Debate 1988, President, 1st Des Moines Register Presidential Debate; Des Moines Register Presidential Debates; Michael Dukakis, D., and George Bush Sr., R.

Right. This is the scene inside the Omaha Civic Auditorium in Omaha Nebraska. It is here just a few moments from now where Lloyd Bentsen and then choreo will square off in their first and only face to face debate. Good evening I'm Robert MacNeil Welcome to public television's coverage of the Bentsen Quayle debate. Tonight's event is sponsored by the same bipartisan group that sponsored the first Dukakis Bush debate and the rules are identical. The debate will be 90 minutes long and when it's over we'll have political analysis from our regular political commentators. David Gergen and Mark Shields. A look at what was said on domestic policy with former presidential advisor Stuart Eizenstat and Martin Anderson and discussion of foreign policy issues that arise with William Highland editor of Foreign Affairs magazine and William Maynes editor of Foreign Policy magazine. The stakes are high. Each of the two vice presidential candidates is eager to give a boost to his ticket and trade in his

own Senate seat for the vice presidency. Both George Bush and Michael Dukakis will be among the millions expected to watch the televised debate. The latest public opinion polls show the election virtually a dead heat with some voters indicating they view Quayle as a liability to the Republican ticket. Tonight's encounter gives Dan Quayle the opportunity to address those concerns. And it's expected that Senator Benson will be asked about the differences between his views and those of Governor Dukakis. The panel of questioners for tonight's debate comprises Tom Brokaw of NBC News Jon Margolis of the Chicago Tribune and Brit Hume of ABC News. The moderator is the News Hour's own Judy Woodruff. And so we go now to the Omaha civic auditorium and here's Judy. On behalf of the Commission on Presidential Debates I am pleased to welcome you to this

vice presidential debate. I'm Judy Woodruff and frontline. My colleagues on the panel are John Margolis of the Chicago Tribune Tom Brokaw of NBC News and Brit Hume of ABC News. The importance of tonight's debate is underscored by two facts. Both George Bush Michael Dukakis running mate would reveal a lot about themselves and based on the history since World War Two. There is almost a 50/50 chance that one of the two men here tonight will become president of the United States. The candidates senator the Republican nominee and Senator Lloyd Benson. Thank you.

Thank you thank you. For the next 90 minutes we will be questioning the candidates following a format designed and agreed to by representatives of the two campaigns. However there are no restrictions on the questions that my colleagues and I may ask. By prior agreement between the two candidates the first question goes to Senator Quayle. And you have two minutes to respond. Senator you have been criticized as we all know for your decision to stay out of the Vietnam War or your poor academic record. But more troubling are some of the comments that have been made by people in your own party. Just last week former Secretary of State Haig said that your pick was the dumbest call George Bush could have made. Was. Thank you Leader in the Senate Bob Dole said that a better qualified person could have been chosen.

Other Republicans have been far more critical in private. Why do you think that you have not made a more substantial impression on some of these people who have been able to observe you up close. The question goes to whether I'm qualified. To be vice president. And in the case of a tragedy whether I'm qualified to be president qualifications for the office of vice president president or not you must look at accomplishments and you must look at experience. I have more experience than others that have sought the office of vice president. Let's look at qualifications and let's look at the three biggest issues that are going to be confronting America in the next presidency. Those three issues are national security an arms control jobs and education and the federal budget deficit on each one of those issues. I have more experience than does the governor of Massachusetts

and national security in arms control. You have to understand the relationship between a ballistic missile or a warhead throw away what mega tonnage is. You better understand about telemetry and corruption and you better understand that you have to negotiate from a position of strength. These are important issues because we want to have more arms control and arms reductions in the area of jobs and education. I wrote the Job Training Partnership Act. A bipartisan bill a bill that is trained and employed over three million economically disadvantaged youth and adults in this country in the area of the budget federal budget deficit. I have worked eight years on the Senate Budget Committee and I wish that the Congress would give us the line item veto to help deal with that. And of qualifications alone are going to be the issue in this campaign. George Bush has more qualifications than Michael Dukakis and Lloyd Bentsen combined.

Thank you America. I. Said to him. I'm I'm going to interrupt at this point and ask once again to the audience. Your responses as quiet as possible we know that many of you here are for one candidate or another but you are simply taking time away from your candidate. And more and more likely than not you'll be causing partisans for the other candidate to react again on when their candidate speaks out please. Senator Benson you have one minute to respond. This debate tonight is not about the qualifications for the vice presidency. The debate is whether or not Dan Quayle and Lloyd Benson are qualified to be president of the United States. Because Judy just as you have said that has happened too often in the past. And if that tragedy should occur we have to step in there without any margin for error without time for preparation to take over the responsibility for the job in the world. That of

running this great country of ours to take over the awesome responsibility for commanding the nuclear weaponry that this country have. Just. Now the debate tonight is the day a debate about the presidency itself and a presidential decision that has to be made by you. The stakes could not be higher. Senator Benson a question for you and you also have two minutes to respond. What bothers people is not so much your qualifications but your split on policy with Governor Dukakis. He has said that he does not want a clone of himself. But you disagree with him on some major issues aid to the Nicaraguan Contras the death penalty gun control among others. If you had to step into the presidency whose agenda would you pursue yours or his. Delighted to respond to that question because we agree on so many things on the majority of the issues we agree on the fact

that we have to cut this deficit. And Governor Dukakis has been able to cut that deficit 10 budgets a row in the state of Massachusetts while he lowered the tax burden on their people from one of the highest to one of the lower in the United States. That is a major sense of achievement. And I admire that and I'm just delighted to be on the ticket. Governor Dukakis and I agree that we ought to have a trade policy for this country that we've seen in this administration more than double the national debt that they've moved this country from the number one lender nation in the world to the number one debtor nation in the world under their administration that they have not had a trade policy that they've let trade be a handmaid for other foreign policy objectives of the country that this country has exported too many jobs. And not enough product. And as I've worked to pass a trade bill through the United States Senate they throwed through roadblocks in the way every step of the way. But we passed a trade bill that has this promise

that any country that has full access to our markets where entitled to full access to their markets. Now that means that we're going to stand tough for America. And we're going to protect those jobs. I'm going to push American products. And we're going to open up markets around the world. We'll show leadership and that respect and turn this deficit and trade around. That's the sort of thing that Michael Dukakis and I will do to bring about a better America for all of our people. A minute to respond as you notice Senator Benson didn't tell you very much about what Governor Dukakis would do. Governor Dukakis one of the most liberal governors in the United States of America. The one thing he tried to point out about Governor Dukakis is that he's cut taxes. The fact of the matter is Senator Bentsen. He's raised taxes five times. He just raised taxes this last year. And that's why a lot of people refer to him as a tax hike Mike. That's why they refer to the state

of Massachusetts as tax because every time there's a problem. The liberal governor from Massachusetts raises taxes. I don't blame Senator Bentsen for not talking about. Governor Michael Dukakis he's talking more about his record. If I had to defend the liberal policies of government in the caucus I wouldn't talk about it either. John Margolis a question for Senator Benson. Senator as Senator Benson You have claimed that Vice President Bush and the Republicans will raid the Social Security trust fund and you have vowed to protect it. But as chairman of the Senate Finance Committee you must know that there's something to the argument of your fellow Democrat Bob Strauss that some restraint on Social Security growth may be needed or at least some decision to tax most social security benefits as regular income. In fact you once voted for and spoke for a six month delay on cost of living adjustment increases for Social Security. Senator aren't you and Governor Dukakis using this issue politically rather than dealing with it responsibly. Well I must say I hate to disappoint my good friend Bob Strauss but we have a

contract with the American people on Social Security and Social Security is an issue where Senator Quayle voted eight times to cut the benefits on Social Security. That's really where this administration came out and tried to cut the benefits the minimum benefits. Hundred twenty two dollars a month for widows for retirees try to cut the benefits for 62 year old retiree years by 40 percent. Try to do an Enron. On Social Security when they first came in after promising not to cut it. To cut it by some 20 billion. And while we were working to get there. To reform the Social Security system and to be certain that that money was going to be there for people when they retired. At that point they try to 40 billion dollars and run to cut Social Security. Now the record is clear. We saw Vice President Bush fly back from the West Coast. To break a tie in the United States Senate. He doesn't get to vote very often in the Senate. But he made a

special trip to come back and vote against a cost of living increase. Now when you talk about Social Security the people that are going to protect it are the Democrats that brought forth that program. And I think it's very important that we not see these kinds of Enron's by this administration when they talk about the fact that they're going to continue to cut this budget. I know too well what their track record is. And we should be concerned about that kind of an effort once again after the election is over. Senator Quayle your response Senator Bentsen you know that I did not vote to cut. Social Security benefits eight times what I have voted for and what Senator Bentsen has voted for is to delay the cost of living adjustments. Senator Bentsen two times in the United States Senate voted to delay the cost of living adjustments. The government chooses the governor's conference supported a resolution to delay the cost of living adjustment. And John you're right. They use this for political advantage but they try to

do time and time again and again is to scare the old people this country. That's the politics of the past. In 1983 Republicans and Democrats dropped their political swords. And in a bipartisan effort to save the Social Security system Republicans and Democrats banded together because we know that this a program is not a Republican program. It's not a Democrat program it's a program for older Americans. And that program is actually sound to the turn of the century. John a question for Senator Kyl. Senator since coming to the Senate you have voted against environmental protection legislation about two thirds of the time. These include votes against pesticide controls the toxic waste Superfund and health and safety protection from nuclear waste. Senator do you consider yourself an environmentalist. And if you do how do you reconcile that with your voting record. I have a very strong. Record. On the environment. In the United States Senate floor.

I have a record where I voted for the Superfund legislation. I have a record where. I voted against my president on the override of the Clean Water Act. I have voted for the major pieces of environmental legislation that have come down and been voted on in the United States Senate. This administration and I support this administration and its environmental efforts has moved in the area. The first time to deal with the ozone problem we now have an international treaty a treaty that is commonly referred to as the Montreal Treaty for the first time. We're talking about the impact of CO2 the ozone layer. That's progress with the environment. We are committed to the environment. I take my children hiking fishing walking in the woods in the wilderness. Believe me we have a commitment to preserving the environment to bring up the environment. You can't help but think about the environmental policy of the government.

He talks about being environmentalists. Let me tell you about his environmental policy. The Boston Harbor the Boston Harbor which is the dirtiest waterway in America. Tons of raw sewage go in there each and every day. What is a governor of Massachusetts done about that. Virtually nothing. And then he has the audacity to go down to New Jersey and tell the people of Jersey that he's against ocean dumping. This is the same governor that applied for a license to dump Massachusetts sewage waste off the coast of New Jersey. Who has the environmental record. Who has environment. George Bush and I do. Senator Bentsen this late conversion is interesting to me. I must. Be tired. We're talking about Boston Harbor and he says he hasn't done anything. The facts are he has a 6 billion dollar program underway on waste treatment and it was this administration their administration that cut out the money early on

to be able to clean up water and made it impossible to move ahead at that time on Boston Harbor. Where the authors the Democratic Party of clean air clean water of the Superfund. I'm one who played a very major role in passing the Superfund legislation and every environmental organization that I know. Every major one has now endorsed the Dukakis Bentsen ticket and I'm one who has just received the environment an environment award in Texas for the work I've done to clean up the page to clean up the water off the coast of Texas. Now I think we know well who's going to help clean up this environment the record is there the history is there. And Dukakis and Benson will be committed to that. Tom Brokaw a question for Senator Kyl. Thank you Judy. SANDERS Well there's been a lot of talk during the course of this campaign about family was a principal scene as I recall in your acceptance speech in New Orleans. And I'd like to ask you about the 65 million American children who live with their families in poverty. I'd like for you to describe to

the audience the last time that you may have visited with one of those families personally and how you explain to that family your votes against the school breakfast program the school lunch program and the expansion of the child immunization program. The M I have met with those people and I've met with them in Fort Wayne Indiana at a food bank. You may be surprised they didn't ask me those questions on those boats because they were glad that I took time out of my schedule to go down. And to talk about how we're going to get a food bank going and making sure that a food bank goes in Fort Wayne Indiana and I have a very good record and a commitment to the poor. To those that don't have the family want to have a family. This administration and a George Bush Administration will be committed to eradicating poverty.

Poverty hasn't gone up in this administration it hasn't gone down much either and that means that we have a challenge ahead of us. Let me tell you something. What we have done for the poor what we have done for the poor is that we have in fact. The homeless bill the McKinney Act which is a major piece of legislation that deals with almost the Congress has cut the funding that the administration recommended. The poor and the poverty the biggest thing that we have done for poverty in America. Is the tax simplification act. One thousand nine hundred sixty six million working poor families got off. The payroll. 6 million people are off the tax paying payrolls because of that tax reform and they're keeping the tax money there to help the poor. We'll have a commitment to the programs and those programs will go on and we are spending more in poverty programs today than we were in 1901 that is a fact.

The poverty program we are going to concentrate on is creating jobs and opportunities so that everyone will have the opportunities that they want. Senator Benson your response. I find that very interesting because he has been of no help at all when it comes to passing the most major welfare reform bill in the history of our country one where we are working very hard to see that people can get off welfare. Break that cycle. Take a step up in life. Going the kinds of things that we did there to let them have Medicaid for a year. That's a positive thing it's done. What also frustrates me with the kind of court that I've just heard here is the kind of votes that he's cast against child nutrition programs. The fact that he has voted against the money that we needed for further immunization the denial of polio shots to kids where the parents couldn't afford to get that kind of a shot. I don't really believe that is a done of firing with the concerns of people in poverty.

Tom a question for Senator Benson. Like to take it back to the question that Judy asked you about your differences with Michael Dukakis on Contra aid after all the Contra aid is one of the cutting issues of foreign policy of this country in the last eight years. You and Michael Dukakis seem to be diametrically opposed on that. I have been told that in a closed session of the U.S. Senate you made mone one of the most eloquent and statesman like speeches in behalf of contrary that anyone had made in the eight years of the Reagan term that in fact you alluded to the threat the Sandinista regime could pose to your own state of Texas Governor Dukakis on the other hand has described the contrail policy as immoral and illegal. Is he wrong. Governor Dukakis and I. Have disagreed on the contra program. No question about that. But my big difference with this administration is they look at the Contra aid program is the only way to resolve that problem. They concentrate on that. And I really think

we have to give peace a chance. And that's why I've been a strong supporter of the audios plan a plan that won the Nobel Prize for President Hadi as the president of Costa Rica. I believe that you have to work with the leaders of those other Central American countries to try to bring about the democratization of an Iraq by negotiation by pressure by counseling by diplomatic pressure that we ought to be trying that first. But I'm concentrating so much just on the Contras. This administration has not paid enough attention to the rest of Central America. The concern I have is that we have a country with 85 million people sharing a 2000 mile border with us with half of those people under the age of 15. A country that's had its standard of living cut 50 percent in the last six years. Now we ought to be concerned about that and we ought to be involved. I was born and reared on that Mexican border. I speak their language language so I spent a good part of my life down there. Governor Dukakis speaks Spanish

too. He spent a good deal of time in Central and South America. And we believe that we ought to be working together with a new alliance for progress bringing in other countries to help. Bring in the Europeans the Spanish who have a real affinity for that area. Bringing in the Japanese they have a great capital surplus now and looking for places to invest it. Those are the things I think we could do to bring about peace in that area. To help raise that standard of living and give them the kind of stability where democracy can proceed and can prosper and bloom. Those are the kinds of things that we'd be committed to and a Dukakis Benson administration to try to make this world a better place in which to live. Senator Quayle your response. Thank you. There's no doubt in a Dukakis administration that the aid would be cut off to the Democratic resistance in Nicaragua and that is unfortunate. The reason is unfortunate because it is beyond me why it's OK for the Soviet Union to put in

billions of dollars to prop up the communist Sandinistas. But somehow it's wrong for the United States to give a few dollars to the Democratic resistance. There's a thing called the Monroe Doctrine something that the governor of Massachusetts has said has been superseded. I doubt if many Americans agree with that I think they believe in Monroe Doctrine. Senator Bentsen talked about the entire Central America was another issue that Michael Dukakis is wrong on in Central America and that's Grenada. He criticized our rescue mission in Grenada. According to a UPI report criticized that 85 percent of the American people supported our rescue mission and we turned a communist country into a non communist country. The governor of Massachusetts is simply out of step with mainstream America. Bret and Huma question for Senator Bentsen. And. Senator Bentsen. Senator Quayle. I'm sort of the cleanup man in this order and I've been asked by my colleagues to try to deal with them and it's been left on base. Senator I don't have a follow up question for you Senator Kyl but Senator Bennett I first want to ask you a question

about PAC money and I'm sure you're prepared to talk about Governor Dukakis has tried to make ethics a major issue in the campaign and he has you as a running mate a man who leads the league at last count in the receipt of PAC money that being the money raised by these special interest organizations that is a kind of campaign financing which Governor Dukakis finds so distasteful that he has refused to accept any of it. Do you find that embarrassing so I don't know I don't find it embarrassing at all because you have to remember that PAC money is the result of the last campaign reform bill one that talks about employees having greater participation. And what I've done in fact money is just what my opponent and my campaign is in his campaign. He has he's been raising PAC money. So what you have to do is comply with the laws as they are. Whether you're paying taxes or are you plan a football game whether you like those laws or not you comply with them. Now.

I have been for campaign reform and I've pushed it very hard. I believe that we have to do some things in that regard. But I have noticed that the senator from Indiana has opposed that campaign reform and voted repeatedly against it. The things we have to do I believe then we'll cut back on soft money for example which I look on is frankly one of those things that we have had to do because the Republicans have done it for so long. But I think it's a loophole frankly. But campaign reform. Changing the rules of the game is something we tried repeatedly in this session of the Congress. But only you to have the Republicans lead the charge against us and defeat us. And I wish that Senator Quayle would change his mind on that particular piece of legislation and give us the kind of a campaign reform law that I think is needed in America. Senator Quayle your response Senator Bentsen is the number one PAC raiser as a matter of fact. He has to have a $10000 Breakfast Club $10000

Breakfast Club. It only cost high paid lobbyist special interests in Washington to come down and have breakfast with the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee the one that oversees all the tax loopholes in the tax code. $10000. I'm sure they weren't paying to have cornflakes. What kind of campaign reform I'm supporting Senator Bentsen. I think it's time that we get rid of PAC money. Support our legislation where we totally eliminate contributions by special interests and political action committees and let's have the individual contribute and the political parties contribute. That's the kind of campaign reform that Republicans are for. They want to get rid of the special interest money and rely on the individuals and also the political parties. Bret your question for Senator Kyl. Once again let me caution the audience please keep your reactions as quiet as possible. I want to take you back if I can to the question I asked you about some of the apprehensions people may feel

about your being a heartbeat away from the presidency. And let us assume if we can for the sake of this question that you become vice president and the president is incapacitated for one reason or another and you have to take the reins of power when that moment came what would be the first steps that you take and why. First I'd go first I'd say a prayer for myself and for the country that I'm about to lead. And then I would sample his people and talk. And I think this question keeps going back to the qualifications and what kind of a vice president and in this hypothetical situation if I had to assume the responsibilities of a president what I would be. And as I have said age alone although I can tell you after the experience of these last few weeks in the campaign I've added 10 years to my age. Age alone is not the only qualification.

You've got to look at experience and you've got to look at accomplishments and can you make a difference. Have I made a difference in the United States Senate where I've served for eight years. Yes I have. Have I made a difference in the Congress that I've served for 12 years. Yes I have as I said before. Looking at the issue of qualifications I'm delighted that it comes up. Because on the three most important challenges facing America. Arms Control and national security jobs and education and budget deficit. I have more experience and accomplishments than does the governor of Massachusetts. I have been in the Congress and I've worked on these issues. And believe me when you look at arms control and trying to deal with the Soviet Union you cannot come at it from a naive position. You have to understand the Soviet Union. You have to understand how they will respond. Sitting on that Senate Armed Services Committee for eight years has given me the

experience to deal with the Soviet Union and how we can move forward. That is just one of the troubling issues that's going to be facing this nation. And I'm prepared Senator Bentsen. Well I can't leave something on the table that he's charged me with and so let's get to that one. When you talk about the breakfast club as you know that was perfectly legal and I farmed it and I closed it down almost immediately because I thought the perception was bad. But it's the same law. It's the same law. That let you invite. High priced lobbyists down to Williamsburg and bring them down there and entertain them playing golf playing tennis. And bringing Republican senators down there to have exchange for that contributions to their campaign. It's the same kind of law that lets you have honorariums and you collected over a quarter of a million dollars of honorarium is now speaking to various interest groups. And there's no control over what you do with that money you can spend it on anything you want to. You can spend it on a

golf club dues if you want to do that. Now that's what. Actually you do. And this administration and that's why we need campaign reform laws and why I support them. And you in turn have voted against them time and time again. John. Tomorrow it. Was time for Senator Quayle. Senator Quayle in recent years the Reagan administration has scaled back the activities of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration prompted in part by Vice President Bush's taskforce on regulatory relief the budget for the agency has been cut by 20 percent and the number of inspections at manufacturing plants has been reduced by 33 percent. This is not a special effect in this area where many people work in the meat packing industry which has a far higher rate of serious injuries than almost any other injury rate which appears to have been rising although we're not really sure because some of the largest companies have allegedly been falsifying the reports. Would you acknowledge to the hundreds of

injured and maimed people in Nebraska Iowa and elsewhere in the Midwest that in this case deregulation may have gone too far and the government should reassert itself in protecting workers rights. The premise of your question John is that somehow this administration has been lax in enforcement of social regulations and I disagree with that. And I'll tell you why. If you want to ask some businesspeople that I talk to periodically they complain about tough enforcement of this administration. And furthermore let me tell you this for the record when we have found violations in this administration there has not only been tough enforcement but there have been the most severe penalties. The largest penalties in the history of the Department of Labor have been leveled when these violations have been found. There is a commitment and there will always be a commitment to the safety

of our working men and women. They deserve it. And we're committed to them. Now the broader question goes to the whole issue of deregulation and has deregulation worked. Or has deregulation not worked in my judgment deregulation has worked. We have a deregulated economy and we have produced through low taxes high taxes through deregulation. The spirit of entrepreneurship the individual going out and starting a business. The business man or woman willing to go out and risk their investments to start up a business and hire people. We have produced 17 million jobs in this country since 1982 deregulation as a form of political philosophy is a good philosophy. It's one that our partners disagree with. They want a centralized government. But we believe in the market. We believe in the people. And yes there is a role of government and the role of government is to make sure that those safety and health and welfare of the people

is taken care of. And we'll continue to do that. Senator Bentsen. I think you see once again a piece of Democratic legislation that's been passed to try to protect the working men and women of America and then U.S. administration that came and then really didn't have its heart and that kind of an enforcement. Good example of that is the environmental protection laws that we were talking about a moment ago. This administration came in and put in a James Watt. And I'm Gorsuch Now that's the Bonnie and Clyde Brady of environmental protection. And that's why it's important that you have people that truly believe and trying to represent the working men and women of America. Most employers do a good job of that. But some of them put their profits before people. And that's why you have to have Osho. And that's why you have to have tough and good and fair enforcement of it. And that's what a Democratic administration would do to help make this working place a safer

and a better place to be employed. John Margolis another question for Senator Bentsen. Senator Benson since you have been in the in the Senate the government has spent increasing amounts of money in an effort to protect the family farmer the most of the subsidies seem to go do go to the largest and richest farmers who presumably need it least. Well it's the smaller farmers who are often forced to sell out sometimes to their large farmer neighbor who's gotten more subsidies to begin with despite the fact that I believe you sir are a rather large farmer yourself. Do you believe it's time to uncouple the subsidy formula from the amount of land a farmer has. And Target federal money to the small and medium sized farms. Well I've supported. I voted for the 50000 limitation to get away from the million dollar contributions to farmers. You know of the four that are on this ticket I'm the only one that was born and reared on a farm. I'm still involved in farming. So I think I understand their concerns and their problems.

So I feel very strongly that we ought to be doing more for the American farmer. And what we've seen under this administration as a neglect of that farmers. We've seen them drive 200 and 20000 farmers off the farm. They seem to think the answer is move them to town. But we ought not to be doing that. What you have seen them do is cut farm assistance for the rural areas by over 50 percent. We're seeing rural hospitals close all over the country because of this kind of an administration. We say in an administration that is lost much of our market abroad because they have not had a trade policy. We saw our market lost by some 40 percent and that's one of the reasons that we've seen the cost of the farm program which was only about two and a half billion dollars when they took office. Now go to about twenty five billion dollars. Now. We can bring that kind of a cost down and get more to market prices if we'll have a good trade policy. I was in January visiting with Mr. Kushner the new

prime minister of Japan. I said you're paying five times as much for beef as we pay for in our country pay for it in our country six times as much for rights. You have a 60 billion dollar trade surplus with us. You can improve the standard of living of your people. You're spending 27 percent of your disposable income on food. We spend 14 or 15 percent. When you have that kind of a barrier up against us that's not free and fair trade and we don't believe that should continue. We would be pushing very hard to open up those markets and stand up to the American farmer and see that we recapture those foreign markets and I think we can do it with a Dukakis Benson administration kind of an anchor. Each Senator Benson talks about recapturing the foreign markets. I'll tell you one way that we're not going to recapture the foreign markets and that is if in fact we have another Jimmy Carter grain embargo Jimmy.

Jimmy Carter Jimmy Carter great embargo Jimmy Carter great embargo set the American farmer back not the farmers interested in net farm income. Every 1 percent increase in interest rates. A billion dollars out of farmers pocket net farm income increase inflation another billion dollars. Another thing the farmers not interested in that supply management that the Democratic platform talks about. But the governor of Massachusetts he has a farm program he went to the farmers in the Midwest and told him not to grow corn not to grow soybeans but to grow Belgium and dive. That's what his that's what he and his Harvard buddies think of the American farmer. To come in and to tell our farmers not to grow corn not to grow soybeans. That's the kind of foreign policy you'll get under the caucus administration. And what I think the American farmer rightfully will reject. Tom Brokaw question for Senator Benson in advance and you're a businessman before you enter the U.S. Senate let me offer you an inventory if I may. Lower interest

rates lower unemployment lower inflation and arms to deal with an arms control deal with the Soviet Union. Now two guys come to your door at your business and say we'd like you to change without offering a lot of specifics. Why would you accept their deal. You know if you let me write 200 billion dollars worth of checks every year I could give you an illusion of prosperity. Took the oath. This is an administration that has more than doubled the national debt. And they've done that in less than eight years. They have taken this country from the number one lender nation in the world to the number one debtor nation in the world. And the interest on that debt next year on this Reagan-Bush death of our nation is going to be six hundred and forty dollars for every man woman and child in America because of this kind of a credit card mentality. So we go out and we try to sell our securities every week and hope that the foreigners were

bowed by them and they do buy them. But every time they do we lose some of our economic independence for the future. Now they turn around and they have bought 10 percent of the manufacturing base of this country. They bought 20 percent of the banks they own 46 percent of the commercial real estate in Los Angeles. They're buying America on the cheap. Now when we have other countries that can't manage their economy down in Central and South America. We send down the American ambassador we send down the International Monetary Fund and we tell them what they can buy and what they can sell and how to run their economy. The ultimate irony would be to have that happen to us because foreigners finally quit buying our securities. So what we need in this country is someone like Mike Dukakis who gave 10 balanced budgets in a row there. And was able to do that meet that kind of a commitment such those tough priorities were needed the administration will turn this

trade policy around and open up those markets stand tough with our trading partners to help keep the jobs at home and send the products abroad. Well. Senator Benson talks about. Running up the debt. Well the governor of Massachusetts has run up more debt than all the governors in the history of Massachusetts combined. Going back to the days of the pilgrims. I don't believe that that's the kind of policy that we want. The question went to the heart of the matter. You asked the question that why would we change what we have changed since 1980. We've got interest rates down we've got inflation down people are working again. America is held. In respect once again around the world. But we're going to build on that change. And as we made those positive change of lower interest rates lower rate of inflation the governor of Massachusetts fought us every step of the way. We are proud. Of the

record of accomplishment and the opportunities and the hope for millions of Americans hope and opportunity of these Americans. It's because of the policies that we have had for the last eight years and we want to build on that and change it for even the better. Tom a question for Senator Quayle and the qualities you mention here is not you actively supported the invasion of Grenada which was a military operation to rescue some American medical students and to rescue an island from a Marxist takeover. If military force was necessary in that endeavor why not use the military to go after the South American drug cartels and after General Noriega for that matter on a surgical strike since drugs in the minds of most Americans pose a far greater danger to many more people. You're absolutely right you're absolutely right. The drug problem. Is the number one issue. But what you can do as well as the military aspect of it I will address the military aspect if I may respond. The military aspect the drug problem is being addressed as a matter of fact. We are using the Department of Defense in a

coordinated effort. On reconnaissance. But I don't believe that we're going to turn the Department of Defense into a police organization. We are using our military assets in a prudent way to deal with interdiction. And we've made some success in this area. Seventy tons of cocaine and been stopped. But you know when you look at the the drug problem and it is a tremendous problem and there are no easy solutions to it. It's a complicated problem. And he's heading up the effort to try to create a Drug Free America which is a challenge and a goal of all of us. Not only will we utilize. National defense and partner defense we've got to get on the demand side of the ledger. We've got to get to education and education ought to begin at home and it ought to be reinforced reinforced in our schools. And there's another thing that will be more important than the premise of this question on a hypothetical of using troops will use military assets. We're not going to

we will use military assets but we need to focus on another part of this problem and that problem is law enforcement. And here's where we have a major disagreement with the gutter Massachusetts. He is opposed to the death penalty for drug kingpins. We believe people convicted of that crime deserve the death penalty as does the legislation that's in the Congress that is supported by a bipartisan including many Democrats of his party. He also was opposed to mandatory drug sentencing for drug dealers in the state of Massachusetts. You cannot have a war on drugs you cannot be tough on drugs and weak on crime. Senator Bentsen. It's interesting to see that the senator from Indiana and we had a resolution on the floor of the United States Senate sponsored by Senator doe that this government would make no deal but Noriega that the senator from Indiana I was one of the dozen senators that voted against it. It's also interesting to

see how that one of his campaign managers that's trying to help him with his image was also hired by Noriega to help him with his image and pound of tea. What we have seen under this administration we have seen them using eight cabinet officers 28 different agencies all fighting over turf. And that's one thing we'd correct under Dukakis Benson administration we put one person in charge in the war against drugs and we'd commit the resources to get that job done. Now Mike Dukakis has been able to do that type of thing in the state of Massachusetts by cutting the drug use in the high schools while it's going up around the rest of the country by putting in a drug educational program that the Drug Enforcement Agency said was a model for the country. We'd be doing that around the rest of the country. That's a positive attack against drugs. Brit Hume a question for Senator Quayle.

So I want to take you back to the question that I asked you earlier about what would happen if you were to take over an emergency and what you would do first. Why. You said you'd say a prayer and you said something about a meeting. What would you do next. I don't believe that it's. Proper for me to get into the specifics of a hypothetical situation like that. The situation is that if I was called upon to serve as the president of this country or the responsibilities of the president's country would I be capable and qualified to do that. And I've tried to list the qualifications of 12 years in the United States Congress. I have served in the Congress for 12 years. I have served in the Congress and served eight years on the Senate Armed Services Committee. I have traveled a number of times. I've been to Geneva many times

to meet with our negotiators as we were hammering out the IMF trade. I've met with the Western political leaders Margaret Thatcher Chancellor Kohl. I know them. They know me. I know what it takes to lead this country forward. And if that situation arises. Yes I will be prepared and I'll be prepared to lead this country if that happens. Senator Benson the M. Ah. Once again I think. What you are looking at here is someone that could stop and a Protestant see it leveled at the moment if that tragedy would occur. And if that's the case again you have to look at maturity of judgment and you have to look at the experience you have to see what kind of leadership roles that person has played in his

life before that crisis struck. And if you do that type of thing then you arrive at a judgment that I think would be a wise one. And I hope that would mean that you say we're going to vote for Mike Dukakis and Lloyd Bentsen. Bret question for Senator Benson. Senator I want to take you back in my kind of the celebrated Breakfast Club when it was first revealed that you had a plan to have people pay $10000 a plate to have breakfast with you you handled it with disarming not to say charming candor you said it was a mistake and you disbanded it and called the whole idea off and you were widely praised for having handled it deftly. The question I have is if the Washington Post had not broken that story and other media picked up on it what can you tell us tonight as to why we should not believe that you would still be having those breakfast to this day. I must say but I don't make many mistakes but that was a real doozy. And I agree with that. And as you know I immediately disbanded. It was perfectly legal.

And you have all kinds of such clubs on the hill and you know that. But I still believe that the better way to go. Is to have a campaign reform law that takes care of that kind of a situation even though it's legal the perception is bad. So I would push very strong to see that we reform the entire situation. I've worked for that and that's what my friend from Indiana as opposed to repeatedly vote after vote. Senator Quayle. He disbanded the club but he still got the money. He is the number one. He is the number one receiver of political action committee money a senator Benson's talked about reform. Let me tell you about the reform that we're pushing. Let's eliminate political action committees the special interest money. There's legislation for the Congress to do that. That way we won't have to worry about breakfast clubs or who's the number one PAC raiser. We can go back and get the

contributions from the working men and women and individuals of America. We can also strengthen our two party system and need strengthening and relying more on the political parties and we have in the past. That's the kind of campaign reform that I'm for and I hope the senator will join me. John Margolis a question for Senator Bentsen. Senator we've all just finished most America has just finished one of the hottest summers I can remember. And apparently this year will be the fifth out of the last nine that are among the hottest on record. No one knows but most scientists think that something we're doing human beings are doing are exacerbating this problem and that this could in a couple of generations threaten our descendants comfort and health and perhaps even their existence as vice president. What would you urge our government to do to deal with this problem. And specifically as a Texan could you support a substantial reduction in the use of fossil fuels which might be necessary down the road.

Well I think what you can do in that one and which would be very helpful. Is to use a lot more natural gas which forms a lot cleaner. And what Mike Dukakis is sad is that he'll try to break down those regulatory roadblocks that you have in the regulatory agency that denies much of the passage of that natural gas to the northeast where you can in turn can fight against acid rain which is another threat because it's sterilizing our lakes it's killing our fish. And it's interesting to me to see the resume of Senator Quayle. That he brags on the fact that he's been able to fight the acid rain legislation. I don't think that that's a proper objective in trying to clean up this environment. But the greenhouse effect is one that has to be a threat to all of us. And we have to look for alternative sources of fuel. And I've supported that very strongly. The Department of Energy is one that has cut back substantially on the study of those alternatives sources a few we can use all the things that will help the farmer. We can convert corn

to ethanol. And I would push for that. Very strong so absolutely. Do those things that are necessary to put the environment of our country number one. Because if we don't protect that. We'll destroy the future of our children and we must be committed to trying to clean up the water clean up the air and do everything we can not only from a research standpoint but also in the applied legislation to see that that's carried out. Senator Quayle Vice President George Bush has said. That he will take on the environmental problem. He said further that he will deal with the acid rain legislation and reduce millions of tons to content that legislation won't get through the Congress this year but it will get through in a George Bush Administration a George Bush Administration that is committed

to the environment and the greenhouse effect. Is an important environmental issue is important for us to get the data and see what alternatives we might have to the fossil fuels and make sure that we're know what we're doing. And there are some. Explorations and things that we can consider in this area. The drought highlighted the problem that we have. And therefore we need to get on with it. You know George Bush Administration You can bet that we will. John a question for Senator Quayle. Senator as vice president your most important contribution would be the advice you gave the president. One of the most troubling facts that's going to face the new administration is the fact that the United States has now become the world's largest debtor nation in one thousand eighty seven foreigners underwrote our debts to the tune of about one hundred thirty eight billion dollars. Last week a top official of the Japanese economic planning agency bragged that Japan was in a position to

influence the value of the dollar. Our interest rates and even our stock prices and he warned that one day maybe they do just that. If you were vice president of the United States and Japan did that what would you tell the president to do. When you look at dealing with this total problem it's not just with the Japanese but the underlying question on this total world debt problem. You have got to see why are we a debtor and what is attracting foreign investment into our country today whether it's Japanese or others. I would rather have people come over here and to make investments in this country rather than going elsewhere. But because by coming over here and making investments in this country we are seeing jobs. Do you realize that today

we are producing Hondas and exporting Hondas to Japan. We are the envy of the world. The United States. Some of Senator Benson supporters laugh at that. They laugh at that because they don't believe that the United States of America. Is the in the of the world. Well I can tell you the American people think the United States of America is the envy of the world. I am. Ah Senator Ensign. Oh I'm sorry go we are. The greatest nation in this world and the greatest economic power. Now there's been some talk in Congress about forgiveness of debt forgiveness of debt is wrong. Forgiveness of international debt would be counterproductive and I'd like to see those that talk about forgiving debt Senator

Benson go out and talk about. The farmer that some debt that doesn't have his forgive given. That's not the kind of policy George Bush will have. Senator Bentsen. Well I've told you what I do about trade. I'm trying to help turn that situation around. But what we also should do is get them to give us more burden sharing when it comes to national defense. We have a situation today where on a per capita basis people in Western Europe are spending about one third as much as we are in our country. And then when you go to Japan where we're spending 16 1/2 percent on defense of the democracies they're spending 1 percent. I met with some of the Japanese business leaders talking to them about it. And I said you know we have 50000 troops here in Japan protecting the democracies of Asia. It cost three and a half billion dollars a year. You're the number two economic power in the world. You ought to measure up to that responsibility and carry some of that cost. I said if we were not doing what we're doing we'd have a big

budget surplus. And I said you'd have chaos because you get 55 percent a year off from the Persian Gulf and you wouldn't have the U.S. Navy down there to take care of that. Now the senator from Indiana when we passed a resolution in the United States Senate to ask for burden sharing on that cost to keep those sea lanes open from the Japanese. He voted against that. I don't understand that. Tom Brokaw a question for Senator Quayle and a quote I'm going to beat this drum until it has no more sound left in it but to follow up on Brit Hume's question when you said that it was a hypothetical situation. It is after all the reason that we're here tonight. Because you are running not just for Vice President Taha. And if you cite the experience that you had in Congress surely you must have some plan in mind about what you would do if it fell to you to become president of the United States as it has to so many vice presidents. Just in the last 25 years or so. Let me try to answer the question one more time I think this is the fourth time that I have had this question. I don't think that three times I've had this question and I'll try to answer it again for you

as clearly as I can because the question you're asking. Is what kind of qualifications does Dan Quayle have to be president. What kind of qualifications do I have and what would I do in this kind of a situation and what would I do in this situation. I would make sure. That the people in the cabinet and the people in the advisers to the president are called in to talk to him. And I'll work with them and I will know them on a firsthand basis because as vice president I'll sit on the National Security Council and I'll know him on a firsthand basis because I'm going to be coordinating the drug effort on norm on a firsthand basis because Vice President George Bush is going to recreate the Space Council and I'll be in charge of that. I will have day to day activities with all the people in government. And then if that unfortunate situation happens if that situation which would be very tragic happens I will be prepared

to carry out the responsibilities of the presidency of the United States of America. And I will be prepared to do that. I will be prepared not only because of my service in the Congress but because of my ability to communicate and to lead. It is not just age its accomplishments it's experience. I have. Far more. Experience than many others that sought the office of vice president this country. I have as much spirits in the Congress as Jack Kennedy did when he sought. The presidency. I will be prepared to deal with the people in the Bush administration if that unfortunate of them would ever occur. Senator Bentsen. Senator. I served with Jack Kennedy I knew Jack Kennedy.