Writers' Circle Of South Carolina; Betsy Byars

A production of South Carolina. Thank you. Hello from Clemson I'm Pattie just our guest on this program is Betsy Byers who's a writer of books for young people. Six of her novels have been dramatized and presented on national television and her books have been translated into nine languages five of her novels have been name notable books by the American Library Association and in 1971 the summer of the Swans won the Newberry Award as the

most distinguished contribution to literature for children in the year of its publication. Some of her other book titles are crackerjacks and they go Brown's guide to romance and her newest MC mommy is a virus was born in Charlotte North Carolina and attended Furman University and then Queens College in Charlotte where she received her bachelor of arts. She now makes her home in Clemson and we're very pleased to be able to visit with you Ms buyers. Thank you good to have you as a young person. It would have been hard for you to imagine yourself as a writer today. Oh yes when I was growing up. I love bias but I love those problems. If a farmer can put you all's in two days. But then I got to calculus and. I couldn't do it anymore. So I turned to him an English major but she thought at one time that writing would just be very boring. Oh yes I thought you a writer set all by themselves in a room and tight and never got to meet people never got to do anything. And that is what we do we do sit and type

all day. But writing has been a wonderful asset I've met so many people have been so many places that it's been nothing like I imagine you trace your steps for us a little bit I know that you seriously started writing in Illinois. My husband was a graduate student and we lived in a barracks apartment and there was an X on the wall that said in case of fire chop hole in wall and exit and I wouldn't wait for the fire I wanted to go ahead and chop the whole lingo. So I started riding have something to do and to make some money. And that was really my goal didn't want to just write to please myself I wanted to sell what I was writing. And the very first novel that you turned out wasn't a very big success for you. No it was understood. What was it I know it was called clementines got Clementine and it was the story. I was seven short stories I couldn't handle a plot in full plot so it was seven short stories about three characters and it really was not

successful. And then prior to that I guess he started working with them for magazines and newspapers. I wrote for the grocery store magazines and I wrote short the Saturday Evening Post said something called the postscripts page and I wrote for that and look had a look on the light side page and I wrote for both of them. But they always aimed at young people. Now those were go to that I was writing for adults when I wrote those things. But then what happened in the transition to writing for young people. Well any time I would see something that I felt was within my grasp I would try and my children were bringing books and reading them and I was reading to them and I thought I think I could write one of the you know I thought this is not that hard. Actually it turned out to be a lot harder than I expected it to be. I know that you could say that that writing that writers have to go through sort of an apprenticeship. Yes. It's like anything it's like baseball or piano playing that there's a lot of practice involved. And many people think well I can just sit down and write something but there is a period of learning what you can do and how you can do it best.

Well how many books between Clementine and then the Newberry. Did you have to go through. Oh I wrote a lot of books that were not accepted and I look at them now I can see why they were accepted but at the time it was a terrible mystery to me. I thought they were just riffing. I know that you put a lot of yourself into your work. That was one of the hardest things everyone had always said write about what you know. You know put yourself in your writing but that was very hard for me. And and it wasn't until I got to the point where I could do that that I started having some sense this. And what prompted the summer of the Swans your biggest achievement I guess of your career. I was living in West Virginia at the time and they had a program where just ordinary people truck drivers or coal miners or mothers would go into the schools and work with kids that had learning disabilities. And I worked with first grade boy in a third grade girl. And even though the kids I worked with were not Charlie in the summer of the swans.

If I hadn't had that experience and seen what the difficulties they had were not only with learning but with how the kids treated them then I don't think I would ever have written a book. Can you tell us a little of the story and perhaps read something. The story is that Sarah Godfrey has. A younger brother who is has a mental handicap. And she is going through a summer where she is very distraught and unsure of herself and he seems like a burden to her. Do you have something. Agree yes. Charlie is the name of the brother. In the room Charlie lay in bed still kicking his foot against the wall. He was not asleep but was staring up at the ceiling where the shadows were moving. He never went to sleep easily but tonight he had been concerned because a button was missing from his pajamas and sleep was impossible. He had shown the place where the button was to and really when he was ready for bed but she had patted his shoulder and said I'll fix it tomorrow and go back to watching a game show on

television. Look at that and Willie was saying they're never gonna guess the name happened famous celebrities be so stupid. She leaned forward and shouted at the panel is it's Clark Gable then. Having never heard of a person who works in a store a person who works in a store is a clerk. Clark Gable Charlie had touched on the show and tried to show her again the pajamas affix it to Mark Charlie. She waved him away. He'd gone back into the kitchen where Sarah was dying or tennis shoes in the sink. Don't show it to me she said I can't look at anything right now and Mary quit laughing at my tennis shoes. I can't help it they are so gross. Sarah lifted them out of the sink with two spoons. I know they're gross. Only you should have told me that orange tennis shoes could not be dad baby blue. Look at. That that is the worst color you've ever seen in your life admit it I've made it. We don't have to admit it so quickly. They ought to put on the director of that orange cannot be dad baby blue. A warning they do well they ought to put it in big letters. Look at those shoes there must be a terrible name for that color. There is Mary said peeves rock pierced

Mary watch it you made that up. I did not it really is a cult. I have never heard a word that describes anything better. They just look like cute shoes don't they should stay in the newspapers there. Charlie get out of the way please or I'm going to get out all over you. He stepped back still holding his pajama jacket out in front of him. There were times when he could not get anyone's attention no matter what he did. But why do you think that book was so successful I think it was the first time that this had been dealt with in a serious way. And I think also girls can identify with Slayer because they go through that period when they think their their feet are too big and they're too tall and they're too gulping and everything's wrong with talking about writing about what you know. Again this comes from your experience or from your daughter's experience from both. I have three daughters and when they were growing up they were very sensitive. You know they were always saying don't write about me. What are you writing don't put anything about me. But over the course of the years I've used a lot of things that. Said

Well how did you feel at that time when you won that most prestigious award. Oh it was absolutely stunning. The book had not been enormously successful I think it had probably So 5000 copies in the first year and that's not good. And so if anything I was thinking you know I'm a shark. So it was really a wonderful wonderful surprise. And when I went out to Los Angeles for the initial reception someone said to me it's so refreshing to have someone win that nobody ever heard. So that was what it was I was certain that no one had ever heard about what I was. Did that put any pressure on you as a writer to continue on. No it didn't put pressure on it but it absolutely changed my life. You know we had to get a bigger bio box than kids would stand we tell you what they thought of the book and I asking me to send types back. And I got questionnaires all sorts of things. What kinds of questions do kids have for you Are they surprising sometimes. Sometimes they are surprising. Sometimes they just want to know where you got a certain idea that maybe they did something like it and I just want to know you

know if the same thing happened to you. And they always asked me that. Did you ever do this. Did you do that. The bulk of your writing was done in West Virginia. Yes it was. Now what you moved there with another job with your husband. Yes. We moved there in 1960 and all almost all of my books were had West Virginia sitting wherever I am I sort of use the setting and West Virginia and Ohio when that area was sort of the setting that I used in so many of my books where many writers want to admit to having a favorite book. But you do have one called the Midnight Fox which is your favorite. I think it was my favorite because it was the first book I wrote that came out the way I had envisioned you know there's a great gap between what you think you're writing or what you hope you're writing and what you're actually writing and maybe you think it's going to be very exciting and you read it and it's just absolutely flat. But this was the first time the book came out the way I had envisioned and it sort of let me know that I was going to be able to do some of the things that I wanted to do. Is this one the one that you wrote the ending first.

I wrote the first few paragraphs and then I wrote the last few paragraphs and then I did the middle tells that story a bit. It's a very usual story it's been used over and over again and that's true of a lot of books and you just have to give it your own special twist. Tom's parents are going to Europe for a vacation and he is going to have to go to the farm and spend the summer with his goal and he's a. A boy who does not like the outdoors he likes to make models and indoor things. And. I will always at the farm he sees this black fox and he becomes very interested in it. You never. Make friends with that I wouldn't say but he sees it often and he comes to care about a great deal. You have something great. I read that in. This is after Tom is has gone back home and he can't remember. The farm very well and he. It's as if it happened to another boy he

says. But then sometimes at night when the rain is beating against the windows in my room I think about that someone everything is crystal clear. I am once again beside the creek. The air is green and the grass is deep and very green and I look up and see the black fox leaping over the crest of the hill and she is exactly as she was the first time I saw her. Or I am beneath that tree again. The cold rain is beating down upon me and my heart is in my throat and I hear just as plainly as I heard it that August night. Above the writing beyond the years the high clear bar of the midnight Fox. That's what I wrote first. His story comparing the city life in the country life that parallels somewhat some of your early childhood. Well I know because I love the outdoors and I loved animals I was the opposite of Tom in every way. But I think at the time I wrote that there was. They wanted the books in which girls were very strong. And so you didn't want to ever write a book about a girl who had a

feeling about but it was perfectly all right by a boy who was sensitive. That was very popular Probably but as a girl you had an option. You lived in the city and you also had some farm life experience yes. And my father worked for cotton mill and sometimes we lived out by the mill which was rural life. And we had dogs and chickens and all kind of things in the other part of the time I lived in the city. So I really had the best of both worlds. Where's the inspiration for your story it's come from I know you write about computers that I write about this topic. Sometimes it's just someone will say one sentence and I know that's the book. Visiting a friend once and we were getting ready to go out and she says that she had a small swimming pool and she said every time we go out kids come over and swim and I'm terrified someone's going to be hurt and as soon as she said that I thought that my swimmers you know and so sometimes it comes like that and sometimes some of the swans I heard on the radio driving home from town a

report of an old man who was lost in the woods and then I started thinking well I wouldn't want to be you know mining and I want your kid what he jotted down very quickly and stick it in a package that I don't usually I do because you know these things gotta go gotta grab that inspiration. What about the bingo Brown series you have I don't know how many how many are in that seven or eight books. Nobody's may seem like that but I there's only four really. I was just going to be one and then I enjoyed writing those books so much. I was starting to write. I was up on one of the bingo Brown books and I was trying to think of a name for a mana character and then bingo popped into my mind and I thought well I don't want to waste that. And then I kept typing and then I realized how he got his name out there when he was born when he popped into the world the doctor said Bingo. If it lived out his mother would say he would say to his mom she wasn't. He wasn't naming me he said that every time a baby was born you know and I kept typing and then he I realized later he would write in his

diary. Who knows what kind of person I would have become if the doctor had said Richard that his personality was formed. And so I just quit what I was doing and started to go brown and his latest adventure is his guide to romance. Yeah I get a lot of letters from boys and most of the letters. I am exactly like bingo brown except I'm not afraid to hold a girl's hand. How would you write I would know that you have said that you write to your readers not down to them. Oh yes yes. Kids are very sharp. I think this generation of kids is the shopper's generation we've ever had and you know I really feel privileged to be writing them. My procedure of writing is exactly the same although I use the word process. I used to write on a manual typewriter and then I would take it somewhere else and I would edit it and go through it than go back to the typewriter and retire. And that's exactly what I do now except I use the word process

for how many rewrites do you do now. I couldn't even begin to tell tell you because I do each page at least probably a dozen times. Then I stand today and always my editors want changes made and want me to do it over again. My editors what my editor is always looking for are they looking at it from the reader's point of view. Maybe I have skipped ahead they say you know there was a whole day in here of what happened to them that the reader needs to know what is going on. I mean they never go through and say you shouldn't say that or don't do this. In your career you've had what 17 editors. I have had 17 editors. I think people are lucky you work with just one additive because they get to know what you're capable of and so forth. But it also has been good in a way to have a variety of attitudes that a variety of input. How does that impact you having to come to terms with 70 different personalities. Well what I did one book called coast to coast and it took me so long it just took me so long to

get it right that the editor just came in with it you know so I had I think three different editors on that book. Now your newest book is called Mad Money which is a little bit different for you. It was different in that any time you do something different I think it's more fun for you and it's a little bit. Almost all of the books are so realistic and this is a little nonrealistic And so it was fun to do. Do you remember when that idea came to you. I had it for a long time but I didn't think I was going to be able to handle it. And I put it kept putting it off. And what's the story. The story is that most the young boy is plant sitting for a professor or law who is trying to cure the problem of world hunger by growing these enormous vegetables. And as he is to go into the greenhouse and water the plants and nourish them and he notices that there's a huge pod shaped like a mummy in the back of the greenhouse and he's very much frightened of it

and thinks there's something in it that might come out. Can you read something for us. Yes in this section. He has gone to the greenhouse and he's afraid and. His Mosley's model makes dresses for the pageants contests beauty contests and Valvoline is has agreed to is one of the who is modest like a dress ball has agreed to go to the greenhouse with them. So most of the sprinkler systems right here won't take but a minute babbling was beside him. She was even better than bad security because she gave off a sort of perfumed war Barberries want gave off the scent of wet sneakers. Well don't turn it down yet. Mosey froze with his hand halfway to the valve. I want to see the pod. Yes she shouted and grinned a lot of stuff like that. I guess it's being in the greenhouse where I used to come and do crazy stuff in June Yeah. But I want to see this pod. If you're sure where is it that there hold on to me Valvoline urged

Mosey took her own arm as they started down the walking slowly toward the plant. But as he knew how it would feel to be walking down the aisle of a church one day fearful of and yet hopeful for the future the hope the broad it is sad smell like Valvoline. This is it. Yes but I don't see any pod back they are mostly pulled aside the leaves and Valvoline peered in. Well I'll be. She said you know what that reminds me of a mummy. How do you know I was going to say that she turned to Gran over showed it. Is there anything inside. I'm pretty sure there is. Babbling pulled aside some lower leaves and search the ground. I was hoping we'd find one line on the ground you know a little one We could cut it open. I think there's just the one Valvoline shown me she spun around. Her hair flew out brushing Moses begs. I want to listen to it. What I want to get in there listen see if I hear anything. I don't think you should. We're not even supposed to be back here Valvoline if a professor or law should come walking in and he's overdue now wealthy that oh man I saw him on the noon news one time talking

about his wedge to bills. He can't even pronounce a V. He'd probably say my name was well Elaine. She turned to the pliant and wiggled her show's shoulders purposefully. I'm going in. Hold on to me she told Mosey and don't let go no matter what. Has your sense of humor been with you from the very beginning. Yes when in fact that's what started I would read these things sort of funny things on the in the Saturday Evening Post and I would think I think I can do that and I think that's why that is the reason that more people start writing than anything else they look at that something and I realize I could do that and maybe I could write Moby Dick but I could do that. Then the idea of having. Did you pitch that to the editor first started you know I wouldn't you say if you're writing a book about a vegetable Mummy you don't want it but the first title was the green mummy. And then halfway through I thought of making money. And so when I sent it in I blew up the word so it was just mummy graphic

on the front page. But I think her letter said to me what we never know what you're going to cover. We're not sure we're going to be how many books do you think there are in Betsy Byars. Oh I don't know every time I finish one I think that's probably it. And then something else comes to me. So there's no telling you know telling you what about your experience with the after school specials and also the Saturday specials that you've had your books dramatized on television how would they have that come about and when you played. Some of the experiences were pleasant. They did the pinballs with Kristin McNichols and that was quite good. But some of them were absolutely awful. And when you sign over the rights to the book they can do anything they want they can change the title they can change the characters and so the last one I did was the night swimmers and they changed the title of that to dead their mama nail. But I felt this is it. I don't want to do this anymore so that was my last one. What's a little of your life now. I know that you're very interested in

flying and you're retired and living here in Quincy. Oh writing is probably a much smaller part of my life now but when I first started I KIPP school that was when my kids went to school I went to the typewriter and I taught till three o'clock and then I got up and then our days and weeks go by and I don't write and then I will write very concentratedly for a day and a half then so it's completely different. Schedule now and what about how long it takes you for a book like memy what would that take you a year to do in. The first Darius. It probably takes me six months and then I keep working on it you know and I get all kinds of things I'll read the green balloons or something and I'll get something out of that and I'll put it in. So you're always looking for things to enrich your book and that doesn't come quickly. Do you have editorial help from your family. No I don't. I've used to let my kids read my books and I would say to them just read it and turn it over. When you lose interest and they would read one page and turn it up.

Kids aren't real thrilled with their parents or writers about reading what the parents have written. Now you have something called your failure drawer Do you still have that where you put things that don't quite go away. Now I think when I moved I got rid of my failure drawer. But one thing about those values is sometimes there's one little thing in it that you can so you recycle. You know I have recycled values. Has it been beneficial to your career having those books chosen by the American Library Association. Oh yes. Anything that picture a book there are like three or four thousand children's books published a year. And anything that pulls you out of the pack is very beneficial in any and the American Library Association their word. You know post a lot of weight with libraries. Which have the elements that you think you make your books work so well. I think it's a combination of. Realism. I think kids like to see their own world reflected in their books. What kind of shoes they're wearing and what they're doing what movies what shows they're watching.

And I think the humor and I think also they like to feel they like emotional books they like to feel for their characters. Your book crackerjacks and it's an example of how you took an issue of the modern day world spousal abuse and turned it into a story. Yes. And I was I remember I was sitting on an airplane with a man one day and he asked me what I did and I said I wrote children's books and they said what's the name of one I said crackerjacks and he said what's up what's it about. I said wife abuse. He said No I'm serious what is it really about. You know because he grew up in the in the age when children's book tours had to be nice that was the number one requirement. And now anything is possible and feel so lucky that I've had a career that spans You know they started out really one thing said to be nice and now you can do whatever you want. What about some of your other favorites are there any other she'd like to point to like the computer net I was wondering about. Oh I enjoyed the computer nut. I just got my computer and was thinking what if you know someone contacted me on it and my

son is a computer expert. And I said I was talking to him about it and I said that if I did this book I would need some illustrations I said would you do some illustrations I would need a robot and named it what I need he said Oh I don't know I'll think about it. And then he went back in about a month later I got an envelope in the mail and he had done the illustrations in there. I thought well I better get to work on that. So that's one of my favorites because he did do the illustrations and they kind of sparked sparked it along. Are there illustrations in all of your books. Now they aren't. That is the editor's choice sometimes they decide yes and sometimes they decide. And sometimes I'm very pleased with illustrations and sometimes their disappointment. WHAT ABOUT TO THE FUTURE. What's the next project you want to be working on. What I'm working on is I'm hoping to do a series of books about Hercules was a very strong girl and it's sort of a mystery detective series and

what she will best. The world is a great place to work. Yes it is very good well thank you so much for sharing your work with us on this program. Well thank you it's been nice to me. From Clemson I'm Pattie just.