our country. But the question is are we going to let legal immigrants come in first or are we going to let those who come across the border illegally come in first. That's the issue that we face. Let's go to the calls again 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Add in place

Dow was up first time. Thanks for calling in. Thank you. Good morning Governor Romney. Good morning. My question to you is it's very pointed as you know the race is heating up between I guess John McCain is doing quite well in New Hampshire and yes still ahead. How does your immigration record contrast with you. Well Senator McCain as you know was it was perhaps the leading author in the United States Senate for that compromise bill that came forward and it had a number of flaws but the particular flaw that I point to is that that that bill said that every illegal immigrant in this country some 12 million of them would all get to stay here permanently. And I said that is simply wrong to follow the rule of law. Those individuals should not be allowed to stay here permanently. That was a huge mistake. As governor I said no to driver's licenses for illegal aliens. I said no to in-state tuition breaks for illegal aliens. And as I just mentioned I authorized our state police to enforce the illegal action may force

immigration laws. And so very different records on this. I think Senator McCain continues to believe that once we secure the border we should let all of the illegal immigrants stay here. That in my opinion is simply unfair to the millions of people who are in line trying to come here legally. We spoke to Senator McCain last week. I think it was and he said no it would be more on a case by case basis seeing what each person's situation is some people might be forced to be sent back. Some people might be allowed to stay here. Reviewing your statements in his statements they actually did sound similar. There was an interview did I think with Tim Russert where you said they'd be a set point where people could apply for citizenship status. How is that different from Senator McCain's. It sounds very similar. Well Senator McCain was the author of a bill that said everybody who's come here illegally gets to stay you said they get to get in line for citizenship just like everybody else. Oh no no. They all get to stay permanently. That was the key. You see the senator is very quick to say yes but they have to get in line for citizenship and it may take them 13 years.

Yes but they all get to stay here permanently even if they never get citizenship. They're allowed to stay in the country forever. All of those who've come all 12 million of those who've come to the country illegally under his bill all got to stay in America for the rest of their life. That in my opinion is a form of amnesty is simply wrong. It violates the rule of law. My view is exactly opposite of that. My view is that those who've come here illegally should be able to get in line with everybody else but no special pathway no special deal no special privilege saying they're either ahead in the line or they all get to stay here permanently while they're waiting to get at the foot of the line. That's it. If you say to somebody OK get in line but you get to stay here the rest of your life. That's not really a line. So what do you do you send them all back all 12 million I'd say to some I a huge undertaking. No that's not what I said. It would have been if if that's the case but that's not what I said. Instead for all those individuals that are here illegally I would say Get in line. There's a

set period of time for you to either receive permanent residency status or citizenship if you get that within that period of time you can stay if you don't you go home and to be a lot of illegal aliens who would be going home after maybe a month or two months or some set period of time that they have to arrange their affairs and return home. My view is that we should replace the illegal immigrants that are here gradually and humanely with those who come here legally letting those who've been waiting in line come to this country first rather than saying that those that have come here illegally that they get to stay. But some people still are allowed to stay though as long as they apply no v v v. Everybody has to apply. It's not there's no one who's told. OK you get to stay here permanently for the rest of your life regardless of your status that that's that's the difference. Under Senator McCain's plan everybody who's come here illegally gets to stay here for the rest of their life. Under my plan people are given a set period of time by which time they have to return home arrange their

affairs and return home. They can get in line if they like to and apply just like everybody else but no special pathway. Let's move on. Governor Romney and go to Londonderry where Emily is on the air. Hi Emily thanks for calling in. Go ahead. Good morning. One issue that is most important to me is climate change and I've heard you speak on this issue several times. Well I disagree with you in some ways. I applaud your desire to work with international partners like India and China to create a global cap on carbon emissions. I think this international effort is a serious question of what needs to be done. I was wondering if you could spell out for me how you would go about doing that and having us take the lead on with the world. Emily thanks a lot. Well I do believe that we can work with other nations of the world to consider the widest array of options to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions. There are a number of different pathways to do so. Caps are one. And that's something which we're going to work out with other nations. I do believe it's essential that we

have nations like China and India and Brazil and Indonesia and other nations participating. What was wrong with the Kyoto Accord was that they did not participate and we had some of the largest actually the largest greenhouse gas emitter in the world is China. And of course it's growing dramatically its greenhouse gas emissions. And so any any answer that that excludes China is simply absurd. They don't call it America warming they call it global warming. And so we have to participate in a world effort to help reduce CO2 emissions. Now what can we do on our own. Well we can become energy independent on our own and develop sources of energy which are non greenhouse gas emitting clean burning coal liquid coal nuclear power all of our renewable resources and we can become far more efficient in our use of energy in our automobiles in our appliances in our homes in our businesses. So we have the potential of significantly reducing greenhouse gases on our own as part of our energy independence strategy but

will work together with other nations of the world presumably through the same processes which have been underway over the last a month or so. We'll continue to work with other nations and see if we can come up with with options that the world will agree to. But of course every nation is going to want to have it work out for them. And my guess is that China and India will will be looking for some kind of escape clause for their very high growth rates and we're going to find that a very difficult negotiation I'm sure. Well if there were a Kyoto type protocol that did include China and India would a President Romney sign it off includes the entire world. And it's and it's a fair inclusion of those of the nations of course. But but there's a very big gap because they're going to say they they want to continue to grow dramatically and they want us to reduce and we're going have a difficult time I'm sure that's why the negotiations are so are so so prolonged at this stage. You mentioned clean coal and liquid coal Governor Romney and other Herford other Republican candidates and some Democratic candidates talk about this. But the rap from environmentalists on these two

forms of coal energy is that they are sure we get lots of them. So that gives us energy independence but that they are just dirty and there's not much you can do about it. Well that's actually not the case. There's a plant in in North Dakota which makes liquid coal and they sequester the CO2 they pump it back into the ground to use for enhanced oil recovery because the CO2 pumped into the ground pushes oil out. So they get more oil and at the same time they're storing the CO2 underground. So there are technologies which which we have presently and which can also be developed to make coal and even cleaner burning fuel but we only have so many choices at this stage. Nuclear certainly should be a bigger part of the mix. And for frankly for environmental reasons we stop building nuclear power plants. The French are very environmentally sensitive nation is overwhelmingly nuclear. So we have to be doing a lot more nuclear and probably developing coal technologies and seeing if we can make them clean burning non CO2 emitting as well as our renewable

resources. But recognize that the energy needs of an economy of our scale cannot possibly be met with with renewable resources alone. We're going to wind and solar wind and solar and biomass and exactly that we're going to have to develop other sources whether it's nuclear or coal based or or other fuels that that are non CO2 emitting a lot more questions for you on the side. Governor Romney but I want to go back to our callers. This is Tim in line center. Hi Tom go ahead you're on the exchange and Governor Romney will go back to November 7th 2005 you had spent about half a million dollars of the Massachusetts Taxpayers money in about 30 months. You had appointed a very skilled gentleman Doug Foye and negotiated the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative on behalf of Massachusetts and the 10 states now that are about to enact it. And you were quoted by The Boston Globe on that day November 7th saying it's quote good for business. Then about six weeks later on November and December 14th 2005 when our

By the way before you declared you would not run again for governor. You pulled Massachusetts out of the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative saying it was bad for business it's just six weeks later and again the same question you have. Like many have like myself you have zero doubt about U.S. leadership ongoing and even going it alone with these banks with respect to Iraq. Why on global warming even with the McKinsey report now saying that it would have a positive effect on the economy if the U.S. moved ahead. Why why the distinction OK. All right. First of all the original Greenhouse Gas Initiative Doug foin others a short May would never increase the cost to our consumers of energy by more than 10 percent actually they thought to be substantially less than a 10 percent increase in the cost of electricity for our homeowners and our businesses. And so is the final product was being negotiated. I said well let's make sure and put a cap in there that we're not going to raise prices to our homeowners and businesses by more than 10 percent.

And and the other party said oh no we can't put a cap like that in there. And I noted Well we have a number of folks which have indicated that the that the the price of electricity in our state could go up by some 30 percent. I said I can't let it go up 30 percent. This is a largely symbolic move it will have no effect on world greenhouse gases. And and I can't have our energy prices in our state go up by 30 percent. I had literally one of our largest employers tell me they would not build another facility in our state if we signed the bill as it was without a cap. And so I insisted that the other parties put a cap in the other states would not. And I said very simple if the other states are not going to allow us to have a cap I can't sign it. If you put a cap in I will sign it. So in a negotiation on a matter of this significance there if you will a policy council and and if you don't have a cap if you say for instance that the homeowners are going to see as much as a 30 percent increase in electric prices that's not something as governor I was willing to sign up for. Maybe somebody else would but I wouldn't. Now

with regards to unilateral decision on the US to dramatically reduce CO2 and let and let China just go ahead and do whatever they want to do think through what happens when that occurs. I spent my life in the private sector. If if you have one country namely ours that puts in place caps which let's say cost make energy go up 30 percent or 20 percent. If I now have an industry that uses a lot of energy I'm not going to build another facility in the U.S. I'm going to build them in China where they don't have the cap. And so I'll move my facilities to China. And what you'd end up having happen is instead of having if you will relatively clean burning energy and the U.S. natural gas and so forth that we burn here now I'd be moving a plant to China where they have dirty coal high sulfur coal polluting the earth even more what you'd find is by one nation clamping down and letting the other nation not clamp down you'd move production to the high high polluting nation and hurt the overall environment. That's why you have to do this globally at least already with this be for your ministration just real quick.

Well it's a very it's a very high priority for me to get us on a track to become energy independent which reduces our greenhouse gases as well. All right thanks a lot for the call Tim and again the exchange number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Stay with us. This is New Hampshire Public Radio and where it comes from our members and from Plymouth State University's College of graduate studies wishing all New Hampshire Public Radio listeners and supporters a safe and happy holiday season and the grand family stay Motors Lincoln Mercury and your service for over 88 years stay Motors Lincoln Mercury highway north Manchester online it's a motorist on Call. Good morning it's nine thirty nine. This is New Hampshire Public Radio. Programs that really shape our day today and the Diane Rehm Show. Raindrops on the Prairie Home Companion the whole StoryCorps project Marketplace Morning Edition. If HPR programs are a few of your favorite things consider making a

contribution by calling 1 800 6 3 9 4 1 3 1. You can also take advantage of the charitable IRA provision of 2007 before the end of the year. Visit us online at npr.org for details and thanks. This is the exchange I'm Laura Conaway. Today in exchange our presidential coverage continues the guest this morning Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney. The exchange number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. E-mails are welcome to keep them brief. The address exchange at an HPR dot org. Governor Romney lots of calls. Let's go back to them. Steve in Concord is up next. Welcome Steve. Go ahead you're on the air. The discussion about immigration has been ongoing and when I listen to Governor Romney talk about his differences with Senator McCain and Mayor Giuliani It seems like they're pretty much in the same place. But here's a two part question. One last week Senator McCain said on your show lot that he did not favor and his legislation categorically did not allow 12 million people to stay here. And I remember that in fact he said

those who in any of those that you allow to stay have to go to the back of the line like Governor Romney said. So isn't Governor Romney really kind of overstating the difference and really not accurately portraying what Senator McCain said last week. His legislation did and then a second question Governor Romney there had been reports in The Globe which we know aren't favorable to Republicans of any kind generally but that he had illegal aliens that worked for a company that worked on his lawn and that he stopped it and then it happened again and I'm not being critical. But if if that's the difficulty we have doing it in our everyday interaction with companies that might have illegals how can he effectively say that he'll be able to prevent this on a national scale. Steve thanks a lot for calling. Go ahead Governor Romney both questions. Well first of all the first question has been thoroughly vetted and discussed nationwide that Senate bill that came forward said that all 12 million people were eligible for a Z visa and the

Z visa could be renewed indefinitely. If that's not a form of amnesty I'm not sure what is. It basically would say all 12 million people other than those that have been convicted of crimes but all 12 million people would be able to get a Z visa. And the Z visa again renewed indefinitely. So all 12 million got to stay forever. Now whether or not they became citizens was a different matter. They had to get in line they went to the back of the line and that's what Senator McCain always talks about which is how these 12 million people have to go to the back of the line. They have to. They might have to wait 13 years to become citizens. Look that may be true about them becoming citizens but if they get to stay in America the rest of their life that's simply unfair. That is saying that they're getting a privilege the right to stay here permanently if you will a green card and that millions of people who are waiting in line for such a privilege are now at the back of the line. That's simply wrong and that's why the whole nation got up and screamed about that that bill that Senator McCain brought forward don't forget it was

going forward until talk radio got calls people were sending e-mails to their senators and congressmen. And the bill got stopped because it permanently let 12 million people stay here for the rest of their life. And then with regards to you know what do employers do right now. The challenge employers have is that if someone presents a document saying they're here legally the employer under law is not allowed to discriminate against that document. So the employer sees something which he or she may think looks like it's forged by law they may not discriminate against that document so they hire the person then it turns out the person is not legal and the employer has egg on their face. What do you do. Well in my view you give every legal alien a card identifying them is legal with a work status stamp on it if you will the person that wants to hire someone can look at their card have it authorized or verified from the from the federal government just by going to the Internet for standard documents and jotted down a document for it caught in situations like your long suit.

Exactly. The company that did my landscaping they tried desperately not to have any illegal aliens but you know they had a heart. They don't really have a way of determining that. So put in place if you will a immigration verification program so that people know who's here legally and who's not. Once you do that you stop the flow of illegal aliens into the country. Thanks for that call Steve and I have an email here for you this is turning back to the issue of Iraq Governor Romney which we talked about before. This is from Fred in Deerfield and by the way Fred gave us several thoughtful questions. We won't have time to go to all of them. But thank you friend. This is one he says you have been a strong supporter of the war in Iraq. If you were elected president as commander in chief you will be in a position to encourage young men and women to join the military. How do you encourage them to enlist while you have not been effective in encouraging any of your own sons to join the military. Can you answer Fred's question Governor Romney. Yes we have a voluntary military in this country we do not go to kids and say we're either going to draft you or you have an obligation to go to the military that's not what

we do. We instead make an offer to them which is attractive to many people to join the military as a career and and and we've been able to fill our military ranks as needed. I believe we should add at least a hundred thousand more troops to our military. That means we'll probably need to improve the offer so that more people sign up. In my state for instance we had declining enrollment and the National Guard was going down 5 or 6 percent a year and then we said you know what. Let's pass a bill we called the welcome home Bill. It said if you'd signed up for the National Guard you got four years tuition and fee free at any Massachusetts institution a public higher learning when we passed that our enrollment rose by 30 percent. So make the offer that people find attractive and we'll be able to fill the ranks of our military. How do you feel about the personal nature of this call. You know your own sons haven't been encouraged to do it. My own sons are all married. Four of the five have children of their own. They're able to choose their own careers. We welcome and and honor the

people who serve in our military but we certainly don't denigrate those who choose a different path and say there's something wrong with them instead people who want to go into the military and feel honored to serve our nation. We we respect with a special level of recognition. I've got another more personal question for you Governor Romney and boy we could do a whole hour on the speech that you made recently about religion. But here's a question that I actually got from a friend of mine here in Concord an independent voter. He said ask the governor how he feels in a nation supposedly founded on the principle of religious tolerance that you are in some quarters being ruled out as a presidential candidate just based on discomfort with Mormonism. He said How does he feel about that. Well obviously if there are people who think you should cross someone off because of their faith I don't think that's consistent with the with a view that the nation's founders had originally our country really was quite divided over religion. Originally we were intolerant of other faiths and that's why there were there were

people like and Hutchinson and Roger Williams and others that were that were banished famous names here and names famous names because we did not accept the beliefs of others. It was the founders in Philadelphia that had this brilliant insight that one of the things that would make our nation so strong was tolerating other people's views. Religious Liberty became part of America's founding belief. And and I frankly think it's consistent with religious liberty to welcome people of different faiths to to positions of leadership in our nation. How do you feel that you personally are not being given the same tolerance by some voters heard what some of the evangelicals in Iowa have said I'll never vote for that. Well I am by the great majority of people. I think most people and particularly here in New Hampshire reject the idea of selecting a candidate based upon which church he or she goes to. And so I'm confident that when when when the people of America get a chance to make their voice heard they're not going to make a decision on that basis. There are

plenty of reasons not to like my candidacy but my faith certainly can't be one of them. Well Governor one last question for you. This is from let's see I can't read who this is from because it's sort of a funny e-mail. Sandman is the person. When Governor Romney was running for the Republican nomination in Massachusetts he told delegates the nominating convention. And I was one of them that to win in Massachusetts a Republican had to appeal to a majority of independent voters. Now you don't need me to tell you how important independents are here in New Hampshire. This person wants to know does he think he has to win a majority of swing voters to become president. And if so how hard can he twist the steering wheel to get back to the middle of the road this is the old you know run to the left or the right during the primary and then come back to the center during the general election. You know I have a record. People know what I did as the governor of Massachusetts. I think the combination of my fiscal conservatism as well as the progress I made in doing some very important things like getting health care for all of our citizens will make my campaign a pretty

compelling campaign for the presidency. I think that people want to see America be strong again. They want a person who understands how the private sector works how jobs come and go. I'm not a lifelong politician. I spent my life in the private sector. I'm immensely practical. I want to get America strong. I want to protect our jobs. I want us to have more friends on the international stage. So we're stronger militarily and diplomatically around the world. I also want to strengthen our families by making sure they have good health care and good schools and their taxes are held down. These are these are the messages which I think appeal to independents just as much as they do to Republicans. I am pro-life now I recognize that that that some people are going to say well that's not acceptable to me. But you know George Bush won and he was pro-life and he is pro-life and Ronald Reagan won one commandingly and he was pro-life. I don't think people will will cross a candidate off because of a social position they may or may not agree with.

But I do think that my overall record will make me a very compelling candidate for those in the center who are looking for someone that will keep America strong keep their taxes down help them with good jobs make sure we get better health care improve our schools get us energy independent. I think that's what America wants. I think they're tired of lifelong politicians. And if you think that what we really need in Washington is someone who's been in Washington for a few decades. That's what we need. I'm not your guy. If you think it's dead we need somebody who comes from the private sector who's raised a family run a business run the Olympics and had four years at his hand in Massachusetts that I am your guy. Well Governor Romney I'm so sorry we didn't get more detail into health care because I know that's big for you. Maybe we'll grab you for 15 minutes before the New Hampshire primary or something. I understand from your campaign that you need to leave a little early and that's fine. We appreciate your time. I don't want to be the cause of you being late for somebody else's event. So I appreciate your joining us this morning. Keep taking calls dealing with the audience know that. But Governor Romney thank you very much. Thanks Laura there's been a lot of fun. Appreciate the time with you.

Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney former Massachusetts governor he served from 0 2 to 0 6. He's a Republican presidential candidate. We'll keep taking your calls for the rest of the hour. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And joining us now on the phone is Una H. Professor Dante Scala. Good morning Dante. Thanks for your time. Good morning. Could you just keep us up to date Dante on what happened in the presidential primary. Well most of us were busy rapping presidents and singing Christmas carols first on the Democratic side Dante what happened over the weekend. Well what happened over the weekend. We basically have seen polling that indicates that New Hampshire is a tossup now and and that Iowa of course is also fiercely competitive. So I think all the candidates took off for the holidays really not knowing exactly where they stand and whether there's any way they can point to as a lead or a firewall of any kind. You've got Edwards Obama Clinton really neck and neck in Iowa. And given the

polling difficulties out there because it's hard to figure out who's going to actually turn out to caucus. That's really up in the air and on the Democratic side we actually my colleague Andy Smith his latest you NH poll shows that Obama has a small lead in New Hampshire. So that's up for grabs as well. So it's really a lot of uncertainty heading into the new year. Now there's been a lot of discussion about endorsements lately again first on the Democratic side Dante. What's going on with the endorsements here in New Hampshire any way they seem to be up and down and all around. Yeah endorsements are. I think we're going to see what the Concord Monitor decides to do I think that'll be an important endorsement down the road perhaps the Manchester Union Leader of the New Hampshire union leader doesn't have quite the same impact on the Democrats as they do on the Republicans. So I think the monitors endorsement will be an interesting one to watch in the next several days. The monitor had sort of an anti endorsement just about two days ago saying don't vote for Governor Romney who was just on the air with us.

BOY Yeah the headline on that page which is the time.com Mark Halperin Web site described Romney as stuck in an editorial bias because now both that and the New Hampshire Union Leader has heartily endorsed John McCain and is going after Romney not on a daily basis but on a regular basis. And the Concord Monitor You know usually considered fairly more liberal than the New Hampshire union leader basically said that under no circumstances should anyone be voting for Mitt Romney this time around. So they haven't endorsed anyone yet but they certainly have made clear they're not going to endorse Mitt Romney. Quite the opposite. So the difficulty for Romney is that he's kind of stuck. Concord Monitor probably appeals to more moderate Republicans. The Union Leader to more conservative Republicans and he now he's kind of fighting a two front battle in New Hampshire which again is supposed to be his firewall in case Iowa doesn't work out. And on the Republican side Dante you've started to give us a hint but more broadly what happened over the weekend while most of us are busy with the holidays I think what we're

seeing is New Hampshire becoming a two man race is on the Republican side again on the Republican side between Governor Romney and John McCain who's hoping to repeat his success here in 2000 in New Hampshire. Rudy Giuliani has been slipping steadily in the polling and basically Giuliani's loss is McCain's gain because for most of the year they've been appealing to a particular type of Republican in New Hampshire someone who's more moderate less conservative less concerned with abortion and gay rights issues. So we've seen them neck and neck for most of the year but now Giuliani slipping McCain is gaining. I saw Mitt Romney in Londonderry over this past weekend. He drew very well about 250 300 folks which on the weekend before Christmas is not not bad right. But he did you know he got a good good packed house and you could hear echoes of what he said today in terms of attacks on John McCain over the next several days which is one

McCain's position on the Bush tax cuts. And then secondly that McCain is the one who's the Washington insider. Mitt Romney is the outsider who will come in and clean up Washington. I heard him say that at the end of the program. Exactly and I think just the fact that he would mention John McCain in his stump speech to New Hampshire voters in Londonderry tells you something about who's got momentum right now and who's worried about someone catching up. And so I think you could see over the next gosh what is it now next 13 days now that we're going to see might see more attacks by Romney on McCain which is an indication that the campaign's worry. Well and one last question for you speaking of momentum or the lack there of what happened to Rudy Giuliani. You know three months ago he was the man to beat. Yeah if you ask me a couple of months ago I was sitting pretty because he hasn't won a single ad in the state and he's in second place now. He's been running ads for a good month now and he's been doing. He's just been doing nothing but slip in the polls. I think it's several things. One is

I think a lot of people are worried about the personal baggage that comes with Giuliani and the kind of stories have been dribbling out in New York City in terms of his career as mayor providing security for his mistress who turned into his third wife. That's stuff like that I think is worrying. Moderates in New Hampshire and they're looking for someone who's more reliable more electable. And I think Giuliani also his message hasn't quite fit the times in the sense that foreign policy all of a sudden he has to be on the backburner among voters minds. So Giuliani with his emphasis on the war on terror on Iran and Iraq isn't getting that play that he might have if Iraq and Iran were on the front pages every day. All right Dante one thing certain is the primary approach is not is that you and I will be having a lot more conversation. Looking forward to it. I appreciate your time this morning. We'll talk to you again soon. OK very good. Dante Scala associate professor at NH exchanges a production of New Hampshire Public Radio producer Ty Fraley The engineer Dan COLGAN our volunteers Priscilla Malcomb our theme music was

composed by Bob Lord. Thanks to everyone who took the time to e-mail us today we sure appreciate it. The exchanges executive producer Keith shields and I'm Laura