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     National Association of Educational Broadcasters Convention - Rm 15 Session
    on Research: Dr. Presley Holmes, Chmn (Reel 1)
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I don't know. I think the room is small enough so that this new modern microphone here will be unnecessary. Whatever that is and I think we ought to get started I want to thank you all for coming. We promise that you will not miss too much of your lunch hour. I do plan to end the session as scheduled at 12:30 so everybody will be going at about 78 and then you can play it back at thirty three if you have not been able to follow it. I'm press Holmes chairman of the Salustri panel and without further ado I think we ought to get into the first presentation with Dr John Barton of Michigan State University and Horace Hartsell of Michigan State. Talking about well maybe I ought to give a little background. There is a report that the research committee of the ne e. Recently within the last two weeks. Came
out let me give you a little background on that. We had in talking with. People. That felt one of the problems and there are many but one of the problems with research in this area is there has been something on the order of a two year time gap between the time somebody starts a project and gets approval for it gets money for it and the time most of us can find out about it when it gets into print or. Into some kind of a journal or report as published we felt that if we could collapse that time gap in any way we could let people know what was going on while it's still in progress. For one thing. So that maybe two or three people attacking the same problem might be able to get together or someone else who thinks that problem is not being attacked and ought to be would have a place to go to find out what is going on. This was one of the major purposes of
this report. It was also an attempt to build some kind of a roster of people who are engaged in research in radio and television. These reports are available. They were supposed to be available outside this room somewhere perhaps they will be down at the main desk. There is an educational discount available to you. If you wish to pick one up now on the basis of this that was part of the reason for the title of this session who's doing what to whom and why we don't know about it. We don't know about it because things don't get into print often enough. We hope this report will take care of part of that. And the four gentlemen who are here today are a result of that report and an attempt to give you some idea of the diversity of research that's being done. There is a tenuous relationship at best between the papers that are going to be presented today.
They are all concerned with research but diverse topics and we hope to stimulate a little interest along these lines and give you some idea of what is going on. And this report by the Research Committee should fill in other gaps. So now again I introduce Dr. John Garson of Michigan State and Horace Hartsell who will present some information about an instructional systems development project. Thank you President. I might begin to say that we've made a two part plan in presenting the information we have to offer. Primarily because a good deal of our study depends upon previous experiences at Michigan State with the development and use of instructional media. And Dr. Hartsell has a long history at the institution with this work very new on the campus and was assigned the job of directing the study which is sponsored by the U.S. Office of Education as I'd like to turn over the first half hour presentation of Dr. Laura's Hartsell director of the audiovisual center arse.
We thank you. As Dr. Barzan indicated the introduction and he'll tell you about the research. It's nice to see our Michigan State colleagues sitting over here to listen to each word to weigh it and to determine whether or not it's accurate and I see. Mr. Davies are there smiling. I've been involved in this as much as we have about three years ago. Dr. Armand Hunter came to us and said look we have been applying here on this campus. Some of the elements that seemingly reflect a systems approach to education. Why don't we have some attempt to put together a research team and identify some of the aspects of an instructional system development
model that might be helpful to us and would be helpful to other people. Yes. Dr. Walter Emory to put together this planning committee to drop by our direction. And Dr. Kobi Loyce is also there. And after the first meeting they asked Dr. Charles Schuler director of the audiovisual center to prepare the document. In introducing why we were interested in this particular you know US Grant I think reflects what we have been attempting to do over the years we have a closed circuit educational operation under the provost and the audiovisual operation under the university or university dean. We work together at times and other times we program and plan separately. I have in the back projected their slide that would likely be used not for we
say this particular slide. You will notice result our systems are probably. Right. The students might slip. From life. You will notice the students are using some of the slide material and the carousel projectors on individual screen. We do not have a University of Texas learning resources facility where we have the rearview screens and everything at your fingertips so we have to go to the more cumbersome way. Back in 1954 and 55 we were moving toward teaching courses by simulation. The simulator and driver education electronically control a classroom driver computer kind of thing. The course was programmed out we used a lot of Atmos material. We
attempted very early to pull sections together and poultry husbandry and use the overhead projector to see if we could teach larger groups and come out with as effective instruction as previous. We used a lot of closed circuit television and some broadcast television in relationship to course arrangement. And over the years we produced one complete course for traffic engineering that used by a lot of the colleges in the United States with this kind of background then it was natural that we began to say what are the kinds of elements Sam puts into such a system I see on the slide. This is the students are actually studying a unit and natural science in the university college on rocks. We produced a hundred fifty seven slides they use the chemicals by the projectors they proceed on their own rate. There is a written program to go with. The students to compute their information on them by punching
cards that are sent over to a computer and the information comes back after the exercise. The student saved about 10 to 12 hours of math work. After his mouth exercising there after the classification of rocks. So we say now what does it take to get this much ready for an instructional program certainly there must be some elements in your somewhere that would reflect the system. Sir we had this time already. The dots that you see on the screen represent decisions that have to be made in relationship to planning any sort of instructional development direction. The blue represents the instructor. We work with the instructor and as media specialist in the audio visual center not just making the graphics for them but helping to plan for the behavioral
task that had been identified trying to encourage them to reduce their content to reasonable points where we could identify or they would identify the behavior they saw and then we would begin to try to help them advice them into packages. So let us say that in any instructional system we have all of these decisions and yet what we were doing before the research we would work directly with the faculty member and yet the research was really close. We hear well you know we have over the course are television the educators that were working with you that we have and they are the media stations that were kind of neat and educational system right. So far come my way.
There are any place we can identify our writer for Wired for the research began by trying to find books you can just about or or can't hear instructions on how to be so with this research around. The development and relationship to approach. For me you know I'm hoping to accomplish the objective behavior objective satyrs learned situation this morning from the research. Dr. Marshall and the chairman of our roommate later over the question. Right well looks like
you're right about my starting point for my private life. So far on Twitter and as well I don't live in their
cars. We're trying to develop the structure is very difficult because we are right there on the structure you're looking at the counseling structure also what personal injury or course they are concentrating on earth for a very very very
dark and very kind of you or no problem at all. We're very good with you know just keep looked it up. Case with products that struck her say her role in Charlie's study lots of which might be useful in highly developed. Yes there are always saying
oh there is a line in the number of cycles and of course the real nature of study the search for experience and try to do it everywhere so we find what is the source of it. And I believe you get much work done so far this is the sort of thing. Approach in Iraq identifying the point of the look of the car struck the city. However this is old and very wise in dormitory style you're actually interacting with the girls
existing medical course structures or something which we thought carried far outnumber the people who were going there was one of the fighter pilots the right to their requests for that they're actually and those we are working days are not the sort of other research finds there are it was a fine week with regard to where we were probably basing our procedures in the end point which research might file are conducted on the service was all revolutionary guard. Look let's walk through that particular location. You forget it's really almost a year. Once they
realize they're in their place but we won't be more specific back there it is as the broadcasting or primary start especially the broad was via the struggles the first responsible for starting with a face I thought an outline and that my story one way or another. Eventually we come up with more discussion I wouldn't trust this people my result was the original study we were on the site is for people now and the reader is at a point. If you do I'll just say very lucky for me again you pursue this
very well you don't need any of this phase or the foreign doctors except there were there are surely better ways of getting out of the present. The psychology study before the morning break you down to her what is the best years for these the humanitarian group or the feeling that there was a large present vote on the website. Text reply to the mine away from me to give the area you know yourself for sweet nice for yourself Jack. Fight for life or you forget yourself and so forth. Well there
are many areas. We worked very well again. Here are looking like your partners in your area yet to be specific when the leak or you know for sure it was a great deal more to know and do this internally. Well it was largely on the side of the gun or just with the aerial search you know you're sure the sea life is really all I was a certain resource the site here this is the issue to get worried about this med.. What resources do that primarily resulting from. Love their users and they sure easily television will slide in the stock. Market this or
why you didn't you were probably construct basic to it but there is a good deal on forward in general hiring to do to go along with your desire to strike fire somewhere you represent to be brought in to assess what is it that these investors on the road to get the facts and develop more before the actual trial requires enough to meet your financial tested or there is the other risk you're on your bike to a large state as well as the one fire under any situation.
So that's all you're trying to do no more any sort of design partly because there's a possibility of revising the whole recycling situation or these are bros. We're facing some of the problems encountered. Why the enlightened further state resources here we're talking about the use of the church. This is one of the sort you know from the inputs transparency to deal with the serial killer. The situation in the terms of the girl the girl was just going to strike for sure. For the very ones that made the decision finally she chooses what will this is a tremendous time. We know the story on their site. This is just like users
of the girl mention the copyright stuff just for our eyes nor is there one with the falling price for using money. Very complex. Stuff. Question was What will you do or not and have not been much of a problem with either reduce or raise through some PC problems. Follow me here. What is what you exactly what is your if you want to get a good view of the reality. You mean your work with face to face time. Sitting down to feel yourself feeling out there but this is all right you know this is the reply from armed groups or large institutions like universities who are shooters. Presently this is not true and other people are trying to establish codes which transmit the characteristics and needed to produce
any communication evolved on these points. So as we see there it is just one of the keys which we are considering yet is very or are concerned the deal with jury instructions becoming more and more difficult. You say funny or is that it will always be right. That is a choice we get back to lightly. Very very complex situation. More light hearted way. The director already got points for teaching the slowest 70 percent of
our universities for using only party to park their cell yet their partners I can't see the 70 percent that it was for your part or that are producing 5 6 percent for the normal situation really does large do the right things. For. The masses were in our course. Course you must be very good luck with your. Well I think that my kind of love you know bright young very shortly for sure. Well I think what you're right. All right let me get this. Right.
In the center. See you're switching to life here is a sequence of decisions when you feel like you're like the best established specialist's which began to work very very very very sick for then these decisions you're going to have specified by this point prior that when the stock market indicators or the scenario that you look for you know why not use it for. You know there are some overlapping responsibilities now that you can use various positions of these color ideas to get this right. All right. This is shared by preserving our very first
search and probably. Thank you. There you are. This was a very interesting presentation. It's one of the things that strikes me is this is something to look forward to this final report as it comes out. I should mention that there are some copies of the papers and a kind of a position statement from Dr. Carson and Dr. Marshall and Warren Seibert paper and Dr. Evans are also up here which you can get without. Further adieu then I would like to introduce Dr. Warren Seibert who is head of the Instructional Materials Research instructional Media Research Unit
at Purdue University and I think it's particularly appropriate here in the state of Texas that he's going to be talking about a posse procedure. And as. I wrote out what I was going to say and I didn't like it any better than I think you would like it so what I'm going to try to do instead is to wing it and to describe. Really to outline not just pasi procedure which incidentally doesn't exist anymore we change the name. It's now a cyst procedure. The name doesn't matter anyway. But I want to talk not only about that and some rather ridiculous things we're doing with it. I have done with it and intend to do. But also some other studies that we have underway which I think might be of interest. I took fairly seriously the I guess major title that is of this section which is
what is Who doing to whom and why don't we know more about it or something like that. We have several studies underway which are considered of considerable interest to us. We're enthusiastic about them. If it wasn't for last night's session I had an old friend I might be able to convey some of that enthusiasm as it is I'll be lucky if I don't go to sleep. So if I start to snore I hope you'll wake me up. One thing that interested us several years ago in which we tried a little study on it and we've gotten back on two which seems to us to be an area in which some really good work can be done has to do with the information carrying capacity of television. We've got rules of thumb concerning television and the kinds of visual information that it is capable of carrying at least so far as we can find in the literature. There is nothing which is very
specific that goes beyond really rules of thumb that can indicate to you what the information capacity is. So we ran a study back I guess it was 1957 having to do with factors influencing the legibility of materials that were presented visually by means of television. We varied character size and viewing distance and viewing angle contrast condition and even had a wrinkle thrown in to try to check for any fatigue effects. After that one study we dropped it until just this past summer when we picked it up again. One of the manufacturers was interested in bandwidth restriction and the extent to which this would be influential in bringing about some deterioration in the legibility of the visual material. The odd thing was just very quickly going over the data as we have seen it so far with essentially an unrestricted almost six mega cycle signal.
They disappear ERP the information transmission is not nearly as apparent as you would think it should be. We had subjects operating under six mega cycles two and a half mega cycle to make a cycle one mega cycle and 750 Killah cycles. So that when you got down to 750 obviously it was a pretty lousy picture and it was very hard for them to identify material that we presented visually. But the six mega cycle are virtually six and the two in the two and a half so far as we could tell we're getting very nearly the same results. If anything the two and a half mega cycle of highly restrictive condition was slightly better than six. Now this. Same level of incredible I'm not real sure the data just as I'm not sure of a lot of data that I'm going to try to talk about but it does seem to me that if we're going to try to develop effective and efficient communication systems we ought to know something about the
carrying capacity is that they haven't we ought to try to identify what would for our purposes be an optimal capacity. You got into television production and you have a lot of visual material presented in the media that a question arises. Well now is this visible is above the threshold far. The subject at such and such a point in the room and so you throw a wet finger to the wind and you say well I hope it is and I think it is and away we go. This I suppose serves well announced but I still think there are some fascinating questions there and one of these days somebody may be asked but hopefully somebody more intelligent is going to get a hold of this and I think make some capital out of it so that at least an crude outline is one study. The second one we have underway actually is being done by my associate Dick snow. And I should have thrown in one other preface here. There's not a study I guess that I'll mention which is
in any sense are the docs. We gave up doing our the docs study some time ago and it probably it's too bad but we couldn't find anything else to do that was our docs. And so we've been doing great crazy things and the second study is kind of crazy. But in the literature beginning about 10 years ago it was some stuff that a man named Ed Fleishman dead. He was then at Yale he is now on the factorial composition of learning and psychomotor tasks and what he would do and general outline would be to gather together a group of tasks that tested for various psychomotor manipulative abilities to administer these to a group of subjects and then put the subjects through a learning task a psychomotor learning task they had to learn to crack with a little joystick arrangement I think it was. Every PM trials as they went through the learning of this task he would take
information concerning how well they were proceeding with their learning. It got quite carrying information until finally he carried them through on one study about 70 learning trials. And they had proceeded from a state of pretty considerable ignorance of the past to a state of considerable proficiency. Now what he wanted to know was what is the composition. What are the component scales of the demonstrated ability at each of several points in this learning. What he found was that as you proceed from the very early stages in the Learning to the later and later stages the ability factors that are involved shift positions. You have some abilities that seem very substantially involved early and that diminish. You have others that are not involved and a considerable extent early in the learning and they grow larger and then you got some of course that don't seem to know where they're going. But
this little notion. Setbacks no doubt wondering what happens when people are repeatedly exposed to something like an instructional film. If a person gets repeated exposures to the same instructional film what abilities are there that initially come into play. If you test them following the exposure to the film. And how does this differ from the abilities that seem to be involved. At least after they have been exposed time and again and theyre picking up little bits and pieces that they had not originally learned. So he's using generally the same scheme that Fleishman used and instead of the psychomotor learning task he has an instructional film learning task. This study will be running subjects on up to about two or three months from now and it'll be I suppose six months or so before we know much about what it's going to show yet present some problems that are rather unique that are different from those that Fleishman had to face. The principal one being that as Fleischmann. Rand
his students through this learning task. He automatically got information concerning how well they were proceeding it was automatically provided as they learned they could gather this without taking any special efforts to gather it. In our case of course as you show us found time and again you have no way of knowing how much learning there is unless you take time out and you measure and that measurement in and of itself can have some effect on the learning. So we've had to build a couple wrinkles into the design. FLEISHMAN didn't have to worry about inches and they may be adequate wrinkles and maybe they'll have serious shortcomings. But in any event they really the root of it is we've got a suspicion and I suspect a lot of you share that there are some unique abilities at least that are involved in learning from non print media essentially non-verbal are largely non-verbal media. We have literacy in the print and the language world.
It occurs to us and there is some limited support for the notion that there is something that we might call media literacy that there are unique capabilities of the individual which either equip him or fail to equip him to deal with some of these nonverbal communication means that we now have at our disposal. So what we're trying to get at perhaps by a back door route is what some of these ability factors are and how we might be able to use them then in improving learning settings. Third studied at least as ridiculous as that one last one is one that we've had underway now for a couple of years and we'll have final report out on it within I hope about 90 days as a study that utilizes motion pictures as a medium for our educational and psychological testing. The there are two sides I guess to the interest here first of all the purely practical considerations we have
now a great deal of film teaching and of television teaching. You have situations certainly with television where students are at some distance from their quote teacher Post quote. It would seem reasonable to try to get means of casting student progress which were nicely suited to this great gap in distance between teacher and student. So why not try to use television as a medium for testing and let see what its capabilities are. But we have done is to put together just out of our. Not too fertile brain some ideas. On film tests that we thought might be interesting to try then to throw them together with some factored reference past some ability tasks that have been a factor analyzed many times and then just to see what we got to see what it was that perhaps we were majoring with these film tests and to see whether there was any unique whether there were any unique dimensions of ability which we could identify in our
film test that didn't already exist in these paper pencil factored ability test. This is not particularly a practical interest although I think it would and could have some practical implications. But there is now a considerable interest in growing interest in identifying the dimensions of human intellectual ability and it just occurs to us that there might be some that are not well suited to testing with static largely verbal printed test material. And it's this kind of material which for the moment makes up the great bulk of all the tasks that you can find anywhere including those that are used in fact or analytic studies. So our suspicion we've got some slight confirmation for this is that if you can build tests which incorporate page rhythm motion into the test emulous material you can create some problem situations that call
far rather unique abilities. The kind that would not be involved with paper pencil test and I will see how the story comes out I don't want to try to go into much detail on what we found but we've got a few things that look rather interesting here and I think it's going to be a fruitful area to continue working at. Let me see now that's one two three. Got one other brief one and then I've got to await his procedure. This last study I was wasn't sure when I wrote it down in my little notes here whether it be appropriate to mention even. But since several of the speakers have brought up the idea of the information explosion it seems to me that is appropriate. We happened just by accident to work rather closely with the librarians there at Purdue and it turns out that they like any other professional group have a great number of problems. We became conversant with a few of them. And. One thing that.
Bothers them is it bothers everybody and particularly in education today is where are we going in terms of numbers in terms of the dimensions of service which we must render. Let's say ten years from now. Well you know how don't play with it until it finally occurred to us that there is an outfit called the Association of research libraries in this country. It is made up of a very substantial group. You might even say the most substantial group of university libraries to be found anywhere in the country or probably anywhere in the world. These libraries are banded together and over many years now they have reported the vital statistics of each of the member institutions. They report how many volumes they hold how many volumes they have acquired during the year how much money they have spent on staffing how much money they have spent for acquiring books and so on. So that we could know in much detail
what the position of each of these libraries was at any point in at least recent time. We tried one little study and found out that among these libraries there were some very substantial inner Carl ations among all these things the number of volumes they acquire the number of volumes they hold in the library correlate probably a point eighty five or so with one another. The number of staff they have and the number of volumes they hold they correlate Maybe point 85 or even Point 9 0. So these things are highly under car lated and it's possible to make rather intelligent predictions of how big their library is if you simply know how many staff they have. Also you could add with these data. Look at for example acquisition rate and we did it in 1951 on the average of these institutions we have looked at were accumulating volumes for their libraries at an average rate of about thirty five thousand volumes. In
1963 they were accumulating volumes at a rate of sixty six thousand volumes. There was is almost a doubling in a 13 year period. It seems to me perhaps the book publishers would be interested in this little statistic as they think about copyright matters. The institutions of higher education are I think on the basis of this evidence and lots of others rather good friends of book publishers when they double their consumption of the publishers material every 13 years or so. The other thing well several other things that came out. Staff costs in these libraries have traveled in 13 years. Even though size of staff has gone up hardly 50 percent so that people are making more money and this is good. Most of the many of the statistics that we've traced by these libraries have gone through perhaps within the past dozen 13 years.
So we're going to have a report out on that before. Well I'd say I'd be six months but maybe a little earlier than that. It is I think of some interest as it's a way of looking at what the information explosion means in terms of library operations the services they are providing and where these services are going. You'll be able to plot rather nicely and to predict how many volumes these institutions are likely to be acquiring and 970 and 975. There's a nice smooth curve here and no trick at all to fit a curve to that and extrapolate about a long way into the future. Certainly a prediction far five or ten years from now I think could be very reliably made if you got beyond that and it becomes a little suspicious. So this study has been kind of fun to do. Now finally to the item that I really want to talk about. I don't know on time and I.
Oh well luckily the thing that I'm going to talk about is also outlined in the little paper here. But let me just mention a few things quickly and I'll get out of your way. I think anybody who looks at the literature on instruction and instructional improvement has a right to be shocked and dismayed and disappointed. You would think almost in looking at the literature that people let students learn either for all kinds of reasons or for no reason at all. No matter what is undertaken no matter what has been undertaken in recent years at least to try to find ways to improve instructional effectiveness. The great majority of these things even when undertaken by the brightest minds what we think are the brightest minds in the field have led to no significant difference. So it's been pretty hard to identify a variable that really mattered.
And it seems pretty ridiculous to suppose that really nothing matters that no matter what you do you know people are going to learn even if you keep your mouth shut it almost seems that people are going to learn that that can't be so or even if you don't give them a buck they're going to learn. So there must be something that brings about learning so we try to ridiculous things. We took 900 frames of linear programming material. And we got a group of 72 kids together and we split them into random thirds after matching first and then throwing one third into one. One student out of each of these triplets in the one group and another in the second another and the third first group of students we simply gave them a task that we put together to test for the things that are 900 frames. We're supposed to teach the next group. We put them through the program material and we tested them immediately after they've been exposed to the third group put them through the program and we cast them about four weeks later.
So we knew for each item in that past how many people. Approximately could respond correctly without any exposure to the destruction. We know how many people approximately could respond correctly immediately after they'd been through the instruction and we knew how many could respond. About four weeks later. So we said now somewhere in this program there must be things that brought about any differences any increases let's say from precast condition to immediate post test. So let's go into the program and let's find those frames within it which obviously exist to do something that is related to this particular test item. Maybe it's just the opening frame that introduces the term to them that we're going to test them for let's find all the frames that have anything to do with it. And let's see how well we can analyze them. And so we started analyzing things like how many frames were there that were related to the item. The test item in question How
many of these were delayed review frames how many times did the key term that we were testing for in the item appear as a stimulus term. How many times was it demanded as a response from the student. How many props were given within this set of frames.
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National Association of Educational Broadcasters Convention
National Association of Educational Broadcasters Convention - Rm 15 Session on Research: Dr. Presley Holmes, Chmn (Reel 1)
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MLA: “National Association of Educational Broadcasters Convention; National Association of Educational Broadcasters Convention - Rm 15 Session on Research: Dr. Presley Holmes, Chmn (Reel 1) .” 1964-10-28. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. March 1, 2024. <>.
APA: National Association of Educational Broadcasters Convention; National Association of Educational Broadcasters Convention - Rm 15 Session on Research: Dr. Presley Holmes, Chmn (Reel 1) . Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from