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It's very much unlike me to tell you it gets better. They can party here in Washington. You know those things are all over whereas only. The word descend but the word is not out yet. However it seems to be a very well-established body but it is rather unlikely. It's the difference between. Two completely merged forms you mean to be. Magical faction. Wishful thinking but at least by having the oral hearings. Every dog this is used to lobby has its day. So we all latter days all of us thought that it was rather like.
Well I think you got to be pretty freewheeling here this morning. There's a problem. In that we've been very kind. Christmas training personnel. For educational broadcasting particularly for educational television and of course one of the very very first things that we run into I suppose is that the difficulty. Of finding a common acceptance for what we mean by educational television is the sizzle and the cap star. But as you know we made a survey here last year developing human resources for education television with reports called. And here we are involved about 600 universities and. Colleges. And.
I suppose around 20 200 school systems. So whether you realize it because I didn't. Know I came up against it. You can take the 200 significant school systems I mean by that larger wind. Twenty two hundred six hundred colleges and universities you've got the bulk of education and everything else is free and. Even though you have another twelve hundred colleges of various kinds and you have another forty two thousand school systems you don't carry much in the way of student involvement. I feel there's a twenty two hundred six hundred so we pretty well covered. And we were. Struck by the fact that at no place we find
an adequate or what we considered inadequate are satisfactory programs. The standpoint of the educational ministration. Of training personnel for educational broadcasting are for the use of television in education for whatever purpose. And any of the institutions in the United States we found I think only about. And I'm just talking off top. I think we found 30 for three. Colleges that have offered some kind of. Training as courses of some kind for television. Well we talked to a great many people. In the field and. Found out that these differences of understanding. Part of the car's. Traditional orientation in the past 25 or 30 years
toward. Commercial broadcasting cause us to talk to people in the field of teacher education. And found out that. Generally. There was. Very little credit given to the idea of communication being a significant part of teacher education. This is just not accepted even though. We have found great enthusiasm and part of. Many many individual deans of schools of education departments of education. For looting communications in. And curriculum. They all known no significant thought had been given to it. They all deployed even the fact that there was such a
small area of training in the audio visual field in teacher education and very few places where it's required and but still nothing seems to be done about it. So here we have. Two areas that. We as educational. Broadcasters or educational users of electronic media. Our interest in teacher education and communications education and we find that neither of them. Are providing any significant training program. To develop person now for this field. Less is further heightened by this. It's peculiar figures here that I'm not sure that you're aware but I think this is rather significant.
This is based on the Numeration of some 7000 people in this field away from. Teachers on television to. Station managers program directors supervisors of instruction. So forth. From. A. College. Age it is from the age of having a college degree. To the age of 33. In other words under thirty three years of age employment in this field in education. Among the people employed in the country this age group only numbers a little less than 4 percent 3.7 to be exact. Under 43.
AS. Only approximately 34 percent. Under 43. And 30 percent of that is over 30 40. It's between 34 and 43. Between 44 and 54 has the 31 percent. So you have over 34 and up to 54. You have over 60 percent of people employed. But this is amazing. Over. 20 percent of all the people employed in this field are over 54. And over almost 12 percent of all those employed in the field or over 63. It's evident here. So all you have to do is to add these you got 31 on East 51 50 to 60 to 63 63
percent. 63 percent of all the people employed in this feel horrible 44 years day. Obviously. This means that whatever skills they have in this field or whatever skills are being employed. Have been learned. AB side of a regular. Program of education. That they have received their basic educational or communications training. In some other field and they have personally adapted to this field. This is why I suspect that there is not another area of professional activity. Where this is true but to have. 63 percent success by service 63 percent to.
60 63 percent over 40. Four years away. And I feel that is potentially a broader success certainly far even even though it's got a covers of. The country from coast to coast border to border. And there's an indication here that there is some kind of. A. Lack of vacuum of some nature that needs to be filled. I suspect we are some. Ideas on. And we felt that it ought to be brought out. Those of us who have a deep interest in and in the future. Of this activity. And recognizing the fact that unless we do make some effort to.
Educate and train. I separate these two ideas. Younger. People entering the field professionally. That we're not going to get a better use of this thing. We're going to get a lesser use or an adequate. We've seen this happen in the field general field of. Audio Visual education over the last 30 years and certainly it seems to me that much of the end adequacy in the use of audio visual materials in the field of education has been due to the fact that the specific training of professionals in the field and these knowledge is techniques. It happened so small so little consideration has been given to it. And I suspect it's the same things here are on the other hand we have a tremendous tool we know has to
be used if we're going to. Do even part of the job that has been lined out for us as professional educators do in the next 20 30 years. And there's there's got to be a continuing development. Things we probably don't even know about. So. The problem immediately before us what do we have. What are the problems. And secondly. What is the ideal situation. What ought we to have. In schools of communication. Communications education are in the field of teacher education. Are both that will. Adequately serve this purpose. And thirdly perhaps as suggested last night.
If these are our lacks these are the problems. These are the lacks in the president's State of. Affairs. And this Secondly is the ideal situation. Then what are the practical problems involved in. Revising the curriculum are building curriculum. To. Make it possible. To provide this kind of education. So I think that. That this is where we can stuck. And. I think with the ground rules here we're going to go down the line with the people here who you know represent different areas in different parts of the country different backgrounds and experiences.
And I would think that it might be a good idea if. Any one of the group. That wants to comment on any point displayed as we go down. Will do this. We're going to. Record that. Mr. Ludwick will. Make notes of any significant things that go on and maybe we can come out of this with some kind. Of a statement that will least give us a basis for. Further discussion and some other meetings that we might have to go outside of convention. Center seen by five feet wide. Oh very probably trained here for years.
Over there over 63 percent or 40 forces rather rather startling Yes this is this on a Sunday. Never Incidentally these are general figures I think you will get and I think we get into the various colleges with the University of the faculties there that are involved even partially in the use of fire. I'm not looking at your specific issue it's let's bring them here. You're you're saying that the average age of the person in charge of the broadcasting instructional program is old. No I didn't say that I said the average age of everybody involved from the teachers. Instructors. Through the whole process technician directors managers.
Artists Everybody who are or involved in the everyone who is involved in the educational television. Process for the United States is up in this age bracket 63 percent 44 years of age. Well now we can turn this around and say this is a tribute to the old timers that they are able to adopt the new newer media and they're the ones who are in charge here. Well. I think this is not the point certainly I think you're right it is a compliment to them but I think the idea here is. Not that this is to be deplored so much except that it indicates. That people are still can after all the same for 15 years and continue to fill these jobs. From people. Who
have learned what they know in some other areas some other discipline. There is no training provided for them. Marga nice faces could also mean if we're not hiring the people with the traits that we are promoting from within. Even those a person may not have been specifically trained. Here are your problems. Prepares to hire first week training in another area so that they can master teachers. Even to the extent where they want. Our assistant director. While I know I know what you mean here I. Am not. This may be true I don't know whether it is or whether it isn't but I know that there are some peculiarities of climbing
and every different system and naturally they want or. They want to hire a teacher who is. Pretty well rounded in the field of educational methodology and as well as a subject matter but. Whether this this may be as well as things we need to think about whether this is a necessity. Or not I don't know of course the statement has been made. That. We either have. Broadcasters who know nothing about education or education is to know nothing about broadcasting or what we want here is as American perhaps an educational broadcaster. And if we are having a training program and so we're turning out. For radio disc jockeys. Prototypes or whether we're turning up the television. Would be would be directors of panel shows that this is hardly preparation
for the educational process. I think I can write differently. Some years back I saw that this was the police were like All right some of the people mainly. With a question to them what kind of person they might help us to be sending. Well this is an interesting question the reactions to me were a lot more interesting. We didn't talk a lot of them about. A lot of the production skills that we've been running and blank lines on the way Nigerians feel terrible. One person thought they often or RV was what were you feeling that was just. Another round game for the most you know the least have something back on the law. I had so much to do to see him very very well for that we will
show you a way to eat from the second week of the year and this would lead one to think you can give us a specific unique or about Russia. They were. So this would lead one to think of the general kind of education be the best possible. He couldn't possibly face everybody all the people you are asking for. Well it has a question of what is training for education. Which I will gladly. Well I was reading. Educational writing that is not very. Well. This is I can give you I can give you an answer as rather bald matter of fact I just just finished writing a long report on this particular answer but I think that basically this is what we're here
for. Oh I think yes I think Stan what we've got to do here is to consider educational broadcasting our use of television. All right he opened it in some measure far. For educational purposes let me point out another couple of things to that mike that that might highlight this problem. The largest amount of development of new facilities today. As a matter of fact actually Teddy. Aside from replacement by the commercial stations but I mean new facilities in the field of education noncommercial broadcasting and particular commercial television in the United States as at the present time pretty well hit a plateau. I'm sure that if you talked to.
Commissioner Barkley of the FCC here a few of the other people who feel that. Use the UHF spectrum for commercial purposes is going to lead to a rather up shoot proliferation of facilities that they will tell you this is not so. But I can tell you that Mr. Lay the FCC staff has. Not made as complete a check of these facilities as have been made by other people including eight in the past and I think that they are doing a great deal of disappointment because even with the growth of the country and the increase in gross national product. There is a limited amount of money that can be spent for advertising. This has to be divided up among all the media and so television can only get a certain share of this.
So there's a limit to it and it's costly to operate commercial television and certainly no one's doing it for their health or profit or can't continue to cooperate. The same thing is true in other parts of the world. At present time we have involvement in one man way or another regarding the development of educational television facilities. In about 15 different countries for our purposes. I think maybe with the new year you folks will learn more about. We worked with a couple of manufacturers recently and with. Some other folks over in Japan to. Try to project the amount of educational. Television facilities.
That were the amount of business at work that is potential at the present time. Then we can be seen in a matter of developing your runs into a billion dollars between here and there and. South Asia. That this but I'm trying to say here is that as commercial television. Is operated on for advertising revenue operated by advertising revenue will depend upon the source of income for its its ongoing. Business. Is on the decrease relatively speaking. I mean even where the new facilities are being installed the curve is leveling off while for educational purposes the curve is still very sharp and probably will continue sharp for some time.
Are. There are differences. In use. That have been made very clear to us not only here in the United States but outside of the United States and these areas Ruben. As to the kind of personnel needed even an engineering person. For educational purposes than for commercial purposes. Yes we have been traditionally in our schools of communication our departments of communication our radio television film or whatever we call them to orienting such training as has been given. Toward a commercial field and this market is narrowing compared to what it was 10 years ago certainly and or even five years ago. Are the schools of education has done nothing about it by preparing their site for a while. On the other hand the other thing is the expanding
field this is being like well. It seems it seems to me and to a lot of other people that we have to decide whether or not the schools in colleges or the colleges and universities are going to. To move into this vacuum and to devise some kind of training that will be training for educational broadcasting for the. The use of this facility. For all sorts of educational purposes and these are ranged widely from literacy education in. Backward countries to vocational education and adult education everything in between. It's a very very wide very broad field as it broadens the field of education itself. And I think when we say broadcasting here and I think maybe we will get at the heart
of the problem because. If we consider broadcasting as being a broad field. Because the techniques of. Programming the techniques of production the techniques of present taste. Are ought to be no different. In a studio that sends its programs over a wire or over a microwave are over a twenty five hundred mega cycle. A partial system and it does over partisan broadcast I mean the manner of transmission has absolutely nothing to do with the techniques of production present ation and that sort of thing. Unfortunately this is not clear in a lot of people's minds. Hi everyone. Keep the communication on oh he raised the question as a question. But leisure hours for anyone here who don't
believe in the kind of educational TV broadcaster would like creating the world. No pressure from any recourse. But in England when they're first starting out for use in schools universities as only one knows a thing about not creating life on anywhere. Two training centers and just one seat of the Senate where she was living and most of the. Hammering people and give them a treat. The second is when your old college teacher interviews of people who undergo a freeze tell me where you are each year but the English themselves now are very eager to
keep coming by. People are getting the wrong but they're doing the wrong way. No one knows really put anything together. So just trying to use each example Shimit teach them to respect one. But we've got a notion that a liberal education. The other place. The little education there's just one item much bigger that I think perhaps are the two examples you get a stand rate anything point really that can show the kind of fee for unique event I mean a kind of training that's necessary for the funny kind. The professional commercial broadcasters corporations still. Can't afford the luxury of saying what they need is liberally educated people because people who are who are technically educated in what kind of cameras to buy what the market is there anything up to the account we may or may not have the same
way to educational television. United States I think perhaps we're close to your work. British provide a liberal education is fine and along with a liberal education someone better give me a result. I don't think we can pattern our art.. Look I think there is at least as much difference in writing for a geisha or television or commercial ability. But what kind of context you're going to get workability stoutly on going you know I mean we should go. AS. Neither not the same as the expanding educational building and Glendora schools as a right. Let's not confine ourselves entirely to the producing and it is one of my major problems as a consumer and this I'm not so interested in training teachers who know the difference between a cut and this is all the time
treating teachers who know how to get the most out of a televised lesson. Third to those who are partly trying to get the very least out of a televised lesson to know when to use television and when not to use television. You know what to do when the finger is finally put on them and somebody says I think you'd be a good person to teach that lesson or that chorus or whatever it may be. So we've got a whole range of problems here which we can neatly tied together as educational broadcasts and maybe we need a series out. Of course it's a series of offerings maybe in a well on our campus we have television in both the school of education and in the department of speech. And the two of us from the education who are here and I guess no one from the speech group or whether this is just a local phenomenon campus or honest I have my mission for my budgetary problems rightly communication if really where are you.
Let's let's get these two people over here on this plane I'll know you. Well. America represents a different kind of a situation here she's not from a specific institution of higher learning she is from a group of institutions of higher learning are many. 306 like Sunday spring I can't count. It's close to three men but it is different. If I remove it and Larry writes for it all. So tell us about your attitude as. Well. You said things like you're going to spend some time in what we now paint. I.e. I hold out some notes I had made for it so that was it just about the same time you asked me to come here. I was there to get up for one of the presidents of one of our So the first piece of information about what training was for careers in radio television courses requested come to me direct was pulled down the
hierarchy. So I'm not just sure what the man here in his mind but the implication was pretty strong that he was thinking that his institution ought to be. Not only training course with radio television but specifically for education broadcast. This was sort of interesting that I was asked to let him know what what the readers. And as usual when I get requests like that if you have time to do a real good job I just have to take it to you because you know it's quite interesting morning. I've never been really from London so I could you know right around and survey and this kind of stuff. But I did take the U.S. Office of Education publications about three years old. Did you know about. When to Call it a go and witness the. Curriculum Radio-TV also in the engineering side of radio television and just want to see what we have here sort of try to analyze it. There. There were record reflected in this publication.
Approximately one hundred. Posts to the curriculum and Radio-TV leaving at least to the bachelor's degree with a pretty solid what you call major organized in different ways. Me sometimes in speech sometimes patients but each of them. How you do it. Kinds of courses. Introduction of broadcast to production direction station management announcing news writing you know this was what. There were in addition to this between 15 and 20. Curricula and can be more oriented toward communications theory and art. These are not mutually exclusive but the emphasis was. On. And where they would give things like role broadcasting in society and mass communications and modern problems their communications law you know listed. None of them were specifically preparing apparently for
broadcast education. Approximately 70 institutions are offering at least one course in something called educational radio television education broadcasting a lot of these were summer workshops and not part of the ongoing curriculum during the year. Most of them I say at least 50 out of the hundred or so courses were specifically oriented toward teachers. And there were very very few courses that you could find teachers whose communications it didn't say I think a lot of people in education consumers rather than producers. Yes occasionally producers in the sense of teaching studio teachers how to do this but. There were very few courses that you could spot at least by the titles that seem to be concerned with the whole spectrum of education bookcase and most instructional Djinn.
So pulled around statistics in your book survey and discovered that of the. People now employed covered by years as personnel in educational television in some way and the ones of that group are college graduates. Twelve and a half percent think that radio television correct. Let's remind you so that either the products of our radio television curricula are going to marshal broadcasting or. The products of our radio television curriculum don't care what the education wishes me to. A year and a half ago. For me very concerned at our place about the business of cack weather. Education Television whether you speak tersely train or
to be a teacher. So we went to our dean of education. He said you know it's a problem all these North Shore school systems are putting it closer to television. They don't use it they don't know how to produce for it. We better do something about it. So he set up a committee. And the upshot of the committee was we took the Masters Degree program school education and modified. So it is now possible at our place to get a master's degree in educational television. And I'm not sure at all that it's the best program because we took the existing courses to meet any school education a school education plus of out of the total 36 hours of up to 16 hours and part ready to go. So now we're trying to bridge that gap. It may be an artificial way of rich. But at least we're starting off like I think maybe this is one of the things before we're finished yet this is what the second phase that we are says we ought to really discuss piece to whether this is artificial or whether this is the kind of
of what he needs. You had a comment here on the way home and it was a question very briefly very lightly on this site so you yourself praise the state university you are holding just to show we are. Weak and this next year you know where you are so. At the moment we have absolutely no virtues for the psycho voices. So she questions I'll try to find out why this time it's a question. Why would you think should be included in an undergraduate and graduate program. You know or should we hold that to our second phase because this is the fate we want to talk about if we get some of these problems right.
Fine. Well surely this doesn't this doesn't establish our state of affairs completely enunciate our problem. Oh yeah I think we are to keep one thing in life. That's the rub. Real good educators have training for fellow. From my very brief experience at it. Most people are going to radio television are still looking for the almighty buck. They're not they're not people who are you guys find a certain breed of gay kid first to do educational work to begin with. This still carries over into television. You know this is a series like this to raise the question from the other members of the panel if you might hear. My other kind of visceral feeling that the number
people are coming to radio television curriculum and want to be sports announcers or just got news or stars play as I said we're not ready for the personality just got it. I think the number is decreasing I think we like the stuff. Aren't you kind of seeing what more people are serious about broadcasting as a profession whether it is to be commercially educated or at least that the experience of the right to go along with the other performers of the title is fine and I say good job or. Somebody says a Barnardo's says I think in the corporation on the brain that I am with for this relief much of that sort of what I'm glad to say that these people get out I. Think that we all need a stupid station for this sort of the sort. As an outlet Yes from this is that like going to bed like usual function of cars to station beautiful outlet for all of these people gift to whatever it is that is that let me throw out a
question here in that regard. Is this in. Your experience your feelings a result of your experience an indication that maybe there should be a re-examination of us infantry part. Of standards of participation in this. We know that this is true of the plight of the medical field and some legal field and I wonder whether or not some extra burdensome and this personality calmness. We say some parts of the world is not the result of just poor selection of raw material and do we have a responsibility as a professional trainings to says this.
Throw out one maybe one of the requirements ought to be a bachelor's degree. Wonder whether we might reach the whole level of this five year delay get to the graduate level having undergraduate courses of educational broadcasting or anything that's close to it. I think that's one of the problems we have to consider. I think that course that would probably be very ideal. She I think at least get it here so point by students coming into the curriculum should be by its very plainly about as far as the commercial course stands lower down here and I know of course there are practically every show is take there is only one main line PC so that students looking for commercial television are going to be relegated to a few stations in years at once so you must tell students that if you're lucky or you know many many jobs in the field
marshal just aren't there. Are there already. Yes film is that right. It's becoming more and more art which raises another question should we be a little bit concerned about film technique. We're going to train people for a commercial I think because I think the point with Al races the first one and I think one of the things that we see on our campus that causes more students to come and express and mediators than educational progress but still become sophisticated finds out that of some 700 commercial television stations around the country. 698 of them are doing very little except the 15 minute or at a bar an hour newscast at say on the left at the minute wrap up at 11:00 and of that's it and that being a television director for 98 percent of the television directing profession is a very routine job where you do want to do what you did on Monday and the place where you have opportunities to do new and different things and to break new ground and there are new challenges and evade.
But it never really ends and it's just OK to be a state in the War II program and all of the workers get it leaving closed circuit one week out of the G8 we totaled up by that we have done more like programming and closer Restasis 88 and I'm much closer to 40. Tell us everything we know no other life because the same kind of take. Over Your Life. I'm going on what I was very new in the field of operating my own television station for commercial stations in and to Jase it was spilled over. We did more for the week and all of that together and. This I think is is pretty generally true but I'm not too sure that all the kids going into this thing are given this picture. I got two stories to tell you this point that will maybe point up these very briefly.
One is what happens to say they're not we're not implying educational television and on the other hand we saying other not going out into commercial television jocks I thought up 10 of our students. From the university one time just to see five years ago it happened Big Ten that I worked with very close to and see what they were doing. And at the camp there was only one on the. Professional side I mean the actual station operation production side of tellers. Most of the others had gone into advertising or public relations work and were almost totally removed from the field except occasionally contact and the only one that was really making a great deal of money.
Was selling used cars and telling us this is America another the other story is a story of our development of Samoa. I made a spectacular effort. To get teaching talent and technical talent from every part of the country from all different as I wanted I wanted to get them out of here that would bring all the different ideas together and and see if we if we couldn't maybe develop something new by this cross-party own nation here and one young man I got was from Auburn University and they thought a great deal of it. He was a graduate from a white school and the more established US because of radio and television and.
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Professional Training - Room 8 - Reel 1
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